More Awesome Than You!

(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/kandiedkate/MTS2_KandiedKate_967801_Eyebags2.jpg)

I've tried every combination I can think of - sims I downloaded because according to pics they made cute babes, male/female clones of eachother, so many combinations of face templates from a few different creators... All of this done before and after each of the following - removing face templates, hacks and mods, removing ALL custom content... Saved sims, all those miscellaneous files at the end of the My Docs/Sims 2 folder and thumbnails. Oh and re-installing!!!

My machine is new (Vista), 3GB Ram, 250 Memory, AMD Turion Duel-Core RM-70, Nvidia Geforce 8200M G...

Sim detail is on high, texture as well.

My game is not legal. I've used torrents for every game (http://www.mininova.org/tor/2050375 - fyi). I've had troubles getting the patch included for Freetime to work. I thought about that too.

So, there's all the info I can think to give you. Please help... this does not seem like a usual problem at all.

Looks normal to me.

I included the wrong picture - Sorry.

(http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/kandiedkate/MTS2_KandiedKate_968926_BagsCheck.jpg)

You said you tried removing all custom content, but those look like non-Maxis default skins.  Sure it isn't a default skins issue?

Those aren't defaults. Those are custom.

If you look really hard in the first picture, you can see that the texture above and below the eye is stretched. I took that pic directly after re-installing the game and only that piece one of eyeliner was in my downloads folder. I put it in to show the stretched quality since maxis skins have no difference in tone above or below the eye. What you see in the second set is exactly what happens all the time - noticable because there is detail around the eye.

I use the download organizer so I'm pretty sure I don't have conflicting defaults of any type. And like I said... if the first try after reinstalling showed broken-ness, it can't bee a CC issue, right?

Then you didn't remove all cc did you?  It looks like an issue that a lot of custom "realistic" skins have.  Dontcha know it can't be realistic without eyebags and a skin disease.

Um... I'm pretty sure you can remove it all... uh... test things out to make sure it's not a CC issue and the magically reinstall it all later, right?

Like I said I did.

*EDIT* Maybe I should link to this thread  (http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?p=2728699#post2728699) it's got some info on that second picture.

Yes. Backing up the Downloads folder is as easy as moving the Downloads folder located in Documents\EA Games\The Sims2... to your desktop (the game won't read from it there).

Fire up your game and recheck your game.

If the issue is gone, your problem is a poorly made custom skin, which I'm willing to bet on.

After you've made that verification, you can hunt down the offending skin package in your Downloads folder and remove it if you wish. You can also put the folder back into the Sims 2 folder before or after you've done this so that you can continue using the rest of your CC.

I'm pretty damn sure it's not a CC issue since even reinstalling and running it pure doesn't fix it. You may not be able to tell by that first picture, but I can - from seeing it in game.

The picture of the four foreheads was the result of breeding two sims. This is what I posted at MTS:

"Maybe someone can try this out with me. I'll download 2 sims from the same creator. The only custom content in my game will be the custom content included with them. I'll post a pic of the first four results from breeding in CAS... and someone else could do the same? It seems reasonable to me that if somebody else has normal looking sims and mine all have crazy eyebags that then, even after all my previous tries, I have proof of a problem. Yes?

If anybody is willing to do just this for me.. please download Joshua (http://www.the-treehousesims.com/joshua.html) and Teagan (http://www.the-treehousesims.com/tegan.html), breed them in CAS and post a picture of the first four results. Thank you!"

Am I the only one that makes sense to? Maybe I'm missing something. I've also tried unistalling SimPE and reinstalling a completely updated version - thinking that would matter, but nope.

All my custom skins looks perfectly normal untill their applied to a sim that I've bred in game... I don't know what else to say. Those skins are not badly made. The verticies (is that what they're called, the points on a mesh) that are supposed to be directly underneath the eye are automatically stretched to the top of the cheek each and every single friggen sim I breed in game.

Extract one of these sims, upload to mediafire or something, and let other people test them. It really looks like a bad skin OR the result of two sims breeding ugly. Sometimes sims made to be unique make really ugly spawn.

Looks like some unfortunate side effect of Enayla skins. Some of her eariler stuff suffered from this alot. When she started doing the Pixie skins, the eye sag wasn't as apparent. It's the under eye detail getting stretched out by the genetics. Spawn with different sims, or remove the CC skins. Be sure to check your saved sims folder as well, not just your downloads.

I put both of those sims in my game and bred them, and got the same effect.  However, changing the spawn's skin to my defaults (some enayla pixie skin, I don't remember which anymore) solved the problem.

So yes, it is a problem with CC.  Just give those sims different skin.

Did you not say that you downloaded the breeding sims from another site? Doesn't that mean that you had to install them?

Don't you think it's a possibility that once you installed those sims that a custom skin was installed as well, vanilla game or not?

You could save a lot of time and headache if you would just remove the Download folder and reload the game to check it yourself.

EDIT (after following post): Also what Jelenedra said.

Downloads AND Saved Sims.  :P

Definitely looks like an Enayla skin issue.  I've got one of her skins that was downloaded with someone's SimSelf, and her kids have some undereye baggage.  Not quite as bad as the bags in the pictures, but it's a Pixie skin, which cut down on a lot of it.

Short of pulling your Downloads and SavedSims folders, do the bags go away if you switch the Sims to a non-Enayla skin?

Oh, but she totally did!  And because she showed that some custom eyeshadow was stretchy, it totally means that it's not a CC issue and we should be able to fix it for her!   ::)

No, I don't think you should simply fix it for me. I'm just pissed that you all seem to say the same thing. "Run the game without CC". I have already fucking done that, before and after reinstalling the game (obviously before running the game with that one piece of eyeliner and thanks for pointing that out). What a stupid idea to ask people for help and not do what they're asking.

That's my take. If you're only answer is "this girl doesn't know how to drag and drop her Saved Sims and Downloads folders to her desktop", thanks a bunch for your help.

*EDIT* I see a lot of you saying Enayla skins are messed up. Those aren't Enayla's but they may (most likely) be clones/blends - whatever. Are you guys saying there's something wrong with the actual file that makes the breeding f'ed up? Even then... the problem would go away once custom skins were removed, I assume. I did remove all my CC in batches - testing each round. First BodyShop genetics (eyes, hair, skin and face templates), then everything else in BodyShop (accessories, makeup, clothing, etc), then Hacks and then all Build/Buy mode. I use the Download organizer to categorize everything, so I do know what is what.

Yes, what a stupid idea, indeed. We told you to get rid of the offending CC, and yet there you go, saying that those are custom skins, meaning YOU ARE USING CC AFTER WE SPECIFICALLY SAID NOT TO. Are you intentionally being stupid, then?

I believe what the OP wants to know is why breeding face #1 with face #1 results in a face that is different from #1 (namely, has bigger eyebags) -- or rather, whether others are seeing the same effect or her game is broken. Which is a valid question IMHO, I wouldn't expect that either. I think she is basically just using those skins so that we can see the change in the face sculpt.

I don't see how anyone here would be able to answer questions about random downloaded sims, though. Take it up with the creators if you don't like how they breed.

Seriously, if you see that little bit of distortion as a problem, how long have you been playing TS2? If you're a new player, then you'll have to lower your standards by a LOT if you want to keep using downloaded sims and enjoy the game .. many people who upoad sims, celebrities in particular, apparently never even check how they'd look like as the other gender, and that alone often leads to some serious breeding accidents (and I mean frog-faced monsters who can't wear any glasses and have teeth clipping through their chin -- not 0.1 inch difference in the eyebags). Not to mention that in TS2, faces will only be compatible with each other (read, result in reasonable-looking spawn) if face height, nose height, eye height etc are almost the same in both faces. Good luck with that if you use other people's sims.

I'd recommend you start making your own sims, or play a different game. If you're that picky about the looks of your born-in-game sims, then TS2 isn't for you.

I believe some random factors are inserted into the breeding process, and then the entire thing is "normalized", so that is probably why. Turning off faceblending may help. However, those faces look fairly normal to me. Other than the really weird eyes and eye-line split, anyway. What causes THAT? That isn't in face 1.

I've never seen any random factors in TS2 (as in, kids suddelny having a completely dfferent nose/chin/cheekbones than either of their parents), but yes, normalisation does happen and may be the reason why eyebag 1 + eyebag 1 = eyebag 2.

That's not what I meant. I mean that the EXISTING features are attached with some amount of fuzzfactor to them, so they are not quite perfectly copied.

You get blending of features in Sims 2. You get direct copies in Sims 3. =p

Problem is that the OP refuses to show us pictures of the parents. Simply the offsprings. It could be that one of the parents' eyelines are vastly different than the other and that's causing the issue. But considering that the problem IS NOT THAT VISIBLE WITH DIFFERENT SKIN TONES why should we bother to "fix" it. When the only problem is the skintone?

Like I said, *I* have had the same issues with some of Enayla's earlier skintones. Her more recent stuff DOES NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM on the same sims. Considering that I can recognize the freaking eyebags down to the creator (or whoever copied Enayla's work and tried to pass it off as their own "blend") should tell you something about the problem.

I noticed a slight facial variation when breeding two identical sims to create a third. My avatar sim, for example, has slightly turned down mouth corners. However, if I make a male and female version of him in CAS and then create offspring, some have turned up mouth corners and some turned down mouth corners. It is very subtle, but could explain why someone could see a variation in features.

Extacly. Thank you so much. When I took out all genetic BS content I was able to see the streching by applying the eyeliner... If everyone is saying that its a problem with skins then why wasn't it resolved??? Also, if it's just a case of bad facial scuplt genetics then why did the exact same results appear from breeding face 5 with 12, face 19 with 13, face 4 with 1, etc of Oupe's, Pooklet's and Maxis templates - before and after removing each type of CC in turn?

If, in fact, it was absolutely a CC issue (my game is alergic, whatever) would having only that one piece of makeup in my Downloads folder to prove streching truly affect anything? If so, then I'm willing to upload the package so you can show me.

I'm reinstalling my game tonight, yet again. Raise your hand if you'd like pictures of every step of the trial and error porcess.  ;D

There is a lack of understanding here, obviously.

So, are you saying that the bags only appear with that custom makeup and/or skin, which is why you had to use it to prove that there was stretching?

How do the Sims look without that CC makeup and skin. Please, post some pics.

EDIT because I rushed and want to avoid double-posting:

To humour your earlier request about the 4 offspring from those two Sims, I finally had some time, and here's the result.

(http://www.m4hire.com/misc/NoBags.jpg)

Could you please do the same?

If the only piece of CC you are using is "one piece of makeup" then why aren't your sims in Maxis skins?  Non-Maxis skins are CC too.

In the Maxis skin image in the first post there isn't a problem that anyone here can see.  There's no denying that the problem is readily apparent when the sims are in non-Maxis skins.  This is why we think the problem is CC (i.e. non-Maxis skins).  If the problem isn't CC (as you claim) then it should be just as obvious when your sims are using Maxis skins.

Exactly, if you're using CC skins to show off the eyebags, then try different CC skins, FFS. Try installing Enayla's Pixie skins and see if the eyebags still show up then. Once again, her earlier stuff had huge eyebags. CONSTANTLY. There is a reason why they got dumped my from my CC folder. I got tired of reloading the game if a baby was spawned with her older skins.

What we're trying to say is, there is nothing broken about your game, or your sims, it's the CC. Caused by a creator not testing her work on vastly different sims. That's why her newer skins (even her freaking weirdo gem skintones don't have this problem) because she got better at making skins. If you don't have her early work installed, when you clearly have CC skins in your game, then you're using someone that is suffering from her earlier mistakes of making the under eye area too detailed.

CC makeup can be very poorly made as well, which is something else that's being used to show off the baggage. I've run into tons of whorishly made makeup throughout my Simming years that can also cause/accentuate/mimic this sort of stretching problem, even the heavier Maxis liner does this if I recall correctly (which I didn't use in that sample picture because the lighter one is more preferable).

Basically, Kandiedkate, until you actually show us this problem with the default skins and some decently made makeup, preferably the less noticeable ones, we're (or at least I am) going to believe that your problem is with poorly made CC.

The Sims are not perfect. Anyone who's ever made any effort to customize them on a Photoshop level knows this. There is stretching around the cranium, the eyes, under the cheekbones, near the front of the ear, several parts of the body, etc. This is why several people prefer CC (that's well made to compensate for this issue) to the Default skins and makeup (as well as the poorly made CC counterparts), and whatever else people have had issues with in the game. This is probably the main reason why no one is seeing a problem with the sims or your game, because they look the way Sims have looked since the release of TS2.

In other words: there is nothing wrong with them.

Take into consideration that I've had BABIES (which are all shaped the same, with none of the parents physical features visible except for eye bolor) with eyebags, should really tell you something. =p

I wish eye baggage was the problem I'm having with the family I'm breeding right now. Child number two looks like it had its face smashed in by a truck - poor little fugly.