Creating a Prison System to explore Sim Inequality!

[stescouse]

I just wanted to thank the Pescado for Awesommod for a superb job  it has delivered the game I expected. 

The most surprising thing for me was the ability the mod gave for me to explore Crime and Punishment in the game.  The arrests through the actions of the Pedo intrigued me so having given it to some of the town's most prominent citizen's who were then arrested I figured I needed a prison for those caught (the higher the profession the more satisfying the fall!)  I downloaded an excellent smallish prision from mod the sims.  then I downloaded a door locker (after much experiment with metal bookshelves placed over doors).  My rock star perv  (I was thinking of Gary Glitter - famous English rock star pedo did prison time in Vietnam) was caught with a boy by the police and lost his career and after being released from the police station he was rearrested loitering on school grounds.    So I transferred him to my prison where he became someone's bitch very quickly and made enemies just as quick and got beat up a lot so was put in isolation.   The prisoners ranged from old lags that did the cooking and cleaning to evil nutters that I decided would die in prison.

It was fascinating observing the effect of incarceration on his mood, first of all I shaved his head, put him in orange prison clothes, and then had his rich wife  cut him off totally both financially and demand a divorce.  Because he had transferred to the prison his wealth was lost and when he was released he left with 0 simonleons.  In prison after a while all the cons get the stir crazy moodlet.  What I found interesting was having played the town for weeks now, I decided to stay with my sim and not leave the prision until he had served his sentence  I didn't flip to my other ‘sacreds' and just let the town progress outside the prison walls.  This made the game very isolating so when he was finally released the rest of the town had moved on and both me and the prisoner hadn't participated so suddenly being released into the sim world gave the real feeling (sim-wise let's not get weird or geeky about this) of liberation which made the game much more realistic.  Also when he first went to prison his mood dropped dramatically as he was banged up in a cell for most of the day, but after a while he became institutionalised and look forward to prison visits from those friends that had not abandoned him and forgot those that had.  Prison visits from behind plate glass booths of course.

Having created one prison I decided I needed a juvenile detention centre or borstal as we used to call them in England.  So I got a bigger more maximum security prison and moved all the adults to that then moved some teen juveniles to the borstal including the Pedobait that my rock star got sent to prison for. 

Now after a while I give each sim new traits of klepto as they learn bad habits from the other prisoners, so by the time they come out they have all the mean traits such as evil, klepto, mean-spirited etc. And are generally not good for anything in simsociety. (Much like real prisons). 

Now in playing the prison I developed some characters who were big, bad and dangerous to the point that I decided that these multiple murder's, rapists etc would have to be executed (I am totally against Capital Punishment but hey you can explore your dark side in the Sims!).  So I got hold of a San Quentin prison and installed a guard (each prison only has one so you can fill it with more prisioners - I also used the cheat to unlock the cops uniform for them and recoloured) and a priest (Irish with ginger hair and freckles).  I then installed a death's row along with a death house.  Now the only reliable execution method I could come up with was drowning so I just build a tiny swimming pool in the death house surrounded by glass walls and had the guard, priest and witnesses (and relatives) attend while the prisoner jumped in and then I closed the wall.  The dead prisoner was then buried in the prison grounds to return as a ghost that will add to the misery of the place.  It would be great to animate an electric chair in the future broken stereos and puddles aren't reliable my prisoners kept fixing the dam thing!  Also a killsim command would be useful.

I originally downloaded the homeless household of father and daughter household from the sims3 site and became interested in the sociological experiment of the homeless aspect so from that I decided to explore a prison theme in the sim society, the trait system and rich and poor sim possibilities means I can explore what this means for the sims.  The juvenile detention centre is interesting as I want to see what will happen to the sim boys who leave there and probably, work if their lucky in the burger joint, or most likely enter into the criminal profession.  Having acquired bad traits in prison I wait for their wish to become a criminal and grant them it.   With my prison system in place any criminal caught by the police goes to prison for a set number of days say 3 days for first offence with a day added on for each offence after that.  In some cases that has meant that some sims go in and come out old men or even die in prison.  The worst ones such as the Emperor of Evil are headed for the death house.  I have heard that the IndieStone Story Progression Mod has a town slut which I haven't seen yet but if I do she's headed straight for prostitution and a women's prison. 

In exploring the possibilities of crime with ultimate consequences I explored the nature of crime's effect on the victims.  As in the real world the boys  exploited by the pedo are from poor backgrounds and are in the care system, so I am going to create an orphanage where rejected kids are sent to explore their progress into crime from petty theft to teenage prostitution to organised crime to even murder.  Because each time any sim get's caught they go to prison and their chances of success in the game get less and less.  The possibilities for spousal murder with the gold digger lifetime wish present even more possibilities for the death house!   Now I have a sim society where the implications of poverty, homelessness have a direct consequence on the lives of the rich and middle class sims (all with the Snob trait) as they get robbed, murdered, and have their teenagers get into drugs (pending new mods) and be seduced by perves.

The reason I like the Pedo trait is not the trait itself but the automatic consequences of getting caught I did try the legacy challenges but it felt too contrived where as awesomemod has a random element to it.  The flipside to the trait was the pedobait trait for the boys, now I explored what would that mean, it meant that the boys could like the real world make easy money becoming rent boys (ref. Mysterious Skin superb movie!).  I released a prison bitch (who came with the original prison I downloaded) and he immediately set up a brothel and went about befriending these pedobait sims who I had given bad home lives with horrible fathers, so that they were susceptible to any kind of kindness from the pimp.  I had them move in and then sell their wares to high profile sims such as a particularly charismatic politician.  Now with the camera function for the sims phone I got the pimp to take secret pictures of the session from behind mirrored glass to blackmail the mayor for an even more spectacular fall from grace!    Of course sooner or later the brothel will get busted by the feds and all the boys will go to borstal and the pimp I suspect will be going to San Quentin.  .  I also downloaded Michael Jackson who is not going to get off this time!   

It would be great if when animation mods become possible that such things as murder and other crimes can happen. I would love to have a crazed sim serial killer on the loose, knocking off the townies.  Awesomemod has enabled at least an adult angle to the game instead of all the cute crap by EA.  I find the society in the game reflects your psychology back to you.  As a gay boy with quite ordinary tastes I have a hard time getting hetro in the sims so the women are their just for breeding with the spectacular good looking gay men I create and as soon as they churn out some babies it's divorce.  The amount of times they have caught their husbands in bed with the male cleaner clearly give the whole of my games a Judy Garland meets desperate housewives angle.  I have sections of town populated by ignored child laden divorced fag hags all rather bitter about the lack of ‘eligible men'.  I have a hard time letting my more handsome creations age and die so they are always desperately looking for deathfish and lifefruits to make Ambrosia to cling onto their youth.  The beauty salon should really get in the botox!  Each gay household needs a top chief it's exhausting!

For me the mod allows me to explore cause and effect, crime and punishment to the consequences of a society geting the sims they deserve.  I just have to figure out how to get drugs into the society that would be a great angle to explore - whacked out sims with their lives falling apart - superb.  Maybe when the clubscene comes in an expansion I can have the dealers in there, paying off the owners and getting the sims whacked out just like the London gay scene!

I will post a story board on some adult sites such as sexysims at a later date.

In closing the mod gives the whole game a richness that was lacking after all who wants a picture postcard town like Sunset Valley to not have a dark side that we all know lurks behind the American dream Hahahahahaha!!!!!!  (Evil cackle)

[jolrei]

All very interesting, but it's not really a tutorial or a "facts" post.  For example, it sort of explains what you did in general terms, but does not provide specific steps for recreating your type of prison.  It still begs the question "okay, so exactly how would I do this?"  It does contain some facts, but this is not the overall point of your post, which is, it seems, more of an endorsement of the Awesomemod.

It is more of an interesting observations post based on your playstyle.  As such it would likely be more appropriate in the main "The Horror..." section, I would think.

[stescouse]

Hi there sorry about that I couldn't tell which forum I should post this on.  I will post a tutorial with pics to show the steps and the resulting actions as I develop sims through the system.  Thanks for your feedback.

cheers

[Zazazu]

This is why you read the FAQ and lurk moar, instead of simply registering and posting a thread before getting to know how it works here.

[LauraW]

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing.

I wouldn't mind a prison in my game although I think I will forgo the executions. I once had a monastery in my Sims 2 medieval game where I sent the noble women who did not bear sons and bastard children of nobles. It worked quite well and was fun to play.

If only we had Victorian clothing and objects..I could imagine a dark Victorian London with a prison and asylum, poorhouses, smoke stacks, etc. Hopefully someday...So much of this works better in a world that progresses than in Sims 2.

[witch]

I have heard that the IndieStone Story Progression Mod has a town slut which I haven't seen yet but if I do she's headed straight for prostitution and a women's prison.

So you see prostitutes as criminals in this scenario of yours?

[ZeKat]

I have heard that the IndieStone Story Progression Mod has a town slut which I haven't seen yet but if I do she's headed straight for prostitution and a women's prison.

So you see prostitutes as criminals in this scenario of yours?

To be fair, prostitutes are considered criminals in a lot of countries and will be imprisoned if caught. Although, here in Denmark, it's legal as long as they don't cheat on taxes 

[Verbed Noun]

Fascinating.

Another question all this brings up is how perpetrators and victims are to be defined.  For example, there seems to be no distinction made between the brothel owner and the brothel boys.  You have three normal prisons counting the potential women's prison, but no rehabilitation centres.

[witch]

Nor is there a possibility of redemption in this scenario, the downhill slide is inevitable once embarked upon.

[hidethe_cutlery]

Does a simulated prison system really have to be politically correct? Really?
Really?
Also an FYI, prostitution isn't illegal in NSW and I assume all of Australia, as long as it isn't conducted on the streets. Fun fact: the jobs section of my local paper regularly advertises for new girls.

[stescouse]

I have heard that the IndieStone Story Progression Mod has a town slut which I haven't seen yet but if I do she's headed straight for prostitution and a women's prison.

So you see prostitutes as criminals in this scenario of yours?

I don't make any judgements it's how the sims see them, the code in Awesomemod arrests the sims that have sex with teens, I am aiming for those behviours that don't conform to the base game.  I decided in setting up crime & punishement system that any behaviour that didn't fit in with the cutsey values of the Maxis base game could be regarded as criminal.  In real life I don't regard prostitutes or rent boys as criminals, but more rather the ones exploiting them.

 

[stescouse]

Fascinating.

Another question all this brings up is how perpetrators and victims are to be defined.  For example, there seems to be no distinction made between the brothel owner and the brothel boys.  You have three normal prisons counting the potential women's prison, but no rehabilitation centres.

When the brothel owner gets caught he will go to an adults prision whereas the boy or boys will go to  the detention centre.  In relation to rehabilitation I will leave it to the sim's wants and desires to tell me if any positive actions are possible say if they want to join the military then I will follow it, I've found if they are in prision too long they get stressed and bitter and get into fights so they go the punishement block, if they go too many times or become good friends with a criminal I give them the Klepto trait that off course leads to criminal wishes.

[CheritaChen]

I hate to burst your bubble, stescouse, but what you describe is not an experiment in Sim behavior. It's an entertaining scenario devised by you to explore your values and judgments, with Sims as the actors. Sims being made klepto by you, for example, are being manipulated according to some personal concept of human (or Sim) behavior.

It was fascinating observing the effect of incarceration on his mood, first of all I shaved his head, put him in orange prison clothes, and then had his rich wife  cut him off totally both financially and demand a divorce.

Manipulated, not Sim-autonomous behavior. You made the assumption that a human wife would do this, so you did it for the Sim.

In exploring the possibilities of crime with ultimate consequences I explored the nature of crime's effect on the victims.  As in the real world the boys  exploited by the pedo are from poor backgrounds and are in the care system

Are you saying this is how your pedobear autonomously selected victims, or did you select them for him, too?

Now I have a sim society where the implications of poverty, homelessness have a direct consequence on the lives of the rich and middle class sims (all with the Snob trait) as they get robbed, murdered, and have their teenagers get into drugs (pending new mods) and be seduced by perves.

More judgment, morality and presumption imposed by you. Not all rich humans are snobs. Not all offspring of the rich (nor of snobs, nor even of rich snobs) are drug users, and not all drug users are victims.

Please understand, I'm not saying that what you've chosen to do here isn't a fun and interesting scenario, and I'm not judging your choices for these Sims. I'm trying to point out that your description implies this is a social experiment, but it is nothing of the sort. It's a style of gameplay, like a challenge.

[stescouse]

Thanks for your insight, I agree with your judgement.  What I am trying to experiment with is setting up the system, then seeing if wishes and wants that occur in the sims progress them into the system.  At the moment your right I am pushing certain sims such as pedo's into situations as I haven't figured out yet from observing them if they will exert flirt behaviour with their victims.  I also haven't figured out how pedobait will exhibit itself in without adding flirty trait and such.  Now I've added an orphanage with really nasty matrons and I want to observe what effect it will have on the children in it's care.  With a prison system set up I am now going to try to replicate the homeless lot that was on sims3 exchange where the two homeless characters reacted to living in the open with now showers and no proper sleep and the effects on school and relationships.  Also the criminal career and klepto traits that manifest stealing initiate an arrest more easily with Awesomemod. 

I want to explore how the town will change with poverty and crime and punishment added.  I only added snob trait to the rich as a way of imprinting values on to exhibit behaviours.  Of course you will have some sims with the good trait that should balance it out.  The one thing i will say is the stress behaviours in prison are quite interesting to observe as the sims try to cope with being locked up and can vary depending on the warder who can keep them locked up all day with meals in their cells to those who are allowed out to exercise all day. 

This has led me to think about say extending the different prisons to say maybe a open farm prison in Riverview, and see how a more enlightened environment can progress rehabilitation.  At the moment in the max security prison the range of prisoners with Evil and Insane trait seem to promote fights and the generation of enemies especially when they are all stressed out by the Stir Crazy moodlet that all prisoners get. 

I suppose I will in the end have to set up legacy type challenges with say a set of rules that dictate what type of job a sim can get after leaving school that can depend on final grades, traits, family background etc because at the moment sims just get any job they want though they can get fired.  On committing crimes at the moment that is limited to the criminal career and I think the political career when they steal campaign funds.   Which should result in a prison sentence.    I think I may have to come up with a points system for sims in prison about what happens to them in terms of sentence when they get involved in fights  repeat reoffending So that their sentences reflect their previous offences. 

I don't really like the legacy challenge setup but in a game like this I suppose it's needed where you want as much autonomy as possible.   Where it will come in useful is in devising a system for sims traits changing when in prison such as acquiring the Klepto trait through association with other criminals and other things like mean spirited trait.  I can see that something like say adding mean spirited trait after say their stress levels fall into the stark red after 5 times.  Maybe linking traits to certain behaviours like how many fights they win or how many times they humiliate someone else to how many enemies they acquire during their prison term.

Thanks for the feedback it's made me ponder on a more random points system to add so that I don't direct sim behaviour in order to develop a more observational game play. 

 

[hidethe_cutlery]

Is this reminding anyone else of The Pit of Despair?

[stescouse]

Is this reminding anyone else of The Pit of Despair?

LOL What a horrible man those poor monkeys!

I think my prison system is coming out of my love of 1940's film noir.  Sunset Valley is starting to resemble 1940's LA I need to import Humphrey Bogart.   I can envisage prison breaks.  The latest thing I am working on is a secure hospital for the criminally insane for crazed killers and the dangerously mad as well as a minimal legacy points system for sentencing and what kind of jobs the sims can apply for depending on education and background.

[jolrei]

It's beginning to sound like your game has very few non-criminal sims at all.  Why not just bite the bullet and admit that you're trying to do an "Escape from New York" type scenario in which your whole town becomes a prison?

[CheritaChen]

I'm not sure whether I should be giggling or gagging at the idea of a Snake Plissken pudding. The good news is that with a minimum of tweaking, he could double as a Jack Burton pudding.