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Regina
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I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« on: 2006 March 03, 04:36:36 »
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I know everyone's probably really busy right now with OFB and who can blame you?  I know if I had a system capable of running it I'd be happily playing at the moment, too! LOL

At any rate, since I don't have very good capabilities, and have been planning for the last several months on building a new PC I'm currently trying to pick out parts and pieces.  And so far, so good with the one exception of a video card!  The card I'd like to have is over $300 but it seems like some nice ones are also available for around $200 and less, so before I put that kind of money into a graphics card I have a couple of questions.

The $300+ card is a GeForce 7800GT series with 256 megs of GDDR3, PCI Express.  However, there's also GeForce 6800XT series cards that have the 256 megs of GDDR3, PCI Express and are priced at $135.00 and $160.00.  They all have 256-bit memory interface.

What I really need to know is if anyone thinks there would be enough performance difference between the 7800 and 6800 to justify paying twice the price for the better card.

(While I've been very happy in the past with my GeForce cards, I'm not averse to another brand of card if anyone could point me in the right direction with the proper specs.) Wink
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Motoki
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #1 on: 2006 March 03, 04:54:38 »
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I'm currently kind of between going for a cheaper ATI X800 or waiting a bit longer for the X1800 to go down in price. The X1900s are out now so they 1800s should be going down soon, so I suppose I will hold out a bit longer though you can only play that game so long and will have to hop on at some point.

I really am not well versed on Nvidia cards and have never had them so I wouldn't know a 5800 from a 6800 from a 7200 lol. I suppose I'm not much help, but I'm kind of in the same boat if it's any consolation.

One thing I reccomend in browsing newegg.com and checking out some of the user reviews. You can sort your search by price or limit the price you search for to a certain range and then sort the results by highest rated. It's by no means the only thing to base your purchase on, but it's a start. If a card is a lemon, underpowered, has a loud fan etc etc people will continually trash it in the ratings. On the other hand, if a card is a pretty good deal for the money most people will say so.
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Regina
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #2 on: 2006 March 03, 05:04:09 »
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Hi Motoki, how are ya?

LOL!  Yes, there comes a point when an upgrade is inevitable!  I really hoped this machine would last me longer, but alas.

Oh, I've been at NewEgg almost all day long today!  Shocked  I've read tons of reviews and am still in a quandry!
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twojeffs
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #3 on: 2006 March 03, 05:21:26 »
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I spent a ton of time comparing video cards recently when I built my new rig. I'm not really impressed with the last few generations of ATI cards, although the new X1900 looks good, but for $550 it better.

If you mainly play just the Siims, the 6800 would be fine. If you play any other more graphics intense games, the 7800 will be worth the extra money. But then, any of the 256mb cards are more than powerful enough to run the sims. The sims isn't really graphics processor intensive, it's a memory pig..both graphics memory and ram. It's also more dependent on the CPU than the graphics card, since every object on the lot (both visible and hidden) are constantly demanding processor cycles. The Sims demands a fairly balanced system to run at its best.
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Mister Roboto
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #4 on: 2006 March 03, 05:31:47 »
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I have a 7800 GT, newegg.com had a sale, $250 after rebate. 
I'm running it now at full neigborhood view, and max AA, and detail etc, @ 1000 something by 700 something pixels.
It's a nice step up from a FX5200   Roll Eyes

You might want to wait though maybe until the end of the month before deciding on which card to buy, as the 7600 and 7900 will be coming out, and the 7800 should drop a bit in price and the 6xxx series sould as drop a bit more.
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Regina
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #5 on: 2006 March 03, 05:42:16 »
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Okay, thank you, TwoJeffs!  Yep, not much of a big-time gamer here, mainly TS2, some Zoo Tycoon original and 2, City Building series (yes, I still love those!), and stuff like that.  Oh, I also picked up that farm game put out by John Deere here a while back!  Sys req claim for WinXP and not 98, so I haven't installed it yet.

I think if I was going to spend the extra $100 or so on the computer I'd rather put it into another gig of RAM.  I want to see how much it all adds up to before I decide for sure on that, though.  Hubby's looking at me kinda funny.  I keep having to remind him this is MY money, for a change! LOL

Mister Roboto, thank you for the info!  I've been waiting since October to have the money for this build and (YEAH!) I'll finally have it very shortly.  I know another month isn't very long to wait, but as it is my TS2 game with Uni and NL is getting closer and closer to unplayable all the time--especially if I actually want to take my simmies to a community lot.  On top of that, my girls' computer is worse off than mine is and I'm trying to put one together for them, too.  Soooo, I think I'll go ahead and get it as soon as possible.  (This is the first time in my life I'm actually building a PC that'll be anywhere close to current! LOL  Yep--just a little too excited here!)
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Motoki
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #6 on: 2006 March 03, 13:41:26 »
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In my case I'm not too concerned about Sims 2 or any of the expansions. It's the Elder Scrolls 4 Oblivion coming out later this month I'm worried about. My poor integrated X300 doesn't seem to cut the minimum specs. And Morrowind really put a heavy load on the graphics processor when it came out so I imagine this game will as well.

I want one of those x1900s, hell I'd love to have two in crossfire mode heh, but it's just not in the budget right now.
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DrBeast
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #7 on: 2006 March 03, 14:01:32 »
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Since you're mainly concerned with TS2, I'd go for the 6800 and an extra GB of RAM. Hm. Wrong. The 6800, a new PSU, and a couple of extra fans! Those cards are power-hungry and spew heat like they're a portal to Inferno! Oh, and an extra GB of RAM would be a great addition too if you have the cash!

Edit: nice to see you back again Motoki! When I was AWOL for a couple of months and returned here to find you gone, I can tell you your presence was missed indeed!
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Motoki
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #8 on: 2006 March 03, 14:19:29 »
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I agree about the RAM. If there's one thing I find with this game, no matter how much RAM I put in my computer it seems to use it and then some!  Tongue
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angelyne
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #9 on: 2006 March 03, 14:43:44 »
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I'm in the opposite pickle.  I have my card already, got it for christmas.  It's an GeForce 6600.  I want to upgrade my computer and I can't make up my mind if I want to build it myself (with all the associated headaches) or just buy a Dell.
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DrBeast
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #10 on: 2006 March 03, 14:51:10 »
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I'm in the opposite pickle.  I have my card already, got it for christmas.  It's an GeForce 6600.  I want to upgrade my computer and I can't make up my mind if I want to build it myself (with all the associated headaches) or just buy a Dell.

Never underestimate the power of paracetamol!  Grin
I'd go for a custom-built rig without second thought! Somehow, "brand" computers ALWAYS manage to squeeze in something sub-par, whether it's an integrated graphic card or a low-capacity hard drive or a cheapo monitor.
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MokeyHokey
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #11 on: 2006 March 03, 15:25:36 »
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Quote
Those cards are power-hungry and spew heat like they're a portal to Inferno!

Ain't that the truth. I've got the 6800 Ultra AGP and I fight the good fight against the overheating monster regularly.  The slightest dust buildup on my (turbo) fans and I've got to air the case.

I use this little benchmark stability test for my video card: http://freestone-group.com/video-card-stability-test.htm

My card benchmarks well into the 1700 range. What they list for the  7800 GTX is 1358-2225. *shrug* I'm quite happy with this until I ditch this motherboard for an SLI setup.  Wink
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angelyne
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #12 on: 2006 March 03, 15:42:46 »
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Quote
Never underestimate the power of paracetamol!  Grin
I'd go for a custom-built rig without second thought! Somehow, "brand" computers ALWAYS manage to squeeze in something sub-par, whether it's an integrated graphic card or a low-capacity hard drive or a cheapo monitor.


Well I do want the integrated graphic card, as I already have one Smiley.  Dell has a good rep, and the components are all pretty good.  And I seem to be getting more for my money.  One thing that has stopped me for far, is that the model I am interested in comes with ony a 300 Watt power supply and that just doesn't cut the mustard.  That means changing the power supply and blah..... I don't feel like it.

So in the hope of working up a little enthusiasm here for a custom built, what sort of motherboard/cpu would you recommend...
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blackjacksims
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #13 on: 2006 March 03, 16:50:23 »
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IMHO, you do not want to purchase or build a system containing a power supply with <400 watts or a motherboard with integrated graphics. Integrated sound is fine, but you should be looking for a PCI express graphics card with 256mb.
I'm sure you can find plenty configuration recomendations on your own but I will give one that I built recently on a budget that provides excellent gameplay for the cost.
If you have a ton of money to throw at buying a computer I would probably refer you to Alienware.
The case, power supply I bought at a local computer store was on sale at a local store for $100. It is an Antec/400 watt.
The following I bought from Newegg:

graphics = VGA XFX|GF 6800GS 256MB
$205.00

mother board = MB EPOX EP-9NPA+Ultra NF4U 939
$105.00

1gb dual channel memory = MEM 512Mx2|OCZ 400
$111.95

hard drive = HD 80G|MAXTOR 7K 8M SATA
$62.00

DVD-ROM LITE ON SOHD-16P9SV
$19.99

CPU AMD 64 |3700+ ATHLON 64 939P
$224.00


Hope the information was helpful.
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smvb
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #14 on: 2006 March 03, 17:05:57 »
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Use a motherboard that supports SLI, and add in another graphics card in the future!

nVidia has updated their chipset to support 16 in both channels of PCI-E, and the motherboards that incorporate this are available now. The requirements for matching cards has relaxed some as well, and I understand they only have to have the same GPU now, instead of exactly the same brand and BIOS, as it was when SLI first came out.

I have one of the older plain SLI motherboards (Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe), have a 6600 card in it, and will add in another one soon. With 2G of memory, and an AMD Athlon 64 3500+ CPU, even the single 6600 runs the Sims 2 smoothly.

As to the difference between a 6800 and a 7800, I have heard it is a large leap, and that there is really a large performance advantage. But there is also a huge price difference as well, and I tend to buy second or third best to save money.

The ATI crossfire option is also available to take advantage of two ATI cards, but I don't now as much about it, and the technology isn't as mature as nVidia's SLI.
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angelyne
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #15 on: 2006 March 03, 17:48:39 »
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Thanks for the info BlackJack and Smvb.  What I meant is that I already have a graphic card (6600) so I didn't want to buy a in-the-box computer that came with a graphic card already.  If I build it myself, that's not a problem obviously.

I've already decided on a Antec Sonata with a power supply of 450W.  Now to decide what I need to put in it ! lol.

The only hard  choice is in selecting a motherboard/cpu,.  First is deciding between AMD or Intel.  After that, picking a CPU and a board.  After that your decisions are pretty much made for you, so the rest of the selection process is smooth.

I have a budget of $1000, so Alienware is out.  It's overated anyway, so I am told.

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Regina
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #16 on: 2006 March 03, 19:11:08 »
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Thanks for the info BlackJack and Smvb.  What I meant is that I already have a graphic card (6600) so I didn't want to buy a in-the-box computer that came with a graphic card already. 

You don't have to worry about a pre-built system and its integrated graphics card.  If you add your own card it simply takes precedence over the on-board and the old one just sits there and does nothing.  My mobo has integrated graphics and sound.  I use the integrated sound just because at the time I couldn't afford another sound card, but have always gone with a custom video card.

Also, you can build a honey of a computer for less than $1,000.  The system I priced out yesterday, not including monitor, was in the neighborhood of $1200, which included a $300 case and a 450-watt power supply.  I haven't decided for sure if I want that case or not, though.  I'm having a time figuring that out, too! LOL

Here's what I picked (all of this off of NewEgg and I'd imagine prices are subject to change):
WinXP Pro OEM: $146.95
ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard  (I'm hoping this is the right board--have to double-check to make sure!) $153.99
AMD Athlon64 3700+ processor $215.00
1 gig of either Corsair or Crucial memory:  about $100
Cooler Master 450-watt power supply $59.99
Geforce 6800 XTreme 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail: $134.99
2 80-gig 7200rpm SATA Maxtor DiamondMax hard-drives

Then of course floppy drive, DVD burner and stuff like that.

I plan on stopping at a local computer shop when I get into town and see how much they'd charge to put it all together for me.  If they'll do it reasonably I'll bring the parts and pieces and they can have all of that kind of fun! LOL

A couple of months ago I posted here asking what would build a good system.  Although much of what was said re-confirmed my own thoughts, I learned a lot, too.  I saved the whole thing in a text document so I'll just copy and paste it here!  I wish I could remember who originally posted it! LOL

------------------------------------------

"Let's talk principles instead of specific components. And let's start with that glamourous item, the power supply. To be blunt, the power supplies that come with most pre-built systems are crap. And if you're going to load up a new or rebuilt machine with a hot new motherboard and CPU, a high-power video controller (even the Radeon 9800 Pro requires its own power connection), a couple fast HDDs, a CD-RW and a DVD burner, that POS 300W power supply isn't going to cut it. Get yourself a quality power supply rated for at least 450W from a reputable manufacturer (PCP&C are the best, but the top Antec models are okay). Pay particular attention to the regulation, and don't settle for anything worse than ±5% on any of the + voltage lines ("rails")--±1% is preferred, and ±3% is acceptable. Inadequate power can lead to graphics corruption, spontaneous reboots, and worse. Power output declines as temperature increases, and the cheap power supplies can't supply their nominal rated power at normal operating temperatures.

Plus, with a quality power supply, you'll get a quality power-supply fan, one that is less likely to fail and cause your PC to catch fire, probably in the middle of night, thus burning down your house. This is no joke, and something for those of you who run your PC 24/7 to consider. I used to know a Web site with photos of burned PCs, but you just can't find anything useful with a Google search anymore. With a new power supply, you can get dedicated SATA power connectors for your new SATA hard drives. 

CPU choice comes down to a price/performance calculation, and whether you want to buy a new motherboard (recommended if you current one is more than a couple years old, since you'll need Socket 939 for AMD or Socket 775 for Intel). AMD vs. Intel?  Take your pick. In benchmark testing, AMD wins some and Intel wins some. AMD is currently the big winner for gaming, while Intel still wins for some high-intensity image and video processing. It once was the case that Athlons were hot and P4s cost more, but these days the Intel chips are hotter and the upper-end Athon 64s cost more than equivalent Intel CPUs. Intel has an advantage by supplying its own chipsets for its CPUs, while AMD relies on third-party suppliers with an uneven track record of stable products. Athon CPUs gain a performance advantage by having the memory controller on the chip, but this restricts you to DDR for now while the Intel CPUs have large on-board L2 caches and can use the most current RAM technology, DDR2 (if the motherboard supports it). This could provide a cost advantage to AMD.

The most value for money in a CPU is usually found a couple steps down from the current top of the line. In this particular instance, you're probably better off not going for that next-higher model for just a few $$$ more--use the money instead for the next-higher model graphics board, which should probably give you a bigger performance boost in TS2. You shouldn't need an after-market heatsink/fan (or water cooling) if you don't plan on overclocking the CPU. For TS2 and most (all??) other games, a dual-core processor is uneccessary as the game won't take advantage of the second core in any significant way, if at all. But if you use some other apps like Photoshop a lot, a dual-core CPU might be worth the premium price--you would need to see which apps you use can take advantage of the dual cores.

Graphics board/video controller:  Get the best you can afford (although a $500 model is probably overkill). Make sure you have room for the cooling aparatus, since the heatsink/fan assembly on most current upper-end models will block the adjacent PCI slot. If you're buying a new motherboard, make sure it has PCI Express instead of AGP, and get a PCI-Express video board (fortunately, the PCI-E boards are slightly less expensive than their AGP counterparts). DON'T buy a reduced-performance OEM or "SE" model to save money--these are usually low-performance versions of the retail boards, made for the big manufacturers like Dell and HP. You are going to want at least 256 MB of DDR3 memory with a 256-bit memory interface. Be sure you will have a spare power connector for the card.

RAM:  1024MB, or more if you can afford it (but only after getting the power supply and video card). Don't get the cheap no-name stuff--there is a difference, so stick with quality brands like Crucial, Corsair, OCX, and Kingston. In the US you can buy Crucial direct at decent prices. You probably don't need the varieties with platinum heat spreaders and LEDS unless you're planning on overclocking your memory.

Hard drives:  If your motherboard has serial ATA connectors (SATA), then by all means get SATA drives, preferably ones that have a native SATA interface and implement command queuing. Many SATA drives on the market, especially older models, are really just parallel ATA drives with a SATA connector added. Two drives are better than one! Given a choice, take two smaller drives over one large drive. Any version of Windows will work better if you can put the paging file at the beginning of a separate physical drive from the one on which Windows is installed. With SATA drives, I believe each motherboard connector will accept only one drive, so multiple drives on a channel isn't an issue (and shouldn't be anyway with a serial device), so you would have each HDD on its own cable, and your optical drives on a separate IDE channel (another advantage of SATA, as many motherboards with plain old IDE connectors provide only two channels). Even if you have parallel drives, try to have each drive on its own cable, and don't an optical drive on the same cable as a hard drive (double up the HDDs on one cable if you have to). Avoid 5400-RPM drives--7200 or 10K (Western Digital's Raptor drives) are the way to go. Be sure to get an on-board cache of at least 8 MB.

Motherboards:  PCI Express instead of AGP, Gigabit Ethernet, Serial ATA, three fan headers (instead of one), and enough PCI slots for everything you might stick in your PC while leaving room for Slot 1 to be blocked by the graphic card's heatsink. RAID is an unnecessary luxury, but having plenty of SATA connectors as well as the standard two IDE connectors is not.

Sound Card:  A SoundBlaster Audigy 2 will still sound better than any onboard audio, and because it has its own DSP, it takes the audio load off the CPU.

If you're going to buy a new case, it's better to have one that's bigger than you need than one that is too small. And a large case should ventilate better. Look for a case that's well-finished inside (no sharp edges), has sufficent drive bays for everything you want to install (including the breakout box for your new high-end SoundBlaster), and offers good air movement. An extra fan in the front and two in the back can be valuable. A 120 mm fan will move the same amount of air as an 80 mm fan but at a lower speed, hence less noise."
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angelyne
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #17 on: 2006 March 03, 21:40:15 »
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Wow Regina awesome info!. 

This is going to help a lot.

Found the thread : http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=2140.0

Thanks Hegelian for the great info!
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Motoki
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #18 on: 2006 March 03, 22:22:48 »
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Dell has a good rep

They do? Where? To who? Their customer service reps in India? Everyone I've ever talked to about them complains about them and try looking them up on resellerratings.com sometime.

There are much, MUCH better places to buy a pre-assembled computer. Monarch Computer is one I reccomend and have purchased from. It's smaller outfit than Dell, but they really know their stuff and you can actually talk to someone in the US. The have an excellent rating on resellerratings.com as well.

For parts I reccomend New Egg.

Dell is the AOL of Computer suppliers.
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Regina
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #19 on: 2006 March 03, 22:30:45 »
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I've known a few RL people who've bought Dell computers.  One of them wasn't too thrilled (this was back in the days of WinME) and I don't know if she ever did get that PC working right.  My sister-in-law and her husband bought a laptop and I think they found it reasonably acceptable.  I'm thinking their desktop, though, was not such a keen setup.  My big issue with a place like Dell is that they're too high priced for what you get AND offer nice payment plans to boot, which means you're paying WAY more than the thing is worth by the time you finish paying for it--that is if you choose to use their payment plans, which my sis-in-law does (she hasn't yet learned about keeping out of debt).  Unless it's an absolute necessity, like a car repair keeping me from where I absolutely need to go, or a very major purchase like a house or car I'd rather do without than go into debt for it.  That's why I've waited so long to build a good computer.  Over the years I've upgraded as I could afford to what I could afford and so far it's fairly kept me going.

Angelyne thanks for digging up the original thread!  Since I'd saved it to my HD it was just easier for me to C&P.  Yep, I'm lazy! Wink
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Re: I'm having a devil of a time trying to decide on a video card!
« Reply #20 on: 2006 March 06, 21:17:31 »
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I went for a Radeon 9800 Pro card.
It kicks some SERIOUS arse although on the downside it has made the computer a deal more noisy with the onboard fan which kicks in about every time you ask the puter to render a jpg image of any sort (cute kittens included)
But with 256 VRAM on-board memory it is worth every last penny of its ludicrous retail price.
Go for it.

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