The Challenge Challenge!

[J. M. Pescado]

Why should tinkering be banned? That's how *I* learned *MY* mechanical skills. I messed with stuff until it broke! Destroying household furniture is no more wrong than cleaning things is for cleaning points. Besides, you don't need tinkering to break an item. If you want to destroy an object, just hit "use" repeatedly until it breaks. Items are damaged per-use, and break per-use, not based on how heavily used they are. Which is why computers break when you simply step away from them, not when you turn them off, like real computers.

[simsfreq]

I know you don't need it, I just thought from the earlier comments that it would make it easier or quicker to break things than just using them all the time. If that's not the case, there is no real need to ban it.

[sloppyhousewife]

I had forgotten that too - yes, why not. Although perhaps I ought to change the rules about seasons so every season has to appear once so that you can't grow eggplants all year round - or the rest of the fruits/veggies.

Ban eggplants completely, or it gets ridiculously easy. It's no problem whatsoever to gain a silver gardening badge and raise enough eggplants to max all skills within two seasons. Who needs community lots? Befriend every idiot strolling by. If there's not enough walkbys, have blind dates, order grocery, pizza etc. Find a suitable job. Reach top of career. End of story.

It's just not interesting to just reach the top of a career. Even without eggplant juice, it's no challenge, just tedious.

[J. M. Pescado]

Eggplants can be grown all year regardless of reasons. Winter makes it slightly less friendly if they are exposed to actual snow, but it becomes a nonissue if they're grown in a basement with lamps or in a greenhouse. Still, eggplantery is normally the slow-boat-to-nowhere approach of skillgaining. 2 Seasons (10D) to max all skills? Normally, SLOOOOOW.

[sloppyhousewife]

Oh yes, it IS slow. But still faster than building logic skills with only crosswords or cleaning skills by mopping puddles. You could of course avoid jobs that require logic or cleaning, in which case you could reach the top of the career before the harvest, if you're lucky with the working days/hours.

By the way - what about charisma? Is there a way to gain charisma skill points without a "skill building" object? Quite obviously, mirrors are banned, too.

[simsfreq]

Not by using any kind of object, there isn't. 

I don't use eggplants ususally, I didn't realise the skill increase was that much.

[cenoura]

Not by using any kind of object, there isn't. 

Aspiration rewards and career rewards are banned. Dates give cleaning points. There aren't social interactions that give charisma, are there? I think schmooze is based on number of skill points already gained, and doesn't give a chance of adding them? I'm at a loss as to what you're referring to, especially as you don't BV (vacation bonuses upon returning?).

[Ellatrue]

I don't know if it is normally possible for a pregnant sim to go to work. The carpool just doesn't show.

[J. M. Pescado]

You kinda have to use your own cars. Stupid EAxis and their dumb idea that some fat cow should just lie there being bloated in my sight all day. BEGONE! Also, moar Ellatrue torture in next Awesomeland. Show up and contribute to the plot! Or I'll throw you in a vat of boiling sharks.

[Zazazu]

Boiling sharks? 

[simsfreq]

Much of this challenge depends on chance. Does that help?

[Kyna]

Oh yes, it IS slow. But still faster than building logic skills with only crosswords or cleaning skills by mopping puddles. You could of course avoid jobs that require logic or cleaning, in which case you could reach the top of the career before the harvest, if you're lucky with the working days/hours.

By the way - what about charisma? Is there a way to gain charisma skill points without a "skill building" object? Quite obviously, mirrors are banned, too.

I tend to ignore that I have Pets installed (apart from the nifty floor dividers), but isn't it possible to train charisma by talking to one of the caged pets?  Is a caged pet a skill building object?

[Jack Rudd]

Talking to caged birds gives charisma, yes.

Digging for treasure and then filling in the holes gives you cleaning points.

[sloppyhousewife]

I don't use eggplants ususally, I didn't realise the skill increase was that much.

It is - one eggplant juice gives you one random skill point, no matter how high the target skill is.

One question about the retiring thing: Do we actually have to wait until the sim becomes an elder?

[Jelenedra]

Gaining cleaning skills: Tinker with shower until it breaks, then mop up puddles for hours.

[Aggie]

One question about the retiring thing: Do we actually have to wait until the sim becomes an elder?

Yes.

[Count Four]

Gaining cleaning skills: Tinker with shower until it breaks, then mop up puddles for hours.

Also, non-FT strategy: Make sim zero-neat-points, add cheap shower, mop up puddles for hours.

[sloppyhousewife]

One question about the retiring thing: Do we actually have to wait until the sim becomes an elder?

Yes.

Heh. I know that you can only retire as an elder. I've just been wondering how it adds to the challenge if you have to wait until elderhood before ending the challenge (in case you reach the top of the career while still an adult, that is). The goal is "Reach the top of a career", after all.

Skill points:
Move the sim into an empty lot, and build/buy/furnish the house however you like except you cannot buy or make, at any point:
Anything which can be used to build skills

Perhaps you should add "receive as a gift" to the bold part, or add a rule that the challenge sim must not be invited by another household ever. Otherwise, you have a big, fat loophole.

[simsfreq]

Yeah, I suppose there is no need to make them be an elder by the end of the challenge, it just prolongs it if you managed to get to the top before you got to elder. Instead I could always add a time bonus: 1 point for each day left until age transition (and ageing would have to be turned on, evidently.)

sloppyhousewife: (For the part about recieving objects as gifts etc.)
I think your suggestion makes sense. I haven't played with nightlife very long so I forgot about date/outing rewards etc. So any rewards recieved should be sold immediately.
ETA: Just realised you meant give as a gift, which means the inviting part makes sense now, too. So I should add to that list "be given as a gift" since you could play another family, hang around on a community lot, and wait for your challenge sim to show up (or show up as a walkby) and give him or her the gift that way without inviting them over.

Right, so eggplant juice should be banned. Caged birds should really be classed as a skill building object, even though they are not an object as such.

Ellatrue:
You could also only time woohoo so that your pregnant sim has their normal "weekend" as their maternity leave so they don't incur any penalties. However, having children isn't a requirement, more a points bonus as they make the challenge harder.

The thing I was hinting at earlier is that it's possible to gain skills by random chance card outcomes. It is also possible to be promoted by chance card even if you do not have the required skills or friends.

The community lot restriction was not intended to make it difficult to meet people, more to stop the time machine effect.

If this post sounds arsey, it's not meant to, I am about to fall asleep.

[Jack Rudd]

How about pulling strings? Find a sim who's high-level in your sim's chosen career, and have a date with them. That could get you a fair few promotions.

[sloppyhousewife]

ETA: Just realised you meant give as a gift, which means the inviting part makes sense now, too. So I should add to that list "be given as a gift" since you could play another family, hang around on a community lot, and wait for your challenge sim to show up (or show up as a walkby) and give him or her the gift that way without inviting them over.

Yep, that's what I meant - or just invite the challenge sim over and stuff his/her inventory with skill building items.

One question about the computer and stereo exception: Does it mean that the challenge sim is actually allowed to build skills with them, or that s/he may *have* them, but not use them to gain creativity/body points?

[simsfreq]

Yes, they are allowed to build skills with them.

Pulling strings? I thought that was a myth? Although judging by the effect of sleeping with your professor in Uni... I wouldn't put it past them.

[Jelenedra]

A promotion by getting strings pulled has happened to me ONCE, but then, I don't do many outings, and my sims don't usually date people in the same career as them soo....

[Jack Rudd]

I see that skill-building objects are banned, but what about skill-building build mode stuff? Specifically, swimming pools.

[skoop]

How can you build charisma without skill building objects or caged pets?