More Awesome Than You!

Now, I have NO problem with female looking males....But, I'm wondering if anyone can offer any theories as to why exactly almost every male sim created by a woman (especially @ MTS) looks like a woman.  I'm actually just wondering about the psychology behind it.
THere's nothing else in the world I've noticed that is quite like this phenomenon in the sims world.

Overall, I look at it as a good thing since it seems that this (hopefully) means an openness to gayness..But, why the sim world of all places?

My tentative theory is that perhaps many woman who play the sims now have the ability to play house and dress up boys however they like...but, that's really the only theory that seems viable to me.

Any psychologists in the room??

I'm guessing it's that whole anime/bishounen thing, and making sims look proper many rugged sometimes results in fugly genetics...

Perhaps, but in my game I've found that mixing manliness with a women's genes often looks far better.  The anime theory is a good one, though.

A lot of the most rabid creators (like the ones who get insulted if you ask them to morph one of their "male" styles to female) are women obessed with yaoi/shonen-ai. They can get heavy with the PMS, and are best avoided or tip-toed around! ;) I admit I do like the occasional fem guy in my Sims, but I mostly make average Joes. (Besides, facial hair is one of my turn-ons, and that just doesn't look right on a bishonen!)

I've noticed this, and I don't particularly like the way they look myself. I mean, having some guy Sims that look like they wear make-up or something wouldn't bother me, but there's definitely a major lacking of manly Sims. Especially custom hairs that would qualify as that, even though there are admittedly less masculine styles able to be made, probably. I'm a bit inexperienced when it comes to genetics that end up looking good myself, so I couldn't say if they came out looking a bit townie-esque myself.

 The guys in game definitely have mild wrinkles, too. I used to be bothered by it, so I just altered all the skintones so that they had a teen Sim's skin on his face instead. I don't remember if it gave them weird color match ups or anything, but it definitely would do for elders.

I don't really like the feminine males. I only download ones that look at least a little more rugged..but then that is my personal taste. I have never really been interested in pretty boys. Give me a guy with a few wrinkles and a 4 o'clock shadow and I am happy. :)

It's the whole bishi thing. You'll find it in almost any online community with women sharing images that they've either created or like. I've seen it in an Everquest art community and I've seen it in the 'casting call' pictures people choose for thier characters in roleplaying communities.

To a certain degree, I think it is also associated with the "Women like thinking about gay sex while Men like thinking about lesbian sex." It's just something not everyone expects to see.

That's a very good point!  I hadn't thought of that...

I think there's an element of women being attracted to feminine faces, but I also think it has to do with so many of the standard male face templates being so hideous.

Look at Monkey in my avatar - he's not girly-looking, but from some angles he's definitely gorilla-looking.

But Mungo and Addy look so cute together in that picture!

That's because you can't see his profile.

I think it mostly has to do with beautiful features being easier to make than handsome features.
A beautiful face basically just needs to be symetrical and evenly proportioned, and since sims are symetrical by default...  Rugged handsomeness is about being ugly in small and perfectly placed amounts; that's hard to get right.

I used to have a theory that women could be either sexy or beautiful to be attractive, while men had the option to be cute, beautiful or handsome, and you pretty much have to be a Maxis CAS face template to not fall into any of those three.
Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm "cute" at best...

It's because so many girls think pretty boys are hot(myself included), not always just to do with anime. I hate hairy muscular men, then agian Im bi, so maybe that has something to do with it

Because Rohina is the only one saying it, I'm going to back this up.

Just as it's easier for a girl to be good-looking than a guy is, it's easier to make a good-looking feminine face than a good-looking masculine one.  That probably explains a lot of bishou even before you have to ask questions about poly count inherent to any video game environment.  So lots of modders, especially if they like using the newest custom content (either to fine-tune coloration or just to try out their newest makeup) will go for the feminine styles that go well with most things.

What gets me more are the lack of non-Maxis, non-over the top plain faces.  Sometimes what I'm really looking for is someone plain or even a little awkwards to fill out my neighborhood, and they all tend to gravitate to the same maxian templates.

Insim.net has a quite a few sims based on the bodybuilder meshes, and there's at least one person (of course, name escapes me now, and I'm at work, so I can't search) who makes rather manly sims, and even had an awkward middle-aged guy who'd gotten rather thick in the middle and has a red nose from drinking too much.

What follows is only a rapid theory. It surely will be dumbly written, part because my english is really rusted, part because I try not to use "technical terminology".

"playing" - or creating - a sim means you can "incarnate" in it.
You "project yourself" in it, you animate it by "putting" inside a part of your attention/emotions, etc.
We could represent like the "possession" of the sim by the player (like in the exorcist:) )

The more the "animated" object seems "familiar" or "desirable", the easier it is to animate it.
Mainly, the process of "projecting yourself in some object" is easier when you can "identify" yourself with it.

It could partly explain the "self sim" effect: it is easier to invest yourself in your sim when you can recognize yourself in it.

But "identification" does not mean "perfect similitude to you". You can easily  "identify" to many different thing: a desired object, an object of fear, are easy to identify with.

"cross sexual identification" - the identification to a "person" of different gender - is not easy. gender difference is, for the human mind, something very mysterious - mainly because the body ( anatomically, but also on chemical level) and the personal history make it so that you can NEVER exactly know what it FEELS to be of another gender.

So, you have to "change" the sim to make it more easy to identify with.
A male with feminine traits will be easier to create/play for a woman, because he is "partly" woman: you can use the "woman" part as a firm ground, and concentrate on the remaining "male" parts.
"Acting" completely like a man would be "impossible", so the player has to only play "parts" of the male role.

(all of this is unconscious, or pre-conscious, it's an instinctive, uncontrolled behavior)

Men do exactly the same thing: it is impossible for us to "instinctively" act as woman (or at least we think it is), so our "women" sims often have many manly traits, in personality at least.
Or traits that men believe to be feminine.

The yaoi/gay love works on the same ground.
Pornography works if you identify with one of the "actors" or with the eye looking the scene.
As the other gender's body/sensation (or, in a more generic way, the body, feeling, sensations, of anyone but ourselves) are mysteries, a good part of pornography  is about trying to identify to the other gender, and participate in it's pleasure.
For men, it leads to lesbian fascination, but also to the "two men for a girl" thing,etc.

Mainly, in pornography as well as in sim creation/play, we have three opposed and complementary moves:
* try to understand what is different by focusing on what is similar (a man with feminine traits is partly understood, representation of the other gender experiencing known sexual sensations makes identification easier, etc)
* try to burninate the difference, reducing the "other" to something that is not different from you, or of what you think it is
* focus on the mystery

I know I am not clear - and anyway I am not sure it's podium material.

Anyway: everything we create (and playing is creating) comes from within us. We must use a "bit" of ourselves to sculpt our creations. So when we try to create something different from us, we have to use what we "dream"/"think we know"/"can understand" of what we are trying to create.  Or at least some tricks making our creation "not so different".

I once watched a documentary which looked into this area. It basically said women in the ovulating period tended to be attracted by more 'manly' men. Because of the instict to reproduce with the stronger more dominant types, and give your child the best chances of survival after birth and throughout their lives.
On the other days of the menstrual cycle, they tend to go for more softer lines of the face, less hairy, so more feminine-type faces, for the emotional type of guy, presumably.
At least that's what I remember about it. (Professor Robert Winston's Human body series I think-been a while)

i think that the ppl are looking alwasy for a real, or more textured, character...
on MTS2 the textured sims, on this last month are decuplicated... and now it a "way to made it"
It's logical, i think that the most ppl that made sims are girls and they never made a male like "HE MAN (http://www.madman.com.au/he-man/wallpaper/heman_1024.jpg)"

or like Adelmo Impestato
(http://www.max3d.it/simSite/Download/M3D-AgenoreImpestato_f.jpg)

Girls yes. Specifically the 12 and under who have never ovulated.

I must be in a constant state of ovulation.  :D :D :D I don't mind the pretty boy look. in boys and teens. But I'd really like to see creators try and make more rugged guys. Whenever I see one of those up, I immediately grab it, regardless of him being ugly or not. You gotta have a little ugly in the genepool to make life interesting. :D

Thanks!  Adelmo and his bro will be in my game soon!

I learned in my biological anthropology courses that each generation of male has successively more feminine features. The average current male facial structure resembles what the female facial structure looked like about 3 generations back. What women look like now, will be what men may look like in about 50-70 years if the trend continues.

Most of the anthropologists that I saw speak on the subject tended to think it was because women are unconsciously selecting to mate with men that are less "threatening." While they may at times be attracted to the "rugged" type, they tend to select men that are less physically threatening or able to hurt them. This is especially prevalent in the last century as "ruggedness" was no longer a good indicator that a man could provide. In fact, ruggedness is now being selected against, as more and more men are earning money in "soft" professions.

If you want to know the truth it's because, despite our fellow gamer's best efforts to make sims look as realistic as possible, they still always look like cartoons.  And let's face it... all cartoons look like girls.  Now if only all cartoons looked like Jessica Rabbit, how awesome would that be!

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bd/Jessica_rabbit.jpg)

cool  ;D

So that's why all of my great-great-grandmothers looked like those old men I see hanging out at the laundromat.

(http://photos.bravenet.com/828/831/978/F5031D6DE4.jpg)

It also answers the age old question: where are all the hotties in history?

Answer: Didn't exist. Everyone was ugly and didn't know better. Mona Lisa was probably the smokin'est babe Da Vinci could find to paint.

I have to say that I find it easy to make beautiful male sims....sometimes even easier than women.  And that goes for both feminine and masculine type male sims....
I also find that I'm more forgiving of a man's facial "imperfections" than I am of a woman's...And that's a real stunner since I typically like the ladies, heehee.

Also, I do believe, the people who say that women like more feminine men is a valid point.

Maybe we should start a "Brawny Man Sims" thread in peasantry! ;)

Hmm. That theory does explain the whole historical "beauties" bit. Almost every single person rumoured to be a "beauty" in history has been plain, kinda pretty at best, IMO.

And maybe the male selection is so girly b/c pretty boys are just more attractive. Someone like "Ah-nould" does not make me feel all tingly inside. The most physically "masculine" that's still hot, IMO, is someone like Wentworth Miller or Channing Tatum. Beyond that and it's kinda icky. Just my opinion though. :P

Check out ThyGuy's self-sim at
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,6355.0.html
Looks pretty rugged to me.  Maybe some other self-sims are in the masculine/not-pretty range.

Awesome information...  Just the sort of thing I was hoping to get from people here.

Indeed!  What an interesting concept.

That I learned, or that it was anthropology?
Because both can be explained.

 :) I found the theory very interesting. What might have confused the issue was my incomplete quoting of your post. Sorry for the confusion.

intresting indeed...
maybe it's a way to meet the peace on the world, my mother say it's the men that made wars :P
or maybe in 1000years we will have a sort fo amazon's planet  ;D

I wouldn't worry about that. The trend should reverse itself in the next 10 years when girlymen fall out of favor in as people struggle to survive in the wasteland that will follow the collapse of modern society and people have to kill each other over what is left to survive.

Not so... It's just that the perception of "beauty" has changed along with society. Those hotties were there it's simply that different criteria were needed to make it to those exalted ranks and you only have to check out paintings from various different artists - spread across the centuries - to verify this. Most notable is Rembrandt whose personal choice was for ladies that tended to be on the wholesome side.  :D Anyhoo, beauty is very much an individual perspective and it differs from culture to culture hugely, as well as being somewhat muteable within our own jaded societal experience.

Very true -- the Rubenesque women that were the beauties in Ruben's day would be considered overweight, if not downright fat, today.  Which is a pity, because the rail-thin 'ideal woman' the fashion industry pushes today just doesn't appeal to me (and probably most men).  Ya need something to hold on to, after all. :)

Well, absolutely. I was just being facetious.  ;) Beauty is a completely relative concept and has evolved along side our morphology. The modern Western ideal of beauty (because while not everyone agrees on what is beautiful, there are certain people that are largely accepted as so) did not exist in the time of Rembrant because those physical characteristics didn't exist in the general populace. In it's context, Primavera is the Renaissance ideal of feminine beauty. Most modern viewers, however, might decide that she was decidedly plain. Hence, Mona Lisa was probably pretty hot though I'd be hard pressed to name a person in my intimate circle that would want to hit that.

Certainly, by their time's standards, there are beautiful people in history. When we look at art, we tend to wonder where all the good looking people are because our standard has evolved with each generation. Anthropologists can easily take human skulls and show that evolution is occurring in the human form within our lifetimes. This means that our ideal of beauty is not just a culturally perpetrated ideal, but a result of our changing biology. I adore this particular theory because it's the best support for evolutionary theory: evolution you can see by comparing human skulls within the last hundred years rather than having to venture to prehistory.

Judging by the ten dollar bill, Alexander Hamilton was one handsome founding father.

I had a good laugh over this comment!  Heehee...
I do think to a certain degree, that it's true. Even though people's perception of beauty changes, I still believe that people become more and more genetically beautiful, especially since people are now breeding with people of different nationalities which seems to make some of the most beautiful children.
So, even though Stitches was being funny, this is partially true.

Point taken.
They wouldn't make good food, though, those girlymen. Who wants skin and bones after all?

Oh, I totally had the hots for Alexander Hamilton when I was studying him in HS. Lol. And speaking of beautiful dead pple, the Romanovs were gorgeous too.


Among the heavier set there are beauties and there are fuglies, as w/ skinny folks. Beauties can be fat, and fuglies can be skinny. I mean, none of those townie sims w/ the perfect bodies and neanderthal faces could possibly be deemed beautiful. So I don't think our attitude towards weight is sufficient at all to suggest that our perception of beauty itself has changed. Rather, it seems to be more a reflection of the fashion of the period. Not to say that our perception of beauty hasn't changed, of course. Just that the way we regard weight isn't enough to support this assumption.

And on a related note, I hate how pple love to bash on the skinny folks. There are lots of naturally skinny girls out there. LOTS. Just b/c America is so frigging HUGE doesn't mean that "real" women are chubby, and anyone skinny is automatically a sheepie drone who willingly starves herself to oblivion. I love how so many pple who say that "real" women come in all sizes seem to be oblivious to the fact that yes, real women do come in all sizes, on both sides of the size spectrum. And I also love how some of those who criticize anorexically skinny ias disgustingly and dangerously unhealthy seem to have no problem w/ the grossly overweight. I mean, gosh, hypocritical much?

That wasn't directed at anyone here, btw., just a very frustrated rant on the general attitudes that seem to prevail when it comes to issues of weight.

Skinny girls have feelings too!  :(

Some of the nicest and sweetest girls I know are extremely skinny.
Still I feel kinda strange when I hug them.

I find this hilarious considering I'm one of those more or less naturally skinny girls (and according to Pescado's reckoning, I'll be 36 for a few more years yet).  My aunt, who used to be thin, blurfed up due to a medical issue, and now keeps giving me the eye and asking my mum (behind my back) if I'm anorexic.  *gasps*

Related to the topic, however, I personally don't get a lot out of 'rugged good looks.'  I frequently think they look mean, or intimidating, or flat out unattractive.  Give me Cloud Strife (of Advent Children, naturally) any day of the week.  I tend to appreciate features that mix the best of both genders.  I mean, Arnold might have had a fantastic build, but I'd run in fear of my life if I was ever confronted with that monstrosity trying to get in my bed.

(Having said that, I've always gone for tall, thin, geeky blonds, but married a shorter, somewhat hefty, geeky brunette.)

Looking mean and intimidating is sort of the point. It scares off the predators. I even like my women to look mean and intimidating. You know, with teeth, spinities, and angry eyebrows.

Yes, but you're like.. a legend in your own mind.  Of course you want women of that sort.

I perfer manly men with facial hair and chest hair.

Oh, I have no problem with naturally skinny women, but even then most of them are more than a size 0 or 1. :) Hell, I heard or read somewhere that some of those models' sizes are in the minus number sizes, which I didn't even think was possible.  It's the unhealthy extremes I was commenting about, and yes, that goes both ways.  We do have a serious problem in this country with obesity, which becomes very obvious when visiting any other country, or just going to any Disney or Universal theme park -- probably any theme park at all.

For sure, so long as that doesn't translate to hairy backs!

How do you have a negative size? Does this mean you're inside out and that your insides are now your outsides?

`No money is worth the life of your child'
Mother mourns death of model

5'8" anorexic weighed 88 lbs.
Nov. 17, 2006. 01:00 AM
ANDREI KHALIP
REUTERS NEWS AGENCY


RIO DE JANEIRO—The mother of a Brazilian fashion model who died from complications of anorexia has made an emotional appeal for parents to take better care of aspiring young models.

Ana Carolina Reston's death follows growing criticism of the use of underweight models in the fashion world, an issue given new significance after the August death of Uruguayan model Luisel Ramos of heart failure during a fashion show in Montevideo.

Reston, 21, died Tuesday in a Sao Paulo hospital from a generalized infection caused by anorexia, an eating disorder in which sufferers obsessively deprive themselves of food. Reston weighed only 88 pounds and was about 5 feet, 8 inches tall. Doctors consider the weight normal for a 12-year-old girl about 5 feet tall.

"Take care of your children ... no money is worth the life of your child, not even the most famous (fashion) brand is worth this," her mother, Miriam, told O Globo newspaper.

She said her daughter had been trying to help her family with the money she made as a model. She said she had pleaded with her daughter to eat more and to see a doctor. O Dia tabloid carried a picture of the dark-haired, big-eyed girl in lingerie on its front-page with the headline "Dictatorship of skinny look kills a model."

Many top models come from Brazil and many young girls from all walks of life dream about the catwalk, inspired by the international success of Brazilians Gisele Bundchen or Adriana Lima.

Reston was not famous but she had worked abroad, including in Japan. Her agency, L'Equipe of Brazil, said yesterday it had sent Reston to a specialist in eating disorders after she lost her job in Japan for being too thin but she missed her appointments.

"L'Equipe reiterates its philosophy of taking care of the health of its models," the agency's statement said.

"They still say she had a perfect body," model Patty Oliveira, 18, said in one of several online communities created as a tribute to Reston. "But a perfect body is a healthy body. I'm a model and I know how things work. She passed the limits."

The fashion world was rocked in September when Spain's top show barred models below a certain weight. Those with a body-mass-index (BMI), which takes into account height and weight, of less than 18 were banned. Reston's BMI was 13.5; the World Health Organization considers anyone with a BMI below 18.5 underweight. A BMI below 17.5 is a criterion for the diagnosis of anorexia nervosa and a BMI nearing 15 is usually used as an indicator for starvation.

and

Anorexia claims another Brazilian model's life
Ana Carolina Reston, 5'8", weighed just 88 pounds at death
Nov. 16, 2006. 05:29 PM
REUTERS


RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil - The mother of a Brazilian fashion model who died from complications of anorexia has made an emotional appeal for parents to take better care of aspiring young models.
The death of Ana Carolina Reston, 21, follows growing criticism of the use of underweight models in the fashion world, an issue given new significance after the death in August of Uruguayan model Luisel Ramos of heart failure during a fashion show in Montevideo.

Reston died Tuesday in a Sao Paulo hospital from a generalized infection caused by anorexia, an eating disorder in which sufferers obsessively deprive themselves of food in pursuit of an ultra-slim look.

Reston weighed only 88 pounds and was about 5 feet 8 inches tall. Doctors consider the weight normal for a 12-year-old girl about 5 feet tall.

"Take care of your children ... no money is worth the life of your child, not even the most famous (fashion) brand is worth this," her mother, Miriam, told O Globo newspaper.

She said her daughter had been trying to help her family with the money she made as a model. Miriam spoke on national television and to local media to highlight the tragedy.

She said she had pleaded with her daughter to eat more and to see a doctor. "She would reply, 'Mummy, don't mess me around,"' Miriam told O Estado de S.Paulo.

O Dia tabloid carried a picture of the dark-haired, big-eyed girl in lingerie on its front-page with the headline "Dictatorship of skinny look kills a model."

Many top models come from Brazil and many young girls from all walks of life dream about the catwalk, inspired by the international success of Brazilians Gisele Bundchen or Adriana Lima.

Reston was not famous but she had worked abroad, including in Japan, and did some Giorgio Armani advertising jobs.

Her agency, L'Equipe of Brazil, said Thursday it had sent Reston to a specialist in eating disorders after she lost her job in Japan for being too thin but she missed her appointments.

"L'Equipe reiterates its philosophy of taking care of the health of its models," the agency's statement said.

It said the agency did not demand its models be super-slim.

"I'm shocked with what happened but we should not hide the fact that she was on the wrong path regarding her own health," model Patty Oliveira, 18, said in one of several online communities created as a tribute to Reston.

Despite her weight, Reston's online profile on the popular social networking site Orkut showed she was a member of food-related communities like "I love McDonald's" and "I love French fries." She was also part of the "Skinny ones rule" group.

"They still say she had a perfect body," Oliveira said. "But a perfect body is a healthy body. I'm a model and I know how things work. She passed the limits."

In September, Spain caused a storm in the fashion world when Madrid barred models below a certain weight from its top fashion show. Models with a body-mass-index (BMI), which takes into account height and weight, of less than 18 were banned.

Reston's BMI was just 13.5 while the World Health Organization considers anyone with a BMI below 18.5 underweight. A BMI below 17.5 is one of the criteria for the diagnosis of anorexia nervosa and a BMI nearing 15 is usually used as an indicator for starvation.

I don't see the appeal of the skinny stick look. I prefer women that won't break in half when I hurl them into a wall.

A friend of mine has a naturally skinny girlfriend, he is also attracted to heavier girls.  I was curious as to his personal tastes in women and he told me that it has nothing to do with weight or size, but proportion, as long as the waist narrows and the hips flare out, he's happy (breast size didn't come into it).

For me, I've never been attracted to pretty boys with fine features.  I like strong jaw lines & big shoulders, but hate too much muscle.  Being petite, I always seem to be attracted to ridiculously tall men but I'm sure that's to give any future male offspring a good chance of being at least close to six foot!  I remember, my first crush as a little girl, it was Starsky, from Starsky and Hutch.  All the little girls in the playground mooned over David Soul (Hutch) but I wanted the funny one who wasn't a classically good looking guy (even though I didn't understand about crushes back then).  My tastes have obviously changed some thrity years later but I suppose my point is, I don't like fine features and have always shied away from pretty boys.

Funnily enough, when Charlie's Angels first aired, my favourite was Sabrina, and when my friends and I played Charlie's Angels, I always got to be Sabrina as the other girls wanted to be the pretty one.  Silly girls, Sabrina was the one with the brains!



Edited to spell tastes instead of tates ::)

kinda reminds me of the Ginger VS MaryAnne debate about the girls from Gilligans Island

definitely a MaryAnne fan  here  ;D


oh and the Jennifer VS Bailey debate about WKRP

big Bailey fan   ;)

I had to look Gilligan's Island up as I'm not sure if it ever aired in the UK.  I would have preferred MaryAnne too from what I've read - hell who wouldn't prefer a girl who can man a farm singlehanded ;)

Um...what do those articles have to do w/ my argument? Just b/c anorexia exists means that women can't be naturally skinny? Or that everyone skinny is anorexic? Please. ::)

And when did I ever defend the extremes? If you're 5'8" and 88 lbs, it's clearly a psychological problem that goes FAR beyond merely cultural influences. Cultural standards of beauty alone do not make you anorexic. It can be a trigger for those w/ a predisposition toward body dysmorphic disorders, but it does not cause anorexia.

I'm actually not that skinny - size 2-4 depending on the brand, and no way could I fit into a size 0 - but I just hate how these arguments regarding weight are so often totally one sided, and in America, often on the side of the heavier folks.

On the girly-man vs. rugged man debate:

Well, I would have taken both Legolas and Aragorn home with me... ;)

Oh yeah, Aragorn is hot, but as "rugged" as he is, he is still undeniably very pretty. So he's still a pretty boy, just rougher around the edges.

I don't know that I'd really call Viggo Mortenson 'pretty'. He's actually a little too odd looking to be pretty. Though, I guess with the Aragorn scruff and long hair, he does have a bit of pretty about him. Eh. Whichever.

To be honest, I'd probably have taken the whole Fellowship cast home, so to speak. The hobbits are all damn cute when normal sized, and I'd love to have tea with John Rhys Davies and Ian McKellan.

Aragorn pretty?  I don't find him pretty at all and I'd take him home for more than just tea, perhaps a scone with jam & cream - what did you think I was going to say?

Sean Bean (Boromir) another fine looking man and not in your pretty category.

I think all of the debate about skinny and heavy is fruitless.  There are pros and cons to each side, and the best is in the middle.  If you're skinny by nature, but you eat healthy food, you can be just as healthy as a moderately sized person.  The problems that come up (on both sides) are the health risks. 
So, unless you're looking for people that you can throw into walls that can bounce back and still be of use to Pescado.....
there are beautiful people on each side of the moderate spectrum, and as long as people are healthy, who gives a S##t!

because you mentioned "starves herself to oblivion"; the latest death and the the Spanish decision seem very apt
you mentioned 'drones starving themselves' and I gave an example of that starving drone mentality

I don't care even if they aren't healthy. If they starve to death, at least there will be something to point and laugh at.

I'm so glad that this topic was brought up here, because the same question was running through my mind.  I too like pretty boys, but I do like them to at least look male.  I've seen a lot of sims that I thought were female (from seeing the face), until I read the description.  I don't know why other girls do it, but for myself I find the more feminine face of a pretty boy to be more attractive than a rugged face.  This is especially obvious in the sims, where it can be hard to get a sim to be ruggedly handsome without looking ugly.  It's easier in real life to be ruggedly handsome, but I prefer pretty boys in real life too...especially punky or gothy ones. 

That is really fascinating about humans becoming more beautiful as the generations go on.  I can definitely see the trend.  Those women (and the men who swing that way ;) )that live a few generations from now (if the world is still around that is) are going to be so lucky! Think of all the pretty boys there will be then to choose from! LOL!

Great topic!

Dream

Oh god, just... word.
I searched everywhere for good, non-bishie male hairstyles (I never was a Sephiroth fan ;)), and woes, found none. I couldn't even find a shaved head (not completely bald), though I did find one for females. When it comes to male hair, I'm all for short, just a little stubble is best. :)

And as to the question posted in the topic - no idea, but I stopped questioning why people do stuff ;)

*off to work on sim!WillemDafoe*

Well, I doubt that any of the women in your harem have a fighting chance to be hefty enough to suit your needs...They'll all end up withering away to nothing to serve your comedic pleasure.
Good luck with that.  ::)

Yeah..and I said that someone skinny isn't automatically a sheepie drone who starves herself to oblivion. Unless that's the argument you're trying to make, I don't get the point of quoting random articles w/ no explicating comments.


Well my original point was just that lots of pple love to bash, moderately skinny or very. And then it went from there. But yeah. It shouldn't be such a big deal. The media makes it seem that way, but really, it shouldn't matter so much.

IMO it probably has a lot to do with individual tastes, but the difference in seeing a Sim in CAS and seeing them in game is something I tend to take into account. Most of my male Sims have a touch of eye liner and blush as well as facial hair, due to the fact that they lose accent when seen in the distance in-game, if that makes any sense. My rugged, non-made-up Sims all seemed somewhat washed-out and dull when played, whereas they had distinctive looks in CAS. OTOH, the more accentuated faces were easily recognizable in game play without having to zoom in.

This thread oh so appropriate after viewing the Man of the Season contest at Insim. (disclaimer: I do like insim, except for the fancy boys). If I wanted my men to look like women, I'd just date a tranny.

Actually, it's about 13 more years before the colapse; which will occur at 12:00am on January 1st 2020. A masive power outage in the north east, caused by the minions of a doomsday cult who are eager to hasten in the "end times", sends a false signal to a series of missile launching silos. Presto, WW3; which lasts all of 30 minutes. 

Sean Bean? Sharpe? Oh yes! We just have to compare notes sometime as we have remarkably similar taste...  ;D

On another note, isn't it interesting how this thread has evolved into the weight issue again? It seems that despite all our protestations it is something that looms in the public psyche when really it should mean feck all. I believe that the rule of thumb is the waist/hip ratio for blokes and what they find attractive as this denotes a breeder and that we ladies have the upper hand because we're likely to go for a male that is able to look after us - and our dependent offspring for the many years it takes for them (spawn - not men  :P) to come to maturity. In this respect, being a bit on the flabby side for a woman would be an evolutionary advantage (healthier and more secure pregnancies) as she can stock food on her hips. We are animals, pure and simple and, although what we are is covered over by a very thin veneer, instinct will out very occasionally.

Any time Laeshanin ;)

So how does this explain why I'm attracted to teeth, spinities, and angry-eyebrows?

A fetish perhaps?

Trepie is the only one that succeeded to create a male sim who doesn't look feminine, and still is gorgeous. I use his model (in various looks) to create my male sims.

...Apropo, JMP-sim is not bad at all, without the long beard...:).

(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c230/gali123/graduation/graduationparty.jpg)

Well, that still falls into the pretty boy category for me. Maybe I just have a wider definition for pretty boy. I think my general criteria is if I think he's hot, then he's pretty. Lol.

And is JM really? I think I'll have to d/l him now to see. :P

Yes, idtiminger, it is JMP; I cloned him to a YA at the Body Shop, and here he is at his graduation party.

Yeah, Trepie is in all my neighborhoods.  When I was making sim Trepie, which I just changed the eyebrows and a slightly different hair, my hubby asked me why all my male sims look like Walker: Texas Ranger.  I don't think they do, but I do like manly looking men.

Dwayne Johnson (aka The Rock) is my heartthrob.

C

Those most certainly aren't my eyes or my hair. And part of the contributing factor is undoubtedly the invariant sim bodytype: The real me is somewhat squat and wide, like an oversized dwarf. And hairy. I am very hairy. I even have cheek whiskers, that the game simply doesn't have. They stick straight out and allow me to sense vibrations, such as those produced by incoming tigers, or soon-to-be-dead Galis. My real head is also slightly asymmetrically lopsided, which can't happen in sims.

And that is also the BlueSoup rendering, which suffers from BLUESOUP DISTORTION. It's hard to get a clear image with a head so fat like that. Let's not forget the lensing effect produced by the light being warped by the gravitational field generated by BlueSoup's enormously fat head before she sees it.

Most pple are flattered when they're called good-looking, JM. :P

Auto-eroticism.

back to this theory,  which i also saw in a documentary.. there was a second part of the postulation which i dont think was provided.. forgive me if i repeat something..  that the reason for the more emotive/feminine male attraction most of the time was because your best dna contributer does not necessarily make the best child upbringer.  in this way you would have the family-father with the more feminized features bringing up a mix of his children and children sired by 'warrior donors'.  he gets his mix in because statistically hes around more often for insemination.   this makes sense when you figure the warrior-donor is always running off to battle and getting killed.   yes up to a point skill matters but with enough battles you are going to see the attrition rate.   anyway it was a point i found interesting.

The whiskers, remind me of another TV program when I was a kid, Catweazel.  Are these the sort of whiskers you mean?


(http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n23/siggylove/catweazle_2.jpg)

I know this is probably too wierd, even for this place, but I have always been more attracted by personality than appearance :-*

And it doesn't even have to be a nice personality :o

This reminds me of The Gate to Women's Country (http://www.amazon.com/Gate-Womens-Country-Sheri-Tepper/dp/0553280643/sr=8-6/qid=1164055206/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6/104-6924457-6429536?ie=UTF8&s=books) by Sheri S. Tepper.

I know what you mean Horanda, personality is a big factor, which is fine and not to be ignored but when meeting someone in reality there has to be an element of physical attraction, a smile or a twinkle in the eye.  In my experience, looks and personality don't necessarily go hand in hand, and there are plenty of Dorien Grays out there.

Why are you both hitting on Pescado? It's freaking me out.

Sim Trepie is in all my neighbour hoods too. :)

I fully agree with Navaya.

In Korea, most of the skin creators, like Louis at Sim Scribbling, are big fans of anime, manga and fantasy-based games.
They have practiced to draw those girly male characters since they were kids and they like the school uniforms, long-haired men, thin lips, sharp noses, etc.
I can see the result on their Self Make-up skintones and male sim hair meshes.
Do you guys remember the japanese site of The Sims, BNJ x LVR? (I don't remember the exact name of the site, but it was something like that.)
The beautiful male head skins of that site looked like girly males from anime, too.

I think this "anime & manga phenomenon" is all over Asia.
You can see it from Peggy Sims' models, Sim Scribbling's skintones, and so on.

As I don't really like japanese manga, I prefer to realistic male sims, not a pretty one.  :P
I hope somebody will make awesome male hairs or skintones which look more real.  :-X

Sorry for my poor English.

indeed  !!!
i prefear to touch other than bones... and also, probably, they are too fragile for me ;D

ops... maybe i'm in late

You're not actually human? My personal believe is that you're Klingon, as well as a pirate.


Disturbing, isn't it, that rational and intelligent people can find this attractive? I am constantly amazed by my ability to hone in on the emotionally stunted/needy/controlling or plain psycho... Not that I count myself among the blessed in the IQ department (before J.M. gets in there - or others - to point out my sad and uncool lack of grey matter). ::)

As for male sims being pretty? It is useful as they are the ones who breed the best looking stock even though I don't mind a few freaks in my population as it throws in the odd spanner or two. On the whole I try to make mine homely looking anyway, as most of the general human population can hardly be said to be gorgeous. Most of us fall into the distinctly average range.

Whos hitting on Pescado?  Not me, I'm behind you and several others for Frankenbeasley ;)

Speaking of hitting on Pescado, have you seen all the admirers over at PSMBD?  Do they have no shame?

I always knew you were a romantic.

I'm with the guy/girl who suggested it might be because making male models more feminine makes it easier for females to relate to them. Also, the influence of anime on the gamer world is not to be underestimated.
I've got a feeling too that the applauders of the 'pretty boys' or 'girlie boys' (note that they're always called boys, not men) are mostly to be found in the age category between 12 and 15. (I've never met one over 15, at least, if I'm wrong correct me.) And around that age boys simply haven't developed the more typical male ruggedness yet.
Another reason might be that historically seen, women have always been seen as more aesthetically pleasing than men. So if you would want to create a beautiful male, it would be easier to make his features more feminine to please said aesthetic feeling.

It's quite difficult to portray 'beauty' in a bunch of pixels. Attraction for me has much more to do with how someone carries himself than pure looks. If you're confident and happy with yourself, it shows, and that sparkle has more charm than a porcelain doll does. I tend to fall for very extravert men, so I know for me that's at least a factor.
I also don't like pretty boys. I prefer my men more in the 'rugged' category. Sean Bean is really quite handsome, but my favourite 'celebrity' (can't believe I'm using that word) must be Ray Parks. Not immediately a shining example of beauty, but he's got that thing going that keeps me interested.
As a matter of fact, I vaguely recall my first movie crush being Jeff Goldblum in the first Jurassic Park. Attraction doesn't have to make sense, apparently.

Well Im 19, and I wouldnt touch a "manly" man with a ten foot clown pole.
Personally I think it has to do with the degredation of the Y chromosome, or as was mentioned before: humans have been steadily evolving toward a more "feminine" state for some time

What a coincidence!  He's in all of mine too!   :o 

well im 50 and the only one i'd retouch was a manly man... he just had an iq of 180 or so.   he was drafted into post ww2 cleanup in the islands, you just didnt survive without becoming manly.   but i will say though i think that sadly, female is the original trait, with the y chromosome the damaged copy.  though i have never figured out how it evolved, crocodiles develop sex according to nest heat..  i dont know about all reptiles.   although susan ivanovich said it first in babylon5, i consider 'testosterone poisoning'  to be a real if untreatable condition in some men (but not all manly men).

Yeah, I've read something like this before.  I'm a damaged and incomplete woman.   I'm so depressed now.  :'(

Where's Rippy when I need him?

Its not that animals who have Y chromosomes are "broken" or "incomplete", the Y chromosome evolved to cause mutation, any animals that did not evolve the Y degenerated into clones and eventually died out due to their lack of diversity, for example if all male humans in the world died out, females could technically still reproduce as between two of them they have the genetic material to make a female baby, however, mutation would not occur as easily without a Y chromosome in the population, leading to a human population that is almost genetically identical, making it extremely vulnerable to disease.
It is also a common misconception that the Y chromosome is a male trait, in birds,butterflies and some reptiles it is the female that carries the Y.
The Y chromosome also does not solely decide the sex of an embryo, for example in humans, an embryo must have the Y and activate a pair of specific genes, one to stop it from becoming female and one to make it male. if any of those elements are missing the child will grow up as female or inter-sex.

Manly men, girly men, gay men... it doesn't matter. The ones that matter are the ones that you can actually have a grown-up conversation with. The ones that matter are the ones that push you to stretch your capabilities whether you want to or not. The ones that matter are the ones that make you grow and who continue to grow themselves.

All the rest are just toys.

;)

One of my favorite books has a line that I love, "...the protective male? He is about as protective as a can opener."

The scientific interest the Y chromosome for evolutionary purposes is relatively new as it was once thought to be merely a defunct repository for DNA that was no longer of any use, and there is already research ongoing that looks into the concept that males are 'damaged' females. Certainly, in the majority of species being female is a distinct advantage as life spans are longer plus the advantage of chromosomal symmetry affords other genetic benefits. There are a number of very interesting articles about, this being one of them.

this bit here (http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ScienceSpectra-pages/SciSpect-14-98.html)

I read somewhere that chimp Y chromosomes have shrunk just since scientists have started measuring such things because the sperm with smaller Y chromosomes swim faster and have a better chance of reaching the egg, given the competition provided by promiscuous behavior.

So it'll be "v" chromosomes from now on? Or chimps are lesser men now? :D We'll have some good-looking girlie chimps in a few hundred years then. (Note to self: Go to bed. It's late.)

Interesting link, Laeshanin, thanks.

I dunno about THAT. I mean, women have to contend with annoying health issues all their lives, which only get worse later on. Men just live short, brutish, and nasty existences that end with gruesome death in combat or an industrial accident. As expendable units, we don't have to deal with that, we just get expended.

Yes indeed. One of the most annoying health issues I have had to contend with as a woman is "man 'flu" or the common cold. It goes hand in hand with a genetic inability to remember where his car keys/socks/pants (add as applicable), or to actually tell the difference between a tea towel or a towel.  :P

I have no idea what you're on about. I'm guessing you must have been trawling the shallow end of the gene pool, though.

Man 'flu is when your significant other gets all lovey-dovey the day before he comes down with a cold.  This means you'll get it too.

Hmm, I thought it was the man's unfortunate inability to cope with any aspect of life the moment his nose gets stuffy from the common cold. Instead of getting on with life he must suffer loudly under a pile of blankets begging for someone to bring him things.

Of course if you put him in a sound-proof room on the other side of the house you can get on with your day without having to hear the piteous whining.

Well, as long as were slinging stereotypes here...

Could you ladies please stop catching those PEBKAC viruses?  Its ever so annoying.  Also, take the time to read the manual that comes with your VCR.  I'm tired of having to set the clock every time the lights go out.  I'd hate to think what desperate measures you would take if no one was there to set the timer on the thing so you can record your favorite soap opera.

Oh yes, and please learn how to drive.  Getting run off the road because you're one my side of the road is getting tiresome.

Man, I tell ya, women drivers...

Pebkac virus?

Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.

That's the second stage.  If you recognize the first stage in time, you might be able to send him to visit his mother before the second stage starts.

I've always just suggested that this be done through the use of power tools. If your nose is jammed, the obvious answer is to unjam it, just like you would do with any other kind of jammed pipe: You take a pipe cleaner and swab it out. Some people are just whiny wussies, period.

Besides, from what I can tell, women whine just as much. The chat is constantly filled with people snivelling about how this and that is stuck. FLOSS IT, people. Just take some thick twine and string it into your nose and out your mouth. Now floss vigorously.

On hot American presidents: I always thought Franklin Pierce was pretty nice-looking.

On girly-men: I like my fake guys to look pretty (because it's fantasy and I'm a fangirl at heart), but I like my IRL guys to look good, yet not look prettier than me.  I don't spend a lot of time actually creating Sims anyway (unless it's Sim-me or for a story)--whatever the genetics spit out as a result of the breeding of the few Sims I actually made is what I get.

On Trepie: There's a Sim-Trepie in my hood too.  ;D

The power tool suggestion is one that I have often considered in times of "man-flu".

As you say, some people are just whiny. Men, women, it doesn't really matter; it all depends on which variety you happen to be dealing with. Most of the women I have chosen to know over the last decade have been the ones who take care of what needs to be done and who have to work around or through completely incompetent (and whiny) husbands. I have recently met some women who seem to think their husbands are supposed to "take care of them" and I am studying them as one might study a strange new variety of spreadsheet that could be used as a word-processor if you enter the correct sequence of commands.

But I digress.

For myself, I believe I will stick to standard cold medications as long as they are able to alleviate the worst of the cold symptoms enough so that I can function. Perhaps one day in absolute desperation I will consider the sinus flossing method. I probably won't use it, but the consideration of such a method will probably encourage me to get up and get on with things.

I do not like pretty boys. I want him looking at ME, not in the mirror, thanks. Also, I like men, not teenagers, yech. I don't like super macho men either, though, they look like balloon animals with fur. Or, worse, totally shaved. And I've never understood sexual fantasies in which I could not possibly take part. Gay sex is so not a turn-on. I watched gay porn once. It was like watching someone pee. Well, that's sort of how I feel about all porn: if I'm not actually doing it, I don't see the point.

I'm only attracted to (straight) men, but I see both men and women who look nice all the time. Perhaps I'm not very picky. But for me, a guy only gets really hot when he starts talking. Or really ugly, for that matter. The guys I've crushed on most have always been on the cute side of average-looking, but extremely intelligent, funny and charming. Nicely dressed also helps.

Regarding the stereotypes: I have had a nasty cold since Wednesday, and I have whined about it non-stop. It's not quite nasty enough to shut me up, but it makes me very, very grouchy. Also, I'm the one who programs the VCR and does various other "handy" type things around the apartment, which my grandmother taught me. My father is hopeless, and so is my boyfriend :P.

"Now, I have NO problem with female looking males....But, I'm wondering if anyone can offer any theories as to why exactly almost every male sim created by a woman (especially @ MTS) looks like a woman.  I'm actually just wondering about the psychology behind it." [OpiumGirl]

Psychology for a penny, and a Feminist answer:  because the females are more shiney, have stronger character, and rule the world. The males are ninnies, ruled by their bottom side of the body, and are used only for one purpose - to donate their Y chromosomes to continue the Human breeding...:).

...Don't tell that to my husband...:).

Amen to that, sister. ;D


We do, we do. I live with a female hyochondriac who never gets anything less than Avian 'flu if she has so much as a sniffle, but will still smoke 20 fags throughout. Mind you, the ciggies seem to really clear the old tubes so less vigorous flossing (thinner twine though nicely slicked up) is required. A decent size bucket is recommended too.

Still like my men to be "real men" and not too pretty. And big - tall, wide-shouldered - with a great sense of humour.

We really do like the same type of men Laeshanin - big shoulders, tall, not too much muscle?  Seperated at birth were we?


Neriana, I like you, do not enjoy watching two men play hunt the sausage, nothing against it at all, just don't find it a turn on.  I can understand how men may find sapphic play appealing, but it doesn't necessarily follow that women find gay males fornicating titillating.

Each to their own, I suppose.

Must have been separated, siggy. I can find no other explanation.  ;D


And yet the whole phenomena of slash fiction exists? I've known a few slash writers in my time - some of them good - and they are definitely fixated by male on male porn. Have to say it does very little for me but then porn is just meh... whatever floats your boat says I.

Porn is boring, period. Who wants to watch cheap-looking ugly women who are so loose the men can't get off on them and have to use their hands to finish themselves off, anyway?

Now porn OUTTAKES, those are gold. There's just nothing like watching people unsuccessfully attempt to have sex.

I do enjoy slash (well I say I enjoy slash, in truth I probably enjoyed about 0.5 percent of all the slash I've ever read. That's a quality issue though, since most of it is appalling, and I don't even go to ff.net) and so do most of my female friends. It doesn't affect my enjoyment knowing I can't take part, I just like to imagine attractive men. My main problem with porn, either gay or straight is that everyone looks like they're having an awful time. I've never seen porn with people who look like they enjoy what they're doing. Maybe it's not my main problem with porn, maybe it's that it's filled with people even less attractive than people I've slept with, crappy dialogue, shitty camera work, handlebar moustaches... Yeah, OK, my main problem with porn is that it's just plain bad.

Agreed! The best porn (I have seen; made when dinosaurs walked the Earth) was made in the early 1970's. It was a late night and a mate had managed to hire this video from the XXX shelf- very brave. Anyway about half way through finally a couple just got on with it, they had forgotten the camera and were thoroughly enjoying themselves. Just straight missionary sex with lots of giggling, not a turn on but even with the crazy "porn" music in the background entertaining to watch. The rest of the movie I have no recollection of. Today's stuff is full of heavy breathing and playing to the cameras, if my friends' husbands collection is anything to go by? 

Note- the "I've come to fix your refrigerator/TV etc etc" movies are some of the best comedy Movies around due to the- crappy dialogue, shitty camera work, handlebar moustaches...don't forget the music, now used in major supermarkets. ;D

If someone giggles during sex, they need to be punched in the face. They probably need it anyway. Face-punching is an important part of good sex.

Interesting. Can you upgrade to excellent sex by omitting the face-punching?

No, face-punching, chair-smashing, object-throwing, clawing, and hair-pulling are all essential parts of good sex. Otherwise it's just boring porn-sex. As Vtuggle puts it, it would lack passion.

Why am I reminded of the fact that fun and games only get better when someone loses an eye?

Because pirates have more fun?

Dont forget only one can win!  Beat them down!  :P

Maybe the beard tickles them Pes?

I don't know quite why, siggy, but my head is full of the most appalling imagery. Has velcro sprung into anyone else's? Or is it just me because my mind is in the gutter?

Rofl ;D

*picks Laeshanin up out from the gutter, and dusts her down

If it's rained lately, a wet-dry vac would work better...

Another reason to floss your nose vigorously. (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20010605)

I also don't understand the fascination with 'pretty' that a lot of gay men have or that women like in men, and I'm gay myself.  If I'm with a guy, I expect him to look, walk, talk LIKE A GUY.  Of course to each his/her own.

With regard to 'pretty' or feminine male sims, not in my game!  I guess we all play what we like best.

There's a guy, Capricorne on InSim that makes male sims who look very masculine.  Here's some links:

http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=25252 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=25252)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18655 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18655)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18719 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18719)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18619 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18619)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18443 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18443)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=22031 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=22031)

[quote author=AllenABQ link=topic=6495.msg187312#msg187312 date=1164772857

There's a guy, Capricorne on InSim that makes male sims who look very masculine.  Here's some links:

http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=25252 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=25252)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18655 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18655)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18719 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18719)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18619 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18619)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18443 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=18443)
http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=22031 (http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=22031)

[/quote]

I downloaded some of them. :)

I would not mind if Maxis snagged a few of those for default faces!

AllenABQ - thanks for the links, good to see some realistic looking men - although I wasn't quite sure if I looking at the Villiage People at times lol.

YMCA ;D

I think a contributing factor is the fact that most people make smooth, oily skins and Maxis skins are pretty smooth in and of themselves. No Maxis skin really adequately captures my scaly, scowly mug.

Perhaps. LOL

I see guys who look like that every day -- usually blue-collar types but some professionals.  And most of them would probably punch anyone for suggesting that they look gay.

Yes, I've noticed that a lot of custom content makers do skintones that are so reflective that the skin looks like it's covered in vegetable oil.  Or was lacquered with verathane or something like that.  It looks so freakishly unnatural, and I often wonder what these creators are trying to achieve.  Human skin does NOT reflect light that way.

Anyhow I've tried in my own meager way to offer something different yet very representative of the real world.  ;D

Indeed, some men probably would do that.  Thankfully, when my gaydar hasn't worked, gay men haven't punched me in the face for thinking they're straight lol.  Sorry to be so flippant AllenABQ, it was just a bad joke ;)  I think it was the handlebar mustache that made it pop into my head and of course I was a big fan of the Villiage People, so it doesn't help lol

I live in Nebraska and I see this guy "Richard Kislapete - Tough guy" or variations of him every single day. LOL

Vegetable oil can be fun...

Though very, very slidey and quite difficult to get a grip if you're both covered I would think?  ;D

AllenABQ I use some of your hairy skin tones I like my Male sims a little hairy.

Can't believe I just admitted to being a fan of the Villiage People at MATY of all places?  What the hell was I thinking? 

I can't believe you mentioned it again.  The discussion of vegetable oil might have taken people's minds off it until you brought it up again.

Lol - silly Siggy not recognising an escape route when she sees it :P

siggylove, your confession has forced me to bust out a Village People Sex Over the Phone (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar31E_CsTrI) avatar.

This is nothing new.  KISS has been doing this for years.

But without the makeup, they are not pretty boys.  I think wakeupangel was thinking more like Michael Jackson without the weirdness.

If you take away the weirdness there's pretty much nothing left.

Perhaps Michael Jackson before the weird facial surgery and skin bleaching years?

Somewhere behind the bizarro nose and behaviors is the artist that produced Thriller.  He needs to get his act back together.

I'm really puzzled why he doesn't whistle when he breathes through that dinky papery nose...

Hahahahhah - Fantastic!

*siggy does crazy dance - that luckily no-one else can see

In other words an androgynous male, like the ones from the picture.

Just dress 'em up, have them tuck it below, and you have yourself an instant cross-dresser or drag queen.  BLEAH!  :P

I think that's why a lot of girls like them though. They can identify more with feminine guys, understand them a lot better, b/c such guys are so like themselves. In comparison, it's much harder to get into the mind of some brutish neanderthal type.

I'm not really into either extreme, though. Both are kinda icky for me.

I feel the exact same way about women...I like 'em as they are....If I wanted a man, I'd be with one. ;)
Well, that shouldn't bother you since you have your harem to provide live entertainment whenever you want.

I've never understood how people could get off on those uggo's....I dunno why, but the trollops.....uh,women are always hideous. I thought I was the only one to notice this...
I always thought the whole hand-finishing thing was for protection and titilation...Now, my eyes are open to the real reason. Those liars. ;) (sarcastic)
If anyone has ever seen anything with nice looking women, lol, send it over. ;)

As far as punching....Ouch.
BUT, a little slappage every now and then never hurt anyone. ::)