More Awesome Than You!

UPDATE, 16 January 2008:  As I am sure is apparent, I am not inclined to keep this thread current. Much has changed since the last update (Sept. 2006), so there is a lot of out-of-date information here. If someone else wants to do something along these lines and keep it current, perhaps a new pinned thread should be started and this one unpinned and left to sink down the list on its own.

One development I will mention here is the move toward greater energy efficiency. We can see this in the latest generation of Intel's Core 2 duo and quad-core CPUs, some video boards (ATI's HD3000 series, for example), the 80 PLUS initiative for high-efficiency power supplies (such as the units manufactured by SeaSonic and marketed under both its own name and others like Corsair and Antec's Earthwatts series), and even hard drives (Western Digital's GP series). I find this a welcome development.

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There have been a lot of questions recently about building or upgrading a PC to (at least in part) make TS2 run better. Here are a few resouces folks might find helpful.

Added 08 September 2006:  ATI's New High End and Mid Range: Radeon X1950 XTX & X1900 XT 256MB (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2821)


Note the absence of the X1800 series. It may be that over the next few months, X1800 prices could become quite attractive as the remaining stock is liquidated.

Mid Range GPU Roundup - Summer 2006 (http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2812)


Update, 29 August 2006:  Core 2 notebooks ("Merom") are about to hit the market. Given how closely these new CPUs match the performance of their desktop equivalents, these new laptops should outperform by a wide margin current models that use "mobile" processors.

Dell, others roll out Core 2 Duo notebooks (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/28/dell_others_announce_core_2_duo_notebooks/)
Core 2 Duo notebooks offered from $850 (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/08/28/new_core2duo_notebooks_include_849-dollar_alienware/)
Mobile Core2 Duo: Performance at a Cost (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2008643,00.asp) 

Also, Tom's Hardware Guide has updated its interactive VGA charts to include the latest boards from nVidia (7900 GTX) and ATI (X1900 XTX). See how your current or anticipated graphics board stacks up:

Red Hot VGA Charts! (explains the charts) (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/08/28/vga_charts_summer_2006/)
Interactive VGA Charts (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html)


Update, 14 July 2006:  Core 2 is almost here, and the first independent lab tests are starting to appear.

The Core 2: Intel Goes for the Jugular (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1988744,00.asp) 
Intel's Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Extreme processors:  Conroe at last (http://techreport.com/reviews/2006q3/core2/index.x?pg=1) 

Update, 15 June 2006: For those considering building/buying a new machine in the next few months, Intel looks positioned to retake the performance lead from AMD with its Core 2 dual-core processors (aka "Conroe"), at competitive prices; scheduled release date is 24 July. The word for today is "wait"!

Intel Core versus AMD's K8 architecture (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2748&p=1)
Hot Summer for CPU Companies (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1975328,00.asp)
Benchmarking Conroe: First Look at Core 2 Extreme Edition (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1970194,00.asp)
Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Preview from Taiwan (http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2771)

At least two Web sites have recent articles on building a sub-1000 USD gaming PC, Tom's Hardware (500 & 720 USD) and Extreme Tech (800 USD):

The $500 Gaming Machine (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/10/14/the_/)
Build It: $800 Gaming PC (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1962704,00.asp)
Your DIY 4 GHz Dual Core Gaming Rig For $720 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/06/12/your_diy_gaming_rig_for_720/index.html)

In print, the June 2006 issue of the American magazine Maximum PC (http://www.maximumpc.com/) features a DIY gaming rig for 1000 USD:


For more general useful information, try these:

Power supplies (the oft-overlooked heart of your PC):

Pumping Out the Juice: Power Supplies Explained (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1815446,00.asp)
Power Consumption and the Modern Geek (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1937989,00.asp)
Stress Test: Power Supplies Under Full Load (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/11/stress_test/)
5 Power Supplies Get the Full Juice Treatment (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/02/07/5_power_supplies_get_the_full_juice_treatment/)

PCI, AGP, PCI-E, Firewire, etc.:  What are they?

PC Interfaces 101 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/23/pc_interfaces_101/)


All about RAM:

Don't Forget the Memory—RAM Explained (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1856061,00.asp)
Navigating the Memory Upgrade Jungle (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/03/24/navigating_the_memory_upgrade_jungle/)
How Much RAM Do You Really Need? (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/12/13/how_much_ram_do_you_really_need/)
Ups and Downs: Memory Timings Put to the Test (http://www.tomshardware.com/2004/01/19/ups_and_downs/)

Navigating the BIOS:  How to set up your PC to run right using its Setup utility

BIOS from A to Z (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/01/04/bios_from_a_to_z/)


Which Graphics Board Should I Buy?

Graphics Card Buyer's Guide Spring 2006, Part 1 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/08/2006_graphics_card_buyers_guide_part1/)
ATI Graphics Card Buyers Guide 2006, Part II (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/12/graphics_card_buyers_guide_2006/)
ATI Buyers Guide, Part III: All Graphics Cards! (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/15/graphics_card_buyers_guide_2006_part3/)

For the TS2 Gamer on a budget:

Don't Throw Out Your ATI Radeon X800 Yet (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/28/don/)


And charts for performance tests that include TS2:

VGA Charts VI: PCI Express Update Summer 2005 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/05/24/vga_charts_vi/index.html)
VGA Charts VII: AGP Update Summer 2005 (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/07/05/vga_charts_vii/index.html)

Install, Clean Up, and Otherwise Tweak Your Video Drivers

ATI Catalyst Tweak Guide (http://www.tweakguides.com/ATICAT_1.html)
Nvidia Forceware Tweak Guide (http://www.tweakguides.com/NVFORCE_1.html)

Hope this helps!


Credits and Thanks to these sites:

(http://images.tomshardware.com/Design/graphics/layout/tomshardware/logo.gif) (http://www.tomshardware.com/)

(http://www.extremetech.com/images/header.gif) (http://www.extremetech.com/)

www.anandtech.com/

LOSTCIRCUITS (http://www.lostcircuits.com/)

(http://www.tweakguides.com/header.jpg) (http://www.tweakguides.com/)

It's very helpful so I am going to pin this topic, thank you Hegelian!

I recently upgraded my PC - well, built a new one - and I found Tom's Hardware was a brilliant resource. They have interactive charts where you can compare the performance of a variety of hardware in a number of ways - very helpful.

Toms is good but if you really want to dig into it there is really only one site to visit and thats www.hardforum.com

I just get a database error with that link.

Since there has been a lot of talk here recently about hardware, I thought I would post a couple links to news from AMD that affects anyone contemplating upgrading or buying an Athlon-based PC. In brief, AMD is rolling out a line of new CPUs that use the (relatively) new DDR2 RAM, and also a new 940-pin socket called AM2. Current Athlon CPUs will be migrated to the new socket, and new CPUs will be released only for Socket 940 as near as I can tell. It appears AMD intends to phase out its Socket 939 CPUs by the end of the year, effectively ending the upgrade possibilities for current Socket 939 motherboards.

So, if you're looking to upgrade your current Socket 939 Athlon, do it soon. If you're about to get a new motherboard and CPU, be sure they are Socket 940.   :P

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/05/23/amd_intros_am2_processors/
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1966062,00.asp

Thanks Hegelian, I'm planning on upgrading again towards the end of the year, will keep this in mind.

No doubt. But we're talking about game play here, not load times.

Well, as far as load times are concerned, as a general rule, you need at least twice as much additional memory as the size of your downloads folder. This permits the entire mess to fit into RAM and thus avoid hard drive access. You will need TWICE as much, however, because Windoze will take up half of your RAM, so of any RAM you purchase for this, half of it will be Windoze's cut.

FWIW, as I write this I have 1046 MB of free RAM out of a total of 1535 MB, and my Paging File (virtual memory) use is 6 MB out of 312 MB availabe. This is actually a bit misleading since my Paging File is set for a maximum of 850 MB (the actual values are 10-50 MB on drive C and 100-800 MB on drive E). This is with WinXP Pro.

When I run the game I usually have 400-500 MB of free RAM.

Windows doesn't take up half of my RAM. There is a number I can't get below, yes, but it's closer to a quarter.

So, excuse my ignorance, but I don't understand how these numbers relate to each other. I see I have custom settings, I assume my ex set them, should I change anything? I have 2Gb RAM.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/nz_witch/virtualmem.jpg)

There is an inverse relationship between the amount of RAM (random-access memory) and the size of Paging File you need. Because Windows needs to run on a wide (wild?) variety of machines, Microsoft takes a sledgeahmmer approach and allows Windows to take a huge chunk of your available hard-drive space for the Paging File. The problem with this is that there are two memory managers working at the same time:  one caches data from the hard drive in memory in order to keep it readily available for applications, because RAM is much faster than a hard drive at transferring data; at the same time the virtual memory manager (VMM) is swapping idle data in RAM to the Paging File on the hard drive to free up RAM. So you see the problem:  One hand is moving data to RAM, and the other hand is moving it back to the hard drive, but into the Paging File instead of just leaving it as it is in the original file. In addition, as you move past 512 MB of RAM, the VMM is "stronger" than the cache manager, so you can end of with hundreds of MB in the Paging File while less than half your RAM is being used. Until I limited the size of the Paging File on my PCs, Windows XP was using only about 25% of my installed RAM.

To understand the problem a bit better, keep in mind that virtual memory was introduced in the days when RAM was much more expensive on a per-megabyte basis than it is now, and the amount you could have was much lower (either because of the physical limitations of your motherboard, or because Win98 could only use 512 MB). Windows 3.1 needed to run on PCs with as little as 64 MB or 128 MB RAM, and the new Windows applications needed more than that. The solution was to use a designated portion of the hard drive as an extension of the physical RAM in the PC, hence "virtual" memory. Then as now, RAM access was much faster than hard-drive access, but since this was the only way to get large programs to run, or to have more than one application open at the same time, that's what we got.

In those days, the common recommendation was to set your paging file to 2.5X your physical RAM, which was fine when that meant dedicating 320 MB of hard drive space to virtual memory on a machine with 128 MB RAM. But as the RAM in the typical PC moved to 512 MB and beyond, this formula was no longer appropriate. Today, when installed RAM is typically 1 GB or greater, it actually hurts performance to have your paging file set to some multiple of RAM, or even to the same amount.

That said, there is no one optimal paging-file setting that applies to every PC and every PC user. There are ways to determine the optimal setting for a particular machine that are not difficult. In WinXP Pro, you can log Paging File use by turning on the performance log at Control Panel > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Performance Logs and Alerts > Counter Logs > Pagefile Use. You would then experiment with different Paging File settings, running several of your most memory-demanding applicaitons at the same time (loading several large images into Photoshop and performing a few operations on them is a good test), and then setting the maximum Paging File size to about 50 MB more (or 20%, if that makes you feel more comfortable) than the maximum Paging File use reported by the log. The log files can be read in Excel.

With 1 GB RAM (now 1.5 GB), I have the Paging File on drive C (the boot drive) set for a minimum of 20 MB and a maximum of 50 MB. On drive E, I have the main paging file set to a minimum of 100 MB and a maximum of 800 MB. With these settings, Windows actually uses all my installed RAM instead of just the first 300 MB or so, and "disk thrashing" (excessive access of the Paging File) has virtually ceased. Everything runs faster and more smoothly because applications don't need to be constantly retrieving data from an oversized Paging File on the hard drive. The image below shows my RAM and Paging File usage as I write this; the Paging File use is actually a bit high, but I have six apps open at the moment, including three Web pages:

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/callahfc/PagingFile.jpg)


A couple things to keep in mind:  If you have more than one physical hard drive, it is good to have the Paging File on the drive that does not contain Windows (use a disk defragmenter like Norton Speed Disk to have the file located at the start of the drive, and unfragmented for optimum performance). However, note that WinXP likes to have a small Paging File on the boot drive (usually C:) even if the main file is on another drive; this file should be at least 20 MB. If you have only one drive, you can still set a minimum and maximum such as the 100/800 MB I use, although it won't be at the beginning of the drive. With the cost of hard drives so low these days, it can be a good investment install a second, relatively small 7200 RPM drive (or a really big one if the drive you have now is short of space), and move the main Paging File to that drive.

This is also a good strategy for data safety, since you can keep all your personal files on the second drive so when the time comes to reformat your boot drive and reinstall Windows (and that time will come!), you don't need to worry about backing up your data. Windows's "strategy" of dumping everything into a My Documents folder is no strategy at all, and setting up a proper document-filing system on a second hard drive is a good practice in any case. Most applications that work with documents and other files can have their default file-save destination folders changed in the application's options or preferences menu.  (BTW, with the TweakUI applet that comes with Windows XP Power Toys, you can easily change the location of the My Documents and other My" folders, where applications are installed, and other stuff.)

In this particular instance, with 2 GB of RAM, a Paging File with a minumum size of 2 GB is grossly excessive. Try scaling this back to something like 100/1000 and see how that works.  If you don't run into any problems and you still have noticeable disk access while running applications, try backing the maximum down to 800. And so on. A useful applet for monitoring RAM use is Cacheman XP. (http://www.outertech.com/)

Although the unregistered free version is mostly useful for monitoring your memory and Paging File usage, it will allow for some tweaks, the most useful being disabling Executive Paging, which will cause WinXP to keep more data in RAM and use the Paging File less. This is found in Cacheman's Tweaks tab (you can also edit this setting in the Registry, but I'm not going to recommend that in this venue).

There are more drastic recommendations out there, such as setting min and max to 300 MB, but being too aggressive in trimming down the Paging File can lead to problems, which while not fatal, can be aggravating to fix if you're not used to mucking around with your PC.  :)

Here's where to find the Performance logging in WinXP Pro (I don't know if this feature is available in XP Home):

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/callahfc/PerformanceLogs.jpg)

You did mean KB and not MB, right?


...I'm going to have to play with that. I have the sinking feeling that it's going to make me buy more RAM, too.

Lol! No; the official minimum memory requirement for Windows 3.1 is 1 MB (640 KB + 256 KB). Win95 requires 4 MB and Win98 requires 16 MB. So yeah, I was thinking more of functional requirements rather than the absolute minimum.   ;D

But we're not talking Apple II here, which had 48 KB of RAM (my Franklin Ace 1000 had 64 KB!).

I don't think the issue of overriding the default virtual-memory settings in any version of Windows really became an issue until folks began having machines with 128 MB of RAM or more, but that's just my subjective impression.

I hated Win3.1 on sight, so I knew I might have been misremembering the likely RAM amounts for the corresponding years, but aren't 64MB and 128MB still ridiculously high numbers for the pre-Win95 era? The 486 I owned around that time wasn't beefy enough for Win95, and it wasn't especially high end when it was brand new (1992-1993), but it was a remarkably solid machine (I used it until 2001 as a Linux box, and at one point I had it running for over 180 days without reboot -- with the events at either end of that span being a power outage and a thousand mile move), and that box had a whopping 8MB of RAM when it was new and I lated upgraded it to a staggering 20MB (so I could run XWindows, Netscape 4, three different graphics editing programs, a MU* client, Pine, emacs, and at least one instance of Lynx all at the same time without the machine crying like a baby).

Win3.1 was content with a memory alotment more like *2* MB, and Win95 could run on 16 tolerably. Naturally, it would still consume more than half of your RAM and continued to do so no matter how much you installed.

Wow Hegelian, what an awesome reply. I understand now what is happening with the two memory managers - indeed why shift stuff off the hard drive, into RAM, then into a pagefile - certainly not efficient, particularly if there is plenty of RAM.

I wonder whether it's possible to get an OS to run purely in RAM?

Anyway, I'll try tweaking the settings and ta for the link to cacheman. I want to save your text, it's very helpful, hope you don't mind?

ETA
First off I tried running the sims, it's running in the background now, cacheman shows I'm nowhere near the limit of my RAM.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/nz_witch/cacheman.jpg)

I don't understand why it says the paging file is 990Mb though, because I set it at the following - and have rebooted since.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v730/nz_witch/winxp.jpg)

Also, there seems to be no need to run a paging file at all on my PC, do you reckon it's safe to turn off?

I've not quite figured out why there is a mismatch between what Windows reports for the paging file in real time what what we set in the system settings. It appears to be making its calculation based on more than just the allocated hard drive space. In any case, if you find that you can run without problems with the 100/200 settings, that's good; I found that on my machine I needed to set it higher to avoid the occasional "low virtual memory" message. Since I'm not short on disc space and I get no disc thrashing, my 100/800 setting is good enough.  :)

What Cacheman is reporting for TS2 usage is probably just what the actual program file is using. That entry probably does not include whatever RAM is being used by the game content (downloads etc.), although I could be mistaken. The overall RAM usage of 1250 MB is in line with what I see when I run the game here. The Paging File use is also consistent with what I get with Exectutive Paging turned off.

For reasons I can't explain, Windows really needs a Paging File to work at its best; it just expects to see one and has issues when it does not. Also, some applications also expect to see one and don't run well (or at all) if you disable it completely. You can find testimonials on the Web from users who claim they run Windows with no Paging File without problems, but who are they and how reliable is their information, after all? Best practice is to have a Paging File, even if it is small. And if you have more than one drive, you should keep a small Paging File on the boot drive even if you relocate the main file to another drive.

BTW, on a machine running Win98 in 512 MB of RAM, I have the swap file maximum set to around 100-120 MB (I don't remember exactly), and when the swap-file usage approaches the upper limit, it goes to zero and then isn't used for the rest of the session. Windows sees a swap file so it works fine, but apparently the virtual memory manager thinks that once the upper limit is reached it isn't safe to use the swap file anymore and just ignores it (or maybe it's having a hissy fit).

BTW #2:  If you don't use iTunes you can turn off the iTunes service (services run in the backgound whether you're using them or not) to save resources and CPU cycles; recent versions of QuickTime install iTunes whether you want it or not. By default, WinXP automatically starts a number of unnecessary services (especially the Pro version), which can be either set to Manual (i.e., start as needed) or disabled altogether. There are two Web sites that go through the Services in detail and make recommendations regarding whether they should be Automatic, Manual, or Disabled. Although the Black Viper site appears to be better known, I think The Elder Geek site is more reliable, or at least gives more information.

http://www.theeldergeek.com/services_guide.htm
http://www.dead-eye.net/WinXP%20Services.htm

Note that some services are installed by applications such as anti-virus programs, so if you see one that one of these sites doesn't mention and you can't identify it, it's best to leave it as is. OTOH, if you don't use ATi hot keys for changing video settings on your ATi graphics board, it is safe to disable the ATi Hotkey Poller and ATi Smart (unless you have an XT version of an ATi board:)

The ATI Hotkey Poller service is only needed if you use the ATI Hotkey settings available in the ATI Control Center (See ATI Control Center section below). If you don't use these (and most people don't) you can safely double-click on this service and select 'Disabled' under the Startup Type box. However, if you have an 'XT' type ATI graphics card, then disabling this service can also disable the OverDrive section in the Control Center. Therefore I recommend that if you run an XT card, you should leave this service on Automatic, otherwise set it to Disabled. Further, if you run a laptop with an ATI graphics card, you may need to keep this service enabled to allow your LCD screen to switch off when the laptop is closed.

The ATI Smart service is a bit more vague, as it is not needed for the ATI SmartGart settings to work. It seems to continually detect system conditions at boot time and adjust SmartGart settings if needed to maintain stability, but in effect it's just a useless resource hog. I highly recommend disabling this service - I have experienced no negative impacts by doing so. You should still be able to adjust SmartGart settings without any problems (as detailed in the Advanced SmartGart and ATI Control Center section below), however if you find your SmartGart changes won't "stick", set this service to Automatic, change your SmartGart settings, reboot and then disable this service.
Copyright © 2006 Koroush Ghazi (TweakGuides.com)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c102/callahfc/Services.jpg)

Be aware that disabling certain essential services can prevent Windows from running!

Yeah, I was expecting the RAM to be used more heavily because I have about 2Gb of custom content in fact it was one of the things that I was hoping for with more RAM.
The CPU was running about 41% - 46% with just the sims, up until the moment I took a picture of the screen, then it jumped to 96%.

No, I decided to keep the paging file on C as the drives are much larger and much much faster. Good to know I could put it on another though. Ta, I'll keep a pagefile  running, I know Windoze has some weird legacy quirks.

XP sure does! I actually went through and cleaned out the services when I first set up the PC. I only noticed the new services (like itunes) when I saw the screen pic. Anything I'm not sure about I just put to manual startup anyway, so I haven't managed to wreck Windoze yet. :)

Good info about ATI - first time I've gone to those cards instead of nvidia, I'll have a play.

ETA Have cut down automatically starting services from 27 to 18 after reading those websites. :) (And windoze still boots).

When turning off start-up crap, it's a good idea to keep a list of what you changed.  :) I always used BlackViper's site, and once I had a problem with WindowsUpdate because something I'd set to manual that wasn't supposed to break anything prevented the updater from working right- and it took a lot of digging in the help section to figure out what, exactly, the problem was, it was so seemingly unrelated.  ::) So now I keep a print-out to help me trace down the problem if something goes kaplooie.

I have 2GB of RAM, and it looks like TS2 tends to use about 1.5GB, which normally keeps my page file to below 500MB.  However, I definitely think it was well worth it to add the 10000 RPM HD when I built my system last fall.  Even with a zillion downloads (at last count, I think it was 20k,  but I've downloaded a lot more since then) my game loads quickly, and barely a pause when I go to buy clothes, change appearance, etc. It's relatively expensive, especially for the size, but if you need more space for things that aren't game related, it's easy enough to throw in a huge 72000 RPM HD for storage and just keep windows and games on the fast one.

I also do not regret my X2.  :) I definitely need to consider upgrading it, while I still can, though. I don't need more power now, but I'd hate to not be able to get more if  I need it when the rest of my computer should hold me a couple years, at least.

Also: I highly recommend OCZ products. Their RAM was the lowest latency I could find- AND the least expensive, and when one of the sticks was erroring out in Memtest, they replaced it, no questions asked. Since I'm local to their headquarters, they even let me exchange it IN PERSON rather than paying for Fed Ex- just had to wait a day to give them time to test the new pair.  I ended up with one of their PSU's, and am extremely happy with its design, too. The fan sucks air in through the bottom and then out, so it works as an extra case fan, and it alone lowered my system temp by 10ºC.  A good product, low prices,  and excellent customer service will leave me singing their praises for a long time. Until, of course, they get too big and go the way of Alienware and ruin it all.  :D

I have a question: Does TS2 actually take advantage of dual-core processors, or does it only see a single processor? I'm trying to figure out if it makes sense to upgrade to a dual-core one, or just a faster single-core one, since I'm mainly upgrading to boost TS2 performance. Don't want to spend a ton of money on a dual-core one if it doesn't matter for the game.

Hmmm . . . .   :)

Chances are, probably not, at least not directly. A few games to seem to be able to take real advantage of two cores (or HyperThreading on a P4 with that feature), although from what I've seen, most do not. the impression I get from stuff I've read is that some games built on the most recent Quake/Doom engine (which I think is still OpenGL) can show some significant performance boosts with a dual-core CPU.

OTOH, even if you don't regularly use applications engineered to take advantage of dual cores (or dual CPUs), it seems that overall system performance can be enhanced, especially if you tend to run several apps at once. So that could be an argument for dual-core.

Finally, dual-core is where the market is heading, and in the not-too-distant future, single-core CPUs will be a thing of the past, rather like the Zilog Z80 and CP/M. And it seems that very soon if not just yet, single-core processors will be more expensive than comparable dual-core chips. Also, the dual-core CPUs require less power and generate less heat as a result.

If your current motherboard supports only single-core CPUs and you don't want to replace it, the choice is clear. Likewise, if you are going to replace both the motherboard and CPU, then it only makes sense to go with the forward-looking dual-core option rather than the end-of-the-road single-core option. However, I would wait until Intel releases its Core 2 CPUs sometime next month, as these are supposed to be introduced at very competetive prices, and AMD has apparently told vendors that it will cut its own prices significantly once the Intel chips are on the market.

There is one thing though that might induce you to go with a dual-core CPU today:  the Intel D805 dual-core (Pressler) can be had for about 120 USD here in the US, and with some luck and third-party cooling, can be overclocked to 4 GHz.   ;D

Tom's Hardware:  A 4.1 GHz Dual Core at $130 - Can it be True? (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/05/10/dual_41_ghz_cores/)

If you have a CPU that supports HyperThreading and you have or can set up a dual-monitor display, you can run the game on one monitor and have the Performance tab of Task Manager (or other performance-montoring app) on the other monitor, and you can see whether the game uses both processors (since HyperThreading makes the CPU appear to be two CPUs to the OS), and to what extent.

Some games known to be multi-thread or dual-core "aware" are:

Call of Duty 2
City of Villains
Quake 4
World of Warcraft
Age of Empires III
Black & White 2
Peter Jackson's King Kong
The Movies
Battlefield 2 & Battlefield 2: Special Forces
Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced
Warfighter
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six 3
Tony Hawk's American Wasteland
Unreal Tournament 2007 (forthcoming)
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

OK, thanks for the reply :). My motherboard can handle dual-core processors, so that would not be a limitation. This is the last upgrade I can do for this computer, pretty much, and the CPU ungradeability was one of the main reasons we chose this particular motherboard. At the moment still, single-core CPUs are considerably cheaper than dual-core CPUs, at least here in Finland. From what I heard from my husband, AMD has already annouced something like a 50% price cut on many of their processors, so I'm going to wait until those prices reach Finland, and then buy one. I'm not planning on getting anything very "top-of-the-line", I will be satisfied with something like a 2,4GHz one or similar (current one is 1,8Ghz). I'll have to wait and see where the prices settle after the cut, and if a dual-core one will be of a reasonable price, then possibly get one of those. Not quite sure yet.

Many of the games in Hegelian's list are only partially multiple-CPU compat. Quake4 for example will only send the sound to the secondary CPU, as will PJ's Kong game. If you have a crappy (or onboard) soundcard this will result in significant performance increase, but it won't matter much if you have an Audigy-like card which already has a good coprocessor of its own.

Most games unfortunately still use a single thread. Any game which does so will not benefit from multiple processors in any way, unless you can tweak your system so that the system's threads all run on CPU1 and your game on CPU2.

What I'm reading is that AMD has told its customers privately that it will cut prices signifcantly once Intel's Core 2 CPUs are released, currently slated for 23 July. This is apparently because Intel's planned pricing scheme is quite agressive.

AMD Plans Major CPU Price Drops Day After "Conroe" (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2800)

Yeah, that must be what the hubby was talking about. Looks like the likes of AMD Athlon 64 X2 4600+ might actually be afforable after the planned price cut. July 24th, hmm, guess I'll need to wait some more  :P

Geez I'm confused!  ::)  I have a computer with an intel pentium 4 3.00ghz processor which my little brother is due to inherit some time soon so I can buy a new one. Now I've managed to figure out what I need in the way of graphics cards and memory etc, but I am completely lost on the whole cpu thing when comparing Intel and AMD. I want a processor that is at least as good as the one I am handing off, better would be preferable, but I'm going with AMD this time around. When I was having a play around on the alienware site all the AMD's seem to have speeds slower than 3.00ghz.
 
Example: An 'AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 5000+ Processor w/ HyperTransport and Dual Core Technology' has a listed processor speed of 2.6ghz. wtf?

I must be missing some crucial point here (lol) but basically, if I was looking at getting a processor that is better than the one I have at the moment, what would be the starting point in the AMD line up?

The bottom line is that while clock speed has been used as a metric for CPU performance for the common peasantry for ages, that's not the only factor which decides the performance of a CPU. The short version is that AMD engages in a bit of hardware chicanery that attempts to wrangle equivalent performance out of a lower clock speed, but to the common peasant, this makes very poor advertising, so they use those inflated numbers to post its "equivalency" to an Intel CPU of similar clocking. This, of course, mostly serves to confuse the issue.

My fiance is friends with a guy that is a Senior Design Architect for Intel and his recommendation for upgrading was to buy AMD. He said that Intel made a huge mistake but they will rectify that within 5 years as they are planning on using liquid nitro to break the 5ghz limitations. He said that cpu chips will come in an enclosed refrigeration unit.  Sounds expensive to me.

Righty-o then, I shall just ignore processor speed from now on. :D   Thanks for the reply JM.

I'm not saying processor speed doesn't matter. All other things equal, a higher processor speed makes a more powerful processor. However, all other things are NOT equal. There's a lot more complicated stuff that I personally am not that well acquainted with at work here, but it's enough to say that raw processor clock speed is not the only factor at work, just like how how a weapon with a faster firing rate isn't necessarily a better gun.

I'm getting a new computer today, but the graphics card won't cut it for Sims 2.  At least, I don't think so (ATI X200 Express).  So, I'm just wondering what graphics card you guys think I should get.  $450 is the most I'm willing to spend on one.  Also, the system comes with 528 MB RAM, and I'm wondering if that's enough for Sims 2.  So, if the RAM doesn't cut it, what RAM should I get?

At least a gig of RAM, and at least an ATI X800, which will run you around $200 (you can put the rest of that $450 towards getting as much RAM as possible :)).

I would try to get at least 1GB of RAM.

I merged your thread with Hegelian's - lots of good info in this thread.

Was that before or after Intel's Core 2 CPUs ship next month?   :)


The mistake Intel made was assuming it could continue to increase raw clock speeds without excessive power-consumption and heat issues by continuously shrinking the die, which turned out to be wrong. The solution for the foreseeable future for both Intel and AMD is multiple, lower-power cores in each CPU unit.

FWIW, Intel's new "Athlon killer" CPUs were designed by Intel's team in Israel.  8)


You don't need a $450 graphics board for TS2, and buying at the top of the price curve is usually a mistake unless money is no object. That said, you can (sort of) future-proof your PC for a couple years by going with something like the Radeon X1900 GT (under US$300) or X1800XT (under $250). OTOH, you can get a PowerColor X800 GTO for US$120, and while it won't match the performance of the other boards, it offers more performance per dollar (I have a Sapphire X800 GTO in one PC and an X800 GT in another, and they work quite well—my game performance is limited by my 2.8 GHz P4).

One thing that makes TS2 quite different from most 3D games is the extent to which it is scalable to your hardware. Most games have fairly "hard" minimum hardware requirements, and if you don't meet them you don't play the game. But TS2 will run on some pretty old and underpowered PCs—at greatly reduced levels of visual detail. For the most part, this compromise doesn't affect gameplay:  you don't get cinematics, you can only invite a couple sims to parties, and community lots may look like slide shows. But the improvements in the look and feel of the game with a graphics board that allows all settings to be set to High and the surrounding landscape to be seen when playing a lot really improves the overall game experience, and there are game situations where having more rather than fewer sims at a party or on a community lot can be a real advantage. There is a significant difference between what is needed and what is optimal.

Let's say you went toward the high end with the X1900 GT. That would leave US$150 of that US$450 for a second hard drive (for documents and archives, media files, and the main paging file), and more RAM. IMO that woud be a better buy than spending the entire $450 on a graphics board.

Bear in mind that some high-end PCI-E graphics boards require a dedicated lead from the power supply, so you will want to check the PSU to see if it will support the board you end up buying.

One thing to keep in mind when buying a graphics board now is that Windows Vista ships next year with DirectX 10, and DX10 will be Vista-only; so if TS3 is released as a DX10 game, you will need to upgrade both your OS and your graphics board to play it. Therefore, it's probably a good idea to make the board you buy now the last one you need until you need  one with DX10 support in hardware. The X1900 model I mentioned above would probably fit the bill.   ;D


As others have said, get 1 GB at the minimum. If your new PC has a motherboard that supports dual-channel RAM, you need two modules in order to have dual-channel operation (so that would be 512 x 2). WinXP is happier with 1 GB than with 512 MB, and TS2 will certainly use more than 1 GB if it's available (although you may need to modify/reduce the paging file settings to get Windows to use all your available RAM).

He said it last week, what he was referring to I'm not exactly sure.  Just thought it was strange that he recommended AMD.

You know, I've been wondering: How does the X64 stuff affect existing programs and the OS? That part has me stumped.

From everything I've read, the 64-bit extensions in current CPUs only really have an affect when running a 64-bit OS like WinXP Pro x64 or Windows Server 2003 x64. So it's partly marketing and partly future-proofing; in the long run, it is probably more economical to make all your processors 64-bit capable rather than having separate 32-bit and 64-bit products.

Of course, unless you have 64-bit apps, there's not much point in running a 64-bit version of Windows on a desktop. The ony realy advantage with current apps is that the 64-bit OS can address 32 GB of RAM compared to 4 GB for WinXP, and as much as 4 GB is available to 32-bit apps, compared to 2 GB for WinXP.

Tom's Hardware:  Windows XP x64, Promise and Reality (http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/08/23/windows_xp_x64/)

Am I looking at compatibility issues if I just plug Ye Olde Windoze for Ye Olde 32 Bit Machines onto one of these newfangled gewgaws?

No.   :)

In fact, as far as I know, all current Athlon CPUs from AMD and most if not all current Pentium CPUs from Intel include 64-bit support, so you don't have a choice since you can't buy WinXP x64 off the shelf (you can only upgrade online or buy it pre-installed on a new PC).

This isn't the first time we've been down this road:  MS-DOS and 16-bit Windows (Win 3.1?) ran fine on 80386 and 80486 CPUs, which were 32-bit processors.

/me stares blankly.
People buy Windoze?

Of course. If you build your own machines, you need to get it somewhere (of course if you don't want to pay you can obtain a pirated copy—but I don't do that). And if you already have a copy, you need to buy the upgrades if you want to "move up." WinXP Pro x64 is not available as a retail upgrade, and apparently the "exchange" program for users with WinXP Pro expired in July 2005.

Of course, as with other versions of Windows, if you shop around you can probably find the OEM package of x64, although you may need to buy a bit of hardware (or the seller will include some broken bit like a non-functioning $10 mouse) to meet Microsoft's OEM resale requirements.   8)

I just read this morning that IBM and researchers at Georgia Tech have produced a prototype CPU that runs at 500 GHz when cooled to 5° Kelvin using liquid helium (that is -268.5° C). The processor runs at 350 GHz at room temperature. It is not likely we will be seeing these for the desktop anytime soon, very possibly never. Note that the team believes that using silicon-germanium technology, it can achieve 1000 GHz.

Although Intel is the big dog in the desktop market, IBM is definitely still a major player at the high end of silicon-chip engineering.

IBM accelerates silicon to more than 500 GHz (http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/06/20/ibm_500ghz_chip/)

Will the processor actually *REMAIN* at room temperature when you run it, or is it going to wind up 5 times hotter than the surface of the sun?

Well, no. But the processor you have now doesn't remain at room temperature when you run it, either. I read the article as meaning it will run within its design parameters in "room temperature" ambient temps—in other words,without a cooling apparatus like a heatsink-fan assembly, or at least without heroic cooling measures.

Yes, but would this 350 GHz machine require heroic cooling just to KEEP it at room temperature, or are normal measures adequate?

maybe with 10ghz we can reduce the cooling ? ;D

btw. i'm thinkin about a laptop..
ausus, with a gefo inside, it whould be a dual core 3Ghz with 1gb ram...
mabye 1gb it's a bit low...  but i'm pretty intrested in a laptop.. about 1500€ same in dollars +/-
any suggestion about that ?

The issue with laptops is always the same:  for what are you going to use it? Does your primary use require (or is greatly facilitated by) the mobility of a laptop? If so, then the 1000€ price premium over an eqivalent desktop is probably worth it. Otherwise, laptops are not at all a good value for money in price/performance terms.

If your primary use is for gaming and you're not going to LAN parties, a laptop is a poor choice. In order to keep weight and heat down, laptops are way underpowered compared to a desktop at the same price. You can build or buy close to a state-of-the-performance-art desktop PC for US$1500 (not including monitor), whereas the same money gets you a nice laptop near the top of the low-power-consumption mobile CPU range (i.e., Centrino and  Core Duo—Intel really is the leader in this market segment), but even the best of these don't top 2.2 GHz. Now, because of performance optimizations and massive L2 caches, these CPUs based on the P6 architecture (Pentium Pro) rather than the high-speed, high-wattage P7 "NetBurst" architecture (Pentium 4) can hold their own with desktop CPUs up to around 2.8~3.0 GHz in many applications, but probably not with apps that benefit from sheer CPU speed (like TS2). BTW, Intel's imminent Core 2 dual-core CPUs are based on the P6 architecture, which goes some way in explaining how they can outperform P4-based CPUs that run at higher clock frequencies.

Now, you can buy a laptop that (with the exception of its LCD display) can match an upper-end desktop PC in gaming performance, but you're going to spend in excess of US$3000 and end up with a heavy (5.5+ kg), hot (you've got a desktop CPU crammed into a tight space), loud (the tiny CPU fan will be buzzing all the time), and upgrade-limited machine. Some of these run so hot you can't actually use them as laptops. As for the display, despite advances in LCD technology, games and other primarily visual applications (photo-editing is one) still look much better on a CRT. Of course, you can probably attach a CRT to the laptop, but then you've lost most of the advantage of having one. Oh—don't forget that the keyboards on laptops can be difficult to type on and are mediocre at best (and you don't get a separate numeric keypad); the keyboards on business models tend to be quite a bit better than those on "consumer" models. OTOH, for US$3000 you can build or buy a killer desktop rig that will last you for several years before performance becomes an issue.

I'm not saying don't buy the laptop. I have a company-paid laptop myself because I work from home, and with a properly-secured wireless node on my network, the mobility is quite nice. But I'm writing this on my desktop, both because the display is much better (a larger LCD; I also have an inexpensive CRT attached for games and Photoshop), and because the relatively inexpensive IBM keyboard is much easier to type on than the (relatively good) keyboard on the laptop. What I am saying is evaluate—objectively—your needs before spending the extra €€ for a laptop you don't really need. In another month, Intel's very interesting next-generation CPUs will ship at what are reported to be very competetive prices. My personal opinion is that this is a bad time to be buying a new PC; wait a month and see what's available once the Core 2 processors ship and AMD slashes prices on its CPUs.   ;D

FWIW, ASUS and other mid-range manufacturers source ther laptops from just a handful of Taiwanese OEM builders, so unless you're buying a Dell, HP, or IBM (Lenovo), they're all pretty much the same. I don't know that there's much to choose between the integrated graphics from nVidia and ATI, although the nVidia laptop display controllers probably suffer from the same driver issues as do its desktop products and from what I've read in various places, ATI still offers superior image quality. Regardless, whatever you get, be sure it has at least a 5400-RPM hard drive (instead of 4200 RPM); 7200 RPM is better but you'll pay for it.

indeed my friend...
this is a sort of .."to buy or not to buy ...?"
ehe.. i wish a powerfull laptop 'cause i've 2 pc (@home / @work)

i'm my boss ... i've an internet point but "my job" is also to model and do render for some architect...

i wish to buy a laptop just to play with my sims...on this way i'll stop to have 2 sims installed (@home @work)
and also i will test / install my objec just on the laptop and all "source" of the objects, like texture and meses will be in the laptop, that i'll use to "sinc." the @work pc with the @home pc...

i hope that will be clear (isn't easy to explane it with my eglish lol)

the problem of the laptop could be the ram.. @home pc have 2gigs..
wile @work pc is a Dell Dual Xeon 2Ghz with 1GB ram (Rimm @ 600Mhz) with a quadroFx 1100 (128megs)
that pc is the one that i use to made 3d model/meshes and  render too.

i've seen some alienware laptop that could be intresting but maybe a bit expensive ^^

With DrBeast's help, I've configured a PC that I am going to get in 3 weeks!  Woo!  (just had to share that).

Cool! Wish I could say the same.

*sigh*
It's really a joy for me to config computers. I did that for a friend of mine about a month ago, and he's very happy. I hope Blue will be happy with the config I cooked up for her. But to he perfectly honest, I do feel a bit jealous because I know I won't be able to get a new 'puter in the near future  :-[

You don't want to know what I'm doing in order to afford this new computer.  :P

Let's just say Chinese noodles will be extremely popular next month.

At least you've got your priorities right, Blue.   From experience, I can also recommend tomato soup and ziti.   More filling than Chinese.   ::)

[Edit.  Staying on topic, am still fiddling with my page file numbers.  Too low and XP kicks in with yellow warning signals.  I now have my initial setting at 750 - much less HD whirring noises.  A work in progress]

Ewww, tomato soup.

It's actually not quite as dire as Chinese noodles only for the month, but let's just say I will actually be cooking as opposed to going out for every meal like I do now.

Say, who can tell me how a stove works?  :P

(Kidding.  I know how it works, but I've never used my oven, I don't think.)

I didn't see any ads for BlueSoup ass for sale, so it can't be that bad.

An ancient Chinese proverb states, "If you want to be Chinese, you have to eat nasty food."

So get used to it, and amazingly enough, you'll start to actually build up a cash surplus. You may even realize how much FUN it is to build up a cash surplus and learn to enjoy hoarding.

No good asking me mate, I BURN all my food and keep setting off the smoke alarm.;)

Just a quick question. I read the article about the new Intel processor, and it says that it's for desktops. Does that mean that if I'm going to buy a new laptop, there's no reason to wait until July?

Thanks!

There will be a mobile Core Duo CPU ("Merom") that Intel claims is 20% faster than its current "Yonah" dual-core laptop CPUs at the same level of power consumption. I don't know if these processors will be released at the same time as the desktop models.

OK, just a little update on the CPU update discussion: I decided to go for a "regular" one, not a dual-core, since it seemed like I wouldn't benefit from a dual-core processor at the moment, and I wanted to get most out of my money with a single-core one. I was planning to wait a while until the predicted price cuts would take effect, but then we heard that AMD stopped making processors suitable for my motherboard at the end of June, so I decided to go for it before it was too late. So, now I have an AMD Athlon 64 3800+ (2,4 GHz) that my hubby just installed. Haven't really used it enough yet to tell if there is any noticeable difference in how the game runs and such.

After reading thru this, I set up my system to log my page file usage...but instead of waiting being slightly impatient...I cut my page file in half, you know just to see what's it do. I fired up the Sims. For the first time ever I zoomed out to look at my hood and the PC responded immediately, cruised around the corners. Zoomed in, cruised around. Nice and smooth.  ;D Thank You!

Okay, I'll freely admit to being an end-user here. Wouldn't know the first thing about building my own pc. I usually rely on my son-in-law for those chores, but since he's busy these days...

Can anybody recommend a solid store bought machine that will run my Sims 2 and all the EP's with no problems? That's about the only game I have on this machine...plus a couple of minor games that I seldom play with.

I'm looking to replace the CPU on my current seven year old machine, which is a modified Gateway. I see that some stores are just selling the CPU and not the whole package, and that's really all I need. Everything else is good. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask this kind of question, but like I said...I'm an end user. What do I know? Not a whole lot.

You might be very lucky to even find a cpu for a seven year old machine I'm afraid Jarsie. A lot has changed in that time. I think Gateway are not high end anyway. Laeshanin recently got a really good package deal with reasonable quality components, it might pay to look for something like that.

Your board probably wouldn't take today's video cards either.

Okay, excuse my ignorance, but I thought the CPU was the tower with everything in it. That's what I was talking about, not the hardrive. I'm talking about replacing the whole enchilada, but just the tower with the main components.

I realize that CPU means central processing unit (if I'm not mistaken) but I thought that was included in the machine when you bought the tower with all its components (like the hard drive and the dvd/cd drives that come with it.

And some stores are selling the towers with the components, so I shouldn't have to replace my monitor, mouse or keyboard. That's what I'm referring to, and if anybody knows a good brand, please let me know, because, frankly, I don't have the know how or the time to build it myself, and I don't trust anyone but my son-in-law to do it for me.

Any of the top brands should be more than satisfactory:  HP, Dell, Gateway, Sony, Acer; even eMachines has turned out a few decent budget PCs (thankfully Packard Bell is no more). You can get a really nice PC without monitor direct from HP for about $600 including shipping, although you may want to add a separate graphics board at some point to replace the integrated graphics (but this will be true of any budget PC).

Sorry Jarsie, I misunderstood. Generally the CPU - which is the central processing unit you're right - is the chip, the brain, that sits on the motherboard. Roughly about 2-3inches square it can be swopped out and replaced by a faster chip on the same motherboard inside the same box. That was what I thought you were asking, it's something I do as often as I can afford it really.

I guess Tower is a better word for the whole enchilada. :)

This is a picture of a cpu (http://www.fonerbooks.com/replace/cpu_6.jpg).

When I was googling for a picture I saw many people actually call their box, tower, machine, PC - whatever - I see many call it a CPU. A CPU is actually just a component.

I know many Brits also call the machine a 'hard drive' - a hard drive is just another component inside. The bit that stores information like your files and the operating system. Very confusing eh? ;)

If the CPU is the brain, the IQ, then the hard drive is the memory.

No, the memory is the memory -- the hard drive is the library. :)

Yeah I suppose. Though I was thinking of it in relation to a real brain, where the permanent storage / hard drive is the memory. RAM would be short term memory because it's dynamic.

Yea, that analogy works too... :)

Thanks for the explanations.

I plan to spend some serious money on geting  a new comp when the time comes.

I was looking into getting a new computer and I am hoping someone could help me with a few things. I love to play different types of games on my computer as well as the sims 2 and expansion packs and on my computer i have now i get a lot of lag so i would like to upgrade to a computer with more than 512mb of memory and 80gb and this is the computer I am looking at right now. I was wondering if this computer would be more than sufficient for running games.
 
Gateway® FX510XT
  Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor X6800 (2.93GHz, 1066MHz FSB, 4MB cache)3 
  Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Media Center Edition 2005 (Update Rollup 2) w/ XP Media Center Backup2 
  Microsoft® Office Basic Edition 2003 (Includes Word, Excel and Outlook)2 
  Intel® 975X Chipset with DDR2 and Intel® Core Duo support 
  4096MB PC5300 Dual-Channel DDR2 667MHz SDRAM (4-1024MB modules) 
  1000GB (1TB) Serial ATA II/300 7200RPM with Raid 0 (2-500GB hard drives - striping)4 
  9-in-1 media card reader 
  16x Double-Layer Multi-Format DVD Writer (DVD±/R±RW/CD-R/RW) and 48X/32X/48X CD-RW Drive 
  Desktop Value Service Plan -- 1 year parts/labor/no on-site/1 year technical support5 
  Gateway 7-bay tower case 
  Integrated Serial ATA Controller 
  (2) PCI expansion slots (filled), (1) PCI-E x1 expansion slot (available). (1) PCI-E x16 expansion slot (available) 
  (6) USB 2.0 (2 in front and 4 in back), (3) IEEE 1394 Firewire (2 in front and 1 in back), (1) Serial, (2) PS/2, (1) RJ-45 Integrated LAN, (1) VGA, (1) Microphone, front audio ports 
  Energy Star® compliant 
  FPD2185W 21" Black Widescreen High-Definition LCD Analog/Digital Performance Flat Panel Display with 4 Powered USB Ports (Includes height-adjustable stand) 
  Dual card ATI Radeon® X1900 XT CrossFire™ solution w/512MB DDR3 memory (per card), DVI, VGA (via adapter), & TV-Out 
  Gateway® elite multimedia keyboard and soft-touch USB optical wheel mouse (no mouse pad included) 
  2-piece speaker solution
 

This would be more than sufficient for running just about anything you can load under WinXP.

Unless you're editing video, buying this in anticipation of Vista, or intend to upgrade to the 64-bit version of WinXP Pro, 4 GM of RAM is a waste of money. In extreme circumstances, WinXP can use 4 GB of RAM, but individual processes (such as games) can only have up to 2 GB. If you do stick with the 4 GB, don't be surprised if Windows reports only 3 GB in your PC; see here (http://forums.2cpu.com/showthread.php?t=63004) for more.

I would be a bit skeptical of the 1000 GB RAID 0 drive array. Unless you're doing video editing or archiving every MP3 in the known universe (and if you are, you should be archiving to DVD and not your hard drive), that's more space than you can possibly use. Also, by striping with a RAID 0 array, there is no data redundancy so if one drive goes down your whole installation is hosed.

For the amount of money you would be spending on this, you'd be better off with four smaller drives in a RAID 5 array (three data drives and one parity drive for data integrity). For best performance you'd put the OS and applications on 10K RPM drives, and have large 7200 RPM drives for storage. An example would be a single Western Digital 150-GB Raptor (10K RPM) for the boot drive (or a pair in RAID 0) plus large-capacity (≥ 250 GB) drives in RAID 5 (two striped plus parity drive for data integrity); you lose the capacity of the parity drive but if one of the other fails, you can rebuilt your data on a replacement drive without having to reinstall anything. Of course, you don't protect your OS installation in this configuration, but it is less expensive than a RAID 5 array using five 10K RPM drives.   ;D

If it's an option, forget Media Center and get WinXP Pro, especially if you plan on doing any networking.

This system could be enhanced by the addition of a Sound Blaster audio board, but I see that both PCI slots are used, so that's not an option. It might be useful to find out what is in those slots, because if you want to add wireless networking, you're probably better off using a PCI adapter than a USB adapter.

Don't get the McAfee security software—it's junk. For antivirus, do a Web search for AVG Free Edition by Grisoft. If you need a stand-alone firewall, try Zone Alarm (if you're going to be using a router, you don't really need a software firewall, but sometimes WinXP's networking seems to function better with the Windows firewall activated). The utilities in Norton Systemworks still work very well, and are worthwhile (SpeedDisk, Disk Doctor, Win Doctor). The Norton anti-virus works well but isn't worth the cost of the subscription renewal as long as AVG Free is available. Also, some viruses are designed to by-pass or break Norton AV (while the Norton products are still quite good, they aren't what they were when it was still Peter Norton's company).

I am not that computer literate  ;). I really would like a computer that handles the sims games really well and a few other programs that run in the background. I tend to have a problem with my virtual memory and that is the basis of me wanting more space and memory. That particular computer would run me almost $4500.

Keep in mind that for best performance, the more physical RAM you have, the lower your paging file (virtual memory) settings should be. With 4 GB RAM, your paging file should be quite small—probably under 500 MB.

The primary factor in TS2 performance is the CPU, followed by the graphics board and physical RAM.

I don't want to be a pain Hegelian and I truly appreciate all the advice, but I really need to know: what brand of computers tend to be the best for gaming?  I am on a Gateway right now and the next computer I want will have to have  everything I need for gaming. Thank you.

I was planning on bying a Radeon X1900 GT, but now I'm a bit concerned that TS2 won't run proberly because this card isn't mentioned in the Sims 2 Read me.  ::)

Does anyone have this card?

Depends on what your gaming preferences are, but any name-brand unit with a sufficiently powerful CPU and high-end graphics board should do. Two GB of RAM should be sufficient, but WinXP can use more (although you may not be able to see it). Remember, the more RAM you have the smaller your paging file needs to be in order to actually use all the RAM (and eliminate unnecessary disk access). However, because of the way Windows and many apps are designed, you can't safely eliminate the paging file altogether.

HP direct is a good value right now (in the U.S., anyway), but you can surely find other good deals if you shop around. The boutique brands like Alienware and Falcon tend to be overpriced for what you get, although the fit 'n finish is usually top-notch.

In any event, you're more likely to be happy with your new PC if you can customize it during the ordering stage (this is why people build their own). If you choose to get a pre-configured machine, be sure to check things like amount of RAM, hard-drive rotational speed and interface (SATA and 7200 RPM minimum), and the number of available PCI slots (for things like a sound card or wireless networking card). If possible, try to get the specifications for the power supply, which is where a lot of builders cut corners. You should try to get voltage regulation within 5%—3% is better and 1% is preferable. Many so-called "450W" power supplies only offer their rated voltages within ±10% or worse (in reality, this is usually minus rather than plus-or-minus) and may only deliver 50-60% of their rated wattage at normal operating temps. Or you could take whatever the builder uses and buy a quality after-market PS from PC Power & Cooling.

If you have plans for upgrading in the future, keep in mind that most PCs shipped by Dell and Gateway now use the BTX form-factor, which is a different motherboard design and layout from the standard ATX design (BTX was designed by Intel to improve cooling air flow for the 4+ GHz Prescott CPUs it was planning but eventually dropped because of heat and power-consumption issues). BTX motherboards require BTX cases and, possibly, BTX power supplies.


A graphics board that wasn't yet released when the game went to press isn't going to be on the list. What you need to worry about are older boards that aren't on the list. I wouldn't worry about an X1900.   :)

Ok when it comes to hardware issues I'm at a complete loss. I understand a lot but not enough to figure out who is right so I need help. First I'll show you my computers specs:
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2 (2600.xpsp_sp2_gdr.050301-1519)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Dell Inc.
       System Model: MXC051                         
               BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A03
          Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) M processor 1.86GHz
             Memory: 2040MB RAM
          Page File: 546MB used, 3386MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
     DxDiag Version: 5.03.2600.2180 32bit Unicode

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
        Card name: Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family
     Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
        Chip type: Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset
         DAC type: Internal
       Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2592&SUBSYS_01B51028&REV_03
   Display Memory: 128.0 MB
     Current Mode: 1280 x 800 (32 bit) (60Hz)
          Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
  Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
      Driver Name: ialmrnt5.dll
   Driver Version: 6.14.0010.4410 (English)
      DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
 Driver Date/Size: 10/14/2005 21:06:58, 36990 bytes
      WHQL Logo'd: Yes
  WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
              VDD: n/a
         Mini VDD: ialmnt5.sys
    Mini VDD Date: 10/14/2005 21:15:18, 1302812 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-66D2-11CF-A262-BF21A2C2CB35}
        Vendor ID: 0x8086
        Device ID: 0x2592
        SubSys ID: 0x01B51028
      Revision ID: 0x0003
      Revision ID: 0x0003
      Video Accel:
 Deinterlace Caps: n/a
         Registry: OK
     DDraw Status: Enabled
       D3D Status: Enabled
       AGP Status: Not Available
DDraw Test Result: Not run
 D3D7 Test Result: Not run
 D3D8 Test Result: Not run
 D3D9 Test Result: Not run

        Card name: Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family
     Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
        Chip type: Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset
         DAC type: Internal
       Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_2792&SUBSYS_01B51028&REV_03
   Display Memory: 128.0 MB
     Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (60Hz)
          Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
  Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
      Driver Name: ialmrnt5.dll
   Driver Version: 6.14.0010.4410 (English)
      DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
 Driver Date/Size: 10/14/2005 21:06:58, 36990 bytes
      WHQL Logo'd: Yes
  WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
              VDD: n/a
         Mini VDD: ialmnt5.sys
    Mini VDD Date: 10/14/2005 21:15:18, 1302812 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B78E66-64D2-11CF-A262-BF21A2C2CB35}
        Vendor ID: 0x8086
        Device ID: 0x2792
        SubSys ID: 0x01B51028
      Revision ID: 0x0003
      Revision ID: 0x0003
      Video Accel:
 Deinterlace Caps: n/a
         Registry: OK
     DDraw Status: Enabled
       D3D Status: Enabled
       AGP Status: Not Available
DDraw Test Result: Not run
 D3D7 Test Result: Not run
 D3D8 Test Result: Not run
 D3D9 Test Result: Not run

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: SigmaTel Audio
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Hardware ID: HDAUDIO\FUNC_01&VEN_8384&DEV_7690&SUBSYS_102801B5&REV_1022
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: sthda.sys
         Driver Version: 5.10.4717.0000 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 9/9/2005 18:15:32, 1032472 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: SigmaTel
         HW Accel Level: Full
              Cap Flags: 0xB5B
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 44100, 96000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
               Registry: OK
      Sound Test Result: Not run

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
            Description: SigmaTel Audio
  Default Sound Capture: Yes
  Default Voice Capture: Yes
            Driver Name: sthda.sys
         Driver Version: 5.10.4717.0000 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 9/9/2005 18:15:32, 1032472 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x41
           Format Flags: 0xCC0

OK I might have shared to much for my question but I just wanted to be sure. I've been told by several different people that this system will handle TS2 and expansionns just fine and I've had others tell me that my graphics card being intergrated will cause me serious problems after about a month or so of play. When I bought the system I told whom ever I talked to the specs I needed for TS2 and I wanted more because I know how quickly game specs can go up. So I'd love any help on who is right. Can I play TS2 without issues or should I complain and get a new system?

I don't see a real graphics chipset of any kind, so it's going to run awfully if it runs at all.

Chip type: Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset

Isn't that a chipset? But yeah you answered my question. Funny thing is I have played it on this system and it works great but I've been told that it's only because it's new so it'll run it for awhile because processer is new and blah blah. I guess I'll be hoping to get a new system.

That's not *REAL* graphics. That's Crap Graphics.

It's a nice video chipset but it doesn't have hardware T&L, so you'll need a 2.5 GHz processor or better to compensate.

How is that "nice"? I have tons of old graphics cards that don't do the 3D thing, so why is this one special? These things have demonstrably proven themselves insuperior to my ancient Voodoo Banshee, and we all know old THAT thing is.

Well, I've never used it myself but I've heard good things about from somewhere.  :D

You don't have a separate video card. Never use a computer without a video card for gaming, you're just asking for headaches. Video cards are quite simple to install, and for TS2 you don't even need an expensive one.

Somewhere? What the hell kind of somewhere has anything good to say about a non-video-card?

I had 4 Gatways since 1999 and I finally got rid of all of them.  I switched to an Athalon and I'm really glad that I am now out from under Gatway products (except the monitor and keyboard--I ran out of money to upgraqde them).  I went with the AMD 64 Processor 3200+, 3 GHz processor, 3 gigs of ram, Radeon x1600 video card.  I want to upgrade my video card even more but this one has been adequate.  I use my computer to take screenies for my website (http://www.ladymoiraine.com/modules.php?set_albumName=PCGames&op=modload&name=Gallery1_5&file=index&include=view_album.php) and since I've switched to the Radeon, I've had much better clarity in my games.  I upgraded my computer to run Oblivion and I have no trouble doing so with this system.  It was easy staying with Gateway but once they changed their tech help to almost zero, I decided to turn to the Athalon and am very happy I did.  Get away from that Gateway and even Dell, those kind of computers are totally under the control of those companies.  You have to buy THEIR stuff and I didn't like that, now I buy the best of what I can afford and I still save double the money than what I paid at Gateway.  This is a good site to see if your computer can run specific games, System Requirements Lab (http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/referrer/srtest).

Great that's what I thought. Thank you for confirming it in the best way possible by telling me it's crap. Hehe I really do like answers like that. They are honest.


Yes but this is a laptop. Not so easy to install or replace. )o:

Edit: ok so I lied I guess I can upgrade my graphics card. Though I was told since it was an intergrated card I couldn't. Uhg. I hate being told so many different things. It certainly does not help me get any better at this hardware crap. Anyone know what to do when I get my new card so that the intergrated one won't take over?

Another damn Edit: Ok I'm pretty calm but seriously am pissed off now! I can't replace my video card like I orginally thought so I'm sending back this new computer and will be buying a new one! In which I'll be much better in buying what I need. If anyone would like to help me out in figuring out what I need EXACTLY instead of just suggestions I'd be entirely greatful! Laptop is a must! I'll probably try to make my best friend who DOES know what he's talking about help me but he's so busy these days that'll it'll be a miracle if I can get ahold of him. Uhg stupi stupid stupid people!
K done with my rant for here anyway. 

You can get laptops with ATI Radeon Mobility 300 graphics cards, which work fine for TS2.  Just get at least 128Mb on the video, preferably 256Mb if it's available.

Thank you I will look for that!

I think you got your gigahertzes mixed up. I used to have the same processor, Athlon 64 3200+, and it's only 1,8 GHz. My current processor, Athlon 64 3800+ is 2,4 GHz.

It's a common confusion. The short version being that In the Beginning, when all processors were similar, people got used to measuring the performances in MHz and the GHz. Of course, clock rate isn't the true measure of computer performance, but the average peasant doesn't really understand this, so when they basically couldn't really improve clock speeds any faster, and started getting computers to go faster by other methods, which actually had lower clock rates, it'd be a tough sell to try to peddle a 1.8 GHz machine as "faster" than someone's former 2 GHz machine. It just wouldn't sell. So they started just tagging numbers like "3200" onto the thing, and then small-printing the actual clockrate.

In the case of AMD processors, its invariably because of the dual core (so AMD 4200 at 2.2 GHz gets about 4400 bogomips).

Wow, I've never seen or heard that word before. What's a bogomip?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BogoMips

So with a 4400 dual core Athlon, how many bogomips do I have? How many times a second can my computer do absolutely nothing?  ;D

Bogomips - so cool!

I would guess that a 4400 would get around 4400 bogomips, but you need some system info program to tell you for sure.

Oh OK, I thought from the 4200 chip having higher bogomips than 4200, there was some kind of rough equation that had to be applied to guesstimate the bogomips. I didn't see anything like that on your link though.

I have a 9800 128 radeon. If I wanted a better video card, say a radeon with 256, still an agp, which one should I go to?
And I suppose I would have to change my power supply(say, for a seasonic): http://support.euro.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/techov.htm#1102452
And would my cooling system be up to it? http://support.euro.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/specs.htm
And wouldn't it be too expensive?
So many experts here.  ;D

Currently the best AGP option (in the U.S., anyway) is the X800 GTO from Sapphire, PowerColor, etc. The 250W power supply probably is not sufficient for this (although if you don't have problems with the Radeon 9800, which also requires its own power connection, perhaps you can get by with it).

If you want to replace the power supply (PSU), you need to make sure the new PSU is pin-compatible with the Dell PSU and motherboard; Dell has been known to use proprietary PSUs in some PCs that do not have standard pin assignments, so it is possible that an after-market PSU could burn out the motherboard. You can use the pin diagram in the document you linked to verify that the replacement PSU has the same pin assignments as the Dell PSU—you are mostly concerned with the DC Power Connector P1. If possible, it would be a good idea to contact the PSU manufacturer's tech support to find out if their products are compatible with your particular Dell.

The other possible problem is that the PSU slot in Dell cases does not always accept a standard PSU; Dell's PSUs often have non-standard dimensions. Basically, Dell does not want you to upgrade your PC, they want you to buy a new one.

PC Power & Cooling makes Dell-compatible PSUs in addition to their high-quality standard PSUs:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/dell/

The site includes a Dell PSU selector:
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/selector/dell.htm

The PSU for the Dimension 8300 is the Silencer 410 Dell-2 @ US$119.
http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S41D2

If you're concerned about heat, you can add case fans if the case has any unused fan locations. In particular, a fan in front drawing air in from outside is recommended.

I'd have to say Hegelian is dead on with that info, but one small addition that may be of help:

If your Dell PSU is in fact the "Dell pinout" type (which most are), but is at least as large as a standard PSU, there's a converter available to allow you to use any standard ATX PSU you wish.

Shiney Clickey. (http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=dellconverter)

The page above shows what to look for on the motherboard to know whether or not this is the case, and from there all you really need to do is measure the physical size of the housing for the PSU in there now to see if a standard one will fit.

Just thought I'd toss it out there in case it's helpful, because honestly, no computer that does anything beyond surfing the web these days should really be using a 250w PSU -particularly with today's video cards.  They're hungry, and not feeding your system sufficient power can result in anything from it refusing to power your video card (thus running in a crippled VGA-only mode) to actually frying components because one draws too much power and the other then gets irregular wattage.

I always use Antec PSU's, which are very good at voltage and watt regulation, and I don't ever go below a 480 watt model.  Once you toss in a few hard drives, a cluster of fans, a couple optical drives, some USB devices, etc etc..  it never hurts to have "too much" power available, and again, my Antec's are very stable, so nothing ever gets any surges.  It can mean a lot in terms of system life and stability.

-Kitt

Thank you for your replies. On the page you linked to, the 8300 is stated as not needing a converter. If the European model is equivalent to the US one.
The Dell compatibles are expensive, specially if you add the $35 for delivery.
Just a graphic card would not be possible, would it?
Or a new central unit with just the cpu motherboard and graphic card.

If in fact you don't need a converter, then you don't need to replace your motherboard unless you decide you really want to do some upgrading.  Be advised though that doing so means you'll have to be very picky about a new board to be certain it will still use the RAM and processor you have now, so really unless you're looking to significantly upgrade things rather than just getting your video up to the best you can do in your current rig, you probably don't want to go swapping your MOBO out just yet.

Obviously, if you go with a near-full upgrade, you'll get much more noticable results, but it's also going to end up costing a lot more, because you'll be adding several components to the shopping cart.

Assuming you aren't really looking for a complete upgrade, Newegg has the Powercooler X800 GTO (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814131010) in stock for $155.63 (Including 3-day shipping).  I'm not sure about their policy about shipping to Europe however, but if it's not terribly attractive (or available) I'm sure you can find something comprable at either a local shop or somewhere on the web that specifically handles orders in your area.

Then I'd personally reccomend you see about ordering (or buying locally) an Antec TruePower II-480.  They're a great PSU, and will provide plenty of power to ensure your system (and new vid card) have plenty of juice.  I've seen them selling from about $75 to $100 US plus usually about $5 - $10 US shipping, so I would think you can find a vendor with comprable prices for that as well with a little digging.

I'd be happy to help you track some things down or field additional questions if you need.  Just ask.  ;)

-Kitt

Thank you. Right now the only x800 card I found was out of stock. And one customer advice stated it ran very hot.
Any other quality card?
 Someone on a board said that nvidia needed less power, my eyes are getting tired. Maybe the same as mine with 256 instead of 128? But they seem to be difficult to find too.

Heck, there's plenty of other quality cards out there.  These days however, anything that's not seriously outdated tech is going to run considerably hotter and require more power than the old generation stuff did.

For example, you can snag a GeForce 6800 AGP 256 Meg card (http://www.pricewatch.com/video_cards/713305-1.htm), though those retail at about $200 US give or take.

If you don't mind a bit of performance and feature loss, you can drop down to a 6600 GT series AGP for about half that price.  It's all a matter of how much performance you insist upon, and what you're willing to spend to get it really.

It would also seem that the X800 isnt' quite the top-end ATI avaliable in AGP either, which was news to me too.  Apparently, you can also get the X850 Pro (http://www.pricewatch.com/video_cards/262615-1.htm) in an AGP model as well.

I've not personally done the comparison research for some time, but I would suspect that to be a comparable or perhaps slightly superior card to the Geforce 6800.  It'd take me some digging to actually do the comparison work though, so consider that just a guess.

If at all possible (I'd have to look at your case to know), it would behoove you to add a cooling fan that moves some cool air in the vicinity of your video card regardless of your choice.  The cooler you can keep them, the better and the fans they come with aren't high-velocity enough to really be sufficient alone in many situations.

Even if you can't get a fan directly pointed at the thing, something that will pull some cool external air into the case and move it around even in the vicinity of your expansion slots will be some help.  There's a ton of options for doing this, and what you should go with depends mainly on your case and which options that makes available to you.

-Kitt

It's just not as good a value for money as the X800 GTO. On a performance-per-dollar basis, you can't beat the X800 GTO in the AGP format. In the U.S., the Sapphire model is $134 shipped from Newegg; and this is the model than can often be unlocked to 16 pipes.   ;D

There is also the X1600 Pro in AGP, but then you're saddled with DDR 2 with a 128-bit interface, so the X800 GTO is probably a better performer (for about $15 more). If you choose to go that route, don't bother with the 512 MB version, and make sure the model you get has the appropriate outputs—some models have one DVI (digital LCD) and one D-Sub (CRT) connector, whereas others have two DVI connectors so you need an adapter for a CRT, which could lead to image degradation (which may or may not be noticeable to you).

Aye.  Noted, and I fully admit that it's been a while since I did any research or comparisons of the myriad of cards out there, which I attempted to convey above, though it may not have been entirely clear.

With the request however for 'any other quality cards' tossed out there, I figured the others I mentioned were easily within that classification, even were they not necessarily the 'best bang' selection.

In short, don't take anything I already said as trying to refute Hegelian.  Without going through pages and pages of independant reviews and comparisons, I would say the info sounds good to me and I suspect spending the time to actually pursue said comparisons would likely merely confirm this.  :)

-Kitt

I didn't take it as a refutation. I just wanted to make it clear that I didn't intend to suggest the X800 GTO was the only high-performance AGP board out there, only that it is currently the best value (by a wide margin), especially if you can unlock the extra four pixel pipelines (http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=5215). The X850 Pro is probably about the same in real-world performance, but costs about $20 more in the U.S.

I do, however, stand by my assertion that at this price level the ATI boards are a better choice than nVidia-based boards for performance, image quality, and driver stability (I believe the problems a few folks are having with recent driver releases are machine-specific rather than a problem with the drivers). The X800 series have always outperformed their nVidia equivalents, the 6600 series, even matching some of the models in the more expensive 6800 series (of which the better-performing X850 series was the ATI equivalent). Also, nVidia has a long-standing and well-earned reputation for sub-par visual quality (always focusing on benchmark performance) and wonky drivers—I remember fondly one reviewer's description of the image produced by an nVidia board as "knife in the eye."   ;)

ATI has had driver issues in the past, but none that I know of in the last couple years. Similarly, during the period when ATI was focused on the budget and OEM market, the visual quaility of some of their boards was dreadful. Indeed, when it was time to upgrade from a Matrox G400 Max to a DirectX 9 board (by which time Matrox had abandoned the gamer market), it was with some trepidation that I bought a Radeon 9800 Pro. It turned out the "2D" image quality of the 9800 was the equal of the Matrox (the king of image quality in consumer-level graphics), and I haven't looked back since. I've had nothing but excellent results from the Radeon boards I've had, all of which are currently in service in our household.

I admit that my animus toward all things nVidia dates back to the acquisition of 3dfx and the way nVidia (mis)handled it. I've never liked their corporate attitude, nor that of the nVidia fanboys. As long as there is a reasonable alternative, no nVidia for me!   ;D

ok what I want to know is this....how come this update is for sept 8th  but was actually done on sept 7th?

I've got an x800xl at the moment, which is basically just a bloody great heatsink with some bits in the middle. It is a great card even without the added bonus of silent running. It handles TS2 and Oblivion pretty well flawlessly. It was certainly a nice move up from the FX5200 which I had before.

(http://www.tech-hounds.com/review10/Gigabyte.jpg)

???

Uh, I did it yesterday. Where I live, yesterday was Sept. 8.

your pos t had said sept 7th... thats what threw me..  :P

Has anyone bought a conroe yet? I have built one several times but just can't bring myself to push the confirm button until I hear how people with TS2 like it. Thanks.

I blew up my gaming computer and won't be able to replace it until the new year (yay tax return), so I'm upgrading my old desktop just enough to run the Sims 2.  I have about $100 for both a video card (agp) and memory (this piece of crap compaq has only 256 and can only handle 512).  I found RAM for about 35 bucks with a coupon at upgradememory.com (anyone ever buy from them?) so I have about 40 to 80 dollars for an agp video card. I'm thinking about a GeForce fx5700 or 6200, or a Radeon 9600. At EA support, the 6200 isn't listed as compatible with the game, but I've heard a few people say they play with it. My PSU is only 250 watts, so I think the GeForce 6600 or 6800 are too much, right? Does the 6600 need it's own power supply?  I only have a GeForce 2 on this pitiful box, so anything would be better at this point. Opinions?

Personally, I'd go for the 9600. I have the same card on my rig (albeit the Pro version with 256MB of RAM) and the game is running decently. Since it's only a temporary solution, I'd go for it. Plus, it's not as energy demanding as the NVidia cards, so I think your 250W power supply should handle it (barely, truth be told, especially if it's a no-name).

Here I am again. I found a x800 gto on Ebay, as there were none to be had in stores.
Assuming I get it and it works, I need a power supply. One that is standard, but without a start/stop button as there is no place for it in the case, sturdy, reliable, efficient and silent. Seasonic is very popular in France, but is rather expensive.
What could you suggest? I'd go for 450w at least. And the ones I saw mentionned pciexpress connectors, but not agp. Should I go looking for outdated power supplies? Here is my current one again: http://support.euro.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim8300/sm/techov.htm#1102452

I have a 6200, and will be replacing it as soon as I can justify the expense.  There are a lot of colorful glitches in the game that never appear at any other time.  Changing to 78.01 drivers helps slightly.

I found a 6600 for about 90 bucks, if I can find one a little cheaper (maybe refurbished), I'll probably go with that.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure the power supply is no name; it's what came in the box--Compaq Presario 5410us!!  With a 1.3 GHz processor and a 6600, do you think I'll get the cinematics?

Edit: DrBeast, I just re-read your post and saw you wrote 9600, not 6600!  Great, I can get a 9600pro for 20 or 30 bucks cheaper than a 6600!  Yay, I will be simming a lot sooner! What about the cinematics?

ATX motherboards (virtually everything out there these days) switch on the power supplies these days, so you don't really need a switch on the PSU, although it won't hurt. The X800 GTOs that I have seen use a regular Molex power plug like the one that connects to an IDE/ATA hard drive.

OK, having a 1.3GHz processor DEFINITELY tips the scale all the way towards the Radeon 9600! Having a 6600 on such an anemic (with regards to processor power) system is a waste of graphics processor power (and money!). Cinematics work just fine with the Radeon card, but I don't know if your processor is up to it.

Probably not, sorry to say. We had a machine with a 1.7 GHz Celeron and no cinematics until we upgraded to a 2.8 GHz P4.

Frankly, with that processor, it's probably not worth the money to buy a new graphics board for TS2. The main limiter of TS2 performance is the CPU; it would make more sense to forgo the graphics board and save up for a new PC, or at least attempt to find a faster CPU to replace that 1.3 GHz part. Sorry.   :(

What causes the game to run so slow sometimes [mostly on big lots]? Is it inadequate processor, video card, or ram? My processor's a 2.6ghz, and I have 512 of ram... Can't remember what video card I have, I'll hafta fill that in later, but I bought the card because it was on the list on the Maxis site. In fact, I built this computer TO PLAY SIMS. haha. I was a month behind everyone else in playtime, but I didn't care, it was worth it. But I can't play a lot bigger than 3x2 without SIGNIFICANT slowdown.  [sorry if this doesn't belong here, but it IS a hardware thread and this is a hardware question]

I'd love to hear any feedback.

I've been thinking of upgrading the ATI Radeon X300SE (128MB PCI Express x16)  that came with my Dell 8400 (Pentium 4, 3.2GHz and 2GB SDRAM).

ATI has a trade up program and credits at least $50 if you order direct and send your old card to them, so I want to stick with them. 

The current card is sufficient, but does lag a bit and is bottom line.

The power supply on my system is rated 350W.

Anyone out there using and liking one of the higher end Radeon cards enough to suggest it?

Processor - mostly
Graphics board - somewhat, but mostly this affects the level of detail you can have. But turning down the detail settings can improve game performance.
RAM - a bit; this mostly affects loading times for textures and the like—more textures (and, presumably, character data) can be stored in RAM so less swapping to disk is necessary (so the game doesn't need to wait for the data). I find that with 1 GB or more of RAM, doing a couple turns around the lot from a somewhat zoomed-out position (a couple times for each level) will load most of the needed textures into RAM, reducing lag (although not completely).


So-so, at this point in time. My CPU is a 2.8 GHz P4,and lots with a lot of CC or with many sims can be pretty slow. Turning down certain video settings can speed this up a bit (edge smoothing, reflections, and whether you can see neighboring lots, in particular), but you can only achieve so much this way. Adding RAM can help also by reducing disk access as you move around a lot, and the game can easily consume more than 1.5 GB if you go clothes shopping and have a lot of custom clothes. To get the most out of additional RAM, you need to tweak your paging file settings to reduce the size of the paging file to force Windows to use all the physical RAM you have, and, ideally, turn off executive paging either by editing the registry or using a memory-tweaking tool like Cacheman XP. But really, the CPU is the main factor, and whether you have anything running in the background (I always disable my anti-virus before starting the game).


The list of supported graphics boards is pretty much a list of boards available when the game was finalized, and earlier. More recent boards aren't listed. The list of supported boards is pretty much a list of what the minimum is to play the game.

 
The X300SE was a budget OEM part right from the beginning. Moving to an X800 GTO or X850 XT would be a huge improvement. There are faster boards out there for PCI-E in the X1900 line, but at the moment the X850 XT should match or better the performance of any of the X1600 boards—and it costs less than many X800 GTO boards.   ;D


Be sure to do some price shopping. ATI will charge you full MSRP for the new board, which you may be able to get for less from a reputable online retailer—plus, you would still have the X300 as a backup. The Sapphire Radeon X850 XT is $114 from Newegg, and there's currently a $20 mail-in rebate. You would need to check your PC to make sure there is a free slot next to the PCI-E 16x slot though, because the fan on this exhausts out the back of the case.

For about the same price you can get a Radeon X1600 XT, but these only have 12 pixel pipelines instead of the X850 XT's 16 pipes. To beat the X850 XT you would need to go the 256 MB version of the X1800 XT which will run you in excess of US$200; it also requires a free slot for its cooling aparatus. 


Depending on its quality,this could be sufficient for now if you have only one hard drive and one optical drive. Upgrading Dell PSUs can be dicey, because they and their associated motherboards sometimes use non-standard pin assignments for the motherboard power connection; and standard PSUs sometimes will not fit Dell's proprietary cases. PC Power & Cooling makes top-quality PSUs for Dell PCs.


I definitely recommend the X800 GT and X800 GTO for those who can't budget an X1900-series board. Mine are both AGP models; for PCI-E I recommend the X850 XT, which should be just like the X800 GTO only faster.   :)

Please tell me what you think of this as I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to all this technical crap. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

  XPS 410  Qty     1   
  Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6700 (2.66GHz, 1066 FSB), Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD Unit Price     
 

XPS 410 Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6700 (2.66GHz, 1066 FSB)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD
Memory 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz- 2DIMMs

Monitor 19 inch E196FP Analog Flat Panel
Video Card 256MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GS
Hard Drive DataSafe 250GB (Includes main hard drive plus a hidden reserve hard drive)
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader and 3.5 in Floppy Drive

CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition

Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
Physics Accelerator AGEIA® PhysX® physics accelerator

 
 

I have the same system, and I replaced the X300 with a X700 Pro about 6 months ago, and it works fine -- I can play with all settings high with little or no lag on all but the biggest and/or most populated lots.  The X700's are hard to find these days, but I believe the 8400 can drive a X1300 with no problem. If you can find an X800/850, that should give you a good enough boost for the game (which I see Hegelian has already told you :) ).

Right now the game freezes for a minute or two during the change clothes spin if I have more than 2 sims on a lot; this is presumably processor slowness, right?  I am getting a new video card and some RAM just to up the graphics settings from low so I can enjoy the game a little more for the next few months, until I get a new computer.  After that, I'll probably give the new card to my little sister.  That's why I'm looking in the $50 range; I only need it for about 4 months.  Then I'm going to build my own system, or at least give it a shot!  I'll definately be checking out this thread again then!  So the 9600 it is!  Thanks for all the help. :)

Typically, I'd say most of those little pauses would be more likely your memory (and possibly your hard drive) than anything.  When you do something and the game just freezes for a moment, that usually means it's loading something.  In this case, the graphics for your new outfit. 

Certainly a faster processor won't hurt, but with the information I have to go on at this point, I'd tend to think that more memory would be a better way to go, and if you've got a really old and slow hard drive, that again could be a big part of it since everything you do in windows will usually make use of cache memory that it writes/reads on the drive -particularly if you've got low system RAM to begin with.

-Kitt

If you can afford it, it's certainly enough and more to play TS2 with all settings maxed. The AGEIA physics accelerator is a waste of money unless you plan to be buying the newest first-person shooters coming out in the next couple years (and even then it may not be worth it); it will do precisely zero for your TS2 game. Four Gigs of RAM is also pretty much a waste—2 GB is plenty. Ditch the AGEIA and the extra 2 GB of RAM and get a faster CPU instead. And get XP Pro instead of Media Center if you can.  ;D

Okay, I've looked at the XPS 410 on Dell's Web site. I would spec the Productivity model rather than the media model. The E6700 is the fastest Core 2 CPU you can get with this machine, so that's settled. Get the 667 MHz RAM rather than the 533 MHz, 2 GB. No AGEIA accelerator. The hard drive is your choice, but the 500 GB SATA 3 drive is probably faster than whatever they use for the DataSafe setup. Personally, I'd skip DataSafe and just get a second hard drive from Newegg and store my data on that (plus you can put your main paging file there, improving overall Windows performance). If you want easy file backup, get one of those 120 GB external USB hard drives that comes with back-up software. And XP Pro.

Can't tell you anything about the monitor, other than to run it at its native resolution (probably 1280 x 1024) even though stuff on the screen will look too small until you get accustomed to it. If you're not willing to do that, skip the monitor and try to find a decent CRT from an online-retailer—that way you can run at any resolution you like, and games look better on CRTs anyway. Something like the NEC FE992 (19-inch) or AS120 (21-inch), ViewSonic G225fb (21-inch), or Samsung 1100MB (21-inch).

That's exactly the kind of information I needed. Thanks so much for your help.

Hi, its me again! lol   So my hard drive died, got a new one and decided to upgrade my video card.  Got everything reinstalled, Sims2 right up to the Glamour pack, but not including FFS.

Went into the game, everything is sloooooww motion!! Help!!  I'm sure I must have to tweak something in the ATI control centre, or something.  Ran the "Can you run this game" and here are the results . . .


I did update the driver for the video card.  Also, should I change the color quality from 16 bits to 32 bits?  You're help will be greatly appreciated!! :D

Don't "get" Windoze. It is not worth paying money for. You already have it anyway, so just go with "no OS". You're going to have to nuke and reinstall to cleanse the computer of factory-installed spyware anyway.

I honest-to-god saw over a dozen icons in the system tray of some poor bugger's brand new laptop. No wonder the machines get faster and faster, they're carrying a huge load of resource hungry crap they try to hide in the background. Windoze included, with it's payload of services - including the ones that allow people to pop in and run your PC.

And you wonder why I say you should nuke any preinstalled system with your own install-overs.

twistingsims: do you notice any slowdown or such in any other game and/or application or is you problem strictly Sims-related?

BTW, maybe you should post this on a thread of its own, in the "Oops! You Broke It!" section.

I blame the computer mfgs for that. When I purchased my last Dell I tried to have some say in what would be installed - no go.

After I set up the system, I spent an hour dumping the crap, such as AOL (the biggest bugger of them all), Earthlink, and other garbage. 

My next system will be custom built.

Yes, you should set the graphics to 32-bit color. You can also try reducing the various settings in the game's graphics controls. Beyond that, the Athlon XP 1700+ is pretty slow by current standards. Those have been off the market for some time, so finding an upgrade will be difficult. If it is a Socket A CPU, you may be able to use one of the current Socket A Semprons, but you will need to check with the motherboard manufacturer to find out whether the board will support the "Thoroughbred" Semprons. As of June 2002, there was an Athlon XP 1700+ as part of the Thoroughbred line (earlier models used the "Palomino" core), so it is possible your motherboard will support CPUs with the Thoroughbred core. If you can use one of these Semprons, the 2800+ is $75 at Newegg.

Sorry about posting in the wrong place, but I wanted to know if this graphic card is too much for my processor and if I get a lower end graphic card, would that solve the problem.

Sims2 seems to be the only game that is doing the slow motion thing, its not lagging or choppy, just all slow motion! I've tried changing all the settings in the game, but makes no difference.  Also tried changing settings in the ATI control centre, but that hasn't changed the slow motion of the game.

Well, no. The graphics processor will just wait for the CPU to feed it data. Have you checked to see if the CPU is running at its proper speed? You can use cpu-z to see the CPU speed--do a Google search.  :)

OTOH, it may be possible that your power supply isn't adequate for the X1600, although this does not appear to be a demanding board compared to what is currently available. I don't know whether insufficient power to the graphics board would slow down the game, though.

I have the same card (poor aged AGP :() with 256MB and tend to get choppy graphics because of driver conflicts.
The resolution usually involves uninstalling, rebooting, installing, rebooting, checking, uninstalling, rebooting - you get the picture. :)

Well I don't think its the graphic card.  I uninstalled the new one, and reinstalled the old one and after uninstalling the whole game and reinstalling just the Sims2, the slow motion is still happening.

I have installed a couple other games and there is no slow motion going on with those ones.  The are not as graphic intensive of course, but still they worked fine.

I also have Sims Online installed and I was able to play that game with no problems.  I just wonder if it has anything to do with me installing Windows XP Pro as my operating system?  I did it myself, partitioned the hard drives myself and such, but I didn't see any glitches along the way.  I just don't know what else to try.   ???

I did the CPU-z program and the results are as follows:

Core Speed  . . . . . . . . .1460.5 MHz
Mulitplier  . . . . . . . . . . . x11.0
Bus Speed . . . . . . . . . . 132.8 MHz
Rated FSB  . . . . . . . . . . 265.5 MHz
L1 Data . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 KB
L1 Code  . . . . . . . . . . . 64 KB
Level 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 256 KB

Do you have any other games that can be considered equal or greater graphic intensity compared to The Sims 2?
If you can identify the problem is specifically with the game - a saved games backup and clean re-install is a reasonable solution.

There used to be a site I used called PC Pitstop which allows performance tests, diagnosis and reports.
I'm not sure to advocate it as my experience was a few years back and the site has changed since.

Thank you Weaver,  :)

I did do a complete uninstall of all my sims2 games, and a clean reinstall of just the core game, but no difference, still the slow motion.

I do have Sims1 games, but I don't know if you would consider that high graphics or not?

Did you store/move your saved games (My Documents/EA Games/The Sims2) and load a fresh game after the reinstall?
There could be a misplaced setting in a configuration file causing the motion problems.

I would consider Sims 1 a less demanding game (based on the minimum/required specifications and earlier release date).
If this is related to a hardware issue, it is odd that it occurs with solely The Sims 2 unless the game is too demanding on resources.

Yup, its a fresh game, no downloads, no saved games at all.  I just can't believe this is happening. If it was the graphics card, it should have played the game normally when I reinstalled my old graphic card, but it didn't, the exact same slow motion thing is still happening.  I have experienced lag before in my games, as well as choppy play, especially as the neighborhoods grew, but this is in no way the same thing, just all slow motion, even with all settings set to the lowest.

Hmm, is it possible something you installed put the wrong version of DirectX in?  Maybe backed it down to 8 instead of 9c? 

If I am not mistaken, first Sims game was not a 3D game at all, so it wouldn't be any challenge for the X1600. It probably wasn't a challenge for the Althon XP, either.You don't say what your previous graphics board was, but since you've done a clean install of the OS, that wouldn't matter (if you had just swapped boards and the old one was based on an nVidia GPU, there could be a conflict with remaining bits of the nVidia driver set).

My feeling is that the CPU is the problem, since TS2 performance depends primarily on CPU power. Also, have you installed the drivers for your motherboard chipset? If you are using the generic drivers included with WinXP, that might possibly be the source of the problem (although I'm not taking bets).

Since you have an Athlon CPU, you probably have a VIA chipset (although there are others—cpu-z can tell you this). You can download unified driver packs ("Hyperion") for VIA chipsets from VIA's Web site. The driver pack should include an AGP driver for the motherboard (but of course you install the entire driver set for your chipset).

I think there was a cheat for controlling motion speed...

*digs into his archive*

Got it!
Properly called Slowmotion, heh.
Here's a test: when you're in a lot, press Control+Shift+C to bring up the game console, then type "Slowmotion 0" without the quotes, then press Enter. If motion returns to normal, you probably have a hack or maybe a userstartup.cheat file that somehow snuck in and refused to go when you did the spring cleaning (uninstall, reinstall). Quite a long shot, but you've stated more than once that it's not the graphics that are stuttering, it's

I have provided the below from my DxDiag Module:

------------------
System Information
------------------
Time of this report: 9/19/2006, 15:40:52
       Machine name: LAURA-ZMVSCO80S
   Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) (2600.xpclient.010817-1148)
           Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO., LTD
       System Model: MS-6330
               BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v6.00PG
          Processor: AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1700+, ~1.5GHz
             Memory: 640MB RAM
          Page File: 150MB used, 1412MB available
        Windows Dir: C:\WINDOWS
    DirectX Version: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
     DxDiag Version: 5.03.0001.0904 32bit Unicode

------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
  DirectX Files Tab: No problems found.
      Display Tab 1: No problems found.
        Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
          Music Tab: No problems found.
          Input Tab: No problems found.
        Network Tab: No problems found.

--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D:    0/4 (n/a)
DirectDraw:  0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (n/a)
DirectPlay:  0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow:  0/6 (retail)

---------------
Display Devices
---------------
        Card name: Radeon X1600 Series
     Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
        Chip type: Radeon X1600 Series AGP (0x71C2)
         DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
       Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_71C2&SUBSYS_0850174B&REV_00
   Display Memory: 512.0 MB
     Current Mode: 1024 x 768 (32 bit) (75Hz)
          Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
  Monitor Max Res: 1600,1200
      Driver Name: ati2dvag.dll
   Driver Version: 6.14.0010.6631 (English)
      DDI Version: 9 (or higher)
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
 Driver Date/Size: 8/2/2006 19:08:06, 258048 bytes
      WHQL Logo'd: Yes
  WHQL Date Stamp: n/a
              VDD: n/a
         Mini VDD: ati2mtag.sys
    Mini VDD Date: 8/2/2006 19:07:51, 1681920 bytes
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-3282-11CF-1C6D-5A28A1C2CB35}
        Vendor ID: 0x1002
        Device ID: 0x71C2
        SubSys ID: 0x0850174B
      Revision ID: 0x0000
      Revision ID: 0x0000
      Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_C ModeMPEG2_D ModeWMV8_B ModeWMV8_A ModeWMV9_B ModeWMV9_A
 Deinterlace Caps: {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                   {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
                   {3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                   {552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                   {6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
                   {335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e)

Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX

VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch
         Registry: OK
     DDraw Status: Enabled
       D3D Status: Enabled
       AGP Status: Enabled
DDraw Test Result: Not run
 D3D7 Test Result: Not run
 D3D8 Test Result: Not run
 D3D9 Test Result: Not run  (PS I have run these tests, all look good)

-------------
Sound Devices
-------------
            Description: VIA Audio (WAVE)
 Default Sound Playback: Yes
 Default Voice Playback: Yes
            Hardware ID: PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_3058&SUBSYS_33001462&REV_50
        Manufacturer ID: 1
             Product ID: 100
                   Type: WDM
            Driver Name: ac97via.sys
         Driver Version: 5.10.0000.3521 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
            WHQL Logo'd: Yes
          Date and Size: 8/17/2001 09:20:16, 35200 bytes
            Other Files:
        Driver Provider: Microsoft
         HW Accel Level: Full
              Cap Flags: 0xF5F
    Min/Max Sample Rate: 44100, 48000
Static/Strm HW Mix Bufs: 1, 0
 Static/Strm HW 3D Bufs: 0, 0
              HW Memory: 0
       Voice Management: No
 EAX(tm) 2.0 Listen/Src: No, No
   I3DL2(tm) Listen/Src: No, No
Sensaura(tm) ZoomFX(tm): No
               Registry: OK
      Sound Test Result: Not run

---------------------
Sound Capture Devices
---------------------
            Description: VIA Audio (WAVE)
  Default Sound Capture: Yes
  Default Voice Capture: Yes
            Driver Name: ac97via.sys
         Driver Version: 5.10.0000.3521 (English)
      Driver Attributes: Final Retail
          Date and Size: 8/17/2001 09:20:16, 35200 bytes
              Cap Flags: 0x41
           Format Flags: 0xFFF

-----------
USB Devices
-----------
+ USB Root Hub
| Vendor/Product ID: 0x1106, 0x3038
| Matching Device ID: usb\root_hub
| Service: usbhub
| Driver: usbhub.sys, 8/23/2001 13:00:00, 50688 bytes
| Driver: usbd.sys, 8/23/2001 13:00:00, 4736 bytes

----------------
Gameport Devices
----------------
+ VIA AC'97 Audio Controller (WDM)
| Location: PCI bus 0, device 7, function 5
| Matching Device ID: pci\ven_1106&dev_3058
| Service: VIAudio
| Driver: ac97via.sys, 8/17/2001 09:20:16, 35200 bytes
| Driver: drmk.sys, 8/17/2001 11:01:20, 57344 bytes
| Driver: portcls.sys, 8/17/2001 19:24:38, 135040 bytes
| Driver: stream.sys, 7/9/2004 04:27:28, 48512 bytes
| Driver: wdmaud.drv, 8/23/2001 13:00:00, 22016 bytes
| Driver: ksuser.dll, 12/12/2002 00:14:32, 4096 bytes
|
+-+ Standard Game Port
| | Matching Device ID: *pnpb02f
| | Service: gameenum
| | Driver: gameenum.sys, 8/17/2001 11:02:32, 9728 bytes



I hope you guys know, I really do appreciate all your help here. :D

jsalemi, I do have DirectX 9.0c, I'm  not sure if it needs updating?

Dr. Beast, I tried your test with the "Slow Motion 0" in the cheat window, but didn't make any difference.

Hegelian, I have downloaded and installed unified driver packs ("Hyperion") for VIA chipsets from VIA's Web site. Still the slow motion sims.

Its just so weird, there's got to be something I'm missing.  The loading screen loads normally, not in slow motion, the loading video plays better than ever, the graphics all look great, but as soon as I click on a neighborhood screen, Pleasantville, Verona, etc, the neighborhood drift is in slow motion and in any lot, the sims refuse to play at a normal speed!!   ???

Is there anything in debug mode that could give me a clue?

When you uninstalled, did you do a manual uninstall to make sure everything actually got removed properly?

I consider Age of Empires III to be a comparable game to TS2- it sucks up every bit of processing power you can give it and maxes out the video card to make it all look pretty.  You can  download a demo  (http://www.agecommunity.com/all_downloads.aspx) if you need to test if its a Sims problem or computer problem.

No, that's the latest version.

Thank you jsalemi, I thought it might be  :D


Yup, I had to add a new harddrive and totally format the drive with WindowsXP, so there was nothing there when I installed the Sims2 game.


thank you, I did download this demo and played it, works great!!  ::)

So now what?  I have sent an email to EA with all these details as well, just in case they have any other suggestions.

Always an adventure in my life!!  ???

My Dell 8400 documentation states that if adding a graphics card that runs at 75W or more, a card fan must be installed.  I ordered one from Dell on Sunday.  My order arrived today but it contained a DVI/VGA adapter(!).  That has just been resolved with a credit to my account.

I'd rather not deal with Dell's apparently outsourced sales staff again and wonder if anyone can suggest a good card fan that can be added, which won't sound like a 747 taking off in my house.

And yes, I've upgraded my power supply by ordering a new one from PC Power & Cooling (waiting on that as well as the new card), so I'll have a power source for the card fan.

I replaced my stock fan on the card with a Zalman Ultra Quiet VGA Cooler. The loudest part on my computer is the hard drive and my card doesn't overheat.  :)

Yes, but you said after it happened, you uninstalled and reinstalled just TS2.  Maybe something got screwed up in the first install, and it didn't uninstall properly so it's still screwed up.  I know I've seen this problem before, but the damn search on the BBS is useless.  Did you patch the game when you reinstalled?

Appreciate the info, katenigma.  My documentation seems to suggest an additional fan is needed: "NOTICE: PCI Express graphics card that run higher than 75 W require an additional cooling fan.  Otherwise, your card could overheat and damage your computer."

All the PCIe cards I looked at had their own fans, plus the Dell installation instructions talk about mounting it with extra brackets somewhere inside the case.  Haven't looked yet to see where that may be.

The Zalman is supposed to keep the card cooler than the stock fan- it takes up a lot more room and it comes with a lot more heatspreaders for the RAM than the one ATI provided.  I never have any problems with heat on this machine, but I do have a case that's very efficient and my lovely OCZ power supply that sucks air from the case and spits it out the back, which lowered my system temperature by 5ºC all on its own.

If you have to mount an actual fan to the case, 120 mm fans are quieter and move more air than 80 mm ones.  You can also go to websites that specialize in silent PC's, to get recommendations on quiet fans or order rubber washers to hold down the rattling.

Okay, so I've uninstalled the game again and followed these directions: http://forums.modthesims2.com/article.php?t=139059 (http://forums.modthesims2.com/article.php?t=139059) for a complete uninstalled.  I reinstalled just the original game plus the first patch for Sims2, and although I was prayin' hard this might work, unfortunately the sims still are in slow mode!  :'(

So I took a video capture just to show how this is looking in my game.  Like I said everything else is loading and playing fine, until you get to the neighborhood's screen, the panning is really slow.  Then I pick any lot, which I think is loading fine, and as soon as I unpause for play, slow motion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOz2liSh57E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOz2liSh57E)

Okay this is interesting, the video shows no slow motion!!  ???  that must be a clue to what's goin' on, I hope! I think I will play around with the video settings a bit, to see what happens.

I played around some more, and its still slower in game, but the video does seem to speed it up a little bit, this one's a little bigger (and I'm changing settings of video as I'm recording, so exuse the stops and starts):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKcz1NeCuw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iKcz1NeCuw)

Here's a tip: Don't name your computer after you, and don't post its name on the Internet when you post Dxdiag reports. Always censor the names.

Didn't even know it was there, oh well!  ::)  Any suggestions for my dilemma?  ???

What do you mean by "slow motions"? Also, your computer doesn't have enough RAMs.

I've had the same RAM as I had b4 I had to install the new harddrive and format.  I even put my old video Card Radeon 9600 SE, back in and reinstalled the software, but the graphics did not behave normally even then.

By slow motion, I mean the sims are playing in slow motion, like if it was a video playing in slow motion.  They walk, talk, interact, move their hands, everything is slow motion.

Did you watch the videos, I posted above?  The first one doesn't really show it as well as the second one does, and even those videos are not showing it as slow as it is when I'm playing it.

If you have anything else I can try, other than what others have suggested, as I tried them all and no difference, I would be sooo grateful!!

Sorry if you posted this previously, twistingsims, but did you download the updated driver on that new 1900 card from the ATI site and  remove the old driver before you installed the new card?

https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/674/9206/0/www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_69_release_notes.html

The driver number you listed is 6.14.0010.6631, which is lower than the Catalyst release referenced above. 

Do you have .NET Framework installed?

I read info that Driver Cleaner can be helpful in removing old drivers but haven't used it:  http://www.drivercleaner.net/

Just fishing around trying to find an answer....

thank you so much ZiggyDoodle, I will try these things, I really do appreciate your help!  :)


edit:  I do have .Net Framework 1.1 installed.  I used the drivercleaner, and cabcleaner.  Reinstalled ATI orignial driver.  The link you posted goes to unauthorized page.  However I did find the right page, and downloaded it.

I'll report further findings.

 :o  Well I'll be hornswoggled, that actually worked, don't know if it was the cleaning of the drivers, or that latest driver update, which for some reason I couldn't find before, only the 6.8, but so far so good, the sims are back to normal, well as normal as sims can be, lol.

Thank you everyone for your help!!  ;D  I know its pretty pathetic to be so addicted to this stuff but I am addicted and don't mind admitting it!  :D

The driver is new, released Wednesday. So you didn't just miss it, but it may have been a driver conflict issue. I haven't updated in months, and didn't have the problem. Somewhere on my machine, I have ATI's own driver uninstaller, as its near impossible to find on their site, but they put it with the driver downloads one month, to push it.

Well, I just got my memory and my 9600 pro in the mail today.  ;D
I'm going to put in the memory first and then deal with the video card.  I had to turn off my integrated video in BIOS to work the old card, and I would rather not mess with that again, but I need to be able to use the display when installing the new card.  The old card is an Nvidia geforce 2  :o and the new one is ATI, will there be some kind of driver conflict?  Can I just install the new drivers, open up the box, rip out the old card and put in the shiney new one?  Or do I need to do somethin' special?
Thanks for your help!

You need to purge your PC of all vestiges of the nVidia drivers before installing the new board.The nVidia driver uninstall utility may or may not accomplish this, so you may want to try Driver Cleaner (do a Google search) after doing the uninstall from Add/Remove Programs. Once those drivers are gone, shut down and switch boards. Boot the PC and cancel out the new hardware wizard when it attempts to install drivers for the ATI board (you may need to do this more than once). Then run the ATI driver setup program from the CD, or the downloaded drivers if you choose to use those.

So, if I wait to install ati drivers 'til after the baord is in and my integrated graphics are off in BIOS, will my screen actually work?  I mean, isn't there nothing there? ???
Sorry to sound silly, but the simplest of hardware tasks, although I theoretically know how to handle them, often turn into huge complicated piles of shit for me!!!  Just trying to evade any computer 'splosions!

Windows will use a default generic driver to give you something on the screen.  :)

Cool, Thanks!  Now I just have to remember to ask my Mom to come babysit while I install.  Little one year old hands do not help the innards of computers.  And she screams bloody murder when I type (like now)!  The act itself breaks her little heart. :'(

Ha ha, maybe she thinks you are hurting the keys...

She does the same thing when I stand at the sink (to wash dishes or brush my teeth, whatever)!  It is just weird, like somehow these two acts are me completely ignoring her.  I can do anything else, like stand at the stove to cook, or sit at the computer and use the mouse; just those two specific acts kill her!! ::)

UPDATE:  I got my memory and video card installed, finally!  I'm downloading the latest drivers as we speak, then off to test the Sims!! Yay!  ;D

By the way, my current RAM is now 512MB, any broad suggestions for the size of my paging file?  I haven't done any testing yet.

The key to dealing with screaming babies is to give them something to scream about. Once they realize that their screaming only brings them more pain, they'll stop doing it.

Nah, doesn't work, they don't react logically, they just panic and scream more.

hehe bit like sims really...

Sure it does. It gives them something to be worth screaming about. Screaming is much less annoying when you're the one causing the screaming. Because if they're going to scream anyway, why not give them something worth screaming over?

You did originally say they'd stop screaming - I assure you, they won't.  ;D

You're a mean mean man, J.M. Pescado.  :P  The secret to dealing with babies is being sneaky, not violent.  Really, ninja skills are more important than brawn.  And also shiney things help a lot.  The art of distraction is essential.  Thus, with your gleaming bald head and fuzzy beard, Jane would find you ultimately more entertaining just sitting there with a scowl than when wielding a whip, or whatever it is you wield.  She would also like very much to bite your cat.

Now that my card and memory are in, the Sims is beautiful!  It is truly amazing how fast everything is now.  The Neighborhood screen, in particular, is whiplash inducing.  I hit the arrows and whoosh, zoom, there it all was.  And in the house there is no more freezing, even with everything on high, even smoothing. I never could adjust smoothing before.  And there is no pause when changing floors, which before I hadn't even really noticed.  Thanks Hegelian, Dr. Beast, KittKitt and everyone else for all your help! :D

You do know you're only feeding his anti-ego, hmm?  It's something like anti-matter, only it really could consume the whole universe if it ever grew large and unstable enough.  ;)

And YW.  Glad everything went smoothly and TS2 is running in kind.  :D

-Kitt

*Computer Illiterate Alert*

We were going to wait until Vista came out, but it looks like our video card on our Del lDimension 4600 is dying. Rather than just replace that, we decided to buy the new machine now. Problem is, we've had this one since 2000 and I am way out of the loop for what's needed. We upgraded the Dell to 2 Gig RAM, but we're running on an old Sound Blaster 5.1 Live Audio card and an NVidia GEForce FX 5200. Ancient, huh? I need to come out of the stone age, but I don't know where to start. I read the previous posts, but most of it is completely over my head (see first line above).

Obviously, I want my machine to play the Sims. We also picked up Oblivion. This antiquated machine has never been able to run it, so we definitely want a new machine to do so!

I want to stay away from Dell and Gateway if at all possible. Problem is, I'm not sure what manufacturers are out there that are good. I thought maybe HP? We lack the know-how to put a machine together on our own, so we need to rely on a manufacturer. Is there a place that will build a machine for you if I ordered a motherboard and everything else separately? Did I even say that right?

Thanks in advance.

We like HP here, for pre-fab machines. They are also less expensive than Dell for anything other than your absolutely basic machine, which you don't want anyway.  You can either order on-line or buy from Circuit City, Best Buy, etc.  Circuit City always has some good deals going on HP's.

Since you can't choose things like your motherboard or case on a computer like that, your 3 main concerns need to be Processor, RAM, and Video Card. Especially since all new machines come with 100+ GB Hard Drives. 

For a processor, I prefer a dual core, that means either an Intel Core 2 Duo or an AMD X2. I like AMD's, but it's not like Intel processors are bad, it's just personal preference.  If you can only afford a single core, just remember to avoid an AMD Sempron or an Intel Celeron processor like the plague.  ;D

For RAM, well you already know that at least 2 GB is best. LOL 

For video cards, most pre-fab machines come with integrated ones but the new machines usually have PCI-E slots. What I would do is get one with the fastest processor and most RAM I could find, never mind about the stock card, and then replace it with an ATI Radeon X1-something. Although, if you order from HP.Com, you can customize the d4650e to include an X1600 XT. I only suggest ATI over Nvidia because there have been soooooo many problems with TS2 and Nvidia drivers over the last year.  Given a fresh choice, save yourself headaches and go with ATI.


If you want to have one built, it's easy enough to have done. CompUsa, for instance, will build it for free if you buy all the parts from them.  Monarchcomputers.com charges a flat fee for it, which isn't overly expensive. If you go that route, I highly suggest paying the extra money for a Raptor 10,000 RPM Hard Drive. They are small, but you can always add a huge regular 7200 one for cheap, for storing data. The faster hard drive has made a world of difference in how quickly my game loads or Sims change clothes or buy clothes, change appearances, etc.  Especially with my zillion downloads.  If you go that route, I'd also suggest going to someplace like CompUsa, where you can talk to live people who can help you make the decisions. The only extra thing you'd need to insist on is at least a 450w power supply. I use the 520w OCZ power supply, and the design on it alone has lowered my system temperature by 10ºC.  OCZ also makes the least expensive RAM AND the RAM with the lowest latencies (so it reacts faster, making for a smoother gameplay) and their customer service is spectacular, so don't think you have to stick with Crucial or someone else expensive just to get RAM you can rely on.

Yes, HP/Compaq is a reliable manufacturer, and competitively priced at the moment. You can customize a PC on their Web site or buy a pre-configured system from a place like Newegg. Or you could try one of the boutique builders—Falcon Northwest has some interesting options.

Buying components at retail and then paying someone to assemble the machine will not be cost-effective. Few of the parts in your current machine would be useable if you buy a new motherboard. However, there are independent local PC builders in many towns, and since they use the same standard parts you would buy yourself from Newegg, they aren't really a risk, although they might not be able to match the prices of a big operation like HP which buys components in enormous quantities at a substantial discount.


To date, the new Core 2 CPUs are outperforming by a wide margin anything from AMD in any given price category. This may change over the next 12 months, but for now Intel is once again the big dog in town.

I'm still brand loyal. Easy to be, I suppose, when I'm not personally in the market for a processor, except maybe to replace my socket 939 3800 with the 4800 while I can find one  ;)  AMD was good to me for too many years to abandom them as soon as Intel finally figures out how to produce a fast processor at a reasonable price.  :D

Heh, if you're this surprised (and pleased) with the results of this (mediocre, truth be told) upgrade, wait till you get to play the game on your new rig!  ;)

From what I've been reading, the ATI boards have a clear advantage over equivalent nVidia boards in Oblivion. Plus, the X1000-series boards can simultaneously perform both high dynamic-range lighting and anti-aliasing, whereas with nVidia it's one or the other. nVidia is not necessarily the technology leader at this point in time.


I tend not to be. Although to date I have had almost all Intel CPUs (there was that Cyrix many years ago, and the Motorola in the Franklin Ace), but that was based on performance, not only of the CPU itself but also of the supporting chipset—Intel chipsets (and drivers) are always rock-solid, and, of course, engineered for their CPUs, while the third-party chipsets for AMD CPUs have not always been reliable. Nonetheless, if I had had the money to build a new PC six months ago, I would have chosen an Athlon 64. Today, however, it would defnitely be an Intel Core 2.

This isn't sports:  brand loyalty basically means loyalty to a corporation and its management (oh wait, I guess it is just like pro sports). I used Diamond graphics boards for a long time, and then 3dfx, 3DLabs, and Matrox. The ATI board I had was awful. But Diamond started turning out crap products and then disappeared (merged with S3, switched to consumer electronics under the SonicBlue brand, and eventually went bankrupt), while Matrox dropped out of the consumer board market (no DX9 boards), and so I took a chance on an ATI 9800 Pro, and was more than happy. So that's where I am now. As long as ATI offers a high-performance product at a good price, I probably won't change (and I have non-performance issues with nVidia). Ironically, ATI now belongs to AMD.
 
My brand loyalty lasts only as long as the brand offers top performance at a competetive price, or there are interoperability factors (for example, all my IDE drives have been Western Digital, but my SCSI drives have been from Seagate, Fujitsu, and Quantum).

In my view, your best bet is to shop for performance-per-dollar, rather than on the basis of corporate identity.

And to take the pro sports analogy further, graphics boards have always reminded me a little of Indy Car racing. Everybody's trying to make that next tech leap, but leap the wrong way, and your race team is crippled for the next tech cycle. With graphic board manufacturers, leap the wrong way, and you take a hit in market share (or die completely).

That's what happened with ATI and Nvidia. ATI made a kick-ass board. Nvidia made two cards work together. SLI (Nvidia dual card) caught on like wild fire with the rise in sales and market share to prove it (heck, why not, selling two cards per unit has to increase sales, right?). ATI eventually came in with Crossfire, but the damage was done. So, still you have ATI with the best single board, but Nvidia with the best dual boards.

But honestly, who would've thought the next 'innovation' was blending two cards together? Funny thing the tech market.

Anyway, I really don't stand anywhere when it comes to ATI or Nvidia, it depends on what someone's after. Just posting a random thought I guess.

Hey Dr. Beast   ;D
The leap from piece of shit to mediocre is huge, and a little shocking!!

When I do get around to building that box, I'd like to play Oblivion on the not lowest settings, any suggestions?

My head hurts!  :D

I am looking at HP and Velocity. The Velocity machine is $1200 more. What I don't know is if it's worth it. My husband wants to make sure we are Vista ready when the time comes. Here are the proposed specs:

HP Pavilion d4650y customizable Desktop PC
RF170AV#ABA 
- Genuine Windows XP Professional
- Intel(R) Core(TM) 2 Duo processor E6600 (2.4GHz)
- 1GB DDR2-533MHz dual channel SDRAM (2x512)
- 500GB RAID 0 (2 x 250GB SATA HDDs) - performance
- LightScribe 16X DVD+/-R/RW SuperMulti drive
- 16x max. DVD-ROM
- Sonic DigitalMedia Deluxe-Burn/Copy, Label CD/DVDs
- 15-in-1 memory card reader, 3 USB, 1394, audio
- Logitech X-230 2.1 Speakers
- 802.11 b/g Wireless LAN PCI Card
- No TV Tuner w/remote control
- Up to 512MB ATI RADEON X1600 XT with HyperMemory
- Sound Blaster Audigy 4, 24-bit ADVANCED HD Audio
- HP Wireless Keyboard, Wireless Optical Mouse
- Microsoft(R) Office Small Business Edition
- HP Home & Home Office Store in-box envelope
   $2,037.99  $2,037.99 

And the Velocity Micro

Power Supply 550 Watt Antec® TRUE POWER 2.0 Quiet Power Supply with 120mm Smart Fan (SLI Certified by NVIDIA)
Power Cable Standard Power Cable
Case Lights None
Motherboard Asus® P5N32-SLI SE Deluxe - NVIDIA® nForce™ 4 SLI MCP, PCI Express Motherboard with DDR2
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E6600, dual 2.4GHz cores
CPU Cooling Arctic Cooling® Freezer 7 Heatsink, Ultra Quiet Fan, Copper Heat Pipes, plus Arctic Silver™ 5 Thermal Compound
DDR2 Memory 2048MB Corsair™ DDR2 PC5300 DDR667 (2x1024)
PCX Video 512MB ATI® Radeon™ X1950 XTX*, 2 x DVI out, 1 x S-Video out
Video Cooling VideoCool™ Positive Pressure Airflow System - Speed adjustable, with light
Video Tuning Moderate 3D Video Performance Tuning & Optimization (Requires VideoCool™ system)
Physics Processor None
Monitor 19" Viewsonic® LCD Display (VA902b), 1280 x 1024 resolution, 8ms Response Time - Black
Audio Creative Labs SoundBlaster® Audigy™ 4, high performance 7.1 channel sound
Speakers Creative Labs SBS380 2.1 Channel Stereo Speaker System with Compact Subwoofer - Black
Hard Drive 1 150GB Western Digital Raptor 10,000rpm SATA/150, 16MB Cache, NCQ (Incredible Performance!)
Hard Drive 2 250GB Western Digital WD2500JD 7200rpm SATA/150, 8MB Cache
Optical Drive 1 16x Lite On® DVD+/-RW/CD-RW Dual Layer, Black Bezel
Optical Drive 2 16x DVD/48x CD-RW Lite On® Combo Drive, Black Bezel
Floppy Drive & Media
Reader
8-in-1 Floppy Drive & Media Reader Combo, Black Bezel
Network Adapter Integrated 10/100/1000MBps Gigabit Ethernet Network Adapter
Network Adapter 2 or WiFi
Adapter
None
WiFi Router None
Modem None
FireWire 2 Integrated IEEE 1394 FireWire Ports, 1 front & 1 rear
USB 2.0 Ports 6 USB 2.0 Ports, 2 front & 4 rear
Operating System Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional w/Service Pack 2 on original CD, Installed & Performance Tuned
Productivity Software Genuine Microsoft® Office 2003 Small Business - Word, Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, Publisher
Benchmark Software NEW - FutureMark® 3DMark06® Velocity Micro Basic Edition - gaming performance benchmark software
Security Software None
Recovery Disk Custom DVD Restore Disk, returns your system hard drive to the original factory installation

Is the Velocity really worth that much more? I'm confused. We tend to buy computers every 5 or 6 years, so I like to look to the future and hope that a machine will last longer without much upgrading needed.

The Velocity has the option of a 2-150GB Western Digital RAID 0 drive, but I didn't want to spend that much. I like the idea of the faster drive and added the least expensive second hard drive for storage. We already have a 150 Gig external drive at home.

And thanks for the help you've already given me!

Hegelian, I owe you a bottle of fine vintage wine.

The new power supply (from PC Power & Cooling), the new ATI Radeon X850XT card, and the additional card fan Dell mandates are all installed and running beautifully.

Crisp, clean, and fast.  No more jerky movements or lapses.  What a delight!

Most interesting of all, my Dell 8400 DVD drive (I have two) constantly made roaring sounds when the system was booted up and during game play.  This system is now quiet as a mouse and I have to attribute that to the new PSU.

Your wise counsel is most appreciated.

I configured a 'puter for a friend of mine a couple of months ago. Since then, a) AMD switched from Socket 939 to socket AM2, and b) Intel released its killer Core 2 Duo series. His rig plays Oblivion just fine (FYI Athlon X2 3800+ S939, 2 GB RAM, nVidia 7600GT, SLi-capable m/b) at 1280x1024 with all settings maxed out, but starts chugging when switching to 1600x1200. This may be lovely and all, but the upgradeability went down the drain because of a), and he would have bought the same rig for substantially less money because of b). I feel this is a transitional period still, so since you won't be getting a new machine anytime soon, hold on to that question until that time comes.

Thanks for the opinion, and I will definately wait and ask again; I was just curious.  So many people at other gaming forums bitch and moan about performance issues with Oblivion, I thought perhaps it required a huge supercomputer to even startup!  ;D

I like the look of Intel dual core, but as for SLI capable video cards, capable is okay, but I do NOT want to buy two!!  I know it's all hot and everything, but the thought of my video card(s) costing more than the whole rest of the rig makes me shudder and sweat.  Of course, there will be a lot of new stuff out there when I get the cash, but I like to dream; you should see my wishlists at NewEgg!!

Songsmith, from what I've read on the 'Net, you'll need at least 2 GB RAM for Vista.

You might want to vist Microsoft's Vista site and read what they have to say.  Ignore the "minimum" requirements unless you want doggy performance.  Tantamount to running TS2 with the Maxis stated minimum requirements.

Also, you might want to hold off on Vista until the second SP has been distributed.  The MS track record isn't all that great.

Personally, if I knew I'd be in the market for a computer soon, I'd buy right now before Vista, for sure.  ;) I will switch to Vista when I have to, and not one second before. I shudder to think of all the things the new DRM is going to break, let alone the extra hard drive space it eats up, and the RAM for the desktop.  ::) I like my computer to work, thanks anyway, not just look pretty.  Okay, maybe it will have a few less of the same old MS holes, but it will only have 3 zillion new ones that haven't been patched yet.

Maybe in 3 or 4 years, when I need a new laptop and have no choice. Definitely not voluntarily. Not unless something went miraculously right with MS for a change.

Don't forget about DirectX 10  :)

I can't imagine what they'll screw up with that.

Oops, I thought I had 2 Gig on that HP. I know that's what's needed. I wanted the new computer to be Vista ready when and if the time comes to switch.

The point is moot, however. It looks like our video card fried on this thing but can be fixed, so we will hold off  on purchasing a new PC a bit. I'd like to have a new PC (who wouldn't?) but, like you, I'd rather wait for the bugs to be worked out of the tech that's right around the corner rather than paying for the privilege of being a beta tester, which seems what software companies expect people to do anymore.  :-\

Sorry to keep doing this, but I do not know anything about computers except how to play the sims2! What about this pc?

Components
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD edit
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs edit
HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ edit
ADDITIONAL HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™ edit
OPTICAL DRIVE Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable edit
MONITOR No Monitor edit
VIDEO CARD 512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX edit
SOUND CARD Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
 

XPS Specialized Support XPS, Specialized Support 
Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable 
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs 
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard 
SYSTEM DETAILS 750-watt Power Supply 
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans 
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans

It would run TS2 great, assuming Nvidia made a driver that's compatible.  ;) I haven't been keeping up, what are the status of their latest drivers and the game?  Good going on adding the XP installation disk. So many people don't and then are lost when they have to reinstall.

That system is a killer brat! The only thing you could improve is switching to 800MHz DDR2 sticks instead of 667MHz. Other than that, let me grab my heart pills before you tell me how much that beast will cost!

Well, I admit it is a little on the expensive side, but it seems like I'm getting a new computer every year or so. Plus I would like to have one that can handle all my downloads and not take an hour for my game to load!

Very, very cool machine, Brat.

I personally would switch an equivalent (or better) ATI card for the nVidia.  Hegelian has made some valid comments about the difference above.

Finally, might be a good idea to ask the seller/mfg. if they will give you a Vista premier coupon so you wont' have to fork out any $$$$ should you decide to switch the OS in a few months.  That is being done by several computer manufacturers.

[Edited to include Vista Ultimate coupon, as the premier and ultimate versions support the Aero graphics; the home basic version does not]

I just thought of something else- does the motherboard support 2 video cards? If you're looking to build a machine that you won't have to replace anytime soon, it's something to consider. I wish I'd made that decision a year ago, honestly (that and I wished I'd known AMD was going to change the darn socket so fast. LOL). Just because the performance difference isn't large enough to justify the price difference NOW IMNSHO, doesn't mean that 1-2 years down the road, games won't rely on it more, and you'll wish you'd thought ahead. Building something you can upgrade to meet future needs whenever possible, rather than needing to replace the entire thing, is always a good idea.

Otherwise, like I hinted at before and Ziggy said, go with an ATI card. It will prevent headaches later on. 

Okay. This is what I have listed so far-

XPS 700 Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition with re-installation CD
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Keyboard Saitek 104-Key Eclipse Backlit Gaming Keyboard (Ships Separately)
Monitor No Monitor
Video Card Dual 512MB ATI Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
Hard Drive 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
Mouse LOGITECH G5 Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Modem No Modem Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No Pre-installed software
Additional Hard Drive 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™


Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard
SYSTEM DETAILS 1 kilowatt Power Supply
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans
Photos, music & more! No preinstalled software

As I said before, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to computers. How can I tell if it will support a second card? Thanks, guys, for all your help. I really do appreciate it.
 


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Just a few thoughts. I've been on tech boards for years and for reviews of mainboards and video cards and memory there is no one better than MS at www.lostcircuits.com. There is a forum and he can and will answer all questions. Much better than Tom's Hardware is.

I'm running a Nvidia GF6600 AGP 256 meg on this machine. I've found the drivers for the Nvidia cards with Sims 2  can make or break how it plays. When I upgraded to this Athlon 64 I did a clean install because I put in a 160 GIG HDD with an 8 meg cache on it and had changed the mainboard from an NForce chipset board to a SIS chipset board. XP doesn't like that too well. LOL I have too many Grandkids and the one in college needed two computers (One for at school and one at home) Thus I grabbed this socket 754 board for me and moved my old set up to them (XP2200+). Anyway I had put in the latest Nvidia drivers when I upgraded 8. something(March 2006 issue date) and the game was choppy, video card was running hotter than H , blue screen with the cute little hour glass, blotchy video at times. So I went back to the 7.1.8.9 drivers issued 4/1/2005 (Still on Nvidia's site) and those work like a dream. Game has no video type glitches anymore.

Then after running this game vanilla with nothing in it except Maxis stuff I was going nuts with some of the game annoyances. So I downloaded several hacks to fix those from this site this week and low and behold, this game is running the best I've seen it run since the day it came out. Loads fast, no lags, rotation is fast, moving up and down levels is fast, no application crashes.....so I would assume from this that it's a combo thing to get this game to run right. Plenty of ram,at least a gig, a good video card (ATI or Nvidia) drivers are critical, and perhaps several of these hacks that fix some of Maxis code that just isn't up to par????? I have all expansions in here and the latest OFB patch. I don't have the two little packs though GL and FF.

My son is a WOW player and he runs the X800 ATI card. No problems there. He did have a problem with an ATI 9600 Pro card. It would give errors when playing WOW. We knew they had some cards with bad chipsets so after trying every driver ATI had, we shipped it back, got the replacement and same thing. The old ATI 8500 would play WOW but couldn't display the underwater scenes, my FX5700 would play it without errors so we knew it was something with that 9600 PRO. That's when he bought the X800 and that ended all his problems. He'll keep it until he upgrades his computer again. Which he does about every two years. Odd thing is my oldest grandson has the 9600 PRO, plays WOW and has no problems whatever with it. Kind of tells you all video cards aren't created equal.They were both Saphire cards.

So while your upgrading, if your going to keep these machines for any length of time. Go with the best out there at the time that you can afford and if your a big gamer, don't cut corners on ram and video. Intel has only one core that's worth having and that's the Conroe based processors. I however only run AMD and have only ran AMD for years. When I upgrade again I will probably go with all the bells and whistles, provided I don't have to build  4 of these at once. (Grandkids saying "Mamo I need you to build me a computer".

It looks like that one has 2 video cards already.  :) Two mighty fine ones at that- I'd be estatic with just one x1950. Goodness, that thing must be costing you an arm and a leg.  ;)

*DrBeast dies of heart failure just by guessing the price...and by brat's comment on getting a new rig every year!

If money is no object, Brat, which it doesn't seem to be, then I'd up the RAM to four gigabytes, switch the OS to XP professional, and request the manufacturer include a Vista Ultimate upgrade coupon.

On the other hand, am sure your current specs will keep you happy for a couple of years.

Just wear a seat belt when you're at the keyboard and make certain you have a top of the line surge protector.

Okay, guys, this is it-

XPS 700 Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD
Memory 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 4 DIMMs
Keyboard Saitek 104-Key Eclipse Backlit Gaming Keyboard (Ships Separately)
Monitor No Monitor
Video Card Dual 512MB ATI Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
Hard Drive 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
Mouse LOGITECH G5 Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Modem No Modem Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No Pre-installed software
Additional Hard Drive 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Security Software PC-cillin Internet Security with AntiVirus and Spyware removal 36-months
Warranty and Service 2Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
XPS Specialized Support XPS, Specialized Support
Protection Against Accidents Add CompleteCare Accidental Damage Service to 2Yr Lim Warranty
Internet Access Service No ISP requested
Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard
SYSTEM DETAILS 1 kilowatt Power Supply
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans
Photos, music & more! No preinstalled software
 
I thought I had the XP Pro. Thanks for pointing that out. Any last words of advice before I push the buy button? Thanks so much for all your input.

Looks perfect to me. I'm very jealous!  ;)

Not perfect...should switch to 800MHz DDR2 RAMs to achieve perfection...

*DrBeast can't believe he just said that!


A seat belt? Heh, with a rig like that he needs a G-suit and an ejection seat!

ETA: am I blind or can't I see the motherboard in the specs?

If it's using the board I'm thinking it's using (some form of the Intel P865), then you can't have the 800MHz DDR2 with 4gigs. It slows down to 667MHz.

I'm looking at getting a new computer which will be built by one of my techie mates.  I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my thoughts on components and give me some advice. I want a pc that I don't have to upgrade (too much) for a while and will happily play my games.

I am on a budget so could not really afford to go much above these requirements unless I sacrificed something else. If I can save equivalent of US$50 then I can afford to get a sound card.

CPU - Intel Core Duo E6300
Motherboard - ASUS P5NSLI
Memory - 1GB generic
Graphics - 1x nVidia GeForce 7600 GT (working on the assumption that when I have more money I can purchase another one)
Hard drive - Seagate 7200.9 160 GB
CD/DVD-Rom - Pioneer DVD-111DBK
Case - Antec Sonata II
OS - Windows XP Home
Monitor - 17" LCD
Basic Mouse & Keyboard
(already have speakers)

You might want to reconsider that Nvidia card. There have been lots of problems with Nvidia's drivers and TS2 over the past year+  Now, that may be Maxis' fault rather than Nvidia's, but it doesn't really matter if you want to play TS2. ;) ATI cards haven't had those kind of issues.

I'd also go with 2 GB of RAM. 

Ok, thanks, I'll take that on board.  :)

I am considering a Dell XPS 410 with the above configuration but I'm wondering about the graphics card.  I know the Nvidia cards have had problems with TS2 lately.  I've always used ATI cards (my current one is a Radeon 9600 XT which I've been very happy with).  Dell's other graphics card option on this model is an ATI X1300 Pro (256 MB).  I looked at the charts on Tom's Hardware and it seems to suggest the X1300 Pro is at the bottom end of the spectrum, quality-wise.  But would it be enough to run TS2 + all EPs?  I can always upgrade later if necessary.

One of my main motivations in upgrading to a new system is to speed up the load time of the game.  Currently (with a Pentium IV 2.4 GHZ with 1 GB RAM) it takes 15 minutes to load the game, plus about 5 minutes to load the neighborhood.  I certainly hope this system would run a lot faster than that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Why not just save money, get the nVidea with the new system, and then just pull your 1600 XT from your current system and use it in the new one?  If you're keeping the current system for other use, just put the nVidea in it.

My current card (the 9600XT) is more than 2 years old and only has 128 MB of RAM.  I don't want to put a card like that in a brand new system.  What I'm really trying to figure out is whether the ATI X1300 Pro will be sufficient to run the game.

The 9600XT won't work anyway, it's an AGP card, and the new XPS will take a PCI-Express card.

If you can run the Sims and expansions on the 9600XT, you can run it on the X1300 Pro. "and expansions" doesn't make any difference anyway. OFB actually makes the game run better than running TS2 by itself runs. Plus, TS2 is now 2 years old- it doesn't need a bleeding edge card.  Thirdly, TS2 relies more on the processor and RAM than the video card. A newer card would make it look prettier, but it's not going to actually run any better.
So yes, the x1300 will be sufficient.

Ah, ok -- you edited the card model. :)  Yea, as katenigma says, the 1300 would be fine. Any ATI card from an 850 up would be fine.

Hi guys, Best Buy and Circuit City look like they have insane deals on PCI Express Graphics Cards... I eventually plan to get a new computer... probably by the end of this month, or sometime next month, depending on how things work out. I am wondering what the experts (you guys ;)) think about the following i.e. the specs, the cost (is the deal too good to pass up? or are these typical prices), etc.

BFG 3DFuzion GeForce 7300 GS 256MB DDR2 PCI Express Graphics Card (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7727365&productCategoryId=cat01151&type=product&cmp=++&id=1140391860712) Reg. Price: $104.99 Sale: $79.99



   
PNY Verto GeForce 7900 GS 256MB PCI Express Graphics Card (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8003732&type=product&cmp=++&id=1155072371459) Reg. Price: $199.99 Sale: $149.99




EVGA e-GeForce 7300GT 512MB PCI Video Card (http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/productDetail.do?oid=154427&cm_keycode=85) Price was: $179.99 Price after rebate: $119.99




EVGA e-GeForce™ 7600 GS Video Card with Passive Heatsink (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/EVGA-e-GeForce-7600-GS-Video-Card-256P2N549DX/sem/rpsm/oid/152206/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do#tabs) Price was: $149.99 Price after rebate: $99.99




PNY GeForce 7300 GT PCIe Graphics Card (http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/PNY-GeForce-7300-GT-PCIe-Graphics-Card-VCG7300GXPB/sem/rpsm/oid/162618/catOid/-13043/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do) Price was: $229.99 Price after rebate: $129.99



Also... which one would be the "best" card performance wise, and the "best" deal price wise? I'm quite partial to the EVGA e-GeForce 7300GT, since it has 512MB of memory, but... it clocks in only at 350Mhz, as opposed to the 400Mhz for the others, and I think the BFG one is OC at 550Mhz. Does that make a significant difference, performance wise? It seems the "higher" end GT models have lower GPU processor clock speeds.

You can get the 7300 series for around $50 at NewEgg (although not with 512 memory), and the 7600 for about $90-100.  As for the 7900 GS, you can get it for $139 after mail-in rebate, which would be worth the extra 10 bucks to avoid.  I always say, get the best you can afford, which would be the 7900, I guess.    ;D

Some notes:
With Nvidia 'GS' always means less pipelines (in this case 4; more is better), and in some cases, a smaller memory interface (larger is better); for instance, all of the 7300GS's have a 64bit memory interface (there's a lot of AGP cards with better memory interfaces than that), while the 7300GT's have 128bit memory interfaces.

Be careful of that 512MB memory on that 7300GT. The lower level 7xxx Series Nvidia cards now have something called 'with Turbo Cache'. This means it has lower onboard memory (in this case probably 256MB) and takes system memory to make the card 'look' like it has 512MB. If that's the case, don't bother, because any spill over in the graphics workload will be taken up by system memory anyway.

Anyway, enough notes. IMHO, the best performance card you have up there is the 7900GS. It has 20 pipelines; a 7900GT would have 24; but that's not that bad. If you could, try to find a 7900GS made by EVGA or BFG; PNY cards are overpriced for no good reason.

A long time ago, heh heh like 6 months ago  :) I'd say your value card was the 7600GS. A lot of people I know liked it. Unfortunatly, Nvidia is really pushing that blasted 7300 series. But, who knows, by the time you buy/build, the 7600GS would be even cheaper because it's being replaced. If so, the 7600GS would be your best value.

Hi, my telephone company is offering this Dell desktop computer for 36  monthly payments.  I would so value your opinions on the specs for this machine!  ;D

DELLTM DIMENSIONTM C521 desktop computer

-Processor:AMD Sempron¿ 3400+
-Memory:512MB, DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
-Hard Drive:80GB Serial ATA
-Monitor:17 inch E773
-16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW)
-Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
-Dell A225 Speakers
-56K PCI Data Fax Modem
-Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
-Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
-Dell USB Keyboard & Optical Mouse
-Genuine Windows¿ XP Home Edition
-Microsoft¿ Works 8 (does NOT include MS Word)

I do realize the Nvidia cards are not recommended for good Sims2 play, but I would replace that with an ATI Radeon Card 850PRO or 1600PRO I believe it is.

Thank you.

36 monthly payments of what, is the question.  It doesn't seem to be a remarkable machine, but it is certainly better than my old desktop (which is atleast five years old).  :D

WTF is this "monthly payments" bullshit? Is this some kind of rent-a-computer thing? Sounds idiotic to me. Plus that computer is shit. I wouldn't pay more than $250 for that, tops.

Yeah, with my 1.3 GHz processor and 512 max memory and 40 gig hard drive, I might trade ya mine and pay, um, $1.42 a month.  Do you take PayPal?

Just Kidding (I must reel in my Retardo Land replies).  That computer is worth it if yours is very sucky and you can't afford to get one without payments.

You could probably do better (but maybe pay more in the long run--what are the payments?) at a Rent-A-Center.

/me stares blankly.

Don't fall for that "payments" bullshit. Especially on brand-name computers, those are worthless. It's just a transparently obvious attempt to sucker stupid people into an extended contract that will cost more than buying the computer in the first place, and keep you paying for it after the computer is junk in a year, and eventually they just let you keep the stupid thing because it would cost them more to collect and reprocess it than to simply write it off.

Have you ever seen the deals at rental outlets (like Rent-A-Center or Aaron's)?  In 1984, my mom bought a VCR at one, and ended up paying over a grand when payments, interest, and late fees were all over.   ::)

Glad it wasn't Beta.

How is that a *DEAL*? And don't go knocking Beta, I still use mine.

No deal.  Semi-psychotic, drug-addled decision making.  Don't worry, she's better now.  What do you watch on Beta?

Anything I happen to tape, which is not a lot seeing as I don't watch TV anymore, plus my TV is broken? Which was mostly old Star Trek episodes anyway.

Oh, that clears it up: if there is anything you want to see on Beta, it's because you put it there yourself.  TV, ehh, not so much.  Now, if you had a Beta video camera, maybe.

Edited to get this beautiful, wonderful, helpful thread back on track:  Tom's Hardware has a new Best Video Card for Your Money article--http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/31/the_best_video_cards_for_your_money/ (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/10/31/the_best_video_cards_for_your_money/)

Ummmm.... no LOL

We needed a laptop (DH did for work) quickly and we didn't have the cash at hand, so we let Dell talk us into one of their monthly plans. Minimum payment was $45- $10 towards the computer, $35 in interest and fees.  At Dell's rates, the computer will be a doorstop before you are done paying for it. We have since transferred the balance to a new CC under one of the "no interest for X months" deals.  Even if we don't pay it off before then, the interest on our CREDIT CARD is a heck of a lot less than Dell's so what does that tell you? Don't let them sucker you.

As for the computer, TS2 will use every bit of 2 GB of RAM, and the Sempron processor is good for office applications, not gaming.  I CAN play TS2 on my laptop with its Sempron processor, but it's pretty slow. I certainly wouldn't have bought it for Sims, but unfortunately, my computing and financial decisions can't just revolve around gaming. LOL  The card is the least of your worries, and it's not exactly new technology.

RIPOFF! Just sell some some junk, or if you don't have any, sell your ass. You can't possibly need it that badly, and how do you NOT have enough money to pay for that? Computers are not expensive, nor do they need to be replaced THAT often. Are you seriously trying to say you don't even have that much? What the hell are you doing with all that money? You said he needed it for work, which means he has a JOB. How do you waste that much money?

The processor falls way short for most/all games, even TS2.

Bottom line: Dell.com says it's a $359.00 computer. Unless it's $9.95 a month with no strings attached, it's not a good deal.

Even still, if you can buy a $150.00 video board to put in it straight up, why not $350.00 straight up for the whole computer?

ETA: The E773 monitor included in the package is a refurbished CRT monitor. As far as adding value to the package; it doesn't.

Yes, well, dell.com is full of shysters and thieves. $250. For the entire package. No more.

I cant figure out why her phone company is acting as a middle man for Dell...weird.

And Sempron sucks. as does Dell, none of the really cool stuff in the box is upgradable...get an HP if you going to go name brand. You can still get a presario from HP for under 500 easy that works just fine for the sims, I got mine at Best Buy in April for 509, and once I cleaned the OS proper I havent had any problems with it, hell it even has intergrated video! (all sims/video/graphics options available with no lag, loads over 4gigs in less than 6mins etc)

Hp has payment plans too by the way, and I dont think anyone would buy a shoe from a clockmaker so why buy a computer from a phone company?

The only thing I can think of, since I'm pretty sure only Dell can sell new Dell, it that the whole thing is refurbished. Of course, that just makes things worse, because now the computer ain't even worth $250.

Well, Dell does have that model listed for the same price on their website (http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_dimenc521?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs), new...why they need the phone company or the phone company feels it needs to be a go between...

Obviously, this is some sort of marketting deal between the two, which explains the higher prices... Dell's gotta cut the phone company in on the profits!

The phone company already has all the information and intimidation tactics worked into their business model so it is very simple for them to add the cost of your computer onto your phone bill and threaten to cut off your phone if you don't pay the computer portion of your bill. And although they don't need any additional perks from any low-life computer company they probably have them anyway.

It is clearly a communist conspiracy and not to be trusted.

 ::)

The January 2007 issue of PC World includes a review of desktops under $1,000.  That cheap Dell is somewhere near the bottom of the list.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,123848;page,1/article.html

If you're looking to buy a new computer, I would NOT buy a new package deal like that, especially with monitors. Monitors are grossly overpriced, the technology underlying them hasn't changed in years, and you don't need a new one when your old one will do fine. Monitor technology has not fundamentally changed since the invention of the television and there is absolutely no reason to buy a new one. Especially when some whiny wussies wanting to trade to some new-fangled, unreliable, dodgy, useless-for-gaming LCD monitor would happily unload their good, old-fashioned, heavy ion-bombardment-tube on you for free.

/me loves her LCD (ViewSonic VA902) ...
 3 CRTs practically died one after the other, while this one is doing fine.
The only "big screen" left around here is my father's 19'' which he runs with a 800x600 resolution. So sad to see.

I'm just missing one thing with LCDs... hardly any room to put notes onto, neither Post-it nor directly pen-on-plastic. ;)

 :o well um *cough* guess I won't be buying that one!!!  :D  I know I was being a silly twit even thinking about it but I was just hoping for a quick fix, and I did have a feeling it would be a dud, to good to be true type of thing!!  ::)

I know I can get a custom-made tower for at least $600.00 + tax Canadian with specs for gaming purposes, as indicated in these posts, but I will have to wait and save up the money for that  ::) Now with Christmas coming up, no chance in hell with that.

My game is just soo slow loading up played lots and going to community lots, and I can't play any lot larger than the 3 x 3.  I know I shouldn't complain, but seems like such a shame to play like that with a game which has soo much potential.

Oh well, hopefully in the new year!  Thank you for your opinions, I do appreciate them.  I knew you guys would tell me the harsh honest truth!  :D

Tell everyone to give you VisaBux cards for Christmas...

What manner of jargle is this? Switching the OS is something you do yourself. And what is this nonsense about an "upgrade coupon? Do you work for Microsoft or something? GET YE SPYWARE-PEDDLING BUTTOCKS FROM MY SITE!

Why pay for the OS it comes with, then the OS you want?  Just have them put the right one on first.

Why pay extra $$$ to a company for a different, most likely more expensive OS to install, when you got a bunch of unused discs of your preferred OS in that CD rack right by your side?

Most companies are giving the Vista voucher for free.  So if I were going to buy a new computer from some idiot company right now, I'd go ahead and take the voucher and trade it in for Vista next month.

And then the CD would sit in a file drawer until SP1 is released.  ;)  Most people are going to want to upgrade eventually, so why not get the upgrade for free?  Except that when I do make the change, kicking and screaming, I'm going to want the 64 version (it's going to be a thousand times more secure, since it prevents anyone from changing the kernel, even AV's who are throwing a fit about it, which it why it got removed from the regular versions) and I don 't think they're giving out vouchers for that, only the regular version.

The voucher for a free update to Vista is a different story, I was aiming at the "get WinXP Prof instead of Home" point. :)

It's not free, the cost is simply hidden from you.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a *GOOD* thing. I mean, sure, it sounds good in theory, but it will also obstruct attempts to hack around the Microsoft spyware. And we know Vista is spyware. BAAAAD.

Doesn't 64-bit break a ton of stuff? I heard that even Visual Basic is obsoleted on win64.

If you're going to use Windows in the future and you insist on connecting it to the internet, you may as well upgrade to Vista. It's much more secure than XP, anyway (unless you consider Microsoft a security risk, that is).

64-bit doesn't have the drivers yet, but eventually it will. It doesn't "break" anything, the companies just haven't had the time to write drivers yet and rethink how they do things since everyone wants to be able to access the kernel.

And "more secure" is Microsoft Lies and Propaganda. XP will be more secure than Vista for years to come because they started completely over with Vista. People have been poking sticks at XP for 6 years now, and it was based off code used in other versions of Windows (or stolen from BSD) which had also been poked and prodded and had tens of thousands of holes and problems fixed.  As late as this fall, the build still had a major hole in it that other OS's had patched literally 20 years ago.  XP has just gotten to a stage where it is relatively secure- as secure as something that's not open source can be, probably. It will be 6 years, at least, before Vista even approaches that.

I was told that Windows was originally not intended for networking, that when they added this they made everything open by default to aid the networking process. Then they spent the next few years closing everything as it became obvious there were security risks.

If Vista is designed from the ground up, would they start by closing everything first? That might make it more secure.

You were told mostly right.

Win95 was not designed for TCP/IP networking, and it was patched in. XP and 2k carried across internet explorer and the entire MSHTML engine, which dated back to early '95 kluges. That's why MSIE is to this date an insecure piece of crap. And since MS has made the entire OS run on it, so is Windows.

If Microsoft would separate MSIE from the Windows shell, Windows would be infinitely more secure.

I had a lovely little util for win 98 that seperated out MSIE from the shell - Win98 Lite - by somebody in Oz I think. I haven't seen anything like that for WinXP, MSIE is probably too tightly integrated now.

Still, hopefully Vista starts off by shutting the gates.

There's LitePC (http://www.litepc.com/), but this just disables MSIE by ripping it out of the shell and replacing it with custom hooks.

Microsoft knows it cannot afford to let another browser win, so it has made sure you cannot remove MSIE without also removing Windows 2k/xp/2003.

For '98 you could always go back to the non-infested '95a or '95b shell.

XP is about as secure as Mac OS 6. You'd have to be nuts to prefer it to Vista. Where do you think all the bots and spammers come from? They are mostly fueled by clueless XP users. Same deal whether you run Windows XP base or SP1/2 or even Windows 98. It's as good as saying "pw3n m333!"

I'm no M$ fanboi here. I run Ubuntu. But if you've already made the decision to turn your box into Windows TV, you may as well not be part of the spamming/DDoS problem.

How do you run the sims? I thought it still didn't run on Linux because of the Direct X issues?

I still play it on XP, but my network is completely blacklisted there. I obviously won't be upgrading any time soon.  :P

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. Blacklisted where?

/me takes out his Linux to Windows jargon dictionary

Disabled in the Devices control panel, that is.  :P

I simply don't trust Vista. There are persistent reports that for whatever benefits from threats against hackers you gain, you lose out against threats from Microsoft itself, a bigger threat than any common hacker. Vista is spyware!

Heh, I just keep staring at that 'optional' XP update that allows the new uber-remote-desktop feature of Vista (Terminal Services Client 6.0) to control XP machines. Uh, yeah, I'll be downloading that soon.  ::)

 :D Cheers mate.

ETA:

I was surprised at all the remote control services enabled by default in WinXP. I followed an internet tutorial to turn a lot of it off. MS is one of the most intrusive, ubiquitous pests on the net IMHO, I feel like I'm just getting XP under control, then I'll have to start all over again with Vista. Sigh.

Ports that listen by default are just the start. There's all this, for example: http://secunia.com/product/22/?task=advisories

There are still a number of unpatched vulnerabilities that can give a remote attacker system access. It's just a mess. Add to that the fact that anti-virus software is usually pretty ineffective, and I can't see giving Windows access to the internet.

Cor Blimey! Now I'm worried again. :(

I do use a hardware firewall in my router and have all my ports closed except for a Bittorrent one - hopefully that's enough of a block. Plus I don't download endless crappy toolbars or use IE or sling my email addy round the net, so I've just got my fingers crossed.

I see many of those unpatched vulnerabilities are related to remote control stuff, it's like MS is the biggest Zombie Master out there.

I'm thinking of buying a laptop. I'm going to start writing my thesis for Uni and my ass hurts from prolonged sitting. Plus I have to be able to take my words to school (where I also work) and continue working. While I'm getting one I want to get a good one to last me at least a few years. I also do a little photoshop and probably will end up installing the sims on that system as well as my desktop.
If I don't play the sims on that computer, maybe the model I found is a bit excessive. But would it hurt too much? I found it for 1,600USD-(HP). With those specs, all the other good brands are way too expensive. I'd like some comments on it, can I post the specs here?

Please post the specs, and for $1600 USD, I could buy an HP that would play the Sims just fine, so unless you were just an idiot about it, I'm sure it will be great. For low-end, basic systems, Dell is usually the least expensive, but after that, HP beats them- and every other brand name- every time.

Edit: Geesh, either inflation or Vista has made prices skyrocket since summer when I was shopping for my laptop.

Copper and shipping cost is up yes, but I really think it's them making the laptop Vista capable. It'll have to be 1gb ram for sure (no more 'living' with 562 or 768), dual core cpu, faster/larger hdd, and a dedicated 3d accelerator card built in to really run Vista. That'll drive the cost up to be sure.

I think it's just the increased cost of Vista, honestly, and all those vouchers. Because when I was pricing them in August, they would have run Vista fine since I was looking with an eye for Simming (duo, 2 GB RAM, ATI mobility card) but now you can't get a worse laptop for that price. I don't even want to think about how much power you'll need to run TS2 and Vista both.

I'm tempted to buy a Vista family pack and toss them into a drawer since we always build our own desktops so eventually I'll have to bite the bullet and buy the damn things, and better $400 now than $700 later for 2 copies, but DH thinks there are better things to do with our money. Which I will remind him of in another year or so when he wants to build a new machine.

I can hear the reports of laptop fires now.

I don't think I'll be using vista soon, and I'm sad that the prices are high here. This is the best I could find in my price range, and not DELL as I have no trust in that company due to horrors lived by my dad and my sister.
Here's the specs:

HP Pavilion DV6189EA AMD Turion 64 X2 TL-56 1.8GHz, 2GB DDR, 120GB SATA HDD, 15.4'', XP Media Center Notebook (RP957EA)

Processor: AMD Turion 64 X2 Technology TL-56 (1.8 Ghz)
Memory: 2 GB (2*1024 MB DDR-2 SDRAM-how is it DDR2 AND SD, I dunno)
Hard Disc: 120 GB SATA 5400rpm
Graphics Card: Nvidia GeForce Go 7200 sp. TurboCache 256 MB
Monitor?: 15,4'' WXGA HD BrightView (1280*800)
 *DVD-RW (+/-) LightScribe
*Entegre 10/100 Ethernet
*Modem: Entegre 56K modem
*Sound: Onboard / Altec Lansing speakers
*Mouse: TouchPad
*Wireless 802,11b/g, /Bluetooth/HP Mobile remote, WebCam

Guarantee : 2 Years

I'm not sure about the graphics card, is this on board or something, I'm not sure. I don't want an onboard card or if that's what it's called. Oh! And it's 1.650USD

  My Sims 2  pets was taken over 45 mins to load and I got tired of it taken so long to load and I gave in and called Dell.ca they financed  me again for  a new computer..

For those wondering, I have all the Sims 2 games and stuff pack game's, my current computer  I'm on which is paid off, only had a
pentium 4  3.4 Ghz processor, it's a Dell Dimension 8400, I already had the hard drive and motherboard replaced under the 3 year warrenty and I maxed out the Ram to 4 Gigabytes DDR2 Ram last year,  video card ATI Radeon X300!..

 not mentioning the price  tag, because that's my business and last time I mentioned I financed a computer on a gaming forum they all where shocked by the ammount I'd end up paying at the end of the four year contract, these  places that rent to own or that finance you are place's of last resort and convenience for those of us that can't dish out the money needed for a new computer each year!, the amount that Dell is giving me well be a better deal then Canada's MDG or those rent to own place's here in Canada, and both Canada's MDG  and those  rent to own place's  have crappy computers that are  over priced, enough said about  that!..

 
  [I might transfer some of my DDR 2 Ram from my current PC to my new PC sense they both  use the same type of Ram]

Specs for new PC!.. [from e-mail from Dell]


 1 466-2278 DIM 9200,CDCR, E6400 (2.13GHZ),DCT,2MB
  1 310-7963 DELL USB KEYBOARD
  1 310-7966 DELL OPTICAL USB MOUSE
  1 310-8542 BACKUP MEDIA FOR XP MCE,05U,DIM 9200
  1 310-8583 XPRS UPG,VISTA PREM FRM XP MCE,ENG,DIM
  1 310-8590 WWW.DELLVISTAUPGRADE.COM TO REDEEM
  1 310-8591 VISTA CAPABLE STICKER, DIM
  1 310-8617 VISTA CAPABLE VALIDATOR INFO
  1 311-5115 1GB DDR2 SDRAM AT 533MHZ-2X512MB,DIM,P
  1 313-2758 INTEGRATED AUDIO
  1 313-4032 DELL A525 SPEAKERS, BLACK, DIM
  1 313-4423 16X DVD-ROM AND 16X DVD+/-RW,P
  1 313-4427 V.92/56K PCI DATAFAX,INT MDM,FULL,LF,DIM
  1 320-4807 256MB NVIDIA 7900 GS,DIM,P
  1 320-5212 22IN (22.0 IN) E228WFP,DIM,P
  1 341-3865 NO FLOPPY DRIVE REQUESTED
  1 412-0688 IMAGE RESTORE, DIM
  1 412-0853 MCAFEE 7.0,OEM,ENG,3YR,DIM/INSP
  1 412-0911 DELL SUPPORT 3.2,DIM/INSP
  1 412-0914 ADOBE ACROBAT READER 7.0,DIM
  1 412-0931 SNAPFIRE BASIC, DIM/INSP
  1 420-4927 WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER 10,DIM
  1 420-5585 WINXP MCE 2005,ENG,DIM,NM,U
  1 420-5769 ISP SEARCH ASST PORTAL,DIM/INSP
  1 420-5781 SONIC CINEPLAYER,XPS
  1 420-5790 ROXIO CREATOR/MYDVD LE,NON XPS,DIM/INSP
  1 461-8388 NO DIGITAL MUSIC SOFTWARE REQUESTED
  1 463-2282 THANKS FOR PURCHASING YOUR DELL
  1 465-3892 320GB SERIAL ATA 2,7200 RPM,DIM,P
  1 412-0452 MICROSOF OFFICE 2003 BASIC EDITION,INSP
  1 412-0674 AOL 9.0 ,FI,ENGLISH CANADA
  1 465-8990 ELIGIBLE FOR OFFICE UPGRADE,CAN/DLA
  1 930-1570 NBD OS,DIM, 9200,GTN,INIT YR, RA
  1 930-1577 HW WRTY + SVC,DIM,9200,INIT, RA
  1 960-2800 WARRANTY SPRT,DIM,INIT YR
  1 930-1572 NBD OS,DIM, 9200,GTN,2YR EXT, RA
  1 930-1578 HW WRTY + SVC,DIM,9200,EXT, RA
  1 950-5462 WARRANTY SPRT,DIM,2YR EXT
  1 007-1429 DIMENSION, SHIPPING AND HANDLING

The card is fine. It's a laptop, the card HAS to be onboard unless you're buying an expensive gaming machine (and even then, they can't really be upgraded since the specs are so tight that only 1 card, usually, will fit into any given machine. Which is why HP won't let you pick certain cards if you've picked certain other things).  ;)  If you don't buy this week, you'll be forced to have it come with Vista, and you should make sure you get the voucher for it anyway- it will either be free or something like $5, and then you'll have it come SP2 when it will be safe to run. LOL  The Turion processors aren't as good as the regular X2's or the Duo, but will be more than enough for Simming or writing papers, and you have enough RAM. Don't worry about it, it's a good computer and the price isn't bad, either.

If you buy a top of the line computer to begin with, you don't need to buy one every year. You also didn't say how many downloads you have and if you bothered to defrag/de-spyware, etc before you decided to let them sell you a new machine. By the time you're done paying for your computer through Dell, it will be a doorstop. You'd be better off getting a credit card- the interest rate would be MUCH lower. We got an offer for 0% interest for X months and transferred our balance to it, and even when the time is up, the interest will be about half of what Dell was charging us. *shrug* But it's your money, and you can waste is anyway you please.

If you plan on running Vista or TS2 (not and, OR), you're going to wish you had at least 2 GB RAM instead of 1 and I hope you have enough slots for it, and I can't decipher what the processor is- I hope it's a Duo. Otherwise, it's okay.

In reply to katenigma

I have 10 gigabytes in my downloads folder, I defragmented my hard drive on Sunday and my pc has both Spybot - Search & Destroy & Ad-Aware SE Personal, I bought this PC almost 3 years ago, bought it out in December!..



I have a visa card its maxed out right now  :P


My current pc has four gigabyes of ram DDR 2  ram which I'll transfer to my new PC and leave this PC with 1 gig of ram, it only has windows XP service pack 2, my current pc is going to be for online downloading surfing  and emailing only when my new PC comes!..

The rent to own store would of tried to charge me  $39.99 plus insurance plus Canadian taxes a week for a clone pc, which is a total rip off, and they don't build them to your specs,  you take what those damn rent to own stores have in stock at the time!..

Dell is around 50 bucks cheaper a month  compared to rent to own stores here!..


Also I'm on disability and live way below the poverty line,  and get what I can afford!..

@Craigsters, I also have 10Gb of downloads, and it takes me 35 minutes for the game to load,I have an old 2.4GHZ processor  and I only have 1,5GB RAM (I say only, cos' I'm comparing to yours) I think 1,5 gigs is quite enough for any pc, and almost enough for a 10gig-loaded sims game. I don't know a lot about this, so I'm just guessing-maybe you won't get quite so much out of the new pc than you did with your other. But it's just my opinion.

@ katenigma: Thanks for your comments, I'm being more drawn to this laptop than I was before. But having never owned a notebook, and not too computer savvy, so I apologise if this sounds too dumb.(I've been reading a lot on computer stupidities)

 I still don't quite understand; when I said onboard, I meant; does it share the memory (the RAM), because that reduces my memory, right? And that's not so great, right?

Because when I built my own pc, I did most of the stuff myself. I wandered in forums, took advice from friends, etc. Bought the parts and knew that a pc with an onboard standard card gives crappy graphics, so I got  a good nvidia card I could afford and attached it myself. Not being a very musical person I didn't bother with the sound card.

So I'm just having trouble expressing myself here, hope it's clear.
And about vista, can't I uninstall that and install it again later? Because I need more than a week to make a decision :) Hehe. I guess I'm scared by the muck-ups of XP (Same with the sims :D) too much to trust something the week it comes out. I have to adjust mentally.

I'm also getting a new PC because this PC rejected my Tom Clancey's Splinter Cell Double Agent Game,  system requirements for this game are!..

Supported OS: Windows® XP (only)
Processor: 3 Ghz Pentium® 4 or AMD Athlon™ 3000 (3.5 Ghz Pentium 4 or Athlon 3500 recommended). Game optimized for Dual-processor-enabled computers.
RAM: 1 GB
Video Card: DirectX® 9.0c-compliant, Shader 3.0-enabled 128 MB video card (256 MB recommended) (see supported list*)
Sound Card: DirectX® 9.0c-compatible (EAX" recommended) - PC audio solution containing Dolby® Digital Live required for Dolby Digital audio.
DirectX Version: 9.0c or higher (9.0c included on disc)
DVD-ROM: 4x DVD-ROM or faster
Hard Drive Space: 8 GB
Peripherals Supported: Mouse, keyboard
Multiplay: Broadband connection with 128 kbps upstream or faster


*Supported Video Cards at Time of Release

ATI® X1600/X1800/X1900 NVidia® 6600 /6800/7300/7600/7800/7900

I see, anyway, I was just explaining my own Sims experience. And I would also like some more RAM to go with my downloads :) No fries with that please. (just fooling around)

I haven't looked up that specific card, but it probably does share some of the memory with the system. The one on my laptop, for instance, has some RAM of its own, but it also is configured to use some of the system RAM. It basically has to be set up that way, because the space inside of a laptop doesn't allow for a separate video card with its own massive amounts of RAM.  You can't judge a laptop using the same standards as you do a desktop, because the laptop will always come up short in that case. It's just the limitations of being a laptop.  :) Besides, onboard graphics does NOT automatically mean "crappy."  Two years ago, when TS2 came out, it required a top of the line video card. Top of the line two years ago= about what you can find in a good laptop today. My ATI 200M is a much less powerful card than the 7200 Go, and TS2 honestly looks beautiful on it- almost as good as on my desktop where I have the Radeon x850. It could use to be a little faster, but I have a sucky Sempron processor and only 1 GB RAM because I didn't buy it to play Sims on primarily, that's what I have the desktop for.   :D And once again, it comes down to the differences between a desktop and a laptop. The onboard cards they put on motherboards for a desktop are nowhere near as good as that onboard card on the laptop. I know it's a lot of money to spend all at once on something, but that laptop would be good enough to last you for 2-3 years, which is all you can really expect from laptops, since you can't really upgrade them.

As for Vista....it starts shipping the 31st. If you have an extra XP disk lying about or go out and buy one, you'll be able to uninstall Vista and install XP. Installing again later depends on whether HP sends you the installation disk or not.  :-\ Which is why, now, I'd much rather have a voucher so I could send away for the disk to install later, than to have it come pre-installed with Vista.

katenigma, thank you again for the very helpful information. I guess I did compare a laptop to a desktop, in standard features, and missed the whole point that a laptop is a computer you can carry around! So while it has some disadvantages to a desktop pc, it doesn't really matter coz I'll have both, and I'll be able to take one wherever I go). What one can't do, the other will, basically.

I assumed crappy graphics because my previous video card wasn't too good (pc), and I did get lots of game glitches and none of the top-end effects. But now that you say it's not the same thing in laptops, I get it, and anyway, that graphics card 7200 and 256memory, it's wayyy better than my old card, maybe even better than the one I have now (I have a Geforce 6600GT).

Anyway, more RAM is more important for me, as I tend to hog the game with downloads, and I've had a great experience since I upped the pc from 512MB to 1.5GB. So 2 is even better!

And Vista, well I'll try it for a while if my laptop comes with it. (but it says Windows XP media center installed. I'll ask about it) ;D

I'm getting ready to purchase a new computer, i found a great deal. But I'm lost on the video card. It comes with
ATI RADEON X1950 XTX.   This computer is a good 1000 less than i would pay if i spec'd it out myself. But I'm totally unfamilar with this particular card. So I'm a little hesitant to jump on it.
Has anyone used this one for sims 2? And if so how are your graphics? I would rather wait if this one doesn't work than get a bad card for the game.

That happens to be a superlative video card.  Jump.

Heres the full specs on the system.
Any negatives? anyone got recommendations on monitors?


Operating Systems           Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional Edition SP
        PCI Slots (Total) Learn More           3
Expansion Slots           7
Processor Brand           Intel®
Processor Class           Core2 Duo
Processor Number           E6700
Processor Speed           2.66GHz
Additional Technologies           Dual-Core Technology
Intel® Extended Memory 64 Technology
Memory Type           DDR2
Total Memory           4.0GB
Interface           SATA
Capacity           1TB RAID 0 (2x500GB)
Optical Drive Type           DVD±RW Dual Layer
DVD-ROM / CD-RW Combo
Audio Description           Integrated Audio
Graphics Description           PCI-Express Video Card ATI 1950 XTX
Video Memory           512MB Memory
Communications Description           Integrated LAN Support
Data Transfer Rate           10Mbps
100Mbps
1000Mbps
Power           500 Watt
Mouse Type           Optical
Wireless
 Buttons           3
 Keyboard Type           Multimedia
Wireless
 Height           16.5"
Width           7.5"
Depth           20"

Well I had to purchase my computer fairly quickly due to total collapse of my lappy. The ram is fairly slow with Sims2 at 512 ram (will be upgrading as soon as possible) .  Im fairly happy with the processor, although I know very little about AMD Athlon 64 3800+  at 2.4 ghz   160gb storage  and Ive never heard of this video card although it does appear to support the higher graphics in sims2  nividia geforce 6150 le (low end?) turbo cache 256mb,  (cinematics run in slow motion-interesting effect in some scenes).  I was going to have one built but... so I ended up with a HP Compaq pressario sr2013wm.  IM thinking the extra ram will speed things up a bit or should I also check out another video card?

LOL That's a beauty!

Kewian, that card is the typical integrated one you get with a desktop from HP/Compaq and Gateway these days. I'd replace it, but I suspect you need RAM more. The processor is fine (is it an X2? If so, that's the processor I have), and you already know you need some more RAM. :-)

Well the ram is coming first.. Im considering going all the way up to 2 gb.  What would be a good replacement for the video card though.  I know this is a walmart buy .. I had to have something and most of these specs looked good to me.  I saw a radeon 8200 but Im not sure about that one.

Kewian, this site might be of help:  http://buy.ati.com/productinfo/ua/index.asp

ATI's upgrade advisor was helpful when I was looking for a new card.  Once you find out what card(s) will work, then you can go shopping on Egghead, etc.

The good news is that you have a PCI-E slot, so basically the only limit is how much do you want to spend on the video card?  ;) You can pick up a card more than good enough to play TS2 properly for $100 these days on Newegg.com.

The bad news is that your motherboard only has 2 slots for RAM, so if you want 2 GB, you're going to have to buy 2 1GB sticks.  ::) I looked your model # up on HP.com

Thats what I noticed..I couldnt find my bobo (cheap) computer on that site so it was hard to tell which one would be right.  I was wondering about the ram sticks. I thought it would be like that...thanks for answering that question.

HP doesn't let you do direct links to the support pages, but if you plug pressario sr2013wm into  this page  (http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/support.html?pageDisplay=support) and then click Product Information, you can access all you need to know about your computer except power supply- none of the manufacturer's give that info  :-\. The motherboard specs page even gives you nice pictures and a diagram of where everything is. With some help, your computer won't be half bad, at least not for awhile, it just has that little problem with the RAM- and if it weren't for TS2, you'd be fine with the 512 it came with. Unless you want to upgrade to Vista, 2GB of RAM will serve you, though, and for video card, I'd probably give it a Radeon x800 or Nvidia 7600 and it would be fine. For a Walmart buy, it will serve a couple years.  :)

HP is stupid and only has 256 mb ram for it.  I know I have found 1 and 2 gb out there at newegg. What gives with Hp holding me back? :P

LOL They'd overcharge you for it anyway!

Your motherboard supports:     *   Two 240-pin DDR2 DIMM sockets
    * Supports PC 4200 (533 MHz) and PC2 5300 (667 MHz) DDR2 DIMMs
    * non-ECC memory only, unbuffered
    * Maximum HP/Compaq approved memory is 2 GB


I'd suggest  this one  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227076) or  this one if you can find it in stock  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820227045)  OCZ makes beautiful RAM,it has the lowest latencies around, and a real lifetime guarantee- just don't take the sticker off, and if it dies at any time, they will replace it with almost no questions asked. I had a stick that was bad when I got it, despite it passing at the store as well as them,  and once I said it failed MemTest, that was the end of the discussion. And since they are local to me, I didn't even have to ship it to them, they let me exchange it in person. If they don't have the exact model in stock, they upgrade you. And they don't route you to India either, but that will probably change as they get bigger and more popular.  :(  But I'm all for rewarding good customer service while it lasts.

fionghuala, did I miss where you mentioned a price?

With tax/shipping/extra warranty on the system and a monitor/speakers/headphones ( my choice on the extras) it came in at under 2700.
Spec'd out with a lot less bells and whistles, I came up with 3500 + and don't even ask what it would have cost at alienware or dell.
I would've needed a second mortgage!

fionghuala: your new rig looks fantastic, but being the pessimistic bastard I am (others call me killjoy too!), I'm a bit concerned about your power supply unit. 500W may be more than enough if the power supply unit (PSU) is of good quality, but your random, no-name PSUs will hardly pump out that juice. Careful with that.
As for monitors, I'm a huge fan of CRT monitors (you know, the good old "boxes"), but those are sadly becoming extinct. If you can find a Samsung 997MB (19in CRT), go for it ASAP! You won't regret it!

I wound up with a flat screen Lcd, the crt's were actually higher. We currentl have a computer by the same maker,
 and its a real workhorse. 3 + years without so much as a hiccup. If anyone is buying a system, I highly recommend
this maker.We had hp's and gateways and a sell in the house before this one, and it seemed like around a year and
they start throwing fits and breaking down.
I'll keep an eye on the power supply, if it looks like an issue, its an easy replacement. I've also been told I may want
to add a fan or 2 as that video card runs loud and hot. Again an easy add-on if needed.

Thanks for all the advice folks!

Did you actually mention who the maker was, fionghuala?   ???
Might like to have a look!

Its a systemax, which I purchased through tigerdirect.com
I got it and had a problem, ( looks to not be the manufacturer's fault, looks like ups dropped the box and did some damage)
And I had to return it for replacement. Major disapointment. But I can say their customer support was fantastic, The tech had me crawling around inside my pc and pulling and reattaching wires. He didn't talk down to me, (unlike gateway, which acted as though since I was female, I obviously couldn't know anything about pcs) and a big plus, I actually was talking to someone who's native language was the same as mine. So no weird communication issues.
They had ups at my door the next day, they picked it up and sent it back, I should get a new one in about 2 weeks with shipping time.
They didn't want to repair this one, since it had been damaged so their rebuilding a new one.

The main problem you're going to run up against in that computer is playing TS2 with Nvidia drivers.  :-\ If you only play TS2, that would work out, because you can just run on older drivers, but new games want new drivers, and then you'll have to make a choice.

My other concerns are mainly just personal preferences- the  Duos run cooler,faster, and using less power than the Turion processors do-I read all those benchmarks and reviews over the summer when I was shopping for a laptop- and at this point, the additional power you get from running with dual video cards is negligible compared to the price difference. *shrug*

FYI: Alienware isn't the only place to go for that kind of laptop.  Hypersonic  (http://www.hypersonic-pc.com/2001/index.asp) is where I will go one day. But they aren't any cheaper than Alienware. No one is, at that level.

Ugh, In honor of Seasons. I am finally upgading.


I have 1gb ram now (2 x 512 mb) I am thinking about gettingI currently have a geforce 5200 fx 256 mb. Epox Ep-8hda5+ Board.
420w power supply.

I am thinking about making the jump to 3 gb (max board can hold) but am curious how it would work if i just get and additional 1 gb stick with the 2 -512s.

Also looking at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102071 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102071)
SAPPHIRE 100171L Radeon X1950PRO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 AGP 4X/8X HDCP Video Card

Any comments.

You must have an older mobo, so your RAM doesn't (usually) need to be "balanced" like if you had a dual channel system. Obviously, if its max is 3 GB.  ;) 2 GB should be enough, however, unless you've done something insane and gotten Vista.

As for the card, it's an awesome card, but what processor do you have? TS2 relies heavily on the processor, in addition to the RAM and card, and I'd hate for you to spend $200+ on a new card, only to have the processor hold you back from experiencing its potential. Not when you could spend less on an older card and still get improvement.

amd athlong 64 3400 processor

Carry on, then.  :D

i was planning on upgrading to 3 gb when i do video. will that totall kick ass or what lol

Okay, so I've started thinking seriously about upgrading my compy.  It's a Dell Dimension 8200, about five years old (dinosaur!), but it was top of the line when I bought it and is still not a bad computer (I run TS2 at almost all highest graphic quality settings with serious lag only occurring on community lots and when the game has been running for more than several hours).
Specs:
-Pentium 4 processor - 1.90 GHz
-1.00 gig RAM
-Two 120 gig hard drives (these are new; last year my original hard drive suffered a BFBVFS (it was tragic))
-NVIDIA GeForce3 (and I actually *haven't* had any major problems - am I like the only person to say that?)

I have the sinking suspicion that this won't be good enough anymore once I install Seasons.  I'm rather strapped for cash right now, so if I could isolate the biggest potential problem and focus on upgrading that, I would be a happy camper.  (This is why I'm not really considering buying a new computer)  I figured that the folks here are the best ones to go to for advice.

Also, I would like to educate myself more about computer hardware.  Does anyone have any advice in that regard? 

Any comments welcome - Thanks!

I think the biggest problem you'll have with Seasons is your video card. You could use some more RAM, but right now your card is the biggest problem. You probably have an AGP slot, right? The only thing I'm concerned about is that to run a modern video card, you need a bigger power supply than a 5 yr old Dell will have, and Dells of that era came with proprietary power supplies that can't be replaced easily, at least not without also getting an adaptor.  :-\ By the time you're done with the card, the power supply, the adaptor, and you really could use more RAM, you'll be a long, long way towards a new computer. *sigh* If you're honestly strapped for cash, it would be a shame to waste it on a video card that makes your computer run worse (if you replace the card and not the power supply, you'll be likely to have all kinds of crashing/freezing problems) or RAM that just won't make any difference. Especially when neither of those things will be able to be salvaged if you decide to have a new computer built.  The best advice I have is to wait to buy Seasons until you can get a new computer that will play it.  :( I know, not what you want to hear, but I hate to send people out to spend money for no good reason.

PC Power & Cooling makes PSUs for Dell.  www.pcpowercooling.com/


Edited to add following question:  Does anyone have recommendations for disk imaging software?  In particular, any experience with Acronis?

Argh.  You're right, not what I wanted to hear lol.

But I went ahead and bought seasons, figuring that if it didn't run I could return it, and it actually runs great (it helps that I'm playing a medieval hood with only a fraction of my normal cc lol).  It slows down a lot when loading a neighborhood or lot, but once it comes up there are no problems.  And the graphics are spectacular!  I've seen some people complaining about not seeing the fish in the ponds, but they definitely show in my game. 

I know it doesn't make sense, because my card is so old, but everything in my computer was top of the line when I bought it and I guess they're still pretty good. *shrug* 

I'm probably approaching max capacity, though.  The next EP might be the last on this system.  :-\

I have Acronis.  :) Not that I ever remember to back up my system, and I've never had to actually use the image I did make, but I have it.  :D It was easy to use, though. (Okay, not terribly helpful, I admit.)

Helpful enough, as I've been reading bad reviews on Symantec's Ghost.

GAH!  I HATE Symantec!  I have Ghost on my computer, and it works... somehow... but it was only by dint of a miracle that it installed.  My dad couldn't get it to work on his computer at all.  When he contacted tech support (this was before they started charging for it) they told him (I swear to God I'm not making this up):

"The problem is that your drives aren't mounted."

... oooookay.....

Can't they at least give my dad a PLAUSIBLE lie about why their software is broken?

Its tax time again, and I am going try to have a new computer built for me.  At a local "Computer Solutions" store, I received the following quote and would sure appreciate an opinion on it.  :)

Intel 965 Motherboard (Integrated Video/Sound/NIC) . . .( NIC ??? )
3.2 GHz Celeron D/533 Mhz
1 GB DDR2 533 MHz RAM . . . (does this mean 1 gb of memory or 533?? soo confusing  ::))
250 GB S-ATA II WD 7200 RPM 16 MB HD . . . (does this mean 250 gb of hard drive space, if so, what does the 16 MB for?)
16x Dual Layer DVD Burner w/ software
Windows XP Home
Microsoft Keyboard and mouse
Antec 640TX 400W case . . . (is this the power supply?)

Price ..........................$799.00 plus tax Canadian

Of course they advised adding the following:

CPU . . .  2.13 GHz Core 2 Duo / 2 MB . . . . $266.00
RAM . . . 2 GB KVR . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .$99.00
Graphic Card . . . Sapphire X1650 XT 256 MB . . . $204.00

all plus taxes

Subtotal of $1,368.00 plus taxes of course

With the 3.2 GHz Celeron D, I assume that is single core and they want me to upgrade to a duo-core?

Thanks so much!  :D

NIC = Network Interface Card, the ethernet card you use to connect to your home network (cable/DSL/whatever).


1GB of memory; the 533MHz is the memory chip's speed, which is important to know if you're going to add more later on.

The 16MB is either the data transfer rate or the pre-fetch memory on the HD -- I'm not sure about that one.

As for the rest, yes, go for the extra ram and the better video cards.  The Celeron is probably single core and they are advising you to get a dual core.  If you can afford it, the full system doesn't sound bad.

*DrBeast waves hi to Joe
Yep, the Celeron IS single core and it might also be one of the worst CPUs Intel ever released! The Core2Duo, on the other hand, seems to bash the competition to smithereens, so yeah, I'd DEFINITELY go for it! And the extra RAM and graphics card, too. BUT...


Yes, this is the power supply, which ships with the case if I'm not mistaken, and it's quite ok for the system without the extras. If you do add in the extras, however, especially the graphics card, you will need a better power supply, something of better quality and wattage than the one supplied. My choice would be a Tagan in the 500-550W area, (don't think Tagan is that common in the American continent though) as I don't value Antec all that much...seem to be hit or miss deals.

ETA: just noticed this:

It's buffer cache size  ;)

I wouldn't even consider a Celeron for a gaming machine. I think they're probably marketed as a budget chip mostly suitable for people who only use their computers for reading email, browsing the Net, and writing the occasional Word document, and who want a bargain basement price tag on their computer.

When I was researching parts for my build two years ago, the Antec PSU's had very good reviews. I bought an Antec 480W PurePower 2.0 and haven't had any complaints about it at all.

Celeron is the Skoda of the computing world. I think Durons are the AMD equivalent.

I had some questions, which remain unanswered, that I posted here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,7233.msg210988.html#msg210988)  Rather than reposted, I thought I'd just link. :P


Also... with regards to PSUs, someone gave me this great link (http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108088).  It provides a heirarchical breakdown of PSUs.  I personally don't know how reliable this categorization is... but the people involved seem very knowledgeable and somewhat trustworthy. :D


Ste

Yes, both are fine for business machines, that just have to do email and Office apps, but basically worthless for anything else.

FYI, I think that the X1650 is a tad over priced.  You can get better cards (X1950) at newegg for around the same price.

I got my NVidia 7900GT for less than that (after rebate).

Here is a list of better ATI cards. (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Category=38&N=2010380048+1069609641+1068309611+1305520549+1068109605&Submit=ENE&SrchInDesc=Memory+Interface%3A+256%2Dbit&SubCategory=48)

If you're willing to spend $200+ on a graphics card, then you might as well get more bang for your buck.  I'm sure that, even with the shipping charges to Canada, it would be definitely more than worth ordering from newegg than the card you are being offered.

Ste

Canadians can't order from newegg.

Kellinjar did send me a message today, though, that he saw the x1950 Pro for $241 cdn somewhere, however.

I've been checking http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/03/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/
every month. They recommend the x1950PRO in that price range.

My GeForce 6600GT graphics card crapped out last night while I was reading this board. Computer shut down, I tried to reboot and saw a spark, and there's now a singed spot on the graphics card. Better the card than the motherboard, since I've been planning to upgrade the graphics card for some time now. I was hoping to last until the ATI R600 series came out, but the release keeps getting pushed back, and now I can't wait any longer.

Looking at either a 8800GTS (downside buggy drivers and potential headaches with the Sims, but, other than the GTX, it is the one card at the top of the graphics heap right now) or a Radeon X1950XT (fewer problems with the Sims and cheaper, but I'll probably have to upgrade it sooner). I really want to play Oblivion at top settings, so I'm leaning painfully towards the 8800GTS.

Aww... that is teh sux0rz... well... Canadians should just have some US friends order it for them and ship it to Canada.  It will still probably ultimately be cheaper. :P


I didn't want to go the extra distance for the 8800Gx series.  I settled for 7900GT.  It's certainly more than the recommended 3 tiers higher than my current card (5960 FX or whatever).  Heh.  I was considering the ATI... but, I eventually want to do some non Sim gaming, so I thought I would stick with Nvidia, and just cross my fingers and hope for the best. :P  I haven't had problems really with my Nvidia and the Sims 2 yet *knocks on wood* so here's hoping.

Anyhew, it looks like my computer parts have all been deliverd, FINALLY! So YAY! I will probably toy around with building my new machine tonight and tomorrow. WHeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :D

Ste

I remember what that felt like the xmas before last. I drove to the next city to get the parts. The guy said, 'why didn't you have them couriered?' It had never even occurred to me. I don't think I would have trusted anyone to deliver me the bits! I was shaking with excitement the next day, laid everything out ready in their little boxes, checked all the cables. Read RTFMs, touched things lovingly. Hah, I'm not a nerd.

When my computer went down last night and wouldn't boot, part of my brain was thinking 'oh no my motherboard is gone' and part of my brain was thinking 'yay my motherboard is gone'. I keep looking at the dual core processors and putting together an upgrade list, but Intel dual core currently blows AMD dual core out of the water, so a new (Intel) processor and new motherboard would inevitably lead to new RAM and probably a new power supply ... and I really try to make each new computer last 3-4 years. I've got another year to go with the current rig, at least.

Much better having to replace the graphics card.

I'm going to shout myself a laptop this year, I have to go away several times for a few days at a time and I get so bored without gaming. I've been an AMD fan for years, but I'll probably go Intel core duo at the moment, because, as you say, Intel are currently fastest. In fact they came out with their core duo about 3-4 months after I bought my AMD dual core. (Of course).

Thank you sooo much everyone for your suggestions, I don't know what I'd do without your awesome help!  I will be getting my own tech person to put together a system for me, not a local store as I can't trust their prices and over exuberent sales pitches!

Okay so here's what I've gathered from your notes, the Intel 965 Motherboard (Integrated Video/Sound/NIC) part is okay?

The 3.2 GHz Celeron D/533 Mhz is not as good as the Celeron single core, but the duo core Celeron could be the way to go, or go with a single core Duron or AMD equivalent.

In reference to the 1 GB DDR2 533 MHz RAM, thank you jsalemi for the info, and I would definitely be adding another 1 gb of Memory to that!  :D

The 250 GB S-ATA II WD 7200 RPM 16 MB HD, seems like a good size hard drive and I can always add another later on, if or when we get close to the 8th? expansion pack for the Sims2!!  ::)

As for the Antec 640TX 400W case, I figured this would not be sufficient especially for upgrading the graphic card, which would most likely be the Sapphire X1650 XT (or PRO) 256 MB, at a much more reasonable price of course!

So the Antec 480W PurePower 2.0  or higher would be a good choice?

I just really want to make sure I get the right stuff the first time, especially with the ever increasing graphics of the upcoming expansion packs.  I'd like to at least make it compatible for 3 to 4 years!  ;D

Forget the word Celeron. Celerons bad. Intel Core 2 Duo's (or even a Solo) good.  ;) An AMD X2 would also be okay, but not as good as an Intel Duo.

If you're looking at 3-4 years use, you really should consider the x1900 or x1950, though.

Of course I have a Celeron!   ::)

Hi!

I am attempting to upgrade my video card. I would like to buy the best card that I can that my processor can handle. I have a 550 watt power supply. I have a 2.6 and 2 gigs of ram. 80 gig hard drive.

I am looking to spend a maximum of $200.00.

Would someone please advise me on what to buy?

Thank You!

Edited to say I have a PCI slot.

Edit   I am looking at either an Ati 1300 or an  x1550 pro (both 256 memory). The 1300 is on the list of supported cards, the x1550 is not. Does that matter?

I hope you mean you have an PCI-E slot, not plain PCI.
Maximum $200...hm...Here's a few suggestions: do you play other games besides TS2? If yes and extensively, then go for an nVidia 7600GT, truly amazing mid-range card for about $130-$150 (depends on the manufacturer). If you're a sims-fanatic, ATi is the road to follow. For about $160-$190 you get an X1950Pro. Of course the Celery will act like a handbrake with regards to processing power, but at least you'll have a pretty fine card when you decide to get rid of it and get a decent processor *nudge nudge hint hint*
If you don't plan on upgrading the CPU any time soon, I think a cheaper graphics card is in order...for about $90-$100 you can get either an nVidia 7600GS (one step down from the GT) or a Radeon X1650Pro or even X1650XT (in Radeon models, XTs are better than Pro). Downside is, most of those cards in this price range will have the slower DDR2 memory instead of the faster DDR3 the more expensive models carry, but still the bottleneck will remain your Celery.


Nope.

ETA to syberspunk: sorry for leaving your questions unanswered bud, but I don't check in here that often any more as you might know, and by the time I checked in again your thread was already reeking of decomposition, buried somewhere along Page 2 and 3  ::) Oh, and you had already ordered the parts  ;D

Yes, it is a PCI. I bought this computer before I knew any better. Next year I am building my own gaming pc. For now, though, I need to upgrade a little or my eyes will start to bleed!
Actually, Sims plays fairly well. Just very, very ugly.

Thanks! I think I will go with the 1300/ 256. I hope it helps!

/me has mental images of witch gently fondleing her power cords and caressing her various computer parts, holding them up to cheek.

Lol :D


As for the rest of you:

@twisingsims:

kate has it right, forget Celeron. Celeron is JUNK!  It is totally not worth it, unless you are like super dirt po' and really can't afford a REAL processor, and/or it is an Emergency, and you really need a cheap computer NOW.  Otherwise, as Pescado says, sell your ass until you can scrape up enough loot to be a REAL processor. :P

Also... I would bump up to the x19N0 series (1900, 1950, or 1950 PRO, etc.), if at all possible.  As Beasty says, it's worth the extra.  And since you're bothering to build your new compy from scratch, I think the extra 30-50$ is totally worth it.  If you're going NVidia, then I also agree, and say the 7600GX to the 79N0 GX is the way to go.

Finally... once you've selected your mobo and graphics card, check the specs for each to see what the power requirement is.  The higher end cards require more power.  480W seems decent, but I've seen some specs of more powerful cards say at least 500W.


@Akharra:

Ack, you only have a PCI slot?  If you're computer is that old, you should check if you have an AGP slot.  AGP is definitely better/faster than PCI.  I think older computers at least had AGP slots.  My old machine is about 4 years old, I got it from Best Buy, and it has an AGP slot.  So... I would hope that, if you got your machine later than that, you should have an AGP slot.  On my old mobo, the AGP slot was brown and the PCI slots are white.

Most of the prices that people report here are probably PCI-E cards.  AGP cards are more expensive.  I'm not sure about regular ole PCI cards... but I would think PCI is probably crap in comparison, so the extra cost for AGP would still be better.  Unfortunately, an AGP card would most likely limit your upgradeability, as newer mobos don't seem to have AGP slots anymore.  And even tho newer mobos do still have regular ole PCI slots, you would be better off getting a PCI-E card anyways.  So... it seems that, no matter what card you get now, it probably won't help as much in the future for your next machine. :-/

@DrBeast:

Oh poop! Well... even though I did purchase the items, I had other questions about building the machine itself.  But oh wells... I ended up putting the OS on the SATA drive.  Hopefully, by week's end, I'll be back up and running, playing Seasons on my shiny new PC. :D

Ste

syberspunk:

Definatly a PCI only...sigh!

Next year at tax time, I should have about $1,000.00 - $1,500.00 to spend on a new gaming rig. I have 3 pc's at the moment (old, older, and oldest). I figure I can use it somewhere. This is just to tide me over. Thanks for the advice!

My eyes bleed just by reading that!


You might be interested in this X1550 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814103031) if you're in the States (judging by the times you post, it looks like you're in North America scratch that, Forum Time went bonkers on me again  :P). With the rebate and all, it's a pretty good deal. Otherwise, I think $100+ for a bloody PCI card is a waste of money. You'd be better off with a plain old Radeon 9250 for a little over $50 (like this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102533)) and an ample supply of artificial tears  ;D

Was it you looking in my window then!

I've got a question about Hard Drives, a commonly overlooked component in PCs.

I currently use a 100GB 5200RPM SATA HDD in my notebook, and I recently got a 500GB 7200RPM Western Digital External HDD with 16MB Cache.  I'm wondering If I'll take a speed hit by running the game off of the external since it has to go through a USB 2.0 connection.

Well, I thought I might ask some advice from the resident people-who-know-what-they're-talking-about crowd. :)

I purchased a new video card today and am just waiting until Monday to get in installed on my CPU (I know absolutely nothing about installing hardware beyond that one time I added some RAM, so I figured I'd let the experts handle it). My question: will my CPU (more specifically, my processor) be able to handle it?

I'm pretty sure this (http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=V6600-512PI&cat=VCD) is the card I bought (although the box looks utterly different, but that might be due to the fact that I bought it in Canada?). Here are my system specs:

Processor: AMD Sempron 2800+, MMX, 3DNow, ~2.0 GHz
Current Video Card: VIA/S3G Unichrome IGP

If any other info is needed, please let me know. I seem to recall J.M. Pescado saying to me a while ago that my processor would be the problem with handling any sort of upgrades to my CPU, but can't quite recall what was suggested.  :-[

O.K. I bought and installed an Ati x1300. The graphics are alot better! But, I still cannot play a 3x3 lot with four people and two dogs. No trees/shrubs/plants. No pool. No pond. Gameplay is slow and choppy.

I have 1024 gigs of ram...should I throw in another gig? I downloaded Cacheman XP and when I am on my lot I have about 200mb of ram left.

I have a little over 1 gig of cc. Very few clothes and hair. Is this the problem? 

I kow Celerons suck. It is a 2.6. Is this the bottleneck?

I am at a loss here. I have done everything I know to do. I shut down all security and background tasks. I defragged. I have 19 gigs of free space left. All graphics settings are set on "performance".

I have Xp, would creating a seperate account just for Sims help much?

I am stuck with this system for another year. It does play other games well. Morowind with all expansions, Black & White 2, Star Wars Jedi Academy and Empire at War, Sim City Deluxe. But it plays Sim Stories choppy, too.

If anyone has any suggestions or advice, I would greatly appreciate it. I love this stupid game.  ;D

Another gig of RAM will help somewhat, but really, you're probably processor-bound at this point.

Figures!  ::)

How difficult and expensive would it be to get a new processor? Is it even possible?

I don't think the Celeron motherboards are upgradeable; you'd have to get a whole new motherboard, with support chips for the new processor.

Thanks! I have a 550watt power supply, a decent video card...maybe I will just try and buy a PC with all that in it and install my power supply & vid card into that.

I appreciate your help. It's a good thing I like to do research, huh? This game will turn me into a computer pro before this is over!

Again, Thanks!

I found this hardware guide to the Sims 2 to be very informative (it was written for the base game):

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6133243/index.html?type=tech

The Sims 2 is very CPU intensive.

I' ll go take a look. Thanks!

Son of a ....  :-X

I went to pick up my CPU with the upgraded card I specified earlier only to find that it didn't fit; I have something referred to as AGP instead of PCI Express. >=( So I had to purchase a lesser video card (I think it's a GeForce 5500 256Mb or something like that). What's even worse is that once I finally got my CPU home and hooked it back up, I couldn't get a signal on my monitor. Those fuckers! Now I have to wait an additional two dsays to get anything done about it (and possibly more, since they didn't seem to have anymore AGP video cards in the store). Sometimes I rue the day that I ever owned a computer. *sighs dramatically*

On a related note, could someone kindly tell me if they think my processor (Sempron 2800+ for those who didn't read my earlier post) is upgradable? Depending upon the cost (and feasibility of it, naturally), I may go for upgrading that first before I get more RAM.

I'm sure there are people here who know more about computer hardware than I do, but I think the key may be what upgrades your motherboard can support. My motherboard is made by Gigabyte, and when I go to their website and check out my specific model number I can get a list of supported processors for the board (I can upgrade to an AMD dual core x4800 max, and I'll have to make sure I get a socket 939 processor, because most of the AMD dual core processors are now made for the newer AM2 type boards). If you bought the computer from a regular manufacturer, like Dell, you can probably go to their website and find out what upgrades are available for your system.

Denimjo....Are you upgrading from Intel integrated graphics? I had the same problem. I had to take out the new video card, turn my pc back on and disable the onboard graphics. Turn the pc back off, install the new video card, and my monitor got a signal again. Read the troubleshooting tips on the cd that came with the card for more detailed instructions. Took about 10 minutes. I hope that's what's wrong as it is easy to fix. Good Luck!

To be honest, I have no idea if I had Intel integrated graphics or not. I'm too afraid to go messing around with the innards of my computer if I don't know what I'm doing, so I'm brining it back into Staples today to get them to fix it (which they can't do until tomorrow :rage:), but I'll be sure to ask them to give that a try. Thanks for the advice!

Denimjo: I've had that problem when I set my resolution and refresh rate higher than my cheap CRT monitor can handle. Just because the card supports a high resolution doesn't mean the monitor does. I never knew that until I had it happen.

And there are better AGP cards than the FX5500. They tend to be more expensive than the PCI-E cards of the same model and aren't as good since AGP is slower, but there are better choices out there.

As for the Sempron... maybe. You need to find out what socket you have. It's not hard to find 939 socket processors (annoying, because I want the price to come down to replace my x2 with a faster one! LOL) You can even find Socket A processors, if you look around.

*finally gets CPU back*

0_0

My God! The Sims...they actually have fingers! And eyes...I can actually see their eye colors now! *swoons* This is amazing!

For the time being, this video card is a godsend to me. I'll probably just get a better card in a year or so when I save up enough money for an entirely new CPU altogether, but for now...'tis magnifique!

I didn't know that either. It's good to know that now, though, as now that I actually have an icon where I can adjust the video card settings, I'll now know not to set the refresh rate too high (it's currently on the lowest setting).

And Katenigma, I only went with that card because it was the only AGP video card they had in stock (either better or worse than my previous card). And apparently, the only reason it wasn't working the first time was that I failed to notice that I needed to plug the monitor into the new socket. *blushes profusely* This would be an example of my complete and utter ignorance of computer hardware. :(

Thank you everyone for your kind words and assistance! *blows kisses at everyone*

Okay.  I've come into a bit of money and looking to build a whole new PC.  Because Season is just kicking this Sempron's ass.

I've been looking around on Newegg and found some combo deals with a case/motherboard + an Intel Core 2 Duo.

Here's the combos:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductCombos.aspx?Item=N82E16856110071&SubCategory=3&SortField=0&PageSize=10&page=1

I'm trying to make this as cheap as possible.  Would I see a big enough difference in performance between the 1.8GHz and 2.4GHz Core 2 Duos to justify the $100+ difference?

Keep in mind I still need a video card, ram, and hard drive.  I've pretty much settled on an ATI X1950XT, which is gonna run another $200.

I'm also looking for at least 2 gigs of RAM and at least a 150 gig hard drive.  But I haven't compared prices on those yet.

And don't worry about the 250 watt power supply that comes with the case.  I have a 450 watt power supply in the one I'm using now that'll be swapped out.

Ok... fess up... who did you kill/rob? :P


Linky no worky.  Server go splodie?


In my limited experience doin research and what not, I would say yes.  U could split the difference tho and get the 2.13 GHz.  That's the one I ended up getting and it is speedy as a mofo afaik.  I am quite happy with my purchase.  If you want more info, go to tomshardware and read up on processors.


Hrm. I'd shop around.  I'm pretty sure I read at tomshardware, you can get a good X1950 for under $200.


That should all be cheap and relatively easy.



Check the specs on whatever video card you are getting and make sure 450 will be sufficient.

Ste

I've seen good x1950's on NEWEGG that only cost $145 after rebate.  The prices may drop more at any minute, as soon as ATI releases their DX10 cards. The minimum requirement for an X1950 Pro is a 450w PSU.... so depending on how good your PSU is, and how many other things you're putting into it, you may want to consider replacing it, too.

Duh...dead link for me too


Nah, go for the cheaper one...they overclock like devils anyway! Or better yet, follow Ste's advice...and overclock it! Core2Duos just beg to be overclocked!


Sound choice...I approve!


Sample prices for hard disks:
160GB: $63
250GB: $75
320GB: $90
All Western Digitals SATA II 16MB buffer from newegg. I'd personally go for either 250 or 320 GB.

RAMs:
Bleh...newegg's acting up on me, might try later.

(Later)

Ok, here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcompare.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010170147%201052108080%201052308477%204017&bop=And&CompareItemList=N82E16820227118%2CN82E16820145167%2CN82E16820231018%2CN82E16820609026%2CN82E16820145015%2CN82E16820231087%2CN82E16820231114) are some sample RAMs that I find price-worthy. They're all 2 GB DDR2 dual-channel kits, with tight timings and a variety of speeds to choose from. Cost ranges from $141 to $194.


Like katenigma said, your PSU might be pushed to its limits just by the CPU/graphics card combo alone. Get a decent 500-550W one to be sure.

Errr, I'm very sorry to return to this topic, but I have a question for those more knowledgeable than I. In the game, the new graphics card works great; however, I notice that when I go to watch some anime videos that I've downloaded, although the first one displays just fine, any subsequent ones played after that are displayed with the video entirely green.  ??? What the hell? Is this a graphics card issue or a screen resolution problem? Current resolution is at 1045 x 768. To restate, the video card is a GeForce FX 5500.

Hmmm... what player are you using to watch the videos? And can you watch different ones, as long as they're first, but not ones after that? 

Windows Media Player 11, and that's correct. It doesn't matter what video it is; I can watch the first one, but any others in the playlist suddenly turn lime green.

Try WinAmp or VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/).

I've got VLC, great. :) Edited to add, though, that the greenness seems to be sporadic. For instance, with this certain video, if I try to play only it, it turns green right away, but if I add a video after it, it plays just fine. It's the darndest thing.  ???

Hmm...
Since MPC is essentially the same thing as Windows Media Player when it comes to video, VMR9 is probably where the problems are coming from in that case.  Don't know about VLC having that problem, it shouldn't even use VMR since it's not a DirectShow player.

Just a wild guess, but easy enough to check out. You might try checking to see that the cables are firmly seated. My monitor goes off color unless I have the monitor cable very firmly plugged in at the back of the case.  A loose connection somewhere could cause sporadic color changes.

Most of us read the article when it came out, and they make some valid points, but they also overlooked some things. The main one being vsync. The reason all the cards tested at the same frame rate is because of vsync. Turn it off with the cheat, and suddenly the more powerful cards getter better frame rates than the crap ones. They also never tested on the larger lots with more than 2 Sims, a party, etc.

Yes, but there's no real practical benefit to doing this, as you cannot physically see higher frame rates anyway.

Is there a particular reason it has to be a Dell? Your money would go a lot further at HP. If it's because of their financing, you might want to reconsider. With the interest Dell charges, paying the minimum, your computer will be in a landfill before you are done paying for it. You'd be better off just putting it on a credit card.

Also, what is the confusion, exactly?

If I were building today, I'd include an Intel Core 2 duo, at least 2 GB RAM (more if you want to run Vista. As far as I'm concerned, being able to buy XP is a good reason to go with Dell!) and an ATI Radeon 1950 Pro (if money was no object,an XTX instead of Pro). I would not, under any circumstances, get a GeForce video card. There has been nothing but problems with their drivers and TS2 for over a year now, and even if you don't get their new DX10 cards, their drivers have been having problems with all kinds of other programs.  By fall, ATI should have their DX10 cards out too, but if it were me, I'd just take advantage of the price drop the DX9 cards will have, especially since nothing is really using it yet, anyway.

And those scanners are notoriously wrong. Anyone who only recommends 512MB RAM is wrong before it even scans your system.  ;)

Don't buy brand name computers, period. And DX10 is pretty meaningless, as nothing uses it and it's currently incompatible with XP. And Vista still sucks, as people in #grah are presently having issues with getting simple programs to run with it.

Right, I'm planning to build myself a pretty nice desktop as I have come into a bit of money.

I have decided to go with the X1950 XTX as I have found this at £229.90 (although it is currently out of stock).  In terms of the processor I will be going for a Intel Core Duo.  I am currently undecided between the E6600 at £226 or the E6400 at £153.  PCPro magazine describes the E6400 as the best buy in terms of both money and power however when I've calculated the cost of everything else, if I can afford it, I will go for the E6600.  I will start with 2GB of RAM because I want an XP OS rather than vista and I'm sure I read somewhere that XP won't use any more than about 3GB of RAM. 

Anyway onto the actual question, can anyone recommend a good motherboard as it is these that I have the least knowledge about.  Are there any particular makes I should stay away from?  Also the same issue with a monitor, I'm not really sure what manufacturers are good or what I should be looking for.  Any advice would be gratefully received.

Edit - I've been looking around and was thinking of this for a motherboard http://specialtech.co.uk/spshop/customer/product.php?productid=2972&cat=319&page=1.  Any good?  Anything I should be wary of?  Also is there any difference in quality between Gigabyte and Asus?  I checked Gigabyte's website and the P965 DS3P is compatible with the E6400 and the E6600.   

2nd edit - Ignore the CPU prices above (they were taken from an out of date magazine).  I've found the E6600 for £152.74 (VAT incl) and the E6400 for £140.99.  Which definately makes me want to go for the E6600.

3rd edit - I am not sure whether this is right but because I want the X1950 XTX does that mean I need Intel 975X (Socket 775) Motherboard (or similar) and does it mean that the P965 DS3P would not be compatible?

Right now, most Intel boards only are compatible with SLI and most AMD boards with Crossfire. Which is pretty inconvenient, if you ask me.  >:( However, when I was researching it a couple months ago, there was talk that some companies were working on a board that could do either.

If you're only going to use one video card, then it doesn't make a difference. But like me, you're probably looking to future upgrades.

I am probably going to get just the one card now but I would like the option to upgrade and take advantage of the crossfire technology at a later date.

I have found this board http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-108-AB that is an Intel and supports Crossfire too.  The reviews are pretty good too.  Oh and this one http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-020-DF which is a much better price.  Maybe the tide is turning :) 

Yeah, I think I'd looked at the Abit. :) I sure hope the tide is turning, with the problems Nvidia has been having with drivers.

I have just seen an incredible deal for a Intel Core 2 Quad Pro Q6600 "LGA775 Kentsfield" 2.40GHz at only £149.99 and I am sorely tempted.  I was going to purchase an Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 for £120 so i am wondering whether having a Quad would make much difference to Sims playing.  I am thinking it probably won't as the E6600 will severely reduce any lag in a new system.  Also [stupid question alert] the motherboards I have been looking at are Core 2 Duo compatible, I'm thinking that these would not be compatible with a quad core, am I right?

Well, even if Sims can't benefit from more than one or two cores, that still means at least you'll have extra cores free to do all the other stupidly disguised things you might want to do.

That is a very good point, I'm glad I thought of it :P

Perhaps you can consult Argon on that.  He seems to have some expert knowledge regarding cores and such.

Quick question though... but it was my understanding that... in general, you would only be able to take advantage of multiple cores if you use programs that are... well... programmed to take advantage of multiple cores. :P i.e. the programs can do hyper threading and such and such... which, I vaguely recall being told that seems to be limited to only a handful of programs right now.  Yes? No?

I could be sorely mistaken, and if so, I gladly wouldn't mind being enlightened. ;D


Ste

That's what I have heard too, in that the majority of games are only able to make use of two cores at the most.  I suppose multiple cores would be useful if you have Sims running at the same time as other applications.  I quite often have the game running as well as a couple of browsers, IRC chats and sometimes different P2P software too.  It is my (limited ;D) understanding that the additional applications will run off the additional cores and therefore prevent lag from infiltrating the game, but I am not entirely sure.

The problem I have is that although the cost difference between the Quad and the Duo is only £30 or so, the Quad compatible mobo is an additional £30 and I think the memory will need to be DDR3 instead of DDR2.  So it seems like the knock on effect of having a Quad CPU will end up being more expensive for all compatible components.  Which has now made me more tempted to go with the cheaper option of the E6600 although I am greedy and want MOAR cores!

Not necessarily.  You need to check the socket type of your prospective motherboard.  It is most likely an LGA775 if you are looking at current Intel chips, which supports the Kentsfield processors just fine.  The number of cores is of little importance.  You may want to wait on buying a new processor for the moment, since Intel is on the verge of launching the 6x50 chips which will offer slight improvements over the current 6x00s.

Interesting, thanks :)  Do you know how long before they launch?  I really need to get started on my build before my laptop falls apart.

The launch is supposed to occur this month (July 22nd I believe).  However, I don't have good details on how much of the initial stock will be available for small system builders.  Generally, Dell, HP and the lot get most of the 0 day product, and consumers need to wait a bit longer. 

Of the fresh release I would be most tempted to look at the 6850 (a dual core).  It is expected to begin at around $266 (US) and I imagine NewEgg might offer some specials.  The chip comes with a stock clock of 3.0GHz, and the standard 4mb Cache.  I also expect it will overclock nicely (provided you get a decent aftermarket cooler).  The Kentsfield you mention above is not a good choice at this time, since Intel essentially slapped two dual cores on a single die which does not offer the benefits of a true quad core like the X6800.  Additionally, the benefit of a 4 cores to a gamer is small at best.  Dual core is the way to go until applications and games utilize the multiple cores (unless you absolutely must have the best, and then you would get the $1K extreme).

As to your time constraints, I would urge you to hold out as long as possible.  There is little point in buying a new processor the week before a better model hits the street. 

Thanks for the info, I will try to hold out as long as possible.  I'm sure another month or so won't hurt too much! 

I've been researching and the general consensus seems to be that quad cores are indeed no faster than dual cores unless you are running applications that use all cores simultaneously.  As TS2 is pretty much the only game I play and my only other uses would be browsing and IRC-ing, I think going with a quad would probably be overkill.

I will await the launch of the 6x50 chips with interest.

There is no overkill, only "open fire" and "I need to reload".

I've got a Western Digital Raptor 150GB 10,000 RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA150 sitting in my Newegg shopping cart. 

Anyone have any experience with this drive? 

It's probably the best value in a 10K drive on the market right now.  You will not be dissapointed.  I use WD for all my high performance drives, and will continue to do for the foreseeable future.  Just make sure you have adaquate cooling in the case since anything over 7200RPM can get pretty hot.

Thanks, B.  Am installing it in a Dell 8400; added a second fan when I switched graphics cards and replaced the PSU. 

The rig has good air circulation and is cleaned regularly, so I shouldn't have any problems.  Maybe it will help heat my den this winter.

Edited August 17, 2007, to add that I've been running the WD Raptor drive for a couple weeks and it is quite awesome.  No heat issues nor is the drive as noisy as some claim.  OS boots in less than a minute.

My raptor drive is the noisiest thing on my computer, and I still don't think it's very noisy at all.  :D Besides, I like hearing it tick- sometimes it's the only way to tell that it's doing something.

Same, as far as the Raptor drives go, personally I like to hear the chatter of the HDDs.

Just to provide some perspective, there probably isn't an IDE or SATA drive on the market as loud as your typical SCSI server drive, and I've got three 10K RPM SCSI drives in my PC. They run warm (I have a drive-bay fan) and they are comparatively loud, even at idle, but they are fast, faster than any IDE drive and, even though they are older models, faster than most if not all SATA drives. The speed advantage is more clear when more than one drive is being accessed at the same time, as the SCSI bus was designed for concurrent I/O, which the IDE/ATA bus was not.

That said, the next machine will use SATA drives, which eliminate most of the deficiencies of IDE and incorporate most of the advantages of SCSI but with lower power consumption, heat, and noise, and significantly lower prices per gigabyte. I built the core of this current machine in 1999, but while there is not a single original part other than the IBM keyboard, its transformation over time was such that sticking with the SCSI was the most cost-effective solution at those points where decisions had to be made.

For what it's worth, if I were building a new machine today, I would still opt for three hard drives. Assuming money wasn't an issue, I would choose a 10K Raptor for the boot drive and a couple mid-sized (~200-300 gig) 7200-RPM drives for apps and storage. This has to do with my particular needs. I like to keep the Windows paging file on a physical drive different from the boot drive for the small performance gain this provides. I also like to keep my applications on a separate drive from the OS for housekeeping purposes, and so that nuking the boot drive doesn't wipe all the app data (even though the apps need to be reinstalled after a clean OS install); also, there may be a slight (if imperceptible) performance gain by loading apps from a separate drive, because most apps also access files on the Windows drive when starting up. Finally, Photoshop prefers its "scratch file" to be on a physical drive different from the one that holds the Windows paging file.

I generally use the D: drive for apps and the Photoshop scratch file, and the E: drive for the paging file and file storage (docs, images, email and temp directories, download archives, etc.). I wouldn't fool around with RAID configurations—the real-world performance gains provided by some configurations aren't significant enough to offset the potential downsides (i.e., a single drive failure takes out your installation and all your data).

For most everything you may want to know about hard drives, check out The Storage Review. (http://www.storagereview.com/)

OK I'm looking at a long overdue hardware upgrade on a limited budget.

Currently using:

AMD Athlon XP 2800+
GeForce FX 5600 256MB
1GB DDR400
XP Pro

The FX 5600 is on its last legs (I replaced its crappy fan with a passive heatsink, last year and -- along with an upgrade to the case cooling, cut noise and improved (reduced) gpu overheating, but I am getting tired of the crap performance and want to upgrade without spending a fortune I don't have.

After a long look I figure my money is best invested in something like the ATI X 1950 Pro (I like to double all the numbers when I upgrade and the ATI chipset gives me double of everything the 5600 offered). So I am looking at something like:

    * Gigabyte M55-S S3
    * AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ (Brisbane)
    * 2GB 800 MHz DDR2 RAM
    * Zalman 480 watt PSU
    * Sapphire x1950 Pro 512MB PCIe

Which I can get from techeads.co.uk for under £350. Or can I do even better with my money? (It's a lot better than getting an AGP version of the 1950 + a wattier PSU and a gig of DDR, which would cost almost £200 and be obsolete before it was even upacked!)

You definitely need the upgrade to PCI-E.  I have a couple of thoughts about each of the other components, which need to be taken with a grain of salt since I am a huge hardware snob:

• MoBo: It has 4 PCI-E x1 slots (for which not many components are currently available), but only 1 x16.  Personally, I prefer a board that offers SLI or Crossfire capabilities, since it maximizes upgrade potential.  Of course, you can't find anything cheap that can manage both slots at x16, so if money is a real issue you might do well settling for less.  Apart from that, Gigabyte is a great brand, and tend to do well with the BIOS revisions.
• Processor: I prefer Intel chips, but I also recognize they tend to be a bit pricier.  If you want to stick with AMD, you might do a bit better with the 2.6GHz Windsor alternative (which is only about $15 more in the US), but again, that's entirely dependent on your budget.
• RAM: Without knowing the latency and brand, I can't really say anything about this choice.  If it's a good brand, I'm sure you'll be fine.
• PSU: If it's an option, give some serious consideration to the Silverstone ST50EF Plus.  It's 500 watts continuous, and actually costs less than the Zalman where I live.  Plus, it's often recommended as the budget builder's PSU, due to it's price, reliability, and efficiency.
• GPU: At this point in time, I'm not sure avoiding DX10 cards is wise.  The midrange 8000s and x2000s have come down in price considerably, and will give you similar performance to the 1950pro.  Plus, with the new NVidias due to launch in a couple of months, you're brand new system will be two generations behind.  Again, it's up to you, but I'd be a little wary throwing $125 (US) at a card that will be going obselete in the next couple of years, especially if you're on a budget.

Overall, I think your setup looks pretty good on the performance front.  The price tag seems a bit high, since over here I could get a comparable system for just over $500 (about 250 pounds if I'm not mistaken).  Looking at NewEgg (which, sadly, does not deliver overseas) the Processor is $109, the PSU is right around $100, the MoBo is not carried (but other boards with similar specs are under $100), value RAM is going for just over $100, and the GPU can be found as low as $125.  Could you give me the breakdown for your components?

Hey, thanks for the input; on the mobo especially. I'll look again at that. It's the motherboard I am most concerned with. It must have upgradabilty, so a second X16 PCIe slot seems like excellent advice. I aim to upgrade every 2-3 years and aim to use the best of the "older" technology that has emerged since my last upgrade.

As for prices I don't think that direct exchange rates are the best way of comparing prices country to country. In the US a buck is viewed by the shopper in the same was a pound is in the UK. There are certain barriers, the breaching of which cause the consumer is apt to respond negavitely. Examples are the price of a cup of coffee or a gallon of petrol.

I'll probably shop around more aggressively for the components, especially the graphics card. I've seen the X1950 as low as £67 ... but there's always the trustability of the seller. A bargain's no good if it doesn't work and the seller's after sales service is poor.

Prices:
Motherboard: £48
CPU and fan:  £69
RAM:            £67
PSU:             £52
x1950:          £100

Like I said, prices are annoying. I often notice that US sites' prices convert to UK prices at bargain rates, but the only time I ever tried it I got badly stung with the import tax. OK it was only 17.5% but it virtually eliminated the saving after allowing for the extra shipping cost.

The prices seem pretty close to what I see over here.  The RAM is a bit more, but this is probably a good thing since more expensive RAM will generally have better timing and more lasting value.  The biggest difference is that the 1950 you are looking at is about $75 more. 

The MoBo issue is an interesting one.  It wouldn't cost you that much extra to step up to a board that comes with 2 x16 slots (and the capability to run at either 2 times x16, or 1 times x16 and 1 times x8).  However, actually using a Crossfire configuration will run you quite a bit more, since you'd need another GPU, a better PSU, and (in some cases) additional cooling solutions.  I think it's worth the extra cash, but your financial situation might be a bit different. 

In general, the most economic way I have found to keep a system up to date is as follows:

• Case: Do not upgrade unless absolutely critical
• PSU: Invest in a good 750 watt, 56Amp (or greater) supply early on that has a good warrenty.  Don't upgrade again until it starts to go bad (estimated 5+ years)
• Hard Drive: Keep two on board at all times, and upgrade the older of the two every other year
• Processor: Upgrade every 2 years (market permitting)
• MoBo: Upgrade when another component requires it
• GPU: Upgrade once a year
• RAM: This is a bit tricky, since the amount "needed" keeps going up.  In general, I buy when I see a good deal.

Using the above method, you should only spend between three and five hundred dollars (US) a year on components (assuming you are buying a high end GPU, but not the best available).  Most years, you'll only need the GPU and one major component.  On occasion, the upgrade of a processor will require a MoBo upgrade, which might run a bit closer to $500.  I find this method far superior to the general strategy of simply getting a new computer every few years.  They cost about the same (assuming you can get a relatively high end machine for $1500) and a new system tends to go obselete rather quickly these days.  By contrast, the upgrade cycle I outline above ensures most components are as close to cutting edge as possible.  For someone on a tighter budget, the above strategy can be tweaked accordingly.

 

OK thanks a lot for your input, B.

I took your advice on the motherboard and went for:

Gigabyte GA-M57SLI-S4 nForce 570 SLi (Socket AM2) PCI-E DDR2 ATX : £52.80 (http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2287)

Hiper HPU-4M580 Type M CrossFire Certified 580W ATX2.2: £47:50

The memory is by Corsair btw ... it was the best price I could find for a so-called matched pair. It had some good ratings compared with similar priced products.

I will probably upgrade again in less than a year with a second x1950 and some more ram before I'll need to consider trading the cpu up to a meatier model.

Really appreciated the input.

I'm thinking about buying Bon Voyage and playing the sims on my laptop again. I know I can handle the base game on my laptop (not the best graphics in the world and load times are sometimes long), but my question is, will I be able to handle Bon Voyage, and if yes, could I get away with Seasons too? If it would make the game too laggy, then I'd skip out on one or the other ep. Sadly I'm a poor college student, so I'm saving for a new computer instead of upgrades for my laptop (which I got in 2003)

My Specs: (Dell Inspiron 1100)

XP Home Edition
Intel Celeron CPU 2.00GHz
638 RAM
Page File: 550 used of 1008 MB avaliable
dx version: Direct X 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)

Intel 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Controller
Chip type: Intel 82845G grapnis controller
Aprox. total memory: 64 MB

Main driver: ialmrnt5.dll
Version: 6.14.0010.4342

You don't have a computer, you have a doorstop. The only components you have of any worth are the hard drives. And those probably aren't worth much either.

Celery = crap, Intel video = crap. None of them are worth money, so any money you paid for them is simply wasted. Next time, get a real computer, not a doorstop. If you're that broke, sell your ass.

No, your laptop would never be able to handle Seasons or BV- even if you didn't have a Celeron, all that graphics chip would get you is flashing red things. Until you can get a new computer, stick with the base game + OFB.

You want a doorstop!? I was running Sims 2 on a P2@450 with a mere 384MB using a geforce 2 gts.  ;D  Sims 2 wasn't that horrible, ok it was bad.. but not nearly as bad as trying to do mental ray rendering in max.  :D

It's absolutely possible to get a good mobo and current generation midrange processor for $500.  Since these are apparently the only components getting replaced at the time, I need your other system specs before making any suggestions (in order to ensure the components I advise you to get are compatible). 

Also, since you're doing mobo and CPU at the same time, it would be possible to switch from AMD to Intel if you want.  Please let us know if this is an option you'd entertain.

Crossfire and SLI are two completely different standards. I looked this up when I was looking to build a couple months ago. There are a few rare boards that can do either, but not many right now.

Be careful with low wattage cards that claim dual GPU capabilities.  I'm guessing your supply could power two midrange cards in SLI or Crossfire, but it would definitely not be able to run two high end cards.  I'll talk more about a dual GPU setup below.


To get the full benefit of a two card configuration, you need to have a mobo capable of piping each card at x16.  Most boards that come with two PCIE16 slots do not have this ability, managing at most x24 between the two cards.  As a result, you end up getting into situations where one card runs at x16, and the other gets throttled to x8, or (even worse) both cards are throttled to x8.  If you are willing to get a top shelf board, you will have the ability to run both cards at x16, which can be rather spectacular (I've got two 8800GTX in SLI, and I have yet to encounter a game that won't run at 50fps or greater with everything maxed).  Just keep an eye on this when buying your upgrades.


Yes, the AGP will be gone.  Fortunately, you can pick up a 7600GT or x1650 for under $100 which will both give you reasonable performance while you save up for a future generation card (the G92 is due out this winter, and should be an excellent choice if Nvidia hasn't screwed things up royally).  Everything I list below is at least DDR2 800.  Your RAM should still be compatible, although you might want to check with the manufacturer to confirm. 

With that out of the way, here are my mobo suggestions (in order of attractiveness to me).  Please keep in mind that I generally prefer Intel boards, since I run with a 6800 processor.  I've also included one AMD option that I've heard good things about.

• Bearlake X- Of course, I'm going to start with a board that does not actually exist yet.  Bearlake X is due out in the next month or so, and is going to be the first board on the market that supports PCIE 2.0.  It will take DDR3 1066 or DDR 2 800.  The board will allow full bandwidth for both GPUs.  Unfortunately, I can't give you an idea on price at the moment, since no partners have given a pre-release notice (as far as I know).  It will probably be somewhere in the 200-300 dollar range on release.  If you want to be prepared for the future, this would be an ideal motherboard for you.
• ASUS Striker (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131074)- This is the best Intel mobo on the market right now, and it's the one I use for my gaming system.  The cost is high ($300) and so it might be pushing your budget a little (refer to the processors I suggest lower down the page).  Read the spec page at NewEgg to get an idea of the features, and you'll see that this has everything you could want.  A big advantage with this board is that it comes with an IDE connector.  Nowadays, many boards only support SATA.  If you want the best enthusiast board currently on the market, get a Striker.
• EVGA nforce 680i (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188014)- Since entering the motherboard market, Nvidia has impressed quite a few people.  Their boards are well made, and do extremely well with two GPUs in SLI (although you would not have good Crossfire capabilities).  Like the Striker, this board also comes with an IDE connector.  For reference, it uses an Intel socket.
• ASUS 580X Crossfire (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131095)- This is the only AMD socketed board I feel comfortable recommending.  Although I do not have any first hand experience with it, one of my buddies is an AMD fanboy, and this is the mobo he uses.  It is also the cheapest board on my list ($120) and will be outdated sooner than any of the others.  However, if you want to stick with an AMD processor, this is probably your best bet.  It also will support your IDE HD.

 

Now that we've done mobos, let's look at processors.  Keep in mind that the first three boards above use the Intel LGA 775 socket, and so you'd need a Core 2 chip for them.  The AMD board has an X2 socket.  In general, I suggest you figure out how much can be spent on the actual computer after deciding on a motherboard.  Get the best you can afford.  A couple of quick things to consider (all good buys for the money):

• Intel C2D 6600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115003)- An excellent buy for $230 bucks.
• Intel C2D 6400 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115004)- Best Intel card you can get at the $200 mark.  Overclocks well.
• AMD X2 6000 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773)- Again, I don't have much experience with AMD processors, but I've heard good things about this one.  It can be procured for $165.

Keep in mind, these are not necessarily the best processors on the market, but they do give the best performance for the amount you pay.  In your situation, I'd seriously consider the EVGA board with the Intel 6600 (cost to you: $400 after rebate).  Both components are relatively high end, and you should get excellent performance for at least three years (provided the other pieces of your system get updated in good time).  Of course, if you stick with AMD, you can get decent performance for quite a bit less (the mobo and X2 come to just under $300).  Like I said, I prefer Intel, but your mileage may vary.  If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask.


Edit to correct some confusing statements.

In general, which video card make would be the best to run The Sims 2 on? I'm currently using an NVidia but there seems to be a lot of problems with these cards. Also, what kind of processor speed am I looking at to run a video card that's the high end of affordable? (Say ideally under £250 or $500)

No, I don't know what motherboard I have but if you could just give me a rough idea of what to look for I know someone who will be able to help me put all the information together into something meaningful.

There have been very few problems with the ATI Radeon cards, and you can easily find cards in the X1xxx series for under your price. If memory serves, the X19xxx series is the recommended top-end one, but I've had very good results with my third-party (VisionTek) Radeon X1300.

I would second the support for the ATI Radeon cards.  My current mobo is an ASUS thing with a built in ATI card running on an X300 chipset and it runs BV fine.  Not that I suggest slumming it with a low-end card, but there are certainly less reported game-related issues with the ATI cards, as compared with the NVidia cards.

Posting here because I'm fairly certain my problem is a need to upgrade hardware...

I've got all EPs and SPs. I've purged SecuRom from my system and am running the game with YASU and a no-cd.exe. (Just say "Do Not Want!" to the patch.)

Until BV I've had no issues running the game with 3500+ AMD Athlon 64, 1GB Ram and an ATI Radeon Xpress 200... yes, even Seasons ran decently. Probably because I always play with lighting on low and shadows off.

After installing BV, the only way I can get any sort of play time is by removing all CC (except hacks) and playing small lots with minimal anything on them. With CC I still have to do all that, except that as soon as night rolls around, I get the blue-screen lag and lock. The only thing I can do by then is kill the game and start it again. I'm assuming I need more RAM and a better video card. If this isn't the case, I'd be happy to know what's going on. I keep track of my hacks and make sure they're up to date, so I very much doubt this is the issue.

My question is, due to hardware stupidity and non-awesomeness, which should be my priority? RAM or a new graphics card? I can't sink cash into both at this time, one is going to have to wait a few months. If I should go for a new graphics card first, can someone make a few recommendations? The graphics I have now are integrated/motherboard, PCI-express and I have no clue what I can and can't replace it with or if it even makes a difference. I'd prefer to be able to slap the new card in and not have to fiddle with a bunch of stuff to make it compatible (wouldn't we all) but I'll do what I must.

Definitely the video card. All EPs and SPs with just onboard video? XD Wow. You'll probably want to look for one of ATI Radeon X1XXX type cards. I personally have a Sapphire Radeon X1650 Pro.

lemonfresh, if you want to play with all of your cc and decrease loading times, upgrading your memory to 2gb will help significantly improve performance. Upgrading graphics will give better appearances and the demands in graphics from the seasons and bv eps, though onboard graphics would certainly take its toll so maybe it should be a first priority. So the choice is really what you feel is most most important.

Ok. I'm about to do an upgrade, at least in the next month. It's time. I want to be in line for Spore to be as pretty as possible, and I've a Christmas bonus a'comin'. Current stats:

System Model: Dell DXP051                 
               BIOS: Phoenix ROM BIOS PLUS Version 1.10 A03
          Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
             Memory: 2046MB RAM
Card name: ATI Radeon X300/X550/X1050 Series
     Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
        Chip type: RADEON X600 (0x5B62)
         DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
   Display Memory: 256.0 MB
Monitor Max Res: 1280,1024
Description: SigmaTel Audio


I definitely want to up my card. I'm thinking an ATI x1950, 'cause they're shiny, and not too bad on price (plus ATI pawns Nvidia when it comes to game bug issues). I want more RAM, because more RAM makes it go whoosh. Maybe an extra gig? Or could I go double to four gigs? I'm sure I'll need some sort of cooling solution to handle the extra load. And my extremely stupid question for the moment...is a processor upgradable?

Unfortunately, I've never tried upgrading a computer. I've added in an Ethernet card on an old 486, plus put a sound card in. But I've not done video or RAM. I'll be able to figure it out...I'm quite good at putting things together. But as for what is compatible with what...well.

Video card is not a bad idea.  However, I'm running a Base-Uni-BV combination with a P4 dual core 3Gig, Asus mobo with onboard ATI Radeon X200 (X300 chipset), and 1 Gig of RAM, and it runs smooth and fine.  I'm wondering if problems might be more associated with a difference between Intel and AMD configurations.  I would upgrade my video card in an instant (since it is about as old as Moses) if it wasn't working for me.  In any case, my point really is that lag or other such problems may not be simply due to a single component.

Mind you, considering the problems others are having, my system performance seems to defy logical explanation.  I can only say that I built my own, choosing each and every part through some lengthy research, so that probably helps.

Well, it could also be that I'm not running dual core and am running all the Eps and Sps.  My AMD is 2.2Ghz. I have to admit, I'm rather impressed with the performance of the onboard ATI Radeon X200. And like I said, it held strong all through Seasons. BV is just the straw that's breaking the camel's back, unfortunately. I'm pretty confident that more RAM and new graphics card are in order, rather than just one, or the other. I did find out that my X200 is up to 128MB, but that it "borrows" some or all of that from my 1GB... (in non-awesome terms, hardware has never really been my thing). I think I'm going to copy Raene and hunt down a Radeon X1650 Pro. I'll slap another GB RAM in as well, when I can and see how that works.

Much thanks and bleating for the responses.

If I recall correctly, in its day, the X200/X300 series were considered pretty good.  I am impressed that I get real fingers and full animations without lag or jerky shit from this card.  I believe (being too lazy to dig up my spec sheets and background info on my rig's components) that, while the card itself has a certain amount of memory, being built in also lets it share RAM with the board (and here I'm probably making some terrible IT description errors).  I thought that with BV I would finally stretch the limits of the meagre 1Gig RAM on my system, but no.

The game does heat things up, but I have never overheated or crashed.  I do have problems hearing the game sound if all the cooling fans are going at once.  :P

The time has come for me to buy a completely new computer. I've been searching all over the net for something suitable and think I may have found the winner. I'd appreciate advice and any opinions on whether to go for it. The only game I'll be running will be Sims 2 with all the EP's and perhaps Sims 3 when it comes out, other than that just usual stuff like watching vids, internet, music etc.

Here is your chosen specification...

Processor (CPU)
 Intel® Core™2 Duo E6750 (2 X 2.66GHz) 1333MHz FSB/4MB L2 Cache
Memory (RAM)
 2048 MB CORSAIR DDR2 667MHz - LIFETIME WARRANTY! (2x1GB)
Motherboard
 ASUS® P5K SE: DDR2, SATAII, PCI-e x16, 2 PCI, 3 x PCI-e x1
Operating System
 WINDOWS® VISTA Home Premium (inc Genuine CD & License) (£59)
USB Options
 8 x USB 2.0 PORTS (6 REAR + 2 FRONT) AS STANDARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
 250GB SERIAL ATA II HARD DRIVE WITH 8MB CACHE (7200rpm)
2nd Hard Disk
 NONE
1st CD/DVD Drive
 20x Dual Layer LightScribe DVD Writer ±R/±RW/RAM
2nd CD/DVD Drive
 NONE
Graphics Card
 512MB RADEON X1950 PRO PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT
Sound Card
 8 Channel Realtek ALC883 High Definition Audio (P5K-SE)
Network Facilities
 ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
Memory Card Reader
 INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (READS XD, MS, CF, SD, etc)
Case
 Stylish Silver/Black Sigma case + 2 front USB
Power Supply & Case Cooling
 500W (Peak) Quiet Dual Rail PSU + 120mm Case Fan (£25)
Processor Cooling
 SUPER QUIET 19 dBA INTEL CPU COOLER (£14)

All this with monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers for £742 inc. tax and shipping.

So what do the experts think? Anything you would recommend changing? I'm dithering over whether to get vista or stick to XP and I'm also wondering whether to increase the power supply to 600 watt (adds £35 to the price).

Ideally I'd like the new PC to last for 3+ years with perhaps some upgrading in the future if I really need it.
 
 
 

If it were me, I'd up the PSU and I'd DEFINITELY stick with XP. The new beta SP1 for Vista that was supposed to fix driver issues is being reported as borking even more drivers.  ::) And SP3 for XP will be out soon, that will add the only good parts of Vista to XP- the security. If you decide to go with Vista, I'd add more RAM. 2 GB is going to be the minimum you can get by with on Vista.

It looks good, though.

Thanks KatEnigma. Points noted about XP vs Vista. I'm going to do some more research on this over the weekend. News about the Vista sp1 borking even more stuff doesn't really inspire confidence or make me want to buy it. With XP at least I know exactly what I'm getting and I'm familiar with how it all works. So sticking with XP is nosing ahead.

I'm thinking that you're recommending upping the PSU to help future-proof the PC, right? Which seems sensible in that case. I know very little about this area and don't want to shell out loads for a huge PSU I might not utilise fully nor get one too small that it'll need replacing in 6 months. More research needed  :P

Ok, I've got most everything figured out for my upgrade. Went to the Dell site to get RAM recommendations so I don't get the wrong thing...but I'm getting everything elsewhere because even with my company's 20% discount, it's overpriced. However, they only listed a Radeon x1650 XT as the highest graphics card they have for me, and I want the Procolor x1950 Pro (512 mb as opposed to my 256 mb and basically everything prettier, shinier, with 3.0 shaders). There's notes on newegg about making sure that your power supply is sufficient. I don't know what my power supply is and can't find any information anywhere.

How do I locate information on my power supply?

Open your case and the info you need should be written on the side of the PSU itself.  If it isn't visible you may need to remove the unit as the info may be on the non-visible side.

Hopefully it won't be less than a 550W unit as that should be sufficient to run the system you already have plus the upgrade to the X1950.

Right - 550W should be ample.  However, it's also worth noting that power-supply is not the place to make economies when building a rig.  A lot of the "el-cheapo" power-supplies do not produce a solid, stable 550W consistently, which can lead to uneven running and some crashes (so I'm told - I was warned off and never tried it  ;D).  The better PS units also tend to have better cooling, which probably means longer run life as well.  Anyhow, I run with 450W stable power, having spent a little bit more for a reliable brand name PS, and life in Simville is good.

What brand did you go with? I haven't had a chance to look at Addison's insides yet (opening things when they have power running to them makes me extremely nervous, even though I know he's got a lot of space between the panel and his motherboard) but I'm almost 100% sure that it's not a 550W. I'm getting such great quoted prices on the graphics card and RAM that I'd be fine with anything less than $300 for the PSU. And that's way, way more than I'm seeing charged.

Here's what I'm looking at: http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=58&name=Power-Supplies
The Rosewill RP550V2-S-SL 550W looks great at first glance, lots of nice reviews and $59.99, but the COOLER MASTER Real Power Pro RS-650-ACAA-A1 650W is of course higher and still not bad at all at $109.99.

I recall looking at Thermaltake, Coolermaster, and Antek.  My memory (which is questionable at best) suggests that I finally went with an Antek 430W, which is not listed on the Newegg site, as far as I can tell.  Prices have come down a fair bit, I note, since I built Frankenstein.  I'll check through my notes etc. on this and confirm what I actually went with.  I know it's not more than 430W, but it's a very stable, consistent 430.  I think I paid $80 or so a year and a half ago for something that costs $40 now.  Maybe you can make economies now after all.

I was looking at a 450W PS at $25, and a techie friend talked me out of it which is why I recall going for the more expensive component.

Edit:  @Zazazu:  I have the Thermaltake Purepower 430W.  Very solid.  Naturally, you will have to determine the wattage required for whatever processor, mobo, and other components combination you put together.  Bigger is not "worse", and may be better if you're adding higher end cards (i.e. video) than my system has.

I highly recommend the OCZ power supplies. They all have stellar reviews on Newegg. I have a 530w one (now obsolete. LOL!) and it alone lowered my system temperature by 10º C. My only complaint is that the cables were so thick and high quality that they didn't want to bend nicely. It's also QUIET. I can personally attest to OCZ's excellent customer service, as well. Newegg has a 600w one on sale right now for  $89.99  (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341010) if you find that you need to replace yours.

I don't know where mildly is getting 550w for the 1950 from, though. The number I'm seeing is 450. I looked last night, because I'm putting the 1950 Pro into my new system, and am going to reuse my PSU and case.  But then, I'm not paranoid about it because I only run with 1 HD and 1 optical drive.

The link to the toshiba won't work, but I looked, and couldn't see what graphics chip it had anywhere on the page.

The Compaq might run the game. It won't be great, but I can run through OFB on a laptop with worse. Of course, you'll be stuck with Vista, and you want to run Seasons, which borked the Nvidia drivers more, so maybe not.

If that's all the budget you have, you need to either get a desktop NOT a laptop, or wait until you've saved up enough money to get a laptop that will run TS2 properly.

If you have to go for a laptop, I'd go with the Toshiba, mainly because of the ATI built in card.  If you do that, you will likely want to upgrade to the 2Gig of RAM (which appears to be an option).  I personally don't like laptops because I don't get to choose all components - I'd rather build my own rig.  That said, you can get a bigger bang for the buck if you go with a desktop rig, but I don't know what other requirements you have for your computer (maybe it needs to travel - I often wish my Sims 2 desktop machine could travel with me during family reunions with my inlaws, for example).

I have an onboard ATI X200 (on an X300 chipset - considerably older than what is offered with the Toshiba) and it does a great job with TS2, even when it shares memory with my 1Gig RAM computer.  On the other hand, this may be because the other components of my rig are pretty good too.  There are other "MATYvillians" who have better systems than mine on paper, who have had difficulties playing, so it really pays to make sure you meet/exceed the system requirements.

Well, thanks all. I just ordered my upgrade. Wasn't cheap, but should do me well for another two years, maybe even three. I decided against upgrading my processor just yet as I couldn't find one that wasn't inordinately expensive and a significant step up from my current one. This is what I have coming:

POWERCOLOR X1950PRO512MBAC Radeon X1950PRO 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 CrossFire Supported Video Card

OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply
 
2 G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL5D-2GBNQ


Apparently, my current power supply is only 375W.  >:(

God bless this upgrade, and all sims who sail in her.

And something to smash against the bow, when the time comes...
(http://www.evinite.fr/images/champagne-dom-peringon-1998.jpg)

I was hoping to find someone who knows laptops. I'm thinking of replacing my dead PC with a laptop. It would be easier to bring back home with me - I don't want a PC, shipping one over would be too expensive. I do need a computer though. A relative recommended this one:

http://www.ibuypower.com/ibp/store/configurator.aspx?mid=249

What do you think? I am not very savvy on hardware at all. Would that one play TS2, Oblivion, and the like? A friend already told me that this computer would do nicely, but I've read things about Sims and Oblivion since then that make me a little leery. Such that Oblivion needs a certain T&S function, and a lot of laptops can't provide that transparency and shader function.

The processor's a bit on the low side for Oblivion. I have a 3.0Ghz one (non-duo, though), 2 gigs RAM. I can barely run Oblivion. The FPS is between 14-20, and that's with all my options fairly low, low poly grass mesh replacements, less grass settings, and absolutely nothing running in the background. Oblivion kicks computer ass. Should be ok for Sims, though.

Graphics card looks good to me.

*I get my shinies today!*

Thank you, Zazazu. So even if I order the 2.4 processor, I still would have problems then. I never really understood the dual vs. other core thing. I don't know if that would make a difference. I know that desk-top PC's have single and dual core processors, and someone told me that a single core processor, like the old celerons have, is completely useless for the newer games.

Plus, it would come with Vista, which I heard is an enormous system hog all on its own. If it has problems with Oblivion, I guess I could kiss any plans for NWN2 goodbye. The sims, as big as it is, seems to have the least problems with lower end processors.

As far as I know, TS2 does not know what to do with dual core.  I have 3Gig dual and it runs fine, but I don't think it's using the full capacity of the processor.  I could be wrong - there's a thread around somewhere (in Podium?) on using dual core with the Sims and getting optimal performance.


If you have XP disks, you could wipe the laptop when you get it and reload with XP.  Probably a good idea to wipe and reload anyway, to avoid any pre-installed spyware that the store/manufacturer might load.  That way you get only what you want on the HD (and lurking in your registry).  Auf nimmermehr wiederschauen, Vista!

Why does this store have ATI video cards on all the AMD machines, but only NVIDIA on the Intel ones?  Why can't I choose, dammit?!  I'm with Zazazu on the processor - get bigger processor if you can, but I want to choose other components.  This store annoys me.

Thanks, Jolrei. I'm guessing ATI cards are better than Nvidia then? Yeah I know, I'm a Dummkopf as far as techie-knowledge goes.

That store is the about the only one that has what I minimally need, at the price I can afford, unfortunately. I've searched quite a bit, but no one else came even close to those two essentials. I would so love to have a few extra thousands stashed in my change purse, but alas, I'm but a poor post-degree student who makes a wee bit of money as a TA. Post-degree students don't qualify for aid, so loans it is, damn it.

I have a friend with a $3500 laptop. Oh the envy.

It just seems that, where TS2 is involved, especially since BV came out, that a lot more graphical problems seem to be associated with Nvidia cards than with the ATI Radeon ones.  I would check specs to make sure that whatever card you get is compatible with TS2 if you go with the Nvidia.  Chances are that the card included with this system would be fine, but you'd hate to just get it and find problems later, is my thought.

No "dummkopf-ness" implied.  :)

Well, it's a good thought. Especially because a laptop video card can't be replaced easily. Or so I've heard from frustrated friends.

I guess the larger processor it is then. I have little choice with the card, the other laptops are just too expensive. Maybe I'll just nag, cajole, bribe, etc. my relative into installing Oblivion on hers and see if it runs. But I'll cruise around the net first to see if I can get the one I pin-pointed with an ATI card. The more choices, the better, I agree on that one.

Edited: because I forgot to ask what the difference between home xp (which I had) and professional xp is. Any huge differences there? The company will load up xp instead of vista, but professional costs about $50 more.

I tried Oblivion on my Dell laptop -- it has a 2.8Ghz processor, 1Gb RAM and an ATI Mobile Radeon X300.  It was pretty unplayable. (In fact, it's pretty much unplayable on my desktop with a 3Ghz processor and 2Gb RAM. I've given up on it.)

That doesn't bode well. Those are some nice specs Joe, and it still didn't play it? Bummer. Maybe in that case the Mobile Nvidia 8600 geoforce would be a better idea then. I might have to forgo BV, but I'll still be able to play sims and my other games? I hope so, I truly do.

NWN2 actually ran almost perfectly for me. Maybe one area was slightly choppy...the battle at the very, very beginning. But Oblivion - blech. I forgot how much the FPS annoyed me when I reloaded it for a second playthrough. For some reason, rats and wolves really make it stutter. Finally decided I wasn't trying to finish it and the EP until my upgrade.

Yea, it got real annoying when the Oblivion FPS slowed to a crawl in the middle of a raging fight -- made it hard to actually win them sometimes, no matter how strong the character.  Just got too frustrating for me.

Try it as an mystic archer. (Custom class, marksman/destructive mage). As a swordsman it's not bad, you mainly position yourself in some approximation of where the enemy is and click a lot. Aiming during stuttering sucks.

Dear sweet Christ!  What sort of specs do you need to run it smoothly?  Not an Oblivion player myself, but I didn't think dual core 3Gig and 1-2Gig of RAM was that far behind the times.  It's fine for anything I've thrown at it.  Shows what I know about the current game options, I guess.

I'm exercising my inner OCD child with TS2 anyway, so I'm not in the market for new shinies - the implied resource needs you describe for this just surprise me.  I'll just bask in my ignorance of how far behind I actually am.

Well you see, that's just it. My dead computer had only 782 RAM, a very old, 9 year old powersupply, and an ATI radeon 9700 video card with 256 RAM. However, it played Oblivion - and its EP's more or less alright. I had it on medium setting, but my Stealth fighter/mage had no problems. She kicked serious butt with her destruction/marksman/sneak skills.

So okay, it crashed a few times. Well ok it crashed everytime when I tried to load a different save in-game, but still. But if it plays NWN2, then I don't have to re-write my wish list, yay.

Well, my computer kicks Oblivion's ass, but it sometimes lags with TS2. Only on lots with tons of Sims, though.  I actually have a problem with it running NWN2 too fast :P. (Anyone know of a mod for NWN2 that slows camera rotation down, by the way?) My specs for reference are:

AMD X2 Gamer SLI
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 5000+, MMX (2CPUs)
2 Gigs RAM
NVidia GeForce 7900 GT/GTO video cards (2 of these)

It was about $2000, built for me by a local guy last year. He was all excited because it outperformed his friend's brand-new $10,000 Dell ;D

NVidia and ATI cards both have driver issues with certain games. ATI was awful with KotOR, for instance. Also, you'll get more computer for less money in a desktop. I agree with putting money into the CPU and motherboard and save it on the video cards, since those are much easier to upgrade.

I kind of think it's more that Oblivion didn't get along well with the x600 card newer drivers, because I don't remember it being so bitchy before. I was getting 14-20 FPS with my now-old setup. Now, 3 hours of installing later (Dell really knows how to nest things) I'm getting 52-63 FPS on high settings in Oblivion with the 4gigs RAM and x1950Pro card. Off to play Sims!

Yeah, I know, Neriana. For the $1000+ I'm shelling out for the laptop I could get a much better desktop.

The problem is that I'm not going to be here much longer, and shipping a PC over would be too much trouble. There's laws to consider, and the safety of the unit, and the high shipping cost.

A laptop I can bring on the plane, and I have the added bonus of being able to play on the flight over. It's a long flight, let me tell you. Last time I went over to visit, it took us 15 hours to get from here, to Charlotte, to the UK, to Frankfurt. I'm so very impatient, and that was an ordeal for me.

I hate that I have to buy one at any rate, but I can't make it through school without one, not easily, and the program is tough enough without me adding difficulties. Argh!

True, laptops are a lot more convenient. Finding one for a reasonable price that will play Sims 2 well shouldn't be too hard; I think Oblivion is where the problem lies. But that could be an opportunity to play some old games you never got a chance to try out before as well. ;)

Ohh, that's true. I forgot about that, I wrote them down somewhere. Thanks for reminding me, Neriana.

You can't really compare duo's to non duo's by just looking at what frequency they run at (the Htz part) This never was a good way of denoting power, and even Intel has finally dropped it.  AMD's always had a lower frequency than their Intel "equivalents" for example, and most gaming companies acknowledged that (not for TS2, mind you... ) A modern processor is going to run as fast as a P4, most likely, despite the lower Ghz. The problem is, now that Intel has dropped that, there's no easy way to just know what is better than what. That it's a laptop makes it even harder. However, I found a Cnet Asia review of a very similarly spec'd out Dell, and it got an Excellent rating. The processor is one of the new Core 2 Extremes, even.  I don't know about Oblivion, but you should be able to play most other games. ATI, unfortunately, has all but gone out of the mobile processor business.  :-\  To play TS2 on any new laptop, you're going to have to try the workarounds.

Thanks Kat. I wonder why ATI is doing that, what with notebooks becoming more and more popular. I guess a REAL gamer doesn't do laptops :)

Oh bother on the TS2 part. I already ordered it, because I was able to get most of the explanations I needed thanks to friends here, there, everywhere. Oblivion should have no problem (even though Bethesda says it's not mobile supported), as long as the T&S is present. Now I have to wonder if TS2 will play. Oh hell...

Oh, TS2 will PLAY. You just won't be able to see the fish and might have some other graphical errors.  There are lots of posts here at Maty about the workarounds for that. EAxis isn't supporting laptops, either.  ::)

EAxis isn't even properly supporting their products, so that's not a surprise. After all, non-support is what they're best at.

I've been searching and reading on the laptop issue, luckily the search for "laptop" only brought up 3 pages, so it's not all that much. I'll be expanding it if necessary, but that's enough for now.

Meh, at least it will play it, that's good enough for now. The fine-tuning will just have to be done upon installing TS2 and its EP's.

I don't have too many problems playing TS2 on my Dell laptop.  It takes a little longer to load than on my desktop, and there's a bit more lag on occasion, but it's still playable.  Only thing I did was reduce the number of sims on a comm lot to something like 5 or 6 to cut the lag down.

(Oh, and I do see the fish. :) )

LOL (and I did), when everyone started to mention fish, I had to look around to see what they meant. I've never seen any fish in the pond, I didn't even know they where supposed to be there.

So I'm guessing I'll not be missing them. The one thing that worries me is Oblivion. But as Neriana pointed out, there are older games. Now I'm getting ready to find Baldur's Gate again. I know I had both I and II. Where are they, rassafrassinconsarnit!

Frankly, you never know until you try these things, I think.  From the posts on BV problems, it seems to me that the one consistent thing is that problems are inconsistent across computers that have the same general specs and the same video cards.  Your laptop sounds fine for TS2, considering my rig and its outdated video and paltry 1Gig of RAM.  I have had no problems.  A lot depends on the quality of components.  Best of luck, srsly.  (I went straight from UNI to BV with no intervening EPs - my sims don't even know what fish are.  Imagine graduating from university with that kind of a hole in your knowledge.  :D )

Pffft. Today's education system... Why, when I was young, they made us go to school everyday, including Saturday and Sunday. Six miles, uphill both ways, through 6 feet of snow. Those young 'uns nowadays.. sad, sad, sad.

But I did threaten bribe my relative to install Oblivion on her computer - just to see, okay? I wasn't going to make her let me play it or nothing -. And it worked. It played at the highest resolution and no stuttering, hopping or skipping.

Unfortunately I failed to threaten bribe her into installing TS2. She claims that it would take too long (all EP's). Pfft. Today's youngsters have no idea about patience. Why, when I was young... (okay, okay, I'll shut up :))

I also recommend Planescape: Torment, and I bet both Star Wars: KotOR games will work as well. Also Morrowind if you haven't played it -- I find the setting far more interesting than Oblivion's.

When I was young, I had to switch BGII discs during nearly every loading screen! And the load times were so long I was able to finish my homework during them. Now I bitch about having to install a game from more than one DVD.

Oh yeah, I do have Morrowind. I have been playing it all along. I also had some good mods, that went down the drain. I need to do some 'shopping' for that one as well. I was using Motoki's better heads, and Gorgh's Balmora expansion. I hope I can find that back. I haven't seen Motoki in ages, and Gorgh's site is gone. I'll try the VGN Vault and Tessource, maybe they have their stuff there.

Still can't find BG, neither one of them. And they are not available in stores either. I guess I better check amazon, if all else fails... arrr and a bottle of rum.

But if the unit does play my games, including TS2, then that would mean that I got a whole lot of computer for the money. That unit cost me $1,002.00. I ordered the 2 x 2.4 GHz processor and Windows XP home edition. With the iBuyPower coupon, I think so far I got a good bargain. I checked around here, there, everywhere, and even though there was disagreement, everyone did tell me that Vista is not good for a laptop. Mainly because Vista is a terrible system hog.

Hello,

I'm actually on the process to buy a new computer for my sims 2.  I just receive a cotation with a configuration and I would like to know please for your advice on it.

The computer I look to buy is :

P4 Core 2 Duo 3MHZ Intel

motherboard : P5K-C INTL P35/ICH9 (Asus)

CPU : E6850 3.00 CORE 2 4M(1333 FSB)

MEM : DDR2 800

HARD DISK : SEAGATE 320GB

VIDEO CARD : SAPPHIRE HD2600XT 512M  (512MB ATI DDR3)

ON WINDOWS VISTA 32B PREMIUM



On this, can I be sure I will rock my Sims?  How do you think about it please.

Many thanks in advance

isa xxx

Specs look good, but DO NOT PAY FOR VISTA!

You mention the type of RAM, but not how much. I'm hoping it's at least 2 GB. Otherwise, it looks good.

Also try Planet Elderscrolls. They actually are my preferred spot for mods. They have mods for Morrowind and Oblivion.

...actually, Motoki's Better Heads and NPC Replace are there.

Yes, my RAM will be DDR2 800  (2X2Gig)

Thanks Zazazu, you've just made my day. I truly dislike the original heads, to me it always seemed as if they put the least amount of effort into those.

Nice machine Ililas. I learned a lot here in the last couple of days, that's for sure. I'll keep in mind to always search for Hegelian posts from now on. All the computer geniuses seem to post in his threads, and I can take it from there.

Well, my gaming computer died last thursday, and now I find myself in the market for a new rig. Gotta make a point to read through this thread completely while I'm browsing and perhaps even post my choices for criticism and general mocking before I actually buy anything. I know that I want to go for dual core, but I was thinking of going with an AMD processor, over intel. Mostly because of the price.

I have to replace all the key components: mobo, processor, ram, and MAYBE a new power supply..

Do you guys think that if I find a mobo with good onboard video to go for it, or do you think I should plunk down the loot for an offboard model? Right now I have I think it's an nVidea... 2500? It was good enough to play sims [without seeing fishes most of the time and having crappy ocean surf] AGP card, but a lot of the motherboards I'm looking at don't have AGP... is AGP outmoded or what? :P

It's hard to believe that only after 3 years all of the technology I have is already SO outmoded that none of the motherboards currently out there take the kind of RAM my motherboad does. Which sucks, because i JUST bought a gig of ram and now I hafta send it back and hope they give me a damn refund. :P

More to come. Thanks for any input. :) And yes, I'm gonna read the thread. I promise. ;)

There's no such thing as a motherboard with good onboard video.  :D And yes, AGP is outmoded.You must have the 5500. Wow, you are in for a treat when you see how awesome the game will look on a modern video card!

I'm going to be building a new system shortly, and I've made the decision to go with AMD because of the price, too. For what I can spend, I could get a slow Intel processor or a fast AMD one, so it's no contest.  Intel does make the fastest processor right now, but if you can't afford it, that doesn't do any good.  ;)

Hello dear,

Just want to thanks all of you for your good advice.  Thanks Mr. Pescado, after I read what you say about Vista, I decided to stay on XP  ;D

But for the rest, my technician will built me a brand new computer to rock my Sims  ;D ;D

I really want to play without any freeze or slow in the game  ::)

Some places you just have no choice for VISTA , what a pain that op is.  I have an xp cd some where and when I feel ready to get the hated securom off my new laptop , I will just reformat and use xp or many even be brave and use a linux op, but for now I thought I had better stop in  here and [size=10pt]thank everyone for their advice way back in July [/size] when I was purchasing a new laptop.  So far I have been lucky as far as I know regarding securom, but then it is all over hubbys desktop and laptop when I installed C&C 3 (damn EA).  I am too lazy at the moment to be reformatting 3 computers. ::)

Ilias- no freeze or slow?  :D You're SO funny!

But you might want to consider a 10,000 RPM drive, to help with that. They are more expensive, and smaller, but make a huge difference in Sims. The game reads from the hard drive a lot, so the faster drive is worth the cost, to me.

Are you telling me, even if I have the most ultimate computer, I will still have freeze or slow moments in my game???  :o :o  Geez but when you look at the preview Maxis gave us, you see that there is no freeze, no slow, nothing bad... are they liar?  :o :o :o  I would be surprise about the answer... :D

Some call is lying, some just call it careful editing.  ;)

Hey dears...

I want to present you my new baby...

NO freeze, NO slow, a real jewel!  I love it.  The game is so fast to load, wonderful graphics.  I never play before like I do now... its wonderful, I'm so happy  ;D ;D ;D

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2482/dxdiag1cj4.jpg)

(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7245/dxdiag2zs7.jpg)

Thanks once again for the time you took for me  ;D :D

I am like a child at christmas mouahhhh   :D :D :D :D

Are Alienware laptop motherboards proprietary?  My brother in law is giving me his old laptop if I want it (which is not going to be a gaming machine, so I'm not so worried about the specs), but he believes the motherboard is shot. 

Laptop mobos suck. It's cheaper just to buy a new computer than to fix the mobo in a laptop.

Well, not precisely proprietary, since all the companies pretty much use the same source for mobos, but it's very hard to find the motherboard, in the first place. Your best bet would be Ebay- try to see if you can pick up the same model cheap that has something like a broken screen or dead drives or something. I once made over $400 from a dead laptop, parceling out the parts on Ebay.  That is, if you're up to all the fiddly work of soldering and stuff it's going to take to get it to work.  :-\  If it were me, I'd say thanks, but no thanks.

Or take it, sell the parts yourself, and use the money to buy a cheap new laptop.  ;)

I would like to suggest unpinning this thread, as I am not inclined to keep it current. If someone else wants to take over, that's fine with me. Otherwise I think it should be left to sink down the list like any other thread.

Of course, if you wish to keep it as a catch-all repository for hardware discussion, that's fine too. I will change the subject heading to remove the date.

Just to brag...

I just got my new system put together. A cheaper dual-core, mid-range motherboard, nice video card (GeForce 8800), and 4 gb of ram.

I run seamlessly at max settings. With almost 1.5 gb of custom content, my initial load screen is 35 seconds,to the 'hood is about 5 seconds (its sparse), to a lot is about 5-15 seconds depending on the size. And running in a window I can task out to other stuff beautifully.

I'm pretty sure its all the extra RAM (which is cheap as hell now), but whatever the case it was worth it. No load times. About $900, shopping carefully and splurging a little on the case and keyboard/mouse and silly stuff.

It helps to have a hard drive that can load (at least) 50 MB per second, apparently.

How do you check how fast your hard drive is?

If you have a known amount of content loading, and you know the time it takes to load, it's a simple matter of division.

Otherwise, I guess you could use hdperf http://sourceforge.net/projects/hdperf/ or something like that.

Ok thanks ;)

I'm sorry to hear that you may or may not be keeping up with this thread, Hegelian. However, I hope someone can help me out a bit on this score:

I'm going to be buying a new computer in or around late Feb-early March. Unfortunately, it seems that every new computer comes prepackaged with Vista on it. I was thinking that I could simply use the WinXP System Restore Disks from my mother's computer (which is a Dell) to put XP back on it instead, but a local store dealer informed me that there may very well be an issue with the software it comes with not having XP drivers available. Would anyone be able to tell me if this computer (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10094071&catid=20217) would be able to take a System Restore XP installation on it with no trouble?

Why don't you just buy a custom built pc? You can choose the component and/or OS you want, cost less, and generally way more flexible. I hate branded pc :-X

Because a). I have no idea what I could afford to skimp on and what I couldn't (WTF? How the hell should I know what kind of 'power source' I need?), and  b). it looks to STILL be too expensive as it seems it won't even come with an OS, and c). I'm also looking to buy from a place that can offer me full customer support if I need it.

The main problem will be with using a Dell disk. It will be customized so that it can only be installed on Dells. So either Arr a full version or buy one. There's nothing on that computer that shouldn't have XP drivers.

Oh ok, but actually if you got it all figured out it's way easier and cheaper. Especially if you got some OS installation CDs, they're definitely come in handy :P

Regarding the drivers, I think you can obtain various drivers for XP from the net. I'm wondering though, any reason not to use Vista? I heard a lot of bad things about it, and some good things, and I actually have it installed on one of my PCs and it works just fine actually. I don't notice any slow down whatsoever.

http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista

Aggie, I was poking around the other day on the Dell website and it seems that they still offer computers with XP. I just ran a search for xp and I found this (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/winxp_inspndt?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&redirect=1). It seems that you also get some cusomization options, which could be a really good thing. For example, you'd definitely want to choose a better graphics card than the intel that comes standard with most Dells, IMO.

I don't think you would have any problems finding the necessary XP drivers from the various manufacturer's Web sites. You won't be able to use the recovery disc from another PC since it will have drivers for different hardware. Both XP and Vista ship with drivers that should run all the components in a new PC, although some will be generic drivers that won't tap all the capabilities of the hardware.

To be honest, I think the machine you linked to is overpriced by a fair amount for what you get. If you want control over your purchase, buy your machine from a local independent builder. Everyone works from the same stock of components anyway, except for some of the big vendors that use proprietary parts for some things (motherboards and power supplies most often). It may not be cheapest option, but if you get a good builder, you should be able to get the parts you want.

Not long ago I but together a shopping list for a new machine for a friend of mine. What you would pay for something like this from a local builder is hard to say—on the one hand, these are retail prices (although discounted) while your builder should be getting wholesale prices; on the other hand, the builder is going to include a markup on the parts plus the cost of labor and configuration (in other words, it is probably cheaper to buy the parts and assemble them yourself. but the builder will have installation disks for XP).

All prices in US dollars. Prices from Newegg on 03 January.

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: CAC-T05-WW
Item #: N82E16811119077
Mail-in Rebate
$54.99    -$10.00 Instant      $44.99
Comment:  Bought one for Reggikko's PC; very nice for the money.

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: GA-P35-DS3L
Item #: N82E16813128059
$99.99
Comment:  All Motherboard models seem to have their share of  bad units. This one seems to have fewer, and has connectors for legacy devices like parallel printers. Uses Intel's new P35 chipset.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail
Model #: BX80557E6750
Item #: N82E16819115029
$189.99
Comment:  Currently the best bang for the buck in a Core2 Duo (Quad core is unnecessary for your purposes).

MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E OC GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #: NX8600GT-T2D256E OC
Item #: N82E16814127286
Mail-in Rebate
$99.99
Comment:  AMD seems to have killed ATi as a quality brand. The new DX10 HD2xxx boards appear to have lousy drivers (at least for AGP)—welcome to the old ATi. As much as it pains me, I have to recommend nVidia for a current, DX10-capable video board. If you make the move to PCI-E, be sure your board has DDR3 and not DDR2 memory.

SeaSonic SS-500ES ATX12V 2.2 /EPS12V 2.91 500W Power Supply - OEM
Model #: SS-500ES
Item #: N82E16817151040
$99.99    -$30.00 Instant      $69.99
Comment:  Not much name recognition in the US, but popular in Europe. Manufactures for proment brands--Corsair, Antec, Silverstone. This is an 80%+ efficiency model, the new trend in PSUs. Similar to Antec's Earthwatts series (made by SeaSonic).

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
Model #: TWIN2X2048-6400C4
Item #: N82E16820145034
$87.00    -$10.00 Instant      $77.00
Mail-in Rebate
Comment: Good price for quality PC2 6400 RAM. Check motherboard manufacturer's Web site for compatibility
   
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD740ADFD
Item #: N82E16822136033
$149.99
Comment:  Not enormous, but the fastest SATA drive you can buy. Use it for the OS and apps (I doubt you have 60 Gigs of application files). Don't worry about your SATA drives not having NCQ (native command queuing); it actually slows down data transfer on a single-user desktop system.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD5000AAKS
Item #: N82E16822136073
$104.99    -$5.00 Instant      $99.99
Comment:  A good blend of capacity, performance, and low power consumption, with a better warranty than the Samsung SpinPoint T series.
   
Subtotal:    $831.93

Drop the Raptor and go with a single drive to knock $150 off the price. I did not include a DVD writer, which is about $30.

Unfortunately, Hegelian, cheap is the main consideration here. The only local independent builder here I've found hasn't even bothered to return my inquiring email, so it doesn't look like they're too damn eager for my business. I also cannot use newegg since they don't ship to Canada. Jolrei was nice enough to provide me with a few computer-building sites for Canadians, but (like I said earlier) I know absolutely nothing about shit like power sources and whatnot, and what I can afford to skrimp on and what I can't. Since a custom-built PC would not include an OS, the price I could afford to spend on it would go down dramatically (by the price of a WinXP OS disk). I don't really think I'll be able to get what I want in a computer for a mere $550 here (since I'd still have to spend $250+ on XP).  :'(

Overpriced or not, that computer I linked to seems to be the cheapest PC that I can find that still has most of them items I want in it (I'd still be upgrading the video card), but now that I know I can't use a System Restore Disk on any pre-purchased computer, my price range has now dropped from $800 to $550.

ETA: On the other hand, if I can get this Win XP OS disk (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10069680&catid=21236) on its own (and it's not just an "EP"), I might have a better chance.

The thing about getting XP on your computer is that the product key needs to match the version on the disk. For example, a product key for an XP Pro disk will not work with an installation from an XP Home disk.

Now, if you already have a legitimate XP disk that is the OS installation disk and not a "Recovery CD", you may be able to install WinXP on a new computer. Some OEM XP disks look for manufacturer-specific hardware (the motherboard BIOS) and some do not. For example, we have the XP disk that came with an HP desktop PC, and could not use it for a machine with a non-HP motherboard. However, I was able to get a functioning XP Home disk image via bit torrent and used that with the legitimate registration key we already had. The physical disk is just the delivery medium—what you buy from Microsoft is the user license, which we had. We just needed a disk that provided an installation that would accept our product key.

One of the reasons (but not the only reason) we can't use just any OEM XP disk for any PC is that some of these OEM versions of Windows do not require input of of the product key (this is the case for my HP laptop) or even activation iirc (again, I don't think the HP laptop required activation). But if you have a legitimate product key, all you need to do is find an installation disk that will work with your key.   ;D

Heh—that's the same motherboard I have.

You need an AGP card. I'm using a Radeon X800GTO (made by Sapphire). You probably can't find these anymore, though, except perhaps on eBay. AGP cards are disappearing, but even so getting one that will play TS2 well is going to be difficult for US$50. Your best bet is probably a Radeon X1650. The nVidia AGP models in that price range seem to have had some driver problems when running TS2.

ARRRRRRRR! You should never use a "legitimate" key. Microsoft knows where each and every last key is and if you ever leak that onto the Internet, THEY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.

Ahh, Invisigoth, you know I love you. That site would be perfect, save for one little snafu...I don't see an option to ship to Canada.  :'(  Other than that, it would be groin-grabbingly perfect.

I'm surprised no one has capitalized on a shipping service where packages are received at a US address and then reshipped to the Empire. Seems like there's way too many Imperials who want to buy something, but can't.

Aggie, just go to the Dell Canadian site and check it out.  They do ship to Canada.

Just came across one the other night that performs this service for Oceania. There might be something similar for Canada.

Yes, but I've yet to stumble upon any computer that offers XP instead of Vista.


Did not know of this. I am intrigued and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Just another page I stumbled upon: http://www.buyusa.co.nz/about/

PS Wrong about Oceania, it's just for New Zealand. I thought someone may have done one for Canada or Europe.

I just ordered a new Alienware computer with XP Pro  :D  and from the looks of it they'll ship to Canada  http://www.alienware.com/main.aspx   (you can Select a Country: for the site)

Those computers look so nice, Sleepycat.  :)  Sadly, they seem to be all out of my price range, as none of them can be downgraded and the cheapest one I see is $1,200.

Alienware = RIPOFF

Aggie, what is your current price range for a new computer? I have alot of time on my hands and will go searching if you need help.

$800 including shipping. I may be able to go as high as $850, but that must include everything. Thanks, Jess Maree.

What do you have right NOW? $800 is well within the range to upgrade to a high-end motherboard/CPU and graphics combo. Combined with part-salvage from your existing computer and you should be good to go.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v387/denimjo/MyComputer.jpg)

Aggie, I built a custom Dell desktop with price in mind. It does not include programs such as MS Word or security programs, I assumed you will be able to use the programs you have now. Unfortunatly, it comes with Vista. It didnt give me the option to change it to XP.

I gave you the best graphics card option they had, which is a 256MB ATI RADEON HD 2400 XT and 3gig of RAM. It comes with a 19 inch monitor (to upgrade the graphics card and RAM I couldn't use the 20 inch, it pushed the price over $900)

All up it comes to $879. I'm not sure if this includes delivery or not, I'm still searching.

Here (http://ecomm.dell.com/dellstore/basket.aspx?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs&itemtype=CFG&oid=4784fe71-e57f-4bff-bd0e-566e80257397) is the desktop summary. Click on "adjust system" to see everything and edit if need be.

Since it is Dell, I got savings from ordering online so you have to order it by Feb 15 to get everything at that price. It sucks, but it saves money.

If, buy some chance, that link wont show up, I can e-mail it to you. To save it I had to save it to "my cart".

Hope this is along the lines of what you are looking for. If not, I'm more than happy to go searching again :)

ETA: If programs such as MS Office and security are needed, I can downgrade the RAM and graphics card to fit them in.

You've stumbled upon the crux of my dilemma, Jess Maree. I don't want to purchase a Vista-laden computer. The Dell.com site has the option of installing XP, but Dell.ca does not. And you're correct; I don't need any security programs or Word, and I also do not need a monitor.

I appreciate your help very much. I'm going to do some investigating to see if purchasing the parts on their own would be a better bet than just buying a new computer outright since I'll likely be buying it after February 15th.

You're very welcome, Aggie. Since I STILL have way too much time on my hands, I might do some searching on serperate parts. Just because I'm nice (and very, very bored.)

Don't purchase Dell, Dell = shit. Also, don't bother buying an OS. Why would you want one? You already HAVE one!

Dell = shit? Any Dell computers I've worked on have all been fine. Say, what brand of computer do you use, JM?

Have you opened it up and looked inside? The last Dell I tried working on had a drive mounted in front of the vents and the cables were inaccessible. I had the break the case open just to service it properly.

The fact that you would even ASK that question demonstrates why you are STUPID. "Brand"? What is this BRAND you speak of? REAL computers don't have BRANDS! Accept no Kewian-based substitutes!

Actually, doesn't Alienware also = Dell?  I'm pretty sure Dell bought them about a year or so ago.

If that is true, I am glad I got my Alienware three years ago.  ;D

Although, the only reason I bought an Alienware in the first place was because I didn't have any PC savvy friends at the time (at least, none that were more savvy than I). So I bought Alienware because I figured that Gateway < Dell < Alienware. At least Alienware doesn't try to sell you DISCONTINUED HARDWARE like Gateway.

Now, I have a PC guy I trust. He runs his own little PC Repair shop.