More Awesome Than You!

For those who bought, installed, and decided to keep FFS, here's your patch:

http://thesims2.ea.com/update/getpatch.php?appVersion=1.4&languageCode=

wow, and I just checked the front page 5 minutes ago and didn't see it... stupid internet connection.

Took them long enough.  I'm still not installing the FFP until they remove the fact that it creates a new directory, which I'm not holding my breath waiting for.  You'll want to download this if you have the FFP though, especially if you were waiting for this to install it.  Let's hope they didn't break anything.

It's a huge patch for something that apparently only fixes two problems...

Yeah, what's up with that...

hmmm, maybe it's because it was just replacing the whole file rather than just patching it? (the other patches asked for the cd to fix the modified object.package file, this one didn't ask for the cd and some of the files had been modified; not objects.package though)

Yes, well I'm having trouble with the patch.  ::)  I ran the installation, only to get the suggestion that maybe I should uninstall/reinstall FFS.

Why am I not surprised by this?

Hrm...I didn't get that message.  ???

Well, I don't know why I got the message, but I'm wary of uninstalling/reinstalling in case I really mess something up.  Not to mention, it seems like a whole lot of work to back everything up.  But I'm not very awesome at all, so I'm open to suggestions.  Otherwise, I think I'll just leave my current installation alone, as it's not noticeably broken.

When you need to patch a game that only has objects, you know you have a problem.

I'm getting the same error message. I just installed TS2 on this computer and haven't changed a thing in the game so far - I don't even have my downloads copied over yet.

Edit: I downloaded the patch again and this time it worked. Dunno what the problem was with the file I had downloaded earlier.

Maybe they messed up the patch and then patched the patch.  ;)  But thank you for telling me -- I will try downloading it again.

Edit:  Yep -- it worked when I downloaded it again.  Thanks!

I had the same problem with the 2nd NL patch.  I had downloaded it on my other computer and moved it over the network to my main computer, so I figured it got shredded somehow during that move.  (other files have done that before)  I finally just said "screw it" and waited to install OFB for that patch.

But yes.  Whenever in doubt.  Re-dowload.

Has anyone had the problem mentioned here?  http://www.sims2workshop.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=5060#5060

Lord I'm so glad I didn't buy this.
Leave it to Maxis to break a pack of objects..then try to fix it and break something else.

They should take it as a warning sign to not to anymore of these object packs.

Looks like they are going down in flames lol.

Crud... well... both my sister and I actually got FFS as a gift for our collective birthdays. (Mine was two weeks ago and hers is today, well... for the next 6ish minutes :P). Our cousin got it for us, also cuz it's on sale for $9.99 at Circuit City. The website still lists it as $19.99 but the weekly ad (the flyer that comes with your weekly paper) shows it as $9.99. Also... OFB is on sale as well. I think it was $24.99 or whatever. Anyhew, I would have told my cousin not to get it because it wasn't worth it and it was buggy, and not to waste his money, but since he showed me it was on sale, I thought it'd be fine.

But now that there's even more bugs, from a stupid stuff pack (what is the sp supposed to stand for anyway?) I'm glad I haven't installed it yet. I put it off because I was defraggin my harddrive first. I even downloaded the patch, but so much for that. :P

I guess we won't be installing it anytime soon. Maybe I should have my cousin return them and get his money back. ::)

Ste

I haven't heard of that problem anywhere.  :-\ 

And SP stands for Shopping Pack.

Ahhh. I probably read that somewhere, but I couldn't remember. Bleh. Stupid shopping packs. Talk about falling short of expectations. What a total craptastic rip off of an idea. Bastards. :P

Anyways... don't you have it installed? Have your dressers broken? I mean, I figure if a well known modder reports the problem, it must be real. No? *shrugs*

Does anyone else who has FFS installed noticed this or any other problems? How sad is it that we would even have to be worried about potential bugs from a shopping pack. Ok... I get the idea that adding the Inventory system would make sense. Since these packs would presumably add more objects and what not. At least that's somewhat related. But did they really need to include the other stuff? I suppose it's a nice idea for those who don't have all the other EPs... but I think it just makes the game more susceptible to potential bugs like this, which is ridiculous when these packs should essentially only be adding custom content.

I was hoping that the shopping packs would contain tons of new objects, clothes, wallpapers, etc. that were related based on a specific theme(s) and make them actually worth the money. These should be just custom content, and should just add to the list of objects, clothes, wallpapers, etc. without causing retarded bugs like these. I think that would have made the most sense. I know people have complained about this before and already said the same things, but I just felt annoyed enough to reiterate. :P

Ste

Syberspunk, I couldn't agree with you more.   :-\

I wasn't going to buy it, but my husband brought it home for me last night as a gift, bless him.  I've installed and everything seems to be OK, though I haven't tried the dressers yet. 

I can't for the life of me figure out why the hell the patch is 28MB when the disc only installs 4MB!  WTF?  I'm not downloading a huge patch that only fixes two issues - actually only one as the clothing issue does not seem to be fixed.  It's ludicrous.  I'm assuming another, more effective patch will be released soon.

Oh jeebus h. chrissakes. You mean it doesn't even Fix what it was supposed to? Rassafrazzfricfrackfruckingflibbertygibbits!!!!  I'm so :-X I can't even bother to curse properly.

Plus... it just seems overkill and retarded to have to update the objects.package and what not just to add some new objects. This just stinks even more so of wanting to cash in on loyal customers and trying to force all individuals to purchase these packs. If I'm not mistaken, you could have potentially bought one Holiday pack and installed it on several machines since you didn't need the disk to run the actual game. Now that FFS actually requires the disc, every individual machine (that runs a legitimate copy of the game without no-cd tools) now has to have it's own separate copy. This just totally reeks of greedy, moneygrubbiness.  >:(

I mean, these things are just objects! Objects! If it is just a requirement so that the official Maxis objects don't get that custom content asterisk * thingie showing up in Buy Mode and Body Shop, I would rather they only stuffed the cd with a simple installer and tons (read: at least 100 plus) items on the cd rather than a whole expansion type install, overwriting the executable, objects package, and requiring the cd just to run the damned thing. Ugh. It's not like they would seriously lose out on money if they had gone the much simpler, less greedy route. I mean, it's bad enough that they're charging us for content that should have already been included in OFB!

Bleh! Bleh! Well... I'm glad that at least this time I didn't pay for it myself. I suppose as long as I get these things free as a gift or what not, I won't complain... too much. :P Otherwise, if the packs continue this way, with buggy, barely minimal new content, then I pretty much will never buy these stupid things of my own volition. I guess I'll have to stick with just the not-so full greedily stripped down and lacking in new content EPs and protest these damned Shopping packs. ::) Who's with me?!? [/rant]

Ste

I'm there.

Count me in too! I won't even bother with this stupid, bug-ridden, no good piece of utter and absolute crap!

I am with ya. I was offered the original as a gift and I rejected it because it brings more troubles than benefits.But they are coming up with more of these.

Anyone remember the Glamour shopping pack due in June?

Mine was a gift as well and still sits unopened on my desk. I see no reason to install this piece of junk and incur more problems than I already have.

I protested the first pack! Loudly too, I might add. Crap is crap and I saw it coming. My protest ended with a verbal fight over it all with MaxiodTom over at MTS2.

MaxiodTom finished up with "I just won't post anymore." Literally--that's what he said. Sounded to me like a pissed off teenie bopper. lol. Doesn't it sound like that to you?

Of course, it's me that has suffered for it all--MTS2 started censoring my posts, all my posts, even if they had nothing to do with Maxis or the Maxiod. So, I basically quit posting.

MTS2 is getting on my nerves too. I started using the forums and find out images are disabled for me.  ::)

Gee, everyone is getting Sims packs as gifts?  I don't know if I should consider myself lucky or not that no one buys such gifts for me.  :-\  Of course, I wouldn't mind getting a regular EP as a gift, but I don't know anyone who can afford to buy them for me.  Well, I guess my ex would have before he was my ex.  ::)  But that is moot now.  I haven't even bothered to see if anyone has this pack out there floating around.

Well, I did hear of someone with this pack up for download.  If you're interested, PM me and I'll see if I can get them to make it available to you.   ;D

I think you should consider yourself lucky because you can get a more useful gift  ::)
Besides, you are going to find it at ur desktop pretty soon due to post above  :P

Well, let the whole world know you only love sims and you'll see the gift offers coming...

Thanks Blue, but I think I'll hold off on this one. ;)  It sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

Meh, no skin off my nose.  *Nothing* to do with me.  :P

I don't think it was fair to take it out on him. It's not like he makes the decision.

am I the only one who thinks that the fact that this pack is actually uninstallable is an advantage?

unlike the holiday pack where it lodged itself in so firmly the only way to get rid of it was to uninstall everything?

Ok I succumbed. :-[  It has been sitting here for 3 weeks and I dutifully backed up my game and gave in to the temptation to see for myself.  Nothing changed. (crosses fingers and clings to the wood trim on the desk for dear life)

This happened to our game a couple of days ago but only with the half dressers introduced in OFB - it had nothing to do with FFP.  The cc dressers are fine too

Hello?? I didn't start it! HE did!

A group of us were discussing what a rip off the pack was and how Maxis used to GIVE away items and packs for Sims1. HE stepped in, rudely, and IMO basically tried to hush us up from putting ppl off buying the damn thing. Maybe you just had to be there..

So if you wanna go get all snuggly with a Maxiod, you go for it. But DON'T go putting blame where it doesn't belong, even if you did so inadvertantly... or on purpose.

I read that thread MB and I agree MaxoidTom was being VERY cagy

Oh Thank goodness someone else was there too! Thank you! ;D

Cagyness, trickery, lies, and deceit are the tools of the trade for a Maxian. What did you expect? It's like how you tell when a politician is lying...

 ;D Yes, I'm convinced that's the Maxis way.

Could be there was no beta testing because EA recently laid off 350 workers and its stock is plummeting:

http://gamesnews.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=454988&page=0

Okay, I guess I wasn't there, and you are probably right in this situation.  I just think the general anti-Maxis attitude on there forums had gotten out of hand lately. I mean, I understand being angry when you buy a product and it is really buggy, but saying everything they do is crap seems unfair. After all, they did make the game we all like so much, and there are a lot of things about the base game that are really great. They are a company that puts this stuff out to make money, and it isn't like anyone is entitled to the stuff they put out being free. I am irritated about stuff being taken out of OFB and moved to the holiday pack, and appalled that both OFB and FFP went to the shelves with so many bugs that seem like they should have been easily caught- but it is their product, and if they want to sell crappy holiday packs, etc, that is their prerogative. I see this happening on boards for a lot of computer games, actually- people seem to think that the game should be built exactly as they want it, and that they are entitled to insult the developers if it is different from whatever personal vision they have of what the game should be. If it weren't for the bugs and stuff that seemed to fit with OFB, I would not have any problem with the FFP at all- but people were trashing it way before this stuff was even known. If you don't like the objects, then don't buy it. Insulting the developers and saying everything they do is crap is just rude, especially when you are obviously playing and enjoying the game that they spent months/years creating. Considering the way a lot of people act online, I find it hardly surprising that developers increasingly seem to not give a damn what their fans think.

After reading all of this I am very glad I did not get this one. I'm definitely sure I will pass on this one and any other little packs they come out with.  I didn't even consider getting the holiday one.  I had no interest in it or FFP.  They just seem to be a waste of money if they are not even going to have added interactions and such. 

I haven't seen anything in either pack that was worth the money they want for them.

Not quite. They're playing the game the developers buggered up and then shoved out the door, AFTER someone ELSE has fixed it for them!

Otherwise, the game would be unplayable awful and I'd have probably bailed by now like I did with TS1.

The FFS was very easy to find on BitTorrent, and it was no harder to crack than an expansion.  Sure, this prevented some piracy but it's not even worth installing because of it in my opinion.  Repeated stuff and possible conflicts with hacks are not worth some objects and clothing that I will never use.

Why hell didn't they recall the thing if it had such a fatal bug?  This is one of the reasons I dislike EA, they've got the money to do recalls but just won't do them.  I believe they did go with FFS to copy Pescado, heck they called a TS1 expansion SS for the success of Script Station which they tried to ban before.  I swear, Sony did this also with it's PSP.

I've got to say, if it wasn't for dedicated volunteers like Pescado then I wouldn't even be updating my game with new expansions.

Are you still upset about that?  I made a simple comment about piracy and it got a little blown out of proportion.  Whether or not the shopping packs are worth the money is up to you all to decide (and it seems your decision has been made).  I apologize for contributing to the flame war and will try not to get pulled into such things again.  It's just very tough seeing people bash the thing you spent many many late nights working to create.  Again, my apologies.

Hey Tom,

Any idea if there are plans to allow users to change the pool walls again? It seems to have been broken with OFB, it used to be that you could use the elevation cheat, lift up the pool wall a few clicks and repaint the pool walls as you do any other wall, that sadly no longer works.

Isn't that a bit of a stretch there? "Many late nights"? By my information, shopping packs contain little more than a few skin recolors and objects, all of which are essentially remeshes of existing code. A scan of the objects file reveals there isn't actually all that much new, less than a dozen actual codes, the rest simply objects. Maybe a *FEW* late nights. I'd say "many" is an exaggeration, unless MAYBE you work for the art team. But then again, what the hell else would you do on a late night, anyway? You say this like it's a cost, as opposed to something you'd do simply from being bored out of your skulls on a late night. And if it's tough seeing people bash the thing you've worked on, I'd say you definitely need to start thinking of a new career: The only commentary of any value is the bashing. That's why "Thanks This Is Great" is officially discouraged here.

Meh, things get blown out of proportion all the time on the Internet, mostly because people either intend to incite chaos, or you don't have the benefit of seeing someone's body language and tone to determine how they're saying something.  It's hard to not take it seriously (and believe me, I know).

MaxoidTom, I really liked the thread before NL in which we could talk about what bugs we had noticed and being able to report them to the very makers of the game we all enjoy playing and I'm glad you are out and about in the community to read this kind of stuff.

So, for what's it worth (and I did submit a tech report about this as well), here's my bug/feature I would really like to have fixed.  Pre-OFB, the lot boundaries were across the street, so when building our lots, we could move around the mailbox and trashcan and all the furniture out to the road if we needed to while renovating the lot.  OFB seems to have changed the boundaries so that now the sidewalk is the limit.  In one of the chats, one of the Maxoids seemed surprised by this and said s/he would look into this, but it wasn't addressed in the patch.  Can you please look into this and perhaps address this issue?  Thanks.

I meant many late nights, in general, for all the EPs/SPs, because of the quick schedule and what not.  You may or may not understand, or choose to understand, but that is your prerogative.  I didn't actually work on FFP, as I've moved onto another project (feel free to bash me here as well).  I also didn't work on the object code that you all play with and modify, but on the game engine itself.

Ah, yes, the ongoing "whiny EA employees" saga. You ought to pass along my "rent-a-hobo" suggestion to the suits. It would do wonders for morale. There's just nothing quite like the inspiring image of a homeless man begging for liquor money and rooting through dumpsters for food scraps to remind people how good they have it.

BlueSoup, did you know there's a fix by Windkeeper on MTS2 for this? I believe it's called OFBlockedtilesfix.

Upset over arguing with you?? Oh hell no. Upset over suffering consequences at MTS2 and S2C I shouldn't be made to suffer? A bit, yes. And our 'argument' was a bit more than as you state here "a simple comment that got out of hand". But whatever. I don't want to argue again. BTW, I never considered it a 'flame' Did you?? Were you flaming me in any way? if so I missed it. And I didn't flame you either--Maxis as a whole  maybe....yes, ok. I have formed the opinion that as a goup, a whole, Maxis lacks big time. I hate to see it because I loved the sims. And I would again, but Maxis, as a whole, is screwing them up. JM, Numenor, Inge, SimPE crew, hundreds of names to type out continue to fix the Sims and make them still fun. Having to deal with bugs, glitches, and screwups that require hard work and start overs and patience while the great modders in this community 'fix' what Maxis broke with every EP is way way old.

Gotta love JM and his standing right up and voicing what he did above. Hats off, big bow.

If Maxis would... what get more funding to hire more talented coders? take their time? beta test? all the above? fill in the blank? And put out a GOOD EP they'd have us all over again. Don't see it happening.... Another big step in the right direction: Make it ADULT rated as it should be to rake in the bucks

I, for one, am glad to see you coming out of hiding. Hopefully, you can take the heat and hang in here. Threads DO get heated as they tend to do for a good give and take on any subject. Makes for good reading and educated choice making.

I can understand being unhappy about severly bugged games, as this pack seemed to be. On the other hand, the developers were very prompt about addressing many of the issues. Whining about the issue seems rather pointless at this point. What hasn't been said a million times over? BlueSoup has the right attitude. She politely explained her problem and asked for a solution.

I can't abide the people that complain about the pack even existing. These packs make perfect sense to me. People that want the extra stuff can get it. Those that don't want the objects, don't have to worry about it. It's not like an EP, where you'll miss out on new gameplay features if you don't buy it. I approve of this system. I wish they had done it earlier. Imagine if they had put the tacky "retro" stuff from Uni into a pack rather than the EP! Now I can look forward to the next EP, knowing that it won't have a horrible nautical theme in it because, no, I don't like the nautical stuff so I did NOT buy this pack.

Yes, I know there's a fix, and I have it, but I want a Maxis fix.  :)

Maxoid Tom,

I want you to know that the main reason *I* didn't buy this pack is because of the lack of content. I also understand it adds some of the interactions that are available in other expansion packs, and I have to say, that I really don't think that was such a great idea.

The reason for that is, that if people want those interactions, they should buy the expansion packs that have them. Those of us who already have all of the EP's already have all the interactions, so why should we have to pay extra to get the same thing twice?

I would have bought FFS in a heartbeat if it had had more *quality* objects, including EP specific items such as new cars for NightLife, and even some new meshes such as baby strollers and bunk beds. That would have been worth the $20 or so that EA/Maxis charged for the booster pack.

But, with me being able to pay that much to download *quality* custom content from sites such as The Well Dressed Sims and The Sims Resource, why should I pay Maxis for very little content, most of which I would never even bother to download from my favorite sites?

I honestly hope that the next booster pack, if Maxis decides to make any more, doesn't contain any of the options already available in other packs, and does contain more quality content, such as bunk beds, strollers, and stuff we can't normally get for the game unless we download it from a CC site. I think I am pretty safe in saying that Maxis has the potential to compete with even the most popular CC sites and give them a run for their money. I know that there are Simmers who would rather pay top dollar to get all of their content from Maxis because they are afraid of downloading from fan websites.

So, if you guys decide to do another booster pack, I hope you'll make some more sophisticated and more realistic items (such as Ikea-like furniture), of the type which discriminating adults such as myself normally have to go to Custom Content websites to download for free. I would guarantee you I would buy a booster pack with 125 items if it was mainly objects that people have been asking for in the Suggest an Idea forum. I'd even buy a working washer and dryer! Now *THAT'S* dedication for ya!

Oh yes, one more thing: I don't suppose you could add an option where we could delete Maxis made clothing we don't want in our games and would never use? All those animal customs in OFB come to mind. I'll never use them, and see no reason why they should take up so much space in my CAS clothing bin.

Wow. I'm really perplexed here. I just have to say... I actually agree with everything that jarsie has said above. Go figure. :P

I just want to reiterate the key ideas of having quality objects, that are as bug-free as possible, and in greater quantity, that would actually make it worth $20 bucks, which is about half as much as a full-EP.

The worst thing about FFS is the pricing, the quantity, AND the poor quality of the content that was offered. It's like asking us to bend over and take it, repeatedly, by everyone that worked on the damned thing. And for most other people, I'm sure they don't like or appreciate that. ;)

In all seriousness, I also have to agree with Blue. I also thought there was a great exchange during/after the NL release. And it was nice to see that many issues were addressed by the patches. It was nice to see an OFB patch released as well, a lot sooner than previous patches had been released. And although it's also nice that there was a patch for FFS, it seems that, out of all the products released, many people find it unsettling that a patch would even be required for a shopping pack. As much as MaxoidTom is expressing the 'hurt feelings' for lack of a better description, that Maxians may be upset about consumers expressing their disastisfaction... what about the consumers 'hurt feelings' or at least the feelings of disappointment, being taken for granted, or worse being played for suckers as 'early adopters' who buy into the pre-ordering or 'loyalty' to a franchise. Now many of us may make fun of those 'sheep' and what not... but it also seems unfair, at least in my not so humble opinion, that because of them EA/Maxis (or whomever is responsible) would seemingly take advantage of this and try to milk us for all our money.

Personally, that is the overwhelming sentiment that I feel people are most upset about. Regardless of whether it is true or not, it feels like greed, as cliched as that may sound, is the motivation rather than pride and customer satisfaction. Feel free to point and laugh (at me), but I still like to believe that there are many gaming companies out there who make games for the sake of making great, entertaining, enjoyable, challenging games that make consumers feel like they get their money's worth rather than simply capitalizing on a guaranteed-to-seel franchise. *shrugs* If this keeps up, I may have to take my kicky bag, and my bag full o' simoleons and go home. :P

Ste

And how's it going? Any fiery balls?

My two cents specifically related to the FFS is I received it as an Easter gift.  I installed it after the patch came out but since have not played at all because I am terrified of the game stopping issues that I am hearing of.

The OFB bugs about did me in and they did stop me from playing for a while and slowly I started getting back in the game as the patch and other mods fixes came out.  But the disappointment in FFS from before it was ever released to now has been so disheartening that it has spoiled the game for me entirely now.  I just uninstalled it.

I also understand that the franchise is just that, a franchise.  But it won't remain a franchise without customer loyalty.

Jarsie:  IKEA?
/me stabs self in the eye
IKEA is a blight on this Earth! Just because you have been sucked into thinking furniture that is soulless and evil looks good doesn't mean the rest of us have to buy into it!

That having been said, I like most of the maxis furniture, and I was amused by the retro stuff that came with uni... I liked the mission-style furniture that came with OFB, we have a lot of things like that in our home. The only reason you see so much modern-type furniture on CC sites is because they are low poly and easy to create.  This is what I meant by all the bashing that happens on the site: just because you don't like the style of something doesn't neccessarily make it crap, and I think it's unfair to bash the company if you don't like kiddie stuff. I also think if you happened to see content like the ninja/ ape/ princess clothing on a CC site, you'd be really impressed by it, because it is a departure from the sort of thing you can find everywhere else.

I think it is legitimate to complain about bugs, feeling burned because more/ fewer objects should be in the expansion pack, etc (I'm still kind of upset about the magnolia tree). Saying you would prefer a different style is okay, but just because they haven't done a modern/ trendy theme yet doesn't make everything else bad. I personally felt that the stuff in the FFP was not enough to convince me to buy it, because even though I thought some of the items were cute, what I really want from Maxis is new animations, etc. And it was irritating to see a separate pack for kiddie stuff when they seemed to be building on that theme for OFB, only being sold for 20 bucks... if you think about it, the content/dollar ratio is a lot lower.

I've tested at least one family in all the 'hoods and so far no probs. 
I can say that the problem with the dressers not working isn't to do with the FFP because it happened in my game before I installed it.

Ella-true, I said Ikea-like because it's the only brand name furniture I could come up with off the top of my head. The point I was trying to make to Maxoid Tom is that Maxis is capable of coming up with better stuff that would appeal to a wide range of people. As for me being impressed by ape and princess costumes if they were available at a CC site, just because they're different, nah. I regularly cruise CC sites, and believe me, I've learned not to download anything that I don't intend to use...and I have no use for an ape or a princess costume.

You're welcome to worship at he altar of Maxis all you want, but let's face it...the company screwed the pooch on this one. They're trying to sell to a younger less sophisticated customer, when it's the older more sophisticated customer that has not only the simoleans, but the inclination to buy the stuff...*if* they feel it's worth the money. Maybe, just maybe...this will teach them to pay attention to the customer base that has the most bucks....or maybe not.

Yes, selling things to kids is a waste of time. They don't have income or money, and thus do not make reliable customers.

ah fuck FFS. too glitchy. why did you buy it in the first place anyway. its such a useless hack! needs 1 feature for me to get but if I was given FFS I would of snap the disk in half and burn it in the nearest kiln >:(

I've had it on my secondary test system (ie, my laptop) for a while now, and have played my entire Pleasantview neighborhood & university, and no problems that I've seen.  I still haven't installed it in my primary game on my desktop, though, because I don't think it really adds anything I want.

Actually I have read where 10 to 15 year olds are prime targets for advertising (in general, not just vidoe games) and marketing because while they don't have money of their *own*, mommy and daddy are more then willing to fork out the dough to make junior shutup happy. This makes them one of the highest economic consumer groups out there, so you can see why this type of thing would be geared towards teens and pre-teens instead of you know, a 38 year old woman, like me.
However, when my 12 year old daughter and I recently looked at the FFP at our local Walmart, she took one look at it and said, "They're running out of ideas, aren't they?" lol.

That works right up until they try to buy another one, and parents look at it and say, "Didn't we just buy you one of those?". Certainly it is pointless to attempt to pursue any kind of brand loyalty with them because they have no money to spend on it. Besides, the typical player for TS2 isn't 12, anyway.

Really? I couldn't tell that by reading the BBS. ;)

Age, not intellectual age.

Americans are basically retarded, so they come across as 12-year olds to the civilized world.

Well, it's nice to know that ignorance and bigotry aren't limited to the states, in any case.  ::)

Not all Americans are dumd. (I'm not American, btw. :P) I know several that are quite smart.

On the subject that Maxis seems to be selling their to kids, I think it's true, as KellyQ said, while they may not have their own money, if their family is well off, mummy and daddy are usually happy to fork out the money for games, clothes and well, anything really. So it would make sense that Maxis sells to young teens and pre-teens.

Well put, MyFireElf; I was kind of left speechless in the face of such a nasty and uncalledfor comment.

This isn't the first time he's made a stereotypical comment such as this.  I'm an American, and I'd like to think that I appear to have a little more intelligence than a 12 year old.  ::)

Thank you, MyFireElf, Onion Girl, and KellyQ.  Well said.

On behalf of all Americans, I'm offended. some of us are really quite intelligent!
On behalf of all those who aren't intelligent, I'm offended. Take a moment, Jordi, to actually look up the word "retarded" and then THINK BEFORE POSTING! While you're at it, look up the words "rude" and "stereotype" as well as the phrases "uncalled for" and "stuff it."

Well said ladies!!   >:( Jordi that was not called for!

Hi, American with 142 IQ here. I have seen absolutely NO difference on the internet between  the intelligence of Americans and the intelligence of anyone else. Everyone's an ass, but some more so than others. Good job putting yourself in the "more so" category. As for civilized, it's generally not considered terribly civilized to denigrate the intelligence of the citizens of an entire country.

If EA would actually hire enough people to do the work they demand, and treat them with a minimal level of decency, we most probably wouldn't have to deal with buggy, low-grade crap like FFS (Family Fun Stuff, that is, not Flying Fish Systems.) No, J.M., I don't think sweatshops are a legitimate way to do business ::).

Regarding the "piracy protection" garbage: first, it doesn't work. None of it does. Stardock recently released Galactic Civilizations 2 with NO piracy protection on the CD, because that protection alienates customers, is bugged to hell, and doesn't work. Instead, you have to register the game to get special content, and that content really is high-quality. They're a small company that actually knows how to do business; Galactic Civilizations 2 sold, and is selling, incredibly well, and very many people are buying it specifically because of Stardock's great customer service attitude. It's past time for giants like EA to wake up and smell dollars they're missing because of treating customers like criminals.

Actually Jordi you've contradicted your own statement. You've just proven with your rude remark that there are immature jerkwads everywhere, even in your country.  ::)

Back in the day, Maxis released Sim Life like that... sigh

Stupid people are everywhere. Americans just make it more obvious because there's more of them and they're culturally conditioned to be more shameless about it.

I see dumb people! They're everywhere, they walk around just like everyone else, they don't even know they're dumb!

And this is exactly the reason everyone should never leave their home unless it is absolutely imperative!

LOL!

Or the twisted version: "I touch dumb people"

Sadly, being dumb is embraced. Smart kids are called nerds and get beat with sticks.

Eww.

Even smart people learn to hide their smarts in public school in America if they want to survive. I still haven't seen Americans be any dumber than any other people on the internet. When I think back to the most stupid, most obnoxious people I've met in cyberspace, I think Africans and South Americans are the only people who have any right to feel superior. There are dumb people everywhere.

*looks around what appears to be an empty room*
There are? So, if I'm the only one here, then that means... :o...I think I'll invite the neighbors over.  ;D

o_0 *is glad she didn't get involved in discussion  ::)

I'll just say it is easy to criticize things and much harder to actually do those things.  I come to these boards because I am interested in what the community thinks, even though I'm not officially on the Sims 2 projects any longer.  Most of the time it's fine, but it gets very tiring when people complain that:

a.) We/I suck and are horribly incompetent
b.) We obviously didn't test the game because there are bugs, we didn't include this feature that you believe is necessary, etc.
c.) We charge too much
d.) We didn't include enough "stuff"

Just telling you how I feel, whether you believe it is whining or not.  As to hiding, well, you can call it what you want.  I call it doing something else, like working on my new project.

However, I do feel that you have every right to complain or rant about the game, Maxis, EA, etc. because you are the consumer.  If you bought it, complain all you want.  It's when the attacks get personal that, well, you know.

I'm sure many of are grateful (at least I am) that you still take interest in our opinions and that you have actively been participating in several forums across the community. Personally, I haven't played many PC games and thus, I haven't been active myself on any online community revolving around a game until TS2. So I guess I'm somewhat amazed that a gaming company would have such 'personal contact' at all. Despite what Pescado may say, I still think it's great that you act as a sort of liason between the public (consumers) and the game developers. Having said that... with regards to this:


I'm sorry that certain threads may deteriorate into personal attacks. That's an unfortunate consequence on the internet and posting on forums. You can never really tell what the actual tone of a post may have been, and things can easily be misinterpreted as being far more belligerent than was originally intended. I won't bother getting into a whole discussion about that, since it's been done before. I just want to apologize, for myself at least, if in anger, I have ever posted something that felt like a personal attack.

I think the problem is... the issues you have mentioned above feel true to most (if not all) of us, and we feel that it continues to be ignored everytime a new EP/SP is released. Many of us who are not in the industry aren't really aware of all the pressure that may come down from above, so to speak, with regards to enforcing deadlines, which leads to releasing games that we feel were just not ready yet, as far as quality goes. I think we hear a lot of negative things and complaints more so than positive things, because as Pescado points out, many of us feel that "Thanks, this is great" type responses aren't very helpful or serve as constructive criticism as far as improving future products. Many of us here feel that type of praise is reserved for the 'sheep' who just accept things naively and tend to turn a blind eye to serious bugs and scream bloody murder when it comes to using hacks. I think it's quite obvious that the much more well-informed user knows better than to simply blame problems on hacks alone, but I digress...

Getting back to the problem in general, I think that some of us tend to forget there are actual people behind developing these projects, and while we often try to make blanket statements that don't particularly focus on any one specific person or group, those of us who are not 'in the know' as far as what goes behind the scenes, kind of just generalize our comments towards EA and Maxis. I doubt that anyone here really holds you, specifically responsibles for any of the issues that we've encountered or that you've mentioned above. Unless you actually were responsible for any of those decisions. :P

However... on the other hand, as much as we tend to forget about the people involved making the games, I think that many of us feel that we, the consumers, are forgotten or ignored as well. Many of us might feel that, as 'loyal' or at least long-time fans of the game, we are being mistreated or taken advantage of due to the poor quality and quantity of content that is being released. Many of us feel that EA/Maxis (whomever is repsonsible :P) is releasing stuff just to make a quick, greedy buck off of us because they know that we (or at least the 'sheep') will gladly and blindly purchase these things, gobbling it all up just because it has the 'Sims' name on it. Unfortunately, this irritates the rest of us, who aren't willingly to blindly accept these products that we feel exhibit poor quality that could have (relatively, seemingly) easily have been avoided.

In particular... with FFS, which should have only really contained new objects anyways, it seems ridiculous that think that a Shopping Pack would need a patch. And... it is quite evident that, regardless of whether or not this content was pulled from OFB and packaged separately to make even more money off of the consumers, it had to have at least been in development at the same time that OFB was still being worked on. With that in mind, and the fact that it barely had that much content to begin with, it strikes me as odd that there wasn't enough time to test FFS 'in-game' and discover some fairly significant bugs. Additionally, the excuse that there just wasn't enough time to test things falls short for some of us who would prefer that the games be delayed due to further testing and debugging rather than sticking to what seems like an insanely tight schedule anyways. Personally... I would rather have one solid EP, that is bug-free as possible, and still rich in content that is engrossing and enjoyable, rather that two EPs where we have to deal with the bugs from the new one, while still waiting for a patch that only ends up fixing half of the bugs from the first one.

Anyways... I apologize for presuming to speak for everyone. I'm sure there are many people who might disagree with what I have to say. I was just trying to generalize.

Ste

Edited to clarify some of the muddled grammar. I know it's not exactly perfect, and there are still plenty of run-on sentences, but that's what you get when you kind of type as you think, due to free flow of thought and what not. :P

Thank you, Syberspunk, for speaking for me. I've been trying to figure out how to express my issues with my favorite game. You did so very accurately and eloquently. Nicely done.

The only thing I would add is that those frustrations over bugs is why I don't jump in line to get the EPs. I didn't get NL until January, and I'll be getting OFB at the end of the month....that way my favorite modders have time to fix what the testers at Maxis/EA didn't.

Ste, I basically feel the same way, only don't have the patience or the pretty words to put it quite like you.  ;)

Also, MaxoidTom, I do appreciate that you still read forums to see what we, the consumers, feel about your product even if you don't work on it anymore.  However, seeing that you don't work on it anymore, is it safe to assume you pass on concerns that we voice, or that someone else on the Maxis team still responsible for The Sims 2 does?

You know, it's interesting to note that studies have shown that the tone of an Internet message is usually interpreted as being what the tone WOULD have been had the interpreter written something like  it, and that the reader usually believes he has correctly interpreted the tone with a high degree of confidence.

Something worth considering: If somebody is interpreting something as a personal attack, whether or not it actually is, perhaps the attack is not entirely undeserved: After all, for someone to interpret it as a personal attack by the above, he has to implicitly believe he's guilty.

Food for thought.

Astute observation JM. A clasic example of 'transference'. Where'd you read that? I'd like to read it too.

MaxiodTom: Sometimes the insults are deserved, on some level, and sometimes they aren't. Some days are diamonds, some days are turds.

It wasn't us that named you the 'HatedMaxiod', never read anyone say that about you, or any maxiod. I have only read as stated above, we are all glad to have you amongst us., we welcome your comments, arguementative or not :) Just as we all love Jm's sarcasm and wit.

I'm glad to hear you are off the Sims project, but only because: it HAS to be a relief.

ok i havent read this thread before but i think its time to have my say

bugs in games really piss me off , its as lazy as sending out shoes with holes in , or a book with pages missing and in my mind totally unacceptable , and its the poor sods who for whatever reason dont have internet access but who do play the game, what about them? they cant download patches or other fixes. so they put up with maxis half finished shell of a game ,

and quite frankly you can fuck  stuff your many many late nights exactly what is it do you think your being paid for ?, cause its evidently not to put togeather a bug free ep that my god acutully works. and no its not nice to hear people bash your work but be honest its not like ffs is exactly anything to be proud off . and i like many others would not have gone beond the base game had it not been for people willing to "fix" the game for me ,

having to patch a game admits its faulty and once or twice i could probery cope with this , but its every fricken time an ep is sent out its lazy and amounts to poor workmanship , or sheer greed from maxis,


and as for marking 12year olds its not a good plan long term cause kids change there minds all the goddam time about what they like , and have no money of there own ,  people like me on the other hand have there  own money and no commitments such as husband kids ect and are old enough to have lasting intrests so come on maxis make your next ep worth our while

and yes im feeling irratable today ,

Clearly you should be in charge of EA, Maxis, and the next EP.

</sarcasm>

Gawd, people, have some Grilled Cheese with your Whine.  ::) As much as I may agree with many of your sentiments, I do get as tired of hearing it over and over as much as I get tired of hearing about how BBS'ers want PETZ.

I guess I have a different attitude, I don't get too hot and bothered because there are so many excellent (Thank You, This is Awesome) modders around fixing things that need fixing. In fact I posted something the other day to that effect to the BBS here. (http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?&openItemID=item.23,item.43,root.1,item.61,item.41&threadID=e9f0daa289799b5b24ddb329171a25d0&directoryID=103&startRow=1#48ce03a56c8ba06cce6b862502168d56)

I may rant for a short while, but then I play my game, or another one (lately Silent Hill 4 -- Maybe that's transference fighting all those bloody creatures ;) )

I understand where Ste's coming from, but working in the computer industry myself and working closely with programmers (and married to one!) I know that these deadlines are often set by people with no real idea of how much work is involved in the product. These executives promise things to their superiors, often with unrealistic timeframes and then it's up to the lowly programmers to meet these dates. So guys like Tom work weekends and 16 hr days to make sure execs get their bonuses. Of course, being a gamer and consumer myself, I also want games that work and are as bug-free as possible.

So I can see both sides of the story here, and it's a really unfortunate situation any way you look at it.

And add that people don't realize how complicated it is for a team of programmers to all work together as a collaborative effort. Programmers are just people. They make mistakes, they get disorganized, they have ego competitions, and they can't predict every scenario.

I think most of us understand the pressures and shortcomings of different types of jobs. That doesn't make it acceptable to market crap. Crap is crap. Period.

If GM or Ford or Honda or BMW or Dell or Apple or Gap or Sears or who ever anywhere that makes stuff makes shitty stuff they get it returned. Federal consumer laws in the US: If it don't work within 30 days you can take it back if you have the receipt. Period. (and yes many businesses here don't want ppl knowing that but that IS the truth regardless of what they tell you at their return counter.)  However in the US we can't return crappy software. New corporate power. EA has, in effect, robbed us or at least many of us--over and over again and if we don't scream about online in the forums then we are saying, in effect, is "go ahead and don't kiss me first I don't care...".

Packs are crap and the first EP was almost crap and NL needed a patch fast and then needed the next patch too and so did OFB, still not really functional....when's the next patch for it? The next EP?? Tired of the obvious cycle....

I realize quite thoroughly how complicated the job is. "It's complicated" is not an excuse to not do it right. They aren't curing cancer. "We aren't given nearly enough time to do it right, or treated with any decency by management" IS an excuse, and it's not one anyone should have to make in any field. I don't blame the programmers. I blame the executives, who screw both programmers and consumers in their pursuit of quick cash. Quick, not long-term; their business model is bad for investors as well. Of course, anything that's bad for workers and consumers is bad for the average investor as well because it's bad for the economy, but anyway...

EA is a company with absolutely zero ethical standards. But frankly, until people stop buying their crap, nothing will change.

How do you know what kind of ethical standards EA has? Do you know what the current conditions are there, and what internal conditions they're working with or against? Have you worked there (or for any large company, for that matter) ?

Blanket statements like this (or those that denigrate an entire nation as a whole) always weaken the rest of the argument for me.

Because of evidence I have read, journalistic and otherwise. I have every right to draw conclusions from that evidence. And I have worked for large companies before, for a matter of fact.

Denigrating an entire nation is so completely different than denigrating the ethical practices of one certain company, it's off the charts weird to compare the two. Denigrating a company is like denigrating the current government of a nation, if you want something to compare. And I'm perfectly happy to do that too when it's warranted.

I wouldn't say that EA is unethical just because it doesn't have the ethics that you think it should. Please cite your "evidence."

Seriously guys, the fact that the game is buggy is no excuse for the level of venom here. Lately, I have actually felt it is getting to be no better than the BBS-

OMG MAXIS teh SUXX0rS111!

I honestly don't know of any gaming company that doesn't screw up and have to put out a patch for everything they release after a short time. To a certain extent I have actually come to suspect it is done to prevent piracy.  ::) But whatever you feel about that, or the level of quality you want to see in their EP's, none of it changes the fact that it's still a great game. Slamming the company while you continue to buy their stuff, play the game, and obsess about it in an online forum is incredibly juvenile. No one is twisting your arm to make you buy the EP's. I don't like EA, or the business model, but I don't insult the programmers- which is essentially what you are doing when you just categorically say "this sucks, and everything they make sucks". Obviously it is good enough for anyone who is so into the game that they actually post online about it. I mean, I am a disgruntled customer as well, I am annoyed that something so huge as the lot sticking and vampire death bugs could possibly happen,  but the way some of you guys act about it is- dare I say it? RETARDO. Just remember that one owes you a fucking computer game, and check your attitude at the door.

Um, Can I ask a question here? *ducks the flying spears*
I would like to uninstall FFStuff...I just don't like anything that it comes with (so boring)..
I don't know if my neighborhoods will be playable if I revert back to OFB by installing the FFSpack. Does anyone know if it would be harmful to do this?
I was thinking of updating it, but I haven't used a single thing that came with it.  It seems like a waste of space now, and I'd like it to go far away without too much trouble  ::)
Many thanks for any suggestions.

It's not even the bugs. The truth is that gamers are fairly tolerant of bugs themselves, and are often quite forgiving about the matter. The real problem is the attitude. It's not even the bugs. The truth is that gamers are fairly tolerant of bugs themselves, and are often quite forgiving about the matter. The real problem is the attitude: This is what sets EA apart: Their atrocious attitude in which they REFUSE TO ACTUALLY FIX THEM. Notice there are issues that have gone completely unfixed despite the fact that they are clearly known to them. Why are they still unfixed? There are a number of possible answers to that one, and none of them are good.

Negative opinions are the only useful ones. Positive opinions are useless. They serve no purpose, since they do not offer a course of action.

And yes, they *DO* twist your arms to make you buy the EPs. Notice that the practice of bundling patches for the previous expansion into the next one continues. That practice ALONE should be enough to make people angry.

Late to the party but still worthy of comments.

Wow, there was netspeak.  We missed netspeak?  Where?  Oh.  I see it know, it was in your post Ellatrue.  ::)

Being a disgruntled consumer and passively not voicing your complaint so that the manufacturer thinks that what they make is gold and therefore continues to produce a substandard product is more RETARDO to me.  Making blanketed comments involving a group of people who voice there opinions is RETARDO to me.
Not heeding your own advice... priceless.  :P

That's not what I meant, Myth. There are legitimate complaints, but I feel like it has been really getting out of hand. It isn't fair to the developers to just say "Maxis sucks" unilaterally, just because their objects, for example, aren't what you would have made yourself- which frankly, has been the tone of what seems like half of the threads here lately. There are a lot of people who like to go around on gaming forums, including this one, and just slam EVERYTHING about a game- even though, if they thought about it, they would realize that there are real people who put a lot of time into developing them, they do lurk sometimes, and stuff like that can be insulting and/or hurtful. This thread may not be the best example, but I really am tired of the general feeling of entitlement a lot of gamers seem to have about these things (and not just the sims community). I mean, comments like, "the hats are ugly, nautical themes suck, pets are a bad idea and even though the majority of players seem to want them, company X sucks and my opinion should dictate what the company makes next" seem really unfair to me.

I am not thrilled about pets, but I understand that it is a company that responds to customer demand- and I just have to accept that my taste is not the same.

I know Maxis had the "New Expansion Fixes Old Problems" thing with TS1, but I hadn't noticed it in TS2.  Heck, Makin' Magic was made to be the most stable out there so it would sell more than 5 copies.  Maybe I hadn't noticed this practice in TS2 because everything is already fixed by J.M. a month or two after the game was released.

EA won't listen to their customer complaints until they lose their "sheepish" fanbase.  To keep said people "sheepish", they release Patches to make it seem like they're trying to do something.  If they didn't cater to the sheepish, then they wouldn't release these patches.  The Last Patch released for TS1 was Unleashed, and two expansions came after that one.  TS2 had all its versions patched.

Though, this is all just a summary of what you already know probably.

Saying things like "the hats are ugly" "nautical themes suck" "pets are a bad idea" "Maxis sucks" are ppls opinions as are things like "I want to cuddle with Maxis" "I love Maxis" "I want Petz" "coders work hard." And they are entitled to their opinons. Period. Way past time to get used to it....

WHOA. I've been "on break" so excuse me for bringing this back up. Mindset of a 12-year-old, right there.

How about some hard facts, like "Maxis put the NL patches in OFB and the OFB patches in FFP"? There's a legitimate gripe right there, that they're forcing you to pay for this thing (which is full of hideous things that you may not actually want) to get some bugs fixed for the things you *DO* want and already have. It's an ongoing, highly shady Maxian business practice.

About the only company with practices even more shady might be Microsloth, but did we really expect much from Microsloth?

heh...looks like I haven't missed much around here  ::)

I got the family fun pack thing when it came out, haven't installed it yet (haven't been playing) but I will (+patch) because I want the new beds and stuff. I happen to like some of the Maxis stuff (shocking isn't it)

I would have perfered that the FF stuff was in OFB instead of separate but I realize that Maxis wanted to make everyone happy (and make more money of course, EA loves money - what company dosen't?) but of course that isn't possible  ::)

Now instead of (some) people bitching about the Maxis content that they are stuck with having in their games, they are bitching about the extra packs (which is stuff that most of them don't even want) and (some) people that do like some of the maxis stuff get to bitch about having to pay extra for stuff that should have been in the game(EP) to begin with...

I can't help but wonder why some of you even bother playing TS2 when all you do is bitch about it and maxis/ea

LOL. Yes, add those things too JM.

I happen to agree whole heartedly with your opinion JM. What I really wanted to do/say was to be in SimWorld for a bit and slap the 'young naive dummies' to the great Beyond Stupidity. But, there's no way to do that and there's no way to make a horse drink the water. We tell 'em and we 'fact' them to death and they STILL insist on being stupid, making stupid statements. I get sick of arguing with the dummies. What can I say?

I wonder the same thing. It gets rather annoying how people bash Maxis but still continues to play the Sims 2. You make the biggest hate statement by not buying their product, not posting a useless hate thread.

As for the patches and fixes in TS1 expansion packs.  Superstar had major bugs and Makin Magic also had major bugs - neither of these were patched or fixed.  It came down to the community to make the fixes.

Always has, and probably always will.

I'm reminded of all those who bought Dixie Chicks CDs for the sole purpose of bulldozing them. The Chicks still got the money, so what exactly was the point?

That's just sad, in both senses of the word. Why waste your money on something you know you won't like?

I don't hate Maxis; after all they did give us the game we all know and love, while I do agree their marketing tactics can be quite tacky, and yes we do have a right to complain, saying you hate the company but still buying their products is quite stupid.

no, "I don't like nautical themes" is an opinion. "X sucks" is an insult.

But see, in my opinion, the nautical theme of FFS sucks. It's quite possible to form an opinion that also serves to insult. Nothing wrong with that. While not the most constructive of criticisms, it is criticism nonetheless, and should be acknowledged. If a lot of your consumers think your product 'sucks' in their opinion, that should count for something. If you choose to ignore them, you'll most likely find that you have a lot less customers than before. Except when it comes to this game, because apparently the sheep seem to know how to multiply, even if they can't think for themselves, read, or type properly. :P

Ste

I dunno, I think the majority of their customers don't go to the BBS, or any other sims site, at all.

Even so, it stands to reason that the 'majority' that EA 'hears' from or gets 'feedback' from (even if that isn't necessarily 'good' feedback, and by good, I mean useful, and not simply full of 'praise') is mostly the BBS and any body who actually goes online to fill out those surveys. Yes, a lot of people who go to  sites other than the BBS are morely likely to be more informed, but I think it's quite reasonable to say that the majority of people who manage to fill out these surveys first, to the point that they get filled up, are probably people who hang out on the BBS all the time. They are most likely to see that a new survey is out. I never go there, and I pretty much rely on posts/threads like these to find out about the surveys. I'm hoping to be one of the few people that might actually give what I consider is much needed constructive criticism. :P

I figure... the people here tend to be a lot more informed and are more likely to be independent thinkers who can form their own opinions. I like to think people who actually use mods to fix their game are already one step ahead so to speak, at least with respect to the bleating sheep who naysay hax, calling them the works of the devil and the root of all evil that ruins your game and your computer. ::)

The thing is, in this day and age, if you have the game, you have to have a computer to play it. And if you have a computer, you probably have access to the internet. I would tend to think that the majority of the people who play the sims probably do go online at least, and probably do go to sims sites. I might agree with you in that they may not even necessarily go to boards or post at all. I'm not saying that the BBS is at all representative of the simming population as a whole, and if it is, then that's pretty sad and disconcerting. Regardless, I think that people should be allowed to express their opinion in whatever manner they are capable of, whether it be positive Or negative. Albeit, you're just more likely to be taken seriously if you expressed it in a somewhat civilized, reasonably intelligent manner than simply saying something 'sucks.' Alternatively, it is sometimes appropriate and sufficient to be succint as saying 'I don't like such and such because it sucks.' It's pretty straight forward and to the point. :P

Anyways, I think it's just plain easy to boil everything down and take your anger and frustration out on a general disembodied group. When you can't specifically find someone to blame, you kind of just make a blanket statement because you have to hold someone responsible. Regardless of whoever's fault it is, I just want things to be done better next time around, and I'd rather complain about it now, than have whoevers in charge sit around on their asses, all complacent like and maintaining the status quo. Things should change, and for the better, and if you don't complain, if you don't bother to voice your opinion, who are we to blame but ourselves for things remaining the same, or worse, going downhill. :-\

Ste

I bought FFS and I've had zero problems with it. Maybe I just got lucky

I haven't had any problems with it either.

*shrug*

Me either.
*Gives unopened FFS box the evil eye :D

I agree...

I don't post much mainly because it seems that so many people dwell on the negatives and feed off of the hate and anger of others...but I would just like to interject that with or without the fixes (cheats) that modders have created for the majority of us, playing the game as is was never a real issue for me.  I never had a lot of problems, and the few that I did have I could probably have lived with...

...but one thing I think we need to remember is that Maxoids are people too.  They get hurt when something that they have worked on gets crapped on, just like all modders and creators when the same things happen to them.  How many truly gifted and creative people have quit because of all the bitching and whining about stuff...and asking "can you change this" or "why doesn't it do that" kinda crap.

I know that it takes a lot time and patience to do what maxoids and creators/modders do...I have problems using html coding to create web pages...and that's simple stuff for most 'puter geeks.  I realize how difficult and time consuming programing can be...

Puhleeze...just have a little consideration for people, even the maxoids, maybe imagine walking in their shoes for a step or two.

I get commentary like that all the time, but you don't see it bothering me. No, I just make fun of them.

Yes, Pescado definitely has alligator skin, in more ways than one.  ;)

Honestly? None. People quit modding for all sorts of reasons, but I have never seen a talented modder quit merely because of people griping at him/her. If you are a truly talented and creative person, you also have an ego the size of Montana, even when you're able to conceal it under a large amount of tact. When that is based on real talent, the ego can be bruised, but never punctured.

Maxoids aren't about to quit because their wittle feewings get hurted. This is their job. You're paid to do something, you deal with the crap, especially when that crap is from consumers, not from co-workers or bosses.

If you're married to your work, you can't work in this kind of business (I'm in production art, not programming, but it's round about the same thing). But you do get to laugh at the ugly and ridiculous stuff customers make you do.

Simply not buying the product (and giving negative word-of-mouth criticism) is lots more likely to close a business down. Providing open criticism and critique is for a product one *likes* and want the next 'whatever' to also be something they like. As I'm interesting in seeing the company (EA actually) continue, I'll keep posting my criticism and concerns and hope they'll listen. If it ever gets to a point the game isn't fun at all anymore, I'll vote with my wallet and spread the "that's no fun, don't buy it" concept among my friends and peers and coworkers and the like.

I do try to be careful not to be out-and-out insulting. I try to make criticism constructive, and when I'm complaining about company policy, specify EA - rather than the programmers or whatnot. But bottom line, even if I'm not good at doing that, they should be grateful for criticism - it's MUCH better than just not buying something if they want to continue to make money.