Random Deaths in TS3

[CM]

I'm a longtime lurker who much prefers to research the answer, but after exhausting all the given resources on this topic I am stumped.  I need your help.

I've done the research on this topic in this forum and this is what I understand:

1)There are random deaths that occur in the game in which the gravestones have turned up missing.  If the 'manage the dead' option has been clicked on the mausoleum, then the inventory does not list their names. So far, I have not found a simple solution to this issue.

2)For loved ones of the deceased, the gravestone turns up in their inventories for placement in the cemetery.  If this happens, one can use "setconfig debuginteractons true" in order to spawn a ghost, or to ressurrect a given character within the neighborhood.

These are my questions as follows:

1)Where are the files located for random deaths in the game?  

2)Is there a chance to re-spawn characters who have died randomly in the game? I have tried, "resetSim <FirstName><LastName>" as well as "testingcheatsenabled true" to find a solution, but to no avail.  I have even used "spawn" in the debugcommands to try and see if the deceased sims would come back (even though I discovered later that this would enabled the game to spawn a certain number of sims  and not a specific one).

3)Is there a way to at least spawn the tombstone of the sims who have randomly died? I thought that with a headstone, I would have a fighting chance to at least ressurrect a ghost or a sim.  I had even "killed" a character off to see if I could get her living survivor to "manage the dead" and retrieve the "randomly deceased" sims from the inventory in the mausoleum.  This ended up futile as well.

If anything, is it at all possible to create a fix for this persistent and often annoying problem? I don't like it when Story Progression chooses some of my most favorite and beloved characters and all of a sudden hauls them off a cliff. To add insult to injury, there is no marker to at least denote the deaths.  It has happened three times to each of my "sacred" families.  In these cases, the people selected by the game were "chosen".  On the Indie mod side, the households had "random deaths" off.

I shall await your answers.  Your help is much appreciated.

[minidoxigirli]

Does your Awesomemod config have Killed-on-a-bus disabled?

[CM]

Does your Awesomemod config have Killed-on-a-bus disabled?

That's a good question.  I will go and check.  Thanks for suggesting this.

Update: I went and checked the "showconfig" and found that the "NoBusKills" is listed as true.  So these "random deaths" happening to sacred families are operating independently from that command.

[pbox]

What exactly do you mean by "random deaths" - sims of any age die like that? Or "only" elders?

If you just mean elders, that's a known issue for all I know .. default game behaviour. At least for up to 1.2.7 (with old Awesome - that's what I'm running; I have no experience with newer versions). What version do you have? Are you sure you're up to date?

Here's another thread about deaths with no gravestones: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,15308.msg463589.html#msg463589 -- I think there's at least one more, basically always the same thing .. some sims going poof without leaving a trace.

[CM]

What exactly do you mean by "random deaths" - sims of any age die like that? Or "only" elders?

Sims of any age.  These sims are ones that I have marked for sacred.  In my understanding, when a sim is marked by "sacred" status, that means that they are protected from all aspects of story progression, right?

By random deaths, I mean that out of the blue there is a popup message saying that a particular character has had an accident and has died.  In that instance, one would naturally expect a tombstone to spawn. Furthermore, the headstone would either be in the family inventory or the mausoleum in order for his/her loved ones to "manage the dead".

But, in my game, this has not happened.  In fact, the game still lists the deceased as alive, but the character has disappeared from the family.

If you just mean elders, that's a known issue for all I know .. default game behaviour. At least for up to 1.2.7 (with old Awesome - that's what I'm running; I have no experience with newer versions). What version do you have? Are you sure you're up to date?

In the previous versions (meaning 1.2.7 as well as 1.3), I haven't had this happen.  My "sacred" families remained safe, including elders until I decided to play their households.  So, yes, I have updated to 1.4. I also have the latest version of the awesomemod.  I always make sure to check the awesome mod section of this forum to see if it is updated.

But in this instance, this isn't just happening to elders; this is happening to Young Adults and Adults in the 1.4 version.

For example, one of the sims that experienced a "random death" (and marked for sacred status) was just newly created.  I switched to play another family household when I get this popup stating that a "local woman, [the name of my particular sim] had died while rock-climbing.  She had fallen to her death."
I am all right with the fact of random deaths if one could at least find the headstone so I could make a ghost out of the particular character, or that I have a chance to ressurrect her if I so choose.  But, after her "random death", I can't find her tombstone.  I tried searching all over the neighborhood.  I've even tried using debugging commands to see if the game could respawn the character or at least locate where she had died.


In another instance the same thing happened to my "founder's family" in which the wife died in a similar fashion.  After trying the same things to ressurrect her, I clicked on the family tree of one of her children to see if his mother was greyed out.  Instead of having her picture greyed out, her picture was still in its original color form.  Therefore, I thought I would have the chance of trying to find her and ressurrecting her if I could "respawn her" somehow.  But to no avail, I could not.  She, as well as the first woman, is lost into the ether.

That's why I asked if there was a particular fix for this problem.  Or, if there was, by chance a headstone locator so I can at least bury them.  

Here's another thread about deaths with no gravestones: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,15308.msg463589.html#msg463589 -- I think there's at least one more, basically always the same thing .. some sims going poof without leaving a trace.

I poured over this thread, hoping that there might be a solution.  I didn't want to add on to that one because of necromancy rules.  The thread posed the problem while discussing certain commonalities that I have experienced.  However, it did not pose a solution.  And that is why after looking throughout this forum as well as on google I decided to break my silence and hoped that someone might have found something to advance my understanding of this known issue.

Thank you for your insight, though.

[J. M. Pescado]

For example, one of the sims that experienced a "random death" (and marked for sacred status) was just newly created.  I switched to play another family household when I get this popup stating that a "local woman, [the name of my particular sim] had died while rock-climbing.  She had fallen to her death."

There's no such thing as rock-climbing and no such death. Are you sure you aren't using a third-party system?

[Kyna]

ISM generates random deaths, including the rock climbing death.  ISM is configured from the phone menu, so have a look there and see if there's an option to turn these deaths off.

The developers of ISM had to stop work on it due to real life commitments, so ISM is not currently supported.  There's no point in asking for changes to its features (such as retaining grave markers from its random deaths) unless some other modder takes up work on it.  Pescado won't be taking it up, as he has developed his own story mode which takes a different approach.

[CM]

There's no such thing as rock-climbing and no such death. Are you sure you aren't using a third-party system?

You are correct in the fact that the random death pop-ups don't mention rock-climbing, per se.  Unfortunately, I should have read the pop-up more closely.

However, the pop-ups do mention random accidents such as drowning or falling and hitting one's head. These occurrences happen without any warning to any sim in the neighborhood.  

 I used Awesomemod to make the specific households sacred. Indie Stone was also implemented to switch off the random death portion of story mode.  And the characters involved were not elderly, because I am playing a relatively new neighborhood in which I "raptured" all the townie families that the game spawned.

(On another note, no one has immigrated from their households or merged with another family.  That part still works.)

I do remember that the founder's wife had an accident while hiking--as the pop-up said while I was playing another family.  When that happened (via pop-up), I immediately switched (through editTown) to that family to find a headstone of some sort.  Unfortunately, none was found in the husband's inventory (being direct next of kin) nor the family inventory.  The wife was gone.  However, her picture in the family tree was still in color and not greyed out.  There is no trace of her anywhere in the neighborhood.  It is as if the game decided just to ramdomly make her "disappear".  The kids aren't even saddened that she is gone.  The three children were "best friends" with their mother.  Only the husband has a "moodlet" of her death.

On that note, the only third party system(s) I've used is the Awesomemod and the Indie Stone mod.  However, this pop-up was not in pink (a la Indie Stone); it was in yellow like the reports that a sim would read in the newspaper.  

To make a long story short, this happened with "sacred" status, "random deaths" turned off as well as NoBusKills being denoted as true.

I appreciate you considering this problem. And I hope that something can be worked out to find a fix for this distressing issue.

ISM generates random deaths, including the rock climbing death.  ISM is configured from the phone menu, so have a look there and see if there's an option to turn these deaths off.

  I do have "random deaths" turned off both in Indie Stone as well as sacred status in Awesomemod.  Thank you for your suggestion and interest in this problem.

[Motoki]

If I recall correctly (and someone correct me if I am wrong here), sacred doesn't do squat with Indie Stone on but give a cute little halo. If you run Indie Stone then you must go in and select their household and set it to stasis, which is more or less the Indie equivalent of sacred.

Running Indie will supercede awesomemod for all story mode features. If you chose to run Indie Stone you must configure all story mode settings within Indie Stone (the cell phone). Awesomemod will not touch any story mode features while Indie is running.

[Kyna]

Just because they're not in pink doesn't mean that these deaths aren't caused by Indie Stone.  They are one of the features of ISM.

ISM is overriding the sacred status set in AM.  That's how it's supposed to function if you are running AM & ISM together - AM hooks into the core and overrides the core, and then ISM hooks into AM and overrides AM.

Indie Stone was also implemented to switch off the random death portion of story mode.

If this is your only reason for having ISM in your game, then I suggest you remove it.  AM already has that functionality (when not overridden by ISM) - use "no bus kills" and/or the sacred feature.

EDIT to add: If you have any further questions about using ISM, I suggest you ask in the ISM support forum over at MTS.  Even though the developers no longer have the time to work on ISM, there are plenty of people in that forum who understand its workings who may be able to answer your questions.

[CM]

If I recall correctly (and someone correct me if I am wrong here), sacred doesn't do squat with Indie Stone on but give a cute little halo. If you run Indie Stone then you must go in and select their household and set it to stasis, which is more or less the Indie equivalent of sacred.

Running Indie will supercede awesomemod for all story mode features. If you chose to run Indie Stone you must configure all story mode settings within Indie Stone (the cell phone). Awesomemod will not touch any story mode features while Indie is running.

But with the Indie Stone mod, I had disabled all Household settings.  But you have a point in terms of stasis.  I didn't enable it, so therein lies the first part of my problem.  I did not know that the Indie Stone mod superceded the Awesomemod features.  I was pretty secure in thinking that my families were safe with only "sacred" status alone.  Now, I know.

Just because they're not in pink doesn't mean that these deaths aren't caused by Indie Stone.  They are one of the features of ISM.

ISM is overriding the sacred status set in AM.  That's how it's supposed to function if you are running AM & ISM together - AM hooks into the core and overrides the core, and then ISM hooks into AM and overrides AM.

If this is your only reason for having ISM in your game, then I suggest you remove it.  AM already has that functionality (when not overridden by ISM) - use "no bus kills" and/or the sacred feature.

If that is the case, I probably will remove it because it had caused me nothing but grief.  But, I was concerned about the crib issue when it came to the Awesomemod Story driver.  I will read the comments there to see if the matter was settled.

The only thing now is to find out whether the sims who died "by accident" can be retrieved.  Or, that there is a fix that will enable the sims who "die by accident" to spawn an actual headstone.  That would be very nice.

Kyna and Motoki, I appreciate your helpful advice.  It made me view this issue in a different light.

[Motoki]

I think if there is no tombstone it would be hard to retrieve such a character.

You might be able to finagle something by playing around with the neighborhood workshop. Maybe there's an 'Is Dead?' flag or something you can switch off.

Even then I'm not sure where they'd end up. Probably they'd be assigned to lot zero which means homeless. Only they'd be off everyone's contact list so you'd probably have to cheat some sim to know everyone in order to call them over.

Of course this is all my hypothetical thought, I haven't tried such a thing mind you. I'm not even sure if Indie leaves a residue of that character in the save or completely shredderizes them, but I suspect the former so it's worth a look. If it's possible you'll have to jump through a bunch of hoops though unless someone else can think of an easier way.

[Kyna]

If that is the case, I probably will remove it because it had caused me nothing but grief.  But, I was concerned about the crib issue when it came to the Awesomemod Story driver.  I will read the comments there to see if the matter was settled.

The only thing now is to find out whether the sims who died "by accident" can be retrieved.  Or, that there is a fix that will enable the sims who "die by accident" to spawn an actual headstone.  That would be very nice.

Kyna and Motoki, I appreciate your helpful advice.  It made me view this issue in a different light.

No, the crib issue isn't settled, we still need cribs unfortunately.  I wasn't keen on the crib thing initially, although I'm discovering that having different types of lots in my game (e.g. some 1 single bed only, some double bed only, some double bed + single beds, some double bed + crib, some double bed + crib + single beds) allows me to set up a neighbourhood to ensure I have a steady supply of cheap housing for poorer sims.

[CM]

I think if there is no tombstone it would be hard to retrieve such a character.

You might be able to finagle something by playing around with the neighborhood workshop. Maybe there's an 'Is Dead?' flag or something you can switch off.

Unfortunately, I'm a Mac user.  So, I can't use Neighborhood Workshop.  I wish I could.  

Even then I'm not sure where they'd end up. Probably they'd be assigned to lot zero which means homeless. Only they'd be off everyone's contact list so you'd probably have to cheat some sim to know everyone in order to call them over.

Unfortunately, "listhomeless" was the first command I tried when it came to seeking the dead sims.  The hope I'm hanging on is the fact that the dead sims aren't completely gone from the system.  Maybe someone can use that little bit of information in order to create a solution to this issue.  After all, the dead sims are still mentioned in the family tree.  However, when I went into "set config enabledebuginteractions" and clicked on geneaology, the game did not recognize the dead sim's ties to the rest of the family. So, I'm clueless where to turn next in order to at least restore their headstones.

Of course this is all my hypothetical thought, I haven't tried such a thing mind you. I'm not even sure if Indie leaves a residue of that character in the save or completely shredderizes them, but I suspect the former so it's worth a look. If it's possible you'll have to jump through a bunch of hoops though unless someone else can think of an easier way.

I know I must.  I have a copy of each of the dead sims and their spouses in the library (or sim bin).  I thought about putting the "live versions" of the sims who had accidents on a lot and then merge them with their respective families.  I've read the pro's and cons of such an action, but I am seriously thinking about it.

No, the crib issue isn't settled, we still need cribs unfortunately.  I wasn't keen on the crib thing initially, although I'm discovering that having different types of lots in my game (e.g. some 1 single bed only, some double bed only, some double bed + single beds, some double bed + crib, some double bed + crib + single beds) allows me to set up a neighbourhood to ensure I have a steady supply of cheap housing for poorer sims.

Most of my houses in this neighborhood are furnished already due to the fact that I've kept some of the EAxis houses.  So, I don't really have to worry about the cribs issue.  But, when I want to build a house of my own in a given neighborhood for a specific family, I really don't want be forced to build a nursery each time.  I would really like to design the houses for my families on a case-by-case basis.  That's why I hope that there is a workaround.

I'll keep my fingers crossed on that aspect.

[Motoki]

No, the crib issue isn't settled, we still need cribs unfortunately.  I wasn't keen on the crib thing initially, although I'm discovering that having different types of lots in my game (e.g. some 1 single bed only, some double bed only, some double bed + single beds, some double bed + crib, some double bed + crib + single beds) allows me to set up a neighbourhood to ensure I have a steady supply of cheap housing for poorer sims.

Most of my houses in this neighborhood are furnished already due to the fact that I've kept some of the EAxis houses.  So, I don't really have to worry about the cribs issue.  But, when I want to build a house of my own in a given neighborhood for a specific family, I really don't want be forced to build a nursery each time.  I would really like to design the houses for my families on a case-by-case basis.  That's why I hope that there is a workaround.

I'll keep my fingers crossed on that aspect.

I have complained loudly and many, many times about the issue but he is stubborn.

However I still encourage others to complain about the cribnaziism.

I understand what Kyna is saying about allowing her to set up her neighborhood but the problem I have is that it forces me to do that and engage in Sim City style play which I don't particularly care to do. I don't want to mess with my neighborhood. That's why I wanted story mode in the first place. For it to deal with all that and just let me play my one family.

[Kyna]

I understand what Kyna is saying about allowing her to set up her neighborhood but the problem I have is that it forces me to do that and engage in Sim City style play which I don't particularly care to do. I don't want to mess with my neighborhood. That's why I wanted story mode in the first place. For it to deal with all that and just let me play my one family.

The thing is that it's not continual play or continual re-configuration, it's do it once and forget - or it will be once I've finished figuring it out.  I thought about downloading the template with cribs in every lot from the Pudding Factory, but I don't want a crib on every lot.  I want a mixture of bedding configurations to enable households to move through different style housing as their needs change and to keep the population fairly stable at ~ 100 or so sims.  I'm still experimenting with different amounts of each lot type, but when I've figured out how many of each type I want, I'll set up a template for my own use - although I doubt I'll be sharing the template as my idea of adding a crib to a lot that I don't intend to play is to put it on the lawn.

[CM]

I have complained loudly and many, many times about the issue but he is stubborn.

However I still encourage others to complain about the cribnaziism.

I understand what Kyna is saying about allowing her to set up her neighborhood but the problem I have is that it forces me to do that and engage in Sim City style play which I don't particularly care to do. I don't want to mess with my neighborhood. That's why I wanted story mode in the first place. For it to deal with all that and just let me play my one family.

For the most part, I love to design my own neighborhoods.  I am very saddened that we cannot design our own particular neighborhoods in terms of terraforming and mapping out streets, as in SC4.  EA took out the best aspect of the Sims franchise and forced us to work with the scraps they threw us.  In a way, I am sort of disgusted that the developers trampled on the "sandbox" aspect of play and ruined the "creative freedom" that Sims players used to have.

With that being said, my play style is dictated by how I think the neighborhood is going to go.  If there is going to be one core family and their generations dominating a particular neighborhood, then I will play that one family.  Otherwise, I will place my "sacred" families on lots and build the neighborhood around them despite the limited controls we are allowed to have.  Knowing that we have such limitations, I would certainly hope that the crib issue is optional despite the obstinacy being exhibited.

For my part, I will continue to read the further developments on this issue.  And if there is a time to speak about it, I will be sure to put my two cents in.  I would rather the decision for having kids to be left to the family and not be forced through Story mode.  Story mode, as far as I am concerned, has done enough damage not only to the neighborhood but to the game itself.

[kuronue]

The thing is that it's not continual play or continual re-configuration, it's do it once and forget - or it will be once I've finished figuring it out. 

Yeah, but it means as soon as I switch to awesomestory, I have to spend however long editing all my neighborhoods. I don't even know half the sims that live in the one I play now - the family is rather isolationist. I don't particularly find renovating houses fun, compared to just playing the damn game. And every new game I do, I have to edit everything again! At least for that I can download a ready-made hood.

[gtachampion]

I have complained loudly and many, many times about the issue but he is stubborn.

However I still encourage others to complain about the cribnaziism.

I am not currently playing Awesome Story Mode but am trying to keep up with issues on it in case I do. This crib thing is one issue I would have.

My simple question is this...why the obsession with cribs? My son's friend and his girlfriend and baby lived in my house for several months (as opposed to both their parents allowing them to be homeless) and there was no crib. No one could afford one, so the baby slept on a small mattress next to his parents bed which was also a mattress on the floor.  Shit happens, the economy sucks, and people can't afford things like full bed frames and cribs but life goes on as does procreation apparently.

[CheritaChen]

Population control. He's set it up in such a way that, as described by Kyna, the player can establish what kinds of households they will see develop. Refer to the various story mode threads in the AwesomeMod! section.

[Mootilda]

Yeah, but it means as soon as I switch to awesomestory, I have to spend however long editing all my neighborhoods. I don't even know half the sims that live in the one I play now - the family is rather isolationist. I don't particularly find renovating houses fun, compared to just playing the damn game. And every new game I do, I have to edit everything again! At least for that I can download a ready-made hood.

Try this:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,16383.0.html

[kuronue]

Yeah, but it means as soon as I switch to awesomestory, I have to spend however long editing all my neighborhoods. I don't even know half the sims that live in the one I play now - the family is rather isolationist. I don't particularly find renovating houses fun, compared to just playing the damn game. And every new game I do, I have to edit everything again! At least for that I can download a ready-made hood.

Try this:
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,16383.0.html

note emphasis above. The issue is I have 4 or 5 games I started before awesomestory was created that I don't want to go in and edit.

[Process Denied]

I don't know if Prescado has fixed the no tombstone thing, but I don't seem to have that problem anymore.  I used to miss a death announcement and the tombstone would not be there(it had to be immediate).  Now when I get a death announcement, I sent someone down there and there are a few tombstones in there and I didn't even know they died.  A Sim doesn't have to know the deceased, just have them leave it at the cemetary and later, the family can pick it up.