More Awesome Than You!

Having read the brilliance of many posts around here over the past couple of days, I have come to realize that I know next to nothing about the sims.  :o So I have a handful of questions that hopefully you good people will answer.

1. I'm just starting to play with the idea of creating my own custom neighborhood instead of trying to butcher Pleasantview into being what I want it to be. I read a topic which detailed deleting all the sims in a neighborhood and creating your own. Is there a reason you would want to do this, other than not having the same hideous townies all the time? Like for example, leaving the maxis-made ones in will cause some kind of Doom and FUBAR the whole neighborhood.

2. Speaking of FUBAR... I've seen an acronym around here referring to fiery balls of doom and such. What does this actually mean, referring to the game? If you get over 500 sims (or whatever) is there a literal rain of fire? Does it just stop loading one day? Does it get too glitchy to play?

3. Is it bad to make a new sim in CAS with custom hair? Is it better to create them with a basic black/brown/red/blonde hair color that can be passed down through genetics, then use the mirror to give them new hair once they're in play?

4. I would really like to have my own custom townies, now that I know such a thing is possible. Would it be better to get rid of my beginning of a neighborhood and start fresh so I can use the directions outlined in the thread I mentioned?

4a. Would doing something like the above be the only way to introduce custom skin tones and eye colors into the townie pool?

5. I really enjoy servos, especially to use them as managers for businesses my sims own. But I hate their mechanical look. Ever since I found it I've used the technique in this tutorial here (http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=113665 (http://thesims2.ea.com/exchange/story_detail.php?asset_id=113665)) to make Servos into androids. I make my template sim, move them into a lot, use them for Sim Surgery via SimPE, then move them out and delete them from the sim bin. They never talk to anyone. Is this stupid? Am I somehow inviting Doom by doing this? Is there some other, non-stupid way of getting servos to look human?


Thank you all for your help. :)

1. They're just bad spawners.

2. BFBVFS: Yes, your game will get glitchy and mean and refuse to work.  This is rare, unless you are very stupid.

3. Try binning them.  Not deleting them.  Search for color binning.

4. Start fresh.  You neighborhood will not be as broken as Maxis' are.

4a. Yes.

5.You should prepare them for this by using Deleted 2.  Search for that too.

Use the FAQ's links section and Peasantry's Taster's Choice Section.

You will DEFINITELY need to get SimPE if you are to bin hairs.

With this and a little bit of effort, you too can become a Simmer Supreme...all for under 50 bucks!

Q2 is answered in the awesome FAQs.

Yes, I would hit the main FAQ first.

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=7437.0

And then, for most hacks, especially the more complex ones like autonomous romance, there are extensive RFTMs.

Welcome, we don't bite hard. Except when we do.  ;D

/me is very proud of the FAQ.  ;D

Thank you for the link to the faq!

I'm ashamed how retarded I sound when I say this but it's the honest truth, I find BBS systems with this many nested forms very hard to navigate, and I haven't been able to find these threads on my own. :(

Could someone link me to the forum where these awesome faq threads are held? (I'm checking out the links section in the faq you already linked, thank you again for that! but I don't want to miss any so pretty please link me!  ;D)

I promise not to ask any more questions that have been covered in a faq!


Oh, and thanks very much for the welcome... but I've been lurking here long enough to know not to believe for a minute that you guys don't bite. ;) Good thing I don't mind!

Hey no worries. Most bites are aimed at trolls. You're going to kick yourself but the FAQs are stuck to the top of this very forum: The Podium.

I also recommend that you make sure you have email noitification turned on. This allows the forum to automatically send you an email if a topic you are interested in has been replied to. The option will be found in your profile settings.

Don't feel intimidated. Many of the regulars here come across as fearesome, anally-retentive, fire-breathing dragons, but 'neath those scaly hides they have hearts of pure, red, cardiac muscle. OK, and the livers and kidneys of their victims as well. ;)

You'll be amazed at how fast you become addicted to this stuff, too. And once you begin to mess with the game, it gets harder and easier at the same time. :P

That one FAQ thread you've already been linked to is the only FAQ.  There are a lot of good infomational threads around, but not in any easily findable location. That's part of what that FAQ is--a collection of links to all the good stuff.

Yeah, we're also liars, so way to be an observant lurker first.

The other FAQs I mentioned are either in the thread or packed with the file.

*Puts on dorky hat and badge*

Hi my name is Assmitten and I'll be your MATY tourguide. Before we begin our tour, we would like to advise you to keep your arms inside the wagon. MATY Tours is not responsible for participants who are messily devoured or catch on fire.

To your left, you'll see a Fat Obstreperous Jerk. Do not poke or worship the FOJ. He merely is.

To your right you'll see some Senators. They don't really do much, except be Generally Awesome.

The threads break down like this:

The Podium is where we are. People talk about general Sims stuff here. If a thread gets too stupid (off-topic or flamey), it gets booted off to another section, Retardo Land, the spiritual home of emotionally-stunted peasants.

If you click "home" in the upper bar, you can see the overall structure of the board. We'll start with Burnination.

The War Room contains facts and research about the game, such as chance card odds. There is also a big focus on efficiency, like what appliances, etc, will produce the most useful meals.

Stay out of the Bowels of Trogdor, unless you are one of those pervs who get into geeks having a programming wank fest. Sometimes I go in there to go "OOOOOO" and then leave again.

The rest of Burnination is self-explanatory, I think.

Now, the rest of the board is where the FAQs are.

FFS Hacks are the ones that Pescado and his Associates make. They will make your game better and less annoying. You can read a thread and decide if a hack is for you. When you download a hack, it will contain a RFTM (as a small rtf), which will give you a little clue about what it does. There are lots of game fixes here. I haven't actually officially patched my game since Nightlife, and I'm doing great with what's here. The best information can be found in the threads, because people ask lots of questions there. I am lazy, so I just download Pescado's Director's Cut, which is like a burger with every good thing you can imagine, and then some unicorns on the side.

Not a Good Commando Name is TwoJeff's lair. He makes game fixes that remove annoyances and add fun, like a hack that will allow the sims to autonomously stir the macaroni  ;) and even get knocked up. He is less obstreperous than the Grand Poobah.

Crammyboy is critical to know about, because of his Crammypeen. Once you depixelate, (you have depixelated, haven't you?) you will experience the shock and awe of Barbie crotch. Slap a peen on there, stat! He has other hacks and objects as well.

Peasantry (under Burnination) is worth exploring, because there are many talented peasants here who are making their own contributions, even some who could use their own sections *coughcoughSTEcough* but those individual hacks can be found there.

What to do with the hacks is all covered in the main FAQ. I advise you to just jump in and start reading threads that interest you. It took me a good six months or so (three of them lurking) before I could figure out WTF was going on here, and to feel like I was up to speed. Keep asking questions from a place of curiosity and (relative) politeness and you should do okay.

This concludes our tour. We want to thank your for choosing MATY tours and we would like to assure you that your eyebrows will grow back. Have a nice day!

I lurked a long time around here, too...lots of good information to be found on this board and it's really not that hard to navigate...I've seen much much worse.

I've never played Maxis anything.  Not from the first day of the first Sims1.

I make my own neighborhoods and using a hack from here, I kill all townies and they don't regenerate and I can play in peace with no Marsha Bruenig or any other annoying townie.

I also am a firm believer in TwoJeffs visitor controller...another game sanity thing for me.

I do have to admit that even though I once read here that the magic number was 800 sims before the neighborhood went wonky, I'd say that the number is much closer to 500...as my last neighborhood imploded for multiple reasons, but I suspect among them were that my sim count was closing in on 600.

But, I've also figured out that if you create ALL the sub-neighborhoods FIRST and THEN do the deleteallcharacters thing with the notownieregen installed...you get even fewer townies, so you start with a much lower number of maxis made characters.

In my experience hair is genetic period.  Even custom hair binned under the asterisk will appear on a toddler.  However correctly color-binned hair is the best way to go...gives you more options when it comes to attractions.  When I create sims, I use custom everything, the genetic offspring will have one or the other, all custom.

Heh, I'm hardly new to Sims (had Sims1 and all packs from the day they came out and same with Sims2 sans those waste'o'time stuff packs) and somehow I never knew about non-perv hacks until two months ago. I knew that neighborhoods could implode from messed up SWAF and deleting sims that have been played, but never about the 500-800 sim neighborhood limit. Considering my love for enormous neighborhoods with three colleges, 2 downtowns, and 3-6 shopping district/suburbs, I've been incredibly lucky.

The random fellow sheep at TSR who pointed me here for the baby/toddler spammage hack have my thanks. They started a disease.

I believe the number you can have in a neighborhood increased with one of the EPs and nobody has figured out the new top yet. So if you're treating your hood well it should have a nice long life.

The biggest thing that messes it up is installing any lot (from anywhere, including your other neighborhoods) with a sim in it - don't ever do that :)

Next on the list is deleting sims without properly cleaning them up (especially certain kinds of memory issues and Sim Wants and Fears which do funky things but I haven't actually see totally make a hood unplayable - yet). You want to use clean methods of deleting sims (Pescado's got explanations around, I think there's a link higher up in the thread, and someone can link you if there isn't (just don't have time to go searching from work :)

Killing (rather than deleting and cleaning up) doesn't help with character numbers as the ghosts still have character files unless you delete them and do the same cleanup as above.

The very bestest way to have your own townies and all, and to have the cleanest neighborhood (likely to have the longest life, as well as it just being IMO more fun) is to start with the empty templates. Those are wonderful :)

Edit: <blush> I put this part here in the wrong thread.

Have fun, it's a great game and this is a wonderful site :)

Wow, Assmitten, that little tour was exremely helpful! It's still a little wierd and confusing but hopefully I've got it now. (Also, my inner 12 year old won't stop giggling because I typed "Assmitten" and I'm not being rude. Assmitten! ...I'm done now.)

Okay!

So, after poking around the site, I've decided what I really want to do is start a brand-new neighborhood completely from the bottom up! (Gee, I'm not ambitious or anything for a noob, oh no... ;D)

So... what are these empty templates? And where would I get one?

Barring those, what I think I need to do isi nstall hacks like no townie regen, no pet regen, etc etc etc. so that none of the generated townies/strays will come back, and I can put in my own using the instructions that are... uh, well I can't find it anymore but I'll find it, there's some thread around here that tells how to make your pre-created sims into townies.

1. Do I do this for NPCs like the maid or the Diva or the mailman, too? I don't recall that part in the thread, maybe I missed it.

2. How about strays? I think they're auto-generated the first time I enter the neighborhood, are they removed by deleteallsims too, and replaceable somehow? I don't see the benefit to making my own pets as much, except maybe to have a few custom breeds in the pool of strays... oh, and maybe not having 3 dogs named Noodle...

3. I'm going to need new community lots too. I've made a few of my own, but I've always used the default shopping district and downtown with my empty main neighborhood, so I'm going to need a lot of new, interesting, fun lots. There are some from the defaults I'm very fond of... would it hurt anything to put them into the lot bin and put them in the new neighborhood? Actually, what I like to do is move them somewhere, put a smaller empty lot next to it, and go back and forth between the two, copying the parts of the basic lot I like and cutting out all the wasted space, rebuilding it to be smaller, load faster, etc. Would it be bad to do this in my main neighborhood? I could have a seperate neighborhood for testing stuff and rebuilding lots like that, unless I'll do more damage moving around unoccupied lots *between* neighborhoods than I will adding-deleting-moving lots within the *same* neighborhood...

Start here:

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=5861.0

That's a complete tutorial on how to succesfully create completely clean neighborhoods and has links to all the related threads with added information on all the questions regarding townie customization you have been asking for. It's excellent work. Read it more than once. Bookmark it. Copy it into a .doc for offline viewing.

In case you miss the link in Jordi's tutorial, the empty templates and how to install them are here:

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4306.0

Good luck.

You're welcome. "Assmitten" away. I do it all the time in traffic.

Hey Moon,

Figured I'd answer a couple of questions which have not been addressed.  First of all deleteallcharacters is not a good idea.  It was never meant to be used at large, but was probably a tool used by developpers.  It leaves all sort of dangling thingies which can cause problems.  If you start with the blank templates you won't need to use the command.

Second NPC's will be generated as needed.  For example if you call for a maid, one will be created.  the noredundancy hack will prevent multiple maids and NPC's from being created.  The special characters like the Grim Reaper and the psychiatrist, the skunk, Crumblebottom and a bunch of others are created when you start the game.  The Diva and her male counterpart, the grand vampires are also special characters, but they are not created at startup.  They might be if you attach downtown, I'm not sure.  If not they can be created in debug mode.

Having said this (and having done it), I have to say that I am starting to reconsider the whole approach.  It works, no doubt about it.  However it's extremely time consuming.  You have to create tons of CAS characters.  You have to turn them into townies or downtownies.  Once that's done you aren't really finished.  Well you can be if you want, but all your new characters will be like CAS characters.  No skills, no badge, no job. zilcho.  So you need to go into SimPE and start modifying them.  I created an excel spreadsheet that generates random stats for a character, like job, job level, (and the required skills), private or public school, aspiration, sign, etc... So I used my excel sheet to generate stats to "round them out".  The whole process took forever, and by the end it was no longer fun.

Then I went to the SC2 social forum and checked out the "Makeover picture thread". That's when I realized that actually the Maxis character aren't that bad.  We only remember them as bad because we, like everyone else, we started playing the game with a premade neighbourdhood full of characters with flat eyes, dull skin and ugly clothing.   But put in some nice default skin, default eyes, a new hairdo, and decent makeup and all of a sudden they are pretty good looking.  And even for the really deformed hopeless ones, there is a solution. You can perform sim surgery on them.  With the aid of some new face templates (there are some in peasantry, and Helaene created a gorgeous replacement for the heart-shaped face on MTS2) you can completely change the look of the ugliest frog-faced townies. Or maybe just tweak them so they don't scare little children anymore.  And the replacement templates will prevent new NPC's and townies that are generated from being vomit-inducing. 

I use face replacements by Doc Doofus
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=130190&c=1&page=1&pp=50

other people have made them also
http://forums.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=194488 (another set and has some links to other sets)


I use SaraMKs empty templates to get a totally empty new custom hood and then use "testingcheats enabled/shift-click on mailbox" to force the game to spawn townies rather then spending all that time making my own townies.

I don't bother with the noregen hacks since my townies/dormies/NPCs are decent looking (thanks to the face replacements!)

I just did a clean template neighborhood last night and am loving it so far. Make sure to get Jordi's name hack at MTS2 (the one that includes pets http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=207539 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=207539), the one that doesn't http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=110889 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=110889)) and place it in Downloads before you load up the game so you don't get different-looking sims with the same old names. For default replacements, I use:

PlantSim eyes & non embellished skin (HystericalParoxysm): http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=223790 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=223790)
Fantastic pet eyes with many choices (awasegg): http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=220538 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=220538)
Sim eyes - the biggest difference maker! (Enayla): http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=217871 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=217871)
Default skin replacements (Enayla): http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=203024 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=203024)
I use these contacts for both my vampires and werewolfs (ciboulettebis): http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=168102 (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=168102)

I use the hunter-natural eyes but am thinking of switching to the enchanting ones. I have one cat whose eyes are normally slit-pupiled, one whose are almost always wide-pupiled.

Another really important thing before you create your new neighborhood: colorbin all those hairs the creators were too lazy to take care of. You'll have lots less NPCs/townies in the flat Maxis versions, and your new babies will have a greater variety to grow into naturally. Colorbinning looks a lot harder than it is, and the tutorial is here: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3844.0 (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3844.0)

3.  If I am not mistaken the character limit was raised significantly in one of the earlier expansion packs.  I have one custom neighborhood with 3600+ character files that works as well as can be expected.  Some of these are even junk files from a mass migration of sims from Strangetown to the custom 'hood that took place roughly two years ago.  (BTW:  Widely considered around here to be a VBT causing a BFBVFS)  I think you should have little to fear in this and you should go ahead and make lots of townies, who wants to see the same lame cashiers/waitresses/bartenders/etc. at every single lot visited?

I just add a personal experience: when you turn a CAS sim into townie or downtownie (e.g. with Inge's shrub) it will have no job at first, but when loaded the next time (as walkby, etc.) the game will automatically generate a random job and level for it, and the necessary skills: there's an apposite function which handles this issue (if sim is townie and without job, then... etc.).
It should generate random badges also (if you have OfB), but I have witnessed only the job one, so for badges I'm not entirely sure.

In this case, you shouldn't need to perform any additional setting, unless of course you want to specifically set a job/level/skills/whatever for some of them.
I did this in my hood, where all Maty's self-sims are townie: Pescado townie was pre-setted General (that was mandatory). Erm... sorry, KevinTMC... team mascot  :D.

I am going to create a custom neighborhood - with my own NPCs and no townies. Should I use deleteallcharacters and risk it? What would I need to do in SimPE (if anything) afterwards? I don't really want to use a blank template thingy in fear of it ... in fear in general!

Really Marhis? Damn!  Oh well I learned something new today :)

Dork, don't use deleteallcharacters.  Just use the blank templates.  You'll achieve the same thing but without the potential problems.  The templates aren't hard to use.  And the very worse that could happen, if you screw up big time, is to have to reinstall the game.  In any case, since you are starting over you have very little to loose don't you.

Maybe someone here could set up an automated template replacement program. Would be easy to do.  I'll think about it.   Hmmmm.... I think I could do it with a cmd

I used the blank templates but did not make townies. The neighborhood is pretty bare for awhile but that is ok for my purposes.

Before my adults reach elder I use the shrub to make them townies and this has worked out nicely so far.

Just my contribution and an idea someone else may be able to use.

I didn't bother to regenerate townies this run, since they generate over time anyway. Everytime I visit a community lot, either a new townie or downtownie appears. My custom hairs are all binned, and most of my custom skins have been rendered "not custom," plus the face template replacements I have mean my new townies all look pretty and unique.

Hmm. Generally I wouldn't like doing that, because it would just be like a really long way to make new townies. However, it's a good idea for excess children I have no intention of playing. I hate sticking them in a house and then seeing that plumbob there reminding me of their exile. Leaving them in the bin is too much like putting them in the naughty chair.

I went ahead and did a boolProp - create all townies on my new neighborhood. I like getting my family sims married off ASAP, especially since money is tight in the beginning. I kind of wish I'd used new default face templates (my game has been in a royal squinched-eye trend and I prefer anime ones). Maybe I'll restart...again! I'm already regretting using the default downtown instead of creating one with some of my own lot creations.

I used DAC with a custom template and it worked fine (probably before I heard that DAC was a Bad Ideatm) as I never had any intention of generating townies (which is where this causes the most trouble). There's probably some junk files in there, but my character count is so low I'm not seriously worried about it. If it breaks, I'll start over something else - I'm too distracted by shineys to care that much anyways. I use the blank templates for all the subhoods and for adding new EPs and love 'em - but I don't want all neighborhoods on the pleasantview or whatever template and the hood changing thing is waaaay too complicated for me.

Thanks again for all the info here!!

I've been reading tutorial threads and playing with all sorts of stuff. But even after reading the thread about the blank templates, I have one major question about them:

What ARE they? From reading I think they're blank templates of the existing neighborhoods - Pleasantview, Strangetown, and Veronaville, plus the pre-built sub-neighborhoods, so you can play the maxis-created stuff without having any premade townies or families. Is that right?

In that case, I think I'd rather have my own neighborhood anyway.


I have a set of lots I got from MTS2, which combines two things I adore - very small lots and an urban city theme. I even aquired a copy of SimCity 4 (arr!) so I could make my own map with the streets very close together, to reflect the small size of my new lots. (The widest point between streets is 4 squares... so it could take one 4x4 lot which would take up the whole space, or a 1x1 and a 3x1.) Soon I'll make a similar map for my own Downtown. I decided my shopping district would be more suburban, just in case I felt like playing a lot with a big backyard now and then.

I'm getting SimPE installed right now, so I can use the binning tool to make some of my custom hair not custom anymore so the hair color can be passed down genetically.

After that, I've got notownierespawn, nodormierespawn, nossrespawn, and noredundancy installed. I'll install nostrayrespawn after I let it spawn all the strays at creation. (Speaking of which... the only way to add to the stray pool is to have a pet on a playable lot and abuse them so they run away... is that correct?  ???)

Once I've created my neighborhood, I use CAS to make a bunch of townies, move them into a lot, and use the teleporter shrub to make them all into townies and downtownies. Then I go to the university, do some create-a-student there, and when I make them "townies" they'll become dormies 'cause they're YA, right?

Once I've done that, then I think I'm finished, and I can start building lots and families and etc and play!

Did I miss anything?  ;D

If you have empty templates and create a new neighborhood, you simply won't get saddled with all the Maxis garbage in the way of townies, downtownies, dormies, and residents of places like Bluewater.  The game will gen townies on its own (or you have to if you want them if you're using noregen mods).

However, I get the feeling that (with empty templates) should you rename/remove your existing game folder and let the game regen them (Pleasantview, etc.) then you'll get an empty PV, but normal Veronaville/Strangetown insofar as Maxis playables goes.


YA bodies removed as townies become dormies, yes.

I believe there are also empty templates for Strangetown and Veronaville in the thread with the others.

I never bothered to check that specifically... I delete the Maxis neighborhoods immediately.

Same would apply, though.  Empty neighborhoods, just waiting to be filled with... something.

So if I want to create my own custom neighborhood, not use the maxis premade anything, I still need the empty templates if I don't want to have any maxis townies?

I think I'm confused now. :(

Yes. Even if you always choose "custom" when creating a neighborhood and attaching sub-hoods, you will get hundreds of ugly Maxis sims dumped into your custom neighborhood.

Is it better to DAC or to use a template?

It's easier to use a template. DAC is just the first step, there's more you have to do to make your neighborhood completely clean. The templates have already done all that work for you.

Oh bleh. No more Marsha Broenig! No more Goopy! No matter what it takes!  >:(

So just to be sure, even tho it seems kinda obvious... (I've been wrong before!  :D) I want the stuff and instructions under EMPTY TEMPLATES, plus the stuff immediately above it under Seasons Update, right?


Judging from what I've read, if you use DAC, they're all created and then deleted - but the deletion is messy, leaves bits of info all over the place, and those bits could (and will, according to most people) eventually mess everything up. If you clean out the template they're never created in the first place.

The longer you play a neighborhood the more likely it's going to eventually explode into bizarre behavior. But the more careful you are to eliminate these "rogue information" pieces, the longer your neighborhood will be safe.

...But then again I'm a noob so someone can feel free to correct me.  ;D

OK, so now time for me to get things straight:
1) Don't use DAC, because even after cleaning things up in SimPE, things may screw up in the long run. (Especially if, like me, you are going to create a hood you plan to play for a long time)
2) Use the empty templates found here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4306.0) to save time and possible burnination.
3) The empty templates don't have Maxis families or townies and are the best way to create a clean, custom hood now and for ever more?

Well I think you could clean it all up in SimPE, but there's no point if you can just prevent the mess from being created in the first place. Other than that, yes. :)

The thing is, I plan to use an empty terrain for my sub-hoods. Will fugly townies/NPCs still be generated?
And on Jordi's thread here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=5861.0) it says that deleting the Pets folder will stop Pet NPCs and Pets from being added to every 'hood. But I want strays and the NPC Pet Trainer.
Jordi also says on that post that creating subhoods without using the Maxis ones (in other words, custom subhoods) shouldn't spawn any unwanted minions.

Doesn't matter.  If you do NOT have the empty templates for the subhoods, the fugly Eaxis townies will get carried over.  Use the empty templates.

And any townie/NPC/whatever generated by the game will be fugly if you have not replaced the facial template files.

I agree with Angelyne if you have sufficient editing tools,you don't have a prob just using maxis townies.  Goopy in my game is down right hott!  He has had a slight personality change(via InSIMinator) he has had plastic surgery that is permanent(thanx to a great and simple Sim PE tutorial--I believe it is at MATY) He has a body builder body(Insiminator site) and genetic due to the SimEnhancer(pay program) he also has cutom grey eyes and custom hair.  I was able to change his clothing and give him plastic surgery by Christianlov's clothing boutique over at Mod the sims(it isn't updated for seasons but the only limitation is that it doesn't have the outerwear option but everything else works)  The great thing about this method is that you can do it a little at a time.  Fix sims as they annoy you.

I don't do it to make townies, I don't like townies - they are just a waste of character files IMO.

This way my sims never turn into elders (boring) and they never die (unless they piss me off). I also don't have to watch the family boohoo about them being dead which is a plus.

I start the game with 4-5 families which is enough friends to satisfy the need friends for careers and the game generates other people to make friends with if needed (paperperson, mailman, maybe a delivery person) until the toddlers grow to children to roam the neighborhood unsupervised.

I did create my own dormies so if the teenager don't hookup by that time they can have a selection of dormies to select from.

This style may not suit everyone but for those trying to keep character files at a minimum I wanted to share it.

But I will not need to replace the facial template files because the only Maxis sims I am going to have are NPCs, which I am going to change using Sim Surgery anyway.

I have long deleted my N001 (Pleasantview). Is it still safe to change the N001 folder to N001-bak as shown in Jordi's tute (C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\The Sims 2\TSData\Res\UserData\Neighborhoods) ?

As far as I have understood, the hood generation should work like this:
- In .../Programs/EA Games/The Sims 2/TSData/Res/UserData/Neighborhoods/ there are the three presetted hoods (N001 = Pleasantview, N002 = Strangetown, N003 = Veronaville). These are the templates.
When the game loads the first time, it will copy those three folders in .../MyDocuments/EA Games/The Sims 2/Neighborhoods/, and these will be the pre-made hoods at start.

- When you create a new neighborhood, the game will copy all townie resources and files from .../Programs/EA Games/The Sims 2/TSData/Res/UserData/Neighborhoods/N001/ (Pleasantview) to create townies and NPCs: that's why in every new neighborhood you make you'll have the same Marsha, Komei, Kayleen Langerak and so on.

- Every EP will add a new subneighborhood. I'm not sure about their exact location in Windows, 'cause I have a slightly different installation, in Mac, but I think somehow you can figure it out. My templates are in [.../Programs/]EA Games/The Sims 2/Expansion Packs/[name of EP]/TSData/Res/NeighborhoodTemplate/.
They are:

• U001 (Sim State University)
• U002 (La Fiesta Tech)
• U003 (don't remember the name - the third Uni subhood)
• D001 (Downtown - in Nightlife)
• B001 (Bluewater Village - in OfB)
• P001 (in Pets)

Along with the addeed playables, U001 should contain all pre-made dormies, D001 all DownTownies, B001 I'm not sure there are new special townies and P001 all the strays.

When you add a Uni subhood, the game will copy all dormies and special NPCs from U001 template, when you add a downtown, the game will copy all downtownies and special NPCs from D001, and if you have installed Pets, also all strays from P001 (And I think also NPCs). Don't know about OfB.

- The trick of empty templates is that they are an exact copy of N001, D001, U001, B001 and P001, but without all characters and related characters data and resources. When the game will look in templates for townies/strays/etc. to copy, will found nothing and then will go ahead.

EDITED TO ADD:
Yes, because when you create a new hood the game will perform a task such as "search for a folder named N001 with neighborhood ID 0 in that location and then copy all townie characters from there". That will fail as soon as it will not find a folder named N001  ;D.

In fact you will, so I was told here.  It's something like, as your sims breed, over the generations the off-spring's appearance gets closer and closer to the template faces. I didn't think that was so - I thought it was based on a combination of the parental facial characteristics - but someone here told me it works something like that.  Maybe the face templates are used as a kind of baseline model?  (Speculating)

Given that each sim has facial characteristics that are considered... um... dominant, I have to wonder.  It's like me going in to edit a sim to make the elf ears more likely to pass down.

Still, I thought that given two sims having a baby, the resulting features would be a mix 'n match based on each feature, which probably results in pulling from template files.  If that is true, then sure... you'd end up with fuglies.

After all, a sim created as an adult doesn't necessarily have any data for younger ages for facial geometry, so it has to pull the data from somewhere, such as the templates.

Isn't that why a replacement file that has ONLY the adult stage in it result in bizarre changes/reversions on elder stage?

I, like the masses, have Pets. I, unlike the masses, want to keep the Animal Trainer NPC and the strays. Does that mean I can bypass the ~
~ part of the tutorial? To get rid of the two families in the family bin, I think I'd just delete them manually or even use them! *gasp*

If it helps, here is AmberDiceless's response to my comment and explanation.

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3804.msg212375#msg212375

SimulatedDork - if you want to keep the pets and trainer, just don't use the empty Pets neighbourhood template when you make your new hood.  Either that or do use it but don't use the no stray respawns hack. 

If you do the second, you will get new pets respawned as you play.  You don't have to worry about the trainer, as they are an NPC character (not a townie, downtownie or dormie) and the game will just spawn them as needed.  So as soon as you call one up, one will be generated - even with the no respawn hacks in.

How do I create an empty P001_Neighborhood.package version of the file?
*please not something complicated, please not something compli...*
So if I were to create this *coughnotcomplicated* empty file and not use nostrayrespawn - I'd rid myself of the 2 mEAxis Pets families while retaining the ability to create the Animal Trainer NPC (when I generate him) and see strays?
Unrelated note: Can one adopt strays? You can tell I haven't been playing Pets for long, lol.
Related note: So I create my n'hood, create the districts (with the empty templates installed) and then do not need to use DAC because the empty templates will have covered that for me? And as for the mainland, I can just rename the "N001" to "N001-bak" to stop any townies being created?
Have I got it right yet? *desperate whine*

So... if one merely deleted the character files from the appropriate directories under program files, is this enough?  Or is there further work that needs to be done to avoid strangeness and future hood explosion?

Whoa, whoa! Wait a minute! Where in the world did you get the ability to have 1x1 lots and can I have a piece of that? I would love 1x1's and 1x2s for an urban neighborhood! If it's possible, I absolutely must create a new custom neighborhood this weekend.

I generally make my own terrains in SC4 as well. If not for Sims2, SC4 would have left my shelf long ago.

It's a Marylou production over at MTS2. Search it there. It is very spiffy on my spiffy scale, and I think I'm beginning to understand this whole "custom hood thing".

Ness ~ I doubt I can help you, after all, I was lost in the mist of confusion at the start of this topic, but what are you trying to acheive by deleting the files?

Don't worry.  Doing some more reading, I think I have it figured out.  I was only part way towards doing the job I wanted, I have it under control now.

If I have this right, the empty P001 is what you download from the thread linked above, you don't have to do anything to create it since it's been created.
If you do that and don't use nostrayrespawn, the game will generate strays.
The empty neighborhood does not stop the animal trainer from being generated.
One can adopt strays by building up a very good relationship with them. I've done it all of once, it was a pain because you have to get the same animal to visit you a lot.
You don't need DAC with the empty templates, that's correct, but you do need to use the N001 empty template as your N001 (the old one being renamed will preserve it as a backup in case things go wrong).

So you don't need to renamed the folder to "N001-bak" if you use Sara's empty .package?

Seems about right to me kuronue.

Regarding transferring SC4 hoods over to TS2.  I've posted this information before but I'll post it again.

When you make your SC4 map, the spaces between roads transfer over like so:

No of Squares SC4             No of Squares TS2
no square (i.e. surrounded by roads)
                                       1x1
1x1                                  3x3
2x2                                  5x5
3x3                                  7x7
4x4                                  9x9
5x5                                  11x11

and so on

Note - only these things transfer:

Bridges - you can only use the first one
The only roads that transfer are the darker more expensive ones (roads not streets)
Trees - watch it, a single small tree in SC4 becomes 9 trees in a clump in TS2 

Also the map flips over so right (or east) becomes left (or west)

Brilliant! I think I am starting to get the hang of this! The empty .package file is the file downloaded from Sara's site here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4306.0). If I place this in my P001 folder, after deleting the character files that means:
- The Animal Trainer NPC will not be spawned until I trigger it in game (e.g phone him up).
- There will be no strays until my game generates them (nostrayrespawn removed, of course)
- No Pets townies that came with the game.
- And NO stupid Cyd Roseland + that bunch. Who the hell is Cyd Roseland supposed to be, anyway?
Did Pets townies come with the game?

That sounds right Dork.  Except I used all the empty templates and the nostrayrespawn and I did get some strays.  Just not as many as I would have otherwise. You might try that.

I don't remember if some townies came with Pets, but I would assume yet.  Every expansion seems to dump some townies into the pool, like a malediction.  I know that for some reason, for me,  the two premade families still appeared with the blank templates.  However I just deleted them.  I checked in SimsPE and there doesn't seem to be character files for them (while they are in the bin).


Hey now! You're holding out on us.  Please share! (your terrain).  I've been meaning to do that.  I even <cough> acquired Sim City IV.  But I've been too lazy to do it.  So far I have one neighbourhood created, which is rural.  But I want to create my downtown with small lots so they fit Plasticbox excellent series of urban houses.  I'll move all my families there, except for a handful of farmer types.

Yes, the two dogs who were a couple and Cyd Roseland and his pooch.

I wouldn't really consider them to be townies, but rather playables that the game forces into your sims bin.

I just followed SaraMKs directions to get rid of the Pets + Seasons playables (that maxis/ea forced on us) for good...

Didn't mean to hold out on you!  ;D

The terrain needs some icons... give me a couple of minutes to throw them together so it's not ugly in the chooser menu and I'll upload it.

It's completely naked and completely flat, which makes it look rather ugly imo... BUT when you use the concrete ground cover, huge skyrise buildings you can toss in from the neighborhood decorations and maybe stick a little grass in outlying areas... it looks pretty good! You can at least really get an idea what it'll look like when filled wall-to-wall with lots.

Edit: Added the terrain and its icons to this post as a .rar file. The 1x1 and such, like someone said above, were done by marylou - you can find it on MTS2. The awesome, awesome urban-themed stuff is the "Backdoor Lane" set by plasticbox on MTS2, which for your convenience is here: http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?f=143&u=178282 (http://www.modthesims2.com/download.php?f=143&u=178282)

I don't have SC4, so for my custom hoods I use these Efficiency Neighbourhoods (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=189847) from MTS2.

I don't need a camera mod to use them.  They are all flat, which is great for building.  They are undecorated so I can decorate them as I choose (my computer is a little handicapped in the graphics department, so I have chosen not to decorate them) .  And I was pleasantly surprised by the number of lots I could fit on them.  Haven't run out of room yet in any of the neighbourhoods I've used them in.

Hey, thanks for the tip, Kyna.  I've been looking for something like that.

How many lots does Easytown fit, if you know? I love the effiency terrains but I am using Loverat's Itty Bitty series at the moment because it fufills my tropical needs! Mwah. I only build on 2x2, 3x1, 3x2 or 1x1/2/3 lots for my hood.

Thanks Moon.  THis is exactly what I needed.  I didn't want a fancy terrain with al sort of decorations and mountains and bridges all done to look like a giant heart.  I just wanted something simple with a smaller grid  that I can use for plasticbox's and ngengi urban houses

SimulatedDork, I use the Easytown one for downtown, rather than a residential area.  I don't have any residential lots in my downtown, it's all commercial and entertainment in my game.  There is plenty of room left over, even after putting in most of Wolfsim68's commercial lots in it.

I tend to use DinkORama for the main residential area of my neighbourhoods, occasionally using EasyEstates, EasyQuad or maybe DinkBlossom for a little variety.  I mainly use 2x3, 3x2 or 3x3 residential lots, which fit nicely in the DinkORama terrain.  There's not a great deal of wasted space.  Since you have said you use smaller lots, then the Easytown one would have a lot of wasted space in it that you'd have to fill with decorations.

I HATE wasted space in my 'hoods - things have to fit together perfectly otherwise I'm not happy. It doesn't necessarily mean the houses are back to back and ontop of each other, but plain empty space (no decoration or anything) looks wasted and terrible. Especially for creating realistic downtowns, where the lots really are glued together.
I LOVE Wolfsim's work. Her lots litter my downtown and mainland because I refuse most other things (like a whiney toddler and a plate of vegetables.). Jade was a big fan of hers too. Her residential lots are just too kick-ass for words.
I also think that Starrling, Plasticbox and Kavkid all of MTS2 deserve a mention. Their lots are urban, come with little/no CC and perfect when planning with limited space!
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I never thought I'd compare myself to the toddler-and-vegetables analogy.  ???

You're right NVA - brain fart.  The only additional NPCs were the pet police and the pet trainers - plus the two families in the bin - and then the strays.  All will be squashed by the empty P001 template.

I'm using Easy Quad as my downtown (since I only use downtown for commercial lots...mostly entertainment) and DinkORama as university (love that name!). For my new neighborhood, I actually made a custom one. I'll attach for shares later, once I take a screenshot. IMHO, it only really looks good in lush or desert. It's a large set-up that needs GunMod's camera hack to work, but the streets are set up for smaller lots.

Another noobish question...

Is there any way to separate lots in the lot bin? Maybe by putting them into collections or by rearranging them so that all of one sort is together, all of another is together, etc?

Because between the maxis lots, the downloaded lots, the empty 1x1 and 1x2 and so on lots, my custom residential lots, my custom community lots, my custom businesses... it's really getting rediculous. And I still have ALL the custom comm lots and the businesses to make for my new neighborhood. And they're all jumbled together with no rhyme or reason whatsoever. :(

I've been wishing for this too. I would at least like to separate residential lots from commercial lots. It sucks that you can't tell what type of lot something is without clicking on it.

I keep all the lots I want to keep in a store neighbourhood and only pick them up (and put them straight back down again) when I want them.  It's a bit long-winded though.  The little lots are permanently in the lot bin at the moment.  I use those a lot.

One of the dogs was called Sarah, because mEAxis is infatuated with that name. Do you remember Sarah and Don? Or was that Sara? No, it was definatly Sarah.

How many 'hoods do you have? Once I finally clean my game up, I'll only have two.  And it's only becaues I'm holding onto the second one for general purposes (to test houses, keep CAS sims, to play out the storyline etc.)

What about people townies? Or were the strays the new townies? *notveryimpressedwithmEAxis*

Currently playing 3 'hoods.  Riverblossom, Strangetown and a custom Legacy style hood.  I periodically decide I'm sick of my current sims and wipe the neighbourhoods I'm playing.  Riverblossom isn't really interesting me that much currently, so I may wipe it soon.  Or maybe I'll just take a break from it until those sims seem fresh and interesting again.

I did some terrain surgery on my current version of Strangetown and replaced the terrain with one of the efficiency terrains, and now have sufficient space for subsequent generations.  I usually end up running out of room in the standard Strangetown, especially as a lot of the terrain is sloping.  I replaced the terrain the last time I was playing PV, too.

I use custom terrains to build my own uni and downtown for each neighbourhood I play.  So between my 3 current neighbourhoods, I'm using 8 custom terrains (2 main hoods, 3 unis, 3 downtowns).  The Efficiency Terrains get a lot of use in my game, and while I have my favourites for main hood, downtown and uni, I like to have a bit of variety and occasionally use another terrain.

No people townies with Pets - only NPCs and Cyd Roseland.

Since the questions on this thread have been answered, I guess it's OK to go a little off-topic?
Does anybody here play the Jade-style way? With an intergrated economy?

Jade-style? Linky?

I can barely keep attention to one family for three generations, much less a neighborhood for more than a couple months, so I've been through lots of custom hoods. I have five on my computer now, but V-ville and Kendry (custom) are about to be trashed. I hate it when I have to hit that arrow button.

Unfortunatly, Jade's site is no longer around. She was a great simmer with lots of ideas - her "community" way of playing could inspire even the most fidgety simmers to stick to a project. If you're intrested, I could explain her way of simming to you. It was fairly complex but well worth it once your neighborhood had critical mass. Her posts on it here are no long gone.
I prefer to stick to one thing at a time - I can't stand scrapping hoods because I always seem to spend so long on them. I plan to only have two (one to play out a story and one Jade-style) but ATM I have 2 Maxis' + 4 custom ones.

Yes. I think Jade and I kind of "discovered" this method of playing separately but at the same time. Back on Rentech's site is when I first realized anyone else played that way. She was more into storytelling though. I barely take any pictures.

However, right now I'm really more into themed neighborhoods than trying to make them completely self-sufficient. Most of my neighborhoods have at least some elements of an economy, since I find that it extends the life of the neighborhood when things are interconnected. Otherwise each lot is more or less its own island.

She invested a lot of time in her neighborhood, that's for sure. She even wrote a tute for minions like us to follow. The only thing I didn't understand is why she wrote "this is the only way to create a custom neighborhood" then ranted about why everybody was copying Thyme. Maybe she was only referring to creating a clean template to start on.
I liked to think I was the only person playing with mortgages until I read up a bit about Thyme. I think she used mortgages, but concentrated more on rent and taxes. I hadn't even thought about taxes, although I hated the way sims could never afford anything without a good dose of kaching but then I thought how unfair it was (I'm a very honest simmer, see) so then I made them pay it back over time. Of course, this was when I didn't know what a hack was, so I figure I did quite good for myself there!

Isla Muse used to be a themed 'hood, but I gave up on it because the loading times were hopeless and then opted for a small island where only 20 or so sims could live. From there, I'm developing my own set of islands: The Nephele Islands!

The reason I like themed neighborhoods is because it significantly cuts down on the amount of custom content that sits in the Downloads folder. If you just have a generic neighborhood, all sorts of crap starts looking good. Like, "Gee, maybe I'll find a use for this horse and buggy... or these decorative sheep... or these crowns and scepters... or this magic wand and pixie wings..." it just never ends. But if the neighborhood has a specific theme, like "backwoods country" or "space colony" you are much more unlikely to start downloading random stuff that doesn't fit in that theme. I keep all my neighborhoods separate, of course. This allows me to customize them even more, like having different default replacements for each neighborhood, or customizing the hacks I use.

Really her site is gone?  I was looking at it no so long ago.  I even printed off her tutorial.  I was planning to set up my neighbourhood as per her tut, but I never quite got around to it.

Her tutorial was good for ideas, but now I'm using my owned way of creating a 'hood. For example, townies were pointless in her tutorial, so she skipped making them. But now my neighborhood, Westwater, has three sets of townies 9the homeless, the tourists and the natives). It never occoured to me not to have townies until Jade, then it never reoccoured to me to have them afterwards. I guess it's a breaking-out-of-the-shell thing. I just wanted to make my game more to me, and to fully use the £29.99 worth of college funding I spent on a children's doll house game.
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Yeah, her site closed up pretty suddenly. Shame, too, because I was an avid reader of her blog. She didn't do herself much justice when she said "only ten people ready my blog" - loads did! I guess it was the "drama" from round here + N99.
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I always find uses for decorative sheep ;)

Yup, it's down...and every other search hit I get just links to that site. I'm doing a one-community-lot-per-residential thing. I build a residential lot for each gen of my "legacy" family, then a community lot somewhere at the same time. No new lots until the next gen is reached. I don't like sitting on the same lot for 10 generations, so I move my family every generation and give them the money that shows as their net worth from the 'hood screen to start the new plot. I end up with less $ because of item depriciation, but no biggie. It's not like I'm competing against anyone.

I also have uses for decorative sheep. One is a frequent prop in my nurseries.

Isn't it funny, different tastes and ways of playing the game. I read about the whole economic structure thing and immediately thought, my god, that'd be just like working at the local council. To me it just sounds like an incredibly anal OCD way of tracking zillions of variables.

My RL work consists of tracking zillions of things and comparing and measuring (stats) when I'm not teaching, so the play style holds little attraction for me.

As Queen of my sims world, I make decisions on the fly. e.g. a sim moves out to become a townie, I adjust the parent's money to account for a handout. If sims use Inge's mortgage bush to get some things for a business or home, I hit them with 10% interest when they pay it back.

I play for fun & relaxation with a bit more realism thrown in, as and when I feel like it. This game is more free-form to me, not a chance to create my own rigid set of rules.

I agree with witch. I don't even play challenges because I can't stand all the rules. The closest I get to OCD-style playing is to loosely rotate my lots, meaning that I do rotate them, but not by day or by week - as long as the sims are still in the same lifestage when I rotate them, that's good enough for me. The economic structure of Thyme, while it was a nifty idea, just seemed like too much work. Eh, to each her own.

Yes, to each her own, I hope I didn't sound critical of the players. It's the playstyle that holds no appeal for me, it's none of my business how others choose to play the game. Sorry if I sounded rude.

Didn't seem rude at all to me, witch :).

I remember thinking something similar about that way of playing, and at the same time thinking what an awesome way it would be to set up a storyline. There's no way I'd have the attention span for it, though. I've got great concentration during school and work (when I have a job; atm I'm blissfully unemployed), but in my leisure time I'm rather the opposite. I think I'm playing like 5 games currently, as well as reading 3 books ;D.

I have a slightly avoidant reaction towards my game now. If I avoid playing it, I can pretend it will work beautifully the next time I want to wait 30 minutes for it to load up, and that if it doesn't crash, it will be incredibly fun.

a t i c i PATION

I think Thyme was on the far end of the spectrum. Jade created a government, which complicated things tremendously. You can have an economy and interrelatedness without having a government or making things complicated enough that keeping records is required. I think that's why Thyme was so "scary;" most of the rules you saw were in fact related to the government, not the economy, it's just that the two were so closely tied. But economy ≠ government.

It's obviously a different way of playing. I'm just happy that the game allows all sorts of ways of playing and making things up that aren't even part of the game unless you make them a part of it yourself.

Sort of, in that I have always played in a similar way.  I picked up some good ideas from her though.

My hoods are kinda a combination of themed and Jade's (I have 2 like this, one kinda cyberpunky, very near modern and one late 1800s) - except I don't spend much time tracking anything. And, I more or less just do what I want. Even when I play challenges I just do what I want unless they're very very short. I live rules are made to be broken.

I do find I get stuck on something that's too complicated for me to want to work at it. Right now my modern-ish hood is stuck on Uni as I want it set up properly but the set up is way too much trouble. So I got distracted with something else <sigh self>

What I plan to implement from Jade's idea is to have all my player characters's own the community lots.  So it will be more like a small town where you know everyone.  No way I can put up with any kind of record keeping whatsover.  I might try Monique's rent system.


Another one of her ideas I was toyiing with was to clone all the NPC's with my player characters so that if the police come, let's say, you can pretend it's one of your payables.  That's a fun idea, but the problem is it's a little hard to do unless you play with aging off, as she did.   Beside I like my policeman in the game.  He's actually funny.  He's a real wuss and always fails to catch the bad guy (girl in this case).  He looses the fight everytime.

So lots of good ideas there, you can pick and choose from.

   As it so happens, I think I'm an OCD sufferer. I could spend hours perfecting my 'hood without playing a single family. I write up all the records: who owns what, who's going out with who, how much their rent is etc. What can I say - I like order! But I don't like legacy challenges at all - I can't see myself sticking to one lot for 10 generations, and if I ever were to take a break - I don't I'd be revisiting the legacy lot again. Besides: it's such a 2D way of simming, IMO.
   My favourite challenge is the challenge of keeping my economy 'hood alive and well, if that could be considered a "challenge".
I do play with mortgages, but I don't pay them back with interest. I think simming life would be too hard, otherwise. I try not to have just plain out loans though, because being bogged down with debt makes things unenjoyable and unsatisfying, especially when creating businesses. It was hard not to constantly take out loans, but I thought of a way that maybe is a bit more creative than Jade's: where she just flat out bought the businesses.

*********
Anyway, for me, the mayor is the first sim to be moved in. I figured I need a mayor because of the flow of the money. She then buys every empty community lot. Through taxes the residents pay, her job (she is level 10 on the politics career track - that's how new money is interjected into the system) and any other way the community can accquire money, these community lots are soon built up. She then places them for sale at City Hall for "less than average". This way: the taxes are spent on something useful, I never have to use "motherlode", everybody helps create the neighborhood gradually and sims can afford to buy a business almost immediately (as the lot is place for "less than average").
   I don't mind the £20K handouts, sometimes I even boost it up to £25/30,000. It depends on the sim/family. For example, a well established business man who moves in is obviously going to start out richer than a single mother of three. If a house costs £17,000 then that leaves £8,000 to start up the business: but that is nothing (considering a lot costs - err - a lot). So, instead, I have them keep that money and only pay taxes to the mayor. Once the mayor has collected enough, she visits a community lot and creates only the shell of the building. If money allows, then she furnishes it minimally. Say the buyer has spent £750 on taxes - that leaves £7,250 left to spend on buying a business. By now, her funds have grown to £9,000.  The business costs £11,000, but because it is put at "less than average": the buyer can now afford it. For really poor sims who need a boost, and if the mayor's funds allow, there might even be a greater discount then the game allows (15% below average, I believe?) The £750 he spent has gone towards building a better community.
   It's sounds complicated - but is really worth it. How do they do it in RL? You buy community lots from the community, of course, so why not in The Sims 2? Infact, the mayor has funded most of the building: so the simple £750 investment on the buyer's part has turned into an £11,000 business which he bought for £9,000. He could have just bought it from the "invisible" community: but that is exactly what this method is trying to iradicate. And then, that sim might be the only one with a business (and with practically no funds). This way, no sim buys a business until they're all relatively ready to be bought. So the community grows as a whole.

*********
Does that make sense? What do you think?
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I play with aging on (kills the realism otherwise) and I still clone my playables onto the fugly NPCs. It takes something along the lines of 20 sim days for an Adult > Elder transition, and I take forever playing a house! I can only play for a few hours on the weekend and I tend to rotate around which lot I am currently playing (unless I'm really into it or playing out a pre-set storyline)

One of the reasons I've sort of avoided this economy thing (besides it taking too much record keeping) is that I don't feel like this is the way it works where I live. People who want to start businesses either need to have a backer, a good amount for startup costs, or take out a business loan (hard to get, some SBA things make it easier but still hard). They need money for startup costs and for business premises (and whatever equipment/permits etc. are required). Businesses that don't require inventory (web design, for example :) are so popular and come and go so much because the startup costs are so minimal, but everything else is harder. A lot of people rent a storefront or small store space in a group storefront (or mall, but those are expensive) - usually cheaper in poorer neighborhoods. The people that actually own these properties tend to have money, and sometime leave them empty because the tax writeoff is bigger than they can make on rent (making it more difficult to obtain one.) And you hafta have the business lot with the proper zoning and all. The mayor giving most of the property away free or cheap just doesn't seem realistic to me. People make big bucks in business property. And startup costs (inventory/equipment) for new businesses are high - in part to help keep them from starting up, going broke and going out of business in short order even though that happens a lot also.

And it's too complicated. I've used Monique's rent system and I like that (this works really well for my late 1800s, where the landowner has a house, carriage house that he rents, barn that he rents and farmland that they work - takes a bit to setup but not bad really), also her payer/payee, computer and Pescado's money orders. Between all that and the money cheats in the game, I don't really have to remember anything - unless I lose all the records installing a new EP or something and then I don't care ;) I also use the AIO and various "hire anyone" employee hacks and those help too.

But that's just it: the limitations of the game means we have to adapt it to what we want. Like Sara said, the game allows all sorts of ways of playing that aren't even part of the game unless you make them a part of it yourself.
Who'd want a boring economic way of life? For me, I just want it organized and realistic. They can take out loans, have rents (although this looks complicated and I am holding this off for a while) and have businesses that don't require inventory (novel writing in the sims, for example.) If I had more room, I would open up a mall and have different sims rent out shoplets from the mall-owner. Instead, I have a marketplace (Lande Produce) where my Silver, my gardener sim sells his crops, my gardening club rep sells gardening club items and my florist, Dandelion Pierce, sells her flowers. It's how a marketplace works in RL except with simming adaptations.

That's why my sims buy it off the community - because it would be too hard to create a full business from scratch with motherlode and without a loan.

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I love Monique's mods! The payee-payer mod is the one I use for taxes and loans. It keeps a bit of tracking once you finish playing a house, but other then that, it works like a charm. Pescado's money orders seem a little pointless to me when you have familyfunds, I only use it when one family has the same surname (that rarely happens in my hood, but I keep his MO anyway)

I'm not sure we aren't speaking at cross-purposes as I'm not quite following everything you're saying :)


Here, for example - if buying from 'the community,' you mean the mayor (I'm not sure) and the mayor buys it with taxes, that's what I find unrealistic and have been trying to avoid. In my real world, there are "tycoons" who own property and rent it to people who want to start businesses, but they get rich doing it. And I want "tycoon sims" in the same fashion. Uh, I should mention I have no problem with out-and-out cheating if it fits my storyline. I'll happily motherlode a tycoon to let him buy the property and rent it to others. Usually if I'm going to cheat, I do it starting a sim/family and that's it-no more gifts from the goddess - so if the tycoonsim runs out of money, oh well too bad, so sad. And he doesn't own all the property - other sims can become tycoons, if they get rich enough to start buying it (or my landowner goes out of business or whatever.)


I'm not quite clear on this either. Honestly, I haven't found much at all I can't find some way to accomplish - since OFB (that's the reason I love that EP so much) - but I'll put in a hack at the drop of a hat to get what I want (add 'em, try 'em out, take 'em out, put 'em back in, add another). I've got a ton of them, different ones to have different things. I really have more trouble finding the "stuff" I want than the hacks to make the game work the way I want, with a few exceptions.

There are some things I've just sorta decided to accept that's how sims are and sims aren't people - spinning around to suddenly switch from 4 years old to 10 and then from 10 to 16 for example. And the other is how babies are born. I've tried to do hospitals and playing out home births and whatever, but the truth is, it's just not how people do it. Sims give birth in a few minutes with a scream or two and divided plumbbob and there ya are and Aunt Martha. They ain't people. (Death is a whole 'nother issue with a thread of its own.)


I want it semi-realistic and *easy* :) That's why I use Monique's mods to take care of most of it. I don't do any external tracking at all. Jade kept a lot of records. I don't keep any - if I don't just remember it or it isn't in the game somewhere, oh well, it's gone. And I'm phobic about numbers.

The rent system really isn't hard at all. You give the "landlord" the deed and the renter a rental contract, from the landlord's house decide how much they'll pay and how often and that's it. The computer does the rest. The only complex thing is to remember that one of them (and I can't remember which, of course) has to be set up before the other - for that, I keep the thread instructions in a file with the hack and check before I start giving out deeds. Other than that, it does all the work for you :) Except I'm not sure this mod is updated for Seasons, wasn't last time I checked :( :(

I use Monique's computer for most 'work from home' things (novels, web design, etc., any work that can be done on the computer) and it's easy. For the right sims, I'll use a work at home career, but usually I don't bother with that.

The payer/payee mod is harder than the rent one. I get confused by it now and then, but did use it to have employees who could work in the orchards (as, if you actually *hire* them, they can't garden) but now that other people needed that for Seasons, there's 2 mods that allow employees to garden and I don't need it anymore. <wheeeee>

I like Pescado's moneyorder because it's easy and the sim 'receives' the money so it feels more realistic than family funds. For my own repairshop, I usually pay the repairpeoples via money order (for most other 'hired' employees All In One works better, except nannys - I'm stuck on nannys again <misses Dizzy's hack some more> and will have to do them the same way as I do repairpeoples.) I don't do taxes - that's part of the 'too much for my tiny brain' stuff :)

I'm enjoying the discussion and not fussing you're doing it wrong or anything. Different people play different ways and I'm waaaay lazy and *not* OCD :) The way you're doing it works well for a lot of people, just not me. I hate recordkeeping and anything that begins to seem complicated and like a lot of work, and anything with numbers. So I'm just adding some other ideas and opinions and stuff. :)

I think that everyone that plays this game displays some OCD like characteristic.  But that doesn't make us OCD sufferers. :D Every darn human foible has to be labelled and turned into a disease these days.

You like spending time organizing your sims.  You probably find the process soothing.  Very few things in life can be ordered just so.  That makes it appealing to you.  Doesn't make you OCD, unless you are so obsessive about it that you neglect your life (housework doesn't count).   There you go.  Where shall I send the bill ? :)

Seriously, there is something deeply appealing about this game that is hard to put a name to, because it varies from person to person.  I know that I spend WAY too much time downloading and organizing custom content.

I know that my partner would probably say I'm obsessed because I haven't watched TV with him for months.  But I find TV boring and every time I am in a situation where I am not engaged with something (read interested), I can hear the sims' voice calling me. 
 
Anyway back to these various ways of playing.  Very interesting, let's keep the conversation going.  Especially since JadeElliott is AWOL and her site shut down.  Sagana I like your way of playing.  I'm not much for record keeping.  Do you use the all in one NPC from ChristianLOV?  Does it still work pretty with all the EP's?

I was going to use that hack that allows you to hire a maid from your payables.  So far a Nanny hasn't been an issue as I haven't felt the need for one.  Big families help.  There is always someone at home

Yep, I like All In One although it's a bit buggy here and there. I updated to both Pets and Seasons at the same time and put it back in my game so it must either have said it was updated or didn't need one and it hasn't caused trouble but I haven't played with it much since then either (got distracted and am doing something else at the moment) so I couldn't swear there aren't issues.

What's the one that lets you hire a playable maid?

Yes, the mayor(ess) buys all the lots from the "invisible community" then sells them on to the citizens. But she does not use taxes solely to buy the businesses. Infact, when she buys them, they are just empty community lots. My storyline is how a group of travellers rediscovered an island previously inhabited by a Greek queen (don't laugh!!!) - so of course there wouldn't be businesses and only a few houses. Taxes, in "RL" go towards improving the general life of citizens, right? But the way I see it - instead of the mayor flat out giving the money to the poor to "improve their lives", she instead gives them an assest: a business.

I take your point on "tycoon sims" who make their business by renting out lots to people, but my way is slightly different: with the mayor the only tycoon sim, the rest are "peasants beneath him". Instead of renting out the lots, he sells them: the goal here is not for the mayor to make money as (s)he has many other ways of doing that.

Basically, I play the same as you only my only tycoon is my mayor and she nevers goes "out of business" because she has taxes to reimburse her funds and she is level 10 on the politics career track.I cannot imagine anyone other than the mayor buying-to-sell/rent as my community consists of 36 (useful records, eh!) sims - there isn't any room for more than "one at the top".

I agree with your "motherlode" philosophy (does anybody else get annoyed spelling it so idiotically?) - I'd only cash them up at the beginning and let them chose how they want to spend it. But, OCD or not, I have to have a *reason* as to why the have so much money. I can't face two college kids with ten million in the bank - this kills realism instantly. Usually, my excuse is "they accquired their extra simoleans from previous businesses, jobs etc." but this doesn't work if they start out with £50,000 - or however much is needed to become a tycoon.

But what I mean is how EA (was it EA by EP3?) never included what we needed to create a realistic community. I may be going on about realism - but the first thing that annoyed me about the game was the £20k handouts, until I used my imagination to think where they could have come from. My favourite hack is my imagination :D

Without OfB, none of this would be possible. Well, I figure some brilliance out there would have found a way to imitate some of the functions but it's nicer that Eaxis released it as an EP, so we can blame somebody :)

Can sims webdesign? I hardly ever "play" the game - more devise stratergies and storylines + decorate/build/create.

Thanks for all your tips on the money hacks/cheats. I am quite reluctant to change my ways, I took me a dozen posts before I felt reassured enough to use the
blank templates, but I'm willing to try Monique's computer: what's the worst that could happen?
*Explosion in distance. It's my game

I'll be back later to kick ass and play card games write some more - hehe. Yep, this is indeed is an intresting conversation!

That's interesting.  I used Monique's mods for a while but have discarded them.  I don't like the fact that you can't take stuff out of Downloads (like when I want to test something) and not loose the tokens that keep track of things like the loans.  I also hated the fiddle of setting everything up, especially when the computer had other functions set to on, such as the children auto-saving money for college (I believe she's changed that now).  I do keep records: I am working on an economic system which is still being developed which includes taxes, mortgages and loans and sims working for each other and the council.  I like keeping it on paper though: I can see the patterns in the numbers as things change and that's something that appeals to me.  I have that kind of mind though.

An intresting plotline if you're playing with a mayor/council and you want to get yourself out of having a mayor (if you want a change).
Say the mayor has been embezzling the taxes she earns on a new car
or improvements to the mansion. So now there is no money left in
the community funds to spend on the local event, for example, a
dance at the community hall. The mayor is subsequently fired and
now the citizens don't have anybody above them. This is when
business tycoons can thrive. They can buy up any unowned lots and
then rent them out to any sims wanting to start a business. No
mayor, and Sagana's business tycoon method implemented!
*
Notes: You are going to have some unowned community lots in
order for this to work with some sims that don't have a job for this to
work. Sims renting from the business tycoon have to earn more
than the rent they pay and their expenses. After playing around a
little bit, I have found this is very hard to achieve - especially
since the first few days of business are rare to see a profit anyway.

I went to download Christianlov's all in one NPC and it looks like he deleted all his hacks.  Does anyone have it ?  And does it work well with Seasons?

is that the same as the all in one controller?  if it is http://files.sims2graveyard.com/christianlov/

Speaking of political / emocomic systems of play, did Jade from Isle of Thyme ever resurface anywhere?

I think so Dragon.

Lorelei, I haven't seen any surface myself. Looks like she pulled the plug for good...or at least for a while

Is there a way for me to get in contact with the person manning (or womanning) the sims2  graveyard?

Wyn

http://sims2graveyard.com/about.html