More Awesome Than You!

See exactly how much you can extract from life on the frontier, circa 1840 or so.  For obvious reasons, this challenge requires Seasons.

Start with a CAS adult.  You may use hacks to give your Sim the benefits of a college education, i.e. 2 extra want slots and 2 locks, but you must start with no contacts, let alone friends, and no skills.  Move them in to any suitable lot by themselves.

You can't get a job.
The only permitted way to make money is to sell produce.  You can paint if you like, but you must hang the paintings rather than sell them.
It's 1840.  You don't have electricity.  You may not purchase anything that would use electricity except a refrigerator.  In particular, you may not purchase a phone, fire detector, or electronic entertainment.
You can purchase one of the cheapest refrigerators available.  We're rationalizing it as the root cellar and initial pioneer supplies.  You may never replace it.  All additional food must be grown on the lot.
You don't have running water.  You can't purchase showers or sinks, and the only tub you can purchase is the wooden one.
You may only purchase the cheapest toilet.  If there was a pit toilet mesh out there, we'd use that.  The toilet must reside in an outhouse, separate from the main house.
Stoves are permitted, so long as they aren't visibly electric.  If you have a wood stove object - I'm not sure there is such a thing - you must use that instead of gas stoves.
You may not visit a community lot.
You may not use aspiration rewards.
You can use the Wishing Well if you somehow manage to obtain it.  Good luck if you can't call the Garden Society at will.
You may not build a greenhouse, buy sprinklers, or ladybug houses.
You can't spray, either.
You can't purchase fertilizer.  You can purchase compost bins and use compost.
The preferences must have all 4 seasons, though you can start in any season you like.
You can't move any other Sims unless you marry them.  You may only marry townies, NPCs, and brand-new CAS adults with no friends or skills.

The game ends when your original Sim dies.

Scoring:
+1 for every $10,000, rounded down, in net worth at the end of the game.
-1 for every $5,000, rounded up, brought in by a Sim you marry.
+1 for every 20,000 aspiration points for your original Sim when they die.
+1 for every 50,000 aspiration points for any other Sim in the family when the game ends.
-50 for having no children.
-30 for having only 1 child.
-15 for having only 2 children.
-5 for having only 3 children.

Nuclear Winter Variant
It's 1963.  The Cuban Missile Crisis didn't go so well, and your Sims is trying to survive the aftermath.

Rules as above, except that all 4 seasons must be winter.
Greenhouses and ladybug houses are permitted.  Spraying is still not permitted.
The infrastructure of civilization has collapsed, so you still don't have electricity or running water.
For true verisimilitude, play in a neighborhood populated exclusively by zombies, except for your Sim.  Probably too much work just for a challenge, though.

 - Gus

Heh, that's funny, because I'm specifically equipped *TO* survive such a scenario, and I definitely have electricity and water. Heck, I disconnected from the grid entirely years ago, they were annoying me anyway.

Short challenge.

Make him family so the sproglings give him aspiration points.

Romanticate one of the welcome wagon and marry her before she leaves the lot.  Alternate spouse choice - the mailman/woman, since they pass by every day.

Try for baby.  Feed her cheesecake.  Have twins.  Have him do the potty/walk/talk training for more aspiration points.

Get wife pregnant again immediately after twins are born.  More cheesecake.

Kill him off (lightning is a possibility, send him out to watch the sky during thunderstorms.  Or there's a chance of fire when cooking, since he can't have a fire alarm) as soon as possible after the second twins are born.

Could sell all the fish, fruit and vegetables since he won't be living long enough to need to restock the fridge.  And if he does live long enough for the fridge to run out, there's always death by starvation to end the challenge.

The kid penalties wouldn't apply, might have a penalty depending on how much money spouse has.  Some aspiration points from falling in love, getting engaged, getting married, having kids and training them.  Most likely result a positive score after about a sim week or two.

I think you should allow a visit to a single community lot once a week -- Sunday only, provided your sim has his own transportation.  There are "cars" that look like horse-drawn carriages on MTS2 somewhere that would look right.  The community lot should be a church with no fun objects whatsoever.  Perhaps a grill and eating area could be put outside for the occasional community picnic.  (Not for the Nuclear Winter variant, of course.)

This is pretty close to how I play normally.

I love making my sims live off the land, since Seasons my sims dont go to work anymore. Obvioulsy I dont do the plumbing and water restriction thing but it woudlnt be that difficult to work it into my play mode, they can still have a tub after all. My sims dont have sinks in any case as they compost plates, but they do use a trash compactor so I guess that would be out with no electric.

I do have a stove that looks like a wood burning stove and I love it

The only aspiration award i use is the smart milk one, so I could live without it

The only time my sims visit a community lot is to buy clothes or to get married, so that s no big deal to do without

Ive built greenhouses, but I dont like them. So my sims dont garden in winter

I dont let my sims plant anything much till they have a supply of compost, they dont buy fertiliser

No phone! what a blessed relief that will be

Can we buy gym equipment? my sims get fat on homegrown food and they need to work it off, if not ill just have fat sims

Well, technically, you can get a huge score since money is basically unbounded. Not much of a challenge. Without the ability to spray your huge garden, the screen lag will get VERY VERY AWFUL, though, because bugs cause massive lag. You DO have to figure out how to live forever, but that's an easy enough nut to crack.

The variant is very similar to Apocalypse challenge/Seasons rules. Except by their rules you have to unlock Enviro. Sciences before putting crops down, plus Science for spray. And maybe something else....eh. I modified to having crops inside the house and no food delivery as only the grown crops are safe.

There is a bush toilet out there somewhere that I have. It came with a set that had a tent and a cooler-fridge. I believe it was from TSR.

We're assuming your Sim wasn't so foresighted, but still capable enough not to be eaten immediately.

I was rather assuming that the point of the challenge was to maximize score, not to simply finish with a positive score.

That's an interesting point.  None of the gym equipment is really appropriate for frontier subsistence farming, but there really isn't any exercise approach that is appropriate.  I personally suggest the "No Eat Crap" mod to avoid the fatness.  Weightlifting machines would be legal in the Nuclear Winter variant, but not treadmills or dance spheres.

Point taken about screen lag.  I've run through this scenario myself and haven't had a problem, but perhaps either I wasn't using a large enough garden, or had a better graphics card than most.  If lag is a problem, I think we can bend the rules to allow ladybugs.  Spraying is definitely verboten because it leads to Plantism.

Can we take it as given that actions which eliminate aging are forbidden?  I'm assuming Vampirism here, since becoming a zombie requires death.

I liked the concept of the Apocalypse challenge, but didn't care for how long it took, or the actual details of how you unlock things.  One Sim's lifetime is about as long as I can stand to run a given challenge before I get bored.

 - Gus

Generally, I feel the same way. If I hadn't gotten back into story writing and made myself throw several wrenches into the works, there's no way I'd be on Gen 7 of my Alphabet Challenge family right now. Third generation has always been my limit beforehand, but I finally found a good way to balance my simming "needs" in a way that keeps me enthused about it. I'm doing Apocalypse as well, but very much modified as some rules don't make sense to me or to my neighborhood's story, and over 10 generations as I'm only doing heirs & spouses to unlock, plus college is unaffected. The Oversoul has no issue with Romance YA's as there is a place for everything, and that place is college. Also, the murderous freak who tipped the barrel over was in Urban Paradise.

This sounds like a good next step, though. I was planning on unlocking Enviro. Science last, so going from no outside plants to a farming challenge would work well. Especially with a stingy fortune sim who wants to make as much money as possible, so spend nothing on groceries and not paying for anything that uses utilities would be right up their alley. Plus, I already had a cheapskate fortune sim...this'd be the extreme.

Can you have employees?

No, no employees.  Population is sparse in either scenario.

 - Gus

Besides - I guess it would be impossible to have employees, since you need a phone or computer to start a home business, and no home business -not possible to employ anyone. Or can you do it any other way  ????

Anyway, I like the idea of this challenge. I think I will give it a go when I get my Victoian 'hood together. My personal opinion: I think ladybug houses should be allowed, partly because of J.M's point and partly because they - theoretically - would fit in in a historical environment.

This one (http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=131507), by Numenor? It would be perfect for this challenge - I use it in all my Victorian houses!

ETA: Lethe_S has some medieval plumbing (http://modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=70326) on MTS2. They function like normal plumbing but fit in nicer in themed homes (I wish someone could make a "toilet" that had to be emptied once in a while, like the potty chair  ;D I need that for my poor, historical sims!)

I'm fairly sure that in the mid-19th century, the idea of introducing beneficial insects as predators was unknown.  The usual way to deal with pests was to pick them off by hand.  So if it weren't for the Plantism issue, the labor-intensive process of spraying would be more appropriate.  But as I said, if lag due to bug clouds is a problem, we'll just have to accept the ladybug houses, even if they do make it farming easier.

That medieval toilet is perfect for this.

 - Gus

I dont believe for one minute that the use of beneficial predators in farming is a recent phenomena, it has to predate the use of chemical pest control. Surely ladybirds have been eating whitefly for many thousands of years, dont tell me no one noticed till post 1840

Yeah. It's a good challenge, but these things tend to presume a historical primative environment that I find amusing on my better days (today's not one - so apologies in advance for grumpiness.) Humans have been using the natural world for ages to accomplish what we've refined into a pill or spray or whathaveyou. Maybe not as efficiently - I suppose that's a matter of debate.

Anyways, here - mid-1800s insectivorous birds.
("This country" in that case refers to the US - linky: http://www.sidney.ars.usda.gov/grasshopper/Handbook/I/i_10.htm.)

A fellow named Charles French, appointed Government Entomologist of Victoria in 1889 wrote a big book called Handbook of the Destructive Insects of Victoria covering 132 species of pests and a wide range of insectivorous birds, each with color plates etc. [with circles and arrows- a typical case of American blind justice and all]. Anyway in said book he quoted the effectiveness of the ladybird against cottony cushion scale in citrus in California in 1886 (taken to California for that purpose, so used previously) and "enjoins growers to protect our tiny insect friends the ladybugs." By the way, this guy was an apprentice at a nursery in 1856 (they did grafting) and did so well at it that in 1862 he was appointed Plant Propagator in charge of all glasshouses at the Royal Botanic Gardens of Melbourne.

He does say big farms with lots of employees should probably use insecticides etc.
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1440-6055.1994.tb01230.x
(I'd have quoted rather than paraphrased, but that thing is a pdf).

The house sparrow, which isn't native to the US was imported in the mid and late 1800s as a destroyer of insects. Of course, subsequently (too late, they were here) it was discovered they aren't insectivorous but <shrug> that was the idea.
http://www.sialis.org/hosphistory.htm

From a fairly quick search and mostly actual governmental policy and the like (rather than just general practice which is usually much older.) I'd say using ladybirds and other insect-eating thingies was pretty common by the 19th century and probably much earlier.

By the way, by the mid-late 19th century, the rich had running water in their houses. And they certainly had employees on their farms (even though, yeah I think Berg is correct and there's no way in the sims to hire employees without a phone or a computer.)

In 1862, during the civil war, a plunger type mechanical toilet was installed on a Union ship and efficient toilets were being sold by several companies in England in the 1870s. (The invention of the toilet is credited to a fellow in 1596 or possibly is much earlier in Crete 2800 years ago or China.)

Showers are earlier - the English Regency Shower was developed around 1810. The American Virginia Stool Shower was developed in the 1830s and freestanding lead worked units were created in the 1850s.
http://www.theplumber.com/standup.html

Actually, in the late 1880's, predatory insects were used in pest control, and in the US.
See: http://www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/01-04-27.htm
Yay history.

The thing I liked about the Apocalypse challenge is that it set challenges for more than one sim, thereby forcing me to fulfill the challenges set for the offspring.  This challenge ends with the founder's death, so I could kill him off early (as outlined above) and the challenge would be done.  It wouldn't be high scoring, but it would be done.

Apocalypse isn't very long anyway.  Pre-Pets rules I did it in 58 days (founder + spouse + 7 kids + 1 spouse + 4 grandkids).  I had a look at the Pets rules, but it requires I actually play the Pets part of the game - which I don't normally do.  I only have Pets for completeness and because I like some of the objects.  I haven't yet taken a look at the Seasons rules, but I'm thinking of doing that when I get bored with one of my current hoods.

Interesting stuff.  I have a hard time visualizing pioneers crossing the plains in covered wagons with ladybug colonies, though.  Or anything similar.  I'm pretty sure we're talking about relatively civilized areas fiddling with importing insect predators, not the homesteaders in the new territories.  By the same token, while flush toilets existed in the cities, outhouses were still the rule for pioneer farms.  This is frontier farming, after all.

In any case, it's really more a case of trying to make farming challenging and then rationalizing a background for it than trying to be historically accurate.  Ladybug houses just didn't sit well with the images of poor western farms of the mid-19th century that I've seen on film.  Which is purely fictional, of course, but that sort of thing isn't really part of the mythos of the Old West.

 - Gus

Spraying should be allowed, anyway. While we never directly witness this activity, it can be inferred that it occurred because the films run at a comfortable 20-odd FPS, instead of the 2 or 3 that would result if spraying did not occur on a field that size. Since there are no reported incidents of massive frame-rate drops, it can be inferred that people did, in fact, manage to de-pestify their crops to some degree.

I live in Adelaide, which was settled in 1836.  Wagons were never an issue here, as settlement (and ongoing trade with the older states) was done by ship.  So someone could have imported some bugs to control the environment.  I guess it's my Aussie perspective - we had frontiers here too.

Crop farming in the early life of the state was hard.  Areas were opened up for agriculture that are normally subject to poor rainfall.  In 1865 George Goyder surveyed the state and drew a line known as Goyder's Line.  North of this line, agriculture is non-viable due to long-term average rainfalls.  From http://www.southaustralianhistory.com.au/goyder.htm : "When agricultural land became scarce, combined with good seasons and crops during the early 1870s, and the expected income of land sales, it persuaded the government to disregard the Line and allow farmers to buy land north of the Line. The government even surveyed towns in that area such as Hammond, Bruce, Cradock, Gordon, Johnburgh, Wilson, Carrieton, Chapmanton, Farina, Amyton and several others. Poor seasons in the 1880s proved Goyder right, and farmers slowly moved back south of his Line."

Also, if you prefer spraying to ladybugs except for Plantism, there are hacks to prevent that.

If you want your 'primitive plumbing' to be more realistic, make it a rule that the outhouse has to be moved every so many days.  My mother grew up on a farm with no running water; the outhouse got moved to a new pit at least once a year.


For the purposes of the challenge, you could imagine them as "bee hives".  If you want to be seriously realistic, you could try to get some creator to make you a Ladybug Loft that looks like a beehive. Again, my grandfather was a subsistence farmer--and he kept honeybees.

Using Ladybugs is burning the village to save the village, anyway. The ladybugs themselves cause lag as bad as the regular bugs do!

Worse than the regular bugs.  The regular bugs aren't on the lot all the time.  The ladybugs are.

I haven't seen lag with either one.  I'd have thought the ladybugs not as bad, since each buggy plant can have a substantial cloud of bugs around it, and you only need one smaller cloud of ladybugs for, what, 24 plants?  I think the ladybugs protect everything within 2 tiles.

Got a link to the anti-PlantSim mod?  If so, we can just allow spraying if it's installed and be done with it.

 - Gus

And they don't protect enough to be worth it. Indoor plants always win. By the way, in case anyone missed it: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=229680 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=229680). Indoor crops, on a foundation or the fourth floor if it tickles you, and no floaters.

Kyna, I chucked the pets rules. Make no sense to me, as my pets don't exactly inspire me. You can't teach your kid to study because Rover hasn't met the top of his career? Uh, why? But then, I'm not keeping score or anything, so I customize challenges as much as I like.

Gus- 24 plants? Interesting math there. 2 on each side would be a 4x4. That's 16.

EDIT: Doi, it's not one of those on-the-line objects like the sprinkler. I stand corrected. Shows how much I grow outside of a greenhouse.

I did say within 2 tiles, didn't I?  That's a 5x5 square with the center occupied by the ladybug house.  Hence, 24.

 - Gus

Before I started putting fruit trees in greenhouses I found that to be effective I needed to put one bughouse per fruit tree.  Any less and I'd have to spray.  Since the point of them is to avoid spraying I used a lot of them to achieve that end, and suffered the performance hit. 

Then I came to my senses and realised playability was more important then realism, and now all my fruit trees go inside a greenhouse.

No chance of Plant Sim from DJS: http://www.djssims.com/index.php?id=385#comments

Excellent.  I tried searching for that on my own, but my Google-fu was insufficient.

 - Gus

Well, I started this challenge the other night! You didn't say anything about the lot size so I chose a small lot, mainly because I prefer smaller lots overall, but also because I wanted my sim to spend his cash on the essentials rather than land. I built a small cabin with two bedrooms, one living/dining area and a kitchen where the bathtub also resides. Toilet in an outhouse, according to the rules. I put the fridge in a tiny basement with access from the kitchen, for an illusion of a root cellar.

The welcome wagon included the townie Brandi Le Tourneau (three bolts! Whaa!) and she moved in before the day ended. She brought a mere 2,000 but had some stuff in her inventory. I kept a piano and a rug, sold the rest (I thought about it as her dowry...) but maybe the rules should be tweaked/more specific about those things? I also bought a phone to make her quit her job but I sold it back, of course.

Anyway, I didn't use ladybug houses or sprayed for the first four days or so, but finally I gave in and allowed my sim to spray. The whole garden was infested with bugs and the lag was terrible! I didn't know exactly how bad it could be before - everything crawled even on the fastest speed. So I sprayed. As you said, it's even more work for them, and we can pretend that they're using some home-brewn stuff, or picks the bugs off by hand.

Now the silly part... I was sure I already had the hack from DJS, because the thought of plantsims never appeladed to me (heck - I'm yet to have my first werewolf!). But I hadn't, obviously. So my sime became a plantsim. Twice. On the same night. :D

Well, I immediately changed him back to normal sim with the Puppy Killer but his motives became refreshed so I had to fiddle around a bit to make them about the same as when he transitioned.

I started in autumn and now it's winter, and for realism I'm not letting them grow anything until spring. They have twins on their way but a stocked fridge and about 2,000 in cash so I think they'll make it.

Date boquets, by the way? Can you sell them or do we kep them?

Small lots are good for this, actually.  When I was fiddling with the idea, I used a 2x2 lot.  Sort of a sharecropper thing  ;D

Technically you shouldn't sell the boquets, since it's a source of income other than farming, but it's such a time-inefficient way of making money with no community lot timewarp available that I think we can ignore it.

 - Gus

If you really are dead-set against any sort of income from anything other than crops, you could always specify that the bouquets and such should be placed in someone's inventory.

Eh, I'm pretty sure people still bought those back in the old days.

Sounds a bit like my hippie(or native American) challenge i made for myself. Except for the fact that my sims can use the toy bench(with the idea that they are producing wooden toys or totems) and can sell paintings (with the idea thats its either native or primitive art).

Makes this a bit easier with simslice's animals. A bit more realistic as well. For your needs using the animals for a food source in winter would be likely. My hippies weren't allowed to use them at all. (I gave them a vegan diet with the exception of fish) for my native Americans the animals had to be a substitute for anything that would normally be hunted.

I recommend a trip to Simsmod board for those talking about keeping honey bees. They have a functional Beehive there.
http://www.pc-sims.com/smb/showthread.php?t=6158

Odd note on ladybugs.  My family is from small-town California, and in the Spring ladybugs migrate through there.  They congregate in a huge dry riverbed apparently in the hundreds of thousands.  Local boys go and scoop them up, put them in containers and sell them to farmers.  So while ladybug colonies do not conjure up the frontier days, I think it wouldn't be totally unrealistic for wild west types to utilize them in similiar ways as modern day california farming areas.  I like the ladybug house in-game and do not get lag w/ them.