More Awesome Than You!

Here is a comprehensive table of the skill gaining rates of all skilling objects and interactions as of TS2U v1.0. Some of the conclusions may surprise you. Higher numbers are better. 100 represents the "base" rate of skill gain, 100%. Note the rates listed below can be modified by personality affinity, and a sim receives +100% learning rate while wearing a thinking cap, and +200% while under the influence of smart milk. Smart milk can normally only affect toddlers, but the attribute can become "stuck" randomly and result in children learning at accelerated rates. This tends to go away when you wear a TC, which also affects the attribute and thus clears the stuckage.

Having a tutor will also increase the rate of learning by a yet-unknown amount. Having the tutor wear a thinking cap or not has no effect, nor does the skill of level of the tutor as long as he is adequately skilled to function as a tutor.

Note that some objects have learning rates which unusually high, but are not a true reflection of their effectiveness because the learning rate is only applied during specific intervals of the usage cycle (military obstacle course, personal trainer, biotech station).

Base Skill Rates - All Skills
Edumacation Book:   500
FT Teaching:        200

Base Skill Rates - Cooking
Candy Machine:      200
Bookshelf:          200
Yummy:              200
Toy Oven:           150

Base Skill Rates - Mechanical
Surgical Station:   250
Bookshelf:          200
Activity Table:     150
Restorable Car:     100

Base Skill Rates - Body
Obstacle Course:    538
Bowling:            350 (?)
Punch Bag:          313
Treadmill:          300
Multipress:         250
Exercise Bike:      250
Yoga:               200
EDS(all):           200
Single Bench:       175
Personal Trainer:  +100 (adds to rate after personality adjustments)
TV Work Out:        150
Stereo Work Out:    100
Pool:               100
CS Limbo:           31

Base Skill Rates - Charisma
Golf Course:        250
Law Podium:         250
Politics Podium:    250
LS Podium:          250
Mirror:             200
Bird Teach/Talk:    150
Nursery Rhyme:      100
Toddler Rabbit:     75

Base Skill Rates - Logic
Biotech Station:    250
Telescope Good:     200
Telescope Crappy:   150
Chess - Indoor:     200
Chess - Outdoor:    150
Toddler Peg Box:    100

Base Skill Rates - Creativity
Mus. Career Guitar: 400
Lie Detector:       250
Hydroponic Garden:  250
DJ Booth:           250
Practice Music:     200
Karaoke Machine:    200
Modular Synth:      200
Violin:             175
Perform Music:      175
Easel Painting:     150
Write Novel:        150
Activity Table:     150
CS Bongo Drums      100
Toddler Xylophone:  75

Base Skill Rates - Cleaning
FP Scanner:         250
Bookshelf:          200

This following table concerns the relative difficulty weights of gaining 1% of a skillpoint based on your present skill level (0-9), in terms of how many ticks it will take to gain 1% of a skillpoint, meaning at level 0, it will take 4000 ticks to gain a skillpoint given a 100% skill rate. There are 1800 ticks in a Sim-hour, meaning it will take a sim 1:07 hr (2000t) to learn the first skillpoint at a rate of 200.
Weighted Difficulty Rates (ticks per 1%)
0: 40
1: 66
2: 84
3: 108
4: 139
5: 178
6: 228
7: 292
8: 374
9: 480

The base-rate + personality modifiers + PT bonus affects how many "ticks" it will take to gain 1 point (1% of a game 1-10 "point"). IQ (MYSemi 0x1C +0x64) affects how many points are gained when this duration passes.
Skill Gain Rate is therefore (BR * IQ) / 100.
Examples:
Assume no skillpoints.
Sim has 300 IQ, using base-rate 200. He will gain 3 points (3%) every 20 ticks, or 0.15/t.
Sim has 100 IQ, using base-rate 500. He will gain 1 point (1%) every 8 ticks, or 0.125/t.

So basically, to gain skill:

- For Cooking, Mechanical and Cleaning, use the bookshelf.
- For Charisma, use the mirror.
- For Logic, use the expensive chess/telescope.
- For Creativity, play music when you can or paint to combine with earning cash.
- For Body, use the treadmill or multipress (whichever works better).

- For all skills, career rewards are always faster, especially if another sim can help them with it.
Correct?

Note that the treadmill cannot be used with complete success until a skill of 700 (7) is reached. If you're using the Skillinator, this matter is handle for you, but otherwise, you're going to have severe ADHD problems with most of the new Uni exercise equipment, especially the treadmill.

Few caveats: The Candy Machine provides no benefit over the bookshelf or Yummy, and requires a skill of at least 700 to use successfully. Of course, if you WANT to generate an invisopuddle, go for it at 400 and below, and you're sure to get one. The invisopuddle has a few uses with toddlers. As a method of pure skilling, however, it is ineffectual.

The Biotech station is entirely worthless operated solo, as it has one of the worst average performance values in the game due to the stop-and-go. It only becomes competitive with an instructor, and even then, requires horrid amounts of micromanagement unless the Skillinator is handling it.

Children cannot use the Scanner Gun successfully at all without an instructor, due to the severe ADHD effect.

Other interesting notes are that when a child is trained on the Candy Machine and the Surgical Station, since he is not the one using it, he will not quit due to mood or need decrease and can continue for quite some time as a result. The instruction in this case will end only when the instructor stops, or possibly at much lower point. This is convenient, as it avoids the sim food obsession.

Okay, update on reward objects:

++ Obstacle course
+ Punching bag, Golf Course, Podium, Hydroponic Garden
- Scanner Gun with kids
- Candy Machine, Biotech Station (unless "chaining" skill-training)

I like making them use the treadmill till they earn the punching bag anyway because the fall anim over never fails to be amusing to me. :D

I noticed for the first time this weekend that the obstacle course is unavailable to pregnant sims, a male in my case, although he could use the exercise machine.  I guess Maxis decided that all that falling down wouldn't be healthy for someone who is pregnant.

Vicki

Yep. Pregnant Sims can't be instructors on it, either. Annoying since all they do is stand there.

It's interesting to note that pregnant sims can use the treadmill and often fall down while using it.

Is there any way to force them to use the Biotech station with the Skillinator (and an instructor)?

The Biotech station is automatically used by the Skillinator if you have an Instructor, providing you meet all the prerequisites for safe usage. This generally requires that your sim have platinum mood and be very clean. If you do not meet the prerequisites for usage, it will not be attempted since it may kill your sim. It will only be attempted solo if all other possible skill options are exhausted, as the Biotech station is the worst solo logic skilling item in the game.

Okay, gonna show my ignorance here.    Personal trainer?   How do I access that?    This is something different than an iinstructor for the obstacle course or punching bag, right?   And what does personality have to do with it?

And what is this Yummy for learning cooking?    Only place I have seen that is when sims smell food and say it smells yummy.  Surely they are not learning to cook simply by smelling.

candy machine

No, it's the Yummy channel. Unfortunately, sims can never decide which channel they want to watch, so unless you have freewill off it probably isn't worth it, as a sim will repeatedly channel-hop until it drives you completely insane.

I've never had problems with sims watch the Yummy channel. It's probably a Personality thing.

In some of my houses (I'm a free will on person) I've gotten my sims into the habit of watching yummy channel.  I don't know if it's that some like to channel surf more than others, but if I see them at the tv, I have them change it, and have had some success with having that become their preferred habit.

Then again, Food is an Interest. Maybe they need a high Interest in Food.

According to the Prima Guide (Warning: Crapola ahead.) elders love the Yummy channel, toddlers and adults like it, teens dislike it, and children hate it.

I'll put this on my list of "things to test." TV reactions are something I knew off the top of my head for TS1 but don't know much about in TS2, mostly because my sims rarely watch TV. Flamingos provide all the fun they need, and socialization is managed by parties (Socialize--friends) and autoyak.

Okay, you can only get a personal trainer if you have the University EP. Then take your student to the gym. If you have no body skill points it shouldn't take long before you get a coach to help your Sim, or rather.. a personal trainer.

Now, The Yummy Channel will teach your Sims to cook and all they have to do is watch that channel on television. So if you have a couch potato you'll learn really fast. Expect some early cooking failure, like burning an omlete the first time they cook one. Just cancel the serve and make them throw it away and have them make another omlete. It will be a good and bad memory for your Sim.

Hope I helped.
SimMoon

Really? I have my teens watch the Yummy channel all the time (gives the TV SOME use), and they never seem to complain or change it when I don't want them to. Or are they talking about how much the fun increases/decreases?

The fun caps, yes. Yummy's fun cap is lower for lower age groups. It creates somewhat of an obnoxious ADHD effect that is auto-corrected by the Skillinator. I mean, seriously, dunno what Maxis was thinking: You CLEARLY watch Yummy for the SKILL BONUS, *NOT* just for the fun. Besides, Yummy is clearly the most hilarious channel to watch by far. Okay, maybe it's because I'm an elder....but come on, doesn't everyone else agree? Yummy is CLEARLY the best channel. Where else can you watch Martha Stewart catch fire? It would only be made funnier if she was in some nice orange prison jammies while hosting the show. :P

Orange jammies. That would be a hoot. Maybe it will be in NightLife. :P

According to this list children seem to hate watching the Yummy Channel. I seem to have found a way to make the Yummy Channel fun for Children.

For starters, you can tell that a Sim is having a lot of Fun when all three green arrows appear on the right-hand side of the Fun bar. So when I say three green arrows, that's what I'm referring to.

I make a Child Sim watch KidzTube until all three green arrows appear. Then, once they've appeared, I change the channel to the Yummy Channel. For some reason, the fun-gaining aspect of KidzTube seems to be retained for the Yummy Channel.

Or am I imagining things?  ???

You're probably imagining things, but you can try testing what the ADHD point is.

In that case we are both imagining it. I do this for adults. I have them watching the sports channedl and when the arrows reach the three (or is it four) count, I change to the yummy channel. The arrow count stays at the higher number and fun increases at the rate it did when the sim watched the sports channel.

G.

Yes, but how does it affect the ADHD point? Fun increasing faster would actually be counterproductive if it just meant the sim hit the disliked ADHD point for the Yummy channel and stopped watching faster.

Can't say I'm familiar with the ADHD concept - I tend to alternate fun skill building and non-fun skill building. If fun maxes out, I'll happily switch the Sim over to a non-fun method of skill-building.

I'll be sure to keep an eye open for ADHD though, and see what impact it has on my Sims.

The Yummy Channel rocks. It makes me laugh even if I can't see it. Just that guy ranting in simlish about grilling stuff is entertaining.

My sims are like me. No TV. Yummy isn't an issue.

Most of them keep watching, but some start channel surfing as soon as fun is full. Those malcontents I force to read the cookbook instead.

G.

I use cookbook when the fun level is reasonably high, then switch to Yummy Channel when it falls, but very rarely. Those blasted Sims either stop watching or switch channels, thus daring to contradict the will of the overmind. There are hacks here to solve that, but Yummy Channel is quite the noisy one, anyhow. Though I admit, the violence doesn't hurt. It's very nice and fuzzy, really.

I am beginning to become a fan of freewill off. I have been using it regularly for skill building and parties. It makes these tasks so much less frustrating eliminating mindless behavior and me screeching, "NO don't do that, bad sim bad!" at the computer like some lunatic. Once I am done though I always have to turn freewill back on lest I accidently kill someone.

I have become more of a fan of freewill off since Power Idle, even in large families, because I don't have to worry about having some one eat, potty, or sleep, to avoid mishaps.  That's why I never played with it off before, and forgot it was even an option.  But when cooking skill maxed out, I always had to watch them cook because all they wanted to cook was Lobster thermidor, and even though they have a 20% failure rate with it, that wasn't even the main concern.  The problem is that they would never fail to put the lobster in the oven and wander off to use the toilet or tell someone a joke, or worse, going off to work, thus leaving the lobster to go up in flames.  Fortunately I put smoke alarms in all my new homes as a necessity because although you'd really think a max skill Sim would not start fires, they are almost as bad as a 0-skill Sim when left to their own devices.  ::) At least with macrotastics, they will only cook pork chops, and as boring as that is, it is satisfying and rarely burns, especially with PI to make sure they stay focused.  I guess you could say PI is like giving my sims Adderall so they can focus.  It's not perfect, but it's better than the alternative. 

I have had a couple of problems though with pregnant sims using Power Idle.  I am assuming this is because their needs drop so much faster.  I had a pregnant sim die because PI didn't kick in and tell her to eat until it was almost too late.  She was trying to caffeinate, but her bladder was falling too fast to make up for the energy gained from the espresso.  Her husband could not plead with the grim reaper because she fell out in the bathroom, and he couldn't get on the other side of her where Grim was.  So I didn't save that one.  Another time, her husband woke up in the morning starving (I was using JM's sleep clock), and he ran downstairs to fix something to eat.  But he died before he could cook the food and get it to the table.  If I were that hungry, I think I'd eat straight out of the pan without worrying about getting it to the table on a plate.  Probably an instant meal would have been better, then cook a meal.  Fortunately this time she was able to plead with the grim reaper to save his life.  The problem was that when he was ressurected, all his needs were at half way so he had to spend the rest of the day getting his needs back up, when before everything was green except for hunger, and a good meal would have fixed that.

I've never had a problem with pregnancy and power idling, but it is true that some pregnancies can be quite brutal, especially if your initial need distribution is just timed completely WRONG. The hunger/energy loop is brutal under nearly any condition simply because a sim can be simultaneously too tired to eat and too hungry to sleep. I'm considering implementing a detection for this and using the Energizer a fallback when this happens. It is, however, somewhat tricky because Hunger and Energy are both needs that can't really be addressed effectively until they're already rather low, as a sim won't be able to eat his food safely if he's not sufficiently hungry and will ruin his schedule if he tries to sleep early. Thus, if they both fall low at once, you have a problem.

Eh, you'd be surprised how quickly Power Idle can correct that kind of slump.

So, is it possible to replace the old "free will" code with Power Idle? I would just assume it wouldn't be that difficult.

Actually, it did, he went to the bathroom and took care of two needs, ate, comfort was dealt with, kicking the flamingo took no time at all, and then he hit the espresso machine.  I'm not sure if it was in that order, but you're right, it didn't take very long and life was back to, er, normal.

I have noticed that learning seems to slow down with each age transition so that toddlers and children learn faster than teens and adults, and teens learn faster than adults. And it's not that the last few points are harder to get, as CAS adults learn slower than their teens and children. But I read sometime ago (I don't recall the source, but I remember it being someone fairly reputable) that children do not learn any faster than adults. Am I imagining things, or is this a result of one or more uses of smart milk as a toddler? I currently have a teen who is an absolute genius...he had logic and creativity at 8 and a handful of other points, including 2 body points, by the time he became a teen. He earns skill points extremely fast. He only got smart milk once as a toddler (I forgot to buy the thing for a long time).

Jen

That was me, I said that. There is no learning rate adjustment by age: All age categories increase skills at the same rate, although the object used to learn skills, as well as bonus effects like Thinking Caps and Smart Milk, as well as being taught, influence this. Toddler objects have insuperior learning rates to standard objects. The rates are as listed above. The age-learning-rate myth is debunked in the Mythology section.

That's not quite what I'd call "absolute genius". In fact, by my standards, that qualifies as "mentally retarded". Smart milk does have a bleedover effect as an obscure bug that may manifest itself, however: The Smart Milking will stick, setting SemiAttribute 0x1C to 200, meaning your sim has a +200% learning rate (300%). This is erased if you wear a thinking cap or are reinstanced (such as by deletion or moving). It is cumulative with the +100% boost for an instructor on a career object. One smart milking is often all it takes to result in being "stuck" like that, and subsequent feedings of smart milk, much like showering again when you still have green smoke coming out of you, can possibly erase this. Both the Automated Baby Controller(with Always Smart Milk OFF - Default & Recommended!) and Skillinator are programmed to detect this "stuck" condition and avoid overwriting it by feeding unnecessary extra smart milk or wearing a thinking cap. If you are using these objects and your sim avoids thinking caps or smart milks, this is why.

Figures it was you :P Actually, I thought it might have been you. I did look over the rates, but I'm mathmatically challenged and my brain shut down and my eyes glazed over after a few lines. I saw the myth entry after I posted this, but I'd probably still have annoyed you with the question anyway.

Well, I guess either my other Sims are usually morons or I don't drive them as hard as you ;) Plus I don't use any skill hacks/mods/whatever and have only recently been using the career rewards. I didn't know about the thinking cap (not that I use it much anymore anyway), I'll be sure not to use it on him.

Jen

I don't use any skill hacks/mods/whatever either. I have, however, turned slave driving into a mechanically precise, automated artform. :)

Jen, don't feel bad - one thing I've learned is that the more you play TS2, the better you get at essential tasks like building skills. You start to realise more and more that you need to get your younger Sims to focus on skill-building. The availability of University scholarships for Level 8 skills has given added importance to skill-building for youngsters. Because of this, I expect most future generations of my raised-from-birth Sims will max out all skills before reaching Adulthood.

Where is this SemiAttribute stored?  Can it be changed manually?

Added some new extracted statistics for some Nightlife-objects.

Bowling does not appear to utilize any personality affinities, and may be an intermittent action as well, but has a base rate of what appears to be 350. Some empirical trials will be necessary to evaluate its sustained potential as a body-builder.

The new EDS appears to carry an unknown risk of alien abduction at maximum level.

Will you consider adding bowling as an option to the Skillinator?  (i.e. if there is a bowling alley on the lot, Skillinator...Body will get them to use it)

Karen

Yes, there are plans for this. As soon as I actually have the opportunity to attempt it and evaluate its skilling potential, anyway.

That would be great, especially for kids, who don't have too many other options for gaining body points.

According to the Prima guide, there is a slim chance that previously abducted sims will unexpectedly disappear for two hours when using the EDS. It also says the chances of alien abduction in the EDS increase as the number of normal abductions increases. Not the most accurate source, and no-one here has yet reported this happening to them...

It's probably rare.  I'll have to try it with some of my sims who have been abducted.

I have heard reports of it happening to some people on the BBS. So it does happen but it is likely quite rare. I have asim that has been abducted, I might test it on her.

I will report that happening to me.  I initially thought the EDS was bugged.  The sim vanished, but was still shown as using the EDS.   The EDS was idle, as if no one was using it.  After a while, he came back, and I think he showed up next to the EDS instead of actually in it, but I can't be sure.  Shortly thereafter, he was pregnant with an alien baby.

He had been abducted by aliens when he was a teen.

I also had this happen. A sim who had been abducted before and had maximum body points was abducted, returned a while later and was NOT pregnant.

Does the body skill gains differ with all of the options on the EDS (Easy/Medium/Hard) or are all of them the same?

Same, unless you get the variational version from Crammyboy.

How do the skill gains from  the following things compare with the objects in your list?
cooking meals
cleaning things
unclogging toilets
repairing anything
doing the crossword

If I want a sim to learn cleaning, I tend to have them don the helmet and set them to clean every counter, cooker and bathroom in the house finishing with reading a book from the bookcase.  Am I better off heading straight for the bookcase and hiring a maid?

Your list says write a novel is always 150 - it seems a little odd that it isn't faster on the more expensive computer - Maxis normally set it up that way.

I also noticed something amusing with tutors on career objects - if Sim A has 3 skill points say, they can tutor SimB with 2 points and the session keeps going even if SimB progresses above 3 points.  Then you can turn it round and have Sim B tutor Sim A! 

Hands-on material appears to be basic rate, 100.

I have not looked at the crossword, but I know it isn't high, certainly not above 200, and the crossword is completed so quickly that you'll be lucky if you manage to actually gain a point from it. Since there is not an unlimited source of readily-available newspapers one can do crosswords out of, this tends to be an extremely limited-use interaction.

Yes. Cleaning tends to be a high waste of thinking cap time because a lot of the time you spend on "cleaning" is not even cleaning time, it's handshaking time. PLUS, the rate for cleaning is poor, at only 100, the base rate..

The computer is primarily seen to be a "Fun" object and all other functions appear to be secondary. As such, the code for all of it is contained in the semiglobals and does not vary from computer to computer.

That has a lot to do with the granularity of the checking: Some objects will check every skillpoint, others will only check at the initiation of the teaching and does not recheck until the interaction ends.

When sims are broke, the crossword is about the only way to gain logic points, so I use it. As you say it takes a few days to get a logic point from it even with a helmet, but it fills in a short gap while a visitor arrives or the bus/taxi comes.  If you ever look at it, you might as well add the stats for completeness..

Thanks for the info -  It seems kind of backward to me that reading about something helps them learn better than actually doing it - we're talking cleaning here not nuclear physics.  My sims obviously need to head straight for the learning objects and hire the help!  I have to say I like to make them do chores and really earn that skill the hard way!  I guess I also avoid hiring NPCs because the memory of NPC slowdown bug lives on!

I don't use the maid or gardener anymore because with Macrotastics Clean and Garden, my sims run around cleaning everything in record time.  Wish I had something like that in real life!  Now with TJ's Always Perfect Plants hack, I don't have to worry about gardening either, or having to have my flowers and shrubs positioned just the right way so the gardener or my sims can care for them.

You DO. Go. Run around. And clean and garden everything.

Somehow it just doesn't work the same.  :P

You're probably a lazy sim and thus insist on walking everywhere at a stately plod. That, or you need a commandant that will lock you in a room with no doors, drop you into a ladderless pool, or light your ass on fire if you don't comply with orders.

Or both at the same time...

LOL!!!

I realise the Awesome Ones are busy updating stuff for Seasons, but has anyone checked out the learning rate on the new Education career bookcase reward (which reminds me of a hack I had in TS1).

It's autumn in the household where I tried it out and I had the Ottomas kids reading up on charisma and body.  I know that their learning rates are faster in autumn, and I'd made them smarter, but they zipped through those skills at a surprisingly fast rate.

The two disadvantages that I can see - training body from a book doesn't improve fitness, and parents can't help kids skill using this object.

I have added some more analysis about the interaction between base rate (BR) and IQ (as displayed by Lot Debugger, Semi 0x1C + 0x64).

The base rate of all skills on the Edumacation Book is 500. This means that, for a 100 IQ sim, it is equivalent to receiving instruction(+100 IQ) on a 250 BR object. For sims with higher IQs (stuck smart milk, stuck multinuke smart milk), due to the way BR compounds with IQ, the Edumacational Book used Solo will outperform 250 BR objects, but will not outperform the 313 BR career punch bag.

For base figure of 200 IQ (TC), your learn rate is 1000% base on the EB, whereas receiving instruction on the punch bag will be 939%.
For a base figure of 300 IQ, your learn rate is 1500% base (300*500/100)  on the EB, whereas receiving instruction on a Punching Bag is (313*400/100) = 1252%.
For a base figure of 500 IQ, learn rate is 2500% on EB, instructioned punch bag is 1878%. Clearly, as you can see, the gap widens with increasing IQ.

Can we expect an update to the skillinator to take into account the new career rewards? 

The numbers for the Music reward guitar you've provided don't look too bad either.  I haven't placed that on a lot in my game yet, but I assume it's also a reward that parents can't help kids with and would use similar calculations to the bookcase (so isn't as good as the Criminal reward on a smart kid + instructor, but is better than not using a career reward).

Too slow. It's already out. Go get it.

Stupid question: what's this Edumacation Book you're talking about?
Another stupid question: how can you increase the IQ of sims? Mine always have 100 (as shown on FFS LotDebugger).

The Edumacation Book is the book you get from the bookshelf that is the Edumacation career reward.

Feeding a sim smart milk as a toddler, which becomes "stuck" until a sim resets or reinstances, will raise it, as will wearing a thinking cap. Receiving instruction on a career reward gives a temporary +100 while doing so.

Ah, I see. Thanx!

How much is the autumn "skill boost" worth?  Is it really true that skills are learned faster in autumn, or is that just more lies & propaganda?  Just wondering....

I don't know the precise scores, but studying is boosted by the Fall season (and is indicated by swirling leaves around their skill meter). Skillinator should also look for a Apple-stocked juicer and use that for study bonus (if it doesn't already).

I was thinking that apple juice was only for homework ? Does it work for other learning ? And if it does, what does the veggie cocktail do then ?

Oh, right.  :D

Apple juice = faster homework, Veggie cocktail = skill boost.

EDIT: Looks like VC gives you 5 hours of 50 or 100 points boost, depending on the intensity of the juice.

Do all of these boni stack?

The autumn skill boost is about a 33% to modified base rate, as it reduces the tick cost for skills by 25%.

It will be looked into.

Where is this boost applied? Does it stack? Will using it reverse stuck smart milk?

The Global "Get in Temp 0 - Skill Gain Speed" applies the effect of VC (so I have no idea).
/me looks further into this

EDIT: Probably has no effect on the Smart/Stupid attribute.

I've found it makes an enormous difference in Uni.  With the autumn boost, one term paper and 2 assignments or one class fill up the grade meter completely.  I've been able to send sims to finals with almost 60 hours left in the semester.  With this boost I can get a student through a year of uni in less than an hour playing time without using 'rampage' at all.

Uni is hardly any challenge at all now if you do like I do and have 2 autumn seasons a year. If you start the year with autumn, they'll start first year with autumn and have that same season again just before their last year (assuming you don't mess with the clock much).

Combine autumn + the golden books + thinking cap and you should be able to easily max their skills in no time.  ;D

Not sure why using or not using "Rampage" makes any difference, since rampage isn't doing anything you can't do manually, you just don't have to manually queue anything.

Well, sure, if you want to make it easy, you can do perma-autumn. But no one said life had to be easy. Besides, when was Uni ever hard? The idea of making it harder is currently being pursued.

Strictly speaking, you can't actually have the Gold Book until it's way too late anyway. You'd need to actually do the Edumacation career, unless you cheat for it, and therefore you'd likely max out well before you were even allowed to try.

It only makes a difference in that they keep going until their bar is full with rampage.  I was just commenting that I wasn't using it since it was still early in the semester, which is why I was surprised to see their bar more than 1/2 full after they did their term paper, without going to class or doing an assignment.

Not to mention that it takes less time to do the term paper and assignments in autumn too. :)

A parent could do that career and earn the bookcase, in which case the children could carry it to Uni in their inventory. No cheat required.  :D

See: "You'd need to actually do the career". If you've done the career, you are either A: Not in Uni, or B: Not Gen0. In either case, this makes it much too late to be hauling things to Uni for skillpoints! I suppose in a truly sadistic case you could have a child who doesn't need it haul it to Uni and leave it there as a donation, but that's just convoluted.

Sometimes my sims fall for dormies, and I move them in to skill them up.  They would benefit from the reward.

As soon as this bookcase has been added to a buyable rewards collection I will be putting it in my custom secret society lot.  Next time I start a hood with a CAS YA, he or she could use it at the secret society.  Maxis secret society lots have career rewards, so I don't see it as cheating to put one in my custom secret society lot.

Keep in mind that not everyone maxes out their kid skills.  Some players like their kids to do other things besides non-stop skilling, so sims who aren't gen0 could still benefit from the bookcase at Uni.

Yes, well, some people are also stupid and suck. If they're not in a hurry, what difference does it make anyway? Besides, kids can do plenty of things other than non-stop skilling. I'm churning out C-7s, which means that kids have 7 days and have maxed out everything. Snowman assault is clearly the order of the day. I wonder what a child snowman assault looks like. The "Knock Over Snowman" animations are great. I should see how well they adapt to regular fighting.

I usually leave one skill point for when they turn teens and I can make them knowledge sims and they can get the Max 7 Skills LTW.

That's what I do also, but the point is that you're functionally maxed. I recommend using the "cleaning" skill for this, as none of the private school cards are known to grant it and will therefore not unexpectedly be gained.

Ah, thanks for the tip.  I'll keep that in mind.

FYI, I discovered last night that pets get the 'autumn boost' too -- they learn commands faster.

It applies to toddler training too.

I wonder if it works for badge skilling as well.  Or even dance and pool skilling.

Don't know about dance and pool, but it's supposed to apply to badge skilling as well, and I'm pretty sure I saw the autumn leaves swirling around when one of my sims was working on the robotics station.

The swirling-around-the-progress-bar is likely a canned graphical effect affecting all progress bars, but this can be looked into.

I've seen this exhibited on the progress bar that shows up while writing a novel. I don't particularly think that there are any skills to be gained from that.

Creativity, if the sim isn't maxed out.

Well, he was maxed out in this case. Haha, I had no idea. I've always thought that they never gained anything by writing novels, except the profit at the end.

Does the autumn leaves effect around progress bars - for building robots and writing novels with maxed creativity - perhaps indicate that the progress is faster than in other seasons? Just a theory...

No, in most cases the autumn leaves effect is purely a canned graphical addon that afflicts all progress bars, regardless of whether or not they benefit from any associated bonus.

Does Fall clear the stuckage? I like the stuckage, resembles theories of learning during early childhood increasing the ability to learn later. If I never ever put a sim with stuckage in a thinking cap, should it stay even in fall or with teaching on a career reward? Resetting a sim will remove it, so that would include patches and hacks that affect globlas, right? In other words, what all exactly can clear the stuckage? Is there a list?
That's the whole theory behind my knowledge sim fraternity (co-ed, my only co-ed uni fraternity/sorority). Any sim is welcome, as long as they bring a career reward to donate to the household. In return, they receive training from the seniors maxed in the skill of their choice. If the career rewards in their parent's chosen field already exists at the fraternity, they are welcome if they are willing to provide training to others. Then again I have the warped idea that sim kids and teens should spend time playing and only require that they earn at least 5 in cooking and 2 in mechanical, with a little more occasionally. Maybe some charisma from the toddler bunny. Then when they go to Uni there is actually something for them to do rather than just throw waterbaloons and wait for the final.

YA sims have no time to skill - they are in the thrall of ACR.

Fall will not remove the stuckage as it occurs as a global effect and not a sim-specific one. Resetting a sim will reset it, but not all hacks cause sims to reset. Patches will, however. Get your children maxed out (except possibly for a single cleaning point) as you will not be able to re-supernuke them. Toddlers can just be renuked, so no major loss there, other than the hours you lose doing it killing your speedrun.

Eh, at this point I can turn out C-8 and C-7 everytime, so they have way too much time "playing"....not that there's really anything to play with. I mean, what exactly WOULD they do? The game doesn't have anything to play *WITH*. They can't shoot off automatic weapons, swing around heavy objects in a decidedly antisocial manner, or do any of the interesting things kids normally do...at least now we can put them to work as slave labor on the farm.

Perhaps you could mod the bubbles they blow into the fire we were promised before the release of TS2, and then your children could be happy.

I'm glad I'm not the only person who remembers that. There's so much missing from that video they made it's not even funny.

Had a smart kid skill with the bookcase in fall and it seems like by the time I clicked to close the window, a new window would appear announcing a new skill point.  It was the fastest I've ever seen a skill bar increase.  I give it 2 thumbs up.  I should have him at max skills in less than 3 Sim days.

*3* days? You suck. I do that in 1. :P

Am I the only one who doesn't max out my sims' skills by the time they are teens? I like for them to have something to actually do while at uni, so I only give them 8-10 skillpoints in a few areas - just enough so they can afford a rental house on their own, if they I want. Permaplat and fully-skilled sims are boring, IMO. I like the challenge of needing skillpoints and/or friends to advance in their careers.

I don't bother with skilling much at all, toddlers do because they're playing and it's realistic, otherwise my sims pretty much gain points as they need them for jobs. I've only maxed skills on very few sims and that would probably be the ones that have it as a lifetime aspiration. Don't use influence at all, can't be bothered, even sim wants don't dictate the stories I play.

Bah. Default influence wants and boring and dumb. They never want to stir up trouble. If one of my sims wanted to start a fight or get someone to cheat, I'd probably use influence more often.

So, not sure if I have an unexplainable bug or unique system 'feature', but all of this seems to pale in comparison to multi-tasking the skilling actions with the career rewards.  100%, 200%, 500%, what does it matter if you can have most skills advancing at the same time?  I have always wondered about this but I have never seen it mentioned before.

If you have a trainable sim ask another sim of higher level for help learning a skill on one of the career reward objects, then while that session is still going on have that first sim ask for help with a different reward object, the sims will automatically transition to the next object and the skilling will continue for the first item as well as the next.  Continue this in a like manner and soon you can have all skills advancing at the same time, except cleaning.  Combine this with a thinking cap on the training sim and in this way you can max a sims' skills in a day or two, providing you have enough reward objects and a 'teacher' sim who is already maxed.

Feature, exploit, or bug?  I wonder if this works for anyone else or is it just because my game functions off of the energy derived from a BFBVFS?  Certain reward objects like the fingerprints scanner will not combine with others in such a way, but most do.  I know at least that I have never used a skill related hack.

N.B.  Perhaps the thinking cap is required for this, I can't remember if I ever tried it without one.

The chain-training bug is a known issue, but seems to be rather unreliable, as it doesn't always work for all games. I've never been enable to get it to work. Conversely, the Smart Milk IQ thing appears to be an intentional feature by design.

Works for me. But, you have to do it in a certain order. The fingerprint scanner has to be used alone. Also, the mechanical skill doohickey has to be used last.

I usually do it thusly:
Cooking (always works with a child..do not attempt if the Teen or adult Sim has less than 6 pts cooking. They will cause a puddle and interupt the action) With a child or teen/adult with more than 6 cooking, make sure the adult has moved over to the prep area and is making the goodies. If you do the ask interaction before this, it breaks the chain. I do this first, as it's the trickiest to get in the chain.
Then : ask> charisma ( putter or podium) Ask> Body ( punching bag works best, sketchy with the obstacle course) Ask> creativity ( lie detector) Ask> mechanical. These can be mixed , but the mechanical has to be last.

I have not attempted this with the new Seasons career rewards. But, I have been using this for years with no problems. Now I need to try it with the guitar and law podium . We'll see how it goes.

I have not noticed the issue with the surgical station needing to be used last, although I have noticed that sometimes it takes much longer for the sims to back out of that object and move on to the next.  Also, the chocolate factory can be used in this for sims with no or low cooking skill to start, but the order to move on to a different object must be given before the skilling on that object drops out.

This seems to be a very odd sort of thing to be a bug affecting only some people.  I wonder what causes it?  The only obvious differences in peoples' games, outside of hacks, that I can think of right away are patches installed or not, or base game CD or DVD editions.  I have all patches and DVD base game.  I actually always wondered why there were separate patches for CD or DVD base game, unless there was some actual difference in the core game, perhaps?  Once installed, why would it matter if the game was CD or DVD edition, unless they were different somehow? 

If you back out of the chocolate factory before the Sim 'shuts it down' it can get stuck in the chocolate making mode. It will run interminably until the action is initiated again and the machine is properly shut down.  It bugs the hell out of me to hear that humming and squishing sound day and night. Hey, but that's just me.  I suppose you could put the contraption in the basement so you don't hear it day and night.

I still haven't tested the rock guitar, I don't have any teens available at the moment for testing, but will next play session. Obviously, children can't ask for lessons on that particular object. I have another lot where the law podium award is available. I will have to test it, but I assume it will work the same as the teleprompter.

So it is the knowledge book not the bookcase that gives the boost, right? So if a sim went to put a book back on the case and a cat was sitting in front of it and the book was put on the floor, then the book was put into the sim's inventory, that book can now be given to a non-edumacation-bookshelf-having-family and that family will recieve the bonus?
Hey, can those books be sold?

Good question Sara. And to further exploit this, if it works, you could maybe give it as a gift to someone without the award?

I thought I was being so smart when I had a teen sim put all the scattered career-reward-bookshelf books in her inventory, then sent her to college. Boy, was I disappointed when I took them out and they could only be used for cooking, mechanical, and cleaning. I don't know if their boost remained, because I deleted them out of anger.

Well, that blows my exploit out of the water.  :-\

There's always the "unlockCareerRewards" cheat. I figure that if a family member has earned the bookcase, there's no reason their spawn can't bring a functioning one to college.

The book is actually linked to the bookcase, so if you delete the bookcase, it will stop working. In fact, if you put it in your inventory, it will stop working even if you take it back out, because the instance ID of the bookcase is stamped onto the book and checked for to determine if it's a true goldbook. Sadly, this means you can't sell it.

Yeah, I know. But, I try to play without cheating. It sucks the life out of the game for me. I don't mind some tweaks and critical mods plus certain annoyance mods. I don't consider them cheating. My summa grads start at level 9 and go to 10 in one day. They can also apply for all the jobs and nab the career rewards. It takes about 3 days to collect them all; that's if they rotate into the job bin the way they should. It's too damn easy to get to the top of the career track the way it is. Harder Jobs works nicely for me. I had to get it because it was so ridiculously easy to perma-ignore a Sim with a job related LTW.

Job LTWs are only medium-speed LTWs. FAST LTws are "Max all skills", and even faster, "earn 100K". Those you can do within seconds of transitioning and getting an LTW.

You're right...those are also ridiculously easy. The one that I've never accomplished is 20 simultaneous lovers. I get tired just watching the poor Sim. And, trying to keep track of who they've bonked and maintaining the affairs is just tiring for me.  I have one Romance Sim languishing at Uni...he's up to 9. I'm actually thinking of failing him every semester just so he can knock boots with a few more Uni students. At least they don't wander into my downtown. I'm saving downtown for after the transition. Then he can cut a swath through that neighborhood. I suck at playing romance sims. They bore me.

Romance Sims at Uni:  Just meet a lot of elegible students.  When you move back to the neighborhood, invite them over one at a time for a quick woohoo.  They don't walk past the house, so you won't have a problem with jealousy.  I did this once when I cheated Goopy into Uni (which didn't work too well, btw, but he did meet enough coeds to get his LTW later).

The Edumacation bookcase reward:  Just before your teen shuffles off to Uni, put it in his inventory.  It works at Uni without problems.  The parents are probably already maxed in all skills so don't need it for themselves, and if there are younger siblings at home, the parents can either get another or send the siblings to the same dorm so they can use the bookcase too.

Hook

I'm going to 'attempt' to perma plat him whilst in college. If I can't, I'm sure I can get damn close.

I do send my teens off to Uni with a full 'fruitbowl'. The strawberry lemondae comes in handy when I don't feel like granting their needs. I can plat 'em with one dose.  The edumacation bookcase is a good idea, but I have yet to have a teen leave the house without max skills. I always save 1 skill point for Sims who are knowledge. That way if the Max skills comes up...Wham!  Platinum. Since installing Seasons, I have not had one, no not one, LTW to max all skills. They all want to be criminals, gamers, musians or adventureres.  The wheel of fortune hasn't been spinning well for me since the installation.

Off on a tangent: (I should just post this in the Podium), has anyone noticed that non-resident family friends no longer count towards the total for job promotions since Seasons?  It's happening to me across all hoods and careers.  I tested with a clean hacks folder and it's still occuring. I have no custom careers or other such nonsense. LOL For example: (shuffles papers around) I had a Sim in the Medical career track. She lived alone and had 17 'friends'.  Nine of them were non-resident family members. When she returned home from work she didn't get her promotion...her friends count wasn't high enough. WTF. I had to haul ass to the phone and call up some Sims to make up for two she was missing.  Then again, maybe it's just my game.

It's been that way since Pets.

The family friend rules have always been kinda wonky. For some reason you can't count family members as family friends, and the friend count is by household, not actual "family" friends. It's sort of like some bizarre mutant version of TS1's rules warped to fit into TS2.

Good to know it's not my game. I could have sworn that family members that are friends (not living with the Sim) used to count for promotions.  I know the big Sim on campus memory doesn't count family, but career requirements did , or so I thought. Guess I must have been smokiin' crack.

I rarely, if ever, max my sims' skills.

I just don't see the need.

A cook (generally) doesn't go out of his way to build his muscles, does he?

Clearly, you're not a reader of Armored Chef magazine, the publication for military and para-military cooks.

But there are no military cook levels in the game.

Ergo, I generally don't build their body skills.

But without body skills, you can't lure the terrorists that kidnap your daughter into the kitchen, chop them into bits, and declare that "No One Beats You In the Kitchen".

This sounds very much like a Stephen Segal movie.

Have you ever had to lift a pan full of eight stuffed lobsters? Those suckers are heavy.

But seriously, my non-body-point-needing sims only get enough to make them fit, if they desire fitness or someone who is attracted to fitness. Any past that are purely accidental from the dance sphere or the pool.

How do you get eight stuffed lobsters?  Mine only serve six unless I use a hack. 

*smacks self*
Six, not eight. I've only been playing this game from day one, but apparently I can't count. Still, they'd be heavy.

I was reading some of the tool tips when I was playing yesterday and I noticed a few of them about skilling said that some personalities learn some skills faster than others. Like neat sims learning cleaning faster and Outgoing & Nice sims being better at learning charisma, now I know some of the tool tips are false like active sims needing more sleep.. but how true are the ones about skilling?

Yup, it's true.

Neat - Cleaning
Serious - Logic
Playful - Creativity
Outgoing - Charisma
Active - Body

Nothing helps mechanical or cooking.  For every point over 5 you earn the skill 10% faster, up to 50% faster if that personality trait is maxed.  That's reversed for serious, so +10% for every point of playful below 5.  There is no penalty for being at the opposite end, so sims of neat 0 learn cleaning just as fast as those with neat 5.

I thought it was always lazy Sims who learned logic faster.

Lazy sims are more prone to sedentary activities like chess, but have no direct bonus to their learn rate.  Still, as logic is one of the skills they'll autonomously work at, lazy sims will likely have higher logic scores if left alone due to aforementioned preference.

The personality affinity to Chess is actually "Serious", not lazy. Unless these two personality traits are linked, you're just imagining things. Lazy sims learn ALL skills more slowly, because they have no endurance or speed: When they need to refuel, they can't move quickly enough to get it over with in a timely manner, so what WOULD have been a 30-minute run for an active sim becomes a 3 HOUR run for a lazy sim. Furthermore, lazy sims run out of gas very quickly, constantly whining for their pathetic sleep. There is nothing that lazy sims do that an active sim cannot do better.

Sleep?

No, active sims do that better also. Lazy sim are likely to pass out on the floor before making it to their bed.

So if you need both Logic AND Creativity, you're screwed....

Well, good thing.  If not, thre would be a "perfect knowledge sim personality", and that would be boring.  It's already too boring!

I don't think that the personalities usually make a noticable difference in skilling.  That is not to say that I don't believe that there is a difference, I do.  I just don't usually pay attention to them when they are skillinating because it frees me to do something more interesting with another sim.  I have never had any difficulty getting a sim to max all skills, but if I bother or not will depend on what their individual story is.

Thinking back it does make sense, I remember when I got a Child with 10 Activity to max body skill in 2 days and I didn't use Smart milk much back then, Just the Punch bag and a Servo. But now most of my sims have very similar personalities so I guess I stopped noticing different learning rates between them. Now I don't use Smart milk at all after getting bored of Young Adults and Adults with max skills and nothing to do.. so now I know what Scholarships to concentrate on to reflect there personalities, which is better than going for 6-8 random ones :)

It changes nothing. There would STILL be a "perfect knowledge sim personality": One that optimizes the tradeoffs to produce the minimum learning time for all skills. The actual truth is more complicated than that, anyway: In addition to the raw learn rate benefits, there is also the tradeoff imposed by how personality affects motive decay rates, with Outgoing sims having markedly faster Social decay than Shy sims and Active sims losing energy MUCH more slowly than Lazy sims, and soforth. Also, the effects on locomotion: An active sim moves so much faster than a lazy sim, that combined with the slower energy decay, results in the active sim getting more than twice as much done in the same amount of time.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105690/

(Sorry about the necro)

Thanks, Drakron! I know everyone here has been spending the last seven months on pins and needles wondering which Steven Segal movie Gwill might have been thinking of. You have put everyone's mind at ease.

O.o That... actually explains why my playful lazy slob quickly maxed creativity but whined like a little bitch when I was trying to get his body points up. And the idiot's LTW was to be Captain Hero. Hey, baby, you need body points for that, not the ability to rock out!

I've just worked out a less obvious implication of that..... sims born in game will tend to learn faster than new bodyshop or CAS sims, because they have so many personality points they are bound to have more 5+ traits....  Add the stuck milk effect and born in game sims have it really easy compared to CAS sims!

Any information yet on how the new FT skilling objects compare to the existing ones?  (Not really impatient here, just curious....)

Karen

Toddler Activity bench is 150, so it is superior to other toddler skillers and grants Mech and Creativity. Nursery Rhymes are 100 and grant Cha, which outpaces the Rabbit Head. As a rule, for CTAE, none of the new skilling objects really are relevant, but for toddlers, all of the new actions are superior to their original counterparts. Only the Logic Pegbox withstands the test of time, but has lost its top-billing to the Activity Bench. All nurseries will likely need extensive restructuring, as the Activity table is quite large and demands 4x4 clearance room. The Xylophone is basically obsolete, although Enthusiasm concerns may enter into it: The Activity bench will build Art, while Xylophone should build music (unverified). However, it is insuperior as a skilling object, especially since the Activity Bench in Block mode also grants Mech and Tinker simultaneously.

Pardon my ignorance, but what's CTAE?

I love the activity table.  Especially the fact that it 1) builds more than one skill, and 2) can be used by both toddlers and kids.  Good to know that it beats the other toddler toys, which I had long since grown utterly sick of :)

Karen

Child, Teen, Adult, Elder.

I wasn't aware it was usable by kids, but such a thing would be pointless, as a 150 LR is categorically insuperior to other child-enabled items.

Kids can definitely use it for drawing; I've seen that in my game.  (And then, just like the easel, it leaves a half-completed drawing on the table that must be "scrapped" by the next person to come along who wants to use the table.  :()  I wonder if the activity table builds social (toddler-toddler or toddler-kid interactions) like the dollhouse?

I'm very pleased so far with the new toddler items in this EP.  It's LONG past time the little rugrats got some extra attention!

Karen

Table gives four spots for drawing, though, in a relatively smaller size than four easels (plus, ya know, toddler-enabled). In a nursery with twins or more, it's way more efficient than as many other toys as you would need space-wise. I've never cared much if my toddlers skill, I just want them out of the toilet and not stalking their parents.

I only got The option to teach one nursery rhyme to the toddler. I can't remember the skill point(s)? awarded, but didn't have the option to teach another rhyme. So the charisma rabbit may be around a while yet; I loathe the soundtrack of the damn thing!

Toddlers can still gain charisma from the rhyme after learning it, by singing the rhyme to themselves, though I found the process of doing this manually - queuing up rhyme after rhyme - fairly tedious. (They also gain music enthusiasm - I kept at it long enough to get the toddler membership to the music lot, then let him have the rabbit)

And pictures on the drawing table can be grabbed and stuck on the wall, like paintings from the easel. I'm stashing them in the toddler responsible's inventory for now.

So far as I can see, the toddler table doesn't build relationships between toddlers or children. I was disappointed when I watched several use it and no one was talking.

I didn't at first realize that you have to pick up tiny drawings from the activity table directly to keep them, just like you pick up paintings from an easel. The "scrap" option is completely borked. It doesn't save drawings in Sim's inventory, so it's practically same as "clean up". Also I noticed that every time adults scrap/clean up kid's drawings from the activity table, they take quite a hit in their energy. It makes no sense, how could it possibly be such an exhausting activity?  ::)

When I have two toddlers on the activity table, it doesn't take long before they get to 100/100 with each other. 

I've been replaying Strangetown, and Lazlo & Vidcund got abducted the same night.  Their toddlers are now 100/100 with each other due to the table, and they still have one day left as toddlers.

For the same reason why making/serving espresso lowers fun when it's about 90% or higher?

So far I haven't had anybody get the option to teach a nursery rhyme to anybody. Are there some skill or hobby requirements for this option to appear?

Don't think so, all my families have been able to teach the toddler a nursery rhyme. Quite cute rly.

I noted the other day when I was playing that the option only seemed to come up when the toddler was on the ground - ie if I clicked while my sim was holding the toddler it didn't appear, but once he put the kid down it did.

I got a toddler to skill in charisma when learning the nursery rhyme.

Anyways FT seemed to has taken away the playing with toilet and puddle madness that I used an awesome (now the hacker is no-longer awesome) hack to remove since it was so annoying.

Now the toddlers are glued to the activity table that not even the Eye can seem to squeeze them off to make a sim teach them to use the toilet.

Bug, or feature? Your call, Pescado.

Mostly, it has to do with the EXTREMELY LENGTHY undocking protocol involved in the table.

Or docking with it -- always seems like it takes the sprog 2 or 3 tries to get into position at the table, no matter where I put it or what's around it.  Anyway, if I want the parent to interact with the toddler to teach something, I just turn on the manual override on the BC, get the sprog away from the table, and then send the parent over to the kid.

I cancel the toddler playing then double-cue the parent to teach, which seems to work fine.

I put the parent nearby in procrastinate mode. Then stop the toddler and queue procrastinate for it. Then put the command in the parent's queue. By the time the toddler has disengaged, it waits for the next command. If I forget to turn off the baby controller I usually end up with another family sim charging in and trying to take over, which is very irritating.

The necromancy warning is nice. Hadn´t seen that before. Anyway I think this is the right place to post. In the first post the skillingrate for fixing up a restorable car is not given. Does anyone know the rate for it? It is a nice way to gain tinkering enthusiasm and earn money, so I would like if it has a good skillingratio as well.

I would also love to have it integrated in the macros in some way, as the sim will stop working on the motor when it backfires.

I don't know the skillingrate, if there is one, for the fixable car, but the hobbinate->tinker macro properly handles the restoration, including retry after backfire.

Does anyone know what the skilling rate is for the new teaching interactions in FreeTime?  Is having one sim teach another a skill worth doing?  I was suprised to find a knowledge sim didn't refuse to teach a sim he'd just met.  I think it built the friendship as well as the skill which made it doubly useful. Hooking a second sim into the action made it look very like "hang out'

Don't know about the skilling rate, but having a sim teach others in a hobby is really fast.  The sims being taught will rise at least 1 level every hour.

Rate is only 200, same as most standard objects. Nothing special or even worth the handshake time. You're imagining it.

Well, it seems faster to me. :)

Base rate is not the only factor involved in skilling, so any number of things, including simply your imagination, may account for it. The table is given above, so you can calculate exactly how long it will take.

Yea, but that's for using skilling objects.  I'm talking about the "instruct in hobby" interaction, where one sim talks, and others sit around on the floor and listen.  Does that also increase the hobby "skill" at the base rate? The ones being instructed seem to pick up a point or three in the hobby rather quickly, and it seems faster than if they use a hobby object to gain the same skill.

Oh, you mean enthusiasms. That is not the same as a skill. Rates for those tend to vary widely. Gain rates on hobby enthusiasm has not been compiled in a document at this time, and it is unlikely I will bother, since they are unimportant. Nothing of importance depends on optimizing them and they will, by default, quickly decay back to nothingness.

Yea, that's what I meant -- terrible choice of words on my part.  I actually kind of do wish they had some kind of importance, other than potentially killing your sim since they forget to do things like eat while they're in the zone.

Well, I added a motive-display informator. So now you can see if the Zone effect actually does anything anywhere.

Awww... what happened to the cool and scary Necromancy picture? Or isn't it loading for me?

Anyways I was wonder which of the bonuses "stack" for skilling. It's been a while since I played Bon Voyage so sorry if I say anything innacurate. So let's say I've been on vacation and a chose that reward that let's you skill faster. It's fall and that gives me another skilling bonus. My sim is a knowledge sim and has aspiration points spent in that "you learn things faster thing (Eureka?)". Before sending my sim to skill I let her wear the "thinking cap".

Do all of these bonuses stack? And if they don't, which bonuses do stack?

All of those bonuses stack.  (I actually did that, but I included the Far East collection thing.)

Just wondering about the skill-building potential of the new objects in AL.  The playground items, in particular.  How do they compare to existing objects?  Are any of them superior to what we already had?

Karen

Haha.  I was wondering that as well.  For one thing, "jump rope" is so much easier for body now, since it's free, child-elder can do it with very little required space, and it's even fun!  Would have made the game so much easier to have that from day one...   :D

Do skill bonuses like Thinking Cap or Far East collection affect Life skills (like Parenting) and Magic skills in FT & AL? Or are they only for regular 7 skills?

Only the 7 barred skills. None of the other skills work based on +skill gain or the skill tracker, so don't apply IQ. Only specific toddler skills represent the special case, and they only work on raw IQ, no special modifiers. What's more, the Asian collection is not applied to non-adults, so it is of very restricted usefulness.

I'm interested in how jump rope compares as well...