More Awesome Than You!

Is it possible to have two versions of the game on your PC?

What I would like to do is have a NL version and mods on my PC and then have another version which I update with OFB. The neighborhoods would be kept separate - never expect to update the NL neighborhoods for OFB.  Can't I just copy what's in the C:/Programs File into another directory and then have the executable point to that directory? This sounds way too easy, so I'm guessing that the answer must be no, but does anyone know of a way to have two versions on the same PC?

The only way I can think of is to have two operating systems installed and have a game install for each. I don't actually know of any program that can be installed more than once if it has to have registry entries.

The only way to do this is to have different registry files, and import those on demand.

Your NL registry file should not contain any references to OFB (export the TS2 strings before installing OFB).
You will also need to change your 'my documents' folder for OFB -- fortunately this is also a registry setting.

It is possible, but difficult. Having two different platforms (different OSs or different PCs) is probably easier.

Why can't you just make a new user ID?

I can do that if I want to keep downloads and/or neighborhoods separate, but each user ID, while having it's own "My documents-Sims 2" folders, when you run the game (regardless of XP user ID) it will use the files in the C:\Programs section.

Meh. I guess I have to keep praying to the kitten killer god and offering sacrifices.   :P

That's what I plan on doing.  I have the game on both my desktop and my laptop, and I only play the laptop version when I'm away from home and bored, so I don't have as much time or interest invested in the characters as I do on my main system.  So I'm going to install OFB on the laptop and see what it breaks, and then wait for fixes/updates before updating my main game.

If you do what I did, and create a network, you could then run two base units, one for each version of the game, using a KVM switch to switch between the two.  While it wouldn't be cheap, it would save the cost of a new monitor and other peripherals.

That's what I do.  :)

Just very wire-intensive!

Or partition the hard drive if you have the space...

Could you run a second version on a second hard drive, I wonder?  (You could with sims1, but I don't know about sims2).

Of course you can. :)  But if you don't have a second hard drive to dual-boot with, and lack the cash to buy extra hardware then formatting the existing drive into partitions will work just as well.

Well, in my case, I have two hard drives, but I don't know how to install the game on the second one, or how to run it from there. 

As it is, I have a 2nd HD which is twice the size of my main one, so it has loads of space.  (My system was built by a non-simmer.......)  However, my main drive is beginning to get a bit full!

Do you have both hard drives installed in your machine with an operating system on both?

No, the second one was installed for storage.  (Like I need 140 GB of storage....)  Basically, they were installed the wrong way round, but since it was all done as a favour, I couldn't really complain.

For the drive to be used as storage it should have an operating system installed.  I know that some OS's can't see others, for example I used to dual boot 98/XP and could see the 98 partition from within XP but not vice versa. 

Is your second drive a removable storage device or something?  You should see two operating systems listed after POST (the beep after powering up the macine) if both drives have been set up properly.  Though I do remember having a problem once where the one XP drive wasn't showing itself, that was a problem with an IDE cable though.  It could possibly be something to do with the Master/Slave setup which is out of my department (hubby is hardware guy lol). 

If it's not a removeable storage device then you could try checking the drives in BIOS.  If the second drive isn't showing in there that is where the problem solving begins.  How do you know they were installed the wrong way around?  Did he install 98 After XP or something?

Oh, they both show up.  What I meant was, I'd have preferred a larger main drive and a smaller one for storage.  I think he mainly does systems for small businesses, and I imagine they use a lot more storage than I need. 

I know there's something not right though - I can't move anything on the second HD by drag/drop, only copy it.  If I want to move it, I have to use the Windows Explorer option.

To be honest, the system was set up in a way I wouldn't have done it if I'd known more about it then, but I don't know how to change it. 

One reason why 98 can't read XP's partition is probably because the XP partition is formatted with NTFS while the 98 partition is formatted with FAT32.  Only XP, NT, and 2000 can read NTFS from Windows OSes.  Pretty much everything can read FAT32.

I've got Windows 2000 and ME installed on my other computer at the same time and there doesn't seem to be any problems.  When I installed 2000 there was an option to install a new OS instead of "upgrading" ME and that causes you to run two.  I have no idea about installing other OSes together though.

In my case it was because I installed XP as NTFS, but you do have the option to install XP Home as FAT32.  It seems like an age since I last used 98.

Zephyr

When I ask if they both show up I mean prior to entering the operating system.  On my system it will pause for a bit to give me the option to enter either drive, this option can be hidden though I think.  Even if the other drive isn't the primary or at least the first OS booted, you should still be able to use it just the same as the current primary.   If I had your machine here in front of me I'd be able to get you into it but my explaining skills are inadequate at best :(

Question:  Are you using XP?  If so then you might be able to change the boot options easily enough, or even check they are set up for access to the second drive. 

If you right-click on My Computer, click Properties and then click on the Advanced tab.  Click on Startup & Recovery and at the top you should see a drop down box with more than one operating system.  Check the 'Time to Display list of Operating Systems' is ticked and at 30 seconds.  This will give you more time to see the options at startup.  The drive you are booting into currently will probably be the one on top at startup.

Please if anyone can explain this better hop in at any time.

Yes, it's set at 30 seconds.

The highlighted operating system in the drop down box is the current one loaded I think, the name of the other operating system should be in there too.

Next time you restart your pc check that both those operating systems show up before windows loads.  It will be a blackscreen with the two OS's and the clock counting down.  If they are both there you can choose which to load by using the arrows and hitting enter, once you are in you can setup that OS anyway you like and install whatever.  But it will likely be out of date for patches and anti-virus so they would be the first ports of call.  If they are not both there it would be best to ask your friend to come over and help troubleshoot.  Just tell him you want to dual boot and can't access the second drive.  Otherwise wait until you are ready for a format and have him walk through the whole setup and usage of dual booting and OS installation with you.  It's really quite easy now.

Well, he's not so much MY friend, he's my friend's partner, and he runs a computer business, so I don't really like to ask him unless he's upgrading for me or I have a problem with some hardware.

However, I don't know if this makes sense, but I don't think it has a separate operating system - I think everything runs off the same one.  Which means, it doesn't have it's own registry, I think.

I'm not sure that it's possible to spread the one operating system across both drives, not that I'm saying this isn't the case, just that I'm not aware that it can be done - I'd be interested in reading about this if anyone has links :D.  If there isn't more than one option in that drop down box in 'Startup & Recovery' I don't know what else to suggest. 

I suppose there must be something.  The drive is shown as 149 GB, so I imagine there's something there, but what I don't know.  What I did wonder, though, also, was whether I could move my My Documents folder over to Drive E and whether, if I did, the game would be able to access it.   That would save me an enormous amount of space on the main drive.

Still can't understand why I can't drag and drop, though!  It's really annoying when I forget and do it, and end up with files all over the place!

Perhaps limited priveledges on the other drive prevent you from making too many changes.  I don't think it would be a good idea to move My Docs over to the other drive, besides I think it would probably only create a shortcut, though no-doubt there is some sort of trick to getting around that.  I think if you moved the EA games folder like that the game would not be able to find itself anyway. 

Just a thought - I know with Sims 1 as long as the registry entries were there, you could run a second version of the game on the second drive, but obviously TS2 is much more complicated!

I think part of the problem may be that when Tim set up the system, he may have become the Network Manager!

I'm trying to work out how that would be done, but haven't a clue.  I'm totally lost.

You can use a secondary hard drive without having an operating system installed on it.  It just becomes additional storage space with a new drive letter.  However, it's recommended that your OS be installed on your newer drive for a couple of reasons, one is that the newer drives are usually faster due to newer technology, and second, the newer drive would theoretically be more reliable for your OS.  To do so would require reinstalling Windows on the new drive, but first, the drive would have to be set up so that the computer can boot from it.  This would require making changes in the BIOS and/or changing the way the hard drives are connected inside the computer.  This is why a lot of people end up just plugging in a new hard drive as a secondary drive, but it's not the best situation.  I'd recommend that the next time you reinstall Windows, you set it up on the new drive.  That's what I did.

I don't understand what problems you're having ZZ, because you should be able to use the drive just like any other drive.  What do you mean about having files all over the place?  The only thing I can think of is that the default behavior when using the mouse to drag and drop files within the same drive is to "move," meaning the file is no longer at the original location, it is moved to the new location and deleted from the old.  When using the mouse to drag files on different drives, the default action is to "copy," meaning the original file is left as is, and a copy is created at the destination.  There are a few ways to work around this.  You can drag files with the right mouse button so that you get a menu to choose to move or copy, you can hold down the Ctrl key as you drag with the left mouse button, or you can select the files and press Ctrl+X on your keyboard to Cut, then press Ctrl+V at your destination to Paste.  That is, if I'm understanding your problem at all correctly. 

Moving the "My Documents" folder should be no problem.  There is an option to do this so that all your registry entries are updated when you do it.  On your desktop, right-click on the My Documents folder, and select Properties.  There is a button labeled "Move..."  Click that, and you'll be presented with a dialog box to chose the new location.  After doing this, it will ask you if you'd like to move all the contents of the old folder to the new folder, or if you want to do this yourself.  I recommend letting it do it for you.  That's all there is to it.  I always run my My Documents folder from my D partition, which is bigger and I've done it that way for years because of various reasons, even before Windows provided an easy way to do it.  Earlier versions of Windows required more work, but it was doable.  I have my hard drive divided into different drive partitions, but that's another story.

Anyway, I hope I've been of some help.  Let me know if you have questions or if something wasn't clear, and I'll try to clarify it.

Thanks Rainbow, I never knew a second drive could be used in that way without the OS installed.  My newer (and larger) hard drive is the master and I always install the OS on both drives after a format because dual-booting is the only thing I ever learned to do, it took me hours of searching the web to even put a name to what it was I wanted to do.  Learning about this 'new' way of gaining extra storage is making me sit back and re-consider how I do things though .  I have a format of both drives coming up in a month or so (lotsa upgrades, yay!) I need to weigh the pros and cons of my 'old' way versus your 'new' way. 

I'll probably end up doing things the old way simply because I like having the second OS installed.  It's useful for installing the same game twice on the same system at the same time, unless you know another better way to do that too? 

My brother-in-law recommended having Windows set up on a secondary hard drive simply for the reason that it gives you a way in to fix things if something messes up your original Windows installation.  The only thing is that Windows takes up so much room.  I have it set up this way though on my gaming computer, and it actually came in handy once.  I don't have it set up on my work computer though because I only have one physical hard drive, and there isn't enough room on it for me to make a second partition and install Windows on it.  So I cross my fingers and hope for the best.   :-\

The only way I know to have more than one installation of the Sims is to have a multiple OS system as you describe or two computers.  It won't let you have more than one under the same Windows installation.  The only other way I can think of is through a virtual computer but the program is expensive and didn't work very well in my experience or the experience of others I've talked to.

It is very useful under circumstances like that, I've been able to retrieve data from a messed up drive using the other drive and send it through the network to the hubby's system for backup so I could reinstall without losing anything.  It also came in very handy when I upgraded to 1 GB Ram, back when I had 98 on the primary.  98 took offense to the ram and I had to use the xp drive to find workaround solutions to get 98 working with that amount of ram.  I still have the instructions for changing the startup file around somewhere.

Thanks, Rainbow and Miramis, for all the advice.  Yes, my second HD is as you say, Rainbow, merely somewhere to put stuff.  However, the reason it's the larger is that it was part of my original system that Tim built before he upgraded it.   Not much older, but even a few months makes a difference. 

Now, as to drag and drop - it works fine on the main HD, but as I said, on the secondary one, it will only copy, not move.  (which is why I end up with files "all over the place" if I forget to delete the original.)  When I right-click I don't get a move option, merely Send To.

Moving My Documents will save a lot of space for me (I hate it when I get well below 50%, it seems to slow everything down) so I think I'll try that.

I guess it's about time, really, that I did do a complete system restore, as thanks to Microsoft SP2 I have about fifty locked restore points clogging up my system that I can't access (Supposedly removed SP2, but nothing actually went!) so I can't even restore to the day before I finally succumbed and installed the darn thing.  When it didn't do the one thing I'd been told it possibly would, I thought right, why do I need all this extra baggage, but couldn't get rid of it!  So a complete reinstall and then being careful what updates I actually get should help a lot.  Trouble with automatic updates is it will download everything, whether you want it or need it, or not, and then, if you choose not to install some things, they still remain somewhere in case you change your mind!

I've always been wary of reinstalling, though, as I'm terrified it will somehow do both HDs at once!

Well, like I said, that's really not a bug, it's how it was designed when moving files from one drive to another.  Try dragging the files with the right mouse button, just as you would with the left.  Don't just right click on them.  I think that must be what you are doing to get the Send To option.  Just click on the files you want to move, hold down the right mouse button, and drag them.   When you have the mouse positioned where you want the files to go, release the right mouse button, and you should see a menu pop up with options like Move, Copy, etc.
It's understandable to be scared, but it will only format the drive you are installing Windows to.  It will ask you several times if you are really sure!  Just make sure there are no files you want to keep on that drive.  I always make a Backup folder on my secondary hard drive and copy things I want to save like Bookmarks/Favorites, documents on the desktop, program settings, etc.  It would be a good time to switch drives if you want to, but I suggest getting someone to help you do this since it's rather complicated, especially if you don't know what you're doing.  You may have to change BIOS settings or settings on the hard drives to do this, but it was worth it to me. 

I've learned a good bit about computers over the years, and I am continuing to learn, but my brother-in-law is an invaluable resource to me in fixing my computers when things go wrong.

Well, I'm wary of the favourites issue - I thought when I had the upgrade that I'd backed them all up, but they were missing when I got the PC back!  I might be safer to copy them over to the other PC too.

I'll try your suggestion about right-clicking and see if I can get it to work!

If I were to switch drives, there wouldn't be room on the main one to back everything up, and unfortunately I only have a DVD drive on the other PC!  But if I move My Documents, that will save  about 10GB+ which will make a huge difference!

I shall no doubt put off reinstalling Windows yet again......

It is very easy, and quite safe, to move the 'My Documents' folder to a different drive.  In fact, it can be done right on the desktop.  Right-click on the 'My Documents' shortcut, and bring up 'Properties'.  You'll see that the location of the My Docs folder can be browsed and re-set to wherever you want it to be.  Choose the new location; the computer will ask you if you want to move all your data from the old location to the new one.  Click 'ok' and there you go -- everything's been moved to the new place.  And yes, Sims 2 will find the folder automatically, and will run just fine, and you won't even need to re-install Sims.

Well, if you're REALLY paranoid about accidentally formatting both HDs at once, you can do the very simple, absolutely sure thing, and physically disconnect the drive you don't want to be touched, and then set the remaining drive as the master.  Or, if that's a bit daunting, you can simply disable the HD you don't want touched, by going into the BIOS and selecting that drive, and choosing 'Not Installed', until you're finished with your rebuild and ready for the drive to be available again.

And yes, I've used both methods, several times.  I usually wind up rebuilding my entire system from completely shredded hard drives, about two or three times a year, just because I get bored.  ;-)

Tammy

ETA:  One of these days, I'm going to learn to read ALL of the messages before posting, and learn to combine replies.  Yeah.

Thank you, MS TAmany.   Actually, Rainbow already explained it to me, but it's nice to have confirmation.

As to disconnecting the HDs, I think I'll wait and get Tim to do it for me!  I'm physically not able to do much about what goes on inside my computer case these days.

Oh, that's a shame, ZZ.  It can be rather fun poking around in the innards of your computer.  ;-)

I'm glad that my confirmations were helpful.  Reading this thread has made me get that itchy-palms feeling again; making me consider doing another rebuild.  Of course, it's barely been a month since my last one, so I think I should probably wait.  If I sit on the urge long enough, it'll pass.  There are no glaring bugs or problems that require a rebuild, after all.

Tammy

Afraid it's one of the trials of getting older and having to put up with things like arthritic joints!  But I do need to swop my existing CD Rom drive for DVD one so I can get around to making proper back-ups of important stuff, so maybe when the weather's a bit better I'll ask him to do that, and while he's doing it to help me with the reinstall.  But only if I'm sure my favourites are safe - it was such a pain when I lost them all before!

Do you use IE ZZ?  If so, all you have to do to save your favorites is to copy the Favorites folder to a safe place on your other drive.  It's usually found here: 

C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName\Favorites

I once lost all my favorites because I thought I had gone through everything on my hard drive and saved everything, but that was one thing I forgot!  :(  I never forgot again, just as I'm sure you won't either!  I have done it so much now that I have a list that I print out of stuff to back up when reformatting my computer, with a backup copy on my Palm.  I'm probably due for a reinstall, but there are no major problems right now.  I hate doing it now because it's so boring to have to go through and install all my programs again and get them configured just how I want them again.

Yeah, see, if I could figure out how to identify and export ONLY CERTAIN registry keys, then I'd be all set -- I could keep my programs installed on a different drive from C:, and when I re-install the OS again, I could just merge the tiny little .reg files into the system registry, and all my programs would still be set up the way *I* want them!  Ahhh, the time that would save!  But, as brave and foolhardy I can be about fiddling with my registry (after all, a full shred/install can be a FUN way to spend the weekend), I have not yet learned how to identify ALL the keys needed for the various programs.  <massive sigh>

Tammy

I installed the game on my secondary HD this last time, and it works fine. All I did was make a Program Files folder, and then EA Games inside that, and then you have to make individual folders for the game, and whatever EPs you have. When you reinstall the game, you get the option to install elsewhere. Simply browse to the correct folder for whichever it is, and install it there. I am not sure if you have to make a new Program Files folder. I just did that because it seemed like the right thing to do. The important thing is to create the game folders because if you do not install to the default location, it will not create an EA Games folder or a game folder. The icons will show up on the desktop as normal. ;D

rainbow: Thanks for posting that about moving the My Documents folder. I had no idea you could do that! this will make my game run much better I am sure! my main HD is a 60G ATA (older) and my new one is an 80G SATA -fast as hell. I love it!  Now it won't have to search both drives while I am playing. Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

Nec, do you mean I can do it although I only have the system installed on the main drive?  (I know I could do that with sims1, I could run as many copies of diffrent versions there as I wanted, but it seems a lot more complicated with sims2.)  It would be great if I could do that, then I could run OFB with NL and no Uni if I wanted - I have a feeling that all the EPs together would become unmanageable for me!

And my other PC only has 512 MB of RAM, so it really only plays sims2 on its own properly.

Yeah , you don't have to install another system. Even though you install the game on your secondary HD it will show up in your add/remove programs list on your main drive. You just want it on your other drive because it has more space, right? Or do you mean install TS2, OFB & NL on one drive and TS2, Uni, &NL on the other?

I have no idea about installing it in two different locations, though it might work. - since the paths to the game files would be different for each installation. Then again, it may blow up your computer. I may try that just to see if it works sometime soon.

I did actually mean two installations - it used to work with sims1 because you could make a vanilla base game which would run from the same registry entry as the main game.  You could then add EPs to either the main game or the vanilla game.  If you wanted to add to both, I think you basically just copied the files over, but it's a while since I did it and I'm not too sure now.  Then, any copy you had on your 2nd HD could be loaded from the shortcut within the game folder, or from the programs list.  And if one game had MM as the last EP, and the other had, say, SS, you could just have both shortcuts on the desktop.  (I think that's how it worked anyway!)

Ah, ok. I have no idea about that. That's cool that you could do that with the Sims 1. I have never played it, really. That would be rather handy to do though. I have no intention of getting OFB right now since I am still really happy with Uni and NL, but when I get bored enough with the game to get it I would like to have that option because I just don't think my pc would be happy with 3 expansions at the same time either :-\

After I finish my custom neighborhood, I will burn my files and then test it out. I want to do a new install of the game soon anyway, and will post the results - unless someone else does it first. I am pretty close to done, so it shouldn't be too long.

Great!  All new information is gratefully received by everyone here!

Actually, I rather feel that  even if I had a really powerful PC that could cope with anything thrown at it, that I would still rather not have both OFB and Uni in the same game - it would just take forever to play!  Even if it means doig without some of the Uni objects, I think there'd probably be enough new ones to compensate.

Thanks for this information Tammy, I had no idea this could be done!