How to add new College, Downtown, Shopping District templates

[Marvin Kosh]

I don't know a whole lot about how the game's user interface works, but I'm guessing that in Pets and above something was 'fixed' so that when there is a button control displayed in the listbox the text listing is suppressed or hidden.  When the button isn't present (either because it's been taken out by the hack, or by the game itself when the supplied Downtown or Bluewater has been installed) the text listing is not suppressed or hidden.

As far as I can tell there's nothing wrong with Sedona, just the in-game interface for installing any template other than Bluewater.

[Madame Mim]

The 'original' Sedona has never stopped working in my game. I installed it at the same time (or maybe just before) I put in no Bluewater Button and I've never had a problem finding it. Maybe you just need to specify the use of Marvin's no Button mods to anyone who wants to use alternative shopping (etc) templates.

[cwykes]

Well that's a huge, great DUH!     My tester back when Pets came out was fairly awesome, so I believed it when they told me "Pets broke the counter".  I was a bit reluctant to go the hack route as it would put off friends on other boards who are part of the "I don't play with hacks" brigade and because I thought the hack was probably going to need updating every time a new EP came out which people who don't normally use hacks never think to do.  Thinking about it, I guess it probably won't need updating as there's no reasong to update that bit of code in higher EPs.  Any comment?

Swapping Bluewater with Sedona is always going to work, but it's a pain - I should probably make a B002 version of Sedona and specify that it only works with Marvin's hack.

I'm working on another downtown with Lechapeau - Your new hack will let us to number that D002.  (edited for stupidity)

[Marvin Kosh]

Like I said, the user interface changed somewhat with Pets but I'm assuming that it hasn't been altered by Seasons or BV.  These hacks should in theory be EP-proof and not need updating, although if I can figure out how to make the list start at the top instead of in the middle that would be an added bonus.

The initial problem with creating UI overrides was actually figuring out which UI script to change.  There's a lot to search but not much in the way of comments (like 'This is the UI Script which pops up the interface which lets you create a new Subhood') to help locate them.  Now that I know the instance number and the internal reference of the button image, I could re-create them from scratch if I had to.

[Inge]

One thing I am not entirely clear on from reading this thread is what to do as I have a completely new .SC4  I want to use as a downtown template.  Do I have start my new hood, add the standard Downtown, and then make a second downtown from my new terrain?  That will then result in a load of maxis lots cluttering up the lots folder.   As far as I can tell I am unable to add a custom downtown before adding the standard one.

[cwykes]

I don't quite understand what you mean, please forgive ....

If you're just going to use an empty Sc4 terrain as a Downtown, why bother to turn it into a default 'hood?  Surely, you can just click to add a custom downtown instead of 'Downtown' and choose that SC4 terrain.  If you've got 'notownieregen' hacks and the empty Downtown template from the Peasantry thread on 'clean templates', you won't get any maxis stuff dumped into your game. 

If you're planning on turning that Sc4 terrain into an occupied downtown with your own townies and lots, then it's worth making a template out of it.  The key point is to start from a normal neighbourhood, then clean it up in SimPE, add your own sims and lots, do a second clean up to eliminate the grim reaper etc, re-categorise it as a downtown and then try it out.    Once you've made it, your alternative default Downtown sits in your neighborhoodtemplate folder alongside the maxis Downtown template, so you'lll have D001 and D002 in the same way as you have U001, U002 and U003. You need Marvin's hacks to get those large Maxis buttons that stop you selecting your alternative hood.  Once you have that hack, you can see all the defaults instead of just that big button.

You can open up the maxis template in simPe if you want to look at the files.  Or try my Sedona as that's the only non-maxis defaI'm sorry, but my pages are out of date.  I'm working on an update at the moment.
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/cwykes/Sedona/sedonapage.html
 

[Inge]

According to Marvin's instructions here: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,3996.msg113629.html#msg113629 it seems to be saying if you want it to be a uni, for example, you have to build it as a uni in the first place - as a subhood to the one you are using as your "workshop".  Am I not reading that right?

Yes I want it as a template as it is going to be full of lots that I want to save with the template to use more than once and maybe share (if it turns out any good).

[Inge]

Sorry for the double post but if I edit the previous post a day later no one will read the change!

re-categorise it as a downtown

So you're recommending I start making my custom downtown as the *base* suburb of a new hood, and recategorise it as downtown when I have finished?  How is that done?  Is that simply a case of renaming the files with the right prefixes and placing in the right templates folder?

[cwykes]

Making it as a main hood and converting it in SimPE is the way I made Sedona.  No-one has managed to convert a sub-hood into a default that I know of.  My guess is that a sub-hood just isn't complete enough to become a template.  Well either that or sub-hood data is differently organised in some key way. You're more likely than me to figure out what's missing or different. 

Motoki helped me test out making a uni in the days when I didn't have uni.  We didn't work the thing up properly, but just tested that it was feasible.  I made a Uni, like I made Sedona and Motoki said it showed up in his game with dorms and an SS lot - he didn't find anything bizarre, but it wasn't a long test!  I don't remember all the details, but I know I made normal residential lots and converted them to dorms in SimPE.  I think the SS lot was converted from a community lot.  I made townies using your shrub and converted them to dormies in SimPE - I think I started with adults rather than teens, but honestly I can't be sure - it was a long time ago.  I mean to make one sometime, but I'm happy doing other things for now.

One important thing I should post here is that a uni made in a BV game cannot be used by anyone who doesn't have BV and higher.   If you want a Uni that anyone with Uni can install, you have to make it in a Uni only game - no higher EPs.  You can use Numenor's base game starter or any game starter to do that.  This is partly why Lechapeau and I stalled on our Downtown - we wanted to make one that anyone with NL could use and we couldn't use the lots I'd made in Seasons (obvious really), but next we hit practical problems installing lots into BGS games.  Numenor has now added extra functionality to get round CI's wayward behaviour, but we haven't moved on with the project.  It's not abandoned; just stalled.

[Inge]

I see.  So I really need to ignore the part of Marvin's tutorial where he shows the files being selected as being the subhood files?  I didn't think it looked possible personally, for the reasons I gave, but I suppose it must have worked for him at some time!

[cwykes]

I was never sure that he actually did get it to work from a sub-hood.  The original posts were along the lines of "I'm trying to do this..." and even when he did the post with all the screenies, it still seemed to me to be "I think you do it like this....".  The only way I got it to work was from a main 'hood template.

I found a few notes on the uni I made for that feasibility test confirming what I said before.  Apparently I converted teens and adults to YAs in simPE and didn't get any feedback on which was right.  Please post if you work it out. 

[lechapeau]

One important thing I should post here is that a uni made in a BV game cannot be used by anyone who doesn't have BV and higher.   If you want a Uni that anyone with Uni can install, you have to make it in a Uni only game - no higher EPs.  You can use Numenor's base game starter or any game starter to do that.  This is partly why Lechapeau and I stalled on our Downtown - we wanted to make one that anyone with NL could use and we couldn't use the lots I'd made in Seasons (obvious really), but next we hit practical problems installing lots into BGS games.  Numenor has now added extra functionality to get round CI's wayward behaviour, but we haven't moved on with the project.  It's not abandoned; just stalled.

cwykes, if you want to make our hood a NL/Seasons hood that's fine with me whenever you're ready, especially as your planned story needed that pack.

I've edited the rest out, I thought I'd found a problem in making sub hoods with later EP's but after looking into it I've found that's not the case.

[Marvin Kosh]

I had a few teething problems with trying to create a template at first, that was all.  Given that I was working without any kind of guide to help me, it was inevitable that it didn't work first time around.

There's really no difference if you create a template from a main hood or from a sub-hood, either approach is fine as long as the lot zoning is correct for the purpose you're intending.  The sub-hood approach is quicker though if you're merely intending to edit one of the Maxis-supplied universities to make a new template, which is what I did.  The main hood approach has the advantage that less file renaming is needed.

[cwykes]

So your own extra templates are edited versions of the maxis ones?  Could you tell us a bit more about what you can and can't do if you do it that way? I mean, you can't just substitute character and lot files from another hood because it's all got to be connected correctly in the neighborhoodmanager.package file and you have to be careful editing that to avoid potential BFBVFS.  Can you set up family relationships, make townies & special NPCs etc or did you have to settle for a 'lot-only' template on a new map and let the game generate characters?

This is how it works for converting a normal hood to a template sub-hood:-
1. Make a normal hood, set up all the lots, playables, townies, family trees, relationships, memories etc just the way you want them.  Making special characters like profs is untested, prob has to be done in game not with simPE.
2. Edit the character files, relationships and 'hood memory in SimPE to clean out all refs to the grim reaper et al   
3. Convert existing lots to special lots by changing lot types in SimPE  (dorms should be made as residential and SS as community - DK about greek houses)
4. Change the hood type to the required sub-hood type in SimPE.
5. Rename the hood folder and give the files the right prefix.

We'd still have teething troubles on this making a Uni as I haven't tested out the special uni features

I put up a new version of Sedona using your hack to get rid of the button.  I put the hack file in the download to make life easier for downloaders.  If that's not a good idea, let me know please!

[Marvin Kosh]

If it makes life easier for downloaders, I can't say I mind.

I went for a lot-only approach originally because I just wanted a blank template to use with an existing hood.  Including characters isn't a problem, I don't think, because The Sims 2 already brings in characters when you install one of the supplied downtown, university or shopping district templates.  It's not so much substituting character and lot files from another hood, as it is importing additional content - except that instead of plunking down one lot at a time it does everything in one go.  If you think about it, the Sims 2 team have to do much the same thing as we're doing in order to put their templates on an expansion disc.

When I've got some time to fire up The Sims I'll try and do a bit more practical testing along these lines.

[cwykes]

Thanks for confirming that your templates are lot only.   

I don't think you're going to be able to add sims without making the hood in game the way I made Sedona.  Any kind of substitution of character files into an existing template folder isn't going to create the right info about their relationships etc in the template neighbourhood.package file.  My best guess is that Eaxis do make a normal hood, the way I did, but have an better process for turning it into a template. 

[Marvin Kosh]

The neighbourhood.package file stores Sim data, as well as information on the lots in the main hood, and the university package file contains only the information on the university lots.  A lot-only template doesn't need the Sim data or the information on an empty main hood, I would guess.

I got around to doing the testing I said I would do.  Turning an inhabited university into a template and then adding the university  template to another new neighbourhood worked just great, except that I ended up with the wrong terrain and had to re-plop all the buildings.  When I loaded up the one inhabited dorm it was almost the same as when I'd saved it - the cafeteria worker wasn't there, and shortly after a different cafeteria worker showed up.  I was actually expecting it to explode on loading or something.

I created a blank base neighbourhood and added a new custom university with five lots total.  I added four students to the university, moved them into a dorm, and after letting them putz about under Free Will for a while, I assigned them a room each and saved the lot.  Then I exited TS2, copied the whole neighbourhood to the Uni templates folder, and opened it in SimPE for editing.  I exported the university data and then imported it into the main neighbourhood file.  Which is okay, since there aren't any lots in the base neighbourhood and there isn't any Sim data in the unversity file.  Obviously, the terrain information from the university either didn't take or I screwed that up somehow.

After a bit more work in SimPE I was able to fix the terrain on the template so that everything showed up properly when using it to create a new university.  Hooray!

[cwykes]

Brilliant stuff!  So you can do it either way.  Your method probably needs greater tech skills - I've never exported/imported stuff in SimPE.  On the other hand you can get all the dorms, greek houses etc set up with no problem which is a big advantage. You'd want to clean out the grim reaper et al either way.  I do feel more comfortable with my method because all the data stays connected in the original way - you don't have to move data around. 

If you made the terrain the same in the main hood as the uni, would that help?

[Marvin Kosh]

The export-import bit really isn't exactly difficult.  What I learned from messing up the terrain is to use the Replace function from the context menu so that I'm definitely overwriting what was there originally.  But I suppose using the same terrain tempate would work just as well.  Now that I have the means to create a populated college I'm looking forward to making a much more involved and complete template.

[cwykes]

When it's done, do think about putting it up for download.  It would be nice to have another Uni out there to use. I was hoping Sedona would prove the concept and lead to more template hoods being built.... hasn't happened though.