More Awesome Than You!

Below is a link to a picture.  I'm having a weird problem in one of the dorms, in the cooking area.  Whenever the dorm cook wants to lay out the food, he insists he can't do it from where he's standing and walks round the counters to lay it from the other side.  He normally lays out just one meal, then goes back and lays the others out from the original side, which makes little sense.  Then tonight two Sims insisted they couldn't get food out of the fridge (even though they managd perfectly when I moved the fridge).  Both the Sims got the same weird image in their thought bubbles as the cook does.  It looks as if they're saying their path is blocked, but by what?  There are no stuck kicky bags according to both the lot debugger and TwoJeffs hack, so what's blocking them?  There's nothing there!  Could it possibly be connected with the ghost of the llama mascot who frequently goes in the fridge?  I can't see how though, because it's happened while he's been floating about outside and also when he's not been there at all.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  Here is the link to the photo, which shows the weird image in the thought bubble of one of the Sims: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/jools1953/MysteryObject.jpg

It sounds like an invisible stuck fridge object of some kind. Generally, the solution is to set the offending square on fire using Buyable Fire.

Sounds a bit like the Sims1 bug where someone dropped an unfinished snack and then noone would clean it up!

Looks like a kicky bag is stuck. You'll need to get that out. Right this second I don't exactly know where to send you looking for the remedy. Im not sure I even knew a war was on or what it was about. I go to San Jose for what... 3 weeks and wham... all hell breaks loose and I have to go looking for J.M. cause he aint where I left him! Check with J.M.'s hacks and see if he has one for invisible stuck objects. If you're still having problems pm me and I'll see if I have something in my game that can help you. Okay?

SimMoon

If it's a stuck kicky bag, the ffsLotDebugger will fix the problem.  You should probably download and install that puppy anyway, as it fixes a variety of problems with lots.  It's under Misc/Misc in the catalog, and is a yellow "placeholder" box that hides nicely under the foundation.

Read the RTFM included in the download for more info. 

Hook

http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=72.msg944#msg944

Hopefully that link will take you to a debugger that will fix your problem.

 ;)

I added a new command specifically to fix stucky fridges. The original poster has specified that it does not appear to be a kicky bag, so it's a new form of stuck (and fortunately flammable) object.

I tried the Buyable Fire, didn't work.  All that happened was that one of my students got fined for calling the fire brigade when there wasn't a fire!  They fire burned for quite a while, then eventually the sprinkler across the way kicked-in.  The game also let me delete all the floor tiles and replace them with new ones, which I wouldn't have expected it to if something was stuck on one of them.  I noticed today that the dorm cook had another object in his thought bubbles before the one with the footsteps, which was a collection of vertical lines, some broken some not.  They were always gone too quickly for me to get a picture, but I will keep trying. 

To be honest, I'm wondering if it's possibly a download I've recently added that's somehow causing it, because I also saw this footsteps thing in someone's thought bubble on a lot in the actual Strangetown neighbourhood today and I'd never seen it at all until a couple of days ago.  Whatever it is, it's on the tile directly in front of the fridge because they can't access the fridge and also they walk round this tile instead of over it when they are getting food from the counters. 

Anyway, I will try the stuck fridges addition, although I've changed the fridge several times already so I don't think it's anything to do with the actual fridge. 

It's not the fridge itself which is stuck, it's a stucky-fridge tile of some kind.

I'm loading up the game now as we speak to see if the new thing works.  Maybe it will help if I mention that I can place things on this tile with no problem.  Also, I can move the Sims and stand them on it.  Sometimes they sort of twirl round and move off it, then complain that they can't stand on it again, but on other occasions they will stand there quite happily.

Anyway, I will wait for the game to load to report on whether they new fix worked ... unfortunately, it didn't, mainly because no option mentioning fridges came up on the Debugger.  I tried a few experiments and I'm even more puzzled now.  It's not just the fridge that can't be used (which I think I said at the outset), but also the counter opposite it.  When I replaced the counter with the fridge, the fridge was still unusable, ditto the mini-fridge.  However, when I moved the mini-fridge back one space it could be used, but the larger fridge couldn't.  When I replaced the original fridge (in its usual position opposite the counter) with the coffee-machine, a Sim was able to stand in front of it and juggle the cups.  If I moved the fridge one space to the left or right, it could be used as normal.  This suggests to me that it isn't something on the floor, but something in mid-air, at a level higher than the mini-fridge would reach, that is blocking the opening of the fridge door.  I am still wondering if somehow the mascot ghost has something to do with it, as it's only started happening after he appeared and began messing about in the fridge.  Maybe he spawned a replica of himself and it's stuck there, or something equally silly.

Whatever it is, it looks to me as if it's there to stay, so I suppose I'm going to have to replace the lot with the original and re-furnish it.  I'll probably have to say goodbye to my mascot ghost, because bringing him back and messing about making him an NPC again wouldn't be worth the hassle.  I'd rather find out what is causing this problem though, because it's really puzzling me now. 

No, leave it there. I'll keep looking. We need it as the test case. In the meantime, force something to error and send me the log.

What do you want me to force?  I can try the fridge and the counter if you like?  Not sure if you can force an error on a floor tile (and anyway, I've changed them twice since it started, ditto the fridge come to that).  Haven't changed the counters, though.  Also, where do we post error logs, or do we email them to you?

You just post 'em right here. And you can force anything to error, it's not important. When I say "force something to error", as opposed to "force a specific thing to error", it means just FORCE AN ERROR SOMEWHERE ON THE LOT.

I don't know about a stuck kicky-bag "ball object", but I do know that sims seem obsessed with playing kicky-bag behind the service counter in kitchens, perhaps because it's the most obnoxious place with lots of traffic to block.  My sims would constantly complain and display the blocked-path icon shown in your screenshot, and not because their "bag" was stuck in anything, but rather because they had stupidly chosen a spot to play which was occupied by furniture or other structural elements, and so immediately began complaining.

Twojeffs has posted a "No Kickybag Indoors" hack which seems to work well enough to keep them from playing in the house, and I haven't noticed many sims complaining about routing since I installed it.  I'd rather see it in the form of a sign object you can hang in high-traffic rooms which do not benefit from poorly planned games of kickybag, but it works perfectly well as it is.  It's over on VS if you want to check it out.

Ten Tigers

I've managed to get a picture showing the strange lines that they are getting either prior to the footstep things or instead of them.  I did take two, one of the dorm cook and one of a YA, to show the different positions they were standing in, but the game saved one over the other.  The one here is of the YA's reaction when I told him to check the contents of the fridge.  The dorm cook was standing to the left of where he was standing, perhaps slightly further forward, trying to put a plate of food in the empty space you can see (that counter is the offending one).  I watched carefully and the offending area seems to be in front of the counter rather than the fridge (or maybe somewhere in between, because there doesn't seem to be a full two tiles between them anyway).  The dorm cook will put meals on the end space, then walk to the left past the fridge and back to the right, avoiding the space in front of the counter. The weirdest part is that when I stand them there, they don't bat an eyelid.  They just won't go there on their own.

Photo: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v734/jools1953/William.jpg

As for the error log, I can't post it because it makes the post exceed 20,000 characters (not surprised, it's VERY long, but I don't know what are the relevant bits and what aren't).  I did notice one odd thing in it, although I doubt it's connected.  It shows my "Starting Neighbourhood" as Pleasantview but I haven't played in there for about 2 weeks.  The neighbourhood the problem is in is Strangetown.  Let me know what you want me to do about the error log.  I can look for specific things in it or whatever if that might help.

You're supposed to attach it, goofus. Check out the "additional optionstuffeths".

Oops, silly me.  Blame it on the fact that I've been trying for so long to solve this mystery that it is now 6.04 am and I haven't been to bed yet.  Will try attaching it now ...

[attachment deleted by admin]

According your pictures - your kitchen space is too narrow.

If you remember TS1 manual, we were told to make at lest 2 rectangles between 2 objects, but if sims have to pass between them - we have to make at least 4 rectangles between 2 objects.

Just move the counters opposite the fridge 3-4  rectangles left - now you have enough space to move for all sims, and the cook.

Well I thought of that, but this has only started recently, it was fine before that.  I've already graduated four students from this dorm and am almost through with graduating the next batch and there was never a problem with the fridge or the counters until now.  It all started after the ghost mascot started mucking about in the fridge, as I've said before.  Anyway, it's a Maxis-created dorm, for crying out loud!  Not that I should really trust that fact, I don't suppose ...

Maxis built all the dorms very uncomfortable - you can hardly move there. I used the motherlode cheat and made all my dorms wide and spacy. None of the Maxis' dorms remained as they were built, not even the SS building - there too I smashed walls, added ladders, enlarged the kitchen space, even put new walls and floors.

Perhaps Maxis did it on purpose, to force you to redecorate the dorm - to create more complaints, thus you can see what is wrong in the decor and fix it...:).

Ancient, I looked again at your last picture. See the bubble over the head of the sim - it shows some perspective "wide going to narrow". Perhaps this is the hint you needed?

It can't be that - as I said, it worked PERFECTLY for ages, this has happened suddenly with no structural changes whatsoever.   I also noticed it in a neighbourhood house and tonight it's happened in another, the Spectre house.  Again, no structural alterations.  It happened twice there, once outside and once in the kitchen (near the fridge again).  I think the chances are it's something I've downloaded.  It definitely ISN'T the size of the rooms or anything like that, otherwise it would have happened from the start.

Well, I looked at the lot dump, but could find no references to strange, unusual objects. This remains a mystery, as it doesn't appear to be a stucky fridge tile, and you're able to place objects on the allegedly blocked tile. Try setting a few more things on fire?

OKkkkkk ... I've been to the offical BBS and guess what?  I'm not the only one with this problem.  In nearly all cases, the offending objects are appliances.  One person caught the bug after her cooker caught fire (but it was the fridge they couldn't access), but with others it's just started for no apparent reason.  NPC's seem particularly prone to it.  Not that this helps me any, but at least I know I'm not alone.  Bugs like this are worrying though, things that just start-up for no apparent reason.  I am going to try another neighbourhood tomorrow, see if it happens there as well.  If not, I will assume my Strangetown (which has hardly been played) is well & truly buggered.

It's probably only a lot-specific problem and shouldn't break your whole neighborhood. I still say you should set more stuff on fire.

Did you try replacing all your kitchen with new appliances and counters?  It could be the same as the problem you get with sofas, where a visitor leaves without properly quitting the sofa, and thereafter no-one can sit on that part of the sofa, and they can't nap there etc.  If you sell everything and build a new kitchen, it might solve the problem.

From now on, that will be my official tech support response. I will also look into making it into a t-shirt. It would be a good item on thinkgeek.com. Go well with "No, I will not fix your computer."

I still think it may just be sims autonymously picking stupid places to start kicky-bag matches, but if all else fails, I'm fairly certain that your actual gaming computer is quite flammable.

Well, I hope Ancient Sim sorts this out soon, if only to prevent another argument!  I just wish we could ban kickybags from the game altogether - they don't build fun up particularly fast, kids can't join in what is essentially something that is a kids' game, and the whole activity is irreparably flawed!

I agree, I get nervous when I hear of new bugs. I don't have much free time to play, and I hate to lose neighborhoods, lots, or sims I've worked hard on to a stupid game-bug. It makes it seem like such a waste of time, which is one thing I truly hate.

I also agree on the kicky-bag (which is actually a hacky-sack). Although it has a positive point in that it keeps several people occupied playing and watching, while raising relationships and fun ever so slightly, in the long run the negatives clearly outweigh the positives. If I had a choice, I would eliminate (or burninate) the whole thing altogether.

Ancient, if you get any news or updates on this irritating bug, please keep us up-to-date. I would appreciate it very much indeed (and I'm guessing so would many more).

G.

Man, I wish i could set that as my official tech support response. Sadly im pretty dang sure my boss would fire me in 5 seconds flat, if i started saying that... Seing as how im working on an Internet Hotline, where I on a Daily basis have to help people with a bit of tech support... Its a cruel cruel world.

Well, I know it's not a kicky-bag or hacky-sack or whatever it is (never heard of them or seen them in my life before I got University!) unless it's not being picked-up by the lot debugger, neither is it a stuck cellphone unless TwoJeffs' mod isn't finding it, and I can't think of anything else that would get stuck. 

I started fires on every single tile in the kitchen, including under the fridge.  They raged for hours, but no change.  I deleted the mascot's tombstone, no change.  I then moved the row of counters back one space and the offending counter became usable, but the fridge still wasn't.  I replaced the counter with the fridge and it could be used (before only the smaller fridge could be used when I did this, which suggests that maybe the mystery item has moved slightly?).  I then swopped the fridge with the counter containing the dishwasher and espresso machine.  The Sims could make espresso, but they couldn't use or mend the dishwasher.  The fridge was usable as normal.  I then put the cooker where the fridge normally goes and that couldn't be used.  Finally, with the fridge in its normal position I moved it 45 degrees each way.  When it faced towards the front of the kitchen (towards the cooker) it was usable.  When it faced the other way (towards the back of the kitchen, where the line of counters is) it wasn't.

This may seem like a silly question, but does the debugger remove ALL kicky bags, or just those on ground level?  I am beginning to wonder if there is a kicky bag stuck in mid-air somewhere that it isn't picking-up, although that wouldn't explain why they can stand in that space and make espresso.  I suppose I'm just going to have to accept defeat because I've run out of ideas. 

I play now in Strangetown too. Which dorm it is (number of rooms). Although I never put my sim in dorms - I am curious to see that dorm.

It's the one with 9 rooms, a flat one on the right in the middle.  Can't remember the name of it.  I doubt it would happen for you though, because as I said everything was fine until recently.  I have come to the conclusion that something is stuck in mid-air, but what it is I have no idea, especially as the Sims are able to stand in the offending position, they just can't walk across it.  It's the weirdest glitch I've ever come across because there's just no explanation for it. 

You may be on to something with the ghost of the llama mascot.  I was trying to do some renovation at the Spectre house in Strangetown -- home of many ghosts.  There were 3 floor tiles (separate, not all in a row) that I could not for the life of me remove or put a wall contiguous to.  I finally gave up and exited without saving, deciding the renovations were not meant to be.  Upon returning to the house and playing, I noticed that after nightfall ghosts appeared at two of the three spots, eventually going outside and retiring to their tombstones.  I then tried to renovate again.  The two tiles where the ghosts had appeared could now be dealt with, but the 3rd was still unchangable.  I played the house some more until a ghost appeared one night at the third tile and went outside.  After that, I could change/build around that tile as well.

"It's the one with 9 rooms, a flat one on the right in the middle." (ancient)

Yes, I found it. What I can tell - it's auful arranged. Perhaps until now you didn't have problems, because you didn't have 2 sims at once to go there.

There is only 1 square between the fridge and the opposite countes. It's OK if one sim moves there, but two sims will shout  very loud that they can't pass.

On the other end of the counters, opposite the entrance,  there is a plant-pot, which prevents  anybody to enter the kitchen from that side. So you have 1 square for 2 sims to move - and that's impossible.

I made the kitchen corner wider (3 sqares between fridge and counters), moved the plant-pot aside, to make another entrance, and deleted several chairs, which too may cause jam.

Lol, now I remember my first play of TS1. I put in the shower only 1 door. One sim wanted to enter, and the maid inside wanted to get out - they began to shout at each other; it was very funny, but  from then on I put in each shower 2 doors...:).

I will put some students there, and observe the movement. Even if you say that until now all went OK - I am positively sure that the arrangement of the kitchen is "outrageous"...:). And this dorm has NINE rooms (9 sims) - who can move there? Perhaps only Maxis...:).

I think so, too.  Your post reminded me that when I had this problem in the Spectre house, a ghost had very recently been into the fridge.  Anyway, I went back to the dorm and spawned the mascot ghost.  I watched very carefully what he did when he went to the fridge.  He opened it (NOTE THIS - THE GHOST CAN OPEN THE FRIDGE), looked in it and shut it again.  He then turned to face me and waved his hands around, moaning about someone not being 'family'.  He then turned towards the problem counter, then forward again, then disappeared.  I am seriously wondering if he is leaving something behind when he disappears, rather like teleporting when sitting down can render a chair unusable.  I also noticed that Sims can face this counter to remove plates from it, they just can't be put there in the first place. 

Anyway, to go back to what I said earlier - how come the ghost can open the fridge, but the Sims can't?  I did check after the ghost had vanished and they still couldn't open it.  Maybe we need something to "zap ghostly remnants" or something, because I am beginning to think that's what is causing this, especially with it also happening in the Spectre kitchen.  I honestly don't think it's the layout - OK, it's bad, but I have had several Sims in that kitchen before and it's not caused a problem, and the dorm cook can't put plates on that counter even when he's on his own in there.  Also, as I said earlier, even when I move the counters completely out of the way, the fridge still can't be used, nor can the dishwasher be used or mended when it's in the same position as the fridge.  Moreover, the first time I noticed this problem was when a YA wanted to cook a meal and moaned about not being able to access the fridge.  At the time, there was no one in the kitchen and the dorm cook had already left for the night.  It was also about that time (probably the same night) that the ghost appeared for the first time.  Having covered all possibilities, I am now more or less convinced that the ghost is the cause of this, especially as he is perfectly capable of opening the fridge.

I had a problem very similar happen to me and I dont know what causes it. The space gets warped somehow. What I mean is I have noticed that occasionally for whatever reason if I go into build mode and try to do something I get an error about terrain not level or something, then I turn on the elevation cheat and find that an area has mysteriously warped for some reason. Its usually just a tile or two that is dipped and I can straighten it out with the level.

This almost always happened because of ghosts being on the lot, but I seem to remember it happening a few times to lots where I didnt keep the tombstone and I was simply culling certain townies etc..

Sheesh, okay, so now my paranoia is running rampant. First I read Brynne's post about the lamp and now yours, Ancient and Phyllis, and now I'm seriously considering not playing any of my haunted lots at all. That is until JM (or TJ) come up with a fix for that.

Hopefully that can be done. I have made up my mind while typing this: as it is now, I'm not touching the lots again until I find out if there are remedies. These bugs have the tendency to turn into monsters, and I am far to fond of my village to risk its existence.

G.

Ancient, when you spawned the ghost and saw him, couldn't you delete him with moveobjects on? Or "remove visitors" with Inge's teleporter?

And did you try to replace the fridge and the counter with new ones? 'objects in use' can be moved only with moveobjects on.

I am glad you found the problem, but still that kitchen is very ugly arranged...:).

Deleting the ghost doesn't help, it wouldn't if he has left traces of himself behind.  I've also completely replaced everything in the kitchen.  The fridge is new, so is the counter.  I think the key to this is the fact that the ghost is perfectly capable of opening the fridge. 

If you deleted his tombstone, then his ghost shouldn't be appearing anymore, should it?

It sounds like the ghost has taken up residence in that floor tile somehow .....

I'd be tempted to deleted the ghost's character file, but from what I've been reading here on the forum that could be problematic if you don't delete everyone's memories of him as well.

Curiouser and curiouser ......


Edited to add:  I was just looking at the thread on being scared by a lamp (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=89.0), and it made me wonder if you'd tried the updated lot debugger?

Before learning that installing houses with families was a problem, I too had a issues with floor tiles.  I was playing my favourite house and ran into problems so I deleted the family & lot and installed a backup copy.  Unfortunately I had exported the lot whilst a ghost was roaming around the house.  The lot therefore had a lamp that would scare the maid and cause the children to sleep in mid air instead of their beds.  On closer inspection it appeared that the floor tile, the bedside cabinet and lamp were all affected.  As the house was nicely furnished and had custom paintings, I exported the lot and installed just the lot using the Clean Installer.  Even then the stuck floor tile, table and lamp remained.  Whilst I could delete the objects with moveobjects, nothing would free the floor tile.  Only removing the family from the initial house and then moving them back in resolved my issues.

In a clean neighbourhood I tried importing the lot without the family and I had the same issues.  Whatever caused the lamp to be possessed still remained.  I moved in a new sim and she too had issues in the bugged room namely the strange warping and sleeping in mid air.  I've since restarted the game and everything is fine.  However I have no ghosts  ;)

I only deleted the gravestone temporarily, I didn't save.  The "ghost emitter" option in the debugger is interesting (whatever it is), but it doesn't show-up in my game.  I have what appears to be the current version, updated 20th July.  Can't see anything more up-to-date than that.  Back I go into the game to try yet another time ...

Well, it gets more intriguing.  When the dorm cook was moaning again about not being able to put his plate on the counter, I picked him up and stood him in front of the thing (and swore at him).  He put it down quite happily, then suddenly 'came to', realised where he was, jumped back and started moaning that he couldn't access it again.  I've noticed that several of them 'jump' off this spot, which suggests the ghost connection again - must have been a delayed reaction as he had nothing to put on it anymore.  I did finally see the fix fridge tile thing come up, but unfortunately it didn't alter anything.   What is really odd is that I found 4 stray graduated YA's on the lot (not revealed by Merola's Mirror or Inge's Teleporter Plus).  They left the lot like ten neighbourhood years ago.  Needless to say, getting rid of them made no difference either.  I even brought the mascot back to life with the Resurrector, but that didn't alter anything, so I will be re-instating my back-up so he's dead again, because I am positive that he is the key to this.  There has to be a reason why he is the only one who can open the fridge in the position it's in.

OK STUPIDITY ALERT HERE<
but i've got a hacky sack prob and i downloaded the fix, but i'm not sure how to use it to debug my house, what exactly do you have to click on or whatever?

You downloaded the Lot Debugger? It's a buyable item, in Misc/Misc. You place it somewhere on your lot, then click it, and "Nuke kicky bags" should be an option if your prob is stuck kicky bags.

I hate that bug! Hate hate hate it! I've redesigned one of the dorms in my Strangetown uni and I want to copy that dorm to my Pleasantview uni. However, I'm not sure how to "clean" the dorm to make it safe to copy. I've found that moving playable sims out of the dorm isn't enough to "clean" it for a new family - the Myne doors are left with the old playable sims' claims on them, so new ones can't claim them until I boolprop enable Build Mode to replace the doors. Plus, playing sims that live in a dorm gets expensive when chairs and beds are randomly left with the ghostly imprints of sims there - I find myself deleting "stuck" objects with move_objects on every sim day.

So, bearing in mind that it's a bad idea to copy houses that are packaged with a family to a new neighbourhood, I haven't dared try to copy the dorm file across to my other uni, because there's obviously something stopping them from "cleaning" out old sim information. I'm wondering if J.M. or anyone else has some advice. Could I, f'instance, boolprop force the lot to Community to "clean" it, then boolprop it back to Dorm? (sounds potentially hazardous)

If an object is "stuck" in use, like a chair, the easiest way to reset the chair is to Force Error on the stuck chair. Note that for couches, you have to force the error on the specifically stuck piece of couch.

And if you send me unsolicited error logs about forced errors, I will slap you.

Banned On Rentech.com!


http://www.rentech.com

JM, I'm surprised to find this South African alternative energy website has even heard of you, and why on earth would they ban you?