More Awesome Than You!

It's been confirmed here:

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=182634

To sum up:

When wearing the "dress as tops" tops that have been made at MTS2, and trying to purchase a community lot, your game will crash. 

Is there anyone more awesome than me that can write a hack that can stop the game from accessing the line of code that HystericalParoxysm references in order to have these meshes fully workable in game?  "I don't think there's going to be any fix for the dress tops that will keep this from happening - dress tops are made by cloning a full body mesh, importing the 3d model for a top only, and then changing one line in the recolour file's settings to tell it that it's a top. It's really a very simple, elegant way of doing it... And in order for something to work like a dress top, that seems to be the way it has to be done. There doesn't appear to be an alternate dress top method....So the problem is really not so much with the dress tops themselves as it is with the code that runs when a sim goes to buy a community lot. For some reason, it's accessing what the buying sim is wearing when it does it... which makes exactly 0 sense."

The other workaround listed, to have the sim in question merely change clothing prior to buying a community lot, is not IMHO a good solution.

Removing all the tops created is not a good option either, as that ignores the fact that there does indeed exist this problem.

This may or may not come up again for other meshes out there, and I'd rather have a fix for it in place in order to prevent it from happening.

Thank you to anyone who may take an interest in coming up with a solution to this problem.

:) :) :)
Ivy

There is no good reason the game should *crash* altogether. This is EA and Maxis' fault. Complain to them, though I doubt they really care.

I am presently conducting tests to determine what instruction triggers the crash.

Thank you JM for taking the time to look into this issue.

It is much appreciated!

:) :) :)
Ivy

In my game, this mesh also causes crash to the desktop when trying to give my sim a job (newspaper) and when she tries to give birth.... I did not try to buy a community lot.... It sad because it's a really nice mesh/idea, but for the moment I took it out of my downloads folder (my game is too long too load for my taste to let it crash every 5 minutes !!)

I believe that I have identified the cause, and Pioupiou's observations corroborate the theory.

It appears that something about the way the "dress as top" mesh designed is not quite right and causes the game to barf when attempting to use it in dynamic thumbnail dialog featuring that sim. This includes, but is not limited to, the confirmation dialog of purchasing community lots, or any confirmation dialog that would ordinarily pop a presently instanced sim's dialog into the imagebox of a Yes/No, and maybe Yes/No/Cancel dialog.

The problem is believed to be largely untenable. While it can be bypassed at any individual instance it occurs at, the error itself is rooted at a low level and cannot be resolved. The way the mesh is made is fundamentally flawed and breaks the game at a low level. I recommend all such meshes be immediately recalled from download and retired from service.

The same thing happens if you have a bodybuilder sim.

Thank you Pioupiou for noticing that, I hadn't tried any of those options yet! YIKES!

Thank you JM for digging deeper into the issue, finding the root cause and letting those over at MTS2 aware of it as well.  Well said over there by the way. 

I shall take your advice and remove it from my downloads.  Random crashes that can be avoidable shall be. 

:) :) :)
Ivy

I've been using the dress as top mesh for some time and have never had any problems. However, I shall take this all into consideration and when/if my game throws up I will know who to blame... Myself for ignoring the advice of Pescado. :P

I had the exact same problem with the top mesh made from the men's open shirt outfit (also on MTS2) when trying to get a job.

Same bug, then. If the mesh is manufactured the same way, it will share the same weakness.

 Did you let them know at MTS2 JenW?    I wouldn't mind getting the name of the mesh so I could at least check and see if I have it in my game.    I hate game crashes.

I am pretty sure they are:
mesh_dressasatop.package
mesh_dresstopforhp.package

I have used these without any problems so far, but thanks for the heads up on these meshes :)

Do you have a link to this mesh? I'd like to know which one this one is.

Thanks!

:) :) :)
Ivy

This is it here...it's also by flyingpigeon, what do you know... http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=162814

It didn't occur to me at the time to post about it, but I will now.

 Thanks JenW.   That's what I needed to know.

 Marg   

Thanks JenW for letting us know.  And yes, it does have the same large warning on it now as the others.


:) :) :)
Ivy

Not to add fuel to the fire but wow, that was handled poorly. In my opinion all complaints should be looked into no matter how bizzare or stupid sounding. If you make something and offer it up to the masses you have an obligation to support the creation, even if you dont know why its broken when you discover it is. At the very least one should at least attempt to take the complaint seriously to investigate especially when the person who reports the issues provide enough detail to attempt to recreate the issue themselves... I realize something like this couldnt be foreseen but if someone tells you there is a problem, rather than pretending they are stupid or nuts or shift blame - just look into it.

It just reeks in my opinion, I got the feeling the person reporting the issue was being treated like a pest, and made out ot be a bad guy or some crap, not cool at all. I am all for protecting creators from needless harrassment but come on....ok whatever.   :-\

Thank you Nectere and here, have some more gasoline.  That was me that reported it.

Unfortunately, slicing and dicing over there got a lot of what was said cut out so unless you were subscribed from the very beginning, you missed the worst of it. 

I do have those emails saved to remind me never to never do that again.  I followed all the guidelines, was clear in my posting, I believe I spelled most everything correctly and even spoke in plain english.  Silly me for thinking that was the right thing to do, eh?

Ivy

It was the right thing to do Ivy.    I'm  sorry you were treated badly.   I think most creators do want to know when there is a problem and will try to fix it.   

Need I remind you that MTS2 subscribes to the "THANKS THIS IS GREAT" culture that we here at MATY scoff at. This is why they constantly want you to thank them. We, on the other hand, don't believe in good news, so THANKS THIS IS GREAT is simply useless spam.

I found it astonishing that the thread was locked when Sagana correctly pointed out that those meshes WILL end up on the exchange.

Talk about burying one's head in the sand.  Just because people aren't supposed to put those on the exchange, doesn't mean they won't end up there.

*Hugs Ivy*  I think I would have lost my temper somewhere during that discussion if it'd been me, and started insulting idiot creators who don't even bother to test something AFTER they'd received a bug report that detailed how to repeat the bug.  I note it wasn't the creator who was the first to agree it was broken, but someone else over there.

Thank you Marg, I think that is what I expect out of everyone after being here for so long.  I suppose that is why I was so stunned at the responses that I received. 

JM the need for constant praise and affection in that respect is useless.  I did give some simple form of praise, I suppose because I didn't follow it with !111!!!!1ONEONENEONE it wasn't noticed.  Gosh, that must've been what I missed in the fine print over there...

Kyna, yes that is the sad, true fact, and I don't doubt they are there already.  Thanks for the **hugsbackatcha** .  I may not have lost my temper over there, but you better believe the 500+ members of the TS2 Classic Legacy Group that I co-own know about this bug all too well.  Those Legacy simmers sure can talk...and blog...word spreads real fast with them you know.  Yeah, not only did the creator not want to admit that it was broken, he passed up the first two chances to admit to it.  Better yet, he had all day to go and test it out before the second chance was even posted...

Ivy

I'm uncertain why it took them so long to even admit there might be a problem, given that you could reproduce it consistently with methodical testing. I'm not really involved in the mesh scene at all, and it took precisely one attempt to verify, "Yes, there definitely is a problem.". Of course, they're not programmers. Maybe it just completely blew their minds that something like this could possibly happen, whereas the moment I saw it go wrong, I had sneaking suspicions that the mesh probably was a little dodgy to begin with. Perhaps programmers are just more likely to connect seemingly unrelated errors given that we experience some pretty outwardly crazy shit all the time.

Ivy I think you identified why they didn't take you seriously.

They're so used to people that type !!!!!1111!!!OMG!!111 that they didn't differentiate between a post that said "OMG U BORKE MI GAME" and a PM detailing a clear bug report with information on reproducing the bug.  I guess they're so used to posts from sheep they assume everyone is a sheep, even though you clearly aren't.

While I was over on MTS2 reading the relevant posts I refrained from giving low ratings to the meshes in question (although I note they both had high ratings).  I never rate an item unless I've downloaded and used it in my game - and I'm not going to be that with these meshes.

And to go off-topic:  how's the FlyLady stuff going?

JM:  Granted, they are not programmers.  Nevertheless, that still doesn't excuse their responsibility to read and comprehend the English language, their responsibility to give those that file problem reports written in a clear and precise manner the benefit of the doubt and go and test it for themeselves, and it definitely does not excuse them from simply ignoring a problem just because 'it's not possible' even though 'meshes are beta and unexpected things can happen'.   I'm not a programmer, and even I could connect enough dots to figure out there was a problem going on and could reproduce it every single time.  How deep it went, I had no idea...that took one heck of a programmer to figure out.  (And I'm ever so thankful, but I won't gush over that here, that would be useless spam...)

Kyna...lol...yes that must be it.  Thank you, I try to be as non-sheep like as possible.  Correct spelling I think is usually the first giveaway to a non-sheep.  Perhaps I blew their minds as JM had mentioned by spelling everything correctly...lol.  And Flylady would actually be okay with me today.  My sink is shiny, my hot spots are lukewarm...the only thing I haven't done yet is tuck myself in for the night.  lol.  Today is a good day! :D

:) :) :)
Ivy

Luckily, FlyingPigeon seems responsible enough to pull the meshes, unless HystericalParoxysm persuades him otherwise. My jaw just about hit the floor when I saw her response to Sagana.

If you look at the individual threads, their note(s) about being removed have been removed.  So at this point, it doesn't appear that they will be taken down after all...


Ivy

That response was quite baffling, yes. Head-in-the-sand-denial that anything could ever end up on the exchange, and bizarre nonsense about being 13 to register. However, there *IS* no 13. Only 12.

I don't think they will come down <sigh> and apparently they're just incompatable with OFB :p

Are these the same meshes?

http://www.all-about-style.com/adult_feca7.html
Black Lace/ Bow Belt Top, mesh by Pigeon Sims included , and Beaded Floral Top, mesh by Pigeon Sims included

(All About Style, adult page 7, 2nd row from the bottom and all the ones on the bottom row and a couple on the next page)

I think they are, but am not sure. It's so hard to tell with clothes, especially really well-done ones. I emailed her in case they are. <sigh>

Yes, they are. Yes, they will a splode your game.

Apparently I'm the one that's naive, I think creators and sites will take some responsibility and do the right thing. I have the very bad feeling that no one *told* All About Style (I should know her name, I've just forgotten it) that they cause crashes, or there's even the possibility they do. And I don't believe she put them up without permission - she always gets permission :p

No warning, nothing to indicate those are any different than any other mesh and they say OFB only <sigh>rather than definitely breaks in OFB, might break without any EPs at all.

Pes, do you know if they cause crashes in just a straight sims2 game? (I dunno why they wouldn't - finding a job in the paper is base sims2 code, but... I'm not a coder.)

I won't be downloading anything but full body meshes for awhile. I wouldn't much anyway (I prefer them and hey, they're cheaper ;) but All About Style is my exception. I love that site. I'm just lucky I don't have those yet.

Edit: some odd desire to spell definitely properly for a change and get rid of emoticons.

The crashing will occur in any game, since the way the mesh is made is fundamentally illegal and makes the game barf.

Thank you. That's what I suspected.

Absolutely none of those showed up in my game when I downloaded them :D Not quite sure why....I really think I'm going to remove all the 'dresses as tops' meshes and recolours from my game because when I used a community lot to buy clothes, it took forever to load up the clothing options. I cleaned and hoovered the whole room! (and I have a big living room) I think that these clothes are ok with just base, uni and nl, as that is what I was playing before I installed OFB and FF. Something screws them with the later expansion and stuff pack.

The All About Style outfits that use this mesh have already been disabled. I can't get to my home email from work to see what (if anything) she said, but I just felt a real need to stop in here and say:

All About Style rocks!

Not 'awesome' Pescado coding ;) but I really appreciate that she cares and just took care of it right away (and I know the work she does takes a lot of time and care and that was quite a few outfits). Site's rep goes right up in my book.

Yeah, that is one of my favourite sites. That is why I was so surprised that the outfits didn't show, cos her stuff is quality :)

Well my game just crashed twice after one of my sims tried to look for a job using the newspaper.  I know that I didn't download any of these tops so I'm not quite sure what it could be.

Last few days the only things I have downloaded was a couple of sims, houses and some of J.M's business related stuff.

Could it be it came with one of the sims I downloaded?  I can't even remember which one it was since usually I delete the sims if I don't like how they turn out after I downloaded them.

If you keep the clothes in a separate folder, try removing the clothing (and sims, if you put the sims and the clothes they're wearing in the same place) downloads and see if it still crashes?

The top she was wearing was made by Boutique Emilie, meshElauAFPantsWaistedHeels.package is the mesh.

You can find the top at http://www.boutiqueemilie.net/be_sale.htm, it's the second top on the top row (black long sleeved) in women everyday section.

Reason I didn't think it was a top earlier was because I downloaded this long ago but just didn't have any of my sims wear it yet.  Still not sure if this is the problem though.  I tried having her look at the newspaper for a job again and sometimes it crashes and sometimes it doesn't.

Guess I'll just remove the top entirely and see if that was causing the problem.

That's not the same mesh. It doesn't look like a full body mesh turned into a top only either. And I think if the mesh was the reason, the game would crash every time (because it can't properly create the thumbnail), so I suspect something else is the cause (but I'm not a coder, nor awesome, so add your own salt.)

It seems that it's only been recently that the game generates dynamic thumbnails when displaying a dialogue box, because I've only noticed it since I got OFB.  I think I definitely would have noticed before, because it caught my attention when I noticed that the portrait displayed was different.

Also, I know Pescado hates thank yous, and All Pescados Suck, but I was so grateful that he took the time to investigate my problem with the BUY toilet paper causing a CTD (crash to desktop) after putting in a new version.  I was still on NL, and he had redone all the hacks to consolidate NL and OFB versions, with code to detect what EP you have.  But something wasn't working right and it kept causing a CTD every time.  He didn't believe it at first, saying it was a "Rainbow problem," but someone else reported the same thing, and since it didn't happen with OFB only NL, he worked with me until we got the problem solved.  So while I don't care for some of his opinions and social skills, I have high regard for his skills as a programmer and his integrity. 

I still can't find any kind of logical explanation for why it was doing that, given that the code in question was never invoked.

I only have NL up to the latest patch, but I have dynamic thumbnails, so it's not just an OFB thing.  I notice it when my sim gets an invitation to go on an outing.  The dialog box sometimes shows the sim in work clothes, totally different from the thumbnail in the relationships panel or the address book.

It might have come with the 2nd NL patch, though I can't imagine why Maxis would put something like that in a patch.