More Awesome Than You!

I know I posted a question-type thread recently... but folks here are helpful as well as prompt... so....
I think it is really, really stupid that a simple 'charm' interaction causes a married sim to have the 'had an affair' memory. In RL, flirting is just another social interaction, if it were harmless and your spouse isn't watching :D
ATM when this occurs in my game I just edit it with SimPE, but this is tedious and irritating, not to mention dangerous (right...?).
Does anyone else find this annoying, or maybe how do you all cope with it?

In Simworld, it's not quite as "harmless", unfortunately, since flirt = instant crush/love. It also brings up the obvious question of at what point something becomes an affair.

How do I cope? I don't let my committed Sims flirt with anyone I don't want them romantically involved with. If they do it when I'm not looking, they just have to live with it.

Well, noinstantlove stopped that particular nonsense. I just wish the 'affair' memory could be held off until the first time kiss, since that would be over the line.

Noinstantlove doesn't entirely eliminate the possibility of it, though. The affair memory is tricky because of where it's calculated, and the problem with basing it on kiss is because it is possible for a sim to woohoo without ever performing a kiss move. Tying it to first kiss OR first woohoo, that's a possibility to explore, though.

I like that idea.  I'm sure plenty of people would too.  This is probably something that peeps have been wanting for ages now.

Although... I suppose you could technically have an emotional affair without it necessarily being sexual or even physical...  and how would you handle sims who manage to actually fall in love without Ever kissing or Ever woohooing?  Well, first of all, is it even possible for that to happen?  Can sims fall in love by just flirts and romantic hugs alone?  And if so... do you consider that an affair, even if they haven't kissed or woohoo'd yet?  I think I would.  I mean, if Sim A has some form of committed relationship with Sim B, and then Sim A falls in love with Sim C and vice versa (Sim C with Sim A), I would still consider that an affair of sorts, even if they haven't kissed or woohoo'd. :-\

Ste

Fortunately, there's a memory for that, too. Besides, left to themselves, the latter quickly leads to the former.

well, would not the most realistic option be to make it independent for each sim? Like jelousy with ACR?
There might be sims who consider flirting an affair, and feel guilty/betrayed. And other that have an open ralitionship an don´t even care if the husband woohoos the whole town. Is it an affair if the partner knows and don´t cares? swinger club or something ;-)

Yes, it's possible for sims to fall in love without kissing.  One of my teens fell in love just from holding hands.  It was adorable, but obvioulsy would have to be taken into account if making a hack.

All flirt actions are equally able to cause crush/love, and by default it automatically happens if you take any romantic action at 70 STR/LTR respectively. Although I really am baffled by how hand-holding qualifies as flirting. Or really, most of sim behavior as flirting.

"In RL, flirting is just another social interaction, if it were harmless and your spouse isn't watching :D"

In RL, it would depend on what the intention of the flirter is.  For Sim A and B who are in a committed relationship, for Sim A to go "flirt" with Sim C, what is your intention for Sim A as to why you directed it?  Do you want it to lead to something more?  If not, why would you do it?  In RL, this is called "leading someone on."  If you don't want the memory, just don't do it, unless you intend to follow it up with more romantic interactions.  There are plenty of other social interactions Sims can do (admire, play, dance, hug, dirty joke, dine out, etc.) to show emotional interest without triggering a crush/love relationship.

Now, what I consider "way out" is when two Sims who just met will lock lips in a good-bye kiss when they part company.  This doesn't happen in RL!  Honestly, I had a pair who's relationship was at 3/0, do the moaning kiss good-bye!  What gives?  This same pair would shoo the other off if the suggestion of playing red hands were introduced, but gimme a lip smacker to send me off?  You bet!  I have also had the greeting "smooch" kiss counted as a "kissed so&so for the first time" memory.  Don't know if that's a glitch, 'cause it doesn't always occur.

Just want to say I have the Romance Mod and No Random Flirt Wants installed.  They are just great and add much more realism to the game.  I love seeing my engaged and married couples nix any flirting that comes their way so I don't have to worry about dealing with unwanted love/crushes popping up all over.  I had one Sim that I directed to flirt (unsuccessfully) with a married Sim lady three times when I was testing this Mod in my game.  Their relationship was at 100/83.  He was so frustrated, that he next rolled a want to buy a love potion!  Ha ha!

I know a lot of people think Dr. Phil is a hack but I believe he has said a few gems of wisdom.  If you feel like you cannot flirt with someone else in front of your partner then you shouldn't be doing it.

I understand getting the affair memory if your playable initiates the flirting action, directed or not. However, getting the memory when a townie does it? Huh-what? It isn't Francis's problem that Eva Cooper, who he's just hung out with a couple times, grabs him to make out with him.

Actually, it is his fault. Sims may reject or accept any flirt initiated by another Sim. If they accept the flirt, then they are guilty. Rejected flirts don't cause the cheat memory.

Trick being, by default, sims basically never reject anything, because the reject point is so far below the initiation point that only drama professors and other sims which ignore checks would ever pull one that results in rejection. Romance mod fixes this.

Ooooh, so that's why I need Romance mod. K, you've convinced me.

Rejection of flirts is why the Romance Mod is my second-favorite hack.  After the Phone hack, of course.  Without it, there's no enforcement at all of sexual orientation, and your Sims will happily accept flirts from professors of the inappropriate gender (whatever that may be), and usually fall in love since you've been schmoozing them for grades.

 - Gus

Hm, that reminds me that I'm going to need something to set sexual orientation. Of course, I'm still so busy sorting through physical custom content that I haven't actually made much attempt to add hacks back in, aside from FFS ones.

ACR lets you set sexual orientation....you can set what you want, or make it randomize. I randomize my non-heirs. Of course, it adds all the other fun of the hack, which you may or may not want.

Or you just let him/her do the "check sim out" on various sims of the preferred gender. It took me only two or three guys in downtown to prepare Don Lothario for one of my gay romance sims (IIRC, his preference was f/m 17/0 before that) ;D.

Lizzlove has a gender preference kite (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=82198) at MTS2.  You can set your sims to gay, straight or bi.  I had that in my game for a while, before I got ACR.

Yeah, as much fun as ACR sounds (I'll probably create a separate user account to play with it someday), I don't want it in my normal game, and I don't want to have to switch it in and out all the time either.

Kyna, that's EXACTLY the kind of thing I was hoping for. I think I might have seen it before, but forgot about it because I wasn't using anything at the time that it would matter for.

But some people are just flirty.
I have friends who flirt with everyone and everything, (gender indifferent) because that's just their personality, but it isn't sexual (to them) and they do so regardless of a spouse/partner's presence. 
In the game, I could see that translating to crushes from others, but it shouldn't for them.

In game, I feel 'Affair' should happen only after a kiss or woohoo because I can't imagine many partners finding that acceptable. If there were a way to define it, only after a real kiss, not a peck, which some people do to acquaintances and strangers. (I wish there was a 'family kiss' for non-family, heh heh)
Perhaps it should also be triggered by love, but I don't think crush should do it as faithful committed people can have crushes on others without cheating. (you're married, not buried and if you don't act on it, you haven't cheated)

Again, that's the difference between the real world and the sims' world.

People IRL can flirt without meaning anything more by it, but in the game such interactions are very clearly meant as a stepping stone to a more intimate relationship.  The real life equivalent of light flirting would be a conversation topic somewhere in the chat menu, not something meant to welcome a crush/love status and everything meant from there.

The ultimate problem is that the romance engine in this game sucks, no two ways about it.  Romancemod and noinstantlove help, as does ACR if that's the mood you're going for, but in the end you have to accept that there are ways that the reality for sims is fundamentally different from that for people.  Cleaning up the end results without cleaning up the causal factors would probably just cause more oddities than the current system does.

I don't know if any of the romance mods do this, but I think it would be swell if there were different levels of affairs.  I mean, I understand people wanting some of their sims to have open relationships, but if we are going for realism here, I would personally be pretty upset if I saw my boyfriend "Goose" or "Caress" some other girl- though not nearly as upset if he had actually done "WooHoo" with her.  So, maybe have the Flirt interactions still give the cheating memory (because they can cause crush/love), but let the cheated-on sim's furious state not last as long as it would in the case of a WooHoo-type of affair, and let the relationship damage be much less, um, damaging- enough to need some groveling, but not enough to knock the sim out of love with their spouse. 

I've noticed recently that I've had a helluva time getting two sims to fall for each other.  This is the most extreme example: I wanted to hook my gen 1 challenge sim up with this townie.  They flirted, woohooed via ACR, kissed, went on a date, etc.  Pretty soon they were 100/100, with one lightning bolt.  He was in love with her, but she hadn't even developed a crush on him.  I had her Propose/Move-in and made him start flirting with her constantly.  Still nothing.  I had her propose engagement, and he of course said yes.  She STILL didn't have a crush on him.  She finally fell in love with him UNDER THE WEDDING ARCH after they got married!  Wtf?  Is noinstantlove causing this?

Yup.
Use a love potion!

I'm feeling particularly clueless atm...
What does ACR stand for ???

Thank you!

Autonomous Casual Romance (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,4691.0.html) by TwoJeffs

Ah, okay...this explains why I wasn't so very familiour with it as I run the base game only. I do now recall reading over this a while back and grumbling over my limitations, again :) Thanks again, vilia

It all depends on how you view the word "affair". In American dictionaries, it appears to be any "short-lived, amorous relationship", whereas in UK dictionaries, it's a sexual liaison, usually where one or more parties is married.  Therefore, to me, an affair has to involve sex, because that's the way I've always seen it.  That's why the ONLY interaction in TS2 that can be classed as an affair is woo-hoo, as far as I'm concerned.  And this is the one interaction that doesn't generate an affair memory!  That's why I use Squinge's mod to nuke all the memories and add them manually when woo-hoo occurs.  The same goes for the term 'unfaithful', incidentally.  That has to involve sex, too.  They are basically synonymous in terms of the way I have been brought up to see them.

Of course, you can betray your partner by a kiss or whatever, but that's something entirely different.  Betrayal and affair aren't synonymous, at least not where I come from.

   Okay, since we're on the topic of amorous interactions that don't make sense,  how about that massive make-out kiss they do at 'Greeting' and the 'Say Goodbye' kiss?  All that wasted kissing and no change to their relationship.    lol

Those don't change their relationship? I have had several Sims receive their first kiss from both the greet and goodbye type kisses. So they do something. I never checked to see if it changed their STR score though.

    Mmnnn, strange that i've never seen the 'first kiss' happen that way.  I will start paying closer attention.

Indeed, a first kiss can happen that way, but they most certainly don't gain relationship points of any kind from it.

I'm not sure the greeting/goodby kisses count, but the kiss at the end of a good date does count./me must also start paying attention

    Well, finally got the opportunity to closely watch a new romance.  A newly transitioned Fam Teen in my challenge, used TJ's crystal ball to summon over a suitable match (this is in my Royal Challenge, so not every match is suitable).  2 Bolt attraction, they started out with no relationship to each other.  Using the Macro/Socialize/Romatic got them to 100/3 and they are at Crush stage.  At that point, i had him say goodnight to her, they kissed goodbye (the First Kiss was locked in) but that kiss did not fulfill the first kiss want.  Had him call her back immediately but unfortunately he only gave her a hug as a greeting.  Ended up doing the First Kiss manually.  I've got more teens coming up so i'll keep watching.

I used to have teen-adult attraction fix in my game, but not any hack to allow romantic interactions between adults and teens.  The attraction fix caused the gypsy to hook my teens up with adults, who they would have a perfectly fine dream date with (given some work) even though there were no available romantic interactions.
On at least one occasion I had a teen hooked up with a proffessor, first kiss want locked, no romance possible, but first kiss was fulfilled with the "end of date kiss".  I remember because I was surprised, since there technically should be no way he should be allowed to kiss her.

I'm really amused now by the idea of the squeaky clean teen-adult dates, Gwill. I may have to put that particular mod in my own game, for realism. (Haven't made up my mind yet how much actual teen-adult interaction I want -- I'll probably let storyline dictate.)

In the spring when Sims roll up the want to "kiss" (not any specific Sim) then this is being satisfied when a friend comes over and they greet each other with the Euro kiss. Even platonic kisses are counting to fulfill that want.

As far as my earlier statement about first kisses, maybe it was "first kiss with so-and-so" rather than just "first kiss" that was satisfied. I'll have to watch closer too. But I know for sure that they have received the actual "first kiss" memories from the goodbye at the end of the date kiss.

This post is so inaccurate that there's no point in me even trying to nitpick it. Better to just delete it before the OP tries to take your advice.

EDIT: For those of us who seem to need cat macros for everything, what I'm trying to say is:
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b354/Venusy/offmylawnkittah.jpg)

For the curious:

That little rant reminds me a lot of this page:
http://www.madcowtouristinfo.com/
(It's not a joke page, it's written by a genuine schizophrenic.)

What... the...


By the way, she's talking about Prince William.

I do not know if this is more frightening or more sad. This person can think and put together coherent sentences, but they do not give information, only weirdness.

That kid has issues.  ??? There are some self-righteous replies here, although I won't point. I'm talking about The Sims, and they bring in real life stories. I asked about this because the flirt interactions are just so tame, and shouldn't cause an affair. The only reason it even annoys me is that my Headmaster is a Romance sim and for some strange sadorandom reason, points go up when the lady of the house flirts with him. I even checked his want panel. Things like 'charm' and 'serenade' are flirts, but not full-blown affairs! Besides, general gameplay suggests that when players do want sims to have affairs, they go the whole way and not stop at flirt.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, oh yesensible MATY-landers.

Well, duh!

A shiny addressing this issue is currently in testing and will be released after the Fat Gwilly One looks at it.

Fat Gwilly one at your service.

OK MissBree, let's go through all the errors in your post in detail.
Sims can not be run over by any vehicle. Nightlife is EP3. If you can get the taxi-driver to have kids, something is bugged in your game, or you are a puppy killer. You appear to have a malfunction in your thesaurus.
While this would work (assuming you mean doing it in SimPE), you would have to erase the memory from both Sims, or you end up with more screwed memories than your average Maxis pre-built family. Sims cannot learn from their mistakes. Whether they burn food or not is dependent on cooking skill, and cannot be influenced by memory. Sims cannot differentiate between recolours of an object, so different colours of fire alarms would have no effect on room score.

You can't delete memories via moveobjects on.
Given that all the advice in your post is wrong, with the exception of brainwashing in SimPE, I doubt that you have been of priceless (or any) help to Mens Mortuus. Don't sign your posts.

Baaaaa, Pescado  :) Let's just hope MissBree doesn't wander into that thread as well.

   What, go read a book?...try Dick and Jane...