More Awesome Than You!

Squinge just posted a new hack over at insimenator.net that lets your sims breast feed!  Says he found the code already in the game by accident, and just enabled it through the baby's menu.

It's in the adult section there, so you'll need access to that area to get to it. Otherwise, I'd just post a link...

there is something weird about this society that we feel compelled to put a breast feeding hack in the adult section.

can't actually see any breastfeeding going on in the screenshots as the pie menu is conveniently stuck over the top of the sim allegedly doing the breastfeeding, though a couple of people have commented on animations
so i am off to install this and have a look for myself before i get too happy about it

Yea, don't get me started on the puritan attitudes making a resurgence in the US...  >:(

This is so exciting! I can't believe it's in the adult section, though. It's depressing to think that people think that babies - Sim or otherwise - should be fed from bottles. Breasts aren't just fatty radio dials waiting to be tuned in, damn it.

i downloaded this yesterday (while i was trying to figure out something ELSE. i'm easily distracted-ahem!) but never played a lot that had babies/toddlers. Nevertheless-it was a hoot that whenever you click on a sim with the intent of a social interaction with another adult (or ANYthing really) you get the "breast feed baby" option. Made me snicker since it DOES apply to a lot of adults i know  ::)

update: i finally got around to playing again tonight and the option to "breastfeed baby" only came up on HUNGRY babies this time-not with every click like it did at first.  i didn't try it with the baby controller, so i don't know what happens with that. otherwise-haven't had any wierd stuff happen.  Works like a charm so far.  Thought you guys who were hesitant to try it because of the "annoyance" factor would like to know the "every click" option must've been a fluke

Squinge said "I figured if I posted this anywhere else someone may complain about a kid downloading it so that's why i'm posting it here.".

I would have gone ahead and posted it in the regular forum and see if anyone would dare object.

Shezoe-  Really...that makes it much less interesting.  That's going to get on my nerves pretty quick

It's in the adult section for the same reason the Sims don't pull their pants down when they pee even though there is a censor.  Naughty bits are naughty bits, says the ESRB and angry Christian soccer moms of America, no matter whose food supplier they may be.

I'm glad Maxis didn't release it.  If it's Maxis, it's glitchy and the last thing I would want is a glitch where the mother gets stuck in the action and she spends the rest of the day with a baby attached to her tit.  :o

Couldn't you disable that, limiting it only to babies (toddlers) ?
Seems to me something like that should only show up if you click on a young 'un. Well, that's how I'd want it to work anyway.

Not that I know how to do anything like that, but I'm sure a lot of people here could figure it out easily...

Hell, I get that now! (Sorry the pic is so big, but I'm at work and I can't adjust it here)

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d108/BlueSoupForYou/Sims%202/Weirdness.jpg)

Haha, I knew it would happen!

I think it's sad it has to be in the Adult section... don't get me started. I find it very interesting that it was already hidden in the game. I'm definitely going to check it out.

Damnit, why must I be 17? *sobs*

But yes, seems very interesting. Not sure why Maxis didn't include it, they probably could've just blurred the action and not had the mother lift up her top, basically doing the same thing they do when they go to the toilet, blur out the 'naughty bits', and maybe not even have use dte 'breast' word, but just the options 'feed baby' ''bottlefeed baby', I mean really, if sims can 'WooHoo' in in public places, surely breatfeeding would be allowed?...

Now all we need is for someone to let Jack Thompson know and there'll be tears before bedtime! You mark my words!  :P

What are they thinking about actually feeding thier children with what is meant to used for such a purpose.

Even though no clothing is removed, its minds like those above that have it placed in an adult section so the grownups can utilize it if they so choose.

Breast is Best <== I own a t-shirt that says that.

It's such a shame the way people look at it in the U.S.  I was breastfed until I was 2!  Poor Mom.  :-[  But I'm big and strong like a Mongolian with a super immune system.  Also kids who are breastfed longer have higher IQs.  ;)

*sigh*

Edited out because I have no desire to get into a big thing about it.

Whatever. 

A couple years back, I was at a baseball game and saw some woman breastfeedin' her baby while trying to conceal it subtly with her jacket. That was really disturbing to see, especially given the amount of people there.  :o

this should make the Ethiopian challenge easier on the babies!

It's so much more sensible to instead feed our babies the powdered and then reconstituted bodily fluids of another species! Who cares about silly things like IQ, adult obesity, leukemia, diabetes or heart disease.

Gethane <----- nursed 5 kids. Yes, even in public.

I'm thrilled about the mod. Oops, gotta go, baby needs to eat. Out of breasts. From me. Ewww!

 SOME...only some! I breastfed both my kids and it was never a big deal for me or for anybody around me that I know of. Although manually pumping my breast in the bathroom stalls at work probably earned a few curious remarks,  :o
 Of course there is discreet and using the proper items of clothing to aid in breastfeeding and then there are some women I've seen who practically strip off their shirt and bra to breastfeed. Tacky, ewww.
And Blue does your sim have a third breast under her arm that the baby is going for?  ;) Great pic.

 It's definitely disturbing to think a parent has to hide to feed her child, isn't it? :)

FYI, I kept getting errors while trying this mod until I turned off JMP's eye in the sky baby minder then it worked ok.

I think it's disturbing to criminalize women feeding their babies the optimum food for humans and encouraging feeding a vastly inferior substance to avoid offending.  And that's all I'm saying.

C

Heh, I saw this mod yesterday and was greatly amused that he also incorporated men breastfeeding...
That ought to be fun to see... ::)

I will never understand why people act like that either. A mother should be able to care for her child in the manner she believes to be best. When I see people make some big disgusting deal out of it I have to wonder what's wrong with them. Baby's eating, so what? Why do you (the person with the problem) have to turn it into something dirty? And I'm not against bottle feeding, I'm more pro-"mom should do what is best for her situation and all other's should keep their noses out." :)

I don't see a problem as long as a blanket or such is used or the mother does it in a private place. My mother always went to the car or draped a blanket over my sister to be polite when in public. She really didn't want to just whip a tit out and force others to watch, that's incredibly rude. It's like taking a piss in public, masturbating in public or having sex in public. Sure, they're all natural and normal but not everyone wants to see it while they're eating or on an outing. Same with changing a diaper. That's why we need nice places for mothers to go to tend to these things if they absolutely have to be in public with baby at feeding time, like a lounge.

That said, I never understood why Maxis didn't have breastfeeding in game. It's a mother/child bonding thing but I suppose the media would turn it into OMG PORN! even though adult female sims don't even have nipples.

Exsqueeze me?  If it is like taking a piss, masturbating or having sex then it is like porn.  Except it's not any of those things.  Not at all.  Breastfeeding is NOT sexual and it is NOT the elimination of body wastes that are a health hazard.  This is an ignorant and incorrect view.  It is nice to be discreet, but it is certainly NOT rude to nurse your baby without covering yourself head to toe.  In the victorian era when women couldn't even show an ankle, they would open their dress and breastfeed in CHURCH sometimes covering their exposed entire breast with a hankie if they had one available. 

C.
Guess I had more to say

Sims have breasts?

And you said it perfectly. *stands and applauds faemidwife*

faemidwife, I hope my earlier smartass comment wasn't taken the wrong way - I was definitely being sarcastic toward the other poster and I wanted to let you know that I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm the biggest childless boob nazi I know. :)

I breastfed all my kids, and while I tried my best to remain decently covered in public, I can assure you that the one thing that upsets Joe Public more than seeing a breastfeeding mum is listening to a baby screaming with hunger.  Fortunately by the time the last one came along many places had 'family rooms' - lounges for feeding and changing.  It made a huge difference!

ah! good to know! i use the baby controller too, but have yet to play a lot with babies since downloading this hack. Thanks for the warning!

Absolutely not. You are fine. I knew what you were saying.  I wasn't gonna reply to this thread because I know this is a hot button issue for me, but I just hate it when people compare breastfeeding to sex or eliminating waste.

C

 This mod works well so far.    It's interesting, you can see the animations Mom goes through to find the nipple for the baby, but no clothing is removed.    When the baby is finished feeding Mom sort of rocks side
to side while she is holding the little one.  Another bonus is there are no bottles to discard.

edit

  quote
whenever you click on a sim with the intent of a social interaction with another adult (or ANYthing really) you get the "breast feed baby" option. Made me snicker since it DOES apply to a lot of adults i know 

Squinge has updated this pie menu now to not show up unless you click on a baby.

You know, I honestly cannot understand why a woman using her breasts as nature intended perfected through millenia of evolution (or god, whatever you want to believe) is controversial. It was the only way to feed a baby until the last century.  I honestly don't even understand why some people are "against" it. And not in public? Women show more in bikinis on the beach than most women show while breastfeeding, though sometimes the baby isn't terribly cooperative about being discrete. I see more breast tissue on billboards, on tv. Humans are mammals. The very definition of what makes us different than other creatures on this planet is the female of the species provides milk to the young.

I wish those of you that are disturbed by breastfeeding would take 5 minutes of your life and educate yourself about it. Don't want to seem like one of those screaming ninnies on the bbs? Well act like you care about REAL information, about everything, not just the sims.

I don't see a controversy either. Stop trying to make one. End of story.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program:
This is definitely interesting, but has the minor drawback that Squinge has overridden the global pie menu. Kind of a no-no. Maybe I should make a more awesome version.

A more awesome version would be lovely Pescado. Thank you. ;D

 Oh yes please.    A more Awsome version would be appreciated.

i'm sure i posted around midday (UK time) about what this mod actually looks like in the game but i can't see it  ???

anyway, the breastfeeding sim waves their left arm about a bit in a vague unbuttoning of the clothing way, the baby stays static and then the reverse buttoning up of clothing. no breasts are seen

so nothing controversial at all, whatever your views are about BF in RL
but it's a start for of us who wish to see it in our game

Pescado, I would LOVE to have an awesome version of this mod, and NOT one I have to go behind closed doors to retrieve! LOL

I remember way back in the early chats about TS2, it was said breast feeding was to be an option.  I was very disappointed when the game came out with only bottles.

Here's another vote for an awesome-ized version. I was about to download it but I hesitated - not about the breastfeeding part (AT ALL), but about the integrity of the hack... I'd download an awesome-ized version in a hot second.

Here here. Another vote mostly because I like to keep all of my installed hacks from the same site so I don't have to scrub the web to find updates, and let's not forget the awesomeness of it all, of course. :P

That was the main thing that gave me pause about it. I know IRL it's technically possible, but... no. Just... no.


Another vote here for an Awesomized version.

It is? How? I thought the expression "Tits on a bull" was the epitomy of nonfunctionality.

This is very interesting.  I guess maxis is reading those modding request forums after all, but didn't have the guts to implement this one fully.  I was shocked one day to recieve a PM requesting this one time on MTS2(I have no idea why I would be the one to make new animations, especially for something like this :o )

As Pescado mentioned, overwriting the global pie menu is definetly not something you would want to have though.  I suppose that Squinge probably could have posted this in the non-adult forums had he not enabled it for males  and added a censor grid(or is that just the screenshots of his game with censorship disabled?) or something.

ROFL that reminds me of some jokes that I've heard :D

Hormones. Males actually do have mammary glands, but generally they don't produce the right hormones to make them function. Usually the hormonal stimulation is from an outside source, like medications and possibly diet. Googling "male lactation" gives a surprising number of links; here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_lactation) article.

Thank you Renatus for inadvertedly reminding me I've got work to do, heh! Genes to clone, bacteria to feed, etc etc...
And welcome aboard atavera!

J.M., get yer skates on and do this!

Breast v bottle? No contest as breast is best, and screw mammary fixation as they have a SECONDARY sexual function. Visual stimuli for all those blokes out there to remind them human females are in season ALL the goddamn time. Get over it...  ;)

Hey DrBeast, good to see ya again too.

If an Awesome version appears (please please) let it be for birth mothers only. I desire realistic levels of realism.

Agreed!  I would love a version that's enabled for females only, unlike Squinge's.  I have no aliens in my game and don't particularly want to see fathers attempting to breastfeed. 

Karen

I don't particularly want to see a man breastfeeding either though it would be kinda funny.. in a sick Maxis kinda way  :D Kinda like breastfeeding from the cowplant.. could you imagine that?

On another note.. please back away from the very educated on the subject childfree woman who was just expressing an opinion. I don't want a controversy, thanks.

update: i finally got around to playing again tonight and the option to "breastfeed baby" only came up on HUNGRY babies this time-not with every click like it did at first.  i didn't try it with the baby controller, so i don't know what happens with that. otherwise-haven't had any wierd stuff happen.  Works like a charm so far.  Thought you guys who were hesitant to try it because of the "annoyance" factor would like to know the "every click" option must've been a fluke

So alien babies are denied the right to breastfeed?  For shame!

I say, anyone who gets pregnant should have the chance to breastfeed.

I would agree with this if there was a way for this hack to allow only the father of the alien baby to breastfeed, and not just any random male adult who happens to be holding the baby.

Karen

On the subject of who should be allowed to breastfeed (in the game), I feel compelled to point out that in real life, breastfeeding advocates say that it is possible that a woman who adopts a child and was not pregnant herself can breastfeed.  I don't know where they stand on men who got pregnant by aliens, I've never asked.   ::)

I phoned George Clinton and he confirms that aliens can only breastfeed on the mothership.

Welcome to station WEFUNK, better known as We-Funk,
Or deeper still, the Mothership Connection.
Home of the extraterrestrial brothers,
Dealers of funky music.
P.Funk, uncut funk, The Bomb.

Yeah but what's his stand on Sir Nose D'void of Funk breastfeeding?

I have wanted this for ages so I can only reiterate the request for an awesome version.  I will probably try out Squinge's in the meantime.  Does it only work on babies?  It should also work on toddlers.  I breastfed all five of my kids, the longest being my youngest daughter who very reluctantly gave up at the age of 3 1/2 (it was all habit then, she wasn't really using it for nutrition, and it was sorta getting embarrassing in various ways!).  All my kids have had very few colds and similar viruses, especially my youngest daughter.  I can't remember the last time she had a cold, but it certainly wasn't in the last few years.  Yet again I will say - HEALTH EXPANSION.  They could incorporate breastfeeding into this and educate the public.  What a chance they are throwing away.

My daughter wore a onsie at least twice a week that was white with black letters that said "Got Breastmilk"  (I had some old guy in target tell me that it was disgusting, and I shouldn't subject my child to wearing it, but then again, I had someone tell me that the bathrooms in the mall were the appropriate place to nurse a baby)

Anyway...thanks for finding this..I rarely check the downloads at insim, so I wouldn't have found it.

that poor baby, and mom.  the bath and shower are the only times I get away from my kids.

That's offensive? I've seen far worse things on t-shirts than that. I'd have probably looked at it oddly, chuckled and walked away. Mall bathrooms? Icky, that's why my mom went to the car or used a recieving blanket when we were in public, much nicer and comfortable for her and my little sister (made cleaning up any milk-puke easier as well).

As for IQ? My sister is as dumb as a box of bricks, I'm the creative genuis of the family and I was bottlefed. Go figure   :-\

Thus the question exists: Can we plan on a more awesome version?  Or do I go ahead and download Squinge's version if I want my Sims to breastfeed.

As always, your humble servant...

 It's definitely disturbing to think a parent has to hide to feed her child, isn't it? :)
[/quote]

No. It's polite. Quite frankly, it looks gross, and no one should have to see it in public. It really irritates me, anyway. I mean, being discreetly covered is one thing, but some women just let it all hang out... YUCK

Does this mean that next time I see an adult letting all their food hang out of their mouth in a restaurant, I can tell them to put a blanket over their head or take it to the bathroom?  ;D

Also, it's definitely possible for someone - male or female - who has never given birth to lactate. Although I can't imagine a man going through the process of actually attempting to begin lactation after being ass-probed by a rather unattractive alien and being unceremoniously dumped out on the pavement.

An awesome version would definitely be... uh, awesome. The drawbacks for this version for me thus far are a) my baby's feet keep going through the mother's arms, b) she can only nurse when the baby's hungry, and c) she doesn't stop nursing on her own. I'm not sure if that's just my game being wonky or if it's actually a problem.

No. It's polite. Quite frankly, it looks gross, and no one should have to see it in public. It really irritates me, anyway. I mean, being discreetly covered is one thing, but some women just let it all hang out... YUCK
[/quote]

Gross?   ???  Like picking your nose, right?  Gross like that.  Gross like vomiting on your plate.  That's gross.  Gross like a 200 pound woman shoved into 100 pound shorts.  Gross.  Scratching your armpit and smelling your fingers.  Yuck!  Belching at the table or talking with your mouthful.  Yuck!  Just like breastfeeding.  Just like using those lumps on their chest for their intended function and the continued survival of your offspring, just like providing an infant with the perfectly designed food for it.  Gross like that.  Yep. I can see that.  Boobs should TOTALLY be reserved for selling beer and cars and magazines and soap.  Boobs should only be visible in the mall when you are walking past Victoria's Secret or Ambercrobie and Fitch.  No one should EVER have to look at them with a baby's head in the way.  That's just gross.  It's like Visible Panty Lines!!!!!!  So totally offensive!!!!!!!!   :D

C

And you wonder why both VPL and breastfeeding were not enabled in the game by default.

What if someone came on this forum and started talking about how gross being gay was? Would that be acceptable to the cultural mores of this forum? But its somehow acceptable to insult what is obviously a portion of this forum, considering the posts by breastfeeders in this thread, by calling us gross? Feeding our babies is gross? Really? Wow.

Do you go to public swimming pools? Beaches? Watch advertisements on televsion? Look at magazines? Using breasts for titallating men is not gross but using them as intended is?

You really really need to evaluate your feelings on this issue and find out where its coming from. Because seeing this kind of mysogyny and ignorance on this forum is "gross."

While I do agree that mother's shouldn't just "pop one out" in public. That is why there are places provided for breast feeding women. There are pumps and there are secluded areas provided for this type of activity. If all else fails, blankets. I think it is in poor taste for a woman wearing a tube top to just yank it down for her kids. Still, I think that breast feeding is the best bet for kids. I want to breast feed my kids when I have them. (In fact, I am postponing a needed breast reduction because I'm afraid it will impede my ability to do so)

I would also like to throw in my hat for the request for an Awesome version of this hack. Especially one that is baby controller friendly. =)

I've always been puzzled by the debate over public exposure of breasts, breastfeeding or not.

It's socially unacceptable for exposed breasts to be shown on national television, at the beach, or a popular teen rated video game.

Yet.

It's okay to breast feed in the mall food court, sell comic books with artistic depictions of breasts to youth, and hang reproductions of Boticelli's "Primavera" in junior high art classes.

I guess you could argue that the last bits are "nature" and "art" but I'll keep them firmly in the "anatomy" category.

Related to the main topic:

This raises a lot of questions concerning the original intent of the game, and how much was changed to pander to people that find the human body offensive and evil. For the sims to breastfeed, wouldn't they need nipples? Might they have had them originally? If not, but I suppose we can have suspended reality for the game. And then there is the question of the social interaction I miss most from the promo shots: the sim woman flashing her husband. I found that hilarious and would like to have seen it stay in the game.

PS- I'll support public breastfeeding when I can take my top off at the beach!

LOL Thanks JM, for the humor.

Now, all y'all against breastfeeding, just take your Soma and have a holiday.  I'll be out on the Savage Reservation if you need me.

"Lenina was left to face the horrors of Malpais unaided. They came crowding in on her thick and fast. The spectacle of two young women giving breast to their babies made her blush and turn away her face. She had never seen anything so indecent in her life. And what made it worse was that, instead of tactfully ignoring it, Bernard proceeded to make open comments on this revoltingly viviparous scene. Ashamed, now that the effects of the soma had worn off, of the weakness he had displayed that morning in the hotel, he went out of his way to show himself strong and unorthodox.

"What a wonderfully intimate relationship," he said, deliberately outrageous. "And what an intensity of feeling it must generate! I often think one may have missed something in not having had a mother. And perhaps you've missed something in not being a mother, Lenina. Imagine yourself sitting there with a little baby of your own. ..."

"Bernard! How can you?" The passage of an old woman with ophthalmia and a disease of the skin distracted her from her indignation.

"Let's go away," she begged. "I don't like it.""

C

Wait, what's VPL?!

VPL = Visible Panty Lines (debate raging in another thread).

No. Feeding a baby is fine, breastfeeding is fine, breastfeeding in public without at least a blanket or something is RUDE. It has nothing to do with being "mysogynistic" or whatever (wouldn't that make me hate myself?), or supporting offensive ads or all those other things you threw at me that are completely beside the point. Thinking that breastfeeding is important does not excuse the rudeness.

Yeah, breast feeding is important, but mother's that flash their nipples at an entire room to do so, aren't doing it for the benefit of their child, they're doing it because they're into exhibitionism. I know *I* wouldn't be comfortable stripping to feed my baby in public. That's what pumps are for. You pump at home and then you can feed your baby breast milk in public without exposing yourself to the world.

No. It's polite. Quite frankly, it looks gross, and no one should have to see it in public. It really irritates me, anyway. I mean, being discreetly covered is one thing, but some women just let it all hang out... YUCK
[/quote]

Common sense at last. Thank you.

That's your opinion, and it's not shared by everyone.  I see nothing rude about feeding a child in public, in fact I'd far rather sit in a restaurant near a woman breastfeeding a baby than some toddler in a high chair with food smeared all over their face.  THAT is disgusting, and a majority of parents will just let it be that way and not bother to wipe their face, in fact some adults encourage this sort of sloppy child eat because they think it's cute or something.  But a woman with a baby latched onto one nipple and maybe the other nipple (gasp!) exposed too, gosh that's just GROSS.

And as for pumps and feeding breastmilk in bottles, oh if ONLY it was that simple.  Pumps don't necessarily work right, or at all.  You know, maybe it isn't fair to say this, but I think that only women who've had a child and been through the breastmilk vs. formula decision have any right to even HAVE an opinion on this topic.  You just don't know unless you've been there, and I've been on both sides (which my Sims kids will too.  They will be breastfed when it's covenient for mom but when it's not dad and others will  feed them formula from a bottle, and they will still get A+ grades and always age transition platinum and have fabulous lives, just like my son.  So there!)   ;D

Does it gross you out? Make you uncomfortable? Do you find it rude? Do you think the person is inconsiderate to not show any manners or respect for other human beings? Would you be bothered enough to not want to sit next to them or have them near your food?

When I'm in my own house I eat with my fingers, belch and fart all I want and do other natural human body things that others may find gross but to be polite in public, I don't do any of them or if I must, I go somewhere where others don't have to watch  =p

And before it gets said again.. I DO SUPPORT BREASTFEEDING, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH BREASTFEEDING, IF YOU FEEL YOUR CHILD WOULD BENEFIT THEN BREASTFEED..

But for Christ's sake, have consideration for the rest of the world. I have been in places where women just flopped their boobs out in public, once right next to a salad bar where the food could have easily been contaminated by milk or projectile baby milk puke and in full view of about 6 or 7 tables and anyone who went to the salad bar. I've seen women ignore lovely breastfeeding lounges provided just for that function so they can feed right in the middle of the food court or the shoe department like they want people to pay attention to a very private mother/child bonding moment and stroke their egos. My mother is VERY pro-breastfeeding and even she agrees this "anytime, anywhere" stuff is silly. She has told me that it's quite easy to arrange a quick trip out before the baby needs to feed again and she herself worked a four hour shift daily without needing to ever subject her co-workers to seeing her breast feeding or pumping.

Now stop putting down people who are only asking for politeness and get back to the Sims 2, alright? Geez.. no wonder Maxis hid this feature.

I find both gross FYI and would encourage neither  :P

Well saying that someone who doesn't have kids cannot have an opinion in the matter is ridiculous. That's like saying that someone who isn't gay can't support or disagree with their lifestyle. Or saying that if you're not a man, you can't have an opinion about their behavior.

That's just stupid.

Everyone can have an opinion about this, because one way or another, they've been exposed to it. Either they were once breast feed (or not) themselves or they had siblings, cousins, nephews, or the like that were. So, just because I think it's rude to flash your breasts at everyone doens't mean you can discount my opinion because "I've never had a child." You don't know my situation. Did you ever think that maybe, I can't have kids? Or that it will be hard for me to have them? That kinda makes you an ass for saying that my opinion is worthless.

I never thought the people here were this kind of ignorant. I'm childfree, I will never have kids but I have a sister who breastfed. I have read articles on it. I have asked my mother what it was like and I have asked my sister what she remembers out of my own curiousity. Just because I will never experience it firsthand, this makes my opinion worthless? Does this mean the opinions of all those male doctors who say breastfeeding is good are also worthless?  ;)

Breastfeeding isn't like being gay. Being gay is a sexual orientation.. and everyone seems to agree breastfeeding has nothing to do with sex so why compare it to that? Breastfeeding is like pissing, farting, puking, belching, eating, drinking, pooping, sleeping and any other number of natural functions. The ones that involve nakedness or in general looking like an ass aren't seen as "nice" to do in public. Expecting others to look at your naked breasts in public whether it be to tantalize men or feed a child is rather.. tasteless. I don't see why it's "anti-woman" to be polite to others. I wouldn't run around topless in public and if I did have a child (and Hell froze over)? I would not want to be in public doing that! No thanks, that's too much exposure!

>You don't know my situation. Did you ever think that maybe, I can't have kids? Or that it will be hard for me to have them? That >kinda makes you an ass for saying that my opinion is worthless.

Let's see, I said, admitting it might be unfair to say this, that I think people who don't have children shouldn't even have an opinion on this.  You then responded by calling me stupid and an ass.  Let's just let that speak for itself.

And all I was saying is that unless you've had a child and BREASTFED you don't really know how breastfeeding works so there may be a lot of things you're not aware of about those women you THINK are just exhibitionists or whatever.  If you can't have children or are having trouble having them, I'm sorry but that still doesn't change this fact.  And if you think "Oh when I have a child I'll breastfeed but I'll pump and always keep covered up... "  you MIGHT find that things don't go quite like you planned.  It's just one of those things that you don't know about until you get there.  And basically if anybody thinks it's gross to see a woman breastfeeding in public, then THEY can get up and leave, it's their not problem, not the mother's and not the baby's.

And you know I REALLY resent being called stupid and an ass so blatantly.  As you go through this thread it's pretty easy to tell the nice people from the not so nice ones.  Geez even Pescado has been civil!  (And I'm wondering how long it will be until he closes this thread.)

I was actually looking at this the other day and thinking about 'fixing' it myself. But if you're gonna do it, I'm sure it will be better. :P

Somethings of note, I think Squinge's version is a tad buggy. One of the lines in 'Continue Feeding?':


Seems to check if the active sim's hunger is < 90 and then returns true? ??? Don't know why they did that. That means the feeding would presumably continue while the active/breastfeeding sim's hunger is < 90. I would think it would make more sense that breastfeeding should stop if the breastfeeder becomes very hungry. I mean, if your own motives start to drop, you probably want to stop doing whatever it is you're doing so that you can attend to your needs as well.

The line originally was:


which seems to make more sense.

Also. I'd prefer that breastfeeding be limited to female sims, since that seems more realistic to me. And... I was thinking it should also be limited to the actual parent or possibly close relatives of the baby... I was thinking more realistically limited to the mother, whether that be birth mother or adopted mother. I mean, I don't know anyone who was breastfed by random strangers or other relatives, no matter how close your family was. :P


Ste

SPOILERS for any Desperate Housewives fans...

PS. It's kind of interesting... and I don't personally care so much either way, so I kinda just skimmed over the 'debate' about this. But... Desperate Housewives just had an episode about breastfeeding this past Sunday. It was pretty hilarious. The mom in question was still breastfeeding her son, even though he was fairly big, like I think 5ish or 6? I forget exactly. She made an argument about how it's been theorized (sp?) that breastfeeding actually increases IQ or whatever. She pointed out how her son seemed a lot more mature, calm, and well-behaved in comparison to Lynette's rowdy band of miscreants. :D Anyways, Lynette pulled a scheme that worked, and the kid ended up telling the mom that he didn't want to be breastfed anymore. The funny thing was, the mom was more upset because breastfeeding was keeping her in shape and now she'd be forced to join a gym. lol. ;D

Would you still be comfy with a bottle like this:
http://www.babysupermall.com/main/products/adi/adi42443.html?aff=frog (http://www.babysupermall.com/main/products/adi/adi42443.html?aff=frog)

A bottle is only a substitute breast.  Breasts are for feeding babies.  That's just it.  They just are.  Some people think it's gross when a homosexual couple holds hands in public or give each other a little kiss, but don't think it's gross if hetero couples do. And if those people were to make their feelings known, well they would be homophobic ignorant <insert whatever STE would say here>

Gabrielle Palmer, in her book The Politics of Breastfeeding says "There is a fundamental racism in attitudes to public breastfeeding.  Intrusive cameras turn the zoom lens on hungry women, who, during some disaster, are keeping their babies alive with this precious fluid.  As long as she is black and devastated, the audience is happy to watch, but in the filmin of a TV consumer programme on a baby food issue, some of the film had to be reshot because the baby wanted to suckle his well-dressed white mother and the producer considered that this would be too controversial for the viewers." 

You want to see photographic evidence of the difference between breast and bottle, especially where water supply is unsafe, look at this picture:
http://www.whale.to/w/baby_milk2.html (http://www.whale.to/w/baby_milk2.html)

Sure, we have safe water here, for the most part, but did you know formula is recalled often, sometimes for fatal problems?  In 2003 1.5 million cans of formula sold under many different brand labels were recalled for contamination with Enterobacter sakazakii.  Some have been recalled for being contaminated with salmonella (1993), ground glass (1993), or metal shavings (February 2006).  This is in America.  Not the third world.   (93 was a bad year for formula!)

And as for pumps, not everyone can afford a good one, bad ones can damage your breasts, pumping is a learned art, and unless the mother is going to be separated from her baby they are NOT NECESSARY.

Women don't necessarily flash their nipples for exhibitionism (although some maybe do).  They oftentimes do so inadvertantly as they are trying to latch the baby on, or the baby suddenly turns away to look at something.  I truly don't know (and have never seen) any women who remove their shirts, unbutton their shirt from the top, or take both breasts out to feed one baby.  When I nurse my babies in public, no one even knows.  You know why?  I lift my shirt discretely and the baby looks like s/he is sleeping in my arms.  If I threw a blanket over me, not only would I die from heat exhaustion here in Augusta, GA, but EVERYONE would know IMMEDIATELY what I was doing.  It is more discrete to not use a blanket.  Practice in a mirror at home.  And if I saw a woman's nipples while she nursed, well, so be it.


C

I wasn't comparing it to breast feeding. I was comparing that "you don't know what you're talking about" to it. If you're not gay, then by that logic, you should have no opinion about it. Good or bad.

Yeah, well I get kind of steamed at the "if you don't have kids, you don't know what you're talking about" attitude.

Makes it sound like I'm some sort of a second rate woman because I haven't popped a kid out. Which is actually HARD for me to do, what with the chain of cysts circling my ovaries and choking my reproductive system.

So excuse me if I get emotional about it.

I have known several families where one sister nursed the niece or nephew because the mom was sick or unable, or whatever.  I have known sisters who traded off childcare and wet-nursing so they could both work in alternating shifts.  Many traditional cultures around the world share the task of breastfeeding their children in their close knit clans or tribes.  These children are then "milk-siblings" and it is taboo to marry.  And I have heard of lesbian couples also that shared breastfeeding of a child.  I have known women who were friends who took care of another woman's baby, including nursing, when she was in a coma for a week after birth.  So, it's not talked about, because people think it's "gross"  ::)  But it happens.  More than people think.

C

Well... I figured that it does happen. I just never knew of it. But I did say, in the very least, limit it to family or at least close to the family. I suppose friends would be ok, if the sims actually qualified as friends.

Perhaps limiting it to mothers first, and then other family members who have to build up a relationship with the baby first. Like, if they are not a mother, then check if they are friends with the baby or has at least 25+ STR with the baby or something like that. And if the sim is not a family member, then make sure they are friends with the mother of the baby, and then if they are friends with the baby or has at least 25+ STR with the baby.

I think that would be reasonable enough. No? It's not that I necessarily find the topic disturbing or anything. I just think it would be more reaslistic, rather than having the option available to total, random strangers.

As it stands, Squinge's mod makes the option availble to any adult of any sex. I think it also disallows autonomous use of it, so I guess it's not a big deal. But I would like to see it be autonomous in some situations. I kinda like that sims do things on their own since I prefer to play with Free Will on. If a baby is very hungry, and the mom has a very good relationship with it, or if they're a family sim, or if the fridge is relatively far away, then it'd be neat to have mothers (or relatives or close friends) breastfeed the baby. :)

Ste

Come and live in Europe

Yes.


Ouch! My girlfriend and I don't have children yet because I have PCOS, I'll be the birth mother and she's not ready to breed yet - but that doesn't stop me from being pro-boob and protesting against formula. I think anyone who is educated about the facts should have an opinion and be determined to breastfeed before the child comes into the world.

Just wanted to add to the request for an awesome version of this.  Great idea!

Would that be polycystic ovarian syndrome/disease? If so, that's what I have too, and the doctor told me, that I have a silm to low chance of conceiving without medication, and a high chance of miscarriage if I do happen to get pregnant without drugs. My mother had it undiagnosed before me, she had three kids with no problems, but she also had three miscarriages...

First I'd like to say I have NO problem with women breastfeeding in public. My friend did it all the time, I have however seen women take out both breasts to feed one baby (and it tends to make people uncomfortable ) I even saw one woman still uncovered while she changed her kids diaper. whatever floats her boat I guess.  I personally don't think women should have to cover up(and most women i've seen  breastfeed do it in a way that they don't need to yet noone gets an eyefull)but some women do take it a little too far i.e the diaper lady!

anyway i just had to share that.

 i'd just like to add that everyone is entitled to their own opinion if you don't mind breastfeeding in public great if you do that's fine too.   most people can't just flip a switch and suddenly they are fine with everything, and no amount of arguing or educating is going to change their mind.  they are entitled to feel uncomfortable just like others are entitled to whip out a tit in public :P

now i'd like to add my request for an awsome hack please

 ;D

Formula stinks terribly. I don't know how babies take it. I would never put that stuff in my mouth. Ewww.

I've been considering it.

I'm a little tired of America's strange dislike of the human body. I understand people that don't want to see breastfeeding because many, many people have been raised to believe that their bodies are disgusting things that should be covered up. If it's any better at all in Europe, I'd like to know.

Well, if they don't know any better....

And just to clarify I don't think breast feeding in public is GROSS. I just think there is a difference between a woman respectfully feeding her child and one that lets it all hang out.

I like in Oklahoma, I've seen some very gross public displays of breastfeeding. Women with no bras, wearing tube tops WHILE pregnant, that basically just pulled her tit out and let it lay on her stomach while her other baby fed. That's gross. Tube tops in general are gross, but that was especially gross.

Well, I know people are probably tired of me going "This is how it's like in Finland" but hey, this is where I've lived for the past year and where I'll probably live for the rest of my life, so it's what you get -

In Finland, and I am getting the impression in Scandinavia in general, the view of the body is a little more relaxed. It's still not perfect, but I don't feel the obsessively fearful edge about it I felt when I was in the States. One of the first ads that caught my eye was the profile of a nude woman for something rpegnancy related (not sure, I couldn't read Finnish at the time). As far as I can tell it is perfectly normal for women to breastfeed in public, and I have yet to see a single one who was 'letting it all hang out', even though it seemed 75% of the women I saw last year were pregnant and now an equal proprtion are wheeling around infants in prams.  :D They simply do it because that is what one does when one's baby is hungry.

The unfair reality is that if you haven't had a child you have no idea what it's like to be a breastfeeding mom. Just like those who haven't experienced the heartbreak of infertility do not fully comprehend your pain. Wouldn't you be offended if someone judged the decisions you make with your infertility situation? My heart goes out to you guys, I had secondary infertility (I have ovulatory problems that the doctors never found a cause for) and had to take fertility drugs to get pregnant with my second daughter. I had rude, insentitive people tell me, "You already have one child, shouldn't you just be happy with her?" or "Why don't you just adopt?" That hurt, I felt like people who didn't understand my situation were passing judgement on me. They didn't know what it's like to be on that awful emotional roller coaster and I just wanted them to shut their mouths. It became even more uncomfortable when my problem temporarily corrected itself and I surprisingly became pregnant with my third daughter. Then I was on the receiving end of remarks like, "See I told you all you needed to do was just relax." ::)

So I hope you understand I'm not trying to take a pot shot at your painful situation but hoping that you will try to understand how we feel. Being a nursing mom isn't a cakewalk in this country.You haven't yet been in this situation yourself so you don't know what it's like. To be "banished" to another room to feed your child. To try to cover yourself with a blanket when you feed your child in public. To be treated like some second class circus freak for wanting to care for your child as you see best. And believe me, like Faemidwife said people seem to notice when you use the blanket. I'm glad that I had these cool nursing tops, it was rare that anyone noticed my baby was eating. I didn't "flash" or act like some self-centered exhibitionist (I practiced in the mirror too), I just wanted to feed my child in a normal fashion while being able to care for my other kids. I didn't want to have to schedule my daily responsibilities around having to hide in another room while my youngest received nourishment.


It's interesting how it all seems to be a matter of "mental conditioning." My children and many of their agemates couldn't care less. Makes me really wonder about the mindset of some adults when their response is, "Eww, can't she go in another room or something?" when the children who see the same nursing mom don't notice her or even care. I'm not talking just preschoolers and such, I've seen preteens and teens with a, "Who cares, she's feeding her baby" attitude. Maybe hopefully in 10-20 years this will no longer be an issue in this bassakwards country and nursing moms will finally stop being harrassed. But there will probably be no agreement today or in the near future.

You people are worried about bottles and breasts? Your efforts would be better directed towards avoiding television, radio, drugs and debating infant care in gaming forums.

This is the part that gets me about this thread is the general idea that a naked breast is "gross". It's okay for men to show their tits but womens' exposed breasts are "yucky" and comparable to belching, picking noses, and the like. This attitude just makes me feel a little sad but I'm well aware that many people feel this way.

As someone who nursed two children, I made attempts to be discreet but occasionally a little flesh might have shown. Believe me, when nursing a baby, priorities shift quite drastically.

Well, I nursed both of my children, in public, without a blanket, and most of the time, no one even knew what was going on.    It is possible to nurse discreetly, and to be quite honest, throwing a blanket over a kids head just broadcasts to everyone what is happening.

My thought about the whole thing is....do what is best for you and your baby, feed your baby how and where you want to, if someone doesn't want to see it, they don't need to look.  I'm not sure what the controversy or the issue is here.  If people don't want their sims nursing, then don't use the mod.

to whomever said something about pumps...my 5 year old never took a bottle, in the 18 months that she nursed.  She wanted it from the source, or not at all.  My younger daughter didn't care where it came from, as long as she was getting fed.

Give me a break. ::) You would not die from heat exhaustion from using a towel, and no one would care if they knew what you were doing, so long as they don't have to see it. If you can do it discreetly, fine, but flashing everyone is not discreet. I don't understand why people are so adamant about this. Caring about your baby and wanting to breastfeed is one thing, doing it in an inappropriate place or in an inappropriate way is another.

There is a big difference between being discreet and broadcasting. Discreet I have no problem with. It's the tube top mamas I mentioned before that I have issues with. And most of you here and saying that you were intentionally discreet, sooo where is the argument? It's not as though we said ALL public breast feeding is bad, just the ones that are blatantly "I DARE you to say something!"

You know the interesting thing is also that of all the women I have known who have been harrassed by museums, pools, mall security, restaurant staff, etc.  have ALL been covered with a blanket or been very very discrete.  The most recent one was a lady in Michigan who was a QUAKER who went into Victoria's Secret to use their lovely dressing rooms with benches and was told if she was going to nurse her baby, that she would have to leave.  I am not making this up.  Unfortunately the articles are no longer available, but here is a cartoon that appeared in the Grand Rapids, MI Press at the time:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a321/cwieberdink/image001.jpg)

And in keeping with the idea that it is indecent, here is a funny cartoon that makes the point pretty well:

(http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a321/cwieberdink/udderfeed.gif)

C

I'm curious: is it the possible fleeting appearance of a naked breast or instead the assumed attitude of the so-called "blatant" breastfeeders that most offends?

(I said I wasn't going to get into this debate... I really need to step out now)

yes - PCOS is polycistic ovary syndrome.

I'm yet another one who has it...  anyone who's been in chat in recent months would probably have heard me venting about it one time or another.

It is much more common than you may think.  Yes, we do need medication, yes we do have a higher risk of miscarriage - but that medication can often reduce that risk.

I also have friends with PCOS who have successfully had children - so it's not an automatic can't have kids ever condition.

That said - several of my friends have young babies.  They breast feed in public.  I have no problem with this, and realise that I am eventually going to have to face the same question myself.

Do you realise just how long it may take to feed a child?  It's not just a 5 minute deal.  Why should a mother out with friends have to duck off and leave the conversation/meal just to feed her child?  Tops don't need to be lifted that high, the baby covers most and light muslin throws are useful to maintain decency.

Now, THAT is something I cannot comment on, having no experienced it myself. I can say that discreetly or non discreetly, no woman should ever be told to leave for feeding their children.

I know that I, personally, don't mind breast feeding in public if done discreetly. Half the time, I don't even notice. It's just again... the moms that pull their boob OUT of their clothing to do it. I do recognize that sometimes fussy babies make it hard to be nonchalant about things sometimes.

And to answer Pegasys' question, if you haven't noticed by now, my stance is against the blatant breast showing. I understand that there might be a "nip slip" even by the most prude, but still, the ones that just pop it out bug me.

Gee, and all I did was mention an interesting new mod -- never expected WW III over it. :)

LOL I think a thread about pay/donation sites turned into a huge debate/fight about gay/bisexual people.  It was like 450 replies or something at the end, and it eventually got moved to Retardo Land.

Speaking of which, I couldn't find that mod under Squinge's profile (as I cannot look up the adult section at work).

You won't - it's in the adult section

Bloody hell this is a long debate about a simple mod on a nother site. Mind you, that's how conversation goes, you start talking about one tihng, and go onto another, but I guess it wasn't completely off topic.

On the whole debate; I honestly wouldn't care less if I saw a woman breastfeed, since I guess Britiain nowadays has slightly more 'liberal' attitudes to this sort of subject. And because I'm not offended by boobs at all, I have two, and I'm definately not offended by my own, lol.

Besides, while babies can get into routines, they're not robots, and when a baby needs to eat, and there's nowhere 'appropriate' to feed, you can't always work around that, as you can't exactly ignore a baby screaming for food.

While I agree that a woman taking the whole boob out and making a whole display of the whole thing isn't exactly tasteful - those woman are not exactly common. All the women I've seen breastfeed you can't see any breast, at all.

Tell that to Starbucks.  Apparently the people running the empire were all brought up on the bottle, which probably explains their dour attitudes.  ::)

People judge us all the time, but you have to let it go or you get bitter and old before your time. No, I'm sure being a nursing mom isn't easy with all of the weirdos running around thinking breasts are a sexual object, but I'm a little confused. Actually, I'm a lot confused. Just because I haven't given birth to a live child doesn't mean I can't support breastfeeding rights. I would think that the pro-natural milk section of society would appreciate support no matter if it comes from someone who's had ten kids or none at all. If we (and there are a lot of potential crunchies running around) were going around yelling "OMG BOOBIEZ GROSS, WHERE'S THE FORMULA" all the time, it'd be different, but support is support is support. This isn't meant offensively, I'm just bewildered.


Yes, but my insulin is slowly returning to normal because I started taking medication last year. Most, if not all women with PCOS have insulin resistance, and when metformin is prescribed and the body processes insulin in a more effective and normal way which means the body's hormonal cycles begin to behave in a more effective and normal way. Metformin also makes you more fertile, and in some scenarios Clomid is also necessary. I'm assuming your insulin is being regulated, so that should help some.

Hey, I'm one of those "Christian Soccer Moms", well, okay, a t-ball mom, not soccer  ::), but I breastfed three babies in public.

I belive it's a cultural thing.  I'm sure that many of our friends "across the pond" are wondering why the hell this is such a fiery debate.  But, big business has done a lot to turn us from mammals nursing our babies to sluts selling everything from perfume to pop music.  Amish women can nurse their babies in their churches, but I can't nurse my baby in a shopping mall unless I go to the bathroom.  Go figure.

I'm in the Deep South--Bible Belt--Conservative Red State-Redneck and "Dubbya" lovin' Land.  I'm in my mid-30's.  I was "raised right", which means raised to be modest.  I spent a fortune on nursing bras and blouses that had pannels that allowed me to not flash any nipple just in case.  And, I still covered up with a blanket if I was in public, even went to my car on more than one occasion to nurse a baby.  I hated it, but I just didn't feel comfortable doing it because, again, our culture sees me nursing as something "dirty" and "sexual".  Its wrong, and it's not my fault, and it's definately not my baby's fault, but it's a cultural fact of life where I live, and I bend because I must live in the culture.

With my last baby I worked and I pumped at work.  I had an office and plenty of privacy, but "Just In Case" I made a little sign that had a cow on it and said, "Kristal is in but busy, please come back later."  A female co-worker was offended and made me take it off.  The males, well, they had no idea what I was doing!  LOL

Anyway, I'm with the majority I think when I say I want this mod in my game very much, but am willing to wait until there is a More Awesome one from Pescado.  :)  As much realism as possible, please.  :)

i think in other society's and "longtime yestergo's" this is known as a 'wet nurse"  ;)

my "slightly off topic" opion is that this is WHY Americans are so overly obsessed with the human body.  All the puritanism led to repression, repression led to obsession, obsession led to something "i" think is a vast problem right now-which is that anything to do with the human body is now seen as sexual to where we practically make our sexuality our IDENTITY and all our thinking seems to revolve around it instead of it just being ONE of the parts of life. i wanna be more than that. Come to think of it-you don't see the lil native guys in south america with pin ups of boobs all over their walls-there are naked ones all over the place n they are seen as "bottles'-nuttin more or less-lol!  There's "modesty" which is natural, n then there's moribd fear (being taught everything to do with the body is dirty, nasty, etc)-which is not. Morbid fear leads to obsession >>steppin' off soap box<<  :D

ROFL!!!!

lol! i keep wondering if i'm gonna log back on to find this there  ;D i've been wondering how long Pescado's tolerance would hold out. He kinda reminds me of the way my hubby is-in that "semi-lovable grouch" way-lol! My hubby would sit here (if this conversation were going on in person) looking bored n blank for a while n then say with a raised eyebrow: "Can we talk about something else now?" n you'd KNOW he was "not at ALL impressed"-lol!

Added comment: WHOA! i was just a thread hog! so sorry you guys! That's what i get for commenting as i go, i spose  ::)

I don't see it as sexual. Just gross.

That's why they left it out of the game -- adult female sims DON'T EVEN HAVE NIPPLES, therefore HOW COULD THEY POSSIBLY BREASTFEED?!?

On second thought, I guess they do it the same way they go to the bathroom without ever taking their clothes off.

Right. The blur would be there. No need for private parts, no need for nipples. That's the Maxis way. ::)

Ugh, it really creeps me out that female sims have nipples until they become teens.

Me - I've just started on metformin.  PCOS is caused by insulin resistance so the question is not so much IF, but HOW BAD...  I'm just relieved to have found out very early in the game.  Hoping to avoid the clomid, but will look into that in August if no luck by then.

(rather an odd topic to be talking about on a games forum, but hey...  I've talked about my sims games on my conception forum, so fair's fair)

Not any more.  It's been moved to the same section as the rest of Squinge's stuff.  You can find it here: http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=8084

There are now different versions to choose from - male-only, female-only, and both male and female.  Also something to speed up the feeding process. 

Karen

Still. if you are smart you will wait for the more awesome than you version. ::)

My doc just shoved me on birth control... he didn't test my insulin levels at all.

I'm infertile, and the only kids I'll likely have will be funny-looking mutants. There's no pain. Well, no pain for *ME* anyway. Uranium burns, though.

If you think you may want to get pregnant in the future, you may want to find a new doc.

Oh, he told me that I'd need something for when I want to get pregnant. Said that I would need something to balance out my hormones and insulin levels that didn't impair my ability to get pregnant like birth control.

*hopes that JM is working on an awesome version of this hack*

Ain't it interesting that a so-called civilised society has this huge furore about breasts? Meh... it's all pants because, as someone else has probably pointed out, it is something that the developing nations have in perspective. The correct perspective, I hasten to add. Why, in some parts of the world a woman will suckle other animals (pigs noteably) because they have worth within that society! Not so certain you'd see that happening either here or in the USA. I think (ducks for cover and possibility of rocks) that our attitudes are rooted in religion and the sentiment that any sort of nudity is sinful.

This would rock so much. Finally, we'd be able to have a specific nursery room on the third floor, far away from visitors and pains-in-the-asses, just big enough for skilling toys, cribs and changers, and not have to send an older sim on a five mile hike to the fridge and back just to feed the little brat. A more awesome version of this would be almost too awesome to bear.

This didn't occur to me until you pointed it out. Thanks for making me disturbed, too.  :-\ What happens to them? Where do they go? Are they re-absorbed by the body? Do they fall off? Urg.

LOL I didn't even notice that Sims don't have nipples.  I use custom defaults now (finally found a set I like) and they have nipples and hair (look out, she's reformed!  :P)

Better yet - Females have nipples up until they become teens, but male sims keep them all their lives. ...Yeeeeah.

I replaced the defaults with skins that at least had nipples for everyone the moment I could.

Very odd.  Since replacing the skins, I actually haven't had any kids born, so I have no idea if they have nipples or not.  I guess I'll have to wait and see.

commiserations to those on metformin...its a horrible drug but i suppose if it helps with your insulin resistance and PCOS then so be it, but there are alternatives you could ask your docs about

funny this debate about breastfeeding and sim-nipples and so forth. i'll keep out of the former as i am a midwife and a one time breastfeeder of 3 kids (not all at once) so my views will be biased

i don't think the presence or absence of sim-nipples should be an issue. they are not vital to a sim being able to breastfeed, after all the absence of genitalia still enables them to woohoo and give birth

look forward to an awesome version  ;D

My son lactated when a few months old. Itty bitty little droplets. I can't wait to tell his girlfriends when he's older.

Obviously you've never hung out on parenting forums.

They aren't, but it's still Really Weird. Male sims have nipples all of their lives, but female sims only have them baby through toddler. THAT gave me pause, let me tell you - for, while I am aware of the (pointless, silly, ridiculous) reason why they de-nipplized the women, I'm surprised they'd bother to include them at all for anyone else, in that case. Even Barbies are more egalitarian - Ken doesn't have nipples either. Friggin' BARBIES, man...

And you know, traditionally, it was butts that were the biggest deal, not boobies. We're heading backwards nowadays. I mean, stuff from millenia ago is more "risque". Next thing you know, we're gonna think ankles are "gross" again.

Heh, sometimes I wonder! Although consider how fashionable low-low-low cut "Does she hold those things in with tape?!" shirts are - but nipples are still a big taboo. Maybe pasties will end up being street fashion.

... The idea both fascinates and horrifies me.

[EDIT: Forgot a word.]

Hah! *thinks of Lita from the WWE's current wardrobe* Yeah, it's definately tape.

that's the metformin...  from what I've read shoving PCOS people on birth control makes things worse - gives you even more hormones that your body can't balance out properly.  I never had a weight problem at all, but now that I've stopped the pill and am trying to get pregnant it seems that I starting to have a weight problem.

metformin isn't that bad, at least not for me but I have heard that some people have huge issues with it.

Hmm. See, I was told that the reason I gained weight BEFORE birth control was because of the PCOS.

I actually lost weight when I got on the pill.

EH?! Mine didn't either, and it wasn't until last year that I realized the error of his ways - and when my insulin was finally checked I was producing eleven times the normal amount. PCOS is caused by insulin resistance. If left unchecked many people end up with diabetes. (This is of course a simplification on my part.) I'm not a doctor, and I don't play one on TV or in TS2, but birth control made my PCOS worse and that seems to be the rule, not the exception. I had to get three opinions before getting straightened out.

Hmm, fun stuff... I don't want to go doc hunting.. It took me to age 22 to finally go to one of them gynos.....

And the doc really didn't do much to begin with. Said "Oh, you have this, go get a blood test to be SURE it's not thyroid. Blood tests were clean, okay you definately have PCOS."

You do know that low-carbing cures PCOS.  Well maybe cure is too strong a word, but so long as you restrict your carbohydrates below a certain level, the symptons vanishes.

A low carbohydrate diet is helpful with a lot of things.   A nice side benefit to it is if you decrease your carbs
and increase your physical activity a little you will also probably start to lose some weight.    That being said,
if you start a low carb diet you should also research it a bit before you start.   People who have fibromyalgia
also benefit greatly from a low carb intake.   

Squinge found another interesting thing today.

He found a way to stop townie and our controllable Sims to fill their inventory with the things they buy.  Even better our controllable Sims won't actually loose money over the things they bought and the owner will still make money.

If you direct your Sim to buy things though they will keep it in their inventory and it will deduct the money which is completely normal.

Here is the link to this new mod he made today:  http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=8418

Okay, first off, let me say that I was thoroughly amused by this post. the idea of men breast feeding and "tit's on a bull" had me in hysterics. I think it's a decent idea for a mod, and a "good" start. A "More Awesome" version would be nice, as I've come to trust the mods you guys make. Anyway, now let me get some seriousness out of the way.


It's not "America" as a whole Stitches, it's called politics. It's all about getting votes. People raise enough stink about something and threaten the politicians of being ousted and shit happens. Where I live breast feeding isn't an issue. I've seen it many times. Yeah, theres still the few people who take offense to it, but you stil lsee it.

I don't understand a lot of things society has made "proper" or "improper", all this politacally correct crap drives me up the wall too. All these silly things people worry about, yet they over look the crime, the starving children (right here in the US!!), the barbie doll mentality & more. I could unload a book worth of complaints I have, but that's not why I am posting...

The whole point of this was to say it's not America as a whole, it's just cause & effect. Politics gone awry. Anyway, I'll close this post with a little joke...

---

Son: "Dad, I have to do a special report for my Political Science course. Can I ask you a question?"

Dad: "Sure son, what's the question?

Son: "What is politics?" My professor says that it has something to do with a pillow."

Dad: "Well, I am not sure what your instructor means, but let's take our home as an example. I am the wage earner, so let's call me Management. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we'll call her Government. We take care of you and your needs, so let's call you The People. We'll call the maid The Working Class and your baby brother we'll call The Future. Do you understand?

Son: "I'm not really sure Dad, I'll have to think about it."
 
That night, awakened by his baby brother's crying, the boy went to see what was wrong. Discovering the baby had seriously soiled his diaper, the son went to his parent's room and found his mother sound asleep. He went to the maid's room where, peeking through the keyhole, he saw his father in bed with the maid. The boy's knocking went totally unheard by his father and the maid, so the boy returned to his room and went back to sleep.
The next morning:

Son: "Dad, now I think I understand politics."

Dad: "That's great son, explain it to me in your own words."

Son: "Well, Dad, it is like this...

While Management is screwing The Working Class, the Government is sound asleep. The People are being completely ignored, and The Future is full of crap."

---

anthony

Dad: "And by the way...if you see your Mother today, will you be sure and tell her: SATAN SATAN SATAN!"

I won't deny the political angle but I'm not concerned about it so much. Politics change with the wind. I'm more concerned with a culture that has for over 300 years, promoted the idea that there is something terrible and sinful about the human body and sexuality.

the point about "if you've never done it, you don't know what you are talking about" was aimed at people that are saying "why don't you just pump?" I think.  Pumping was IMPOSSIBLE for me unless I actually went to the hospital and got pumped by a huge machine like a cow milker.  Pumping is HARD.  They had to do it to get my milk flowing, and I tried to pump later with an electric pump, but my daughter was the only one who could get milk out of me. :p

Thank you for playing: Too Much Information.

because generally, ony a baby can stimuate the body to release the hormones to trigger the let- down reflex
some sucker of a pump just isnt going to do it anywhere near as efficiently

But Jack says that.. "Bread is back!" damnit!

LoL, poor radio, did ya get some wicked visuals there? I know I did... Owies!


Well, US politics haven't really changed since it's inception as a free country. The names & faces have changed, but it's basically the same. Thing is, these days, the politicians just have a lot more ways to screw things up.

Now on to the "puritan" attitude. Yes, it's true it's been going on for a while, but once again, it's not everyone as a whole. The US is such a mix of all cultures that you can't pin this on America. Now, at the risk of beiing flogged by any of the "English" (as in England/Britain), users, if you must point a finger, the "puritans" came from there and settled here. LoL (maybe cuz they got ran out, which is what we should do too, but that's another issue...) America is like a big huge melting pot of cultures. There are a lot of goods and bads, it's just the BAD's always stick out the most since todays press has a flair for finding everyones deepest darkest secrets and posting them up on billboards..

anthony <-- I suppose I should make a signature eventually, eh?

America was founded by religious fanatics.

Says about enough.

Everything you're saying is very true but it misses my point. My point is that I'm really tired of people, especially women, hating their bodies regardless of the huge melting pot. I've lived here my whole life. I've been all around the country in my travels and I've met many different people with different values and every where you go you find the same self loathing. All I wanted to know was if it was any better off in "western" cultures because I desperately need some sort of clue that it's not IMPOSSIBLE for America to move forward.

Well, they are a lot more open about these things in Europe, but if you ask me it doesn't make them hate their bodies any less. They just objectify women even more than they do here (naked women are used to sell EVERYTHING), and they are more focused on appearance and perfection. No offense to any Europeans, but I really think this vanity comes at a price.

As a Brit, and also a mother, I'm gonna say things. Cos I can. Seeing people breastfeed in public makes me uncomfortable. I like breasts, they look pretty, they're nice to touch. I entirely support brestfeeding, it's excellent for the baby, of course, and all this, hooray for breastfeeding, I am in no way putting it down. But nonetheless, seeing people breastfeeding in public makes me uncomfortable.

I was never brestfed as a child, my mother was on medication that would have made it very much not good for me, and I'll admit now, I tried breastfeeding my daughter for only a few weeks, she was a mean little sod, who chewed with her little baby gums and made my nipples bleed, and I only ever did it at home, even if friends were round but never in public, so I'm not really a leading expert on it. Fact is though, because of the culture, mostly brought about in the 50's and 60's (my mother and her sisters were never breastfed either, simply cos my grandma didn't think it was 'nice', whihc I understand was a fairly common thing at the time) of breasts being a sexual thing, I just don't know where to look when a woman whips out her tit and latches a baby onto it.
Because boobies *giggles scandallously* are normally something hidden away, your eye is natrally drawn to one if it's exposed. Also, I dunno if it's just me, but I get that thing guys at urinals do or don't have, where I want to compare, but like I said, maybe that's just me. Problem is, of course, feeding babies is what they're there for, it's the best way to feed babies, all of the above pro-breastfeeding things. Which makes it entirely inappropriate to want to look. And that is why I find it uncomfortable to see women breastfeeding in public. Not cos of any 'EEek, shock, howrude, boobs!!!' issue, or cos I think formula is better, or ANYTHING like that, just...cos of society, here in Britain almost as much as over there, it's got a stigma aattatched.

It's a shame, but Ima have to sit on the side of 'Yes, it's lovely and natural, but I don't want to have to see it'.

O, and the fact that this mod exists makes me happy...>.> Hehe...

a thoughtful and honest post Nivaya
i understand the sentiments
it is a bit of a stgma here to have your tits out for breastfeeding, but apparently ok on page 3 of a  national daily tabloid for titillation (excuse the pun).
i breastfed each of mine for 8 weeks each, that was their lot as i hated it, hated the feeling, hated the (probably imagined) smell of stale milk about my person, the leakage and all. i did breastfeed in public under a shawl, which most women tend to do. we don't want our boobs on display any more than anyone wants to look at them .....if said boobs are breastfeeding. get them out on a saturday night in town when pissed...thats ok

it's all somewhat about double standards imo....eeeeuwww breastfeeding/phwoar tits

in my job i have to support and encourage new mums in breastfeeding. i too, understand that breast is best and all that. i understand the physiology and psychology behind breastfeeding. but at the end of the day women have to do what is comfortable for them. babies thrive either way

True, that's all well and good. However, its the attitudes, like some expressed in this thread, that KEEP moms from being able to do what is best for the babies, and best for them. It isn't realistic to stay home for a year + while breastfeeding. Lives go on. It isn't realistic to expect every mom to own a good pump and/or be able to get milk expressed well that way so they can feed a bottle in public. I breastfeed, in part, because I don't want to deal with bottles. Mann women choose breastfeeding to save money. A good pump is $150-250.

We're talking about feeding babies here folks. Not giving public blowjobs.

No one has a right to not be offended. Just.. look.. away. I have to do that lots. Like when I see a mom in walmart with her tiny little baby in the cart, crying his little heart out, and she just ignores him. I want to go pick him up. But I can't. I have to just look away. The neglect we inflict upon the tiniest members of our society ought to be what offends people, not seeing a mom caring for her child in such a loving way and feeding it at the same time.

I saved over US$1000 by nursing. (maybe its using the word breast...is nursing less offensive?)  At 20 USD a can for formula, man, that adds up FAST, then, if your kid needs soy, or other specialized formula...some runs at over 40 USD a can. 

It IS interesting to see such a discussion on a gaming forum, heck, it's been more civil here than on some parenting forums I've been on.

Hey don't look at us, we were standing at the dockside cheerfully waving them off and thinking, 'thank god for that'.

whoa!! just accidentally pressed the thanks button instead of the quote one....LOL wasn't epecting the result
0po-
anyhoo.....i am not arguing with this. that wasn't supposed to be how it  comes across
i do take issue slightly with pumps though. some women do see them as an easy option and want to use them from day one before breastfeeding is established. nothing gets the milk going and established well like a baby.
it would be good if more shops and particularly restaurants/cafes could have a quiet room where mums can breastfeed in privacy if thats what they wish. and yeah, would be good too if attitudes changed so that mums could stay where they were and feed. but i can't see that happening anytiime soon while breasts remain sexual

Hehee, i love the thanks button. I push it for fun :)

I wasn't just addressing my comments to you. Really only the "comfortable" part of my post.

I feel uncomfortable directly quoting the people who I really take issue with. Odd, because on a parenting board, of which I frequent many, I'd have no trouble ripping them a new one :)

For the record, nursing in public makes me uncomfortable, though I wish it didn't. Nursing in front of my father in law makes me uncomfortable, but mostly because it makes HIM so uncomfortable. At the local walmart I've asked to use a changing room and have been welcomed. However, some women have been refused the use of a changing room, at Walmart, at Victoria's secret, at other stores. Do you (general you) want to eat YOUR meal while sitting on a public toilet? No? Well neither does my baby.

And sometimes, just once in a while, I have to drive up to the "big" city nearest. It's an hour drive. My oldest daughter has braces and has to have semi-regular orthodontic appointments. I have to take the baby. I'm her food source. And sometimes we like to go out to eat at one of those restaurants we don't have here in our small town, like Chili's (that cake, its that damned cake). And what can I do if my baby starts to fuss and wants to eat right as our food has come? As much as I dislike it, I feel like I need to nurse the babe. Takes me 10 minutes and then she's happy and asleep, and I get to eat. At least at Chili's I've never had even a harsh look. And so that's why these posts calling public breastfeeding gross, or that it shouldn't be done, really upset me. Sometimes its just unavoidable. And since I'm doing nothing wrong, I see no reason to let my baby cry so as to not offend a person who has every ability to just LOOK AWAY.

Heck, here in Nebraska, I haven't really experienced any harsh looks for nursing. Maybe because so many folks grew up on a farm and saw nursing kittens, nursing puppies, nursing foals, nursing calfs. It's just a part of having a baby. It's normal. It's natural. And until 70 years ago or so, its the only way anyone really ever fed their baby. It isn't wicked, or wrong, or sexual, or gross, or any of those things. It's just FEEDING A BABY. Just pretend its a bottle if it makes you feel better.

that made me giggle.

I had a woman tell me "that's why they have bathrooms" [at the mall]  and I used that argument, I don't eat my dinner in the bathroom, why should my baby.

With my first baby, I excused myself from the table at a restaurant, with my second, I got tired of eating cold meals.

Jase has made a better, more fabulous, non conflicty version that is kitten killer and generally sim pie menu compatible. In other words, his version shouldn't cause any problems with the sim pie menu or any mods that modify it. Although mods in general should avoid directly modifying the sim pie menu to begin with because of this issue.

Ste

Where is it?  Can you provide a link?

http://www.insimenator.net/showpost.php?p=111476&postcount=197

That's the link to the post that Jase made.

I checked that link but there wasn't any program attached on that page.

I don't know why anybody is complaining about the rudeness of breastfeeding in public. Since we are not supposed to be staring at people we don't know then it would follow that polite people have never seen anybody breastfeeding in public, no matter how obviously it was done.

The downloadable file is now on the last page of the thread - that link was just to Jase's reply.  You should find a link further down to show the rest of the thread.

Actually, Squinge made an update to Jase's version, so the file is back in the first message in the thread.  However, Squinge does acknowledge that it will conflict with JMP's 'nobabyharassment' mod, and I much prefer that one, so the breastfeeding in my game will have to wait for JMP's awesome version.

I used the link above to get to the page where I found another link in the upper right hand corner that led to the rest of the conversation and then followed the link at the bottom of the page to get to the first page where I found the program.

Not complicated at all!  ;)

Then I went back and tried to read the 11 pages of conversation and instead went back to the original link and just started from where Jase started and read from there. By the time they were all done talking about it there was a pretty awesome version to download. I don't use the nobabyharassment so I will give this a try.

I do wonder how they were able to get the baby to be selectable. That would be very useful since usually babies are total wildcards... no way to tell what they want (besides diaper changes) without the Sim Psychic Powers.

Merola's mind control mirror

available at variousimmers and MTS2, actually, within that thread on insiminator, I provided the link...I think

http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=33870

there it is

You're right - it's been moved.  My bad.

Indeed, and as soon as we could we went back to debauchery and total dismissal of anything that would stop us from doing it.  ;D

I could be mistaken but I took a look at the code, and the new kitten killer compatible version that jase made should pretty much be compatible with the nobabyharassment mod too. The nobabyharassment modded the same Test BHAV found in the original Squinge version. If you have both of these mods in the same folder and you are running an NTFS file system (i.e. WinXP) then based on load order, Pescado's changes would clobber Squinge's, which would normally expand the availability of the breast feeding option.

However, with the newer version, jase abstracted the Test into a private BHAV, so as I understand it, they pretty much shouldn't conflict. So you should be able to use both in your game. I haven't confirmed this yet 'in-game' but I'm just making an educated guess based on what I saw in SimPE. Scanning with the new conflict checking tool should show that there are no direct clashes at least.

I'd say go ahead and give it a try. It shouldn't hurt anything. Most conflicts like these are minor ones anyway.

Ste

Thanks, Ste!  I was just going on what Squinge said in his original posting -- I'll have to put the new version back and see what happens.  In the worst case, if it doesn't work right or they clobber each other I can just exit the lot without saving and deactivate this one again.