More Awesome Than You!

Just installed a new 256 mb ATI Radeon 700x Pro video card. Of course the the factory (recommended) install of the driver also included a miriad of other stuff. Could someone help understand what I am able to safely remove and still have the video card run games. Below is a list of the installed things, I know I need the display driver, is anything else really necessary? All I want to do is play the game.Thanks

ATI Catalyst Control Center
ATI Control Panel
ATI Decoder
ATI Display Driver
ATI Hydravision
ATI Multimedia Center
ATI Problem report Wizard
ATI Remote Wonder 2.5

I say just install the driver.

Depends on how old the provided driver is.  If the latest Ati drivers have issues with certain games, try the card manufacters generic ones instead. 

The Decoder may be for DVD playback, but I am not sure. Hydravision has something to do with multiple displays; while I use two displays myself, I've never used Hydravision. The Multimedia Center appears to be for the All-In-Wonder boards (with integrated TV tuner).

The things you need are the drivers themselves and either the Control Center or Control Panel; these give you access to the advanced driver settings. The Catalyst Control Center is a resource hog that requires Microsoft's .NET Framework; mostly it just hides the driver settings behind a fancy 3D interface. The only thing you don't get with the Control Panel that you do get with the Control Center is ATI's overclocking utility, but I don't think that is available for X700 boards anyway.

If the driver CD includes the Control Panel, this is clearly an old drivers set (the one that was current when the X700 was a new product, presumably). My advice would be do download the latest driver set from ATI, install the drivers only, and then install the Control Panel from the CD (or you could get the last version of the Control Panel from ATI's Web site; I believe Catalyst 5.8 was the last version that included the Control Panel). ATI claims that the Control Panel is not supported by more recent drivers, but I use it with the 6.4 drivers with no problems.

It appears you have already installed the drivers. If you did not uninstall the previous drivers before installing the new ones, you should probably uninstall both (using Add/Remove Programs) and then reinstall just the ATI drivers and Control Panel. I recommend getting the latest driver set from ATI's Web site, even if your board is from one of ATI's partner manufacturers (Sapphire, PowerColor, etc.).

If the X700 replaced an integrated graphics controller, you should go into the BIOS and disable the integrated graphics.

You can search MATY for more information on uninstalling and installing graphics boards (there's no reason for me to type it all again).

Thanks for all the ehelp. I uninstalled everything except the ATI Display Driver and all seems to be working fine. My factory driver version is 6.14 and it is working very nicely. Appreciate all the help. Tracy

Do upgrade at least to the 6.5 version -- I have the same card you have, and as of the 6.3 release, the 3D rendering in the sims is very noticeably  better, and there's a bit of a performance boost as well. Definitely worth the upgrade.  You can find them on the ATI site, or even better, use the modified version found at http://www.omegadrivers.net/.

I noticed that the 6.7 drivers are out now, but I haven't tried them yet, so I can't vouch for how they work with TS2.

Thanks jsalemi, I just tried the 6.8 and it seems a bit glitchy. The game is a little choppy and a few graphic oddities. I would like to try the 6.5 version but I can't find the download link. Every link to the 6.5 just leads me to the 6.8 (newest release) Could someone post a direct link for me. Please and thank you.

I had a lot of problems with the 6.8. I was getting BSODs constantly, and the culprit was ati3duag.dll, one of the drivers for the 6.8 set. I had to reroll back and haven't had that problem, since.

What version are you using now Brynne?

I just rolled back to the ones that came installed with my card, which is an ATI Radeon Mobility 9700. I'm not really happy with it because it gets weird when I put the texture or lights settings on high, but at least it's not crashing on me.  :-\

You can find older ATI drivers here: https://support.ati.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=894&task=knowledge&folderID=293. You may need to click on 'Previous Drivers' in the menu on the left to get to the archive. Just page through until you find the ones you want (the 6.x series are on the third page).

As for the Omega version, you can find the 6.5 version on this page: http://www.omegadrivers.net/archive.php

I wanted to thank you also  :)  I was also using the 6.14 drivers (with no problems) but yesterday after reading your post I went and downloaded the 6.5 ones and installed them and then played for many hours as usual  :D

Could someone clarify for me what the difference is between the ATI drivers and the 'modified omega versions'. Thanks

I think the omegas are optimized for gaming, aren't they?

Yes.  They're also 3rd party drivers, which means they aren't made by ATI.  This can sometimes be rather problematic, but from everything I've heard, the guy who maintains the Omega set is pretty good about ensuring proper compatability and all that.

I have a Geforce myself though, so I can't vouch personally.

Omega About Page (http://www.omegadrivers.net/about.php) (If you're truly curious)

-Kitt

I use the Omegas because they update much more often than Ati does, and Ati no longer updates drivers of laptops, anyway.

I just updated my vid. card, and spent the weekend trying to fix BSODs. I still have some testing to go before I announce whether or not I've fixed the driver issues, but the 6.14 seems to be working better than the 6.3 ...so far. *knocks on wood*

I have an ATI Radeon card that hates the sims.  It works fine for everything else, but when playing the sims it plays for a while, then I get a black screen and a message saying 'lost signal', and the only way to get out of it is to switch the power off.  I haven't worked out what the problem is yet, but it's aggravating that the sims works fine on my laptop and not on the computer I bought for playing games on!

Yep, that's the issue I've been working on. When I figure it out, I'll share the info. If you solve yours before I do, please share!

if it matters, I used the 6.14 drivers for over a year and had no problems running TS2 or anything else


and so far the 6.5 drivers are working fine for me

I also use the 6.5 drivers with no problems. None of the more recent drivers offer anything significant for my X800 GT0, so there's no reason for me to update at this time. Someone mentioned problems with the current 6.8 drivers, so I'm holding off, altough I suspect that may be a machine-specific problem.


This sounds to me like a hardware problem. Do you run any other applications that stress your hardware—3D games, CAD apps, or Photoshop? If not, then I would suspect:

1)  inadequate or failing power supply
2)  failing or damaged graphics board
3)  failing or damaged motherboard

Is this the graphics board that came with the PC?


Have you cleaned out all vestiges of earlier drivers? Are you sure? ;D   Does your PC have integrated graphics, and if so, have you disabled the integrated graphics in the BIOS?

As a general note, I would mention that the current (and recent) driver releases from ATI do not cover every Radeon board.

Not Supported: 

Radeon® 9250 series
Radeon® 9200 series
Radeon® 9000 series
Radeon® 8500 series
 Radeon® 7500 series
Radeon® 7200 series
Radeon® 7000 series

 
But you should have at least a Radeon 9550 to play TS2 anyway.   :P

Yes, it was an integrated, and I thought I'd cleaned it all out. Apparently not, and that's what I'm working on. If only I could skip school and work on it! Dratted kids actually doing their homework so I have stuff to grade. [/whine]. It also doesn't help that the first non-CD driver I installed was the 6.8. That sucked, so now I'm trying to roll it back, so I have double the work of uninstalling and cleaning. Next time, I may not do this on my own.

May wanna give this a try Elfie.  I've never used it myself, but I'm pretty much a techie-geek so stuff like this is pretty natural for me.  I've had many friends who swear by it though.

Driver Cleaner (Pro is free and supports ATI) (http://www.drivercleaner.net/)

-Kitt

Thanks, KittKatt. I appreciate the advice.
(God/Goddess/es know I'm really good at some things, and really not good at others.)

Have you disabled the integrated graphics in the BIOS? You need to do that.   8)

Again, I thought I had, but that was Friday and I've been a little stressed. I might very well have forgotten. I'm checking now (or, I will, once I'm done typing.)

Edit:
All right, I give. I went into BIOS, I made sure the right card (PCI) was enabled. Restarted Computer. Opened Game. Played for all of 40ish minutes, and got another Black Screen Of Death. I even called HP tech! From what "Sam" (what an odd name for someone who's accent is distinctly non-standard American) said, I've done everything I needed to do. HELP!

This is the full story:
1) My computer: HP Compaq Presario with Windows XP (yes, Service Pack 2) and an extra memory card (grand total of 512MB...I think)
2) Old card was the pre-installed VIA/S3G UniChrome IGP
3) New card is a Radeon 9550
4) I did the following to install the card (steps may not be in order, because I'm typing from memory):
   a) In Add/Remove Programs, I removed the old card
   b) In System Properties, I disabled the old card (Prob'ly did that first, as it isn't there anymore, but whatever)
   c) Shut off computer, opened case, blah blah blah, plugged in new card (PCI slot)
   d) Turned on computer and installed CD software (then realized I needed to plug the monitor cord into the new card *headdesk*)
   e) Played game for a short time (more than 10 minutes, but not long enough to feel accomplished) and got a BSOD
   f) Read threads here and elsewhere about ATI drivers, went to ATI site and got download for newest drivers (6.8)
   g) Uninstalled CD driver and installed 6.8, following all directions as given
   h) Played Sims for less than five minutes at a time with appearance of BSOD....total stubbornness of "This will work if I push the buttons over and over and over..."
   i) re-read threads, uninstalled 6.8 and installed 6.5, following all directions again.
   j) called HP tech support, who said I did everything right (?)
   k) returned here for help

bump.

Help? Stubborn little me admits freely that she knows less than she should. Please read above post. Thanks.

Well if your drivers are cleaned out and re-installed correctly, as it sounds they are...

Things I can still think of...

1.  Comb through your entire BIOS very carefuly.  Check for anything that hints of "onboard video".  Sometimes, even if you've selected the right card, sometimes the BIOS has funky options that require you to ALSO implicitly disable the old onboard junk.

Old mobo's used jumpers for this (physical little pin doodads you had to move around), but that really shouldn't be the case for you.  You could read the manual for the mainboard (if you've got one) to check, or poke around the model number online, but it really *should* be jumperless.

Oh... wait a sec.  I just thought of something else.  You said you're getting a "BSOD" -typically a Blue Screen of Death (with funky, hard to decipher for anyone but a robot error messages).  I also note however you said BLACK earlier, and someone else mentioned "Signal lost".

Is that what's happening with you?  If it is, this may not be a video card problem at all, but a monitor issue.  Your new card is probably capable of modes (and more importantly sync and refresh rates) that your old onboard couldn't handle.  If the new card doesn't understand that your monitor can't handle some of those modes and timings, that can be all sorts of hell, and rather often results in exactly that "lost signal" sort of black screen.

-Kitt

Yep, it's a black screen.
So, other than spending money on a new monitor (and my brother's wedding is this month, so I *should* spend the money on him), do you have any suggestions?

I couldn't tell you the specs off-hand, but it's a flat screen Envision.

Just change the refresh rates in your Display references to something reasonable, like the standard 60? Every monitor will handle that, and there's no real reason to go higher.

They're set at 60. I just triple-checked.

D'oh.  :(

It was worth a shot.. that sure sounded like the problem.

Erm..  Being that it takes a while to happen, perhaps it's just not getting sufficient cooling?  A new expansion video card will run hotter than the old onboard chip will, and if you're hitting the heat limits, many of them are designed to shut down so as not to fry completely.

I'm sorta straw grasping here, but trying to think of anything that might be helpful...

The easiest way I know of to test if it's heat related would be to find some kind of desk fan (or any fan you can aim into the case really), then open it up and blast cool air at it.

If it still does it, especially if it takes roughly the same amount of time, then heat probably isn't the problem.  And if you do try that test, be careful not to blow a bunch of dust and crap in there.  That can be non-awesome.

-Kitt

Do not ruin computer with dust. check. *giggle*

Since this is only a game-related problem (nothing else seems to phase it, including time online, or any number of things that drove my last computer nutty), do you suppose it's worth the hassle to remove the Sims folder and see if the game will generate something better?

I do appreciate the help, KittKitt (and JM and Hegelian and Motoki and....). Even if you're grasping at straws, you're better than I am at technostuff.

It's unlikely that a reinstall would help, but it's always possible.

Though it being a game issue could still be a heat issue too, since doing things like surfing the web won't heat it up even close to when it's under a load like running games with high(er) end graphics.

That's another way you could go about some easy checks..  Get the Sims running, then turn off/down every possible option you can think of..  Minimum view distances, don't show any shiny extras, lowest quality textures, and the lowest screen resolution it offers you (probably 640 x 480 if memory serves).

Oh, and no edge smoothing either -unless I miss my guess, that's probably some kind of maxian Anti-Alias mode, which puts a fair extra draw on the video.

Anyways, if you've cranked everything way down and it seems to be stable, it might well be a heat issue, or even possibly any one specific added feature.  You can then start turning all the options back up to a tolerable level one by one and see if it starts happening again or not.

If I think of anything else that seems to make sense, I'll pop back and give a holler.

-Kitt

I'll try this out tomorrow night. (For now, because I'm a wuss and I drive the carpool tomorrow, I must get some sleep.)
I'll check in after attempting, and let you all know how it goes. Thanks again, Kitt!

Here's a forum dedicated to ATI cards and a "sticky" thread that has all kinds of ATI info/help.. http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33738545 (http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33738545) scroll down/find "monitors" and see if there is anything there you haven't tried yet. Or check around and see if there are any current threads there that might help you out.

I've never had any trouble playing the sims 1 (unless I forget to set it to 16 vs 32 bits) nor sims 2.. both play nicely for me... on the other hand _nothing_ I've tried could get Cabella's Outdoor Adventures to play at all (I could play as far as clicking "play" then black screen.. no sound, nothing.. but at least I could ctrl+alt+del and not have to hit reset.).

grr! $20 down the drain.. I might as well use the disc as a bird chaser-awayer in the garden (sigh).

Your refresh in the display settings may be set to 60...but is it set to 60 in your Sims preferences?

That's too bad...maybe you could sell it on eBay and get some of your money back?

I have to run my monitor at at least 70 Hz refresh rate.  Lower than that makes my screen flicker and gives me a headache.  :(

Well, JM, I can't triple check from work, but I believe so.
mistymage, thanks for the link and the "positive" image. EEK! To never play again! *vows to buy a new computer system before giving up her simmies!*

Okay, just to keep beating on a potentially dead horse:  The Radeon 9550 is PCI and not AGP? And, in the BIOS there should be a place to disable the on-board graphics that will be a different setting from choosing whether the PC looks first for a PCI video board rather than an AGP video board.

Most BIOSes have a function for setting the type of graphics adapter you have, usually called something like Primary Video Adapter. This is not the same as disabling on-board graphics! The function for disabling on-board video is commonly found in the Peripherals section of the BIOS where you would also find the settings for the on-board audio.

Hegelian, I'll look again. I hope to goodness it's something like that, because that's something I should be able to fix.

In case it helps, my computer had the same graphics card from new, it happens on two different monitors - one a flat screen, one not, and I tried running the game of Harry Potter and the something of something else and got a black screen of death too.

It seems to me that it could be a problem with overheating, as there's no specific time limit.  It's very hard to fix, because it can do a very good impression of being fixed for several hours and suddenly I'm back in the dark again.

It is of course not entirely out of the question that there is some driver incompatibility, which might be resolved by rolling back to earlier drivers. Unless your CPU and hard drives are producing an excessive amount of heat, overheating is unlikely since this board does not generate much heat itself—it doesn't even have a fan attached to its heat sink. Neither does it draw a lot of power.

OTOH I suppose it is also possible you're just "over-driving" it with TS2 although I wouldn't want to offer that as a diagnosis. This is an old product, released in North America in spring of 2004 as a budget part after being successful in the Asian market. It was the least expensive ATI board that supported DirectX 9 in hardware, being in essence a de-tuned Radeon 9600:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/tul9550/

Although these are still on the market and cheap (under US$50 from Newegg), and perhaps the best option at your local big-box store (CompUSA, Best Buy), at this late date they are not at all a good value, with only four pixel pipelines, often with only 128 MB of memory with a 64-bit memory interface, and low clock speeds, compared to the X700 with 8 pipelines for less than US$100.

If US$100 is the absolute maximum, the X700 is currently the ATI AGP board of choice. As I've previously mentioned, the best value (performance for money spent) currently among AGP boards powered by either ATI or nVidia is the Radeon X800 GTO (~US$130).

I think this might be it.

I mis-remembered earlier: ATI 9550 is AGP, and I checked BIOS again...AGP is enabled everywhere it should be, and all your directions in that area have been followed, Hegelian.
The last Black Screen of Doom prompted an error log. I assumed the log was a "shut down improperly" deal, since I did have to shut down improperly. (It's awfully hard to do it correctly when you have no visuals on your screen. Damn computer) I don't remember what it actually said went wrong, but the fix was to set my display driver settings to their lowest possible setting. In effect, shutting off all Direct X. Well, I'm obviously not doing THAT. Instead, I fooled around a bit, and decided on the seeting that shuts down advanded mousing and drawing. The game still crashes on me, but less often. Sigh.

By crash....I get one of two things: a black screen of doom, or a black screen of doom with a floating message: "Input not Supported". The second is a new and infrequent message.

<<edited for clarification>>

There's also the possibility that the graphics board is defective.

D'oh! I didn't even think about that! Bless you, Hegelian, for taking time to think about this for me. You are MUCH more awesome than I.