More Awesome Than You!

I was thinking that it would be nice to make customised versions of the default add-in neighbourhoods, minus the extra Sims that come with them, so that I don't a) wind up adding more Sims to a neighbourhood than I actually need to, and b) I don't wind up playing the same Sims in two different neighbourhoods unless I really want to.

So what I was wondering was, is it possible to make these new templates with the in-game tools and a little copy-paste action, or are there more steps that need to be taken?

Well, the original maps of Pleasantview, Strangetown and Veronaville - also Downtown and Bluewater though I'm not sure about the Universities - are in the terrains folder and you can easily make a new neighbourhood using those.  Do you mean you also want to import the families as well?

I think he may also be talking about decorations and lots...

can't you just add the sub-hood you want and deleteallcharacters?  it will regen townies and such as needed unless you have the hack to provent that, but it will delete everyone once.

deleteallcharacters will do just that - EVERYONE from the whole neighbourhood including all playable sims.  You can use it anywhere in the main neighbourhood or sub-neighbourhoods and it deletes everyone from the main neighbourhoods and sub-neighbourhoods.

Actually, if the OP wants to create just add-on sub-neighbourhoods modelled on the original ones, perhaps it's possible just to delete the extra characters (from the characters folder) before you run the neighbourhood.  This would be a matter of working out which files were added with the add on.  As the sims haven't been played, they won't have developed any interlinked memories/relationships with the existing resident sims.  You'd probably need to evict any sims that are on lots before you delete.  Personally, I do this with a test neighbourhood first.  I do wonder whether it would cause issues with a University sub-neighbourhood.

Oh ha, that would have sucked if s/he tried it then and didn't want to loose the other hoods.  I never used it so I thought it would be specific to which hood/sub-hood you were in.  That blows.

But I guess if you don't mind the townies that come with the hood, what's wrong with just deleting the playables that come with the game in-game?  Of course if you do mind the townies then, what maxon said.  I guess I just don't get what's so wrong with townies.  I know people say they're oogly, but I think they're better looking then the girl-guys with super shiney skin and lipstick I see other people make.  To each their own hmm.

Under \EA GAMES\Die Sims 2 Open For Business\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate', for instance, you'll find the folder B001. Just add your own neighborhood folder and name it B002. Then in game, when you want to create a new shopping district, you can choose between Bluewater Village and your self-made hood. In your case, you could make a copy of B001, name it B002 and take all character files out.
Or, you could just create a normal subhood, then leave the game and remove all new characterfiles.

If you delete the playables in game, they actually don't go away.  At least you don't see them in game anymore but their character files are still lurking in the characters folder (albeit in a ripped state with most of the information taken out).  This can make sorting things out with SimPE a bit awkward if you don't know exactly who is who and also, in the long run, too many character files can cause problems (less so since Nightlife).  You might say, why not just delete them manually - however, this can cause much worse problems in that you need a sim file if other playable sims have memories or a previous relationship with them.  This is because the game connects the memories/relationships of sim to these non-deleted ripped files.  If you delete a connected sim, this can lead down the long and very slippery slope to GAME CORRUPTION (draws in breath sharply).  Not a good idea.

Oh - and I completely agree about the plastic sims I see all over the place (I have the same reaction to plastic people but that's an issue for another day)

What I'm actually trying to achieve is depopulated versions of the existing sub-hoods.  I might customise them a little too (for example, get rid of or mend some of the awfully-designed houses) but since they're only a template for a new sub-hood there's no need to go wild.  It might save a little time when bringing old neighbourhoods up to speed with those I have been using to test the water, and avoid increasing the number of Sims.

It's safe enough to create a blank new neighbourhood, create the desired sub-hood, and then use DeleteAllCharacters on that to get the result.  However, the lots in the template folders are named diffferently to 'live' lots in functioning neighbourhoods, so merely copying the folder probably will result in TS2 barfing when it tries to use the new template, or it just won't recognise it.  Of course I could be wrong about that, but I've become accustomed to disappointment when trying things the easy way ;)


This is exactly why I'm after a sub-hood that doesn't bring any unwanted Sims to the neighbourhood :)

So I went ahead anyway and tried this out with an empty sub-hood, to get an idea of the feasibility.

At this stage there's a tiny little thing (the ID number) that can be altered in SimPE, which may make a difference or not.

The problem is that, although I can get my vacant new sub-hood to appear on the list of templates when creating a new business district, I can't actually select it because of the honking great 'Bluewater Village' button which like to be pushed instead.  So until I can figure a way to make it vanish, it's going to be impossible to try any custom sub-hoods except if they're college campuses, thankfully with the College chooser there is no big button in sight.

I'm not sure what you're saying here - if you have no resident sims, then deleteallcharacters would be the way to go.  Easy. Peasy. Lemon. Squeasy.

What sub-hoods do you want to attach?

Oh, yes, there's a little link JUST BELOW THE HONKING GREAT BLUEWATER VILLAGE BUTTON.  It says something like 'Advanced neighbourhood creation'

Just checked - it's 'Create a Custom Shopping District'. Here's a quick screenie - is that what you meant?

Sorry it's in a zip - the board doesn't allow jpgs

Sorry, that's not it.  As you can see here, I've create a new business district template, but the list is obscured by the button - so I've cloned the new district to make the list longer and that means I can actually click the third item on the list.


It isn't pretty, but it works up to this point.  However, attempting to create from the template causes Sims 2 to crash, so evidently there's something still to be done to make it work.

Small update: Okay, Sims 2 did crash while creating the new sub-hood, but it was created anyway.  I don't know for sure why, it could be that more work in SimPE is needed to make the new template match the format of the old.  This is as much as I can do on an empty stomach :-\

Well, there's definitely something wrong with that.  Let's try this again. 

You want to make a sub-hood with the lots and decorations as they are in the Maxis originals but without the sim families.

Why not just create the sub-hood and use deleteallcharacters as vaughje originally suggested?  If you want townies back, I'm pretty sure there's a work around to recreate them or you can just regenerate them.

Or are you trying to create a template that you can add on to any Neighbourhood, like Bluewater or a uni sub-hood is added on?

Yeah, that's right.  I have existing neighbourhoods which don't have a University/Downtown/Shopping District associated with them, and using deleteallcharacters would be problematic.  Being able to use ones created from template to fill in the gaps, even if it is just a blank-slate version of a Maxis sub-hood, has a definite appeal.

I'm going to try 'cleaning' one of the existing universities and see if that works.

Update: Well, that actually went without any problems.  Perhaps the crash with the previous experiment was because Sims 2 expects a new sub-hood that has lots and things on it, which this new one does.  I'm going to test out the university (loading up the lots) before I declare victory ;)

Well, no, it wouldn't because the game is quite happy to generate completely empty sub-neighbourhoods by using the terrains in the terrains folder.  I was wondering whether you could make a test neighbourhood (empty) and attach, say, a university to it - Sim State or whatever it was.  Then evict everyone and delete all characters.  What you should have is a neighbourhood folder (in My Documents) with a series of lots in the Lots sub-folder - these files contain information about their placement in the neighbourhood as well as size and what's built there.  I wonder whether you could then add an empty version of the sub-neighbourhood to your working (main) neighbourhood.  This will still generate all the NPCs though not Maxis residents - at least for every university, you'd get a set of professors and students and so on - Downtown doesn't add any new NPCs after the first one though it will add the Downtown NPCs for the first Downtown a neighbourhood has, while adding an empty shopping sub-neighbourhood doesn't generate any extra NPCs at all as far as I can see).  And then you could try copying across all the lots from the test neighbourhood plus the N00*_University001.package from the test neighbourhood folder.  However, I'm thinking that there must have to be a reference in the main neighbourhood package file to the sub-hood and in that case the GUIDs wouldn't match.  However, you might be able to poke about in the files and work out how the referencing works.  I don't think there's been much work done on that though there might be something at the SimPE site.  I've had a quick look at some of these files in my own game and I can't find the information for the neighbourhood decorations anywhere though the lots are clear enough.

Well, I've not found any obvious problems so far.  That said, exercise caution when trying this at home - don't inflict a custom University on your favourite neighbourhood unless you've checked it out.

You will most likely need SimPE or some other means of editing package files.

• Enter The Sims 2 and create a new neighbourhood.  Don't use an existing neighbourhood and don't place any lots in the new neighbourhood.
• From there, create your new university.  Or Downtown.  Or Shopping District.  But only make one of the aforementioned.
• Now use deleteallcharacters at the console (press Ctrl-Shift-C) to eliminate all Sims but leave the lots standing.  You can amend the lots as needed.  You should also attend to the name and description of the college so you know that this is the one that has been cleaned.
• Exit The Sims 2 and navigate to \My Documents\EA Games\The Sims 2\Neighborhoods\N00x\ where x is the last-numbered neighbourhood you have created to date (the newest one).  Select the files and folders there like in this screenie:

• Copy those files and folders and navigate to \The Sims 2 University\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate\ where you should find the existing three university templates (or the existing one Downtown or Shopping District) in folders named consecutively e.g. U001, U002, U003.  Create a new folder that continues the sequence, and paste the files you copied in the last step, into the new folder.
• Now for some file renaming, and the more lots that were on the college campus, the more fun this will be  ::)  First, in the root of the folder, you want to rename N00x_University001.* to U004_Neighbourhood.* like in this screenie:

• In the Thumbnails folder, rename the package file (which is empty because there are no families to thumbnail) U004_FamilyThumbnails.package, and in the Lots folder, rename all lots so that they have a U004 prefix instead of N00x (see screenie).  Do not change the lot numbers, The Sims 2 will renumber them when creating a new college anyway.

• The Characters folder should be empty.  The Storytelling folder contains thumbnails and screenshots from the college you've cloned, you can choose which to keep and which to bin when you use it.  If nothing else, it gives the place some history.
• It's time to fire up SimPE.  You want to open the U004_Neighborhood.package file (in the new U004 folder you made as a template college) for editing.  The first thing you will notice is that although all characters have been deleted, some records still remain.  Click the Family Information filter on the left to view all the families still present.  If you click on each one for more information you will see that all its members are 'Unknown' which is the result of wiping all characters in that family.  You can safely get rid of all the families, but I chose to leave 'Default' alone, since it references no Sims anyway:

• You can also update the Catalog Description for different localisations:

• Finally, you need to change the information stored against IDNO:

• Save your edited package file where it is right now.  Remember that SimPE will make a backup of the file, so if this all goes wrong, you can go back to that and try again.
• Enter The Sims 2 and attempt to create your new university in a testing neighbourhood.  If all is well you can try moving Sims onto a dorm lot.  When you do this, NPCs will be regenerated after a short time, unless you have hacks specifically preventing their respawning.

As you can see above, it's a lot of poking around, but it only needs to be done once, after each expansion pack if I'm guessing right, so that's not so bad.

Simply put, each neighbourhood is self-contained, but they all reference a common set of data - Characters, and Lots.  This is why I say to only create the one sub-hood after creating a blank base neighbourhood.  In this way you only have one set of Lot files, which are for the University, and the package file for the university references these lots without difficulty even when you haul it all out, tranpose it to the templates folder, and then create a new university based on that.  Or so it would seem ;)

The actual decorations for a neighbourhood are stored within the package file, using some of the arrays.  After all, it's just 'this decoration' at a certain XYZ.

Uh-huh - yes, that makes sense.  I think I'll have another look.  I like your method and might give it a try myself - thanks for posting. 

The only thing that might give cause for concern is if Maxis adds on new default sub-hoods of existing types but that doesn't seem very likely - they seem keener to create endless other sub-hoods for the sims to visit rather than a new University for them to attend.  Which is all well and good - I wouldn't have a use for another university.

On a slightly different note, unless you actually want Bluewater, I can't see any particular reason for adding a shopping sub-hood at all.

Well Bluewater does contain a whole range of ready-made community lots to use in building a business empire.

More importantly if I can clean it to use as a new template, then it's also possible to clone a shopping district I built myself.

Finally, if builders ever wanted to share an entire district instead of individual lots, this would be proof it can be done :)

Marvin, this has been very helpful, since I just created a whole bunch (14+) of custom Uni buildings, I wanted my own template.  I do have a question though:  I've never used SimPe before this but I was able to do everything you stated, except:  when I went to delete my families in SimPe there weren't any.  Do you think this is unusual?  Or did my DAC just get lucky maybe LOL. 

If you're looking for clean templates of the Maxis default 'hoods, downtown, unis and shopping district, I suggest you check out SaraMK's thread in the Peasantry: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=4306.0

You can take your pick from templates that have had all characters removed, or templates that only contain playable characters.  They definitely came in handy when I followed her tutorial on merging the Maxis 'hoods!

Thank you but I made my own Uni hood - now I'm trying to make it a template and having a little trouble.  It's in the list of Uni's to choose from but when I select it my game crashes ("program will now terminate" or something).

That's the same problem I ran into, which is why I finally came up with a better idea - rip files out of a working template. SimPE simply doesn't show you all the numbers that need to changed in ID Number, so you can't create a working template that way.

Here's what you need to do, if you want to make your template work the easy way. Choose a Maxis Uni that you are willing to give up. Then follow my "Merging The Maxis Neighborhoods" tutorial that's in the Peasantry. Just the part that explains how to fool the game into thinking a custom 'hood is a template. You will lose one of the Maxis templates, but yours should work fine.

oh!  I hadn't thought of merging a uni.  Duh!  LOL Thank you - I'll give it a try tomorrow and let you know :)

I'm making a shopping hood on desert terrain and I'd quite like to have it alongside Bluewater in the default list.  It's attached to an empty 'hood, so the only characters are the maxis generated townies and NPCs.   got it right so far I think... Have to come back and read this all again later...  Just one question for now....

Is it only the playables in the Bluewater hood character file or does it come with ready generated shoppers?  If the townies are in the template I need to take the ones I've got into my new default or I'll have no townie shoppers to buy my overpriced stuff!  I don't have Uni and NL, so I'm not overburdened with rich shoppers especially in Strangetown.

Thank you very much to Marvin Kosh for the detailed information on neighborhood template creation.

I think the problem Marvin had is that you can't make a sub-hood into a template.  It's not that SimPE isn't showing you what you need to edit, it's that the sub-hood is not complete.  I couldn't turn a sub-hood into a template either, but  I've just turned a 'hood into a shopping sub-hood by renumbering files and changing the ID and hood number like Marvin showed us.  It's on desert terrain with some shoppers.  I think we all need an alternative to Bluewater and this sure is different!  I'll put a thread in Peasantry when a couple more people have tested it out for me and I've figured out how to send large files.  It's 20MB in RAR.

I did just what Marvin said except I started with a hood NOT a sub-hood.

This method works for downtown's as well. ;D  I made a test hood today with 4 lots from MTS2 and Motoki says it works.  We didn't get as far as figuring out whether the special characters would generate as needed like contessa vamp and mr big.  I'd have trouble making a decent downtown though as I don't have NL and the NL content on the lots I used disappeared in transit. :(  I'll think about it some more, but I'm going to try making a 4th Uni next - check that works too.  Can't see why it wouldn't but a test would be a good idea.

Thanks Marvin for the great tutorial!

OBJECTION! (http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=1396915)

Thread unlocked and moved due to request.

This method seems to have stopped working with The Seasons.  When you create a new 'hood in The Seasons, you get a "free" suburb thrown in for the seasons stuff.  I tried just deleting that when I did the conversion from hood to suburb, but that didn't work.  Lechapeau and I have found a work around - you can use Numeor's BaseGameStarter tool to create the new hood in a pre-seasons version of your game. http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=107015 So it is still possible to make an alternative suburb or a downtown, but it's a lot more messy and rules out using Seasons stuff in the 'hood.  Does anyone have any experience to share on this or any better ideas?

When I installed Seasons, I found that:
1. The counter isn't fixed.  You have to swap Sedona and Bluewater in the default folder to install your choice.  You get the big Bluewater icon in game even if it is Sedona in the default files. 
2. you can't add Bluewater to a hood that already has Sedona or vice versa. You can only add an empty map.
3. the game doesn't like missing suburb numbers from deleting suburbs - I'm still investigating that one, but the screen starts flashing when I try to get into them. could be some other problem I suppose, but the only problems are with hoods where the suburb numbers didn't run 001, 002, 003 http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,9008.0.html

I did start making a second default suburb for OFB, but it got too big.  It's up for download in its own right instead.
www.moreawesomethanyou.com/cwykes

Thanks.

I don't have the Season's problem because I'm creating all my hoods in a basegame environment. It also means a lot of the information in this (and SaraMK's & the referenced threads) aren't quite relevant. I have only created replacement Neighbourhoods and template N001's so far. I start with completely empty Neighbourhoods thanks to SaraMK's empty templates. There's only a couple of NPC's that you can spawn via the letterbox and no spawn options on the Sim in the basegame environment. A lot of the NPC's are simply a question of patience to spawn - repo men are the hardest/longest to create. By creating the NPC's this way I ensure that there is no extra information, but that (of course) is going to be harder when I try attachment Neighbourhoods.

Rereading this thread and SaraMK's leads me to the conclusion that I'm just going to have to go on another learning curve when I start to create the themed ep Neighbourhoods because the cheats and spawn options have changed so much with every ep.

But, then again, the trying and the screaming at the monitor when it doesn't work is half the fun.  ;)

If you're working in base game only - making a subhood is easy.  Well it's easy the second or third time!   ;D
The tedious part is the SimPE clean up and the annoying thing is that you can't get back from the sub-hood to the hood, so if you find a problem in testing, you have to go round the whole cycle again.

1. make your 'hood

2. Edit hood files in SimPE :
2.1  delete the grim reaper and other sims you really don't want two of
2.2  look for unknown sims and relationships to unknown sims - some are legit, some aren't - fix as necessary
2.3  delete any sims you don't want - the Pescado way
2.4  fix any special items for the sub-hood type e.g. convert one lot to SS and some to dorms
2.5  fix anything you want to fix. e.g family trees and ages of CAS made sims.

3. change the type and index number of the hood

4. renumber the files to B001, D001 or U001/2/3 depending on what kind of suburb it is to be

5. add it to a test hood and look at it in game and in SimPE.  Take lots of pics while you are testing it.

6. When it looks OK to you, ask for testers - you'll need pics for publicity.  While they are testing, do some more work on the albums and pics so you are ready to launch it properly.

Some other musings....
1. Special NPCs should generate should generate even if you didn't make them.  I've tested a basic downtown and uni, but they weren't played for long enough to check out the special stuff.  I've only made a busingess suburb for real.

2. The neighbourhood album doesn't transfer into the hood.  Maxis bug.  People have to transfer the pics and edit the album by hand. I wrote about it for Sedona - it's on the web and in the readme.

3.  I'd be happy to be of practical help if you are making a sub-hood.  I'm working with LeChapeau from TSR on a downtown.  Actually she's working and I'm consulting at the moment as I'm getting to grips with Seasons. :-[  She sent me some files early on and we worked on them in parallel just to get the mechanisms sorted for her.  I'm going to build some things when I sort my Seasons out.  (I have 2 hoods I can't get into and 5 unachieveable LTWs plus a hack conflict)

Hope that helps...........

A while back I posted a hack (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,6872.0.html) that gets rid of the obstructing button and lets you choose one of your new templates directly.  It only addresses business districts though.

Yes Marvin Kosh - I've got it.  It would have been really useful if we could still have more than one custom suburb in our game.  Now it's only useful for people who have OFB as their highest EP and we have a workaround. I'd rather not offer people a hack in a download unless it's really essential.  Thanks for doing it though.

I have noBluewaterButton too, and am eternally grateful for it.

Cwykes - thanks for the instant tute there *saved*. I haven't yet deleted any Sims (Pescado style or otherwise) but I have his instructions stored away somewhere. Other than that the 'skill' set required is basically the same ones I'm using to build N001's. Thankyou.

You're welcome!  :) 

other musings:
4. uni dorms clearly had to start out as residential and so did the Greek house which I didn't mention.  Not sure about the ss lot.  I think it probably started as a community lot as no-body lives there and sims visit it. I think it's important to get that right first time - I read that changelotzoning isn't totally safe.  DK if you can place all the uni items in the lots in your hood before you turn them into dorms/greek/SS etc.  I think so, but that needs testing too.  You probably need a buyable reward object hack that works on community lots to make a good SS lot.
5. DK if you need to create SS members or if the game will generate those.

Secret Society members are generated as needed, hacks from here to limit whatever characters you can are best at least for the making if Uni's (I don't really need to mention that here do I, but just in case anyone else needs to know!) and I keep them in my own game anyway but downloaders may not have them. I just advise using them as I try to be fussy about which characters get into my game!

If you're making an SS building I'd maybe put a sim about to be turned into a dormie and use the unlock all rewards cheat while they were there then set them as a townie and continue building. Mine was as if it was a rented building and not a community lot, then I did use changelotzoning to make it into my Secret Society.
This was before Pets and Seasons though..what's wrong with that cheat now and what messes up?

And cwykes for our downtown thing, if you put the Maxis Downtown or Bluewater as the first neighborhood you're not able to place it again are you? I'll can check again to be sure but I didn't think you could. I think it's as you've already chosen the default hood, whether it's the Maxis original or one of our own, then the game lets all others be a custom hood and doesn't see ours as custom anymore because we made it a default.
I did try to put the Maxis downtown in after my default testing hood and it wouldn't let me but I thought that was normal...or have I misunderstood what you're trying to do! :-\

If I can gather the problem you're having, unless you want to email me about it, I could try to replicate it and see if that helps...you know where I am if you want me to try anyway. :)

Seasons doesn't let you add to the number of pre-made OFB suburbs attached to a hood.  In my game, only adding SAC4 terrains was possible if the hood already had either or both Bluewater and/or Sedona.   I assume it's the same for Downtowns in NL.  Can you still add the 3 pre-made maxis Uni's to one 'hood?  It never was a good idea, but people did it.

NB Seasons added alternate SC4s files for existing 'hoods and maps - winter in Pleasantview for example.

My two hoods with no B001 load as of last night. :D  I re-installed Seasons yesterday and put the hoods back a few at a time deleting the NeighborhoodManager.package every time.  I reckon forcing that to recount the 'hoods and sub-hoods was what fixed it.  I've done a bug report on the unacheivable LTWs and can live with non-existant turn-ons as well as slowdance.  Non-working hacks were my fault - rtfm! I'm having a little problem with awnings and my favorite house crashes, but things are much better!   root canal today! :(

I'm confused about all the other stuff.  I mean, I was able to add Strangetown and Veronaville as sub-hoods by following SaraMK's tutorial thingie.  So, I'm guessing you must be talking about something else.

Also, I was able to add all 3 pre-made Maxis EA Unis to my bloated Pleasantview (it has a Downtown, Bluewater Village, in addition to Strangetown and Veronaville [as business district type sub-hoods]).  Yeah.  I'm retarded like that, but when I first got Uni, I stupidly added all 3 Unis, as I wanted it to appear as if my sims had choices of actual colleges.  When I found out that was a VBT to do, I rebooted my hood and only added Sim State.  After reading through SaraMK's threads, along with having antiredundancy, and using her Clean Uni templates, I added La Fiesta Tech and Académie Le Tour.  I verified that the only additional sims that were added to my game were the ones I expected (the Maxis EA playables from those Unis).



Oh, oh, oh!  You meant that slowdance fix.  I got yer pm the other day, and I was a tad confused about it. ???  Hehe.  I totally forgot about that.  I think Pescado rolled that into his wfsanity hack, no?

Anyways, glad I could help!  Hope you have a speedy recovery after the root canal thing! :-*


Ste

Thanks Syberspunk - I've pm'd back about most of your post. :)

As I remember Sara's tutorial is very specifically about combining the 3 existing hoods and cleaning out defaults.  It works, but we're talking here about a general method of creating custom hoods that can be downloaded and installed without following tutorials.  We want them to exist in your game the way the defaults do so you always have a choice of downtowns like you always have a choice of unis.  You could do that before Pets. Now the game only sees the numbers used for the maxis sub-hoods, so you have to swap folders around and you have no choices.

I'm really keen on a mix and match to 'hood and sub-hood creation.  It makes for smaller specialised projects for creators and allows downloaders freedom to pick and mix according to their immediate wishes and EPs.  Take all the Brixham Uni lots on MTS2 - we could have a Brixham Uni sub-hood with dormies created by a designer rather than randomly generated.  You could have Sedona if you wanted desert and aliens and Lechapeau and I are working on a downtown project.

Adding 3 dedault maxis uni's to your hood is a VBT because of all the dormies, professors etc.  Best I know, it's not "a bad thing" apart from that.  With only OFB in my game, several small, clean, user-made shopping suburbs in one hood is no problem.

Ahh... I see what you mean now.  Yeah.  It would've been wonderful in Maxis had the foresight and consideration to think of ways to add new and/or custom sub hood types in a user friendly way.  :P



Previously, it probably was a VBT.  Now... it isn't all that bad.  Not Very at least.  I was able to do it with Sara's clean templates, together with antiredundancy, and I did not have any major issues.  I was very meticulous about keeping track of the number of new character files that were generated when adding another Uni.  The game did not create another set of professors.  As far as I can tell, my game only has the same default 24 profs.  It also did not generate any new dormies.  The only time the game ever generates new dormies is if it can't find a "homeless" dormie to fill an unoccupied dorm room.  So, this would only ever happen if you went into a new dorm lot And all the current existing dormies in your 'hood are currently linked to a dorm door on the other dorm lots.  The nodormiegen hack would also help out if you want to be certain that no new dormies are generated.


Ste

I think that in pressing their ready-made templates on us they were rather hoping we would just shrug and never consider the possibility of creating an alternative.  Adding another layer of customisation makes life more difficult for them :P

You can revert the behaviour of the interface to how it worked before Pets, but first you need to find the relevant bit of it in the Seasons ui.package file.  When you've modded it you can put it in Downloads like any other hack.

Unfortunately as I recall there's no way to search the XML (yes, the entire UI is defined in XML) within SimPE.  You have to extract the whole shebang to disk and wade through it.  It took a while just to find the part which pops up the Bluewater button and change it back.

I've managed to make a working template just fine from an existing hood.  Sedona is the proof.   I'm working on an alternative Downtown with Lechapeau and that method is still working for us in Seasons - we checked before we started the project.

My "how to" stuff is mostly posted further up this thread.  The only thing you need to fix for the change is the hood type on the ID number tab in SimPE.  Otherwise it's just re-numbering files and cleaning up the hood character files. Unless someone figures out how to unfix the counter and let higher EPs see U004, D002, B002 etc in the default folder, you have to substitute yours for one of the exisitng ones. 

Using deletall characters isn't a good way to get rid of sims.  Preventing them being created by in the first place is better.  Other than that you should follow Pescado's tutorial and use the lotdebugger options.

The game has no problem detecting a fourth or fifth university that has been added to the templates.  I'm surmising that the interface there was always intended to have more than one choice, so there isn't any upper limit.  The only reason why you don't usually see any more choices than the default one for shopping districts and downtowns is because there aren't any additional templates available.  Even with a huge button in the way you can quite easily see an additional template listed if it has been installed properly, ya just can't click on it.

I'm really surprised to hear that you can still see extra uni's.   Is Seasons your highest EP?

I could see Bluewater, Aridia and Sedona with OFB as my highest EP (Aridia was the place holder so you could click on Sedona despite that stonking great Bluewater button).  When Pets came out, lots of people told me the counter was broken and their game couldn't see Aridia and Sedona any more.  What was worse, the game added sims from Sedona into Bluewater and the result was a mess. That's why I now tell people to swap the two.  We tried a test Uni and downtown with OFB and Pets; they were visible with OFB, but not Pets.  I have Seasons now and can say from personal experience that the game can only see Bluewater and not Aridia, Sedona, however it still adds files from Sedona into Bluewater when you install Bluewater into your game.

If anyone can figure out what's going on here, please tell me!  I'd be very happy to make a new version of Sedona. 

Bon Voyage is my highest EP, although I would say I don't rate it as highly as Seasons.  If I take out the Bluewater button fix I can only see Bluewater in the list of business districts, I have no problems with my university templates though.  Bear in mind, these universities are basically just depopulated versions of the existing Sim State University and La Fiesta Tech.

I don't know why Bluewater would install characters from a different business district.  If this is happening somehow it should be okay to remove the template before starting the game and adding a district, and replace it after exiting the game.  The templates are after all only assets to be copied into play, and their absence won't be earth-shattering.  I also sucessfully removed the Bluewater template without adverse effects, but without an interface fix it will still show up as installable (and probably crash) unless it's already added to a hood.  With the interface fix, the only other business district I have (Sedona) goes to the top of the list when Bluewater is absent.

I'll try and figure out how to do a Downtown button remover (to revert the interface to how it was before) but it could take some time.

Edit: Apparently, some time is about twenty five minutes to actually find and edit the interface, and about double that much time to test, screeny, and document.  Downtown button fix here (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,9803.0.html).

Sounds like the problem is to do with the way I made Sedona then not the counter itself.  Sedona works as B003 with OFB, but doesn't work as B003 with Pets or above.  It works fine as B001 with all EPs.  ??? ???

I don't know a whole lot about how the game's user interface works, but I'm guessing that in Pets and above something was 'fixed' so that when there is a button control displayed in the listbox the text listing is suppressed or hidden.  When the button isn't present (either because it's been taken out by the hack, or by the game itself when the supplied Downtown or Bluewater has been installed) the text listing is not suppressed or hidden.

As far as I can tell there's nothing wrong with Sedona, just the in-game interface for installing any template other than Bluewater.

The 'original' Sedona has never stopped working in my game. I installed it at the same time (or maybe just before) I put in no Bluewater Button and I've never had a problem finding it. Maybe you just need to specify the use of Marvin's no Button mods to anyone who wants to use alternative shopping (etc) templates.

Well that's a huge, great DUH!  :-[   My tester back when Pets came out was fairly awesome, so I believed it when they told me "Pets broke the counter".  I was a bit reluctant to go the hack route as it would put off friends on other boards who are part of the "I don't play with hacks" brigade and because I thought the hack was probably going to need updating every time a new EP came out which people who don't normally use hacks never think to do.  Thinking about it, I guess it probably won't need updating as there's no reasong to update that bit of code in higher EPs.  Any comment?

Swapping Bluewater with Sedona is always going to work, but it's a pain - I should probably make a B002 version of Sedona and specify that it only works with Marvin's hack.

I'm working on another downtown with Lechapeau - Your new hack will let us to number that D002.  (edited for stupidity)

Like I said, the user interface changed somewhat with Pets but I'm assuming that it hasn't been altered by Seasons or BV.  These hacks should in theory be EP-proof and not need updating, although if I can figure out how to make the list start at the top instead of in the middle that would be an added bonus.

The initial problem with creating UI overrides was actually figuring out which UI script to change.  There's a lot to search but not much in the way of comments (like 'This is the UI Script which pops up the interface which lets you create a new Subhood') to help locate them.  Now that I know the instance number and the internal reference of the button image, I could re-create them from scratch if I had to.

One thing I am not entirely clear on from reading this thread is what to do as I have a completely new .SC4  I want to use as a downtown template.  Do I have start my new hood, add the standard Downtown, and then make a second downtown from my new terrain?  That will then result in a load of maxis lots cluttering up the lots folder.   As far as I can tell I am unable to add a custom downtown before adding the standard one.

I don't quite understand what you mean, please forgive ....

If you're just going to use an empty Sc4 terrain as a Downtown, why bother to turn it into a default 'hood?  Surely, you can just click to add a custom downtown instead of 'Downtown' and choose that SC4 terrain.  If you've got 'notownieregen' hacks and the empty Downtown template from the Peasantry thread on 'clean templates', you won't get any maxis stuff dumped into your game. 

If you're planning on turning that Sc4 terrain into an occupied downtown with your own townies and lots, then it's worth making a template out of it.  The key point is to start from a normal neighbourhood, then clean it up in SimPE, add your own sims and lots, do a second clean up to eliminate the grim reaper etc, re-categorise it as a downtown and then try it out.    Once you've made it, your alternative default Downtown sits in your neighborhoodtemplate folder alongside the maxis Downtown template, so you'lll have D001 and D002 in the same way as you have U001, U002 and U003. You need Marvin's hacks to get those large Maxis buttons that stop you selecting your alternative hood.  Once you have that hack, you can see all the defaults instead of just that big button.

You can open up the maxis template in simPe if you want to look at the files.  Or try my Sedona as that's the only non-maxis defaI'm sorry, but my pages are out of date.  I'm working on an update at the moment.
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/cwykes/Sedona/sedonapage.html
 

According to Marvin's instructions here: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,3996.msg113629.html#msg113629 it seems to be saying if you want it to be a uni, for example, you have to build it as a uni in the first place - as a subhood to the one you are using as your "workshop".  Am I not reading that right?

Yes I want it as a template as it is going to be full of lots that I want to save with the template to use more than once and maybe share (if it turns out any good).

Sorry for the double post but if I edit the previous post a day later no one will read the change!


So you're recommending I start making my custom downtown as the *base* suburb of a new hood, and recategorise it as downtown when I have finished?  How is that done?  Is that simply a case of renaming the files with the right prefixes and placing in the right templates folder?

Making it as a main hood and converting it in SimPE is the way I made Sedona.  No-one has managed to convert a sub-hood into a default that I know of.  My guess is that a sub-hood just isn't complete enough to become a template.  Well either that or sub-hood data is differently organised in some key way. You're more likely than me to figure out what's missing or different.  :)

Motoki helped me test out making a uni in the days when I didn't have uni.  We didn't work the thing up properly, but just tested that it was feasible.  I made a Uni, like I made Sedona and Motoki said it showed up in his game with dorms and an SS lot - he didn't find anything bizarre, but it wasn't a long test!  I don't remember all the details, but I know I made normal residential lots and converted them to dorms in SimPE.  I think the SS lot was converted from a community lot.  I made townies using your shrub and converted them to dormies in SimPE - I think I started with adults rather than teens, but honestly I can't be sure - it was a long time ago.  I mean to make one sometime, but I'm happy doing other things for now.

One important thing I should post here is that a uni made in a BV game cannot be used by anyone who doesn't have BV and higher.   If you want a Uni that anyone with Uni can install, you have to make it in a Uni only game - no higher EPs.  You can use Numenor's base game starter or any game starter to do that.  This is partly why Lechapeau and I stalled on our Downtown - we wanted to make one that anyone with NL could use and we couldn't use the lots I'd made in Seasons (obvious really), but next we hit practical problems installing lots into BGS games.  Numenor has now added extra functionality to get round CI's wayward behaviour, but we haven't moved on with the project.  It's not abandoned; just stalled.

I see.  So I really need to ignore the part of Marvin's tutorial where he shows the files being selected as being the subhood files?  I didn't think it looked possible personally, for the reasons I gave, but I suppose it must have worked for him at some time!

I was never sure that he actually did get it to work from a sub-hood.  The original posts were along the lines of "I'm trying to do this..." and even when he did the post with all the screenies, it still seemed to me to be "I think you do it like this....".  The only way I got it to work was from a main 'hood template.

I found a few notes on the uni I made for that feasibility test confirming what I said before.  Apparently I converted teens and adults to YAs in simPE and didn't get any feedback on which was right.  Please post if you work it out.  :)

cwykes, if you want to make our hood a NL/Seasons hood that's fine with me whenever you're ready, especially as your planned story needed that pack. :)

I've edited the rest out, I thought I'd found a problem in making sub hoods with later EP's but after looking into it I've found that's not the case.

I had a few teething problems with trying to create a template at first, that was all.  Given that I was working without any kind of guide to help me, it was inevitable that it didn't work first time around.

There's really no difference if you create a template from a main hood or from a sub-hood, either approach is fine as long as the lot zoning is correct for the purpose you're intending.  The sub-hood approach is quicker though if you're merely intending to edit one of the Maxis-supplied universities to make a new template, which is what I did.  The main hood approach has the advantage that less file renaming is needed.

So your own extra templates are edited versions of the maxis ones?  Could you tell us a bit more about what you can and can't do if you do it that way? I mean, you can't just substitute character and lot files from another hood because it's all got to be connected correctly in the neighborhoodmanager.package file and you have to be careful editing that to avoid potential BFBVFS.  Can you set up family relationships, make townies & special NPCs etc or did you have to settle for a 'lot-only' template on a new map and let the game generate characters?

This is how it works for converting a normal hood to a template sub-hood:-
1. Make a normal hood, set up all the lots, playables, townies, family trees, relationships, memories etc just the way you want them.  Making special characters like profs is untested, prob has to be done in game not with simPE.
2. Edit the character files, relationships and 'hood memory in SimPE to clean out all refs to the grim reaper et al   
3. Convert existing lots to special lots by changing lot types in SimPE  (dorms should be made as residential and SS as community - DK about greek houses)
4. Change the hood type to the required sub-hood type in SimPE.
5. Rename the hood folder and give the files the right prefix.

We'd still have teething troubles on this making a Uni as I haven't tested out the special uni features

I put up a new version of Sedona using your hack to get rid of the button.  I put the hack file in the download to make life easier for downloaders.  If that's not a good idea, let me know please!

If it makes life easier for downloaders, I can't say I mind.

I went for a lot-only approach originally because I just wanted a blank template to use with an existing hood.  Including characters isn't a problem, I don't think, because The Sims 2 already brings in characters when you install one of the supplied downtown, university or shopping district templates.  It's not so much substituting character and lot files from another hood, as it is importing additional content - except that instead of plunking down one lot at a time it does everything in one go.  If you think about it, the Sims 2 team have to do much the same thing as we're doing in order to put their templates on an expansion disc.

When I've got some time to fire up The Sims I'll try and do a bit more practical testing along these lines.

Thanks for confirming that your templates are lot only.   

I don't think you're going to be able to add sims without making the hood in game the way I made Sedona.  Any kind of substitution of character files into an existing template folder isn't going to create the right info about their relationships etc in the template neighbourhood.package file.  My best guess is that Eaxis do make a normal hood, the way I did, but have an better process for turning it into a template. 

The neighbourhood.package file stores Sim data, as well as information on the lots in the main hood, and the university package file contains only the information on the university lots.  A lot-only template doesn't need the Sim data or the information on an empty main hood, I would guess.

I got around to doing the testing I said I would do.  Turning an inhabited university into a template and then adding the university  template to another new neighbourhood worked just great, except that I ended up with the wrong terrain and had to re-plop all the buildings.  When I loaded up the one inhabited dorm it was almost the same as when I'd saved it - the cafeteria worker wasn't there, and shortly after a different cafeteria worker showed up.  I was actually expecting it to explode on loading or something.

I created a blank base neighbourhood and added a new custom university with five lots total.  I added four students to the university, moved them into a dorm, and after letting them putz about under Free Will for a while, I assigned them a room each and saved the lot.  Then I exited TS2, copied the whole neighbourhood to the Uni templates folder, and opened it in SimPE for editing.  I exported the university data and then imported it into the main neighbourhood file.  Which is okay, since there aren't any lots in the base neighbourhood and there isn't any Sim data in the unversity file.  Obviously, the terrain information from the university either didn't take or I screwed that up somehow.

After a bit more work in SimPE I was able to fix the terrain on the template so that everything showed up properly when using it to create a new university.  Hooray! :)

Brilliant stuff!  So you can do it either way.  Your method probably needs greater tech skills - I've never exported/imported stuff in SimPE.  On the other hand you can get all the dorms, greek houses etc set up with no problem which is a big advantage. You'd want to clean out the grim reaper et al either way.  I do feel more comfortable with my method because all the data stays connected in the original way - you don't have to move data around. 

If you made the terrain the same in the main hood as the uni, would that help?

The export-import bit really isn't exactly difficult.  What I learned from messing up the terrain is to use the Replace function from the context menu so that I'm definitely overwriting what was there originally.  But I suppose using the same terrain tempate would work just as well.  Now that I have the means to create a populated college I'm looking forward to making a much more involved and complete template.

When it's done, do think about putting it up for download.  It would be nice to have another Uni out there to use. I was hoping Sedona would prove the concept and lead to more template hoods being built.... hasn't happened though.