More Awesome Than You!

I gathered this information through XML files, and though it might be interesting to others too.

EDIT: added XML files which hold all these properties and more. You can open them with notepad, but I recommend free program XML Maker for better viewing and understanding, you can get it here http://symbolclick.com/ (http://symbolclick.com/).

There are several types of community lots, for example library, gym, pool.... Almost all of these community lots are unique because of their buff's, nonplayer sims visiting times, crowd size and map tags.

How to build a spesific lot type

I found out what makes a community lot of a certain type to be that type and not other. Lot needs to fullfil these conditions.


Empty - self-explanatory
Simple - doesn't fulfill any other condition
Fishing Venue - min number of fishing spots needed on a venue before the game will think it is fishing venue = 1
Park - min number of park objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is a park =3
Big Park - min number of park-objects before the park counts as a big park = 12
Beach - min number of beach objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is a beach = 1
Pool - min number of pools needed on a venue before the game will think it is a swimming pool =1
Art Gallery - min number of arty objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is an art gallery =16
Library - min number of bookshelves needed on a venue before the game will think it is a library = 12
Gym - min number of gym objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is a gym = 4
Graveyard - min number of graveyard objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is graveyard = 4, min number of mausoleums needed on a venue before the game will think it is graveyard =1.
Rabbit hole - any type of rabbit hole, except mausoleum. At this point lot looses its identity and you can see only the rabbit hole’s map tag. I think this is done so you can have many different rabbit holes on the same lot, like with Mirabello Plaza you have theatre, bookshop and grocery shop all on the same lot and three different map tags.

These lot types are listed in override order, meaning that once you fulfill a condition for an art gallery, this lot can’t be a pool, even if it has a dozens of pools. Or if you have a gym, you will get a gym buff and won’t get a library buff, even if you have 100 bookshelves on the same lot.
I don’t know what graveyard objects are, park objects etc., but they do seem to be pretty logical. For example, I found out that beach umbrella is a beach object, and grill is a park object, while chairs and tables aren’t. That’s why Maywood Glen isn’t considered a park, even though it looks like a park type.


Where to have a party and where not

Parties:
You can rent these places for a party:
Pool – 300$
Small Parks – 200$
Big Park – 250$
Beach Venue – 250$
Fishing Venue – 150$
Art Gallery – 400$

I always wondered why I can’t have a party at Recurve Strand (small beach) or at Maywood Glen (one with a chess set and a couple of tables. Now I know why: game simply considered them misc. lots, and those can’t be rented out for a party. By adding a couple of grills and a swing set I could have a party at Maywood Glen  :D

Misc.

Plus to all these properties, there are also the ones about sim types visiting and crowd sizes. All those are logical. You will more likely meet sims from Athletic career at the Stadium; there will be more people at the big park, then at the small; there will be no one on the empty lot; more bookworms at the library, then at the gym and so on. If someone will want these information badly enough I will post it, it’s just that it's a LOT of it  ::)

If there is some other information about community lots you would like to know, please tell. I’ll try to find and post it.

On a side note: English is not my main language, and as much as I tried to keep this post grammatically correct, there are bound to be mistakes, at least structural. Please point those out to me in PM, if you'll bother enough (so not to clutter the thread) and I will correct them as soon as possible. Thank you.

I have found this is not true. I will check this when I get home, but it seems an art gallery only needs more than 3 decorative objects on a wall before it recognizes a lot as an art gallery. I'll have to check to see if it simply counts all decorative objects.

I had my first wedding party at Maywood Glen with the rental cost being about $200, so that information is incorrect.

As I said I don't know exactly what arty objects are, I can only guess this includes statues and maybe something else, but I do know that paintings surely do count, you still need 16 of them, 15 won't work.  All my tests were conducted on completely empty lots.


I checked again with a new game of Sunset Valley and couldn't have a party there. Are sure you didn't change anything on the lot, maybe added something for the party before calling to throw it? I'm talking about the lot with a chess table and two tables in the suburbs with no roads by it.

Nope, I didn't change anything. The sims in question lived in the house directly in front of the park. This is why the party was so boring, there was nothing to do there but play chess and talk to each other. There weren't even enough chairs for the whole party to sit down.

Strange  ??? I even made sim propose, but he still couldn't choose this place. Can anyone else comment on this matter? Can you check, where you can't have parties and if you still can have it there?

Okay, brainstorming: if adding a swingset and a grill is all it took to enable parties at recurve strand, perhaps you need objects for food/fun in order to throw a party there.

Adding one swingset and one grill doesn't do the trick for me. Adding one more grill does.
Park - min number of park objects needed on a venue before the game will think it is a park = 3

As for Maywood Glen, I found out that chess table is a park object so by adding two or more grills, for example, I get a small park and can rent this place for a party. Proof:

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Blackcat007/ScreenShot072-2.jpg)

And again three objects is a must, one or two doesn't work.

These things don't only affect parties. By changing lot type I'm also changing the amount of sims visiting, times of visiting and types of sims visiting. Roughly said, simple lot will get less visitors then small park, small park will get less then big park; also parks attract these traits: LovesTheOutdoors, Angler, GreenThumb, while simple lots don't have spesific preference.

Hm, that's intersting. I was wondering what delineated beach lots as a speshul type of lot.

Ok, just went back to that 'hood to check and the only thing I may have added, (I say "may" because I don't remember if I did this before or after wedding) is 2 chairs so that my teens could always do their homework together there. Everything else is exactly the same. No grills or fun objects. You mentioned something about traits affecting what kind of sims visit, the sims who got married there both had the LovesOutdoors trait, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Could you start a new game and check if you can have parties at Maywood Glen?

I haven't tried this but had a thought. What if its also affected by the inventory contents of the sim throwing the party? (to explain the disparate results reported here)

Well, maybe not by the inventory of the sim who's throwing the party, but I did thought of the sims who are on the lot at the moment of the call. Unfortunately I can't think of an object that sims can put in their inventory and it can be considered a park object, except picnic basket and fire pit which I already checked, and they aren't park objects. If you'll think of anything else, fill free to test.

I think the beach itself is what delineates it as a beach lot--the game recognizes the placement of the beach lots. Beach lots have a (relatively) low priority, however, so if you build something else at the beach, the game will recognize that lot type instead.

Bleh, how did I miss that?

ETA: edited for accuracy

Nope. Beach is entirely defiant by a beach object on it. I know only of one for now - beach umbrella. I placed one umbrella and behold:

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c126/Blackcat007/ScreenShot067-1.jpg)

This was one of the empty lots near the military base. I think it hardly looks like a beach. Also, it's important to notices that beach overwrites small park and big park. So if you build a park and add one umbrella you'll get yourself a beach. Without the umbrella location doesn't matter, you won't get a beach.

After all my testing I'm pretty sure in this data. So if you think something isn't true or doesn’t work that way, please, test first in new game, preferably starting with a completely empty lot.

Oops! Now that is just bizarre. I had hoped there might be an additional requirement for the beach lots beyond the placement of objects alone. Obviously logic has no place here. Do the sims behave much differently at a dedicated beach lot than they do at a park? Which sims are attracted by the beach lots?


I found that picnic baskets can't be placed on community lots--they are residential objects only. Unless they're in a different place in the lot catalog, how did you manage to test them? I don't have access to the game right now, unfortunately.

                   Small Park                                                                     BigPark                                                                      Beach
Traits:          Love the Outdoors, Angler, GreenThumb                          Love the Outdoors, Angler, Green Thumb                       Loves the Outdoors, Athletic
Excl.Trait      Hate the Outdoors                                                          Same                                                                         Same
Career          Proff. Sports                                                                 Same                                                                          Same            
Skill              Athletic                                                                         Same                                                                         Same                      
Rush Hours:    15-18                                                                         15-18                                                                          14-15        
Max Sims*:     0-6                                                                            12-15                                                                          2-10          

*number of sims at rush hours, first number - without active sim, second number - with active sim on lot.

As you can see max number of sims is pretty different.



I just switched families, used one of the sims to serve picnic with two baskets in Maywood Glenn (should've been enough), then switched back and tried to through a party, same with fire pit. I just wondered if lot changed status because other sims had picnic there, as they can do this autonomously.

Just to comment on Maywood Glen, I was unable to have a party there once when I intended to. 

Ok, so I finally got around to testing this out in a new 'hood and the option was not there. I pretty much made a copy of the the original sim as far as traits go, and could not recreate this. I tried adding chairs, nothing. I gave the tester sim a picnic basket, a guitar, and a portable radio, since these things were in the original sim's inventory at the time of the wedding, and still nothing. I then loaded up an old save of the original sims as elders and tried to have both of them and their daughter throw a party there, again nothing. This is driving me crazy, I know I didn't imagine them getting married there, but I can't get the option to come up again, for the life of me. The only thing I haven't tried yet is an exact replica of the events, which I will now. Maybe the sims being engaged triggered it, maybe it was the time of day, or it could have been the fact that I had food in their inventories. Whatever it was, I am now obsessed and must figure out. I hate randomness!

Is there any way to attract specific age groups to a community lot?  I wanted to make a park that would attract children so the fambly kid could pick and choose some friends.  I put every toy in the game (and trees) on a blank commercial lot.  The game recognized it as a park just fine, but I didn't get any kid visitors, or hardly any visitors at all.

I'd also like to make one that would attract lots of teenagers.  Same reason.

Maybe we need a visitor controller (!?)

I didn't find any age variables in properties, just traits and career preferences. As for crowd size, are you sure you got a park, did you check by trying to throw a party there? Otherwise it's impossible to tell. In any case as you see in my post above small parks attract max 6 people at rush hours and only if active sim is on the lot, there is hardly anyone at other hours.

You say you added toys--did you try the playground equipment?

You mean the swings and the slide and the platform playhouse?  Yup.  And I've got teddybears and dollhouses and toyboxes, etc., all of them.

I checked, and the playground is rentable for parties, $150.

Based on the price, what you got is a fishing venue. Do you have a pond there? Also try adding three more swing sets and delete them one by one until you'll still get 200$ for rent and not 150$. Then it will be a small park, it overwrites fishing spot.  As for visiting, you can modify venue XML file to get the amount of visitors you want in the small park and then the probability of kids being there will be greater. Right now there is a 100% chance that when a sim is visiting a community lot on purpose, he takes his whole family with him. So there is a greater chance for a sim with kids in the family to come, as you see in the central park. There is no way right now to make kids come alone (due to 100%), or for a lot to attract them specifically, the only way to see a lonely child is when he wonders off after school. In this case the playground lot needs to be close to school.

It would be unnecessary to create a whole new thread for this, since my reply fits into the category -ness...

Which type of lot 'attracts' the most sims? I'd guess Big Park is a sure sale, but is, for example, the Art Gallery better? I'd like to send my political guy somewhere where a lot of people hangs around to make moar friends with his awesome aura.

Depends on a lot of things. In a vanilla game, I have no idea. With Awesomemod, if you have a lot of people set to Task: Work and School, most people will be at the Library. Without No Crowd Swarm on, the most crowded place will be wherever you are presently.

If you don't turn nostalkers on, you can watch them creepily stalk you like a band of Mossad agents everywhere you go, which is simultaneously aggravating and creepy, especially when you try to go someplace else to escape them, only to have them stalk you to a formerly empty lot.

Big park is the best. Without nostalkers you will get 15 sims there from 10 to 18 with active sim present. The next one is a pool with 12 people at 14:00, but I don't think they are accessible while swimming. Library will get you 10 from 12 to 14, and at the beach venue there will be 10 sims from 14 to 15. All these numbers are will the active sim present and with nostalkers off.

You can also adjust these numbers for your suiting if you know XML editing. All the necessary files are attached to the original post.

What about rabbitholes?  What effect to they have on community lot traffic?  My sims are driving me crazy with going to Central Park, which has 6-8 rabbitholes and about 20-40 sims at a time; the police station with a cafe, internet cafe, gym, and hotel, has about 6-7 at a time; and my eating place/gym/pool/library only ever gets two people, and always for the gym.  I am adding a diner right now to the eating area, just to see if that improves traffic to the lot.

I think that each rabbithole has a certain radius which specifies the area around them that belongs to that building, like a lot within a lot. Within that area they attract the number of sims that they are supposed to attract based on their properties in the attached XML file. Thus by placing several rabbit holes on one lot you will see many sims there at once that are actually divided into groups, and each group belongs to a specific rabbithole. For example: RH A attracts 5 sims during afternoon hours, and RH B 7. By having these two building on the same lot you will have 12 sims on it in afternoon ( i think that this will be true even if the radius's will overlap). So it might not be such a good idea to cram a lot of buildings on the same lot as the traffic will be pretty severe. All this is with nostalkers off. I don't know how the game will behave with it on.

Does this include your playable sims?  I'm still not sure how this works.  Does the rabbithole actually pull sims to it's lot every day, or does it just supply a score that increases the chance that sims will choose to go there.  I use awesomeMod, and was under the impression that they controlled their own lives, and also, I have no NPCs in my neighborhood (at least very few).

Rabbitholes advertise "meta-autonomy" actions which will cause sims to visit them independently of anything else on the lot, so merely sticking a rabbithole on a lot attracts visitors to use it at random.

I downloaded the venue.rar attached to this thread and altered the XML tuning.  My intent was to stop my sims from going to the graveyard and other community lots by changing all the values to zero.  I put the new XML file in the mods/packages folder, but there have been no changes in-game.  Is there something I am doing wrong with the file, or is there something else I should be changing to get the desired results?

If your game is patched you should have community lot type "no visitors". Otherwise, dunno.

changing lot type to "no visitors" required me to delete the mausoleum first.  The strange part is every community lot on that street was also listed as a graveyard, but those did not require me to delete anything.  I am fine with deleting the mausoleum, but I am not fine with deleting the stadium, gym, theater, or whatever other things have to be deleted to stop this from happening at other times of day.  I was hoping for an XML solution.

Did you check what happens if you change lot type to "no visitors", but leave the mausoleum? I think that maybe this leads to only those that work there still come onto the lot.

I changed all my lots to "no visitors".  I haven't received visitors to the graveyard since, but they do still go to the hospital.  Apparently I can't stop visitors to workplace lots without deleting the workplace building.  Is the .rar on this thread intended to be a mod?  If so, I cannot get it to work, and I wonder if I am doing it correctly.

No, those are XML files. To make a mod you need to package them, after you made the changes. s3pe is used, generally.

Yes, I figured it out.  I think there is something new with the latest patch that lets you edit them right in s3pe.  I was able to make changes right in the gameplaydata file and save them.  I changed values in the visitrabbithole and visitrabbitholewith tunings and they took.  I just wonder if it now works that way in-game.

That is the future of s3pe and has nothing to do with EP. I don't think, that changing the gameplaydata file and then saving was such a good idea. It will be better to save just those xml files you changed in a seperate package file. I also change values in Venues xml and this worked for me before,. Didn't check it since then. I'll see if it is still true.
The mausoleum is also a workplace, was it still on the graveyard when visiting stoped?

I haven't confirmed that it's stopped - it just hasn't happened in the amount of time I've played since changing it.  Yes I left the mausoleum in.

Changing and saving the gameplaydata file is a HORRIBLE idea. Because, well, next patch? Sorry, you're screwed.

Anyway, I had no idea there were definitions for the number of sims on each type of lot. Does it always pull the number set, or is that just a maximum? It'd be nice if the game tried to get a set number of sims on any given lot. I don't like going to the library and being alone, 3 or 4 sims sounds reasonable. Likewise 50 sims showing up at the diner is ridiculous.

For each type of lot, there is number of sims wanted for each hour of the day.  I don't know if it actually pulls all that is needed every time.