The Challenge Challenge!

[SaraMK]

What about acquaintances that are forced on you - school friends for example, or the burglar? Perhaps you could bypass the latter by just not installing a security system, but bringing friends from school is a random event you cannot avoid unless you use hacks (which would be cheating). You would lose a point for something that's out of your control. Perhaps "Met X" could be regarded as a "neutral" memory?

Chalk it up to terrible luck. Life happens. You are not guaranteed a perfect game where nothing goes wrong to ruin your score, you know.

Look at it this way: if you CHOOSE to go to school or work, in the hopes of picking up a red memory from it (why else would you do it?), then you can't complain when your plan is thwarted and you get a green memory instead.

Plus, there are work-arounds for both school and work, so nothing is requiring you to attend either one. I'm not going to make a rule about something that a player can already avoid. For example, to prevent a child from bringing home another child, you could just not have any other children in the neighborhood. If you choose to have children in the neighborhood, I say that's you taking a chance that your score will get messed up.

Burglar is, again, a random bad luck thing. However, that's a good point that a perfectly good red memory is being wasted. I'll add in a stipulation that a "met burglar" memory does not lose a point.

The whole point of the challenge is trying to avoid green memories while racking up red ones. Why would we want to make some memories void just because they're more difficult to avoid?

[Charamei]

The Genetic Legacy Challenge

Problem: Challenge is not deterministically scored, as scoring rules are undefined because your target is undefined.

Hmm, true. How about a simple pass/fail, would that work better? Not as if points-farming is really an option here anyway

[sloppyhousewife]

Plus, there are work-arounds for both school and work, so nothing is requiring you to attend either one.

There is a way to avoid attending school? Work is a no-no anyway, as finding a job is a green memory.

Why would we want to make some memories void just because they're more difficult to avoid?

I thought that some memories aren't difficult, but impossible to avoid, like the school friends thing. But as you pointed out, it's easy by just not having children in the hood (I never use clean templates, so I didn't think of that). My bad.

Of course you can't get all red memories without getting green ones before (you cannot be fired without having a job first), I've just been wondering whether the challenge can be done without one single green memory.

[J. M. Pescado]

Plus, there are work-arounds for both school and work, so nothing is requiring you to attend either one.

Work is a net gain, as you can both be demoted and fired, which is 2 red memories for a green one. However, you must not be promoted, and must not actually earn money, as earning money is green.

[dizzy]

Since I know everyone loves Uni I think a dorm challenge is in order. Hopefully, the scoring keeps this from being too trivial:

EDIT: Added C4 and C5.

The Dorm Challenge
---

Procedure:

1) Create a student at Uni in CAS.
2) Put the student in a dorm.
3) Make the student acquire skills.

Restrictions:

A1) Only three semesters permitted (includes those spent on probation).
A2) The Uni clock must not be stopped (except to save or buy/build).
A3) The student must stay at the dorm (except to go to class).

B1) No aspiration rewards except those earned by the student.
B2) No career rewards.
B3) No using hacks/cheats to acquire skills, higher IQ or class performance.
B4) No dragging the mouse on the skill UI.
B5) No using hacks/cheats for mood or aspiration.
B6) No dragging the mouse on the needs UI.

C1) The student is not allowed to become a vampire or plantsim.
C2) If playing with Seasons, every season must be set to Spring.
C3) No snapdragons, no fruits/vegetables, and no vacation benefits.
C4) No dating.
C5) The student is not allowed to become a werewolf.

Scoring:

1) +1 for each skill point acquired
2) +5 for each skill maxed
3) +5 for each appearance on the "Dean's List"

[J. M. Pescado]

So, maximize All Skills and Keep a 4.0 In 3 Semesters. No problem. I notice you did not outlaw werewolves. Intentional or oversight? It's not even possible for a YA to become a plantsim.

[Giggy]

Add in
"No influence" and you've created an impossible challenge

[Zazazu]

Not really. The kicker is no sim-vac and no dates.

[Jelenedra]

That's not too hard. With the influence options, you can make people do your homework and term paper until your edumacation bar is full. Then, it's all skilling from there.

[dizzy]

Heh. Talk is cheap. Try beating my test run of 62, then you can say whether it's easy. 

[Jelenedra]

So, lemme clarify: Three semesters = first half of sophmore year or Three semesters = End of junior year.

[dizzy]

Three semesters is a year and a half (i.e. till the middle of the sophomore year).

[Jelenedra]

Ouch. *laughs*

[J. M. Pescado]

Heh. Talk is cheap. Try beating my test run of 62, then you can say whether it's easy. 

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. You call that a test run, I call that STANDARD PLAY. So that'd be +70 for 70 skillpoints, +35 for 7 skills maxed, and +3 for 3 Dean's Lists, total 108. This is the STANDARD score! Accept no Kewian-based substitutes!

Not really. The kicker is no sim-vac and no dates.

There does not appear to be a rule outlawing either. Aspiration rewards must be earned, and you can't play your sim out of the dorm, but dates are entirely legal, not that you'll have time for that, and Simvac isn't outlawed, but you have to earn it. Still, there are plenty of options. In fact, for the ultimate time cram, you will want to utilize both dates AND the Simvac: Farm dates for ASP to buy SimVacs to drain the expensive high-end skillpoints. Crack that whip! Even if vampirism were legal, it would be counterproductive, anyway. A vampire gets maybe 12-13 productive hours in a day, compared to the baseline of about 16-18 for a regular sim. It's WEREWOLVES that's where the action is: A werewolf has maybe 20-21 productive hours per day, as their energy bar receives a full refresh at 2000, and dorms provide free food to refuel their tanks, and bonus slobbiness to enhance the speed at which they inhale food.

[Zazazu]

Heh. Talk is cheap. Try beating my test run of 62, then you can say whether it's easy. 

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. You call that a test run, I call that STANDARD PLAY. So that'd be +70 for 70 skillpoints, +35 for 7 skills maxed, and +3 for 3 Dean's Lists, total 108. This is the STANDARD score! Accept no Kewian-based substitutes!

Not really. The kicker is no sim-vac and no dates.

There does not appear to be a rule outlawing either. Aspiration rewards must be earned, and you can't play your sim out of the dorm, but dates are entirely legal, not that you'll have time for that, and Simvac isn't outlawed, but you have to earn it. Still, there are plenty of options. In fact, for the ultimate time cram, you will want to utilize both dates AND the Simvac: Farm dates for ASP to buy SimVacs to drain the expensive high-end skillpoints. Crack that whip!

That's what I meant. Removing the option for influence, sim-vac, and dates would make it quite hard. I wouldn't even use influence. I'd make a knowledge sim. First things first, chat up a likely mate and date to enough points for a sim vac and a skilling cap. Use the skilling cap to get your first five or so points in each skill. Then vac the rest. Date, then use the mood boost to do your term paper and an assignment. Very doable.

I have to change the clothing of all the sims at Prospect University since I finally got those things done, so maybe I'll try this. Should be quick.

[dizzy]

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. You call that a test run, I call that STANDARD PLAY. So that'd be +70 for 70 skillpoints, +35 for 7 skills maxed, and +3 for 3 Dean's Lists, total 108.

+70 for all SP, +35 for maxed SP, +15 (+5 for each Dean's List) = 120 points absolute max.

Now that I think about it, I really should include rules to exclude the unfair advantages from NL and Pets.

[Ellatrue]

Can I submit a pre-existing challenge?

[Jack Rudd]

Can I submit the Challenge Challenge?

[Ellatrue]

I was talking about submitting a challenge of MINE, asshat.

[EsotericPolarBear]

The House of the Future Challenge
requires OFB


Rules:

-Start with a fresh CAS adult sim. No uni-upgrade.  This is your challenge sim.
-You can only marry/ask-to-move-in NPCs.  No marrying rich sims.
-No leaving the lot. (unless you're moving to a bigger lot for a bigger house..but no going downtown, shopping district, vacation, etc..time marches on)
-Only the challenge sim may be employed.
-You may have an in-home business, but only the challenge sim is allowed to run/work/whatever it, although you can hire employees.  (exception: once the servo is created, he/she may help with the business)
-NO BUSINESS RUNS YOU (I know, I love it, too...but it'd make this too easy)
-No off-site businesses
-No selling crafted or grown items unless products are sold via business. (no selling via pie or buy catalog)
-No painting.  This adds to house worth without spending.
-No bandatrons. No business or gardening macros.  You have to earn your living.  Power Idle is acceptable.
-No custom content
-No money cheats.
-No artificial prolonging of challenge sim's life. (no vamps, no elixirs, no zombies etc)



Requirements:

-Must have at least one of each utility robot and a Servo.  This is the house of the future, afterall.
-no more than one of each utility robot per floor.
-no more than one servo.
-The house must be aesthetically pleasing.  (No floor full of plasma TVs or other such silliness)

Challenge ends when challenge sim dies

House worth is found by the difference in funds during gameplay and family worth on the neighborhood screen (if there's an easier way to find it, lemme know!)

Scoring:

-1 for each day that passes.
-1 for every 5 identical items (not counting recolors of paintings and such)
-1 for each utility robot above maximum (overkill is bad)
-5 for each class of utility robot not in house at end of challenge
-5 for each additional servo (no slavery!  Robots have rights, too!)
-10 for no servo at end of challenge
+1 for every $5,000 in house worth
+5 for each utility robot (below maximum)
+10 for Servo

Breaking the rules is automatic failure.  Ugly houses will be mocked.

[J. M. Pescado]

-NO BUSINESS RUNS YOU (I know, I love it, too...but it'd make this too easy)
-No bandatrons. No business or gardening macros.  You have to earn your living.  Power Idle is acceptable.

It sounds like you've misunderstood what business macros do. They don't do anything "for" you. Your sim still has to do it, it just means you don't break your mouse repeatedly clicking on him to do it.

-No single item in the house can cost more than $50,000.

There's no such item in the game, 32767 is the maximum price on an item as dictated by 16-bit integers.

So, your challenge requires that I have a kajillion pieces of $32767 one-tile CC junk, and fill the house with 32767 objects, choking the life from my computer to achieve maximum physically possible house worth. I'm going to disqualify you on the grounds that this is not playable, since maximum score requires that you utterly choke the life from your computer.

[EsotericPolarBear]

It sounds like you've misunderstood what business macros do. They don't do anything "for" you. Your sim still has to do it, it just means you don't break your mouse repeatedly clicking on him to do it.

No, no...I mean you, the player has to do it.  Where's the challenge in sipping tea while your sim macros the money?  If it wasn't that it'd make it ridiculously impossible, I'd ban careers, too.

There's no such item in the game, 32767 is the maximum price on an item as dictated by 16-bit integers.

Eh, I didn't know what the most expensive item was, I just guessed.  Basically, I didn't want anyone putting down one or two items and maxing the score.

So, your challenge requires that I have a kajillion pieces of $32767 one-tile CC junk, and fill the house with 32767 objects, choking the life from my computer to achieve maximum physically possible house worth. I'm going to disqualify you on the grounds that this is not playable, since maximum score requires that you utterly choke the life from your computer.

So ban CC and get rid of the silly, facetious 1 million dollar score...?  I really don't expect anyone to be able to achieve the ultimate maximum score without cheating.

[J. M. Pescado]

No, no...I mean you, the player has to do it.  Where's the challenge in sipping tea while your sim macros the money?  If it wasn't that it'd make it ridiculously impossible, I'd ban careers, too.

Except that doesn't change anything. Since I wrote the macros because I already solved the problem.

So ban CC and get rid of the silly, facetious 1 million dollar score...?  I really don't expect anyone to be able to achieve the ultimate maximum score without cheating.

That just changes the maximum score to the highest-tile-density object, since there is an indefinite yield per $5000. Therefore, you just stack that score until the game crashes.

[EsotericPolarBear]

Except that doesn't change anything. Since I wrote the macros because I already solved the problem.

without forcing the player to play, there's not really a challenge...it just becomes a game of wait for money and spend it on stuff.

That just changes the maximum score to the highest-tile-density object, since there is an indefinite yield per $5000. Therefore, you just stack that score until the game crashes.

See, the problem I'm having is quantifying aesthetics.  Yes, according to the rules, you could stack identical items ad infinitum taking a -1 for every 5 items, but a +1 for every 5k....  But where's the fun and creativity in that?  So how do I make a scoring system that rewards artistic expression?


Fine, my challenge is dumb.  I give up.   

[J. M. Pescado]

without forcing the player to play, there's not really a challenge...it just becomes a game of wait for money and spend it on stuff.

It is pointless to create a "challenge" that simply involves the player repeatedly performing the same grind. If the procedure can be committed to a script, that aspect of the challenge has moved to a higher level. Since the script performs the exact same actions the player would, there is no point in forcing the player to do it manually.

See, the problem I'm having is quantifying aesthetics.  Yes, according to the rules, you could stack identical items ad infinitum taking a -1 for every 5 items, but a +1 for every 5k....  But where's the fun and creativity in that?  So how do I make a scoring system that rewards artistic expression?

You can't. Aesthetics is a matter of opinion and cannot be quantified. You can penalize stacking "identical" items, but it still turns into a simple hodgepodge quest to assemble the most junk. And honestly, you wouldn't even do it until scoring time, or else you'd lose money and lag the crap out of your computer when you flood it with 30000 objects for points.

Fine, my challenge is dumb.  I give up.   

Yes, this is true. Your challenge is dumb, just like you.