Crash while saving after playing a while

[jdanddpt]

I've searched many forums and tried many different things but nothing has worked.  I'm out of ideas on this one, and I surrender to greater minds.  Please help.

For months now, (since shortly before BV) my game has been crashing sometimes while saving.  It got slightly worse after BV, and now is pretty bad with FT.  Here are the symptoms:

1) Does not crash during gameplay.  Only crashes while saving.
2) Crash occurs on all lots in my Neighborhood.  Lots range from big and complex to small and simple.  All crash eventually.
3) Neighborhood was fine before.  Been playing it since release, using only hacks from this website and keeping all hacks up to date.
4) Neighborhood is huge: 1437 Sims (including the game-generated NPCs), 432 lots, all expansions installed (none of the Stuff Packs) with their various expansion-hoods.
5) The crash usually only happens after I've been playing for a while (20 mins - 2 hours), with the probability of crashing increasing with the amount of time played.  For example, if I play for 10 mins and save, it will almost never crash.  Play for 10 mins after that and save, it probably won't crash.  Play for 15 more mins and save, it may crash.  Play for 15 more mins and save, it will likely crash, etc.
6) If I "keep it simple" (i.e., do not invite any Sims over and do not visit any community lots) then I can usually play longer.  Once I Throw a Party, go out on a Date, take a Vacation, etc... all bets are off.  This seems to raise the probably of a crash to over 50%.  It only crashes while saving, though. (after the party, date, etc.) Changing seasons also seems to hurt, but I can't tell for sure.
7) Oddly enough, it does not seem to crash during the auto-save that occurs when you visit a community lot.  It never crashes at the "Visiting Downtown" loading screen, for example.  Try to save after the Sims get home -- that's when it crashes.
8 ) The Saving Game box pops up and the Sims2 hourglass spins, like normal.  If it's going to crash, it crashes about a minute into saving.  Sometimes, Windows makes the default illegal operation "gong" sound to let me know the game crashed -- sometimes, it's just silent, and I don't realize it crashed.
9) Either way, Sims2 stays on the screen and sits there, with the Saving Game box still up and the hourglass still spinning (forever).  Sometimes (~20% of the time) the Windows dialog box pops up: "Sims 2 Freetime -- This application has crashed and will now terminate. -- OK"  (or maybe it's "This application has terminated and will now close"... something like that)  The rest of the time, I have to hit alt-tab or ctrl-alt-delete to get to the desktop.  Once at the desktop, that same dialog box will be visible.  Either way, I click OK, and the game closes.  It's frustrating because sometimes it makes no sound and the dialog box doesn't pop up, so I sit there waiting for it to save, not realizing that it crashed 5 minutes ago.  Very frustrating.
10) The crash appears to cause no permanent damage to the lot or neighborhood, but all progress since the last save is lost.

In my opinion, the problem seems to be related to the cumulative amount of graphics or info the game loaded before the save.  So if 15 different Sims visit a lot, the game seems to get overloaded.  It does not crash while playing, but it crashes while saving.  Even if I wait for the visitors to leave before saving, it still crashes.  As if... once the visitors are loaded, the damage is done.  This, to me, suggests very poor programming that contains a memory leak or somehow fails to clean up memory once it's used... combined with very poor programming that causes a crash while saving, if there's insufficient memory.  Of course, I could be way off.

This computer has 2Gig of RAM and an nVidia GeForce 6600GT.  150GB of free disk space.  Out of caution, I always shut down and restart the computer after each crash, before restarting the game.

In all my searching for a solution, I couldn't find anyone else with a problem quite like this one.  I'm actually curious to know if anyone else even has this problem.  If you have a solution, of course that'd be awesome... but this game is so buggy that I don't have high hopes.  Realistically, I'd just like to know how to reduce the probability of a crash to something bearable... like less than 10%.  I don't mind saving every 10 minutes, but I do mind restarting the whole computer every 30 mins and losing 10 mins of progress each time.

Thanks for any help!

[Nec]

Could be a too many memories thing. You might try using the lot debugger (batman box) from here, and when you load your first lot, put it on there if you don't already have one on it. Then select memory...clear gossip from all. That might take a minute if there are a ton of gossip memories, and the game will freeze for a second. Then, on each playable lot memory...nuke attraction markers, then on each sim select memory...clear trash. I have about 900 sims in my hood and I have to clear gossip every few days that I play, and I clear the other memory trash as well about every other lot load. Check also under Fix and Nuke. Chances are if there is an option for something, it needs to be fixed.

[ZephyrZodiac]

You might also try shutting down any services that you don't need and never use - just be careful which ones.  Also, you could try clearing all the trash from your PC as well as from the game.  I use Desktop Maestro which, when I've been on the net or moving files around etc., will find and remove as many as 300 useless shortcuts and other stuff, after which there is a noticeable improvement in my PC's performance.  However, as Nec has already said, the overloaded memories in every sim in your hood can definitely be a problem.  I also check out all the NPCs and townies in SimPE, since not all their trash can be removed with the debugger unless you make them selectable, and remove all their Mystery Sim memories as well as all the met so and so memories that accumulate in their files.  The debugger will remove their gossip memories when you select the Clear Gossip from All option.  Since probably well over 50% of sims in a game can be NPCs and townies, they hoard an awful lot of useless trash once they have been initialised.  You would need to check periodically for memories of met sims creeping back, and also for newly initialised sims getting the mystery sim memories.  While you are cleaning them up, it's worth removing all their furious tokens and attraction markers - the furious tokens of an NPC such as the maid can really slow down your lot.

[jdanddpt]

Could be a too many memories thing. You might try using the lot debugger (batman box) from here, and when you load your first lot, put it on there if you don't already have one on it. Then select memory...clear gossip from all. That might take a minute if there are a ton of gossip memories, and the game will freeze for a second. Then, on each playable lot memory...nuke attraction markers, then on each sim select memory...clear trash. I have about 900 sims in my hood and I have to clear gossip every few days that I play, and I clear the other memory trash as well about every other lot load. Check also under Fix and Nuke. Chances are if there is an option for something, it needs to be fixed.

This sounds very promising, and I'll definitely give it a try.  Gossip has been one of my favorite interactions, literally since the game came out.  I love it for the quick '++' (and it's funny sometimes, to see what they'll Gossip about).  I didn't realize it gunked the game up.  My entire Sim neighborhood has been Gossiping for years... there's probably an ungodly number of these gossip memories.  This could make a huge difference!  Thanks!

One question: What does nuke attraction markers do?

[jdanddpt]

Clear Gossip from All killed 15,725 memories.  We'll see if that helps.

What does Clear Trash do?

[Zazazu]

Clear trash clears duplicate memories and stuff such as "Met X sim". Indispensable if you have a business owner.

My personal monthly computer cleaning consists of doing a checkdisk (no issues yet), virus scan, an adware scan, running a program called CleanUp! (20 times better than Window's default program), then defragging. I do a lot of photo editing and downloading and deleting free games, so my harddrive gets a bit pitted. For good measure, I then delete my CAS thumbnails, etc.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Clearing the gossip from memory doesn't actually seem to stop them gossiping, any more than deleting trash (ie the met x memories) clears the met sim from the sim's phone book - they still know them, but the only memory of them that they keep is the best friend one as that's needed for counting up how many best friends they have.

If you got rid of that many memories, I'm sure your game will be a lot better for it, rather like going through the plumbing in your house with caustic soda!

Zazazu, why not try out the new jv16 Power Tools, you get a month's free use and unlike most trial programs, it cleans up just the same as if you'd bought it - none of that "you can clean up 4 registry errors (which turn out to be those Windows files that simply reappear) and to clean up the other 9,999,996 you need to buy the program!"

[jdanddpt]

Clear trash clears duplicate memories and stuff such as "Met X sim". Indispensable if you have a business owner.

Awesome.  I'll run that, too.  My neighborhood has many businesses and throws many large parties.  Some Sims have pages and pages of "Met X Sim" in their memories.  This should help a lot.  Thanks.

What does "Nuke Attraction Markers" do?

[gynarchy]

Attraction markers are what makes Sims fart hearts towards each other. They can be passed along just like gossip and possibly become corrupted.

[jdanddpt]

I've been going lot by lot, Clearing Trash.  It's slow going.  Killed maybe 10,000 objects so far (plus the 15,000 from Clearing Gossip).

Looking at my Sims' memories, I see another source of massive memory spam... Family Reunions.  Pages and pages of "Had a Family Reunion" on many of my Sims.  It's due to a tangled web of a few very large, multi-generational families in the neighborhood, combined with lots of House Parties.  As a result, seemingly every party is a "Family Reunion."

Comparing the number of "Met X Sim" memories to the number of "Had a Family Reunion" memories, I'd say there are probably 15,000+ Family Reunion memories in the whole neighborhood. 

Are those important for anything?  And, if not, is there any way to easily mass-delete them?  And is there a way to prevent new ones from being created?

[talysman]

I've been going lot by lot, Clearing Trash.  It's slow going.  Killed maybe 10,000 objects so far (plus the 15,000 from Clearing Gossip).

Looking at my Sims' memories, I see another source of massive memory spam... Family Reunions.  Pages and pages of "Had a Family Reunion" on many of my Sims.  It's due to a tangled web of a few very large, multi-generational families in the neighborhood, combined with lots of House Parties.  As a result, seemingly every party is a "Family Reunion."

Comparing the number of "Met X Sim" memories to the number of "Had a Family Reunion" memories, I'd say there are probably 15,000+ Family Reunion memories in the whole neighborhood. 

Are those important for anything?  And, if not, is there any way to easily mass-delete them?  And is there a way to prevent new ones from being created?

Don't know the answers to most of those questions, but here's a (partial) answer to the last: there's a no reunion memory hack, but I only see it in the Nightlife-compatible directory, not the others. Don't know if it's still compatible, but you could try it.

[ZephyrZodiac]

I think that's part of the trash that gets cleaned up, anyway I don't have that hack in any more, and I'm only running up to Seasons.  Saying that, I haven't used the clean up trash option in this game, do it manually in SimPE as there are one or two memories I want to keep for the moment, and I haven't seen the family reunion one in a long time.  Mind you, my sims at present aren't throwing many parties....I tend to use the groups option for family members and I have a feeling this doesn't throw up that memory.

However, since JM's hack is, you say, only in the NL folder and nothing later, it may be one of the few things Maxis cleaned up.......

[jdanddpt]

I still see the Family Reunion memory spam on my Sims even after Clearing Trash, so the lot debugger's Clear Trash apparently doesn't touch them.

I'll look into which Sims have the spam... it might be my really "old" Sims that were alive pre-NL.  If so, then maybe the issue was fixed post-NL.  If so, then it's probably not as bad as I thought.  My estimate of 15,000 Family Reunion memories was based on what I saw on the first batch of Sims that I used Clear Trash on, and I specifically targetted my "oldest" Sims first, for maximum effect.  Some of them date back to pre-Uni days.

So far my record for "Clear Trash" is 442 objects cleared on one guy.  Awesome!  He is a Romance/party animal, spun off from a generation of my Legacy that had 11 children, who attended Uni, threw tons of parties, built the ultimate party palace, and is still partying at almost 90 years old... I hope he croaks in the hot tub with 3 colllege girls... that would be perfect.  Anyway...

Second place goes to my current Legacy heir, who had 380-something objects cleared.  She's popular, too.

I love this tool.  After clearing Gossip and a few thousand Trash, I played a business lot for ~2 hours without crashing.  So far, so good!

[ZephyrZodiac]

I think you're right, they must be old memories - JM used to have a noreunionspam hack, but it was discontinued way back, so obviously it was no longer needed, but of course, if you didn't have it in your game when it was needed, you would have got the spam.  I think in your case it would be worth going through every set of memories in SimPE to see what else has been left behind from the early days!  I appreciate it would be a mammoth undertaking if you did it all at once, but provided you keep getting rid of gossip on a regular basis it should only be a case of, ok, I've played family a, b and c, so now I'll just check that everything in their memories is ok.

Also worth checking manually in sim relations for relationships with unmet sims, and in particular relationships with simself.  These can be deleted in Sim Relations, but you need to save for them to truly be gone, and then you need to check the Relations panel in Sim Description for those relationships and make sure you set them to unrelated by rightclicking on them and checking the unrelated option.  Then commit, and when you've done that for each one, (I use the option at the top of the list so that all the relationships show in one fell swoop) click that option to reload, and those relationships should no longer be visible in the related list.  Once you have saved that, those relationships should only return if your sim is in contact with them again (usually happens when they are walking by on another lot), although relationships with self sometimes seem to return when they have a birthday.  Don't bother, though, about NPCs, those relationships will keep returning, so there's no point in getting rid of them. 

Also, check for any relationships with unknowns, these should also be cleared out. 

In a hood with only about 100 playables, I've managed to get rid of up to 1,000 useless relationships this way, and in a hood the size of yours it just adds to the bloat.  (Only clear out those relationships which are clearly shown as unknown to each other and make sure you get both - if one of them is shown as known, then you're probably best leaving it in, as sometimes that sim will phone your sim and it can be a way of adding to your sim's list of friends.  Quite often it happens when they are chatting online, you find they have an "unknown" relationship with other sims that were online at the time, but they won't be in their phone-book, so to my mind at least they are totally useless.

[Nec]

Glad to hear it seems to be helping

[ZephyrZodiac]

Also worth checking to see how many bartenders and drivers and some other NPCs you have, there should really only be three of each sort, and if you have dozens of any of them, you must have been playing without Pescado's antredundancy hack which stops this from happening.  Put antiredundancy in if you haven't already, then search out the Deleted2 Electric Boogaloo thread for a tutorial on how to use the debugger to get rid of the surplus.  There are already far more NPCs in the game than are actually needed, and a couple of hundred bar-tenders is just ludicrous, the game left to itself will generate a new one each time you visit a comm lot with a bar.  At around 350 kb for each one, that's a lot of bloat.

[Kyna]

Also worth checking to see how many bartenders and drivers and some other NPCs you have, there should really only be three of each sort, and if you have dozens of any of them, you must have been playing without Pescado's antredundancy hack which stops this from happening.  Put antiredundancy in if you haven't already, then search out the Deleted2 Electric Boogaloo thread for a tutorial on how to use the debugger to get rid of the surplus.  There are already far more NPCs in the game than are actually needed, and a couple of hundred bar-tenders is just ludicrous, the game left to itself will generate a new one each time you visit a comm lot with a bar.  At around 350 kb for each one, that's a lot of bloat.

That bug was fixed in a patch many EPs ago.  They then repeated the bug in BV - but that was also fixed in a patch.

[ZephyrZodiac]

But it didn't eradicate the ones that were already spawned.  And if the game has been going for some time, it seemed to me it was probably being played before the patch that fixed it was available.

[Kyna]

The OP said:

Neighborhood was fine before.  Been playing it since release, using only hacks from this website and keeping all hacks up to date.

So they've been using anti-redundancy, and therefore wouldn't have all the excess NPCs.

[ZephyrZodiac]

True, but I can't remember whether anti-redundancy was available for Uni when it first came out, and I think that was when the spawning of bartenders began.  I seem to remember there being a specific bartender hack at first.  (However, at my age, I will admit that my memory does sometimes play tricks on me.)

[Sivany]

I think you're right, they must be old memories - JM used to have a noreunionspam hack, but it was discontinued way back, so obviously it was no longer needed, but of course, if you didn't have it in your game when it was needed, you would have got the spam.  I think in your case it would be worth going through every set of memories in SimPE to see what else has been left behind from the early days!  I appreciate it would be a mammoth undertaking if you did it all at once, but provided you keep getting rid of gossip on a regular basis it should only be a case of, ok, I've played family a, b and c, so now I'll just check that everything in their memories is ok.

I can highly recommend doing this having done it myself with my extremely old neighbourhood that I've played since base game. I deleted tons of memories and it's so nice to be scrolling through those sim's memories in game and not have to put up with two pages just of that stupid reunion thing. Now it's fixed though I do like seeing the single memory that appears after a huge family party since I think it is a worthwhile memory, unlike some of them ("Today I shooed a stray cat out of my garden, I'm going to remember it forever and ever! It was super cool!!!!")