Survey on VS

[laeshanin]

Motoki, that's appalling, but it would seem to be a fair (if harsh) assessment of what is going on. Very, very sad.

[dizzy]

Maybe I should clear something up, here.

I am a "forum owner" at VS. If I suddenly decide to quit being a forum owner, my forums are going to be deleted unless they institute some kind of archive at some point. This is something that hasn't really been kicked around in any public forum yet, but I have a feeling it's going to get mentioned eventually.

You can't drop your forums and expect to leave a goodbye message in them. That's just not how it's handled.

The problem is that people are confused about all this and can be quite irate about it when the forums disappear. This whole thing was very sudden for everybody, especially the admins who literally knew nothing about what Witch was intending to do until yesterday.

[cabelle]

You can't drop your forums and expect to leave a goodbye message in them. That's just not how it's handled.

I can see what you're saying, but it's a shame that a little more understanding couldn't have been given to Witch in light of that awful, ugly fight thread and the inefficient way it was handled. After that appalling thread it shouldn't have been completely unexpected that some would want to leave as quickly as possible. And that they may feel uncomfortable discussing it with the site owners first if their (meaning the site owners) behavior is coming across as somewhat inconsistent and possibly untrustworthy.

I apologize if I'm completely off base. I can personally identify with why Witch left and how. All I know is that when I'm around people who act like they did, with a "scorched earth" mentality to win their argument, I want to get away from them as quickly as possible.

This is just my garbled $.02 for what it's worth. I know squat about making sims stuff, web sites, etc. but I do know that treating each other in a verbally abusive manner is inappropriate and more steps should have been taken to acknowledge that it should not have happened, apologies given and promises to VS members that more adult behavior will be taken in the future. It would have gone a long way in regaining trust.

[Inge]

I remember when I was giving up my forums on VS, I told the site admins privately, and politely, what I intended to do and I got loads of personal abuse over it between telling them and actually shutting up shop.  Rentechd mainly just started ignoring me, but Vampire was as abusive in chat as he was to me in the forums over the CEP thing recently.   I had totally innocent reasons for closing the forums at the time - but by the time they'd finished calling me a liar and everything else I couldn't have done anything but leave and wished I could just pull the plug immediately but I didn't want to inconvenience the people who were already using my forums.

[Motoki]

I know creators moving between sites is stressful on everyone, the creator, the site owner and the downloaders, but I feel like if everyone were willing to be mature about it things don't have to be so bad. It could be agreed upon to leave current files up but that the creator would not be posting any new ones or a link could be posted to the creator's new site.

You (and I'm speaking collectively here) don't have to like someone to show them some basic respect or at very least have enough respect to keep your personal feelings personal and not subject those looking to download files to the site wars and drama. I'm definitely not the biggest MTS2 fan, but I have to say they've generally been pretty good about leaving files up when a creator decides to move on to another place. They also tend not to block links to other sites when people ask where the creator went. Pam on the other hand has gone to the extreme of blocking moreawesomethanyou.com sitewide on VS even to the point of blocking it in private messages. There's no reason for that other than to be vindictive.

[Inge]

VS seems to be having one of its erratic butt^H^H^H^Hserver moments right now.

[nataku]

I don't go to VS for the conversations, in fact I've pretty much decided to stay out of them. I saw that thread and it was awful, I couldn't get past the first 3 pages of it. I was appalled at the way people were conducting themselves and I didn't think it was really appropriate for people who neither made hacked objects or made objects of any sort (recolors or new) to stick their noses into the issue and make things even worse since it had nothing to do with them (it was like they were deliberately egging people on).

Rentechd is not on my good side (not that it matters) for reasons I wont go into but the only reason I even visit VS now is because of TwoJeffs and Dizzy-two (and if they left I would follow) though I have maybe 2 of Carrigons hacks. It doesn't help any that even though I have a very fast internet speed it takes ages for VS to load and often it wont load at all. I dont see how some of the mods at VS can attack MTS2 when their own site is nearly inaccessible. MTS2 loads much quicker, and yes while I did at first dislike the change of site layout I have since gotten used to it and found that it's much easier to find specific types of objects I'm looking for, but I don't visit that site for the conversations either as most of them dont make any sense. I dont visit the BBS for the same reason.

[Bangelnuts]

Just thought I'd let everybody know I have decided, after a good night's sleep, to take my lots off VS and leave an explanation why.

Don't suppose my post will be there long, it's all very 1984, but I feel much better for having done it. I don't like conflict but I usually stand up for my beliefs.

Now I just have to make a webpage. This would be fine except I've just downloaded Pegasys' (sp?) new sims database and I also have a java assignment due in in a couple of weeks. And all I really want to do is play the sims. Still, I'll let you know when I have something back up. I'm working on a split level house in shades of grey - based on Retroville set from MTS2 and a boarding house lot with elevators at the moment.

Edit: Well less than three hours I lasted. I had an auto-email from the thread I left, dizzy2 replied. I clicked the link. No thread, no witch. Gone, never existed. I feel a little orwellian today.
[/color]

Thanks witch for the heads up about removing your lots from varioussimmers I was gonna headthere and grab a few. I only go there for the downloads for the most part.I dont care for the BS so prevalent in the threads.when I took the survey I had to  keep in my mind the creators there that I really like Two Jeffs,carrignon has a few I use,Merola. so I kept my opinion of the site etc  at nuetral. I came here as I have always used  pescado's hacks and I also use Inge's hacks. ie toddler sleep through the night a blessing for my sim parents and it works on babies as well, not to mention anytime Ive needed the people here at least give advice that is useful

[themaltesebippy]

VS seems to be having one of its erratic butt^H^H^H^Hserver moments right now.

The pure, virginal server at VS doesn't have "server moments!"  Your computer must be 100 years old because VS runs at lightning speed for "everyone else*."

/sarcasm mode off

*'everyone else' being the VS nutswingers

[Oddysey]

Ah, politics. And tech community politics at that. Technical politics, between scientists or coders or other similiar types, is much, much worse than governmental politics. Makes campaign mudslinging look like a Victorian tea party. (Not that Victorian tea parties weren't riddled with politics, of course, but they didn't *look* like they were.)

These most recent VC inanities have made me very glad that Pescado moved a long time ago. Now I have a nice fuzzy interent box to snuggle in . . . with fire. Heh heh heh.

[witch]

@dizzy - I thought I could keep out of the politics. I figured the large influx of bbs kiddies to VS would look for downloads and spend their time composing siggies. I suspected they wouldn't be involved in politics, would expect an authoritarian approach to posts and threads and I would get to disseminate my lots across a wider audience.

When I joined VS it was on the cusp of Pescado leaving, though because I don't go to chat or read politics much, I didn't know he was leaving. I nearly didn't post there anyway when I found out that some shit had gone down & JM was outta there, but then decided to give VS the benefit of the doubt.

As time passed I became more uncomfortable about being allied with the site, I didn't know any of the people and never managed to post there, apart from lots, because I found MATY far more interesting. I never really felt part of the site, though I didn't make any efforts that way myself either.

In the end, when I saw the irrational behaviour it just felt too hypocritical to stay. To an old feminist, the political is personal, even though it gets harder to summon the energy for each fight. And Cabelle is right, I had no desire to communicate personally with any of 'that thread' participants.

@motoki - as Laeshanin says, harsh but fair. My dealings with VS admin were always pleasant and helpful whilst I was there but never with a great warm welcome, they do indeed wish to be known as a modding site primarily, they definitely said while I was there they didn't want any more lot builders and fair enough, that's their choice, I was pleased enough to have my lots hosted for a time. Motoki, I don't understand how people can stay neutral either, I wanted to, I tried to, but I had an unease that nagged. Peoples' encouraging words here were a trigger, not a cause of my leaving VS.

@Inge - Your tale makes me bloody glad I didn't send any private messages to VS site admin letting them know what I was up to! Part of why I left a post was so VS posters would see an explanation of the fact that I disappeared, I can appreciate why you wanted your readers to have continuity.

@Cabelle - yes, once I made my decision I just wanted out of there as fast as possible, quick, clean, no argument. Scorched earth policy is a good description of that debating tactic.

@motoki - I thought about what was there and leaving the lots up that were already there, but I wanted no connection whatsoever. I think the site will implode. Edit: Sorry, sorry, forgot where I was for the moment. The site will explode of course, burninating into a BFBVFS.

@bangelnuts - was it the starter homes you were after? PM me, most are small enough to email. All other lots should still be hosted on thesims2ea.com username = bolshywitch. You just won't see my glorious piccies.

@oddyssey - except when victorians start slinging crates of tea off boats during a tea-party, then you can see the politics. 

[Motoki]

Witch: I know you're an adult and can well make up your own mind, but I must admit I started to feel a little guilt that I may have in some small way been responsible for what went down over there last night and at a time when I've told myself to stay out of the drama (which is hard for me lol!). Ultimately, I know we weren't the cause of you leaving but merely a few more straws loaded onto the camel's back, but it's nice to hear it come from you nonetheless.

I didn't mean to imply it was immature on your part to leave like that either. Hell, from what I gather you're a lot politer than I would have been. And I've no room to talk in that department as I got pissed a while back and took down all my stuff from MTS2 when some stuff went down between Delphy and I. In a perfect world, it would be nice if people could at least part from sites amicably but that's not been my experience and obviously not yours either. I very much agree with you that the personal is political and I know I could not associate myself with any site where those running it were behaving in a manner I found mean spirited and disrespectful of others so I do understand where you were coming from and why you did what you did.

Oh and about the Exchange and pictures, they do let you upload your own screenshots. I've seen some lots there where you can click on the little camera icon on the right side and access more pictures.

[Sagana]

Unless you've a problem with them, or a problem waiting for approval (lots seem to get approved pretty quickly imo) or think they won't approve them, I think MTS2 is a good place to upload things (at least, I much prefer downloading from there than from the exchange ) You can have any kind of screenshots you like.

[dizzy]

Like it or not, Witch, you have made a political statement. I won't debate whether your statement is correct, but I will dispute whether you chose the right method.

There is no policy at VS about what forum owners can post other than the general policy against "harmful" posts (like obscene material or direct threats). You could, for example, simply make a statement that you object to certain opinions. You could also question whether the matter was resolved and deserves to be reopened. You could dispute any of the assertions that you found unpleasant or objectionable. It would be useful if there was such a thread for those who feel most strongly about it. Given that there isn't one, I have to question whether you really do feel that strongly about it, or whether you simply prefer to avoid the issue.

If there were, for example, some decree by the admins that further limited my own freedom to post, I would make a general statement on my disappointment with such a policy, perhaps post a poll on the matter, and maybe in some remote way hint that an ultimatum was on the way. That would be how I could best serve my interests.

Of course, I hate politics and I understand why you would avoid a lengthy dispute, but there is no avoiding making a statement of some kind.

[witch]

Yes, I could have done any number of things, most of your suggestions involve becoming a participant and yes, you're also right that I choose not to participate.

Being adult means making decisions, taking action and handling any consequent fallout. Yes, I made a strong statement - intentionally.

I have no issue with any other members of VS, including you I think you should totally stick with what you feel comfortable doing, working within is just another way of trying to effect change. Please don't feel defensive if some posters here disagree, at least we can discuss these issues like adults.

[Hook]

Like it or not, Witch, you have made a political statement. I won't debate whether your statement is correct, but I will dispute whether you chose the right method.
<snip>
You could, for example, simply make a statement that you object to certain opinions.

First of all Dizzy2, let me state that I have great respect for you. 

Now, while I can't speak for Witch, it looks like it wasn't *opinions* she was objecting to, but the actions of the people.  And I have to agree.  If I'd had stuff hosted by VS, after seeing the behavior in the CEP thread I'd have to distance myself from that site as well.  I expect people I associate with to be reasonably adult.

And as Inge found out, if you have a dog that bites, but has never bitten you, it's easy to ignore the problem.  For a while.  I sincerely hope you never get bitten yourself.

Hook

[Inge]

Dizzy, I haven't been over to check for myself, but another thread here points out that you are indeed having your messages censored on your own VS forums.   I read that in one of your messages you give a link to this site in order for your users to obtain some further information.   That link has now been censored, presumably not by you.   If this is true, it will be at least the second occasion to my knowledge that they have interfered with something you're trying to convey on your own forums, in spite of not breaking any stated site-wide rules.   I hope you were informed by your hosts so that you had a chance edit the message to provide the information locally.

[vecki]

Anyone seen this? 

Take Our Survey and You Could Get a Gift!
TAKE OUR SURVEY AND YOU COULD GET A TREAT COMPLIMENTS OF MAXIS AND VARIOUSIMMERS!!

50 lucky members, who take our survey, will recieve a surprise gift that Maxis has provided to Variousimmers to share with the Sims 2 Community in celebration of the release of the upcoming Console and Handheld versions of The Sims 2. There is no trick to this treat except to be one of the first 50 people to meet the criteria for the gift! So get you mouse moving and click the link, the survey is only 20 questions long!
Click here to take our Online Survey http://freeonlinesurveys.com/rendersurvey.asp?id=122090

There are questions included about what you think of VS, the moderators, the site, the administrators.  I was tempted to give bad marks but I thought of TJ and dizzy and bumped it up to Neutral, except for site administrators.     I was mainly just curious because I really don't care to win anything.  I don't use handheld gaming consoles.

Back to the post where this thread began... erm, or something.

I took the survey, and because I'm not a huge VS downloader anymore - I only joined shortly before JMP left, and his forum was where I was spending the majority of my time, I felt free to bag them and tell them what I thought.  Not like I wanted their 'gift' anyway.

Now twojeffs is the ONLY reason I ever go back to that site, and I really wish he would up and leave it, too.

[laeshanin]

All I can say is that Witch has perfect right to do what she chooses in circumstances that were becoming untenable. And as it is not exactly an isolated example of immaturity, I feel she did the right thing too! It may be political, but if no-one makes a stand about these sort of issues others will get away with treating you (collective 'you') like a piece of shite the dog brought in. Surely people leaving a forum gets a message over, or is VS so obtuse as to not be able to understand? This is such a pile of crap, really, eh? I don't know what the answer to this nonsense is, but it feels like there should be a damn good mediator at times.

[witch]

Interesting, had two emails today saying there were two private messages for me at VS. Full of curiosity I hastened to my inbox to find....


NOTHING


No messages, I mean no messages at all. None that I have received since being at VS and saved in my inbox. Zip, nada, nothing.

Must be a technical buttocks hitch.

[J. M. Pescado]

Interesting, had two emails today saying there were two private messages for me at VS. Full of curiosity I hastened to my inbox to find....


NOTHING

Maybe they were very unflattering and got deleted by Rentech.

[Inge]

I could have sworn I posted a reply to this already.  I'm not on moderated am I?   Anyway let's try again:

I can't read PMs at VS either as from yesterday.  I can post them, and I can get notification of having a reply, but I can't read the reply.   I wonder if Rennie got something the wrong way round?

[witch]

I thought I would send a test PM to Inge. VS cannot find Inge.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Inge]

Witch, I think I was Inge Jones on there.  Try with both names.

Edit: No I think you're right.  Also as it's my birthday today I would have expected to be listed in the birthdays, but as I am not I have to assume the account has been vaped entirely.

A bit weird really, because whatever made them decide to put me on moderated, I certainly hadn't done anything since to deserve "punishment".  I am not sure therefore what policy has been applied to me.

[Ness]

It was Inge Jones...  searching brings up this:  http://www.variousimmers.net/vsimforum/member.php?userid=14

but only when you locate a post - I searched through all the Is in the member list, all traces of Inge have been scrubbed