More Awesome Than You!

It has always been said that testers should provide feedback to creators of hacks. I am just wondering if you would download a hack from a modder who said something like this. This is from http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?c=1&p=1137334#post1137334

But I pasted the relevant parts here:

User:
Hi, I download this the other day and promptly tested it. Was having my YA make over his dormies when the game suddenly crashed on me. I never have a crash when playing sims before. It was in the middle of applying make up on the dormie or changing clothes for the townie when it happen.

I am not sure why the game crashed but after I took out this hack, everything was fine once again.  

Creator of mod:
That's called coincidence.  

Interestingly, s/he has two 'helpers' out at that thread helping people with their various queries. So far, this is the only reply s/he made in that thread to a user's 'feedback' (as far as I can tell from those 7 pages of replies so far) and this is the only negative feedback on her thread so far.

I just want to know what everyone's opinion on this is.
 

That's pretty rude. I would take the hack out, and never download anything by that creator again! :D

I would say that paricular modder has gotten very arrogant, and I would be inclined to stay the heck away from his stuff incase in created a BFBVFS.
Total disrespect to the community.

As Pescado would say, stay away from the non-awesome hacks ;D

She was really sniffy about the comment, wasn't she? Someone I shan't be looking for when I visit MTS2, and as always I will stay away from the non-awesome stuff.

I've noticed that ChristianLov has a bit of a personal relations problem. Rather ironic considering the username...

Ya'll are kidding, right? Sure, the comment is kinda snotty, but, while I'm not using that particular hack, Christianlov made the autonomous woohoo bed, which I sure wouldn't give up because a modder got sick of silly comments from the many many users that haven't a clue how to playtest and blame hacks for everything from killing small animals to causing nuclear explosions.

I dunno what Pescado would say given a similar report. If he was feeling generous, he might explain that "my computer crashed" is totally useless as an error report. You have to isolate the cause (and with a game as complicated as this, all the many mods in the world, and on a computer of who knows what specs, that's hard) and then be able to repeat the error (assuming there is one) to do anything about it at all. He might ask for testing and computer specs (most likely cause of crashes) and when and how the crash happened and debug reports. But Pescado generous? Well, he might have got snarky too - he does that sometimes. More likely he'd point and laugh.

Yesterday I spent most of the day trying to track down what was going on with my game. I wanted to run a B&B so I had a podium so the chef could serve food and I was charging entry. Customers would buy a ticket, come in and decide the menu looked good - 2 sets of sales interactions but they'd do it. Then I discovered that (even when I set the tables up well, another problem they weren't getting seated properly) they'd order, the server would bring the food and they'd get up and leave - without eating. Very annoying, especially as you don't get paid 'til they eat.

Hm, I had some custom food in, maybe it was that. Took it out. Still not eating. I'd recently put in (again) CrammyBoy's eatmore/talkless mod. That seemed a likely culprit - maybe they were full. Pulled the mod, they still wouldn't eat. Pulled all hacks. Didn't work. No errors in debug mode. Forcing an error on the plate and deleting got rid of the food and the server could clean it up, but they still couldn't eat. Had my owner try to eat a plate sitting there. He wouldn't. Finally closed the business and while waiting for the cab, had him try to eat the same plate again and now he could.

How come he could eat when the business was closed but not before? Well because the ticket machine wasn't on and (duh me, didn't I read there were problems with the ticket machine) you can't do both on one lot :p. So now I know I can turn the machine off during "breakfast" or serve them at the tables and hike up the ticket cost (which works fine) and have a Sunday buffet where they serve themselves (also works fine). I musta restarted my game up to 10 times figuring it out tho. All because Maxis provides no manuals with their dang game - still imagine if I'd just blamed one of my mods and not tried to test it (in some circumstances it would be easy to get a "doesn't happen without the mod" answer even if the mod had nothing to do with it.

Point being, people are not always nice. I don't require modders to be "nice" - note, here I sit and Pescado's rep is anyting but.

Er, that was LizzLove. Different person, afaik.

oops, sorry, well some other hack I have. Substitute something that makes sense :)

Thank you for the link - it looks very handy, especially in planning outfits, when you are forced to open and close the dresser hundreds of times. Downloaded  :D :D

The coincidence is, that another modder thought of a similar hack - nothing wrong with it; JMP and TJ have both college adjuster, which work side by side...:).

If you like it - download it, and test it. I am sure that the modder will listen to all your complaints...:).

I think you have to consider that Christianluv speaks English as a second language, he's made some fabulous mods (including the All-in-One NPC), and I really don't think it's fair to judge a modder based on one, one-line comment in a thread.  And as rudeness goes, you could get A LOT more rude than "That's called coincidence."  Again, this is not a native English speaker, so consider that.  Christianluv has worked his tail off on the All-in-One NPC and he's been nothing but helpful and considerate in all his posts.  He constantly apologizes for English not being his native language (though actually his English is pretty good), so I REALLY don't think he meant a bit of harm by "That's called coincidence", he probably doesn't perceive that as sarcasm the way we do.  Or if he does, maybe he was just having a bad day.  Believe me if we're judging modders on attitude, Christianluv is at the top.  I could name a handful of others who are at the bottom, but I won't.    ::)

I'm a bit biased against him/her because of how s/he's acted here. The attitude was a little above what can be excused by not speaking English natively (said by someone surrounded by non-native English speakers).

The snippiness of the reply wasn't that bad, quite right, but it was amazingly unuseful - telling someone their problem is coincidence, full stop, does not further a dialogue. Pescado is an asshole but he's an asshole who will further a dialogue - if it had been him, I could see him telling that person it was probably coincidence and they'd have to do X, Y, or Z to get any solid data.

I don't use his/her hacks but it's less because of attitude and more because the documentation for his/her hacks, when it exists, is labyrinthine. Don't have the patience... ;)

Actually, I laughed at this when I read it (but then again, I have a mean sense of humor).  Classic example of bad customer service. 

Sorry, non-native speakers get a lot of slack but that "answer" to the question is flippant in any language.  A simple "my hack isn't the cause of your problems" would have sufficed.  Unless he's Finnish, then I guess I can cut him some slack. 

I remember downloading that hack but I took it out because I never used it and so never saw the point.  Glad it didn't coincidentally crash my game and I didn't have to go back on the thread to report it. 

The only thing I look at is the modder's track record with putting out things that work (for me).  Some of the best are not people persons  ;)

Usually I don't even post when I have problems with a mod unless I think the creater would appreciate feedback on my testing.  Mostly because I run with so many hacks that it is hard to tell if it is just a conflict or an actual problem.  I figure I get them for free and if it doesn't work it is simply a matter of taking it out.

*L* What would being Finnish have to do with anything?

I find, from my own experiences with Finns, (<==disclaimer so as not to piss off any Finnish people) that they come off as a very cold people in demeanor even though they may not be so.  It's the lack of sun.  Scandinavia has high levels of depression. 

How is that rude? He's probably right.
An error like this cannot be caused by this particular mod.

It's not as if he attacked the other person.

Yeah, in winter they tend to be very quiet, but during the summer everyone is very lively! As far as I can tell (I've lived in Finland for the past year) they tend to be more introverted and keeping to themselves than cold, and seem a bit uncertain of how to react to new people until they are very used to them. It suits me well here because I am just like that already.  ;D

Eeew. Sun.

/me hiss at sun.

IT BURNS! Why would you be DEPRESSED by the lack of SUN? Sun is BAD!

*The Words of the Vampire*...:)

Hey, I hate the sun too :P

 Yes! I would download it, as long as it works as advertised.
 Who cares if the modder is not all sweetness and light. Can't say as I blame them sometimes either, they put in some work on these things, offer them for free, and then have to listen to half assed remarks from people who don't always know what they are talking about. A generic "you made my game crash" is not constructive criticism and is not going to be helpful to the modder in identifying problems. The first post at the top of the page by Qwiggwag is much more to the point and might actually be useful if the modder were inclined to tweak things.
Also I have been using the older version of this for ages and I love it, it has never caused problems in my game.

Maybe Christianlov knows his hack cannot cause this particular problem and it therefore replying perfectly accurately.  A few more words might have made it sound more friendly, but I think it is somewhat overreacting to say you'd never touch any of his work.

i quite like christianlov and have quite a few of his hacks in my game which have never caused a promblem , so quite frankly who cares if hes rude somtimes , and ive seen modders be an awful lot meaner to people who say stuff like "you made my game crash" but i suppose thats how some people see it ., game was working i then installed x hack and now it isent. 

just a note on the mod/modder in question-i've got this clothing rack on every single one of my lots, n have had-thru university and nightlife and now ofb. i don't know what i'd do without it! it's an "awesome" hack in my opinion  :)

Without any more details from the user such as an error log or her statement as to the error being reproducible in a number of different situations, it can be difficult for a modder to try to figure out a resolution.  I saw that post because I'm one of Christianlov's fans and I read his threads all the time but when I saw it, I felt the same way Christianlov did.
He is usually an accommodating modder.  Well, take a look for yourself on how many pages that one particular thread is.  He updates his hacks all the time to accommodate people.
I love Christianlov and his creations.  

Depends on what bed sagana was refering too. I'm not sure if it is autonomous, but Christianlov did make an Easy Bed (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=116043). Didn't bother to see if it was autonomous, but it does allow for easier woohoo.

Btw. I've noticed this demeanor as well, and I don't necessarily blame them for their 'attitude' or demeanor. It can be quite frustrating when the replies you get are just thanks, with no real feedback, good or bad... ( which although I appreciate, doesn't reall help much if it's something that really needs testing and not just in my game, since it works for me but I don't know yet if it works for everyone) Or... negative feedback or complaints with hardly any information at all except to assume your mod is the cause, when whatever method the user might have attempted to determine this may not have been thorough, and merely a 'coincidence.'

While I don't necessarily condone that tone, I don't see it as excessively rude. It seems more jaded to me. :P Try keeping up a chipper, peppy, gregarious attitude when all you get are unsubstantiated or unverifiable reports of unreproducable errors. Try keeping up that attitude when you attempt to help those people give you better information by giving them clear, precise directions how to go about doing so, and they refuse to heed your directions because they are lazy or feel that it is too complicated to bother with. Or... they don't come back at all. :P

It's like when you're sitting in the #help channel on MTS2 chat. People will pop in for a second, complain about something, and leave immediately if no one responds within picoseconds of their complaint. Um... hello? I wasn't even reading that window yet. I didn't even finish reading your complaint. How would you expect me comprehend what you are saying, much less forumulate an appropriate and thorough response, and type it in before you leave! ::)

Anyways... as they say, you can only help those who help themselves. Give a man a fish, they eat for a day, give a man a fishing pole... yadda, yadda, yadda, man do fish stink, I prefer beef. :P

Ste

Hehe, certain modders say stuff like that all the time.  :P  I don't think it was the most tactful way to say what he did, but it wasn't really rude either.  :-\


MTS2 has a help channel?  Where, like, they can all go to get immediate (well, not immediate, help?

Short answer: yes.

You don't say... I have no clue who you're talking about. ;D


Yeah. If you go to the chat page... I think it usually auto joins you to #help if you use the java app. Unless they changed that. *shrugs*

There is a #help, #social, and #adult channel. I don't know how strictly the #adult channel is enforced. Certain non-adults get some leeway. *shrugs* I don't know if there are automatic/programmatic means to regulate/enforce an age check other than the chan ops, who often just sit around socializing or not. I am unaware of any secret chanops or MTS2 moderator channels, but I'm sure they probably exist.

The #help channel usually has some helpful peeps sitting around. And the chanops/moderators are for the most part helpful, when they are active. They aren't always sitting around and immediately available, but I pop on there from time to time if I have non-modding related questions about regular gameplay, since you know, I don't play the game and have no idea what regular gameplay is like, aside from what I can infer from the code that I've read. lol. :D

People often pop in, complain, and then leave quite abruptly. ::)

If no one answers, I pop over to #social or #adult and nag people there. :P

Ste

Hehe, if I have questions I go to #grah or here.  Works pretty well.  :)

I'm almost afraid to ask what the #social and #adult sections are like.  Sounds sheeplike and naughty respectively.  :P

I'm not really sure what the benefit of this is? I use the dma stuff and it does pretty much the same things...

But it always pissed me off that buying clothes for townies post-NL doesn't add the clothing to the townie clothing pool, but rather your sims'. That means you get tons of unnecessary clothing files clogging up your sims' dressers. I wonder, w/ this hack - when you buy clothes for neighbor, does it add the clothing to the townie clothing pool or your sims' clothing pool?

I agree the comment was a bit short, though I'm not sure I would call it rude.  It's much too difficult to convey what you really mean when tone gets lost.  I've downloaded a few of his hacks, and I can't live without his counterfeit diploma, he's good at what he does..he's not JM but anyway.  I don't think I would make a decision on his character over one comment, everyone has bad days and I'm sure "ONG!1!1 Teh hacK brokeh mi game!1!" get old.   Besides there are much bigger assholes on MYL2 that I would rather slap ;).

It's not as sheepish as the BBS. Actually, I used to hang out there on #social and #adult all the time. Pescado was often on #social (before he was booted or... left of his own accord, I really have no clue when it comes to the behinid the scenes drama :P) and still hangs about occassionally. Anyhew, I've seen him there lately now and then.

The #social and #adult channels can be just as fun as #grah. I think Pescado might have had #grah on MTS2 before as well, but I forget.

There were regulars on #social and #adult, some that are still there I guess, but I tend to hang about in cycles. I'll go through periods of checking in all the time, and then I'll drop off the face of the channel, and when I come back, I'll vaguely remember who was who. :P But that's just how I am when it comes to online communities in general. Nowadays, I rarely connect on an individual basis to the point that I keep long lasting friendships that exist outside of those specific forums.  :-\

But yeah, #social and #adult are nowhere near as bad as the BBS. IMHO, it's lightyears beyond, and #grah is of course a step above that. Well... depending on whom you consider keeping company with. *ahem*  :-X

And you know me, I love being naughty. ;) #adult can be a no holds barred kinda chat to let loose and be silly and not ph33r corrupting any youngins. ;D

They also had some bot run channels for playing word games. I forget the name of it, but it was pretty fun when you're lookin for a quick fix to alleviate boredom.

As for #grah, #grah is good, when Pescado and company are awake. :P

Ste

Meh, #grah definitely has its boring times.  That's when you just leave.  And this is especially of late when certain people who don't belong hang out....

Certain people who don't belong?

Well, a certain person really, who doesn't play Sims.  Anyone who is there regularly will know who I'm talking about.

Well I play the sims - compulsively - so that lets me out ;)

Anyone who doesn't go there regularly might think you meant them? (Ok, I wasn't really worried, I mean hey you *did* say hey to me nicely :) The only times I was there it seemed awfully quiet... I must hang around at off-times for other folks. But then I was only checking on the TWs game anyways, and then didn't even play. <isn't very good at socializing>

No, of course I don't mean you lol.  I don't mean anyone from this site.

Sometimes it is really quiet and no one is really talking.  That's not just because you showed up that we all stopped talking.  ;)  It just gets quiet and/or boring.

Oh, someone not from the site? That's different. I'm surprised anyone else even found the place - the instructions are kinda hidden even on this site. Not that I know if there's some IRC channels list somewhere or something.

Good, I'm glad :) I'll hafta try again sometime to find the talk-y times.

I download many mods for my game and some of my favorite creations come from people who've exhibited less than perfect social graces.  Being someone myself who has to work constantly at tactfulness, I try to take it with a grain of salt.  It's sometimes hard to word things in ways that express exactly what a person means and for someone whose native tongue isn't English to begin with it's bound to be even more difficult.

Having said that, I've used this particular mod of Christianlov's and have to say I absolutely love it!  It sits on a small, rather secluded Townie Maker Lot in my neighborhood. 

Taken out of context, I might think he was rude, but I've seen his responses too many times in other threads to believe he is being mean. He seems to always be concerned that people are happy with his work.

*runs off to remove christianlovs easy computer from downloads folder :P

I have all of his hacks he has always been nice and one in particler hack that is used by alot of people is his all in one NPC great addition to the game you dont need those rude old nannies.

A while back, I was having problems with a new version of the bathroom controller Pescado had made.  It was crashing the game when I loaded any lot that had the TP on it, and all my lots have it.  I hopped over to #grah, and Pescado said it was impossible that a hack would cause a CTD.  Yet it was happening, and I had isolated it to this one hack because I'd taken out all my other hacks but this one.  The thing that made it trickier to pin down is that it didn't always happen instantly on loading a lot.  On one particular lot, it happened at 6:00 pm when one of the sims who was asleep woke up.  It happened every time.  I made a test lot in a test neighborhood, and everything was fine until I put the TP on the lot.  So Pescado asked if there was an error log as per usual, but I wasn't getting one, it simply crashed.  He was honestly perplexed.  He made a test version for me to try that was designed to generate an error log, but it didn't, it just crashed the game.  He finally figured out that somehow the game was still reading OFB code in my NL game, even though he had put in tests to see if the game had OFB installed, but the game was apparently ignoring them.  It was rather frustrating, but I have to say that Pescado was very helpful in finding the problem and making an updated hack that did not crash.  Partly because I knew how to do my own testing and I could present a fairly accurate picture.  He did at first say it was a "Rainbow problem" but once I presented the evidence to him that it definitely was not, plus the fact that other users reported problems in the thread, he took the time to help me troubleshoot the problem.  I can definitely handle that.

Therefore, I think that there is a difference between someone who is just plain rude and not helpful at all, and someone who is intelligent and helpful with a side of smartass. ;)  And I think we as users have a responsibility to do as much testing on our own before blaming the problem on the mod and then giving the modder as much information as we can, preferably the circumstances that can reproduce the problem. 

I have also found not only modders that other people with a rather high IQ can be rude, they boarder on the edge of insanity.

How on earth could you have possibly arrived at this conclusion?

This person was not very clear on what happend in the game never offered an error log or anything that would of been useful for the modeer to find the problem and it could of been a confilct with another mod that they where using.

they tend to come in threes, more or less...  or at least they used to.

Yeah. Now it's usually one. The second drops in occasionly. I haven't seen the third in ages. No big loss, really ;)

On the topic of annoying creators, I left a passing post on MTS2 on some celeb sim, saying that the sim was pretty but dissimiliar to the celebrity, and then the creator swoops on me and announces that her work is "objectively" good. Someone has quite a big head...

yes, criticism is definately NOT WELCOME there, even if it is true, or constructive

I find this thread to be very ironic, considering we are posting about meanness of another creator on Pescado's site, who is a self-proclaimed grouch and has been MUCH meaner than that comment was.

Answer to original question: Yes. If I need a hack I download it, despite the social skills of the creator.

I don't find him that mean. He's sort of a grouch in a funny way. Of course, at the beginning I didn't like him much. But repeated exposure has dulled my sensibilities. lol. ;D

I have this hack in my game. I use it all the time. A lot of people have since Dec, 2005. So it is probably just coincidence that the game crashed. Maybe he could have been a little cuddlier in his response, but I'm not going to write off his very useful hacks.

It wouldn't be *cough*ReginaS*cough* would it? :P

Gasp!  A big head?  From a Sims creator?  But they're all so humble, caring more about freely sharing their works than credit to their name.  Clearly you must be talking about some other game.


The quote from Christianluv wasn't mean, just flip and rather pompous, but then again so is just about everyone else who makes just about anything on MTS2 or any major popular Sims 2 download site.  If I based who I downloaded what from on their humility or whether or not their attitude pissed me off, my downloads folder would be sparse.  I don't have to socialize with these people, I just click and go. 

lol. *cough*yeah*cough* :D