More Awesome Than You!

Ok, this has come up in another thread and I've been wondering about it anyway.

I've never been able to stomach the BBS, and the forums I've frequented don't have the real RAGING fear of using debug mode even among those who cannot tell the difference between debug mode and other cheats that happen to be boolean properties, but there's definitely a level of caution even among the more or less well-informed. My interpretation of all that up til now has been to use it only when there wasn't another safe way (i.e. with a reasonably stable mod) to do what I wanted to do, and turn it off immediately after. I don't use the inSimenator because I dislike "kitchen sink" hacks, but I have a number of hacks that can do things that I could also be using debug mode to do.

Around here, however, I also see that there are people who just plain PLAY in debug mode.

Naturally I'm a little confused. I realize a lot of the phobia comes from people doing stupid stuff, being quick to distrust all "non-supported behaviors" and being unable to tell what's safe and what's not or what's really likely to have caused a problem they are having, and other general lack of tech savvy. What I don't know is whether there's a real basis to some of it, i.e. does just having it turned on for long stretches actually cause something to happen invisibly that can cause problems later even outside of debug mode? I'm not up to the level of knowledge yet to know if that's a silly idea or not.

I've never had a problem that wasn't my own doing. I've clicked delete and gone, "Oh shit." But I also save a lot. I don't think it's that scary.

Last time I was on the official BBS, about half of them had the siggy, "91% of all teenagers have tried marijuana. Put this is your siggy if you haven't." So they seem like a little bit of a fear-mongering/gullible crowd.  ::)

OT: 91% is high any activity, let alone an illegal drug. Man, one of these days I'm going to stop being lazy and turn off signatures over there.

oH n000000000000000 b00lPr0P!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111oneoeneoneone

hE1P dA b00LpR0P m3s3D uP mY gAm3!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111111111oneoneoneoneone

Sorry, couldn't resist. I agree that are dumb fucks and I want to slap the shit out of the whole lot of those stupid kids.

BTW someone FROM Maxis (Tom) told us all about it in the first place AND he got permission from the people he worked for to do so.

I certainly would not leave the debug mode enabled while I play, since it breaks on errors instead of just continuing.  Also there is a lot of toys there that are to be used with caution.  You can't just start clicking on everything willy nilly. And I can bet lots of people have.  As you know it's meant to be a testing tool, so it's by no means foolproof.  Since there are a lot of fools out there, the fear mongering is quite justifiable.  Having worked with "users" for years, I know to keep breakables away from their clumsy fingers.  They will find a way to break it.  Sadly, people just aren't that bright it seems.

However if you enable it with a specific (tested) goal in mind, I think it's safe.  I use it to age my babies to toddler.  I turn it off right away afterward.

turning debug mode on won't do anything horrible if you know what you're doing. However, considering that quite a lot of people - especially at the BBS, but also many at the thesims2 LJ, for example, *don't* know what they're doing, it's better to tell them to turn it off. Hell, we're talking about people who can't find their screenshots.

(I often wish I didn't have to be nice to the people at thesims2...)

Nice is overrated. ;)

Empirical evidence has suggested that this is not entirely true: What actually happens is that in the event of an error, without debug mode on, the game automatically takes the default action, generally of resetting the offending object, often invisibly to you, unless it's a sim (whereupon you instead get jumping). Conversely, debug mode will honk at you, ask you what to do, and produce an error log.

If you encounter an error in your game with regards to a downloaded object or hack, this error log is very useful, and if you report an error without it, most of us at this point ask you to make it happen again with debug mode on.

Right, that's my experience as well. All it does is prompt you to decide what to do if there's a problem instead of deciding on it's own to reset. In theory you should be able to run with it on and not get any messages or notice anything different. If you are getting those messages, there's a problem and turning debug mode off doesn't elminate the problem, you just don't get notified about it.

At times I've forgotten and left it on for quite a long time without issue. When I do get a message, I try and track down the problem. I want to know if there is a problem and if there is I try and fix it or eliminate the cause.

Also, some people will make 'dirty' hacks or objects which work, but force or cause errors to do so. I've even seen people acknowledge that if you run with debug mode on you'll get errors (to which I think, well why don't they fix that?). I generally try and get rid of such files.

The testingcheat paranoia is mainly there on the official site because when it was 1st given there was a note that if not use properly it can mess-up the game...  It is normal Maxis mention it to cover their ass, remember that there is a caution on the cup of coffee you buy at MacDonalds saying:  IT IS HOT!  ::)

Now if you are not the type of person that must press on everything even if there is a BIG SIGN next to it saying don't do that, you are better off turning it on when needed only and turn it off after.

Having it on all the time can help when you are experiencing problems so the game will create an error log file that you can then share here so the most knowledgable one can help you fixing your game.

I used it personally mainly to give them job, change their zodiac signs, age Sims and create NPC and townies when I do a delete all characters.  I never encounter a problem.

I used to be a paranoid sheep in the past, I am not anymore.  If you are unusure about what an option is doing better ask about it 1st than learn the hard way.   Here is a link to an old but still good manual explaning what option will do what (does not include new Nightlife and OFB options, I am unsure if it includes the one coming with University ):  http://groups.msn.com/TheSims2Database/yourwebpage.msnw (http://groups.msn.com/TheSims2Database/yourwebpage.msnw)

Moveobjects is more damagable to the game if you leave it at on than the testingcheats.

Heh, I did four years of tech support for a mom and pop ISP. There are NO LIMITS to human stupidity and/or ignorance. People with doctorate degrees will be unable to resist the temptation to screw around with their email settings. -.-

I'm more trying to feel out what is safe usage for someone with a reasonable level of tech savvy.

And yeah, people on the LJ comm get to hear a lot of "move them out of the lot and into a new one" from me because loading it in debug mode or using the Lot Debugger is obviously beyond their capabilities.

(Technically I /don't/ have to be nice to them, since I'm not a mod, but I'm trying to wean myself off the temptation to snark by ignoring the real idiots. I'm also telling myself that it's not worth writing up FAQs or anything, because they WOULDN'T READ THEM ANYWAY.)

I'm with you there, akatonbo.  I used to be so nice to people, tried to help them and explain things to them.  I realize now that it does no good.  People don't even appreciate it.  I'm mostly referring to the BBS.  I gave up trying to explain anything to those kids.  It's too frustrating.  I prefer to discuss things with people who are more like my peers.  I want to learn about the game.  I can't do that there.  It's like being an intermediate user of Windows and buying a Windows for Dummies book and expecting to learn something.  I go through the boards and find so much incorrect information that I wouldn't even know where to start trying to straighten them out.  Then they want to argue with you.  There are so many problems that cannot be solved without using hacks, and that's like a big NO NO on there.  I saw one user tell another, "We aren't supposed to talk about hacks here.  You'll get banned!"  Fortunately someone else straightened them out by saying, "We can talk about hacks, just not illegal cracks and adult stuff."

Anyway, I've been running my game with "boolprop" in my startup file for months now, since right after I got Uni and started learning about the cheat.  It is invaluable to allowing me to play my game the way I want to, and as the others said, I like to know when there is a problem with my game.  I have also run into modders who say, well, if you turn off boolprop, you won't have a problem.  Excuse me?!  Isn't that like saying if you put on a blindfold you won't see that your car is out of gas?  Sometimes it's hard to get an error message after something has occurred, when you don't know what caused it, then the error log is helpful because debug mode was already running.  Also, it is has been invaluable for tracing the problem on why lots won't load or crash on loading.  It allows you to reset or delete the offending object.  You may not actually want to delete the object, but at least the error log will let you know what's keeping the lot from loading.  This was the case right after NL came out and pool lights were getting corrupted on community lots.  It also helped us find out the problem with sims who had been updated to Uni status with the lot debugger who were crashing and losing their want slots when moving into a lot--they had no major set.  Without having debug mode enabled, we would have never known what the problem was.  Since I use it so much, I got tired of entering it all the time and put it in my startup folder.  I never really have a reason to turn it off now.

I play with it on (its in my startup.cheats file) all the time.

I use it for 2 things.

1- seeing when thingsblow up so I can reset/delete them.

2- Killing any sim that pisses me off witha  palgue of flies.

ok, I've rarely bothered turning it on, haven't had any real reason to and I don't know much about it but now I have a question  ;D

Normally my computer kicks ass and I haven't had any real slowdown issues, even on large lots, or small lots with a ton of stuff but now I have a Lot that started getting very very slow after playing it for awhile, I removed some known things for slowing Lots down (fences etc...) but it didn't really make much of a difference.

So I then removed more stuff including some of the waterbeds by LizzieLove siince I thought maybe all the action was the cause of the slowness  - this Lot is a whorehouse and the beds were constantly being "used"

I started out with 6/7 of the beds and now I'm down to 2, I've made the house even smaller (it's now just 3 bedrooms(was 6) with a bathroom and shower room, the kitchen area is outside and sitting off in a corner) and the Lot is still really slow, almost totally unplayable

Any ideas? Could turning on the boolprop testingcheats thing help figure out the cause? I never thought to try anything with the lot debugger (which is funny since I have it sitting in a corner on the lot)

I know I can just move the whores out but then I'll have to start the business all over again and the "boss man" Kenya Sin, dosen't really want to lose all the customer loyalty and perks he has gained   :-\

I also hate moving pregnant sims and atleast 3 *lost track* of the whores are pregnant via risky woohoo  ;)

It couldn't hurt. If you get errors then it could be a hack or object or even poorly designed Maxis 'feature' (aka a bug). If however you turn debug mode on and get no messages, it could be some high poly objects or something else entirely.

At any rate, it's certainly worth a try. I would do it if it were me.

This is why I refuse to go to the BBS. Every time I went there in the past, I left wanting to smash my head against a brick wall. (Which is probably less painful BTW) I've tried being nice to those people over there, but I just got knocked in the teeth for my troubles. Maxis should have an entrance exam for anyone that wants to post in the forums. To weed out the morons. But the forums would be empty then.

As for BoolProp, I rarely even use it. Unless there is something I really need to do.

I am a Boolprop Phobic.  I am too lazy to work out how and when to use it - or even locate it.  That's why I visit here, so that those more awesome than me - and way more knowledgable than me - can keep me informed!  When Maxis revealed the Boolprop 'cheat' I can remember thinking...this sounds like "We can't work out how to fix this game so how about we give the consumer the tools and maybe they can solve it for us."    So on principle - at that time -  I didn't give it a second glance.  Also work and family commitments meant that I never had the time to even look at what it was supposed to do, as I barely had time to even play the game.  Since then, I've relied on others to do the thinking and programming for me.  It's much safer - because everyone knows that Boolprop breaks your game.  :D

ok dokey  ;D   OMG! I hope it's not all the whores custom hair causing the slowdown *dosen't have a clue about how high poly they might be*

I am much the same, or at the very least a very cautious boolprop user. I read just about every thread you guys post and sometimes understand it but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to use it except under limited circumstances. I haven't even worked up the courage to do more with SimPE that some minor stuff in a throw-away neighborhood to teach myself how to use it. I don't want to do something stupid and screw up my game. I know it puts me in the position of being pointed and laughed at but I am just not smart when it comes to programming. At least I'm really good at other non-computer stuff though.

I don't leave the tool on while I play, but I do recall using it in Uni to change lot zoning and had it not been for the amazing awesomeness of the experts here, I'd be staring at my screen instead of building a business because that infamous orb was in most of my homes and the only way to get it out so the lots would load was to use boolprop.

It's not really programming per say, more like troubleshooting or debugging, and of course you can cheat with it too. ;)

At it's most basic, you can just turn it on and do nothing. If you get no error messages, your game should be fine for the most part, or at least you're not getting the dreaded too many iterations or anything like that. If you do get error messages, it will record a log and tell you the name and path of the log file. The log is really long, but you can always post it for others to look at.

My take is, I've seen posts from people who had no hacks, used no cheats and did nothing to a vanilla game and still had serious problems or had their games hosed anyhow, so I say save often and just do what you can. Sometimes cheats can fix a problem and sometimes debug can tell you if there is or narrow down what the problem is if you already know there is one.

It's not going to mess anything to just turn it on. You could probably mess things up with some of the options I suppose (like delete all sims  ;D) but like I said you could do nothing and wham some bug hits (like the people who got hit with the driving to their store with an ownable car bug) and you're game's messed up anyhow. Saving and backing up often is good advice no matter who you do or how you play.

Very good points y'all.  I will reconsider and turn it on while I play for a while anyway, to spot any problems with objects.

I think what put me off leaving it running is once while i had debug mode on, I got an error message on one of my sims.  I had seen the warnings about not using the delete option.  But none of the other options worked.  I had to hit delete to continue.  I wasn't sure of the impact of that, so I exited without saving.  My sim was there when I loaded the game, but after that I didn't leave debug mode on for longer than I had to.

(italics mine)

I don't think that will cause bugs in your game. :D (Well, not unless it's a pregnancy bug, anyway.)

Oh lol too funny. What was I thinking about?  :-[

Anyway, I don't think anyone here is stupid whether you use 'boolprop' or not. At least everyone here is articulate to some degree. ;)

Yeah. Just the fact that the average user here can construct a coherent sentence is a plus. The fact that most of the regulars are also pretty well-educated about the game is a MAJOR plus. I actually learn things here! That mostly stopped happening elsewhere a long time ago.

Sounds like I'll be investigating the actual debug features of debug mode more in the near future. (Possibly some of the cheaty ones too, but my families fall into three categories -- almost no cheats, cheats only if needed, or outrageous cheating to set up the premise but then only if needed.)

*raises hand in the boolprop education class to ask a question*
I'm not clear on this one - could someone who "knows" boolprop clarify -

When a problem comes up with reset / delete - this is my understanding but I'm not sure if it's correct.

Resetting attempts to bypass the problem - "reset" the sim or object having the error
Delete will remove the problem object / sim from the lot. Deleting an object will permanently remove the object from the lot but not from your buy catalog and deleting a sim will remove them from the lot until you reload the load but does not permanently delete the sim from the game. It was also my understanding that after deleting a sim because of a problem, you should save the lot, exit it and then re-enter it.

Yes, that's pretty much it. Delete on an object works like selling the object except you don't get the money. Delete on a sim works like using move objects to delete (they'll be back when you reload the lot). Reset just resets an object or sim to it's original state when there is a problem the game can't resolve. The game will default to reset anytime it runs into a problem if you don't have debug mode on. Whenever you see a sim 'jump' out of doing something, they are being reset.

If you have a hack like InSimenator, you can use the "restore family" option to bring back the deleted sim without reloading.  I a not sure if there is a debug mode equivalent, but there might be somewhere.  If you try to teleport them to the lot, I don't think this will work because they won't appear as a controllable family member.  I try to avoid this though, and I save often and keep backups of my neighborhood folders after every playing session on a backup hard drive.

I found an exception to this--a sim was having trouble with his car, I think because of a bus/carpool jam up, and he was just idling there in the street in his car for two hours. I clicked the car and hit delete, and the sim and the car vanished, never to reappear on reload. Was it the fact that there were two objects? I'll never know. I suck.  ;D

Also, even though I unlinked him from his family on SimPe and made him dead, he still appears in his family loading screen, happily smiling with his old wife and her new husband. He was boring, so I didn't miss him anyway. His wife is old now, so there he still is, all Dorian Gray-ing it up.

Cars are kind of funky and problematic at times. They always have been for me. Like I had the issue where the nannymobile get stuck off screen somewhere or otherwise was invisible and the old bat would move her ass in, had the gardenermobile blink in and out of existence infinitely and spawn a new gardener every time it did etc. :p

I turn it on when something screwy starts happening, so I can get the error message. I usually don't leave it on in normal play, and I don't use features I have no clue about. I do some searching here first, and on the whole, I do prefer stable mods to fix the things that are buggy and/or broken.

There are certain people with specialties anyways. I go crying to Motoki for high-poly adivce and Nanny advice, to Rainbow when I have a more general question, to ZZ when I need help with installing/re-installing, Brynne for picture-taking, Hook for special effects (like dying by flies, lol), Reg for storytelling, etc. (sorry if I left anyone out, it's unintentional), well, you get the picture. And there is always The Big Boss himself. A lot of knowledgeable people here, and I'm not ashamed to take advantage of that.

And then again, you could always defraggle after woolpropping ;)
(sorry, I couldn't resist that one either. It still makes me laugh when I stumble across that thread on the official board)

Nanny advice? Lol I should start a Dear Nanny column.

 Boolpropaholic!
 I use it all the time to cheat ;D I use it to get sims pregnant, age babies, age sims, kill sims, rename sims, add so and so to family (very useful if you have a family that had babies while at UNI) and some other stuff too that I can't think of right now. I don't have Inseminator, but from some of what I've read here the debug cheats do a lot of the same things,  I think. I've never had a problem with using any of the features except the game killing remote control car...

"Ask the Lord of the Nannies!"

Dear Nanny,
Please stop getting bottle after bottle out of the fridge while I'm trying to get to the one you left on the floor halfway across the room.  Also, please come and get me out of this stupid high chair you put me in when I was dead tired and just wanted to go to bed.
Thank You,
The Toddler

Yeah, you should. And then you could use all your "Nanny-Pictures". Oh, I fondly remember your very first Nanny avatar, way back when, but my favorite was the one with the nanny stomped into the ground. I laughed for days, and not even only when I saw it. Earned me some very suspicious looks, LOL.

TaWanda, I use it for name-changing too. I think I would cry if I had to have 'Goopy' or 4 Toshas, 3 Whatevers, and 5 Whatnots ever again. I have nothing especially against Goopy the townie, really. I usually just ignore the more stupid townies anyway, until my cowplant gets hungry that is, but I dislike the name for some reason.  *My apologies if there are any real Goopys out there,  it's just a personal taste matter ;)

Oh how I miss SimPe, then I can once again change the last names too, sigh.

By the way Cabelle, that's how I learned SimPe. I build a throw-away neighborhood and went to town (no pun intended...really). If I messed up really bad, I just came here. Posie has some good advice for SimPe challenged people too, by the way.

Dear Toddler,

That's not a bug, that's a feature.

PS - The Servo robot now also has the same features

LOL Motoki!

Eww, about Servo.  I haven't caved in to getting OFB yet, but Servo was one of the reasons I thought about getting it.  Otherwise, I haven't read anything that makes me want it.

Darn.

I had one come over as a visitor to one of my homes and he did the bazillion bottle thing with the toddler that lives in the house. After the party was over, he didn't leave either and stayed for several days. When I finally did say goodbye to him he left though.

I have read and reread Posie's tutorials and all of the tutorials on the SimPE site and even saved them all to a doc file for constant reference. I'm working up the courage to follow Posie's step by step instructions to fixing Skip Broke's file so his DNA will be passed to his kids (I had Brandi resurrect him and he's happily married to a former Uni student). Sometimes in my case I wonder if I have "SimPE block" like I do with more difficult math. :P Probably in large part because I tend to be a perfectionist and get frustrated when I can't understand something the first time I read it.

Rather than boolprop I've been using Merola's mind control mirror and his multi painting to do some "improvements" on the townies. I get tired of the repeating names too, and the frightening looks they've been given. Makes me really glad for OFB, another way for us to improve the looks of those fugly folks. ;D


 I do back up all the neighborhoods I care about weekly. Learned my lesson the hard way last May when Pleasantview went sideways on me. So I probably shouldn't be such a scaredy cat. I bet if I give myself some patience I'll be able to figure it out. And if I'm confused it's nice to know that I can ask you guys to help me do it right. :)

Quote from this website: http://groups.msn.com/TheSims2Database/yourwebpage.msnw

"If you get any error messages ONLY press Reset, DO NOT press cancel or delete"

I had a reply from one of the Maxoids once, he confirmed that because I clicked 'delete' on a sim, the family was hosed.
Has this changed with later expansion packs? I always click 'reset' now. Luckily, it's never not worked for me.

I've clicked delete before. Most recently with a servo who reset wasn't working for because he was in an infinite loop. I haven't had any problems from it. *shrug*

Okay, I'm not afraid of the boolprop cheat, heck, I've even shortened it up in my startup file but, my game is soooooo darn slow when it's on.  I don't get any error messages so you're saying that it's mainly because of high poly objects?  And the stopping and the sputtering and the jerking but no error messages, that's high poly?  Wow, I never knew that.

Possibly high poly objects. Possibly too many sims on a lot or too much other stuff going on or any number of other things unfortunately. But if you're experiencing slowness that you didn't when you intitially got the game, no errors come up on debug mode, and you download a lot of custom objects without checking their poly counts then it's certainly a place to start looking.

Heck, if the FFS Debugger didn't allow me to reset all on/off world objects then I'd need the boolprop cheat to fix stuck plates in OFB.  Honestly, I probably would be constantly destroying my lots without boolprop or the Debugger.

These are basics, but cancel just doesn't do anything, reset just recreates the thing (Makes a sim "Jump", fixes stuck plates), and delete just gets rid of the offending object/sim.  Kinda like "Abort, Retry, Fail" or something like that.

Sure, there's objects that just don't plain work in boolprop testingcheatsenabled such as the Break Inducer and others that screw with your careers like Tom's Clothing Tester but as long as you are aware that these things can mess up your game it'll be fine.  I'd rather use boolprop then install a file that just emulates boolprop like the InSiminator.  That name of itself reminds me of a TS1 program, but I can't quite remember what it would be.

I don't use maxian townies for the simple reason that they tend to have the same personalities and stuff like that.  I hate how Maxis designs some sims, and if I want a sim to be "homely" then by all means I'll be the one designing them that way.  OFB seems like the only reason to have the townies, but if you can make your own....

a boolprop guide would be a nice thing to see  ;D

Gotta love those wacky "features" and "designs" haha

I have never feared boolprop.  When I first heard about it I was in my game typing it in first chance I got haha.  I'll never understand the phobia of it, when I see people freaking out about it on other sites I just have to laugh (secretly thinking "stupid idiot" :p)

However I once got what was coming to me with it.  Using the clothing tester to dress pregnant sims does cause problems...careers go kahpoot...err something like that.  If you don't believe me, test it yourself  8)  I also once downloaded the clothing tester someone had extracted and put up for download, and it of course caused the same problem (this was before I was smart enough to realize it was the same Maxis made item)  They denied that this had anything to do with the career problem, but that's another story.

Basically it comes down to..test things out on your own risk. If you're not smart enough to figure it out or fear losing something then don't..ultimately you have only yourself to blame, not evil boolprop heh

My question is, why do people use certain hacks when simply using boolprop will do the same thing? (e.g. change personality, etc.)

Because the buttons on the hacks are clearly labelled - no spellings or procedures to remember.

I'll see if I can write a boolprop guide eventually saying what works and what doesn't.  There's a lot of stuff there, so if I did I'd probably start with a summary of the objects, generally what it does, etc.

Tom's clothing tester messes up any of my sims that don't have a job.  Heck, sometimes it made them unemployed.  Good thing that there's alternatives such as Motoki's clothing hack(Not to be confused with JM's, his allows you to buy and use NPC clothing) and the addition of OFB to make using this thing unnecessary.

I don't ever hit cancel when an error comes up because it always causes another error.  It's either 'reset' or 'delete.'  I saw the cheat on an amateur forum and I was never afraid of it, mostly because by the time it had reached the forum, the warning label had fallen off.

I think a lot of it is a level of comfort. As I've gotten more used to using it *and* put aliases in my start-up.cheat file, I use certain hacks less. Also, sometimes I feel more comfortable with certain modders expertise when compared to my lack of it.

I've played with it in my start-up file more or less ever since I bought the original game.  I'm totally used to it now and would hate to be without it.  I suppose I use it most for adjusting motive bars - it's especially useful for that at the moment, with everybody being reset by adding the expansion.  I can check the time, work out what their energy level should really be, and adjust it accordingly.  I'd hate to be without that facility, I take it totally for granted now.  Not that I use it willy-nilly, but in emergencies or to alter bodyclocks or whatever, it's invaluable.  Most of the other things on it I use via the Insim as it's easier.

Erroring and deleting a sim is no more harmful than deleting him with move_objects. He will respawn by the mailbox when you save/exit/reload.

HAPPY 3100TH POST PESCADO!

There.

update on my Lot that got extremely slow.

Simmiecal, reminded me of about the NPC bug, which made me remember that I had cleaned out all the fugly Maxis townies from this hood, not currently using notownieregen since I put in those replacements that should improve the looks of new townies.

Well, this happened to be the first time I played a Lot that would call on some townies, which had to be spawned...so I wondered if they happened to get "stuck" on the Lot or something (certainly never saw any except for possibly 1) There was certainly a lot of new character files in the hood character folder that were "last modified" at the same time I saved the lot and then quit the game last night.

so anyway, I entered the Lot and used Inges teleportershrubplus to "clear off" all visitors right away and the Lot is fine now.  :)  I even added back most of the stuff I had removed including the stone fence and it was still ok  ;D


as for boolprop, I think it's mostly habit that makes people choose "it" or "hacks that do the same thing".

In my case, I found out about hacks first (thanks to a friend of mine who was trying to get me to buy the game) and I have never really known much about boolprop and frankly didn't care because I have my hacks, which are easier for me to remember how to use...ya my memory is usually extremely bad (due to long term illness) Most of the time I don't remember boolprop even exist!!  :P 

Well it really irks me when someone simply takes one of the test objects from debug mode (aka "boolprop"  ::) ) and then posts it as a hack and people hail them as the second coming of Christ. They didn't really make anything and there's no point as far as I can see duplicating something that already exists in the game. Simply turning on debug mode will not cause any problems unless your game has problems to begin with and if it does you should know about it imo. And I'm using you and your collectively here, not aimed at you specifically Sleepycat.

Seriously, it takes all of 2 seconds to type 'boolprop testingcheatsenabled true', shift click on a sim, click more, click spawn, click more, then click the Sim Modder or Badge Juicer etc and then type boolprop 'testingcheatsenabled false' delete the cheat object when you are done or just leave it around. Takes less time to do than it does to download a hack and stick it in your downloads directory.

Love boolprop but there is no way on this earth I would let my kids use it, I let them at it once, (I entered the cheat for them) and they completely and utterly fu&ked the game.  They deleted EVERYTHING in sight, even their own babies..Whatever they did made me realise there should be parental guidance if the parent likes the Sims more than the kids do. ;D. 

The only problem I have with testingcheatsenabled is that if something causes an error, it can start generating an endless loop of error messages that won't go away, and the only way to stop them is to type 'boolprop testingcheatsenabled false' one character at a time, clicking on the error messages between characters.

BoolProp has proved invaluable with frozen sims  and the  marriage action falling out of the to list of Icons in my sim's queue .the game itself generates dozen of error's all by itself that dont efect play.its the errors that effect play I want to see qnd boolprop allows me to see and sometimes correct the error by generating an error log

You may find it easier to spend the time between messages getting to the pause button and clicking it. Once the game is paused the error messages will cease and you can turn off testing cheats without interruption.

Raise my hand!  I second that.  There is a really good one out that I gave a link too in an earlier post but new options from UNI/Nightlife/OFB are not included in it.

There are some options in the testingcheats menu I have not the slittest idea what it is doing, and why do some have a * before it?

I could take notes of the one that give me the most interogations and post them in here.   One thing for sure, if I don't know what it will do, I don't try it or use it so I am probably missing on a lot of good options in there.

I thought Delphy put up some sort of wiki guide about it when Tom first gave out that code. I don't know if it's still there though.

"boolprop" can mess up a game without actually breaking anything.

One way "boolprop" messes up a game is because it's easy to make instant irreversible changes.  When doing things the hard way people have plenty of time to think about what they are doing, change their minds, or stop half way if it isn't working out.  With boolprop it's click click oops!

It can also mess up a game because a lot of the fun is in the travel not the destination. Rushing through all possible objects and interactions and maximising everything leaves no surprises, no goals, and no challenges to be overcome.  What's left is playing with dolls.

A lot of the things do offer a reverse. Like if you make a sim an elder and decide oops I want him as an adult again you can.

As for it 'messing up the game' by cheating, well then so does kaching and motherlode, but I don't hear people freaking out about those. Anyway, there's a cheat for setting family funds so you can reverse that by taking away money if you want now.

Maybe some of like playing with dolls  :D , I'm sure there are as many different ways of playing as there are players. Personally I'm more into mixing genes...just what will this extended family look like after 10 generations of intermarriage, or what happens when I mix descendants of grimmy with descendants of aliens or zombies or what have you. I only play one hood the regular way, the others are for my "experiments" and for those boolprop is a godsend.

Well, if you don't know what the option you're about to use does, you're to stupid to use it.  I know how to use a few, and I hardly use any others.

Not knowing what the options do is nothing to do with stupidity. USING options without knowing what they do, in a neighborhood you want to keep, especially on Sims you want to keep, THAT would be none too bright.

 ???

hell I don't even know what the options are so wow I guess I must be really stupid then  ::)

Do you hardly use those others coz YOU'RE to stupid.

I've messed around with it some, and I've encounted the clothing tester errors, etc. The only thing that continues to hang on because of messing around is on one lot when I clicked that 'group conversation tester' or some sort of thing and now on that lot only I get a pie menu option to *Talk, with the asterisk there, and it doesn't do anything. Otherwise it's been useful enough, but I usually use Insim instead.

After OFB actually I had the testingcheats on and a Sim was abducted - it gave me an error message when he was returning because there was a carpool car waiting, and after clicking Reset, he showed up in the middle of the lot suddenly, with red in energy and hunger. I quickly 'fed' him so he wouldn't die. He never got the abduction memories either. When SimPe is working again, I'll fix that, since he's a knowledge Sim...

Well then that is the case of the user's own stupdity and not the fault of the code.  You can't really blame a cheat on you f'ing up your game now can you?  And unless you turn your game into a fiery ball there's always the exit w/o saving tactic.

Your second 'point' depends on the player.  Everyone plays differently.  Some people like being complete Sim Gods if you will and controlling every single thing.

Now THAT'S good news!

I suspect the fuss about 'cheats' is because the word is negative. People don't like to be accused of cheating.  If 'options' were entered in the 'options window' would anyone give it a second thought?  Why aren't free will and aging off considered cheats?

Some of the reaction is due to the way people write (or read).  If someone writes "You can mess up your game with boolprop" people tend to respond as if "you" refers to them specifically. They give examples of how they didn't mess up their own game using boolprop.  If the author had written "People can mess up their games with boolprop" I don't think there would be any argument.

You couldn't get me into the BBS for a million bucks. I mean, I'm stupid, but they are stupid with a side of *retarded child waving* and a bit of *autism child staring blankly* all mixed together to become... the typical BBS'er.

Other than patches, no sims 2 site for me... noooo... *shudders*

Welll...for a MILLION dollars...I think I could put up with the BBS for a little while.  ;)  I guess it depends on how long I'd have to stay.

Hey, for a million of these green things that have a nasty habit of starting wars, you can get yourself a VAST supply of Prozacs. Always Look At The Bright Side Of Life, as Brian would've quoted!

Man, for a million dollars, I would agree to moderate the damn thing.   :D *Delete, delete, delete*

For a million bucks I would let Coolone come to my house and use my computer to post ont he BBS.

Interesting, Motoki.  So how do I check for poly counts, and what's considered high?

There should be a tutorial for how to check the counts in the Peasantry section. I believe Batron did it. I'm not sure if it's on the first page or not anymore but it still should be there.

It's in my startup file, as well. Those damn pool lights...without debug mode enabled, I never would get into the lots. I'd have to ctrl/alt/delete out of the game. That's at least one situation where it's very handy to have the cheat running all the time. It's a pain, though, when you get a "too many iterations" error or something while the cinematic is playing. You have to guess at where the "reset" button would be if it was on your freaking screen.

I ain't 'fraid of no debug mode, though. Just use some common sense. If you don't understand a function, don't use it!

It's also old news.  It's been introduced with Nightlife :)   familyFunds familyname amount
It's here http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=2216.0

Thanks, Motoki and angelyne for pointing me to the thread on poly counts.  I hardly download any CC (that's not in this forum) but it's good to know where to go for info.

D'oh!  :-[

I just don't like it, because sometimes you get error messages over and over again with certain hacks (even if it isn't a real problem) that just keep recurring, so that you can't play anymore, even to get out of the testing cheats mode.

If I have that problem, which isn't often, I will hit cancel with my finger on the pause button, and once I get it paused, then I can see what sim is having the problem, make a note of the error, cancel the action or reset the sim, whatever takes care of the problem, then come here and report the issue with the appropriate log.  Then if the issue is with someone's mod here, they can work on fixing it.  I don't believe in whitewashing problems.  For the same reason, I turn off automatic rebooting when there is an error in Windows.  If there's a problem, I want to know about it, dammit!  Ignorance is not bliss. 

But that's just it. It is a real problem. If a hack is causing that, even if you don't notice it with debug mode turned off, the hack is 'dirty' and not coded properly. If the hack were made properly, it should NOT be causing any errors even with debug mode turned on. Don't like any lazy hack creators tell you otherwise, if you're getting errors, the didn't code it properly, at best it's ineffecient, at worst it could cause trouble down the line.

Oh, I saw this on the BBS today and thought of this thread immediately. I was going to post the quote, but I thought it better to just do a screencap and post it in technicolor. (see attachment)

[404'ed!]

Yeah, that person is either stupid, ignorant, or both.  That just shows the common theme over there at the BBS, and why I can't stand it for longer than two minutes.

Boolpropfool just about sums it up.

Next time hit the pause button really fast  ;)

Agreed, and agreed. It's a shame that the real advice, and the helpful people who know what they are talking about are buried deeply in the official board. Even using search brings up the crap first. Idiotic advice, even if it sounds highly illogical, is usually followed by "thank you" notes from people who don't seem to be able to logically follow through and realize that the adivice is highly suspect.

Yes, and they get benes too. Don't forget the benes!

On a semi-related note (idiots), MTS2 irritates the shit out of me sometimes too. I've seen numerous times and have even had to say it myself there at one point, where content creators have to say 'Okay guys, the thanks are nice but I really need some feedback on how this is working'. They have the thank you button there so there is no excuse, but they all do 'Thanks' 'Great' 'Thanks' 'Awesome' 'You rock' 'Thanks' 'This is so great' and most of them post spam like that before they even have tried the damned thing.  ::)

It's annoying for the creators to sift through all the spam replies when looking for genuine feedback and it's annoying for me as a user when I want to see if anyone else is reporting having problems with a new hack that's been posted.

I agree with ya on that part (over at MTS2).  Trying to wade through 5+ pages of "Thank you" when looking for additional information, notes, (or in the rare times it happens) other people's post about what they've experienced that's wrong with the item, is annoying at best.

Wish the mods would clamp down on enforcing the use of the thank you button.  I mean..that's what it's there for.

On a side-note and totally OT, Motoki, I'd sent you a PM yesterday.  Was curious if you'd gotten it or not.

C'mon now, if there weren't sites like the BBS, where would people like me go for a really good belly laugh.  Methinks you need to see the humour in their retarded, idiotic comments; and think of this, if they didn't have the BBS, does that mean they would have to find another site??  And which site would that be..I shudder to think.  No-one would be safe from assholes like FCL, sorry, Coolone, oh wrong again; Old Man... ;)

We are of the same mind on this, Motoki.  I'm not a creator, but I do try to give creative and useful feedback.  I hate having to wade through all the Thank yous and worse, the over colorized posts and smiley spam.  I worry that my feedback or actual problem will get lost and not even been seen by the creator.  Monique seems pretty good about responding as do some others, but I know of a few who I reported problems to who never ever responded.  And it's a real shame too. 

I don't have a problem with the testing cheats, tho I don't just leave it on all the time. Guess I have a 'clean up' thing. I always turn off everything I'm not actively using, including deleting aspiration rewards the minute I'm done with them on the rare occasions I use them. I just don't like clutter on the computer (in my house is a whole 'nother story).

But I don't get this ' if you don't know what it is, leave it alone' thing. If I don't know what something does, I click on it immediately to find out. I guess that's how I learned to use programs to start with (when I went to school there weren't no such thing and 'round my neck of the woods, manuals are for wusses - only to be resorted to in major desperation.)

When I got the game, I found out all the codes I could and clicked on everything (along with going through all the menu options I could find and trying as much as I could) and I do the same thing with each new EP, including opening all the codes I know and clicking on all the new menu items I can find.

<shrug> I play a test neighborhood first tho, so I'm not really taking chances on sims I care about and (despite popular belief) there's very little on computers that's not undoable or fixable one way or another. I dunno where people got the idea their computers were so fragile. Must be that bomb graphic. Or maybe it's a PC thing, as at base I'm a mac user.

I think the key phrase there is "I play a test neighborhood first tho, so I'm not really taking chances on sims I care about."

Although I don't always follow this advice, I do keep regular backups.  I hit something one time using boolprop and it spawned all these sims and slowed the game to a crawl.  I exited the house without saving, but when I went back something was messed up, I forget what it was.  So I restored my backup neighborhood and went from there.  I remember not to push that particular button again.  :D

But where's the fun if you don't take some chances sometimes?  You'll never learn anything if you don't.  Of course, sometimes it takes a bit of common sense like knowing when and where to take chances, but having a backup is always a good idea.

BoolProp Phobia is rampant over at the BBS for sure :P But on the bright side that seems to be one of the only sites that runs in absolute terror at the mere mention of "Boolprop"
  I rarely leave feedback for creator's at MTS2 because the "thank You" Spam is overwhelming and I am afraid feedback would be totally unseen at MTS2.I spent literally 30 min's or more searching for the answer to  the Question "does lot full of sims" work in OFB ?from the creator Doc Doofus it took that long to get through the thankyou's and awesome posts to see what he/she had to say on whether or not the hack works in OFB.
  the answer for all those who use the mod is Yes it does work ! "the BBS is much the same when trying to ferret out useful info you have to wade past the "bene's" posts and the Oh No "boolprop"kills the game posts. and the you need a new computer posts :P

Of course, we know the answer to all life's problems is buying a new computer.   ::)

Isn't it?  :P

good to know the lot full of sims works in OFB Bangelnuts, otherwise all of my current playable lots would be useless.

Still waiting on OFB. Have paid 'n all. Sposed to be here on 9th. Now it's nearly 13th - (well it will be in about 35 minutes).  >:( :'(

Exactly - that's how people learn.  Well, it's how I learn anyway.  If I don't know what it is, poke it.  You generally can't mess up computer programmes too much (unless you have a major poke about) and, as Rainbow says, if you're going to do this, back up first.  And then you can always reinstall if you really bugger it up.

Trouble is, you don't always know when something is stuffed, sometimes you go on playing for a while before anything bad happens. I think I was one of the early ones to use Tom's Clothing Tester, It took me ages to figure out the career stuffups were connected to the clothing tester.

Mind you, it hasn't put me off debug mode, I just do what everyone else does and have a test hood.

Really? Whatever happened to 42?!

I admit I haven't tried that one myself.  I have had the 'I wonder what that does?' thought though.

That's the answer to life, the universe, and everything.  Has nothing to do with life's problems.  ;)

I played with that one a few months ago, and realised a few hours later that Christy Stratton was completely invisible and unselectable.  It was fun trying to figure out how to turn an invisible townie back into a visible sim, I did fix it though with a combination of the TL&D and lots of trial and errors.  I scrapped that hood shortly after nightlife came out so didn't notice any career problems.

Don't forget your Towel!

Auuuggghhh!!!

j/k ;)

I've yet to see that phrase written in a friendly and reassuring way...

What on Earth do you mean? It's written in large friendly red letters...

Let's just say it affected me more than the caffeine I'm greedily consuming to try to wake up! Research can be soooooooooo boring sometimes! Thank the gods for MATY! Now where's my bloody coffee...?

*Flowerchile serves coffee for all*

Thanks, I really needed that, flowerchile!

Red is the universal WARNING color...thus my reaction above.  :)

More coffee anyone?? ;D

Hell yeah, preferably served with an IV kit! The bugger takes AGES to get absorbed and redistributed by the gastrointestinal tract! Or so it seems to me...!

One coffee and one IV kit coming up,  I hope you don't take milk, it may clog the tubes.. ???

Bah, all the years of consuming gyro and pita and alcohol have rendered my vessels immune to clogging!

If that's the case, do you have any vessels left?

I'm replying, which means I'm able of coherent thinking and acting. Which means I'm alive. Which means blood is still surging through my veins. Dunno, I guess I have a couple of'em left... And hey, gyro and pita is MUCH healthier than McDonald's (and American fast food in general) crap!

You're making me hungry over here!!!  :P

SUPERSIZE ME...Isn't that the Macca's way..  Give me pitta over them anytime.Would you like fries with that?

MMMMMMM...foood...*flowerchile gets in her car; off  to Maccas*  I can't resist that greasy shit!! ;D
(How ironic that Supersize me is on TV at this very moment!)  You guys want something?

Yeah, surprise me.

Do  ya like salad with M&M's sprinkled on top?  Thats what I got ya!  SURPRISE.. ;D

Just returned from the Uni eatery. Fried chicken with macaronis sprinkled with "kefalotyri". I won't explain what that is, go find it under "Cheese"! Oh, and tomato salad, plain tomato-onion-cumuber salad with olive oil and oregano. No feta...damn!

This is a bit more reassuring.

Yeah, it is more reassuring.  :D Is that a screenshot from the movie?

I chose the "large friendly red letters" 'cos I'm pretty sure that's how it was described in the book itself. Unless my MIDDLE-AGED memory is failing me.

PS Trouble with coffee is by the time it kicks in, I'm over the need and usually ready to sleep.  :-\

Hmm, well, the file is corrupt, not to mention irrelevant, but you know what is reassuring?

A calm statement saying, "Citizens are advised to run, panic, loot."

Only reassuring to you JM!

Terrifying to us sane citizens.

I dl'ed it from their website.  Tried to attach a jpg but couldn't.  I'm not extremely internet friendly, though.  ;)

We were hijacking the thread here, JM.  The answer 42 is from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.