More Awesome Than You!

I was playing Pleasantview the night before last and decided to play the Goth house which I haven't done in probably 2 months. (I'm lousy at lot synching.) The only residents living there were Dina and her toddler son, Bastian. I had sent her daughter, Mia, to college a few days previously using the University catalog tool. (I think that's what it's called. The one where you see what sims are eligible to go to Uni and send them that way rather then entering their lots.) Anyhow, I played their lot for a couple of sim days, growing Bastian from a toddler to a child, then saved and left the lot.

Since I didn't have any eligible bachelors for Dina to hook up with and I just installed TJ'S ACR for the first time, I went into CAS and created a new sim. I moved him into a lot, did the motherlode cheat, moved him back out and moved him into a swanky lot right next door to the Goth house. Dina was not part of the Welcome Wagon, so I teleported her using the simlogical teleporter. Three bolts, instant love. Dina and Robert (the CAS sim) visited for awhile then she left so my new sim could get some skill building done. Dina showed up the next day, they woohooed and she spent the night. I saved and exited his lot.

So last night I started up Pleasantview and was going to go into the Goth lot, except it was gone. Completey vanished. I went into Robert's lot and Dina was still there. I didn't save and exited the game. Went back in, the Goth lot is still missing and Dina is still at Robert's. I ended up having Robert ask Dina to move in, which she did, bringing her son with her.

I've never had a lot just disappear like that before. So is this a sign of an impending BFBVFS? I've been playing this version of Pleasantview off and on for probably close to a year. I just sent a whole slew of teens to Uni for the first time in this particular game, they're near graduation; I would really hate to lose all of that.  Checking the neighborhood census using JM's census tool, it showed that I have 105 playable characters and 376 NPCs. Is that normal? Or further signs that the Apocolypse is near?

call me a noob, but what does  BFBVFS stand for? I'm seeing it everywhere lately.  :-X

Big Fiery Ball Visible From Space


or, what your neighborhood becomes when it implodes and you lose your data

I won't call you a noob, but I will yell at you for not reading the FAQ (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,4885.0.html).

FAKE EDIT: F,b.

I was so exicted to see I finally had some replies to my question..... :-\.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

376 NPCs = your neighborhood a splode. That is not a small number. That is a very big number.

That's what I was afraid you'd say. Thanks for letting me know. :-\

The normal number for NPCs in a neighbourhood (not a Maxis one) with all EPs, one of each type of sub-hood added and with no hacks or mods preventing them generating is:

346 NPC sims

There are more in Pleasantview because it was set up by Maxis.

Kelly, could you be confusing NPCs with townies?

NPCs are maids, gardeners, drivers, etc.  If you have hundreds of those it's serious.

It's not unusual to have hundreds of townies.  Each expansion pack adds 70 or so townies.  Having hundreds of townies shouldn't cause you a problem.

What are you counting here? Service NPCs + townies + downtownies + strays + special (objects.package) Sims + orphans etc., or a subset of it?

Thanks Jordi, "service NPCs" was the term I was looking for.

maxon posted that there are 346 NPC sims in a normal neighborhood.  This is correct, because NPC just means Non Player Sim.

However, it gets confusing.  Many of us use "NPC" to mean "service NPC." 

So the question for Kelly is, do you have hundreds of "service NPCs" or just hundreds of townies, downtownies, strays, etc.

Thanks for schooling me, yo. *goes to read the FAQ*

How on earth could that many NPCs be generated? O.O I wonder if it has anything to do with that program you used to move all the college age teens to the university?

There is a weird bug present in TS2 at least up to GLS which I call the infinite gardner bug, where the game will begin mass-spawning a single NPC type. Last time it hit me I had over 400 gardeners generated. Usually this means the lot is lost. Do not save (or they become permanently added), and teleport the playables out. Then delete the lot.
If it spreads to other lots, or you are foolish enough/unlucky enough to save, your 'hood is lost.

Moving teens to uni is safe. If the game needs more townies it will spawn them (if it can -- FFS mods prevent this), but not swamp you with hundreds of them!

Using JM's census tool it was divided by Playable sims and Non-playable sims. So the 105 "playable" sims I am assuming are my sims (including Maxis premades); the 376 are "nonplayable", I don't know how those are figured as townies/downtownies/service people (i.e. gardners/nannies/proffessors/etc.). I use TJ's AlwaysPerfectPlants hack, so I never hire gardners. I also use all of JM's norespawning hacks.

However, looking in the character file in Pleasantview, it totals 575 characters. Obviously 376 + 105 does not = 575. So there are even more characters then what the census tool is stating. Of course some of those characters could be ghosts but not all of them. The only ghosts I have had are the ones that came with the Goth lot because none of my sims have died yet (except Mortimer).

By the way I have all EPs and stuff packs.

This was found to be a Portal issue, it's also known as the Npc/slowdown bug.  There are two downloads for this, though I don't think the one is needed anymore if you have all the EP's.  The remaining download is a portal checking fix, this tells you when a portal has gone missing so you don't save the lot in that state.  I deleted my links to the downloads, but I think Crammyboy has the portal checking fix.  Try looking for his threads on MTS2 and the link from that particular one to the actual fix for when the lot is already buggered.  I'm too lazy to look it up right now :D

I'm pretty sure this is the same thing you're describing.  (God knows I've stuggled with this many times in the past before the fixes).  Haven't had it since though.

Last time I used the census tool (it's been awhile, cuz now I've deleted just about everyone from my neighborhoods and can keep track of the ones left easily) it seems like I remember it giving more information than that. I thought it would tell you how many were ghosts (for example) and ...ages. I'm pretty sure it said how many toddlers I have - ages gives you a good idea where the problems are (like if 3/4s of them are YAs, there's something awry in Uni).

Playables should be, yes, all your sims and the Maxis pre-mades, so your non-playables includes townies and you're not as bad off as you would be if it were all NPCs (service types). There are a lot of townies and if you have one (or more) Uni hoods, the dormies are non-playables too so that can add up to a lot.

I'm not sure if the census tool counts the grim reaper and the remote control robots and other controller 'bots of that nature. If not, then those would be some of your extras. 575 doesn't sound so bad to me, but I'm certainly not awesome.

This will include any sims you have deleted and any hidden sims that have crept in if you have committed the unforgiveable sin of importing an occupied lot - a lot with a family that has been played.  I'd have a look at your neighbourhood with SimPE.  You'll be dismayed at the crap floating around in there.

Isn't a disappearing lot more likely to be some problem with the neighborhood terrain rather than to do with the character file count?  I didn't think bugs to do with the sims themselves manifested as disappearing lots.  I remember another recent post about another disappearing lot - I think it was in Oops I broke it...

There are two causes of portal bugs that I know of.  Crammyboy is the expert.  The first goes back to base game and happened when you cancelled a "read to kid" interraction at the wrong moment.  It was fixed in the NL/Uni patch.  The second was juggling which caused something to be deleted at random, so a portal got deleted occasionally. Juggling became a problem in NL and was fixed in the NL patch.  If the portal that allowed NPCs to leave the lot was deleted, they didn't leave.  Hence the build up of gardeners, maids etc.  Crammyboy's portal monitor tells you if a portal has been deleted so you can quit without saving.  If you have a lot with a missing portal, you either move the family out and bulldoze or replace the portal with Erzengel's fix.  You can get rid of a build up of NPCs on a lot with Inge's teleporter shrub (Tasters choice), Merola's mirror or Pescado's lotdebugger.

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=83684  ..prevention and detection by Crammyboy
http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=79045  .. fixing missing portals by Erzengel