More Awesome Than You!

Since the tidal wave of sheep shows no sign of letting up, and the most important task is sorting the occasional nugget of wheat from the chaff, Pescado has strongly suggested that grammatical errors and other behaviour demanding the sharp spork be handled by a barrage of PMs, rather than excessive poking in the thread. You may also like to take your guffaws to any relevant thread in RL, such as Miss Sheeple 2009.

I will be taking notice of the naughty and the nice with regard to respecting this decree, for Grammar Day Awards purposes. If warranted, someone can make a thread in RL to post the butthurt responses to the PM barrage.

Thank you for co-operation.

OH, and if you are a SHEEP reading this, then FUCKING LEARN TO SPELL, ASSHOLE.

Moderator edit: And read the FAQ (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,7437.0.html)!

* InsanityPrelude salutes

Can do.

I'm guessing, this is somewhat pointed at me? :)
EDIT: Duly noted. Just like Santa, I'll be checking my posts twice, three, four or more times.
I'll also ask my mom to read over it too. Hehe.

I think you mean duly noted.  ::)

Lulz. Now I've put my foot in it. But, It's something I have learned for today. I think that's the first time I have had to write it. I don't use the "Old Vocabulary", nor the New one I guess. Hehe.

(http://cats.moreawesomethanyou.com/edumaction.jpg)

Every day is a learning curve! W00t!

Yo, JonaBullshit, I have a newsflash for you:  NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU. But thanks for adding another piece of evidence to my growing pile. I am utterly backing you for Miss Sheeple.

Lulz, I love the name calling, so mature. Add it to your pile, good for you.
I know that MATY has its grammar and spelling rules, and that people have been slipping up (ME included).
I was simply making a comment at this being directed at me based off the posts in one of the other threads and not taking it to heart keeping a smile on my face. Gees!
Smile.

Dude. This is MATY. We are ad hominem central. Also, you might want to check my post count, my custom title and the list of my duties around here.

Oh, but you wouldn't do that because you are an arrogant little shit with no actual substance to any of your comments. Who else but a grade 1 snowflake comes to a site and makes grandiose statements about how long it is willing to wait for its haxxors, while both claiming they are indispensable and at the same time being unable to remember what they are called.

Think it's just me? Look at the crowds of people rushing to second my nomination of you as stand-out tard of the season.

You know what would make your claims about taking it with a smile credible? If you learned to use the English language, and managed even one post that didn't have an egregious error in it.

Want to know what happens to people who take me on? Search is your friend. I have bested better tards than you, little snowflake.

"Also, you might want to check my post count," Some one has to start somewhere, correct?
"grandiose statements about how long it is willing to wait for its haxxors" Where are these "statements"?
"being unable to remember what they are called." Unable to remember what, what is called? :s

As I have mentioned, I highlighted these gems from you in your nomination for Miss Sheeple. If you could be bothered to look, you would see.

I know, you are imagining you are pwning me with your poorly phrased questions. You are wrong.

Are you driving a team of horses as you post, or were you just dropped on your head repeatedly?

Thanks this is gr8.

And... Meh. Good day, Donk.

I think as long as a post is readable that's all that matters, this isn't an examination it's a forum.

Mmm, that was my understand too. I've I mentioned that I'm a shit speller and all that seems to have happened is I've been laughed at. The kind of pointing and laughing you tell your children off for doing when their see a retarded person down the street. Pathetic I think.

This particular forum will probably make you nostalgic for examinations (see FAQ).  It's not a good idea to come into a forum where you are new and dictate the mode of discourse.

This is MATY, pointing & laughing at the less awesome is what we do here.

Newsflash for the idiotically slow:  MATY is NOT real life.  In real life that "retarded person down the street" doesn't have a choice in the matter - they were born that way, and personally I would find it offensive to refer to them in the manner you just chose to.  However, here at MATY if anyone chooses to post in a retarded manner then they do so by their own choice, so pointing & laughing at people who post in a retarded manner here is entirely appropriate.

I find that offensive. Are people with dyslexia or other learning abilities not allowed to post here?

Did JonaFootBullet make a sock just so someone would agree with it? That is fantastic.

Use a browser with a decent spell-check.

I've known many dyslexic people at many different forums.  The smart ones use a spell-checker before posting, and nobody would have known that these posters were dyslexic if they hadn't mentioned it themselves at some stage.

Stop trying to be a smart-ass who is trying to trip us up with stupid questions like that one, NakedNick.  We've heard it all before (many times before!) from countless morons who have dropped by and tried to change us.

WYSIWYG.  If you don't like it, then fuck off and go someplace else.  We're not going to change just to suit you.  You're not that fucking special.

Cheers Nick. But I wouldn't bother wasting your breath with these insensitive/immature pricks. This is all so pretty pathetic. they started this war with me. I'm happy to have the bullets (pun) fired at me. Call me what ever names you like, and abuse me all you like. In the end... Meh. I've stated my case, and my ability to not spell that well. If by picking the shit of it me and others makes you feel better or more "awesome" than the rest of us good for you. I'm not going to lose any sleep over you jerks. :)

Yeehaar! JonaPullsit  whatever happened to the good intentions in your apology-caek PMs to me? Have you forgotten your 'good internet friend' already?

You're cruisin' for a bruisin' kiddo.

This is our place, our rules, if you don't like them you really don't have to stay here. Rly!

Yesterday you were complaining that I'd spoiled your mood for the day; keep on like this and you're likely to have a pretty sad weekend - although perhaps you don't spend your time on forums when you are not at work. You do know IBM is laying people off all over the world, don't you? You must also know that large computer companies are very likely to be tracking internet usage at work? I think you're in for some tough life lessons over the next couple of years.

Not to mention, S-M-R-T people that work for big multi-nationals (such as myself) aren't stupid enough to post which multi-national they work for when they do manage to slack off on MATY from work...because it's like a red rag to a bull for the filter bots and then you're basically posting public evidence of being a slack-ass on the company dime.

Hehe, yes I was aware of IBM laying people off, not me though, for now. :P Anyways, I did apologize for my crappy spelling and grammar, but it just continued on and on, and look at it now. Yeah I cant spell. Yeah I'm shit. Yeah I'm not awesome, but come on, enough is enough. This is just going on and on. I'm over it, I'm sure every one else is. *Sings: Why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends* :)
I'm doing my hardest to keep the Grammar Nazi's out there happy, but now it's just blown way out of the water. I've said I'll try. Shit, if that's not good enough what is 'Oh, Awesome Ones'? :P
Thank you witch for your kind reply, kindness goes along way, and is more noticed.

As advised by my manager, he has no problems with us surfing the net, MSNing and what not, while at work/doing work. With what I do, sitting there doing sweet FA comes with the role. We have a lot of scripts and applications that do the work for us, so while waiting for those to do their job, we surf the net and go for breaks etc.

As has been stated before, this is MATY.  To elaborate, it's More Awesome Than You, a title which should tell you something about the kind of people who are most active here.  It's not a standard buddy-buddy forum.  You don't come here to be loved or fawned upon or greeted with open arms, you come here for information and downloads to make your game More Awesome.

So, if you don't want to be nominated for any Sheeple Awards, first off you should lurk a lot before asking stupid questions, see how those who have posted most handle things, look to see if your question has already been answered, use a spell-checker if you're shit at spelling, and then close your eyes and plunge into the water.  If you don't want chunks bitten off you, don't play with the tigers.

As for RL disabilities or difficulties, that's a whole different subject and not relevant to forum life.

Given my company hasn't laid anyone off yet in any of the countries we operate in and yours has, I don't like the odds. Just because you *can* doesn't necessarily mean you *should*. After all, it's not your supervisor's job on the line if they begin to monitor what you're up to and the content of what you're actually discussing. As it stands, you're using corporate property to publicly discuss a pirated and thus illegal product. Under corporate laws, anything you do on a company-owned PC is "property" of the company, which means you've essentially bought IBM into your piracy discussions on the use of the product. Don't think it's possible to bite you in the ass? A friend of mine works for Telstra - she was fired because she was discussing on a forum the fact that she had downloaded the leaked X-Men Origins movie about a month or so ago and had it on her external HDD that was attached to her work PC.

BLS, nooblet. If you think your company would keep your job as opposed to cutting you loose to protect their bottom line, you're in for a shock in the real world. Hell, I'd expect that and the company I work for has stated publicly that we value our staff over our customers.

Man, this place just gets more surreal every time I come here. LMAO.

For some reason your post made me think of this:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/91ghlw.jpg)

ETA: original source with choice of three pictures here: Tiger Meets Dolphin (http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2009/tiger-meets-dolphin-p1.php)

Now that's what I call Awesome!  I'm going to have to have that as wallpaper.

Wow JonaBullshit you really are exceedingly speshul aren't you? This thread wasn't set up for you, but thanks for turning it into the 'zomg look at meeeee' show. Congrats.

As has already been pointed out, this is not your forum. If you don't like the rules here then you are under no obligation to stick around. In fact, I'd strongly advise you to get the fuck out. Stop acting like a wronged hero - in the grand scheme of things you're a mere speck in MATY's history. I doubt we'll even remember you in a month's time. Just do us all a favour and go back to the BBS, where you quite clearly belong.

Edited for spelling

u guys r totaly loosing site of the rael prob here. many of the ppl here are ESL or rly young or victums of US public educashun and dont deserv 2 b maed fun of!!!!!111 maty is suposed 2 b 4 talkin about sims and not 4 being big meanie fatheads! it is not about the qualty of there speling or grammer but the qualty of the concepts behind them! evrytime u call ppl names 4 typing wrong god kills a kiten and dedukts points from ur karma bank. so b nice ok?

Ah fuck up and die!

Edit:
!fail Giggy

Clearly, Giggy has failed us! YOU MUST NOT! Various people have FAILED 666 times.

Giggy, no. Gloaming Merle has been around a lot longer than you and is merely taking the piss.

LOL yeah, I know who he is :D (w00t you're famous!); I'm using his purple alien default replacement all the time.

BTW, I would add that ESLs are likely going to be MORE pissed by moronic errors: they make the reading way more hard to us. Next time I see a your in place of you're I'm going to blast the poster's head with dynamite.

LOL that is too funny.  I will endeavor to make sure that I spell everything correctly and my grammer is correct.  BTW asshole is spelt arsehole.  Unless of course you are referring to them as being a donkey  ;)   :D

Yes, and also, if we can manage to be coherent in a language that is not our first, those who grow up with it should be able to as well. Argh.


Grammar and spelled, moron.

People don't have to have perfect spelling and grammar but that is just ridiculous!

LMFAO! I just knew someone would fail to sense my sarcasm, yet I'm amazed by it all the same. I thought it was pretty obvious.


Ah, that makes sense. It always ticks me off when someone treats ESL-folk like morons when they make a grammatical error. Actually, they tend to have a firmer grasp on spelling and grammar than many of my fellow U.S.ians, and even if they don't, I just want to say to the people giving them a hard time, "--and how many languages do YOU speak?"


Moi? Famous? Aw, shucks... I haven't even made uploaded anything in ages. My interest in Sims 2 practically went down the toilet after Pests Pets. I never even got around to reducing my Laverwinkle skin file-size after learning how to years ago.  :-[

"Spelt" is a correct and common British form of the past, and past participle, of "Spell". Since the poster is fairly obviously (c.f. "arsehole") a Briton, or colonial offshoot, I feel we have to let them have this.


Not nearly as famous as you deserve. Your alien skins are one of only three pieces of cc I have ever been prepared to use.

Its ironic that this site is so bothered about grammar, yet doesn't care in the slightest about common politeness to people you don't know.  You'd think priorities would be different.

This is likely due to the fact that I am an Epic Lurker, which is likely due to the fact that the last thing I really want is fame.


Nothing is as you think it should be in Awesomeland.

Honestly, the sheer size of the tidal wave of illiteracy made my Grammar Cat circuits short out for a while, and I am more than happy to  hold my special Grammar Police Spork and Knife in reserve for now. I was dreading the long hours of constant resharpening ahead.

However, I will be Taking Notes. You illiterate, arrogant little pissants need to LEARN U A BOOK already.

This IS MATY University, a branch of the School of Hard Knocks, and you do not get extra credit for emoties, coloured text, or "creative" use of punctuation. We are not breathlessly awaiting your next pearl of wisdom, dear sheeply n00bs, and the more you fail not to fail, the more likely it is that you will Be Noticed and Smited.

Handy Tips:
* We don't CARE that you're new. We pretty much figured that out from your low post count, stupid blinky avatar, huge signature images, and failure to READ THE FAQ. Your FAIL also gave it away.
* We don't hand-hold and pass out lollies here to the inept. If you get a virus because you couldn't follow directions or ask for help via PM, too bad for you. If you can't find a torrent or hack or thread and it is OBVIOUS you didn't bother to search and just arrogantly assumed we are all sitting around with nothing better to do than provide you with a personalized roadmap or guide, or to repeat information readily available if you SEARCH, too bad for you.
* Your attempts to be a Speshul Snowflayke with your non-standard capitalization, use of coloured fonts / font sizes, weird txtspk spelling / teen slang and ability to throw whiny little tanties when you are not met with snuggles and pats on the head are guaranteed to make you unpopular here; again, too bad for you.

READ THE FAQ, USE SPELLCHECK, and stop the whole "the world revolves around ME and MY WANTS" attitude, and you'll do fine.

We're cranky here. Most of us have been online a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time and are beyond tired of the typical Interweebz FAIL and shenanigans and laziness. If you're offended, you don't belong here. There will be other places where you can have a group sing-a-long of "Kumbaya" and pretend to care about each other's days, your Special Sisters, your "creative" abuse of the English language, your made-up attention-seeking disorders and diseases, and and your emotional ups and downs.

P.S. to Dylan: you can't help but be Awesome both by deed and by association. It is your cross to bear, I am afraid.

Since this a text-based environment, in which one's interactions, abilities, and associations occur solely in the written form, the use of correct grammar, spelling, and punctuation forms the basis of politeness, you fuckwit.

This is too choice. Pescado himself has decreed that the information is more important than the grammar and spelling.  

I was wondering how long the threadshitting would go on.  Got the inappropriate trait much?

Hook

So i've been called a fuckwit because i showed a bit of empathy to either side? Wow, well thats polite for sure. I'd say not calling someone a name is more polite than if you spell the sentence wrong. That is all i was saying.

Do you go into another person's home in meatspace as a guest and begin telling them how they need to arrange their furniture, how they need to raise their children and how they should behave in their own home? No? Then why the fuck would you do it here at MATY? It's the exact same thing. This is our home and the sheeple have waltzed in our front door and taken a giant deuce on the good rug during tea.

We're not being paid to be polite. This is our hobby and this is where we hang out. Our priorities are far different from yours. Our standards of language, civility and conduct differ vastly from the BBS.
Obey the rules, and you won't get sporked. If you do break the rules, you'll do the penalty.

Or as I always ask of impolite and stupid people: "Do I know you? Should I care about what you think?"

But no ones doing that, or only a tiny few. It's like you've become so paranoid and obsessed that you are trying to be 'changed' that you've spun it all out of proportion. People make spelling mistakes, it's one of those little things but there is no need to bring up people on every single one!

If you don't smack a pup with a rolled up paper, how will it learn not to go on your rug?

Seeing as my career is animal care, if you like i could tell you the numerous humane ways of puppy training? Anyway, there is always a choice.. you use a 'rolled up paper' and do something that is uncalled for and meant to be bad, or you use some other way that won't offend and isn't intentionally rude. None of the people making spelling mistakes in this forum are intentionally trying to piss anyone off or be rude, but all the people who reply to these mistakes intentionally mean to be horrible and that is where the politeness is lost on those people.

To borrow a quote from the beautiful Patrick Bateman, I fail to see how this is my problem.

You make it your problem.

ORLY? I even double checked to make sure I didn't embarrass myself, but it didn't help apparently. Thanks, that was graet. I do like to learn.

I'm not the one that looks like Helen Keller has control of their keyboard; problem's not on my end.

Yes.  Yes there is a need.  This is how things ARE.  There is your definition of politeness, which is not currently in effect on MATY.  The norms of behaviour here dictate that we do not tolerate sheep, tardn00bs, and those who otherwise annoy us.  Poor spelling and grammar annoys us.  Actually, rather a lot of things, defined and undefined, annoy us.  This is the way we like it.  If one starts making exceptions for one or two n00bs (Oh, she's just new, young, stupid, whatever...) then we have started down the slippery slope into the mediocre world of happy happy forums, and that would be bad for MOAR FIGHT.  So, as you can see, it is very important to spork every instance whenever possible and lulzy.

So what reaction would you give your child (if you have/had one), say a teenager who had accidently spelled something wrong. If you told them how to spell it properly you wouldn't use any of the language that people use in here. My only point is that on forums where you get people from everywhere, you are going to get mistakes, some people are just excited about getting a point across or something so rush the message. When you read over it, it really doesn't matter if 'their' or 'there' is round the wrong way. It's the content that should be important. But even if you can't help but get bothered by it, there's different ways of going about it. That's all

Hey fuck-knuckle - this is a board designed for 18s, not 12s. Fact of the matter is these tards are *NOT* our children; we don't *HAVE* to hold their hand and tell them they shouldn't lick windows and eat paste. We don't *HAVE* to be nice here. To go back to the analogy from earlier, this is our house and it's our rules - if we want to beat you like a red headed stepchild while you're under our roof, no one can stop us.

Well you turned out to be a wondeful person didn't you. I just think all this is such a shame.

SC, you obviously didn't bother to read much of this forum, did you? Else you'd know it doesn't do polite...if by 'polite' you mean "treacly false welcome topped with passive-aggressive requests and iced with fake smileys when what you really want is to kick those annoying buggers to hell". Your comparison is stupid, because one's own kid <>random annoying douche on the 'net. As for it "doesn't matter if 'their' or 'there'", well...it's good you're in animal edumacation, not people. Although I bet puppies trained by you pee everywhere and on everything, what with your attitude.

P.S.: Oh, I just now noticed your sig is bracketed with ~s. This makes anything you say null and void by default.

Oh sugartits, this is the internet. I don't have to be nice to you because I don't know you from Adam. You're not someone I have to see in meatspace on a daily basis, you have *zero* effect on anything that relates to having an effect on my life. Unlike some of the bleeding axe wounds around here ala Ellatrout, I don't equate people on the internet with meatspace. I'm a totally different person in meatspace because the social norms and contexts dictate that I have to be, because in meatspace I'm in someone else's house and am a guest (see how the analogy keeps working? Damn I'm good). Here it's my house and if I want my feet up on my coffee table I damn well will put them up so get back in the kitchen and bake me a pie or STFU.

Now you know where MATY gets its' reputation. We're the big bullies who insist on proper grammar, spelling and punctuation.

You might think it's a shame, but we certainly don't. Our house, our rules.

There was a speck on your message, I cleaned it up for you.

If you don't like it here, go somewhere else. The majority of forums would actually agree with you about hand holding tards and would welcome you with smileys. You might have to wait a few more days to post about your illegally pirated Sims 3 games at those forums, but once it's been released I'm sure you and all the other n00btards will be much happier in that kind of atmosphere.
People who have been at MATY for a long time choose to stay here because we prefer to not be bothered with trying to decipher the poorly spelled and incomprehensible ramblings of people who can't be bothered to learn their language properly. We don't want to see MATY become like the BBS or all the other happy forums, and we don't appreciate you all streaming in here and demanding we treat you like they do at forums we don't like and don't want to be like.

Yes, we did turn out to be 'wondeful' people ~Jenni~. Thanks for noticing. You may think this is such a shame, I happen to think it's hilarious.

Just because this is "the Internet" does not mean that you should stop using the rules of spelling and grammar. This is not a real time chat room, there are no penalties for taking the time to proofread. Yes, everyone makes mistakes, and around here everyone will jump on the bandwagon of pointing them out. Just acknowledge that you fucked up, correct your mistake, and move on. Butthurt just amuses us more.

Now ~Jenni~, do please carry on being illiterate and retarded. I am out of caffeine and could really use some more stupidity to wake me up.

SimplyComplex, welcome to MATY.  That's the way things are here, and nothing you can do will change that.  Trust me on this one.  Many people have tried.  All have failed.  I gave up long ago.

There's only one person you have to please, and that's Pescado.  None of the others matter.  Pescado likes it when people fight.  Always keep that in mind.

Just don't do anything too stupid.  Grammar and spelling and punctuation mistakes are regarded as stupid.  Proofread before you hit the Post button.

And hang in there.  MATY will always have information you can't get anywhere else, so it's worth putting up with the crap.

Hook

'Lol..' seriously that's all i have to say to both your replies. You are so closed minded you can't see the grey inbetween. Well i tried to put another point across but you're not having any of it so i suppose it's just another shame. Oh gosh, i used wiggles to emphasize my name, that MUST mean i'm a pleb. And my attitude? It's a good one to have, i'm proud of it, i know i'm a fair person. Don't worry though you can have your little obsession back, i can see your never going to open your eyes. Would just be nice if you were nicer to people even when you want to get a grammar point across.

Now that, was a polite reply, Hook.. thankyou. It seems there is hope

Thanks for the clean up. I will do better next time. Gotta re-read all my post before submitting.
How embarrassing-to be caught having a glitch in the post when I'm talking about proper grammar and spelling. Oh, the horror!

Silly Jenni!  There IS no hope! :D

Hook

*smacks it with a rolled up newspaper*

DON'T DOUBLE POST, BAD GIRL! VERY BAD GIRL!

Hey moron, don't double post. The edit button exists for a reason. Use it.


Yes, please do come into my house and tell me how to clean my floor. It's not at all rude.

Actually, I've found the people here to be plenty nice. I have a theory that this is because I'm not a hopelessly ignorant tard.

Miss SquiggleNicetyniceySquiggle, you're getting incoherent on top of tedious. And, well, if you don't like it here, why won't you just go and find somewhere you'll belong? In fact, I know just the place you could fit in. (http://lleo.aha.ru/na/en/)

That's exactly how things are - if you take the time to read the FAQ and don't act like a raving piece of crotch-rot, you'll be accepted and fit in without problems. It's MATY, not nuclear physics...I fail to see how it can be so impossibly hard for some people to grasp the concepts.

Apparently, even though you got several memos, you understood none of them. Nice & MATY are not a chocolate and peanut butter type thing. They do not mix.
Also, unless you plan to write us some lovely beat poems about spring and prostitutes, please capitalize your 'i's.
Thank you.

You do realise how contradictive you all are though right? Because everytime you call me a name or tedious etc. etc, you really are also describing yourselves. Why can't anyone have a calm and mature conversation without all sorts thrown in? And i don't know how i have not shown understanding of your concept of how this site works. And i'm not even one of the type's of people that plaster smilies and 'txtspk' everywhere. All i like is friendliness.

Oh and Edit (should keep you happy): capital i's will make no bloody difference, so no

It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the hose again.

I don't know how well youtube linkage will be appreciated, but every time I read this thread it makes me think of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj6QqCH7g0Q&feature=channel_page).

P.S. Gay Asian Kitten FTW.

For SimplyComplex: I was debating on whether or not to watch you get eaten alive, but I decided to say something. I tend to be a 'nice' guy, yet manage not to get torn to shreds on this website. Consider that fact as I bestow upon you some very valuable advice: Being full of sugar and spice is ultimately your prerogative, and therefore should only affect you. Being a sensitive person doesn't necessarily make you a target on this forum until you begin preaching about morality. This forum is not the real world, there are no injustices to fight, and no one is forcing you to be here. For your own sanity and ours, if you can't handle the brusque atmosphere, then find somewhere else to play.

Some teasing, and insults are simply things to be expected here, and so what if they are? Letting anonymous people over the internet get under your skin is just plain silly. Being a part of this forum means pulling on your big boy/girl pants and understanding that these are people you will most likely NEVER meet in the real world, and therefore anything said or done here should NOT be taken personally.

Jesus, you just don't get it. These are not nice friendly people. If you don't like how they talk to you, stop talking to them. Lurk around, absorb the helpful information, and stay out of the bullshit. If you want a nice friendly forum, go find one, because this isn't it.

Ah, that's where you make your mistake.  MATY is not friendliness, MATY is not calm and mature conversation.  MATY is grabbing a file, ripping into it, talking about the guts of the quivering beast, and then twisting them into a suitable pretzel for everyone's enjoyment.

Hang around for a while and lurk.  For about 3 years.  Then you might understand.

"No U!" as an argument? Rly?  ;D


Mature conversation with someone who uses "No U!" as an argument? Rly?  ;D

You're being defensive.

As kiki and I have already said, we're really very friendly as long you are not a fucking tard. Clearly, you are a tard, ergo we will make fun of you. The fact that you Don't Get This Concept makes me wonder if you have Assburgers. 'Cause rufio doesn't get it either and he's got Assburgers.

PROTIP: When typing the letter "i" in reference to yourself, first hold down the shift key and then press the letter "i".

Wrong. We stay where we belong and where we like to stay. We don't go to your forum to harass you. It's called politeness.


What part of "NO" you didn't understand?
How many people have to repeat that MATY works in this way, we like it as is, and this is NOT about friendliness, AT ALL?
Did you ever READ what has been posted here since?


Wrong. Capital I makes difference here. You don't like it, you go away. Period.

I suppose i'm the type of person who tries to fight their moral corner a little too much. Can't help it. And for the second time, i do get the concept. Of course i'm being defensive, i want to live in a nice world, nice people defend, not nice people attack. But jeez, yes i get the concept! I will get on with it. But i'm not a tard just because i fought from a different corner for a while.

I got confused somewhere along the way in this thread.


There's a gay-for-pay (allegedly straight but has gay sex) porn actor who goes by the same name: Patrick Bateman. At first glance, I'd thought it was him you were referring to, but I realized that that probably wasn't right. Luckily, Google doesn't even know who the porn actor is. :P

And now I'm not confused. So I shall go wash my hands three times now, instead of doing groanings.

Yes, it does make you a tard. Especially for STILL NOT GETTING that you should capitalize your I's.

I already said i'm not going to bother capitalizing my i's. Maybe YOU are the tard for not having read that.

I is a proper pronoun, even I know that and English is not my first language. Which is never an excuse but a good reason for learning from native speakers when they correct your mistakes. With understanding for slip ups because of typing in a rush (you tend to miss stuff when flowing with a thought) doing it on purpose is quite irritating. It's OK if you messed up first time, but after the warning ignoring it... well this is useless. Like talking to a wall. There isn't so much Ban Hammer here though because it's more fun for MATY to eat you alive, I think so.  :D Good Times lol

Most of the forums out there are 'nice', just the way you want it. It is rude of you to come in here and argue that we should also be nice because that's the way you like it. If you don't like this forum, go post in one you do like. Stop telling this forum how you want it to be.

So don't bother capitalizing your I's then. Maybe you should replace them with Ö's too. Ö think that would be, like, really cool.

Thanks for sharing? I'm confused as to why you would bother telling us this though. I mean, there's no links to actual porn and allegedly we can't Google this porn star, so what's the point?

No, you have been called a fuckwit both because I like the term and to provide an example of the fact that the normal rules of politeness are more than a little warped here. The fact is that the use of pejorative terminology towards your fellow posters is not regarded as rude at MATY. Indeed, one might almost conclude that vituperative comments and ad hominem attacks are, if anything, seen as de rigeur. Should you care to investigate the forum as a whole you would soon see that derogatory terminology, insinuation, and even spectacularly insulting lies are not reserved solely for the neophyte posters but are bandied about gleefully amongst even the most venerable MATYzens.

Which being said, of course, MATY regulars do, indeed, tend to give new arrivals a particularly hard time. This serves several purposes. Firstly, it allows us to winnow the recent intake. Those who survive the onslaught with their good grace intact, those who adjust their posting habits in light of the relentless sporking, or those who fight their corner with humour and zeal, they are the wheat from the apocalyptic harvest and they are, quite rightly, retained and valued. Those who display butthurt, meanwhile, or who fail to take on board the viciously-delivered lesson, are considered to be the chaff and are left to blow away in the sour wind of failure. Secondly, it discourages at least some contributors from continuing to repeat their mistakes, whether that be by means of taking the time to couch their messages in terminology and structure that is less likely to attract the opprobrium of the MATY regulars or, alternatively, by simply not posting so frequently, if at all. Thirdly, and this, perhaps, is the most important purpose of all, it affords us a great deal of entertainment, both from the inept flailings of those who take it all to heart and from the simple enjoyment to be garnered from witnessing an exquisitely barbed dart being delivered with precision and style.

I don't care if you "won't bother" with it. We're saying do it or GTFO. You do not seem to understand this. This makes you a tard. You have been told, repeatedly, to follow our rules or go away. How is this so hard to grasp? Post properly or not at all. OK? OK.

Also, stop abusing your poor language. What has it ever done to you?

Do you feel important enough to capitalize your "I(s)"?  I do.  See how easy that is?  Self-importance through better capitalization...screw your morals.  No one cares.

This is an intelligent forum of intelligent people who put a lot of hard work and effort on their own time, without being paid, in order to help you and possibly make your game better.  The least, the very least you can do is show a little thanks and respect by posting like you are not, in fact, an idiot.  Pretend if you must.

If the site owner tells me to spell my i's as capitals then i will, thats fair enough. But to say someone isn't intelligent all because of a capital here and there on a forum? Come on, please. Like intelligence comes down to that. You could be a bloody heart surgeon yet be dyslexic. I thought you also said tedious people were tards.. well thats you all still included. My god, now it's all coming down to an 'i'. I I I I I I I I I I I I I oooooo bet you feel good now! Have you got tingles.

If only there was some way for new members to get a feel for how things work around here before they go and make fools of themselves...  ::)


Intelligent people can make mistakes, yes, but the difference between them and you is that they take the criticism given to them and try to learn from it. They don't throw a hissy fit when someone presents them with the opportunity to better themselves.

SimplyComplex, if you don't like how people interact with each other here then don't get involved; your opinion is not that valuable or important. I don't know why you feel the need to try and point out the "error" of our ways, in doing so you are being much more rude than the people you are criticising.

Look, site owners are busy people. We have Grammar Police for that. Notice how OTHER sites have piles of moderators, but *WE* have GRAMMAR POLICE. There's a reason for that. Quit being a stupid.

Hmm, yeah, because asking why people are so harsh is more rude than calling a stranger a fuck-whatever. Ok.

You now understand MATY! :D

El Presidente has spoken.  Please use proper capitalization and punctuation and spelling and grammar.  You'll be glad you did.

Hook

No reason, really.

http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/71077
http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/72651
http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/85153
http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/85429
http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/90113
http://www.gay-torrents.net/torrent/90259

Or was that a rhetorical statement?

Well i (shit no what was i thinking, so close),  'I' strangely enjoyed this.

You asked, and you were told that it's because we like it that way. You then proceeded to lecture that we are wrong, and that we should change to suit you.

Yes, it is. You're new here. Do you walk into your neighbors house and start to criticize how they clean? Do you stop strangers on the street and ask them why they are wearing plaid shorts with a paisley shirt? You don't do those things because it's rude. Same thing applies to Internet communities. This is our house. Follow our rules and social conventions.

Fuck-knuckle, sweetheart. I called you a fuck-knuckle. *pet pet*

LOL!  Yes, that's another thing that MATY is for -- enjoying in a strange way.

A) 'I' said fuck-whatever because different words including fuck were said.
B) 'I' never said anyone should change to suit me.. this is where your paranoia comes in
C) Actually in places when people were getting unfairly treated i WOULD interfere.

Your one type of person, and 'I'm another so don't tell me what 'I'm doing, what 'I' might do or the manner in which 'I'm saying something.

You're.  For "You are".

We need a sheep bingo.  Squares can include:
"Grammar doesn't matter"
"There's no need to be mean"
"I work in _ in real life, I know more than you, why you make fun?"
"WWJD"
"I am dyslexic"

Extra BBS style square:
"OMG, what if there are children here? Will you be mean to them too?"

You never used the words 'you should change to suit me', but you did point out that we are not polite and implied that we should be, and gave pointers about different ways we could go about it.

And since when, forcing other people in their home to suffer your annoyance is polite? You're demanding we change in people who don't care about your rudeness, so yes, you said that.

So even if 'I' did point out things, that still wasn't saying you should change, so 'I' was right. And i've also not demanded anything. It's like you've had your own conversation with me where you've decided what i've said. If you don't think you are doing anything wrong then perhaps i'm not doing anything wrong either. It works both ways, but you seem to think only your way is the right way. I said yonks ago that 'I' get the concept of this site and i'll get on with it, but you still can't stop at that. Everything i've said had got twisted anyway so my original posts have become something they were never meant to be.

Snuffelbutt, if all of us are reading your posts in this way and that's not what you were trying to say, maybe you should be more careful of how you express yourself. You can't really expect us to know what you mean if it is not what you write, can you?

As far as i knew 'I' wrote how 'I' meant things to be taken, but 'I' mustn't have written it easy enough for you because it ended up not being taken that way. So perhaps we BOTH made a mistake. Maybe you should have been more careful how you took it.

What I am saying is that all the regulars here, plus some helpful long-lurking n00bs have interpreted your posts in the same way. Not just me. If we are not getting what you mean, you should express it differently.

And maybe you should open your minds to the fact people can mean things differently to how you would assume.

Okay, stop with the 'I' crap.  That is childish and definitely not what was asked of you.  Your obvious butthurt over being told that you're not following the forum rules is just showing again with this latest post you've made.  Just stop arguing and trying to justify your stupidity already and get with the program or leave.  It's simple really, and you're not doing yourself any favors by keeping this up.

Different "from", not "to".  There is so much that is grammatically wrong with that sentence.  Tut.

But really, this is degenerating into "Didn't!"  "Did too!"

There ya go, someone else who has told me what i am apparently feeling and apparently doing. And being just as tedious as me. Childish to make an 'I' standout, but not childish to pull up every typo? Again, okaaaay. And if i'm like that why do you feel the need to HAVE to say something. Anyway i said my piece, you all said yours, no ones been wrong. A site has the right to ask for something, i had the right to stand up for people not deserving names of all kinds. Both disagree with the other but i had posted telling i understood. I'ts kinda been over for ages now.

LOL.  I don't know about everyone else, but for me?  It's because it's Friday afternoon, it's so hot that all the cats are drowsing in the shade, my hard drive is taking forever to defrag and it's more fun to prod the MATY forum than anything else right now.

So, you're saying we should redefine the actual meanings of words and phrases to fit whatever it is you're trying
to express?
That's a fantastic idea and I'm sure it will be implemented right away.

No, i was simply saying that you're fast to blame me for the fact you took me the wrong way, without thinking that perhaps you had something to do with it too. And again, assuming the way i said something. If i had meant to say 'you should redefine the actual meanings of words and phrases to fit whatever someone is trying to say', i would have said that. So please just stop jumping to the worst possible side of the spectrum of what one can mean.

We can only take things the way you type them.  That is what everyone is saying.

If we all typed our words without taking any care to make them form sentences that mean what we wish to say to the majority of people who read them, then we would be unable to communicate effectively.

Hooray! This noob brings us gay pronreaux! I vote we keep this one.

The simple truth is this: these people are not capable of dictating terms to another human face-to-face, so they take the easier (and slightly cowardly) alternative - to attack and gang up on 12 year olds on the internet, who dared to make a spelling mistake.
And how pitiful are thee.

Precisely.
Everyone is 'blaming you' for having failed to express yourself clearly because you failed to express yourself clearly.
If you frequent other forums, you may be aware that each has it's own standards and codes of conduct. Such is the case with MATY.

You are being cited for failure to comply. Lack of compliance generally results in being poked with sharp sticks and eventually killed with fire.

It's not as simple as that because they came back at me telling me i meant things that i had never written. Twisting ways i had worded things. Like some of the examples i brought up. The words i use are the words i mean, if i don't say things like 'i think you should all change for me' then thats what i meant to not put. But i've had people coming back to me with 'oh so you want us to change for you' type thing. Near the beginning i said how a spelling mistake is so bad, and i got things back saying that you basically have no intelligence if you don't capitalize something etc. So from asking an innocent enough question, people make it personal by stating what a person is if they don't spell the way THEY want. Then telling me how i don't get the way it works here even though more than once i had stated i understood. So if i took care to make it clear i understood, yet still got people repeating themselves that i didn't, just who has made the mistake there. Not me! Bottom line on the subject of this thread though, is that this site would still be good and non-n00bish even if people forgot the odd apostrophe or capital. The odd grammar drop isn't the same as people coming on going 'yo peepz, sims 3 iz da bomb (or not as the case may be) ^.^ w00t'. And it seems to be that people don't want THAT type on here?

Oh, and I'm dyslexic.  Do you know what I do when typing?  Unless I'm in an MMO and about to die, I -spellcheck-.  I make sure my spelling makes sense because 'hsit' does not make sense, but this does.

And when I have typed in another language, I do the same thing, since with my limited vocabulary, I could accidentally say that my mother is a kumquat, which also would make no sense.

This thread has murdered me from the laughing.

It's just that in this day its natural to not worry too much about grammar on the net. And we're not even talking about jumbled up words here, they're on about things like not capitalising an 'I'. While some people may be anal about spelling, this type of mishap won't in any way affect a post.

Judging by your avatar, I'd say that would make perfect sense.


You can't call it a mishap when you've clearly indicated that you're doing it intentionally.

That's what you meant to not put? Well congratulations, you not putted the hell out of it.

We keep saying that you don't understand because you are not making any changes in your behavior that show you understand.
Your post above is not 'lacking the odd apostrophe', it's riddled with errors and just damn annoying to read.
This what we DO NOT WANT.

And they aren't asking you to spell the way they want, they're asking you spell things the way they are spelled. Spelling is not
subjective, you nit.

You do realize that '12s' does not actually refer to twelve year olds, right? Right?


Just fucking kill yourself.

Jenni, some friendly advice.  You can't win, as hundreds have found out before you.  Don't fight it.  Clean up your posts as best you can, and don't argue with the criticisms.  Every word you type in your own defense is a word you aren't typing in a contribution to the game.

For most of us, lousy grammar/spelling/capitalization/punctuation/usage is annoying.  So at least try, ok?

Hook

Aforementioned noob does appear to have some authority on gay pr0n, which is a highly marketable skill of course.. It would behoove us to accept him into the fold.

Hey Merle, long time no peep. Glad you are undaunted by our vish 12s.  ;)

Thats just the way i type. I don't use silly n00b speak, or 'pmsl' everywhere, but yeah, i do cut corners with capital I's. And it's not riddled with errors. And 'in your opinion is annoying', yes. I also love the way you use 'we' to refer to yourselves. It's like your a cult or something. You seem to forget you don't own the site, even if you feel you are some type of minion. Pescado hasn't once really said anything himself about how to behave with grammar, this thread wasn't even created by him! I said i understood, now you are telling me AGAIN that i don't and telling me the reason why you think it. I'm careful that i type things to an 'alright' standard, but i know i just won't be able to keep to making sure every tiny thing is done 'the proper' way. And it has nothing to so with doing it 'intentionally'. It's my habit, but it gets me by. If the guy in charge asks me to try harder than perhaps it's more worth thinking about.  

I'm not trying to 'win' anything. Was just having a conversation

GO MASTURBATE ON LJ, WDC.

If you understand, why are you continuing to post like an idiot without proper capitalization?  Do you think you are going to win the day with all your "i mean this, i mean that, by all means i understands?"  We repeat ourselves because you seem to need the repetition in order to learn.  Rather like a dog learning a new trick, you are.  Sadly, most dogs would have learned by now.  You are the unfortunate tard dog that insists on pissing the rug though it should know better.  You will be assessed and treated as such.  Enjoy your time here, SimplyStupid.

Oh, no worries... I'll probably go MIA again in less than a week, completely independent of 12s population. It is my way.

On the other hand, you may see me around.. I'm desperate to mod the cocoon baby blanket and pudding-face textures. Only time will tell.  ;)

Proper capitalization is important, SimplyComplex. As you will know if you have ever had to help your uncle Jack off a horse.

Well i may not spell like some people want me to, but i have more intelligence than to resort to stupid name calling.

Does jacking off a cat count? Because i've done that  :-X all in the name of vet care though lol.

*sigh* Typing to your 'alright standard' is not going to cut it here. Your 'alright' is our horrible. 'We', and 'our', meaning the majority of
people who are regular posters and who prefer this standard. The citizenry, the MATYians.
And what do you mean 'cut corners with capital I's'? The shift key is no further when typing an 'I' as it is for any other letter, and
there is no shortage of capital letters as far as I know.

That was a brilliant, vivid illustration.

I really don't think you want Pes to come in here to tell you anything.  You're likely to just get summarily nuked if he has to trouble himself with you.

There are so many things wrong with this I can't even pick one to start with.

Yet you had to take the time to state it?

Grammar Police has been sanctioned by JMP.  He is a manager who knows how to delegate.

Read the FAQ (also sanctioned by JMP).  Stop acting like a 12.  

We ARE a cult, you know.  And we don't like you.

Uh, yes. Yes it does.

Oh i'm just distraught.. Really.

Pescado TOLD you IN THIS THREAD that he delegates to Grammar Police, dumbass.  Also, make LESS mistakes when you're telling people you "understand" otherwise you end up sounding like a moron who doesn't understand, surprisingly enough.  Your writing IS riddled with errors, and it seems like you haven't taken the care to even think about what you're typing, let alone check it for mistakes.


How clear does he have to be, exactly?  You do NOT want him coming to your house to explain it to you.

SimplyWhatever was going on about it specifically in a way that indicated complete ignorance of Pescado-approved aging increments, though.

That's another person to the list that has told me what i'm doing, AND resorted to name calling. Also, as i've said - i type what i mean to say.. so what the hell is the point in quoting me only to redo what i've typed. Dense or what.



Erm, i wasn't the one that said this sentence about 12 year olds. Oops@you.

If you understood how it works here, you wouldn't continue to post comments full of un-capitalized "i"s and various other grammatical errors, while still expecting anyone here to take you seriously.  It. Will. Not. Happen.

I just caught this. Merle, I don't know you, but I see you are beloved around here. I will join your cult--and I do not join them lightly--if you were somehow to remove or improve the Larval Babies. I do not understand why there are Larval Babies. Their inflexible cocoons confuse and enrage me.

Oh, look.  SimplyComplains got canned.  My day is complete :-)

I quoted you to respond to you, which you would have noticed, had you bothered to read what I typed as well as my corrections.  I corrected your mistakes to show you that your posts are full of errors, even when you claim they're not.  People are resorting to name-calling because you don't seem to read anything other than insults.  If I am the dense one in this situation, I hate to think of the pressure placed on your spine by your head.  I told you what you were doing because you don't seem to know what you're doing - I did not make up anything about you.

She wanted the FOJ to get involved, well, it looks like she got her wish. Congrats SimplyStupid.

And just when I was going to tell her to give birth to a pineapple backwards.

Hooray! Hope you enjoyed your time with the grownups, SimplyFucktarded. Enjoy your stay in RetardoLand. Meet your new cellmate, Celestard.

*puts a Will Wright mask on SimplyFucktarded*

Yes, one should be careful what one asks for, especially when one has already been told to BLS.

Well, the larval babies obviously don't have any realistic animations under the blanket, as it would be useless to create animations you wouldn't be able to see. So removing the blanket would just result in a stiff mummy baby. I just figured I'd replace those awful, sexually stereotyped, abominations they've wrapped them in with something cute and neutral.. Like little fleece blankets with pastel stripes or stars.

No, you are an idiot that serves as a wonderful example to all other newcomers.  Assimilate or suffer the indignation.  Third option, get your insipid ass out of our clubhouse and go cry to your mommy.  Perhaps she will appreciate your gallant struggle to dumb-down the internet through baseless argument.  She might even place you in the princess chair with your special "i can type any way i feel 'cause i are smart on the inside" hat and throw you a fucking party.

Go whore yourself somewhere else.  We do not buy your ilk.

ETA:
A canning!  Congrats SimplyStupid, a party indeed.

Politeness: Not selfishly spamming an already totally overloaded board with unfounded self-righteousness* when many users have legitimate business to conduct.


*As opposed to my totally ...founded?... self-righteousness.

Really? Somehow I'd convinced myself they'd copy-pasted the baby animations from TS2, and they were all occurring under there somewhere; but that someone had decided that what the next installment of the series really needed was sandworm-like swaddling cloths for the babbies.

Ah well.

When you are responding to a specific person, it is the norm to quote specifically what they said that you are responding to. Unlike
yourself, most people do not just post in whatever way feels 'alright' to them.

They post so that other people can understand them, following guidelines that the general citizenry recognizes.

I just noticed that all of your arguments seem oddly familiar. I suspect you sprang full grown from our resident 'tard's thick head.
I don't think there's a position for a vice-tard, so you may go at any time.

This is a misreading. Pescado himself told the noobs to mind their expression, but since they won't listen he advocated a different form of action. That isn't a decree that information is more important, nor that the threadshitting was inherently wrong. Since it wasn't working, we are changing tactics.

Nice to see you are reacting to your ouster by becoming even more of an irrelevant jerk.

Zucabr is not actually a n00b.


First post was 12 days after registration. All posts appear to have been grammatical and either constructive or humorous or both. Now he also provides pr0n.

Looks like we already kept him.

This.

You certainly do your homework. My apologies to the not-a-noob, then. Clearly Zucabr is an even more skilled lurker than I.

Actually, smacking a puppy with a rolled up paper is exactly the wrong way to go about it. All you teach the puppy is to be afraid of newspapers, and you. The correct training method is to scoop up the puppy as soon as it starts to squat, and place it outside. This would also be applicable in the case of dumbass shit-for-brains BBS refugees.

And this is an excuse? Nay, this only proves that things have degenerated to unacceptable levels on forums at large. I'm sorry, but just because N99 jumps off a bridge, it doesn't mean MATY should.

Wow, this is why I stay in my corner and keep my mouth closed.

SimplyComplex and the rest of the please overlook my behavior/spelling/or what the fuck ever crew should take notes. MATY is full of knowledge and information however you will get more from observing rather than pressuring or ass kissing.

One last thing, you will never ever, ever fucking win. So give in or get out.

Oh my! The first one with Leo was one I didn't have, thanks so much! (And it is nice to see someone else uses the same porn torrent site I use, it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.)

Yes you should have.


This sentence is incomprehensible.  It lacks proper punctuation, and is missing a somewhere in the sentence.  Might I encourage you to try a remedial English class?  LURK MOAR.


Good advice.  Take it.

How well has it ever worked, really?  You end up poking some animal with sharp sticks until it no longer recognizes friend from foe or El Presidente from the common rabble.  

Occasionally you get some idiot who defends typing in a monolithic block of all caps.  Those people, you go out of your way to hurt.  Badly.  This one was stupid enough to defend typing "I" in lower case.  Not as bad, but definitely deserved to have the transgressions pointed out.  If a few friendly reminders don't correct the behavior, THEN you escalate.  The boss who is forced to part an employee's hair with a monkey wrench has failed as a manager somewhere along the line.  If SC hadn't been totally on the defensive, you might have been able to change her behavior.

Hook

There were a number of friendly warnings issued.

It's not like our modus operandi is not well known around Sims forums.  Why n00bs come to MATY and feel that somehow the MATY culture just doesn't apply to them, because they're so speshul, is beyond my comprehension.

I mean, LOOK at this:

It's a parody - it's like one sheep trying to spork another sheep, for BEING a sheep.  No recognition that they're both mutton kebabs.

Most of us know using a conjunction to start a sentence is bad form in proper English and grammar. Conjunctions are used to connect words not start sentences.


EDIT: Corrected my own use of Conjunction at the start of a sentence. Stoopid me.

But we do it anyway. :D :D :D

On the other hand, a preposition is a bad thing to end a sentence with.

Hook

I'll just go back in my corner now. Thanks and bye.

This is an outdated rule and something that can be used occasionally for effect. I would question your comma use in that sentence, bee tee double u.

What next, arguing that we should adopt the new spelling of "cooky?"

I'm finding it incredibly ironic that it either refuses to capitalize the 'I', or leaves it out of the sentence altogether, but is so obviously full of self importance.
Why this aversion to giving the personal pronoun it's proper due, while insisting on special treatment for itself?

What manner of psychosis is this? Someone with learnings of psychology please explain.

Did someone miss that mickeyjr started that sentence with a conjunction?  On purpose? :D

Gotta love it!

Hook

I had always thought it was spelled "kooky". Though now I crave a cookie.

Very well, have it your way.  Corrected.  Now you'll likely point out that this post does not include complete sentences.  There is some license to use conversational speech constructions, lolcat speak, and other "non-standard" forms of phrasing.  You have to know when this is appropriate in the given cultural context.  Similarly, you might want to consider the appropriateness of strangers coming into your house to criticise your table manners.

I have, this time, picked up my fork in "deference" (and I use the word advisedly) to your sensibilities.  Pray don't make me use it.

LOL, yes I did. Talk about noobism. I should have started it with however or something like that. I wasn't paying attention and it bit me in the ass.

P&L at me. Teach me for correcting someone. I think I'll go LURK MOAR.
No, I screwed up using "Yet". I will pay for it I'm sure.

/me thinks mickeyjr is campaigning for the Ms. Sheeple contest.

No, I would have to do far more to even be in that running.

Campaigning is dangerous, based on precedent, since it may bite you in the ass. On the other hand, bribery is always a good strategery.

Aw, man... I figured you did it intentionally.  You should have taken the ball and run with it.  Still, no one seems to have noticed, or they'd have given you shit for it.

Hook

Edited twice to fix my leet quoting skills.

And here I was assuming that it was a fuck up. Nice try, though, Hook.

It turns out it WAS a fuck up, and a glorious one at that.  Complaining about starting a sentence with a conjunction while starting that very same complaint with a conjunction.  How good does it get? I mean, NO one fucks up THAT badly. :D

Hook

I really wish you didn't ask, because now I have to muse over it.

According to handwriting analysis, the ‘I' is in relation to the parental influence. It is the height of the upper letters that foretell of someone's level of self-importance.

For instance, a written capital ‘I' that is closed on the top, suggests a person that is maternally influenced; if closed at the bottom, the influence is fraternal  paternal - closed at both ends or not closed at all should be apparent at this point, and a straight ‘I' in handwriting is a sign of an orphan or someone who feels no connection to their parents.

Perhaps the refusal to capitalize one's ‘I' in type has something to do with defiance against one's parents, and a need to prove and enforce upon one's own individuality, which almost seems to be the case here.

Hm, sounds like numerology to me.  I assume you mean "paternal" rather than "fraternal"... that one confused me a bit at first.

Perhaps you can supply pics of said differences.  I can't visualize them from your descriptions.

Hook

You do know you've been nominated, yes?

Yes. However, my noobism hasn't been on the scale of some of the other noobs. I might put my foot in my mouth, as above, but I know when to own up and shut up. My last thread taught me that. Think it is time for me to go back into LURK MOAR mode for a while.

Psst. Hook. We know who you are, your lecherness. You don't need to sign your posts. Ta ta now.

My bad. Corrected, and thanks.

Is this what you meant?

(http://www.m4hire.com/misc/new-1.jpg)

*laughs* I suppose it could, if not for the fact that its watermelon on the avatar's head, not a kumquat at all.  The point I was attempting to make to the now banished annoyance was that there is -no- excuse for glaring spelling and punctuation marks.  Even being dyslexic isn't an excuse.

I'm reasonably sure that the Hookster is aware that signing his posts is not obligatory. I am, furthermore, pretty much certain that he chooses to sign his posts. I am also confident that Hook is grown up enough for you to be explicit with your comments. If you want to say: "Hook, stop signing your posts!" then simply say it. This coy, sly obfuscation is beneath you and, might I add, disrespectful given the years of e-lechery that have been so selflessly provided by the esteemed former Senator.

Ah, this is why even though I've been in the Simming communities since the dawning of Sim time, I rarely post unless there's something important to say (or something random, as this shit-thread obviously dictates) because who wants to look like a tard on the internets?  Only a...well, tard.

One should always associate one's self with a forum's etiquette before becoming a full-fledged member in order to look a little less like a speshul snowflake.  It's also known as LURK MOAR as has been pointed out, time and time again!

(I used to be an administrator on several forums and am an insane Grammar Nazi according to my speshul husband.)

I would like to refer everyone of the original post. The following quote in particular:


I would have posted this earlier yet was afk, so I think all of you should be feeling bad about yourselves in the handling of the new can. It was meant to be handled via PM not sporks in thread, shame on you all.

[14:23] <Rhayden> Hey Hook.
[14:23] <Hook> Hey Rhayden :)
[14:23] <Rhayden> Do me a favor and stop signing your posts like a fucking 12-year-old girl.

Like this?

Exactly.  Thanks.  Do people actually do that?

Hook (who has been signing his online posts since before most of you were born)

Rhayden, I thought about that, but that shows actual annoyance. I'm not that annoyed. Hence, I was intentionally coy. Good to know that translated well.

I thought about that, but I thought maybe he was referring only to threads where the subject was not some sort of ass-hattery or related tardism.  Still, I've sent two PM sporks, and received utterly no reply.  How unsatisfying.

What does it say about me if I always write I in print, even when the rest of my writing is (mostly) in cursive?

Write like that? Yes.
Or perform Handwriting analysis? Also, yes - great party perk.

Dude, you can't even spell your username. Insane, possibly. Grammar anything, I think not.

It says that you are a cock-headed fucknut that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

That you fail at writing in cursive.  ;)

Damn! Both beaten and outdone by a non-n00b.  I have much to learn, it seems.

I write in a mesh of cursive and print. My "I" is always in print. I are fucknut, too?

To be taken with a grain of salt:

It depends. If a person writes with an open ‘I', without being crossed at the top or bottom, they have an orphaned attitude about themselves - as already stated. They possibly didn't spend much time with their parents, or they had to physically raise themselves, or felt like they did - depending on the situation. This creates an individual that isn't influenced by either parent since neither parent made much of an impact.

If it's a closed ‘I', that is both crossed at the top and bottom, I believe it hints at resentment or enforcement in regards to a person's parent(s), or possibly a feeling of being overburdened/cut off by one or both of them depending on where the stronger cross is. If I recall correctly, the general rule is to just imagine both the maternal and/or paternal influence cutting off the individual and stopping them from going in either direction. (i.e.: Dad wants son to be a doctor; son wants to be a video game designer = loss of opportunity is met with resentment)

It's been a while since I studied all of this (back in the early nineties and mostly out of curiosity) so, I may be a little rusty, and of course, the rest of the handwriting helps to paint a better picture and can give a better hint at what is going on.

None of this is gospel though - I just find it interesting because it's fun.

Sounds a bit like those games where you add up all the letters from your name and your crush's name to find out if it's TWU WUV to me.  What if my entire handwriting style is heavily influenced by the fact that I apparently never learned correct penmanship, and writing for more than about ten seconds at a time causes horrible pain in my wrist which inevitably turns any further writing into a wibbly unintelligible mess?

I know I'm going to get my ass kicked but I could not resist. Nine pages of totally irrelevant shit. And I read (past tense) every last page because this site cracks me up.

Then the analysis of your handwriting would be incorrect.

Grammar is never irrelevant on MATY.

Gelatinous - how would you come up with a "true" analysis of my handwriting, then?  What innate properties about me, besides the dexterity of my hands and the way I was taught to write English, have anything to do with how my handwriting turns out?

What is this meant to do? Make us feel sorry for you because you have poor impulse control?

At least you found a point.  I was not so lucky.  I am still scratching my head like a cock-notched fucknut wondering what Simchicks are talking about and, perhaps more importantly, why.

Failing to capitalize "I" shows a diminishing of self. In this case, the insistent use of the uncapitalized pronoun plus the poster's extreme defensive posture point to a serious inferiority complex. Poor baby doesn't like herself very much, but deeply resents that anyone would point that out. I'd guess she needs some couch time.

I'll now resume teh lurk.

There's no need to signpost your tense. We are not illiterate. Unless that's meant to be a joke, in which case it majorly fails. Here's a question for the floor: if you know that what you're going to say is stupid and pointless, why on earth would you bother to post it?

Rohina already answered that for us with "lack of impulse control."

Maybe a nod to your lack of impulse control? Why don't you just ignore me? I'm curious; Do you all act like this in real life or is there some transformation when you log onto MATY?

Supposedly, there are subconscious aspects at play.

With disabilities in mind, these aspects of a person's handwriting should remain fairly consistent:

The tilt (left/right) suggests how introverted/extroverted a person is. If it goes in both directions during a sentence, mood swings and flightiness are apparent.

The height of the upper stems of letters like ‘h', ‘l', ‘b' suggest how far a person is willing to strive for knowledge. The width of those upper stems suggests how inflated their ego is.

‘t' and ‘d' are a bit different though; their height reveals individuality. If the stems are short, the person is more of their own individual.

The heaviness of the cross to a ‘t' shows how much staying power a person has (will they follow through? How much effort will they put into it? Do they do it with flair?).

The reach of the lower stems (‘y', ‘g', ‘p') suggest how much of a root that person has and how much emphasis they put on family and friends. Fat curves that close show a person that hangs onto their friends and family more than someone that drops their letters off in a straight line, etc… etc…

Heaviness of print up to the type of pen a person chooses to use (fine or bold) all tell a little bit of something about a person, as well as how close the letters in a word are in comparison to actual word spacing and the base-line direction.

Also, they say that people that break between printing and writing within a word or sentence tend to be more intuitive than someone who doesn't - the more broken the word is toward print, the more intuitive.

And like Hook said earlier, it does sound very much like numerology, doesn't it?

I second this. I recently wrote a research paper on "Internet Socializing" and "Online Communities" and NOT to my surprise the findings indicated that over 30% of the users in these communities seem to develop a second persona, which is usually close to the opposite or the exact opposite of their true personality of the outside world.

We're actually much meaner in real life. We try to curb our behavior here, give people the benefit of the doubt, yadda, yadda. Always remember, we don't know you; we probably don't like you. Our responses to your drivel will likely reflect these feelings. If you can show yourselves to be made of stern stuff, can take some sporking and come back with a pithy retort, you might be accepted here. Otherwise, GTFO. Thanks.

Oh, and, generally speaking to all that is MATY noobdom, stop with the "Pes" already. He REALLY doesn't know you and he likes you even less than the rest of us do. He's not your BFF, FFS.

...or astrology. I learned cursive early, on my own. It was only in fifth grade that I decided to relearn how to print. I've always blamed that for the way I switch between the two, definitely mid-word. There are definite patterns I can see to it, but it's nothing I try to do. An 's' at the end of a word is in print, mid-word it's cursive. I hate cursive 'x', so that's always print. The same with 'Q'. Who came up with that, anyways? How is a 2 a Q?

My 'I' has top and bottom bars, and I get along just fine with my parents. I just spoke to both today. Mom's hooking me up with some networking contacts, and Dad's all excited about some stupid Nascar Race and their anniversary tomorrow.

In real life, I say "Yay" about pretty much everything. That would not be appreciated here. But other than that, yes, I'm pretty much the same.  Perhaps more profane.

Do people become spineless illiterate sheep when they log onto the BBS or N99?
Should I log on there and rant about how nice they are being makes me want to puke? Will they just "ignore me"?
I am sure that would be frowned upon, as you coming here and spouting off about our culture is.

No, I believe it. It is a lot easier to say things online that you wouldn't say in real life. However, if 30% of the users are the opposite of how they appear to be online then 70% of them are exactly what they seem to be. That means that the majority of us here at MATY are just as likely to make people cry in real life as we are here.

I'm trying to understand how a post about something as simple as grammar has gotten ten pages worth of replies. Why is it such a difficult task for people to type correctly? If we knew the meaning, would that unlock the secrets of the universe, perhaps?  ???

It also means that 7 out of 10 of the sheep really are illiterate, retarded 12s in real life, whilst the remaining 3 are educated, intelligent, mature adults who choose to act as though they are brattish, egotistical children. If anything I hate the latter more than the former.

It sounds like your writing is similar to mine - I can't write for dren.

I could also be wrong about the closed 'I'. Like I said, it was some time ago that I had an interest in all of this, and for some weird reason, I can remember quite a bit of it - perhaps I use it on a subconscious level - but not all of it.

Now I have this sudden urge to dig up my books and check to see if I was even remotely close about that closed ‘I'.

Not tonight though, I promised my daughter I'd take her to the cabin for the weekend.


I don't really see why any of that matters.

The difference between AFK and MATY is that AFK I get PAID to act like this.

Fixed.

No, she had it right.


Away from keyboard is not a place you are at, it is a verb.

Not being a grammar cop, I still think rohina's version looks moar correct.

Edit. Ninja'd by a n00b.

D'oh!  Not knowing what 'AFK' was, and assuming it was the anagram of her workplace, I put my foot in it.  Mea culpa.

There's no apostrophe when using the possessive form of the word "it".

I personally think many of the problems IRL stem from over use of a false sense of politeness and consideration.  I find the uninhibited blunt forthrightness of MATY refreshing and believe strongly that more MATY-like behaviour IRL is eminently worthwhile.  A stupid stranger IRL deserves no more of my consideration, and is of no more consequence to me than a stupid n00b on MATY.  I am, consequently, quite like my MATY persona IRL.  N00bs can rest comfortably knowing that if I call you a fuckwit here, I would likely call you a fuckwit IRL.  Does that help?  I personally find it reassuring.

Also, BFFs are for 12s, and 12s are surplus to MATY requirements.  GET OFF OUR LAWN!

……………./´¯/)
……………/…./
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……../´¯/'..'/´¯¯`·¸
…../'/../…./……./¨¯\
…('(…………. ¯~/'..')
….\…………….'…../
…..'\'……………_.·´
…….\…………..(
……..\…………..\

When I see stupid n00bly posts from SimplyConstipated like this:


They wind up sounding like this:


This particular sheeple is giving JonaFootbullets a run for its money.

As someone else who has been in the Simming communities since the dawning of Sim time, I am often amazed at how many people do plunge straight in without lurking for a while.

Ah, those were the days.  Usenet, that's where we used to hang out before all these modern web-based forums sprouted and yes, we signed our online posts ;  it's not a 12-year-old foible at all.

Awwww...my first boob noob sporked to cannage. *wipes away a tear of pride* If only mamma could see me now!

Yeah, um, good eye, there. I like to, yeah, um, intentionally throw in obvious mistakes just to see who catches them. Yeah, that's the ticket...



Dammit!!!

Watch out, you will be hooked now.

I have dyslexia. I don't post often because I am not awesome. All who are not awesome should follow my advice.

Lurk MOAR.
STFU.
J.M. has a pack of wild boars, ready to climb right up your ass. All will celebrate as they violate you in ways that cannot be imagined by those who haven't experienced it.

From ThyGuy's signature:


I am so using this in the future. Also, good advice. Why is it that only the smart ones actually take this advice though? It's one of those vicious circle thingies. The ones smart enough to do what ThyGuy advises would probably be just fine on the forum. The ones who need to take the advice never do. Le Sigh.

Stop the language abuse. For just minutes a day, you too can end the cycle of abuse. Millions of literate adults will stop sporking you.

Ah, that.  My hands type slower than my mind can think, sometimes, so I end up looking stupid, and such was the case when I made this account years ago.  I didn't make another account to fix the mistake because that's generally a big no-no and seen as trolling on other sites, so I decided to just stick with it and let people point and laugh. 

Of course, I hang out on 4chan regularly, so perhaps the stupidity is rubbing onto me somewhat.  Uh oh.

You don't need to; just go in your profile and modify it. You username (the one with which you login) remains the same, but you can modify the visible one, i.e. the one which is displayed.

Oh, for Christ's sake.  I wish I'd known that long ago.  Didn't realize this board had that function.  Thank you so much for that tidbit of knowledge!   I decided to shorten it as well since it's rather long.

An example of an ESL that not only does not have to worry about the Grammar Cops, but has a better grasp of English than many of our regulars.

I know plenty of ESLs on other forums, and you wouldn't know they are foreign if they didn't say so.  I remember an Argentian friend talking about how difficult it is to decipher a post full of "ur, 4 shurs, and !!!!!111!!!" when English isn't his mother tongue.  Of course, those of us who were sick of the 12s with whom we were being bombarded on a daily basis (tl;dr:  this was because another friend ran a website that was dedicated to an animated show, but the forum was supposed to be strictly 18+) told him that we were sincerely grateful for the effort that he and the other foreign fans put into making their posts legible, and we wished that our own American youth could be bothered to do so.

It's sad, really.  I noticed that my son's teachers don't bother to correct his spelling or grammar on most of his assignments because it's "the substance that matters" to them.  Apparently, AOLspeak is changing the way papers are graded.  Why in the hell has it become commonplace?   

What mostly surprises me is the amount of attention that people with bad grammar get, I figure that in the future, if I want to get attention, all I need to do is to use bad/worse grammar and presto, pages and pages dedicated to me. It sounds cheap.

*Delurks*

I am... Both flattered, and afraid that I will now be in the searchlight of the GP. At least I now know that someone bothered to read my post, although an answer to my question is still nowhere to be found. Thank you for the comment lemmiwinks, it means a lot to me.

The Grammar Police have made it quite clear that they target abuse by people who should know better.
A person using ESL poorly, but making an effort to do so correctly, is not considered a target. In some cases I have seen them help struggling ESLs solve language problems.
Native speakers who use English stupidly are the ones who should be afraid.

Don't worry; I'm the worst ESL around here - I envy Annan and kiki's grasp of the language, for example - but still I haven't been scolded once. And I know that my English syntax and phrase construction is far from correct; I have improved during the years here, but I'm sure that many native English speakers here shiver quite often when they read my posts.
I try to return their niceness by doing the best I can. Yes, surprise: MATYans are fair and nice when it comes to people who are civil, act like adults and are not arrogant. ;)

It is also possible to be so stubbornly ungrammatical that you get an exemption in the form of Teflon or lifetime Teflon. Examples:  morriganrant, Tigerlilley and Bangelnuts.

Double-posting with an important announcement.

I have PROOF that Pescado's Patented PM Method for Noob-Discouragement works. Look at this:

Give yourself a bit MOAR credit - I didn't realise at first that you were an ESL too, you very rarely slip up and if you do it generally just looks like a typo that anyone could make.

Overcome with PM's? Hell, we all ought to try it. Might shorten the stay of the other lurkers with bad grammar skills.

Although I'll miss the flame-throwing. Have to have some excitement in my life.

This probably also has something to do with overly PC public school teachers nowadays that are afraid to correct kids, fearing the wrath of child-centered parents.

Just for fun:

Grammar and language rules that go above and beyond your everyday policing: http://www.economist.com/research/styleGuide/index.cfm?page=673903

Some of the stuff in there is pretty obvious, but some of it is amusing and fun. A lot of their rules won't necessarily be agreed upon by your modern dictionary. Of course, your 2009 dictionary probably has words like 'webinar,' 'woot,' and 'fanboy' in it.

Examples:

These are not grammar rules, they are explanations about vocabulary and usage, and some of them are contentious at best.

After spell checking your post, prior to hitting the Post button, may I suggest running it through the Stupid Filter (http://stupidfilter.org/demo.php)?

I was a mod on Stupid Filter for a while, but I quit when I realized most of the modding was aimed at a much lower bar of stupid than I was looking for.

Actually it probably has more to do with the fact that your kid's classes probably have 38+ students in each class. When you teach at least 200 students a day you cannot correct everything on each assignment. Next year in our district the classes are going up to 42. We save that kind of grading for the big important writing assignments and give everything else a few "pity points" for effort.

So you are essentially admitting you can't do your job?

Not an educator here, but that was my interpretation.

Yeah. There is much to be said for a teacher's ineptness - I mean... lack of ability... er... fuck it.

Sure I could do my job, if I devoted more time to it than there is hours in the day. So no, I cannot do my job. If you think you can, be my guest.

*by the way, that might not be relevant since I am not actually a teacher!

(http://wikka.moreawesomethanyou.com/images/3/3e/Subjectverbcat.png)

Sucks to be your ass-mar.

I'm surprised that they haven't fired you. I mean, if you can't do your job then you must be a useless tool.

I was going to say, my job is cleaning up after the edumacational messes that teachers make, but then you said you aren't a teacher. So why are you bitching, again?

As long as I live, there will *ALWAYS* be people that have no fucking clue what working in the education system is like that will decide they have an edumacated two cents to contribute on how teachers or lecturers operate. If they'd give us an actual two cents for each of these morons, we'd be damn wealthy and wouldn't have to teach their spawns.

Since you asked so nicely... I am not a teacher. I know teachers, live with teachers, and I volunteer with teachers. The reason I have not been fired, is simply because they are grateful to have a little help, despite the fact that there is too much work for me to finish. My job includes grading mountains of papers for very overworked teachers. I see what they are up against with the enormous class sizes my teachers are saddled with now.  By the way a teacher's job description does not include any specific way they must grade papers. Their job is to teach, and most of them do the best they can with what they have.  In our current economic situation, teachers are not even allowed to make photo copies anymore (in my district) much less given any other type of supplies. Everything comes out of their pocket. They receive very little respect, no understanding, and far too much abuse. What I have seen has caused me to change my career choices completely, because there is no way I want to mess with any of that. The last thing I want is to spend all day trying to teach today's horrible children, just to have them mock you, destroy your materials, and then have their equally nasty parents come and scream at you for their own failures.

Why am I bitching? I wasn't bitching before, but now I am! The reason I replied is because I felt your comment showed the typical amount of ignorance of what it actually means to try to do this job, and I'm confident that I am right. I'd like to see what you look like after just one year of trying to keep 200 teenagers alive, much less teach them something that they don't want to learn.

That's pretty much the reason why I wouldn't be dumb enough to do it in the first place. I've had plenty of dog's jobs too. But instead of bitching about it, I find a different career.

Why do you automatically assume I am speaking from ignorance? Do you know what I do for a living?

Hey you DO look familiar! Did I see you working at Dairy Queen last night?

I would admit to being busted, but there is no DQ in Sydney, so sucks to you, Kiki. If only I had kept that tenure track job at UNSW, eh?

Only popping in here to say that I do not mind the sporking, not that I needed to give permission. How else will I learn? In the years that I have been here, lurking or otherwise, my written presence has improved substantially. This should be an indication of how poorly I was doing before. It was quite frightening. Now writing such as that causes me to cringe, and my eyes glaze over in defense.

Oh but there is now :D It's near Chinatown and going there after 3pm will probably get you knifed, but it's totally worth it. We've got Coldstone now too, so yeyz! DOLLAR DOLLAR TIP, BITCHES.

My sentiment exactly.

Am I the only one that feels that any teacher that needs to outsource their grading is DOING IT WRONG?

*edit: I am not talking out of my ass here. I have several years of being a TA and am working on my credential concurrently with my degree.

When I was high-school teaching I never had a problem with doing my own marking and getting my work done - did it take a large chunk of my social life that I wished it hadn't? Sure...but I still managed to do my OWN work and what was required of me without having to pass it off on others. The salary I was on was the only reason I left teaching for a higher paid job,  I never had a problem with doing the work because I knew what I was in for...too many people think that teaching is what they see on TV, that it ends once you leave the classroom, which is why they get butthurt when they realise the work involved.

Agreed, it sometimes makes it hard to actually understand what a person is saying when they write it incorrect giving it a totally different definition.


Obvious and painfull, yes.


I assume you're doing it on purpose now? At least someone is proud... :roll:


I guess they just didn't teach you comprehensive reading when you were in school?  :o

And it's just a hopeless cause... I'm not going to correct all the errors, because it's time consuming. You just like being recalcitrant?

Actually, when (native) people start to spell things/use grammar incorrectly, it makes it harder for a foreigner to comprehend what it's saying since there really is a difference between (e.g.) "your" and "you're".


Apparently, it's very hard for you to type correct. Hint: typ your posts (interlarded with ignorance) in word before posting, and don't forget to adjust "i" with "I" in autocorrect. Yes, it is that simple :D

Oh crap, and now she got canned. That's what I get for almost always reading the entire thread... :roll:



I don't see the problem? In both primary and high school most of my classes consisted of 30-40 students and they always corrected everything.



If you're not a teacher, WTH are you doing grading papers? And by teaching I think they actually mean teaching correct *language*, so correcting grammar and/or spelling on papers is - IMO - teaching.


Look again.


* Going back to lurk mode*

Really?  Delurking to revive an argument that's been dead for over a week?  After you saw that she'd been canned, that seems like a good time to delete everything pertaining to it since you could clearly see it was no longer relevant. 

By the way, it really helps if you only quote the relevant parts of the post rather than the entire thing.

Actually, no.  Thank you for assuming that my son attends a city public school where, yes, there's hardly any funding and teachers to go around in over-populated classrooms, but he doesn't.  He attends a township school that's small in a classroom where there's only 17 kids.  This is a classroom where the teacher even has two goddamn assistants to help her.

In my day, if you received quite a few Fs on your report card, you were held back, but that's no longer true.  It has more to do with schools trying to push kids ahead even though they're barely grasping what they're learning because of the No Child Left Behind Act.  For something that's supposed to help children succeed and reward corporations that are doing an excellent job of teaching, it's really just causing school boards and superintendents to get their panties in a collective twist over trying to make their kids look like they are exceptional geniuses, and that the teachers aren't just there to collect their paychecks and make tenure (hell, that happened in my day; teachers who didn't care anymore after they made tenure).

So this is the opposite of the royal we, then?
Like... the peasant we?

I have to comment here as I think No Child Left Behind is American and I am in Canada. My son got all Rs(It's the new F ::)) on his first grade one report card. I met with my school's principal and my son's teacher about holding him back to let him have another stab at grade one since he just wasn't absorbing the information. I was told then that the main reason they push kids ahead(in Canada anyway) is due to social reasons rather than academic ones. I thought that was pretty lame but I would have had to fight my regional board of education to get them to hold him back so I let them put him up with his classmates.

In my school system if your child is identified as learning delayed they will set up an individual education plan so although he is in with his same age classmates he's being taught at his level and being given tools to learn how to learn and work with the faulting wiring in his head rather than trying to learn in a way he is failing at. Not the best solution but it works and he seems happy to go to school even though he is not quite as far along in some areas as his classmates.

This system works well for the kids who are average or "delayed", but sucks donkey balls for the bright ones.

It sucks for all involved, truly.  The only program they had for "gifted" kids when I was a wee lass was something called PACE, and I was a part of it for only a short amount of time before I was kicked out due to my non-religious family (something about "being involved in the community" was included in the requirements for being a member).  The same thing happened to me with National Junior Honor Society and National Honor Society (couldn't even begin to join those because I wasn't "involved in the community").  Advanced classes at my high school were also a joke, and since we were a very small school of about 200, if a class in which you wanted to enroll had less than 2 kids in it, that class was canned.

I know all about IEPs.  We have them in America, too.  All three of my kids have one (my oldest has ADHD and a speech impediment, my middle child has a chromosome disorder which makes him moderately retarded, and my youngest also has ADHD and a speech impediment), and something I've noticed in this school corporation is that they don't even bother to follow the ones they write up and have you sign.  Example:  my oldest son's IEP states that because of his disorders, he must have an assistant help him with his regular classwork (and no one helps him at this school, but he received help at previous schools with the same IEP), and as requested by his doctor, he needs to complete his homework at school because his medication wears off around 4pm, and he starts to get too irritable and tired to concentrate (another thing they don't do).  I help him with what I can (I can't help him with this newfangled math; it was never my favorite subject in any case), but I can't control what those dimwits do with him at school.  Hell, he has asthma that's aggravated by the outdoors, so he's not supposed to go outside for recess, but they ignore the doctor's orders and still send him out anyway.

Eh, I know they push kids along because of social reasons (just like they don't tend to skip smarter kids ahead several grades anymore because they aren't "emotionally" ready), but the desire to look successful and receive funding also pushes kids along who shouldn't be (as was told to me by a friend of mine in the Minneapolis urban school corporation).

I am confused as to why not being religious kept you from being involved in the community? While it is true that many societies are religious in nature, they do not require you to be religious to help.

Sounds like some crazy Bible School "Special Program." Or Zaphod lived in some crazy Mormon commune.

Only GT class I've ever heard of endorsing community involvement was AP classes, and that was because they want you to get tons of scholarships. It wasn't enforced either, but they would help you if you were trying for something Camp Fire or Scouts related. Sister got her Wohelo thanks to her AP coach.

It's true that a lot of schools force it on the brighter kids because they know that community participation is becoming a big issue with upper tier universities. As it should be. It's possible that if we had more high school students working in situations that force them to consider a larger world than their high school microcosm, they might not be entering universities as such entitled brats.

Actually, I grew up in a small farming community in southeastern Indiana where if you weren't Christian, you were some sort of freak, and since my father was a "loud and proud atheist," our family was not liked by many.  Also, "being involved with the community" is all fine and dandy when it means actually doing community work, but what our school board meant by "being involved" was "going to church".  Yes, I was discriminated against, and I suppose my family could have fought to get me included, but I had no backbone in those days (hence, I didn't want to be even more ostracized by my peers), so I chose to remain silent on the matter.  Probably wouldn't have won against the school anyway considering that I went to school in the '80s, and atheism was still relatively a new concept in small town America.

Eh, even if the requirements were actually about community service instead of religious intolerance, I still wouldn't have been able to participate.  I lived 5 miles outside of town with no way to get to town (as in "not allowed") to even do any sort of community service.  In the end, someone always loses out no matter what.

In closing, Indiana (most parts of it) = armpit of Hell.  

It's more probable that if parents would take their entitled brats in hand before they became so, they wouldn't arrive at university as such. The idea that one is going to change the entitled mindset is ludicrous. The entitled brat who attends university will in nearly every case remain an entitled brat, "community participation" or no. In fact, it has been my experience that many of the most active community participants in the the many places I've lived are the most self-important, self-absorbed, entitled fucksticks I've ever had the displeasure to meet.

A requirement by an university to "participate in the community" is nothing more than forced indoctrination. A large part of the problem with the distinct downturn in the quality of American education is that more time is spent with socialization than academic and vocational knowledge, from grade school through university. It is the right of the individual to choose their level of community involvement, even if that means as little participation as possible. Then, this comes from a pirate and misanthrope of the "take what you can, give nothing back" variety.

It is the responsibility of the parent to teach their children to play well with others, and the academic institution to impart knowledge.

teebs, I would have to say that was nothing short of an outstanding first post. It seems the educational system is  working somewhere.
Welcome to MATY.

Thank you very much, lemmiwinks. My blue collar, high school drop out parents' efforts paid off. Five children; five college graduates. My public school experience had little to do with it.

I appreciate the welcome. I read through this thread with more than a little amusement. I am a convicted Grammar Nazi, and this site always provides good, satisfying entertainment. I've been lurking here for years, not finding a need to post. I either find answers to my queries through a little searching, or (my preference) I find my own solution.

The baiting and ridicule tossed about among the cohort of more articulate members reminds me of my family's rather voluble barbecues. I love it.

I do believe this has been the most entertaining thread I have ever read. Now, before I go LURK MOAR, I'd like to point a vaguely trembling finger in the direction of the registration page (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?action=register).

The last time I checked, Assyria no longer existed as a nation, and therefore has no business having a capital city. Either the wrong answer is correct, or the grammar is wrong.

The point, you have missed it.

Indeed. Grammar is not enough, you must also understand literary and pop culture references.

Jesus God yes, thank you.  My institution currently has a big thing about "Service Learning."  A year or two ago, I noticed that the Dean had suggested that I might like to look into using Service Learning, and this was duly passed up the chain to the framming Provost, so that it went in my Retention/Tenure/Promotion letter for that year.  It turns out that every single professor who still had to go through the tenure and promotion process that year was advised to use Service Learning.  Every single one.  Luckily, I don't ever have to go through that process again, so I can just ignore any more of their brilliant ideas.

I don't have any problem with it if it's relevant, but I think it's very tone-deaf to the actual needs of our students.  I'm teaching Shakespeare:  what kind of Service Learning are my students supposed to do with that?  Teach younger kids Shakespeare?  They don't know it themselves.  Most of our students are working; many are studying to be teachers, which often means a lot of teaching practice and internships (REAL Service Learning); and a lot of them have families of their own.  They're already having difficulties carving out the time to take classes and study.  What if every class they took had a serious Service Learning component?  It seems cruel, unnecessary--and stupid.  The real reason administrators like it is that it makes the University look good ("see?  We are Serving the Needs Of The Community!") 

I just want my students to sit down, shut up, and read.  I'll be happy to grade their papers, answer questions, even listen to their opinions about the reading.  I'm a competent professor, and a completely untrained and uninterested social worker.  Why not let me get on with my job?  Sheesh.

Well, prof buttsecks, Shakespeare is, like, really, really old. Maybe they could knit him an afghan and send him a card saying "thanks for the plays" to his nursing home.

(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1041/worstcapcha.jpg)

Holy Grail, perchance? No matter. On a related note, here's an excessively detailed article on Estimating the Airspeed Velocity of an Unladen Swallow (http://www.style.org/unladenswallow/).

My sister is a teacher. More than once I have been at her house on a weekend and seen her grading papers late in the evening.  One time I offered to help her grade papers and she replied "(i)f I don't grade their papers, I won't know what they need help with."  Therefore I can say with certainty, "no, you aren't the only one who feels that they are doing it wrong". :)

"Service Learning." How droll. I suppose using "Community Service" makes it sound rather less appealing.

My main concern with the whole concept is the incessant brainwashing used by teachers or the university to further their own social/political agendas. I've seen first hand the power that professors wield over children away from home for the first time. Their mindset is similar to that of someone being indoctrinated into a cult. I watched a teacher actively use cult tactics such as love-bombing to further the agenda of a sociopolitical organization of which she is a member.

As a firm believer in the principle that the individual is greater than the group, this type of activity terrifies me. Then, groups terrify me anyway. The current trend in socialist conformity literally makes me shiver. Conformity breeds stagnation and rewards mediocrity. There is already more than enough mediocrity in this world, where the stupid breed without surcease, and the intellectually superior worry about overpopulation and don't breed at all.

Universities are filled to the brim with students who have no business being there and are putting themselves into massive debt to attain a degree that becomes more worthless with each passing year. Higher education is NOT for everyone. Why is it that "leveling the playing field" invariably means making it easier for the stupid ones?

I could get into the role of government in this trend and the current dumbing down of the populace as a form of crowd control, but then I'd begin to sound like a paranoid freak.

I couldn't resist adding this; "Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

Idiocracy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/). A disturbingly prophetic movie disguised as a lame comedy.


I don't know about the states, but that phrase is being bandied about more and more in the UK, and gaining a foothold in Asia. "Our system of education is borked, so we're going to make the tests easier to make it seem the kids are brighter."

I sympathize. I teach ESL in Indonesia, and it is an unfortunate fact that many, if not most, of the teachers here aren't overly concerned with learning what the students' needs are, beyond what they glean in-class -- especially in a Korean school, where the grades can be completely arbitrary, and are quite frequently fixed to reach class average goals set by the Korean Department of Education.

However, not all the blame can be shouldered by the teachers - timing is an issue. I currently work in a Korean school's native speaker department, whose focus is iBT TOEFL. We are currently at the beginning of the end-of-semester testing period. Usually, we have one week to test speaking and writing with an extra 3 days to finish grading. THIS year, the Koreans decided to add another, unrelated, integrated (1 unqualified Korean teacher, 1 native speaker) iBT class which resulted in an additional week of testing. So that's 2x speaking and 2x writing to grade, in 3 days, for roughly 150 students per grade, per teacher.

The temptation is understandable.

Idiocracy is brilliant...and tragic in its dead-on glimpse into our future. Mike Judge excels at social commentary channeled through sophomoric humor.


In the states "leveling the playing field" is the politically correct terminology for catering to the lowest common denominator, and is being used all too frequently.

Children.  Interesting choice of words there.  I'd go so far as to say that this is part of the problem.  CHILDREN have no place at a university.  The university is a place for young adults who are given the opportunity to sample ideas, weigh them, choose what makes sense to them, make choices, and experience the consequences of said choices.  "Brainwashed" young adults, in my experience, are simply those who go home at Thanksgiving and get an enormous charge out of freaking out their parents with social and political ideas that they know won't be welcome (and tattoos. Let's not forget the tattoos.)  It's easy to blame professors for this, but stupid, as I don't know any two professors who agree on anything.  The problem, if there is one, comes from the administration and the political pressure exerted on the administration. 

Rohina, a lot of my students aren't even clear that Shakespeare wrote plays.  They insist on calling his work "books," or worse, "novels."  And I don't think many of them can do something as practical as knitting.

10-15 years ago in Wisconsin there was some talk about lowering the eligibility grade for high school sports to a D because apparently there were a lot of athletes having trouble remaining eligible to play.  So um, your son is getting bad grades and your response is "OMG WHAT IF HE CAN'T PLAY FOOTBALL?!" 

On a related note, a town near where I attended high school built a third high school around the same time.  It was a huge school with all the best of everything.  They changed the zoning so that there were some kids from both existing high schools who would now be going to Appleton North as the new school was called.  The parents of some of the kids from Appleton East (which has long had a very successful football program) were upset that their children would have to go to North and would thus no longer have a winning football team to cheer/play for.

My favorite though is the bumper stickers you see around.  "We honor ALL students at <insert school name here>". 

It really IS just as bad for gifted children though; I started school at 4 years old as a 6, and was already reading at a significantly advanced level compared to my peers. I was breezing through books in Kindergarten that 2nd and 3rd graders were struggling with - my mothership told the school this, but due to my age and the belief in wanting to keep the status quo my school fought my family for a good 6 months attempting to hold me back a grade.

I'm still thankful to my parents that they fought so hard to keep my place and refused to let my school hold me back for my age - I ended up graduating approximately 18 months younger than everyone else in my class, but was equal dux of my grade senior year despite it. I spent most of my school years attempting to not appear to be that much smarter than everyone else and blending in, because in the modern schooling system you do NOT want to draw attention to yourself if you're too far advanced of the system you're in.

Yeah, I tried the "blending in" thing, but I was the victim of a tribe of sadistic educators who decided that 3 or 4 of us would be singled out as the poster boys for their "advanced student" policy.  This was ostensibly so that we could be seen as "tutorial resources" by the less apt students (trans: torture victims for the crowd that rubbed "tattoos" into their arms with pencil erasers and would not believe that I knew what an infection looked like).

I told the kid that his arm would get gangrene and fall off, mainly to relieve the boredom.

You'd be done for child abuse for doing that in the UK now, and probably end up as a permanent entry in a List somewhere. Those were the good ol' days.

Yeah, asking students to question the assumptions they have grown up with is exactly tantamount to "indoctrination". Screw you, you anti-intellectual blue-collar elitist.

I thought he was an old TV writer way back in the 70's.  He wrote those Three's Company plotlines - the ones that centered around mistaken identity, where hilarity ensued.

Oh, the forcing of the smart kid to "tutor" its bully. I refused to go to school for an entire week after my teacher tried that one on me in Grade 6. MiniB awesomely resists this by being really unhelpful. She got a bad mark in leadership because she stuck her fingers in her ears during reading time and refused to help the less able readers.

Awesome. I love MiniB.

Yes, I truly believe that reading is witchcraft and teachers should all be slowly spit-roasted over a fire produced by burning a nice blend of hickory and maple woods. I also believe everyone should be required to drive pickups and where bib overalls and the only things that need be taught in school are the Holy Bible and yer basic cypherin'.

Then again, it's possible that I believe that not every professor is best suited to ask their students to question their assumptions. Ultimately, since half the population (according to the bell curve anyway, I think it's more like ninety to ninety-nine percent) is stupid to varying degrees, it is fairly certain that at least one or two college professors are morons who shouldn't be teaching finger painting, much less attempting to affect the social consciousness of young people. So, eat me.

To the professor: Many of the people entering university are not young adults. Children are allowed to be less and less responsible, resulting in retarded maturation. I don't hold professors responsible for normal, healthy behavior or children questioning their childhood beliefs or good old rebellion against the system. I try to refrain from hypocrisy. Being tattooed myself, I find some humor in the parental discomfort caused by such an innocuous act of rebellion.

I am all for questioning, well, everything. Questioning and challenging the status quo is the responsibility of any intelligent person. First however, the person must learn such things as independent and active thinking. Since the current trend, at least in the states, is to teach children not to bother thinking, I believe they may not be prepared for a few of the more politically oriented, less intellectually savvy professors who actually believe that because they managed to grind out a dissertation at some lousy jerkwater state school, they are better able to determine what is best for everyone.

This isn't to say I believe that of all professors. In fact, I don't believe it to be the case with the majority, based on my own experience. I was nearly thirty before I entered university, and I believe I value the experience far more because of my age. I built lasting relationships based on mutual respect with a number of my professors. I place a high value on any strong mind, and I have great respect for the true teacher; not the ones who teach because they cannot do, but the ones who teach because they recognize that knowledge is the only thing of real, lasting value.

Blue-collar elitist.... still chuckling about that...

So, the problem of immature speshul snowflakes who are unprepared for college is to be shouldered entirely by the professors? Despite what you want to argue about their relative maturity, the fact is that college students, in the VAST majority, are legally considered to be adults. Professors are bound by legislation like FOIP or FOIA (depending on the country), which means they have to treat students as adults and their relationship with students is not like that of a school teacher and a pupil.

Professors are there to teach, not to hand-hold and offer pastoral care. Even if I care deeply about a student (okay, stop laughing all you guys who know how mean I am), it's not appropriate for me to leap in and hand hold. My job is to present the material, to challenge students to think about it and to get them to meet specific learning and technical standards.

Your idea that stupid jerks who just barely manage to grind out a PhD (omg I can hardly type that without laughing) can get jobs in the current climate is absolutely hilarious.

Let me guess, all those professors with whom you built strong relationships gave you the grades you thought you deserved, but the ones who are stupid, and can only teach because they can't do, those ones were particularly thick-headed with regard to recognizing your brilliance.

What are they?

They are older men and women who for some reason need to improve their education.

I was 38 and had recently suffered a physical disability when I applied to university.  Prior to being disabled I enjoyed highly physical jobs; however that changed when a series of heart attacks put me on permanent light duty.  Unable to work the types of jobs I was trained for, and unwilling to live on the pittance paid by disability, I had to find a new way to work for a living.  I am now 40 and am currently working towards my degree in Game and Simulation Programming; hopefully I will learn from the mistakes of companies like EA and not be stupid when I start writing code for games.   

This is a ridiculous question and hardly worthy of a response. I think it should be obvious from my previous posts that I believe the rearing of children is the responsibility of the parent(s). The root of the entire problem is that parents are more concerned with their own wants and needs, and how supposedly " happy" their children are than to recognize that their main role is not to make sure their children are happy, but to ensure that they mature into quality human beings, i.e. free-thinking individuals with a bit of consideration for and politeness toward others thrown in.

The role of the professor is to educate within their field of expertise. Period.


Thank you for pointing out the completely obvious. Wow... just wow.


Did you actually read anything I previously wrote?


First, if you actually believe that there aren't fucktards out there that manage to attain a PhD, you're as pig-ignorant as they are. Second, do you honestly think that every school produces the same quality doctorate, or that all of them care about said quality? Silly.


O' Great Karnak, try again. Everyone recognizes my brilliance. The lowest grade I ever received on anything was ninety-two percent. In fact, that seems to be my magic, non-effort-making test score. My IQ is a documented 162, I was awarded a lifetime membership to the local MENSA chapter, I make an uber-delicious Jameson-based barbecue sauce, and write a mean haiku.

You cannot bait me
I rule, you drool, sugarlips...
but you keep trying



The Children of the Damned.

You are still a sheep and a noob. Therefore, you lose.

Oooooh, your dazzling retort stings. It's like a paper cut, even...

teebs, if your IQ is 162 that puts you in the upper third of MATYzens. Just. And that's only because we have all the barely literate turds in the bottom third to even us out. Mensa membership doesn't even get you considered for a post in the Grammar Police, so good try waving your academic dick, but it is just a little tiddler.

I did read what you wrote, and for me it sounded just like every other undergrad who was doing okay and so assumed he or she knew everything there was to know about academia and being a prof.

I am quite sure there are a few crackpots, cheaters, users and sluts (who sleep with their profs) getting PhDs, but the proportion of actual morons doing so is going to be fairly small. Why? Because actual morons would have trouble writing a dissertation that gets passed by outside examiners. You conveniently glossed over my main point, though, which was that a moron with a PhD, even assuming such an animal exists, is highly unlikely to get a job in the current climate. Because actual bright competent people can't even manage that, a lot of the time. You only have to read the Chronicle of Higher Education or RYS for a couple days to figure that out.

You say "the role of the professor is to educate within their [sic] field of expertise. Period." Which statement you make apparently in an effort to go "case closed, so there," but in order TO educate within my field of expertise, I have to teach a bunch of skills like critical thinking, and analysis. If I don't teach students what to do with the material, how can I teach the material? If I don't give my students an understanding of feminism, how can they read Virginia Woolf? If I don't help them come to grips with modernism and colonialism, how can they read Heart of Darkness?

It's the same in nearly every discipline. There are theories and ideas underlying areas of study that may not be apparent to the average undergrad, and it is the professor's job to at least introduce students to these ideas. Good profs will challenge students' assumptions and make them think rather than spoonfeeding the material needed for the exam.

That is a very limiting view of the role of the professor.

I live in a city where there are 3 universities.  The city itself is quite small, so the universities compete quite aggressively each year to attract the interest of students and their parents.  All three of the universities run very similar advertising campaigns - they all advertise that they teach critical thinking and that their graduates are expert problem solvers with employable, transferable skills.

Professors aren't just teaching the subject matter (which is their field of expertise), they're also teaching how to analyse the material, as employers are far more interested in whether a graduate has analytical skills than on whether the graduate is an expert in a very narrow field, such as a thesis on outliers in data mining.

Out of the approximate 6500 members who post, there are over 2150 MATYans who fall into the top 99.99% intellectually? That is quite an achievement. Of course when I said "documented IQ" I didn't mean they received an email from free-iqtest.net.

I am well aware that I am not the most brilliant of the brilliant. I lost a chess match to a nine year old; rather than anger I experienced only awe and joy at witnessing a game played so masterfully. I have no ego to bruise. Try again.


I didn't gloss over anything. You may be right on that point, and as I already stated;
It doesn't change the fact that there are already morons with PhD's teaching in universities.


Since critical thinking and analysis, as well as a working knowledge of modernism and colonialism were very likely required for you to attain your degree, wouldn't you say that falls under the purview of your field of expertise? Does this mean you are competent to teach colonial history or critical analysis of modernist art? Further, does it make you an expert on sociopolitical topics? Perhaps you are competent to teach these subjects, but if that is the case, I would argue that it is due to your intellect rather than your degree.


Again I would argue that the underlying theory and idea falls under the scope of the discipline. I agree that good professors should challenge their student's assumptions and make them think, but making them analyze the subject from all sides, whether it parallels one's own beliefs or not, is just as important. It is not the responsibility of the professor to develop a curriculum that insinuates his or her own belief system into the minds of a captive audience.

By the way, I really have no interest in joining the "Grammar Police." It takes up far too much of your time. 9266 posts in not quite four years. You've averaged nearly 7 posts EVERY DAY in that time. Thanks, but I have this thing called a "life" and I prefer to spend my days doing real life "stuff". In a month or so, I'm going to a place called "outside" and because it's a really big place, I'm going to drive my motorcycle all over it for about three months, or maybe six. I haven't decided just how long yet.

While I'm sure that logging on here and posting every single day for four years is not a signifier of a boring and tedious life, I am quite sure my need to do "stuff" and go "outside" in "real life" would seriously impede my performance as an "Officer of Grammatical Rules and Enforcement". So, as devastating as it is to discover that I am too stupid to qualify for such a sought after and vaunted position, I suppose I can and will carry on. It may require sandy beaches, a couple of bikini-clad tarts and a buttload (no, literally a buttload) of tequila, but I'm firm in my position that I will survive...


Point taken Kyna and hopefully addressed above.

I don't get this part, in chess strength is very well defined, and kids can get more easily to a decent level than adults, so, even if you were the most brilliant of the brilliant, an averagely trained 9 6 years old  is going to beat you at your first game, and probably continuously until you get more experience.

Chess ability is not necessarily tied to brilliancy either, see Alan Turing, a genius that developed the first computer algorithm, and hypothetical computation engines (now known as Turing Machines)* and first chess playing algorithm, yet he was really awful at chess.

*Part in italic copy-pasted.

It's been my experience that when a person new to MATY posts something like this, they almost inevitably turn out to be a tard, probably because anyone who has the time to brag on an online forum about how they have a life does not really have a life. 

One person's balance and showing all sides of an issue is another person's "indoctrination."  This is why there is such strict protection for academic freedom on campus.  I am especially careful not to use my position as a bully pulpit.  I teach in a state school and generally I'm careful not even to reveal my religious or political affiliations.  But even teaching Renaissance literature, I'm bound to step on some toes.  Some people do not want to be exposed to readings in which any homoerotic desire is even possible:  in their view, Antonio suffers all the stuff he does for Bassanio because they are just Real Good Pals. You wouldn't think you could get into trouble by explaining about double predestination, but I've had students (in the nicest possible way) say to me that they were SURE Christians couldn't have believed anything like that in the sixteenth century because THEY were Christians and THEY didn't believe that.  (I pointed them, also in the nicest possible way, towards John Calvin.)

I am sure an angry student could transform that into my pushing a radical anti-Christian homosexual agenda on my students.  There are morons in all walks of life. And some of them run FrontPage.

I'm rather good at chess. He was far superior. We were not playing in an organized event and had no prior knowledge of one another as players. He is the son of a friend. We have played a number of times and I can count on one hand the times I've won. This is not really the salient point.

Many adults (particularly those with much higher than average IQs) find it difficult to have their intellect put into question by anyone, much less a child. While I admit a certain level of arrogance and therefore felt somewhat humbled, it was a most enjoyable surprise. One can question my intelligence all one wants. I am completely comfortable with who I am.

I disagree with your second statement. While there are types of brilliance not suited to chess, brilliance of some sort is required. Alan Turing was a genius, but in what context? Chess is far more than computation. Among other things chess requires strong spacial ability, planning and efficiency and an ability to quickly and accurately gauge one's opponent. Further, it takes years of commitment to achieve any sort of expertise at chess. It may take a combination of qualities to become a great player, but intellectual brilliance most certainly plays a part.

I'll readily admit that I know little beyond the basics about Alan Turing. Was he a dedicated chess player? Was he a spacial thinker?

Thank you, Basura, as well as everyone else for the stimulating discourse.

teebs, you are hilarious. You have posted more than 7 times today. Does this mean you, too, have no life?

Dammit, rohina, stop trying to indoctrinate the noob to your no-life-having ways.

My ten posts definitely suggest that I spend all of my time online.


Wait, wait, wait... they weren't just really good pals?

I applaud your efforts. From this and prior posts you seem to be an educated and articulate human being and very likely an excellent teacher. Can you deny that some professors do use their positions as bully pulpits? As to the first sentence of the above quote, to some extent that is true, but there is a limit. I've experienced first hand a tenured professor using her position to further her own sociopolitical agenda. I found it incredibly disturbing to watch her attempt to manipulate her students while the younger ones never batted an eye. Again, I realize professors like her are the exception and not the rule, and though I may not have articulated this fact, I have a tremendous amount of respect for anyone who dedicates themselves to teaching.

What does Malaysian television programming have to do with the anything?

Absolutely. At this very moment I'm in my tighty-whiteys, eating butter pecan frosting straight from the container and listening to Michael Bolton singing "A Dream is a Wish Your Heart Makes". I epic fail.

I may wish to join this "blue-collar elitist" cult. Where might I find more information about it?

Get in your car, drive away from civilization, and look for a bar with peeling paint and a neon Budweiser logo in the front window.  There will be rusty pickup trucks outside, and at least one of them will have a dog tied up with baling twine in the bed.  There will be guns in the rear window, and probably at least one Confederate flag visible.  When you walk in the bar, it will smell like stale smoke, and there will be a spittoon somewhere.  The jukebox only plays country music.  Everything will be sticky.  The bartender is surly, and your beverage choices will be Budweiser, Miller, PBR, Busch, Jim Beam, and Jack Daniel's.  When you have found a place that meets these requirements, you will have found the blue-collar elitist cult.

I knew this was a case of individual butthurt. I bet she was an evil feminist, too, right?

@prof buttsecks: I once had a student write a paper about how, since people thought Shakespeare's sonnets were written to a male, it must have been his son, and so it was platonic, filial love.

Or you could save youself the trip, and pick up an AutoTrader (there's a meeting posted in the classifieds).


Is there any other kind?

BTW, you've reached your 7-post limit for the day, Rohina.  Know when to say when, and all that.

I'm a nuuuuuuuube.

How do you kill that which has no life?

lemmiwinks, we're currently holding tent revivals at all major truck stops along I80, Piggly Wiggly food stores, and John Deere dealerships. You can also join up in our special prayer meeting this SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY at Hagerstown Speedway, in Hagerstown MD. Don't forget to catch GRAVE DIGGER and the gargantuan destroyer from prehistory: ROBOSAURUS!!!

I'll pm you with the pertinent information.

rohina, keep on trying. I have no problems at all with feminism. In fact I like all kinds of people: feminists, homosexuals, lesbians, rednecks, crackers, politicians, truck drivers, people of all races and political and social backgrounds. Then, I even manage to find tolerance for insufferable prigs.

Oh God, don't even get me started on this kind of thing. I had someone in my tutorials first year of university that just freaked out completely and could NOT comprehend the idea of Mercrutio having a homoerotic man-crush on Romeo and actually stood up in the tute and shouted "NO! THEY WERE HOMIES! HE WAS INTO CHICKS!".

Please.  Mercutio/Tybalt is totally the OTP there.

Kiki, that forced a full on laugh from the gut... priceless.

Do I know you? Do I LIKE you? No? I'm one of the horrid evil Buttists that agree with Rohina. I think you're a self-important douche-nozzle with a chip on your shoulder the size of lake michigan when it comes to female university professors. Go back to your ice-cream and eat your feelings again, tubby. I also found it amusing to see an "I have no ego" comment from someone that lists their email as "bigego69".

Do I CARE? No. Can you offend me. Not likely. I am a self-important douche-nozzle. The chip is only the size of Lake Huron, get your facts straight. It was frosting, not ice cream. Oooooh, you called me "tubby." Ouch. I'm glad you find it amusing, that was the idea.

I was going to be all "no wai!" but they really are a classic Top and Bottom when you think about it.

Well, they are in my Veronaville, anyway.  My school just did a production of it and there were interviews with the actors, in which they revealed their characters' deepest, darkest secret.  The actor playing Tybalt said his character was gay.  The actor playing Mercutio said his character was slowly dying of syphilis and that it had gone to his brain.  But in the play, I think the text does support Mercutio having a one-way mancrush on Romeo.  

Rohina:  which is the top and which is the bottom?  I always figured Tybalt as the top.

Mmm, I dunno.  Tybalt's the King of Cats, and cats aren't known for their high activity level, and Bottom strikes me as requiring less physical exertion.

Tybalt is def the top. Mercutio has that masochistic streak a mile wide.

Do you have an official rating? No? Well, try to make a guess of what your chess rating is and subtract 400, that'll be close to your real rating unless you're bad at guessing. Usually a rating of 1000 is enough to beat all the people in your street, and all casual players of the park, making you believe that you're really good, yet a 1200 player is going to look far superior to you, but in reality both players are really weak.


The key is the number of times, have you played 100 games? Then you might have a point. Have you played 20 games? Then those results would indicate that he's not more than 400 points stronger than you, and so if he played on official tournaments he would probably not perform as good as you expect.

At rating below 1800 tactics are almost everything, and games are decided by blunders, so that if you make them, a player that spots your blunders and punishes them is going to be successful most of the time, even if he commits the same number or more blunders but you're incapable of noticing and punishing them. The point is that that's more about practice and experience than about brilliancy.


Ok, now go at the local chess club to play [non-casual] kids at chess and note how superior they are to you, you'll enjoy it.


Chess is all about computation, the best chess programs in the world (e.g. Rybka) are just fast number crunchers that know what to compute, and are playing consistently at a level 200 rating points higher than the strongest human on his best day.

The analytic and positional aspects of the game only help to reach positions where it's easier to compute or it makes it more difficult to the opponent, or in where you reach complex positions you are familiar with. Chess is just like an incredibly more complex version of tic tac toe, in principle (a finite turn based 2 player game with open information) now tell me what else does tic tac toe need than computation.

"Strong spacial ability" helps in computation, you can't "plan" if you don't know what are going to be the opponent's moves, all you can do is guess by evaluation of best potential future moves and if you get them right (i.e. you're not missing the better move that the opponent plays) you get efficiency, that requires computation.

"Accurately gauging one's opponent" is a non-factor, on the board players have the same strenght than online players even though the latter don't get to see their opponent, would you gauge based on the fact that your online opponent is named bubsy336? And rating based strategy doesn't work, the best move on the board is the same regardless of opponent modeling, if you're willing to set up a trap in where, if the opponent doesn't fall on it you end on a worse position you're just playing poker. Sure, there are good chess players that might do this, but they're relying on luck, I've beaten "far superior" (rating based) opponents by just not falling on their traps and showing them "gauging" me isn't the way in chess.


And again, there are many counter examples to this, do your research, besides the geniuses that failed really badly at chess (after really trying) there are examples of average intelligent people that were really good at chess (presumably by natural talent, but that talent was mainly for chess.)

Of course you need a certain level of intelligence for chess (if someone doesn't understand the rules he's never going to be world champion) but I wouldn't call that "brilliancy", it's mostly about patience, determination and having fun with the game, if it bores you it doesn't matter if you beat Einstein at physics, you're probably not going to play chess enough to beat that kid on your street.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turning

That site has a couple of other interesting articles as well.

Oh dear, oh dear. Thank God I've not had to put up with nonsense like that, I'd most likely have punched the idiot. I did have a heated argument at A-Level with someone in my Lit class who insisted that homosexual readings of Shakespeare ruined the perfectly innocent notion of the "bro-mance" (he didn't call it that exactly, as I'm not sure the term had been coined then). That's about as close to such a debate as I've got. I guess I must be lucky to go to uni at a reasonably progressive place. Mind you, with resident experts in Queer theory, and modules like Early Modern Sexualities, anyone expecting nice heteronormative readings should really go elsewhere.

There are some lecturers who obviously have a bee in their bonnet about certain issues. I've yet to meet a female English professor who isn't strongly interested in feminism for instance. Perhaps that's because most of my lecturers were undergrads during the 70's and early 80's when feminism was all the rage. Or perhaps it's just because femenist readings of literature are particularly interesting. But if you're at a decent uni, then you should be intelligent enough to sift through the personal agendas of any professors and work out your own opinions. My A Level Economics teachers used to espouse their free-market capitalist ideologies virtually every lesson. Despite their concerted efforts they failed to indoctrinate me, and we were still wide-eyed 12s back then.

Even so, let's not lose sight of the fact that he claims to be able to make a decent barbecue sauce.  People are losing sight of the relevant facts of the case.

I love this. Mostly because I am immediately picturing John Leguizamo and Harold Perrineau (preferably in their ball costumes) getting all "let me take my sin back."

I may not be a genius or whatever this big mouthed sheep thinks it is but I do know enough that you don't jump into a new forum and make such a total ass out of yourself by being such a braggart.

Who did you have there? I'm curious because my degree is partially in gender theory and I had an awesome queer theorist as a professor for some of the courses. I'm wondering if it was someone I would recognize. :)

Oh my God. That is truly my vision of hell on earth.

I must be oblivious, because I was thinking Mercutio/Benvolio/Romeo when I read the play.

Not so sure about Benvolio.  For one thing, when Romeo says "I love. . . a woman!" Benvolio says something like, "Well, DUH!"  For another, his solution to being dissed by one hot babe is another hot babe.  I can't decide if Benvolio is truly a clueless straight boy, or a straight boy who gets it, and I don't know if he understands the Romeo/Mercutio relationship, whatever that is. The only thing that's definite about Benvolio is his desire that everyone Get Along.

There are a lot of characters, like Bassanio in Merchant and Sebastian in Twelfth Night, who definitely seem to be the object of male desire.  (Side note:  if you are named Antonio and you are in a Shakespeare play, do not bother registering your flatware pattern at Macy's.  It ain't gonna happen.)  I can't always tell if they are bisexual and can or have returned that affection to some extent; if they are straight and clueless; if they are straight and generally clueful but have not dropped to the fact that their friends are in love with them; or if they are straight, clueful, and simply do not want to know that their friends are in love with them, as it would make things awkward.  Sebastian in Twelfth Night, in particular, acts confused--"So. . .why are you giving me your whole wallet?"  "You're in danger of arrest here?  Why the hell didn't you tell me?"  "Gee, I wish I could find good old Tony.  He might have some good advice for me about this girl I just met."  But I think the text could support any of those readings.  What it's nearly impossible to do is ignore the passion on either Antonio's side: "But come what may, I do adore thee so,/That danger shall seem sport, and I will go."

Benvolio is a conformer, so no way is he gay. He is all about people abiding by the rules, which manifests in wanting them to get along, but his motivation is his desire not to rock the boat.

Shakespeare's gayness to me always seems like youthful experimentation; like those guys who are confused are willing to be convinced to try it.

Interesting choice of words. The whole superior/inferior thing sounds a bit familliar, don't you think? So, how many intellectually inferior people do you propose to sterilize in order to make this world a smart enough place for you to enjoy it?
Really, Onkel Mengele would be so proud.


Define stupid and hold your breath. Exhale. Go slap yourself in front of a mirror. Repeat.

To say nothing of the idea that intelligent children can only be born from intelligent parents with college degrees, and that intelligent parents are only capable of raising intelligent offspring.  That would come as a great surprise to the blue-collar parents I know with smart kids, and smart parents whose kids have learning disabilities...


Is anyone else thinking Prospero/Caliban?

NO! But Stephano and Trinculo with Caliban in a drunken 3-way? Maybe.

Mmmm, yes, that's much better.

Prospero/Ariel, then?

I don't think Ariel has parts.

Prospero was stuck on that island for YEARS.  He HAD to be shagging something.

All the speculation I've read has been more along the lines of Prospero/Sycorax, which would make Prospero Caliban's stepfather, or perhaps even his father.  This makes Caliban's later attempt to rape his "sister" Miranda extra-squicky, but it's plenty squicky without it.  Miranda and Caliban have grown up side by side as though they were brother and sister, and rape of teenaged girls is just . . . no.

I've seen productions where the director tried to create some kind of hot n' heavy stuff with Ariel and Prospero, but I think that's ignoring something basic about Ariel.  For me, one of the best lines in the play is when Ariel says that Prospero would feel pity if he could see his former enemies:

Ariel:  . . . if you now beheld them, your affections
Would become tender.

Prospero:                   Dost thou think so, spirit?

Ariel: Mine would, sir, were I human.

That line isn't effective if Ariel is human in any way.  

Wasn't Sycorax dead at the beginning of the play?  Prospero had to be there for at least a little while with nothing to bone.

Tad Williams did a nice retelling of The Tempest from Caliban's point of view.  The book's called Caliban's Hour and it's pretty hard to find, but it's a quick read.

Yes, thank you.  Both my husband and I could be considered super geniuses (I've been told my number; whoop-dee-fucking-doo), but every one of our children has a learning disability (one more severely than the other two, as well).  Also, my oldest brother and I are the "book smart" children, while I have another older brother who is a goddamn idiot.  We're all the product of an inbred moronic mother (gah, embarrassing, yet true) and a father whose IQ was tested as 115 back in the '50s but is surely higher than that.

Edumacated parents =/= edumacated children.  Thank you, faulty genetics.

I wouldn't say that a learning disability is the opposite of intelligence. What about savants?

Well, except intelligence is no use except to LEARN NEW THINGS. If you are smart but can't learn, you are pretty much a fish with a bicycle.

A lot of the time, savantism comes at the expense of normal functioning elsewhere in the brain.  Autistic savants might be able to draw something perfectly from memory or calculate days of the week from the introduction of the current calendar system, but they have deficits in emotional understanding and communication.  People who are otherwise normal-functioning, but have a gift in one area, like Beethoven or Mozart, aren't equally gifted everywhere.  Often, music and mathematical ability are intertwined, but those people will probably NOT have the same skill with other things.

Not bad.  My son, for example, is great with spatial stuff, has skills of an artist like anything, but lacks focus in school and social skills.

The fish is good at what fishes are good at, but has trouble with bicycles, yes.

People with learning disabilities are not intelligent. Savantism is not equivalent to intelligence at all. Intelligence is the ability to learn and adapt to arbitrary conditions. Being a savant just makes you a fleshy robotic machine, no different than a computer. A computer can perform complex mathematics faster than any meatbag. A computer can regurgitate enormous amounts of information with flawless accuracy. A computer cannot beat a 6 year old child in Civilization. Computers are stupid.

That makes more sense. I think I was mixing savantism up with something else in my head.

Well, "learning disability" doesn't necessarily mean the inability to learn, just the inability to learn in the specific environments that people are generally expected to learn in.  This is why there are often attempts to educate learning-disabled kids in other environments.  What that actually says about their universal, environmentally-independent level of intelligence probably depends on a lot of other factors.  I don't think we even have a way to measure environmentally-independent intelligence, and they are unlikely to get very far in the standard school system in any case, so I'm not sure it really makes much difference.

Inability to learn in specific environments is still inability to use intelligence. If you can only learn in a padded room with flashing lights, then you are pretty screwed unless the entire world is rearranged to take account for your speshulness. I know there's a movement in edumacation to do exactly that. However, this kind of idea of "accomodations" is seriously fucking up a bunch of learning disabled students, because it is designed to delude them into thinking their disability doesn't exist.

Look at it this way: if you only have one arm and one eye and you say you want to be a neurosurgeon, is it reasonable for people to say to you "absolutely, you can totally do that" or would they be better off suggesting that you do something where hand-eye co-ordination is less vital?

I was typing up something quite similar, but you worded it a lot better than I.

The problem is that "learning disability" is very general - it can refer to people with dyslexia, or people with mild to severe autism, or people with mental retardation, or probably any number of other things.  All they have in common is that they have more trouble that usual learning in the environment they're expected to learn in.  Some of them can be fixed with minor changes to environment, some of them can be fixed by taking certain drugs, some people do fine if they have someone else take notes for them, and some of them probably can't be fixed at all.  I've never been diagnosed with a learning disability, but I have had problems with certain teachers to the extent where it was impossible to actually get any benefit out of the class because the teacher decided to take some kind of vendetta out on me.  This was easily fixed by my transferring to a different class.  Most people I've met with "learning disabilities" had remarkably similar problems with learning - some superficial aspect of the class they were in made it impossible for them to learn, and they simply transferred to a slightly different classroom or a slightly different teacher or employed different strategies for taking notes/doing homework/etc. or took some mild-strength drug to help them focus and the problem was more or less solved.  I don't think the vast majority of these cases are about accommodating people with serious mental deficiencies, but about having teachers show some creativity and flexibility to actually help their students learn.

Actually, when I was 18 and relatively clueless about this sort of thing, I was under the impression that learning disabilities didn't exist.  I was told off by various people with learning disabilities who had done some of the things I listed above.  Clearly, these measures don't put anyone under the impression that their problems don't exist.  I'm sure a lot of non-learning-disabled people will have trouble learning in situations that others would not, as well - it's just that since they never had to try learning in those environments, this disability was never recorded.

Dude, this is a result of your personality disability, not a learning disability.


Well, one person's creativity and flexibility is another person's having educational standards. I deal with learning disabled students all the time, and a lot of the ones with alphabet disorders have this idea that I should redesign my courses to suit them. Occasionally, I get the talk from them about how my assignments, which are designed according to specific pedagogical principles to be open-ended and require critical and analytical thinking, are counter to their disability, because the way they learn requires detailed and specific instructions. Now, to me, the ability to work out how you are going to approach the task is absolutely the student's responsibility. I will HELP, but I am not going to set all that out for you, because I am teaching you how to do it yourself.

I have met with disability support people, and they always say, "oh, yes, the student has to work this out, and we will help them develop a plan of attack" but the students themselves often bitch and whine about it, and talk about how "my other professor" spoon feeds instructions: "wipe nose, get out pencil, find a piece of paper". So I am skeptical about how much of this is related to disability and how much to intellectual laziness.

I once had a learning disabled student who was in my class, and was a whiny bitch. She came back 2 years later to do another class after having been in the workplace, and her attitude was totally different. She would come to me with plans of what she was going to do, and ask me for my input, instead of complaining, she actually had strategies for getting the work done. When I commented on how much better she was doing, she said something to effect of, it is amazing what you find out you can do when you are getting your ass kicked in the real world.

My point here is, there's a difference between working to overcome your issues and expecting everyone else to stoop to your level.

Which is why I prefaced that by saying that I don't have a learning disability, though I don't think I was the only person with a "personality disability" in that instance.


So, some of your students are lazy.  They are obviously not damaged beyond the ability to learn anything, and nobody is forcing you to completely redesign your courses to accommodate them, or trying to convince you (or your students) that the learning disabilities do not exist and the sole responsibility of the teacher to deal with.  I don't see whatever vast speshul learning disability bureaucratic conspiracy you think you're up against here.

Learning Disabled does not equal stupid.  The opposite is actually often true.  True LD people have average to exceptional IQs.  That being said, I do agree with Rohina's statement:

"Inability to learn in specific environments is still inability to use intelligence. If you can only learn in a padded room with flashing lights, then you are pretty screwed unless the entire world is rearranged to take account for your speshulness. I know there's a movement in edumacation to do exactly that. However, this kind of idea of "accomodations" is seriously fucking up a bunch of learning disabled students, because it is designed to delude them into thinking their disability doesn't exist."

There are a number of examples of exceptionally talented, accomplished people who are LD.  They are those who think outside the norm,  figure out what and how they need to learn, and end up owning the world.  The edumacators who make excuses and tell the students that it's okay that they don't know something are doing a terrible disservice to everyone.  The "LD" students are no longer held accountable, so they no longer try to figure out things on their own.  When they go out into the "real world," they are going to find out first hand that the accommodations aren't so accommodating.

See, I keep hearing about all of these horrible horrible OMG terrible conspiracies to protect learning-disabled kids in a bubble and not requiring them to actually think, but have never actually encountered them anywhere except in blanket statements on message boards.  It's like how Communism/Socialized Medicine/Dirty Mexicans/Neoconservative Jews are somehow taking over America, except that rohina isn't American, so the madness has clearly invaded Australia as well.

I never said I was. The only conspiracy in this thread is the one in your head which automagically reads everything I write as "ROHINA IS THE ANTICHRIST" in your feeble little brain. Go away, the adults were having a conversation.

Yeah, well, the inability to learn in ANY environment is a sign that YOU ARE STUPID. For instance, some people have difficulty learning under conditions which involve flying shrapnel, bullets, and nearby explosions. While certainly not ideal conditions for study, you should still be capable of learning under these conditions if you have a brain at all. Some people simply cannot. We have a word for them: DEAD.

So what did you mean what you said this?



Sure.  My point was that "learning-disabled" simply means that you have trouble learning in whatever specific environment they first tried to teach you in, and not that you are incapable of learning in any environment whatsoever.

See, I keep hearing about all of these horrible horrible OMG terrible conspiracies to protect learning-disabled kids in a bubble and not requiring them to actually think, but have never actually encountered them anywhere except in blanket statements on message boards.  It's like how Communism/Socialized Medicine/Dirty Mexicans/Neoconservative Jews are somehow taking over America, except that rohina isn't American, so the madness has clearly invaded Australia as well.
[/quote]

NIFL (National Institute for Literacy) estimates that up to 80% of high school drop outs are LD.  As an ABE/GED educator, I find those numbers are greatly exaggerated.  Those numbers, generated from just that one source should indicate something.  Empirical evidence shows the most common issue is behavior/self-control in the younger drop-outs, whereas in the older students, the most likely reason for dropping-out was to take care of responsibilities.  Yes, of course there actually are some students who are diagnosed LD, but they are the ones who are coming back just to prove to themselves they can, after achieving what they intended.

As for Rohina not being American - she is from an English-speaking, western civilization, and as an academian (sp), is probably more informed about the educational trends that go on in the US than most people IN the educational system.


LD does not include anyone with mental retardation.  That is covered under mental retardation (or some subcategory). 

I think shrapnel and bullets would induce FASTER learning! (or death.).

Not saying you're wrong, but what does "empirical evidence" mean to you?  Personal experiences with your specific students?  Anecdotes from friends?  Actual data from an organization you trust more?  Which one?


I call her rohina because that is what she chose to call herself.  If she wants me to capitalize her name, she can go into her profile and change it.  If you want to take up this issue with rohina herself, be my guest.


I am not saying she doesn't.  In fact, I am asking for her to give her Official Academic Opinion (tm) on this subject, with supporting sources of course.

Also, "(sp)" is the same thing as saying "I care about appearing educated but I'm too fucking lazy to actually look up the spellings of words."  Fail.

I really should have included that the information was based on my experience and interaction with my students.  You know, the HUMAN interaction with other humans, where I actually meet, observe, interact, assess, teach, talk, celebrate... As opposed to a questionnaire built to build statistics.


Why?


Actually, it's spelled absolutely correct.  Did you check?  I wasn't happy with the specific application of the word in this case.  A "member of an academy, university or college" could refer to just about anyone.  And frankly, brain-fartage came in the way of thinking of a more applicable term. 

What makes you think your class is an appropriate sample of the entire country?  What makes you think that the organization did not actually talk to real people?  Do you have any explanation of how these results might have been produced if they were not in fact correct?  Your personal experiences are probably relevant to the discussion, but using them to "disprove" the findings of an actual scientific study is bullshit.


Because I want to see her actually back up her blanket statement with something of substance?


It doesn't matter if it's spelled correctly, and it doesn't matter if I checked your spelling for you.  The fact that you found it necessary to put "(sp)" in your post means that you didn't check your spelling even though you were unsure.  Either that, or you don't know what "(sp)" means.

You may not have personally encountered these bubble kids, but I was forced into a peer based tutoring program for LD kids in the American public school I went to.

None of the kids I was assigned to had any ability to think for themselves. They were within a year of my age at the time and they behaved like children 3 to 5 years younger. They all suffered from self-entitlement and outstandingly huge egos from the years of ass wiping in the LD classes and/or by their medication dispensers/doctors. At the end of the program, I was the one held accountable for their failures (what the shit, I was 12!) and they were told "It's not your fault she failed you. She must have a teaching disability." and were ushered off onto the next year of LD studies. No accountabiliy and no reprocussions for failure, regardless of how or why they failed. The program even went so far as to give me a negative modifier to my Civics grade, causing my Honor Roll status to be removed.

Just as a note to my post, I'm not backing any particular side of this discussion, but I wanted to say that I had seen such children in my personal experience. As you stated, rufio, personal experiences are probably relevant to the discussion. Consider this as my personal experience added to the discussion and in no way is it an attempt to disprove anything.

Obviously, you have absolutely no idea what and/or how statistical data is generated.  Questions are asked, yes.  Interaction, however, is extremely limited. 

I never used the word "disprove", hence my use of empirical evidence to explain my reasoning.

Why?[/quote]

Again, why?  Isn't her experience enough?  You, who thinks that LD is included in mental retardism?  You are asking for substance?

  I can help you with reading comprehension. 

What you are describing doesn't sound like LD.  That sounds more like emotionally disturbed. 

I argue that some kids simply have a problem learning in environments that don't contain enough beatings. Solution: More beatings!

maurie, double-posting is somewhat taboo here.  Edit your first post to include the text of the second.


I know how statistical surveys are conducted.  I don't think it's an especially enlightening procedure myself, but this seems like a fairly straightforward question - it's fairly easy to determine whether someone dropped out of school, and probably also fairly easy to determine if they have been diagnosed with a LD.  The possible answers for both questions are "yes" or "no".  There isn't a gray area to confuse things.  Of course, this data itself does not go into why every single one of them dropped out, but it shows what they wanted to show (apparently) - that LD kids are getting shaft from somewhere.


Sorry if I misunderstood you, but it seemed like you were saying that the study's results were wrong and then giving your personal experience as a refutation.


I don't have any particular faith in rohina's experience, no.  Please to be doing a search of Retardo Land before jumping into the middle of preexisting fights.

Reflecting upon that craptastic time, the students could have very well have been emotionally disturbed. However, to my knowledge then and now, I know that there were some children who were LD who weren't exactly as I described. A majority of the ones I encountered during that time were. A few even managed to enter the same high school I attended and participated in regular classes... but with a lot of accomidations. Such as no homework and very little accountability for classwork. That high school didn't have a seperate department/set of teachers to assist LD children, so the entire class had to deal with their accomidations.

That was the main reason why I dropped out of that high school. I was sick of class being dumbed down to an astounding degree and being treated as a troublemaker when I asked questions that made the others think.

I meant exactly what I said. It's not a conspiracy, it's a misguided educational approach. I don't think there's any mystery about it, however wrongheaded I think it is. Students with learning disabilities are being encouraged to think that they can do whatever they want, to the point where my office mate got a student in his class who seriously could not write a sentence, but who wanted to be an English major so she could be a writer. Her language and cognitive disabilities were so severe that she was never going to be able to pass a Grade 12 equivalent English class, but teaching aide after teaching aide had passed her along, giving her the idea that not being able to write a simple sentence (and we are talking "the cat sat on the mat") was not going to hold her back.

Oh, and I see from subsequent posts that you have decided that I am making all this stuff up. Well, there's a shock. If there's any information you don't like, just dismiss it out of hand.

@maurie and others who are less insane than rufio: my experiences are anecdotal, but they come from 8 years teaching in a post-secondary institution in Canada. I have at least 1 LD student every semester, and I think my peak was a glorious 12 one semester when I was teaching a class they are all drawn to like bees to honey.

Well, that's just dumb administration.  It sounds like what they would do with Algebra and Geometry at my high school - someone decided that everyone must take Geometry in 10th grade, even if you'd failed Algebra in 9th grade and therefore had no real background to properly learn the Geometry.  That's not just a problem with LD kids.

BTW, what were her language disabilities?  Was it specific to writing, or was she just not able to form grammatical sentences at all?


I did not decide you were "just making all this stuff up".  I am just sick of hearing you go on about things like this that I have never personally seen happen or even heard about from anyone not on a message board, without one single anecdote to show what you're talking about or one single guess at what might actually be happening to cause it.  If I have to attack you to find out WTF you are talking about, so be it.

Guh, more reading failure. No one was MAKING this person take English. They were encouraging her, merely because she had expressed an interest in it, and in spite of a bunch of issues that made it pretty much contra-indicated. If my blind person had insisted on majoring in Art History, do you think that is something she should have been encouraged to do? Or at some point, does someone need to say, "Uh, dude, if you can't see the paintings, it is going to be a bit difficult for you to write essays about them"?

What the hell is your argument, now? That my experience is nothing but anecdotal? Possibly, except I have had discussions with other academics about similar situations. Oh, but you don't believe me when I say that? Because really, your argument, based on nothing, is that you have decided I am bad at my job?

What is your evidence to support your position? That you had some teachers who had trouble putting up with your shit? How is that valid, if you are dismissing everyone else's personal experience?

As far as your "I am sick of you saying things outside my experience", well, I am sorry your experiences are so limited. Have you asked an educator about these issues? I mean, if you are complaining that you haven't encountered these opinions elsewhere, I have to ask if you have put yourself in the way of encountering them. MATY is full of people I wouldn't meet AFK. It's one of the things I like about this place, actually, since meeting retired mercenaries who live in bunkers is not something that would normally happened to my sheltered, Ivory Tower, self. Meeting entitled assholes who think they are smarter than they are is something I have no shortage of in my workaday life, though.

If you are now dismissing arguments people are making here because they are making them here, I have to ask wtf you think you are going to accomplish. Maybe you should go have a lie down.

Ah, see, you mentioned grade 12, so I thought this was high school.  Maybe you should be a little more clear.  If it's college, though, I can actually understand it - she's paying them money to take certain classes, and I can see them getting worried about lawsuits and crap if they tell her, "You don't have the mental ability to major in English" or something to that effect.  Idiotic?  Sure, but I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about it.  Passing people randomly because they want to be writers is not something I have ever heard of before, though.  Unless this is something totally different and you have once again failed to communicate what you mean. 


I think you need some help with reading comprehension.  My point was that I see you whining about this all the time and wanted to know what, specifically you were whining about, and since asking you simple questions doesn't seem to work, this is my only option to get you to tell me something real.

I asked you another question too, which I'm actually interested in hearing the answer to, but once again you have completely ignored it in favor of venting your spleen.  I guess I will have to attack you on your abilities to analyze and identify language disorders among your students in order to get an answer to that one.

Not sure I understand this.  See, she did actually tell the story of her office mate, who had a student with a learning disability who wanted to be an English major, but couldn't write a sentence, and yet was being passed along, likely to her detriment...

Seems slightly more than merely anecdotal to me.


Yes, perhaps, but you invite people to vent spleens.  In fact, if this was a desirable skill, you could become rich running spleen venting therapy sessions.

Do you even READ what people write? It was directed at YOU for fuck's sake.


If you are not going to READ, then stop fucking arguing. No one else had a problem understanding what rohina meant there. Reading comprehension failure.

So... rake in face, or are you the new fingers-in-ears?

I said "Grade 12 equivalent" and "my office mate" who, oddly enough, also teaches in the same department at the same post-secondary institution. rufio, as usual, embodies that saying about assuming stuff. Do everyone a favour and go back and read the words in all my posts on this subject, in order, rather than your usual method of reading one word in 3 and then guessing the rest according to your rubric "rohina sucks and makes stuff up and I don't like her talking about things I haven't personally experienced because everything she says is supposed to be about me".

Look, rufio, I wasn't "whining" about anything. I was offering a comment on my experiences with students with Learning Disabilities. I don't know why you have a bug up your butt about my doing that, but apparently you do. I made it clear that I am speaking from personal and reported experiences, and what the scope of those experiences is. I offered an example of one of my students, and one of a colleague's. What is it, exactly that you have the problem with? Because it seems like your problem is "rohina expressed an opinion". The solution to this problem is for you to GTFO.

And to answer your question about what the student's specific disorder was, my response is "AH HA HA HA HA, you poor naive little rabbit." At this level, students are protected by FOIP and don't have to SAY what their disabilities are. At least, not to lowly beings like profs. We just have to accomodate the disability, not know what it is.

I think it's fairly safe to say that rufio doesn't read other's people posts. She scans them for something she can nitpick and argue semantics on, and harps on it for ages to show off her intellimagence. Failing to see that, by not taking the time to properly read, she just makes herself look like a head peen waggling idiot.

My father was a 7th-8th grade teacher for fifteen years. He had a lot of LD students in his classes and he was required to adjust his classes accordingly. He had 30-40 students in each class, he had to challenge the bright kids, make it easy on the LD/Tards, keep the average kids happy, teach toward everyones individual learning style, and couldn't fail anyone. He had to do all of that without modifying his curriculum in any way (easier homework for the LD/Tards, harder work for the bright kids, etc). I honestly don't know how he did it. There is a lot of pressure on teachers to individualize their classes, while treating every child the same.

My brother and I were both diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder while we were in college. Instead of encouraging us to learn appropriate coping skills, my parents immediately petitioned my college to "help" my brother.  He has always had trouble with standardized tests that required bubbling in the answer on a separate sheet. He would frequently bubble two answers on one line, skip lines, etc. They wanted him to be allowed to have extra time on the exams and have someone to bubble in his answers for him, and possibly take notes for him.  ::) They wanted me to be allowed to have extra time on exams as well, but I told them that I didn't need extra time (I was always the first or second student to finish).

The school refused, they claimed that they didn't have any sort of program set up to deal with learning disabilities and they were not going to set one up. My parents were pissed and threatened to sue. I think the only thing that stopped them was lack of money.

Both my brother and I ended up dropping out of school not too long after that. When I went back to school my parents suggested that I go to the Disability Support Services department at my school and get help. I refused, because I don't need help. It's a struggle to stay on task but I have learned how to cope, without medication, and how to be successful in spite of my "disability". My brother, if he does ever go back to school, will probably ask for help because he believes that he needs it.

Why thank you Captain Obvious for proving the point I made in the very same post. Which, had you read it for the novel concept of 'content' you would have *hopefully* comprehended that part.

I can't speak for other areas of the world, however it has been my experience in our wonderful public education system here in the USA that it is now 'politically incorrect' and 'offensive' to call individuals with mental deficits 'retarded' or 'mentally retarded'. As a result of the pansy-ass hand-holding, heaven-forbid-we-'offend'-anyone-by-stating-the-truth attitude children who are retarded/mentally retarded are referred to as having 'learning delays/disabilities'.

Which is asinine, but may explain a bit of the confusion.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but every child grows up to be an adult who is expected to function to the best of their ability in the society which they live. Ignorance, stupidity, and deciding to not remedy either or learn on a conscious/subconscious level not being a sufficient reason for failing to function to the best of their ability. Then isn't taking children with actual learning delays/disabilities out of mainstream learning situations doing them a gross disservice? After they've somehow matriculated into adulthood how are they going to, for instance, gain employment? Take Rohina's padded room and flashing light scenario. What *average* employer is going to create a speshul room for an employee in an average position so that they can learn/function on the job?

Yay for public edumacation. It managed to identify the child's speshulness and adapt to it thereby hindering the child's ability to function in society as an adult!


Oh, no. We're still totally a society of capitalistic democracy over here. Our current president just happens to believe in a federally organized and maintained compulsory health care system. That the top 10% should have to pay more in taxes because they have the temerity to earn more that the herd of shepul who pass for your average American these days. Let's not forget part of that process is the federal government determining whom is in said 10%, how much more they should have to pay, and taking it from them to fund 'social programs' to benefit the shepul. No, no, that does not sound at all like 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs'.

If memory serves, and please correct me here if I'm wrong Rohina, Australia runs on the same schooling system as England. Therefore, when she said 'grade 12 equivalent' she meant first year of university there/fourth year of secondary school in the US.

When I read this, I was reminded about some commercial I saw about an awareness program to stop calling retarded people retarded. It had some goofy acronym for it. If I can find it or remember what it was called, I'll edit this post. It was just amazing when you watched it. It was so politically correct, you wanted to vomit.

I don't know why you all assume I am in Australia. I have said several times where I am.

N00b making an assumption based on what RUFIO wrote. Big surprise there. rufio read that you USED to live in Australia, but only read the "live in Australia" part of the sentence and FAILED to notice the "used to."

Are we surprised?

We have discussed this awareness program here at MATY already. The consensus seemed to be that our Tards are altogether worse and well deserving of their Trashcans, scorn, Tard status and special titles, unlike those mentally retarded people / small-L 'tards out there who had the misfortune to be born that way but who can be pleasant to be around even if dim; and, also, This Is MATY, We Are Not Politically Correct, Take Your Butthurt Elsewhere.

If you have an interest in that sort of thing, the Search box will help you find the original discussion about this.

Ah, I apologize. I hadn't considered that this particular commercial would have been brought up here and discussed in length. I had picked up on that the Tard titles and such weren't being used in a fashion to bash those who are actually mentally retarded. Also, I enjoy the fact MATY isn't politically correct and encourages people to think. I appreciate the guidance, Lorelei, and thank you.

It's interesting to see that opinion on special treatment of children with different levels of ability is so inconsistent. Accommodating needs of children with LD is seen as society pampering them, at the same time catering to the needs of advanced students is seen as a duty of educational system.

Everyone deserves a fulfilled and dignified life. That is all. If we can provide help, than by all means let's do it. And if by trying to help people lead a better life we reshape the society a bit, than all the better. A norm is a norm till it's not.
 
There is, after all, a thing called solidarity, n'est pas?

I believe the point is that the "accommodations" that are being used to help "level the playing field" are inconsistent, impractical, and ineffective.  What is actually being observed is that the LD students are being passed along without being able to perform the tasks required to advance to the next level.  These "accommodations" are consuming time, effort, space, and financial resources that could otherwise be used to benefit those who are capable of learning and performing at the determined successful levels.  I don't believe anyone, especially an educator, would want another to go without education.  The argument is  having realistic goals as opposed to encouraging someone with no spatial ability that they can successfully walk a tight-rope.

What is this "caterng to the needs of advanced students" to which you refer?  I have never experienced any "catering" to an individual who works hard or has an innate ability to learn; the benefits they derive is completely earned.  In my experience, the needs of those who are advanced are neglected and ignored in order to accommodate those who need more help. 


I wholeheartedly disagree with this statement.  No one "deserves" anything unless he or she has earned it.  I will give my all of my efforts to help someone who is working hard to achieve his goals.  I will not, however, do the same for someone who thinks she is entitled to what I have earned, just because she breathes.

Yes, after I harassed her about it.


Thank you.


Surely you can be more specific than "unable to write a simple sentence."

Taking my sister out to dinner, BRB.  I'll get to the rest later.

The issue here is that the playing field is not level, and that the needs of the advanced students are ignored in favour of those who are struggling. The most common example of this occurring is that brighter students are often required to mentor or tutor slower ones; this is seen as a solution to the problem of disparate abilities in the classroom, but effectively it only benefits the child being tutored, while the tutor is as bored and unchallenged by the material as he/she was previously.

@stupio, I gave an example well before you started charging around with your headpeen, actually. I gave the second one in response to a series of comments from other people, so don't act like you are somehow the saviour of debate.

With regard to the student who was not my student; no I can't be more specific. I saw one piece of her written work, which was basically a mess of unrelated words. The rest of the situation I knew about because my colleague discussed it with me. We have, oddly enough, a collegial atmosphere, where faculty discuss students and pedagogy with one another. No doubt you have some huge objection to this that you will drag out in your next response.

I suspect you were meant to answer with something more specific, so that your qualifications to make such a diagnosis could then be questioned.

I wish I had thought to insist on special treatment during my stellar four  5 1/2 years as an undergrad, as I am ambition-impaired, and my professors did nothing to accomodate my condition.

Edit: strikethrough doesn't play well with the number 4.

Yeah, you totally missed a chance there. My best student ever was the one this semester who went totally off on me for not accommodating her disability, even though she hadn't actually gotten around to requesting accommodations at that point.

Eh, even when you accommodate, they still whine that you didn't bend over quite far enough.  I had a girl who got mono halfway through the semester, extended the deadline for the third paper until the night before grades were due, and she gave me a paragraph and asked if she could have more time.  Uh, NO, grades are due at noon.  It took you three weeks to write this paragraph, so I won't hold my breath for a miracle.  Or you sit down and go through the paper with them line-by-line because they actually showed up during your office hours, which at least shows some initiative, and when they get the final paper back, they accuse you of hating them and wanting them to fail because you didn't rubber-stamp it with an A, and dislike the reply of, "I told you what to fix and how to do it; I have no control over whether or not you actually did it, and did it right."

And then there was this guy.  I'm not sure how he survived long enough to get into my class.  In the past, he probably would have been left for the wolves or sacrificed to the thunder god or something.
The assignment was to describe a meal in objective terms.  It was supposed to be 1-2 pages.  This is what he turned in:
"It is Thursday night or what my friends like to call "poker night" at their apartment.  It is midnight and after four hours of drinking beer and playing cards one of my friends mentions ordering food.  Even though the idea of food had not crossed my mind because of the focus on cards as soon as it is mentioned I immediately start to crave wings.  Me and a few of my friends call an order and minutes later the doorbell rings and the wings are here.  I smell the very framiliar and comforting smell of honey barbecue sauce which I have grown accustomed too after a few years at UMASS and many late nights out such as this one.  It smells similar to a sweetened form of ketchup.  My Friends and I open them and all conversations and focus from anything else end as we are all fixated by the food.  The strong smell of the sauce fills the room with the slight smell of the few pieces of celery from the box.  With the smell of beer and alcohohol still dwindling among us all smelling of wheat and yeast."

Oh yes.  It really is that bad.

It sounds like the National Health Service in the United Kingdom. In the recent local and European elections, the party that dominated the United Kingdom was the Conservative party, a mostly socially-conservative, economically right-wing, establishment-supporting party. Despite its right-wing credentials, the Conservative party wouldn't dream of trying to abolish the NHS; that would be seen as electoral suicide over here. Socialism? You guys aren't even close.

(As a side note, I am told that the UK government actually pays less per person on health care than the US government does. Make of that what you will.)

To clarify my earlier assumptions that it was a high school - I made that assumption because I didn't realize there was any fucking way that something like this could happen in an actual college.  If it's true, I am as appalled as you are.  My best guess (given what you've told me) is that they simply want her tuition money, and they don't get it if they let her fail.  So they sell her a diploma that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.  Capitalism at its best.  ::)


I haven't read this entire thread, but rohina has told me in the past that she did live in Australia, and that was what I was going by.  I don't recall her stating where she lived in this discussion so far.  If she did, then yes, I must have missed it.  Right now I don't have the leisure to spend a lot of time reading internet forums.  My apologies.


Ahh, so you never personally heard her speak, or anything like that?  Sounds like a syntax issue though.  My asking wasn't anything to do with you, by the way - I was just curious, since I am actually interested in this stuff, unlike you (apparently).  I don't know much about language-related LDs, so I certainly wasn't going to question whatever you came up with, but I learned about some stroke-induced language disabilities a few semesters ago and found it pretty fascinating.  New wrinkles in the brain, and all that.

So you admit that you don't really read what I post, but just make up stuff in your head about my motives and the truthfulness of my statements? Awesome.

If you make a blanket statement that contains no actual information that looks just like a mindless rant about Communism/whatever the fad is now, yes, I am going to be skeptical until you actually back it up with something that looks genuine.

Communism WOT? What are you even talking about, rufio?

CITATION NEEDED. Where is this "mindless statement"?

Who's having trouble with reading comprehension now? (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,15068.msg442848.html#msg442848)

Apparently I am having trouble with reading comprehension. I see no mindless rant about Communism/whatever the fad in that post. Non-standard reading comprehension FTL.

You must have linked to the wrong post, because I don't see any "mindless rant about Communism/whatever the fad is now" in that post.  Perhaps the post you thought you read exists only in your head?

EDIT: ninja'd by jesslla.

I'm sorry if you have trouble understanding the purpose of a simile.

Wouldn't that depend upon what kind of blindness your student had, and how profoundly blind he or she was, and why he or she wanted to take Art History?  There are blind artists.  I even recently heard of an exhibition entirely made up of the work of blind photographers.  Most of these people were "legally blind":  they could still see, but needed a lot of help.  In fact, one said that he used a camera as a sight aide:  he took photographs of things and *then* he could see them.  Blindness and Arts  (http://www.blindnessandarts.com/institutions.htm)

I'd want to be very careful before I ruled an entire field of knowledge off-limits to everyone with a certain disability. 

A suitemate of mine my sophomore year was a similar situation. She had some sort of emotional disability, developmental delay I'd guess, and the critical thinking of a 6. She was a freshman and I couldn't believe that she'd been admitted to my college, which was sub-ivy but private, quite expensive, and difficult to get into. Come to find out, she was the daughter of a major donor. She had tutoring, summer sessions, an aide in class...and for what? What would her joke of an education get her that daddy's money wouldn't play a bigger part in?

In high school, my school moved towards inclusion. I wasn't in gifted talented at the time because I was sick of not being with some of my friends and I didn't see the point to AP. Well, except for Bio & Physics. The inclusion students had a wide range of disabilities and really most of them weren't any sort of problem. There were two, though, who I dreaded having in class because they would ask so many questions and we'd waste so much time in class going over the same thing twenty times for them. It was boring and aggravating, and didn't exactly move me to want to interact with them socially.

To clarify: I was thinking of a student who was very, very blind (not just legally blind), writing those essays where you analyse the composition and details in a given painting.

My point is that I do feel like there is a resistance to telling disabled students that they suck at stuff, which is still something "normal" students will get from time to time. I don't see it as purely negative, either; it's life advice, like I was given when I was kind of caving to parental pressure to do Law, and someone (a mentor) said "you are going to be really bad at it and end up hating it, and these are the reasons why." That was, in some ways, a difficult conversation, but I appreciated it. If we are prevented from having those kinds of conversations with people with disabilities, is that really a good thing?

I think there's a subtle difference.  For example:  it's very nice for lots of people to study music.  Very, very few ought to be encouraged to pursue it as a profession.  I didn't enjoy it when a voice teacher opined that I would not ever develop the voice to sing opera.  It may even have been true that my "real" voice wasn't going to come in until much later (she said this when I was twenty, and darker voices do develop late.)  I still think it wasn't bad for her to say that, because it forced me to re-evaluate, and ultimately, I don't have the right temperament for it.  A real future opera singer would have said "So?  I SPIT me of your opinion."  I wasn't disabled.  I just didn't have a truly magnificent voice, and it's really stupid to try to be an opera singer without a truly magnificent voice.  And no one really wants to say to anyone, "um, your voice?  Nice.  Not great." 

Someone who truly wants to do something extraordinary is going to move heaven and earth to do it.  Someone in a wheelchair who wants to do ballet will sneer at obstacles and work without sleep for a decade until she has put together the Wheelchairinas and the media is doing breathless stories about it.  That's not anything like watering a discipline down. 

I am having difficulty picturing La Butt as a lawyer.

Part of my job was once to make musical performances relevant for deaf students.  It's actually rather fascinating to pull apart all the facets of music other than the actual tonal experience and see that it's still an interesting subject.  We went into visual representations of rhythm, experiencing the effect of sound waves by holding a balloon, demonstrating the mathematical relationships between notes with vibrating rubber bands, etc.  I'm not quite sure the bureaucracy was as helpful... having to hire a sign-language interpreter for a 100% musical performance is just a fancy way to give the translator's arms a rest and create a ton of questions about why that person sitting on the edge of the stage never did anything.  

You are so stupid it hurts sometimes. The fact that you remember rohina telling you at some point that she DID live in Australia means that you were present for a conversation in which she used the past fucking tense.

People don't use the past tense if it is still true. Common sense would dictate that by using past tense to describe where she lived, it means SHE DOESN'T LIVE THERE ANYMORE. So, if you don't know where she lives NOW (and considering that you never read anything anyone says, I'm not surprised you don't know) then don't ever say anything about where she lives.

It makes you look stupid when you base an argument off of where she lives to dismiss her point and you have it WRONG.

Trust me, you don't need anymore help looking retarded.

And you know you're stupid when even the Jelly agrees you are stupid. Even the Fs think you are stupid.

Is everyone SURE that rufio isn't an ExtraSpeshulBear sock?

Naw, the Bear wasn't quite as pigheadedly stupid.

Yes, ExtraSpeshulBear has been disappointingly boring lately, in my view.

The faulty logic and inability to listen or comprehend is all too eerily similar though.


I am counting this as a win.

i've made a post on the official forum that probably is full-filled of grammar error.. at the i'm me  ;D

actually i can't find a correct place where post this stuff, so maybe this the correct one 'cause the dancing grammar style  ::)

about this thread (http://forum.thesims3.com/jforum/posts/list/34737.page#262430) that probably EAxis will censor, so before they censor me, i wish to save my post  ::)

Why are you interrupting our fight with your nonsense?

Start > All Programs > Accessories > Notepad.

In fact, she used the present tense, which you would have understood if you knew anything about how tenses work in reported speech.  Since you are clearly having trouble, let me rephrase:

rohina said (in the past), "I live (in the present time of the past utterance) in Australia." = rohina said (in the past) that she lived (in the same past time) in Australia.

Contrast:
rohina said (in the past), "I lived (in the past time before the past utterance) in Australia." = rohina said (in the past) that she had lived (in the more remote past) in Australia.

Is that clear enough for you?

Dude, given that I have been living in Canada the whole time I have been a member of MATY, you are talking out of your ass again. QUOTE THE POST or it didn't happen.

Maybe I'm misremembering, then.  I probably got confused by all your butthurt about me referring to you as Canadian, or something.

So, that would be your third admission in this thread that you don't really pay attention to what you read. Can we just go ahead and conclude that you have some kind of comprehension disability?

A disability where I don't remember everything about everyone I meet online?  Sure.

Well, it's more than that, isn't it? Because you didn't just say "I don't recall". You asserted, several times, something which I said was not the case, accusing me of lying about my circumstances, and when challenged, you then made up evidence, presumably because you couldn't find evidence to support your assertion because there wasn't any.

As I said, I was mistaken - I didn't remember exactly what you said.


Where?


Where?

Accusations of lying:




Completely made-up bullshit:


More bullshit (which also includes an implication of lying), which people have already called you on, since you have short-term memory problems and can't remember this happened a page ago:


Those are just the most recent ones.

Again, I think you are just seeing what your persecution complex wants to see.  Before I'm going to trust your experience as a professor, I want to actually hear some specifics (which you gave).  Something that looks like a baseless rant is going to continue to look like a baseless rant until it is backed up, regardless of who says it.  It has nothing to do with you personally.

My explanation to Jelly was an explanation of what I said and how tenses work using you as an example since that was what we were talking about.  What I said turned out to be mistaken, and I acknowledged that you were right about that.  The grammar lesson has nothing to do with that.

What persecution complex? Do you make contact with reality at all? Like, maybe, checking in for 5 minutes once a day?

I just think it's endlessly funny that rufio gave me a lesson on past tense when I am not the dumb ass that thought rohina LIVES in Australia.

Also, word to the wise, if you don't want rohina feeling *snickers* persecuted *roffles* maybe you should STFU about her.

To paraphrase Lorelei: Disabling the ability to type "rohina": would it cause you endless distress and an inability to communicate, or would you work around it? Discuss.

One among your horrifically long tealdeeresque list of general failings is this: You keep stringing random shit together and claiming that it somehow constitutes "an explanation" or "evidence" or "grammar knowledge". Please look at it this way: I could sellotape together a pack of mentally retarded Atenist monks and call it "a religious revival", but that doesn't mean that we should start parading around the red disc. You're putting forth points that are almost, but not quite, completely irrelevant to the matter at hand, then doing entirely the wrong thing with them in order to achieve what you apparently presume to be some greatly significant epiphanies (and what, to everyone else, look like the ramblings of someone who decided PCP wasn't cutting it anymore and tried to shoot up pure mercury instead) - it is a lot like if you were to take two lemons and a bag of flour, shove them up your Reese-Witherspoon-distended ass, and call it a rhubarb pie. Now, would you be so kind as to take your late-night-frat-boy ramblings ("Have you ever, like, looked at your hands? I mean, like, REALLY looked at your hands? It's like, like, there's a whole other person, like, beneath the surface, and... [insert abrupt snoring noises]") to somewhere wherein someone actually gives a fuck? White Castle, maybe?

(http://missmalini.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/45126791.jpg)

Oh DEARIE ME the puffery on MSTY has gone to his head. Still, I am enjoy.

The imagery. Reading that post is like walking through a vulgar art gallery. Thumbs up here, too.

That looks just like how I imagined Nailati would look.

Puffery? There has been puffery? Who is puffing, and who is being puffed?

Don't look so innocent. Someone has a crush on you, when you are not being an ass or whatever. I think I know who it is. Will I say? I will not.

Oh, THAT puffery. I don't count that because I like being an ass or whatever. It is all part of my Badass Image^tm.  :P

 :-[Gosh Simmers I'm new here this is my second post I didn't know that people  spoke so mean to each other >:( I'm on my way to find a safe and respectful site  :-*

(http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/uglybutt/shivgorilla.jpg)

Sig for posterity:
I'm guessing that RN stands for "retard nugget."

I would like to know more about this method of prying for peace. Does it require a special crowbar?

RN is the code for Rimini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rimini). In this period of the year is (sadly) chock full of fucktards. That could explain something.

I heard that prying for peace was illegal in some countries.

It's O.K. if you're prying for Democracy, though.

Oh, sweet Jebus, the poor, virgin sensibilities! Didn't know people spoke to each other like that? Really? Please tell me Fluffy the RN was confessing an ignorance of the way people behave on this site and is not having a tragic epiphany about man's inhumanity to man. "Gosh" indeed. You enjoy that safe, respectful site, Fluffy. I'm going to stick around here and pry for peace.

Why would anyone come to the home of "MOAR FIGHT!!!" and pry for peace?

Isn't that sort of like going to E3 and asking for a moment of silence for the passing of Jack Thompson (we can dream).

On the other hand maybe prying for peace means using a crowbar to effect peace through superior firepower (since there aren't any weapons in TS3 yet a crowbar would be superior firepower until someone made a better weapon).

if we are talking grammar police , shouldn't plz be please?

It would lack sarcasm, in that case.

worse than that, it would imply intelligence.

Oh, the irony of some tard who can't punctuate complaining about nonstandard spelling. I think we need a rubber room for you people.

Fuck me. For a 2 post person you're ARROGANT.

(Yes, I lack posts too but I know my place)

A rubber room in an asylum run by grammar cats.

No one will ever fuck you ugly shit, remember that.

Was that supposed to be
or
?

Speaking of shit, I've been wondering: what is more correct, 'one shit, two shits' or 'one piece of shit, two pieces of shit'?

Well asked, Tsarina, though either intent still begs further grammaration (it's a perfectly cromulent word!).
There is also a third possibility, an insistence that the world has abandoned fornication forever. I doubt this was gumba's meaning, but such a ghastly lack of clarifying punctuation leaves one's meaning open to all manner of guessing.
For a newbie to blow his first post with such a poor display of grammatical stills - while posting in a GRAMMAR POLICE thread, no less - is pitiful, indeed.

Either would be correct. Selecting the more appropriate phrase would depend on specific context.

Your mom fucks me every night and loves it, so wrong there.

(When talking to the childish, I feel I must use retorts on their level.)

I lol'd.

Thank you for answering my question, Liz. I thought 'one shit' was similar to asking for 'a water' which is, as far as I know, wrong. Or am I mistaken again?

Holy **** what is up with your avatar? O_O

What are you talking about, Jelly? I have not changed my avatar lately. May I suggest you lay off the meds?
To be honest, I'm not sure. I stole it from someone on LiveJournal, and I felt it portrayed my reaction to MATY quite well.

*laughs* I just noticed it. It messed with my head. Couldn't decide if he was some sort of slug boy, into tentacle pr0n, or really, really surprised. =p

I actually know where that avatar is originally from. It's from Uzumaki. It's a Japanese horror comic where some really fucked up shit happens, like people turning into snails and then some people start eating those snails. Fun!

Mmm, giant escargo... sounds yummy.

The question of "a water" is an interesting one to me. It may sound incorrect, but then it's fine to ask for a lemonade, an iced tea, or a grape juice, isn't it? Asking for a water skips the signifier, the "glass of". Ordering with a signifier would perhaps be more proper, as it can assist in alleviating certain ordering confusions (A beer? Do you mean a bottle of beer, can of beer, or a glass of what's on tap?), but I don't see why grammar would insist you include it for water when it seems perfectly permissible to omit it for other beverages. "A water" sounds more peculiar to our ears because we know water as a substance that doesn't come in individual units. However much water there is, a few drops or an ocean full, you still only have one "body" of water; it's all "some", which leads many to feel one ought to order "some" water when thirsty. Certainly, one can also order "some" lemonade, tea, or grape juice, but "a" should suffice when naming one's beverage of choice, even if that choice is water. I personally prefer to include the signifier and ask for "a glass of iced water", finding it less open to interpretation (no bottled silliness, thanks, and yes, I do want it cold), but if one chooses to omit that signifier and simply order "a beverage" instead of "a cup/glass/mug/pitcher of x", I see no reason "a water" shouldn't be every bit as permissible as "a glass of cold gravy with a hair in it".

When it comes to "one shit", appropriate use would depend on context, wouldn't it? Are you referring to one pile of shit, one piece of shit (maybe in a larger pile of shit), or perhaps one act of shitting (taking or giving a shit)? It's clumsy and awkward to tell your mates you're off to take one shit when "a shit" is correct (certainly no need to specify that you'll only be using the facilities once while you're gone), but if your physician asked you how many times you'd moved your bowels today, you might tell her you had one shit (two or more, of course, if your bowels are more active on the day in question). To whether one would need to refer to one pile or piece of shit, "some shit" would be correct when referring to the substance itself in any quantity, but there may be situations in which the quantity and/or arrangement of said substance is relevant. Perhaps someone inexperienced or uncontrolled in defecation made use of the nearest loo? There could be shit scattered all over the bathroom while one lonely, little shit made it into the bowl (of course that nasty shitter forgot to flush, and you just know he didn't wash his hands). There is one shit in the bowl. Still, unless there is such specific need to quantify shits in such a manner, "some" or "a" should be, in most situations, more than sufficient to the task.

But we much all remember that the word shit was most likely introduced into todays vernacular by the lowest common denominator, who do not know jack shit about grammar, and nor would they give a shit anyway.

FYI: when When correcting or commenting on grammar, it is best to ensure that you are also correct (the rest of the time, it is not as important).

There is no need to put "and" before "nor" - it is improper usage of two conjunctions.

Ahem.

"I took shit yesterday and I already took some shit today."  "Mr. Jones, your problem seems to be that you're taking the shit, rather than leaving the shit."  "Oh, well Doc, can you give me advices about how to stop taking shit?  The missis won't let up!" 

In conclusion, stop TAKING shit.  Seems like you uppity grammar types would refuse "take(ing) a shit" in preference to "excrete excrement" or "going to defecate" or "off to pass stool" or "make in the (use the) ((toilet)insert geographical slant/slang here), or some such shit otherwise.

Busted?

Actually, according to the style guide I used when I taught, there was no right or wrong when it came to spacing and capitalization following a colon.  It was more a stylistic choice, with the possible exception of a list after a colon, where the accepted punctuation is colon, space, lower-case letter.

Agreed.
http://www.englishchick.com/grammar/grpunc.htm
http://www1.umn.edu/urelate/style/punctuation.html#Anchor-Back-30815
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/colons.asp

LOLwhut? Stop TALKING shit, Numbnuts.

The discussion about "a water" reminds me of Arthur Ransome's use of the phrase "a sea" in his book "We Didn't Mean to Go to Sea" (1937):

"A sea broke over her bows, and sheets of water flew up over the cabin roof, into the mainsail, and splashed down over the struggling figures in the cockpit."

I think Liz's reasoning applies here, so it's another example of the same thing.

Except not really, since "sea" is a regular count noun with a regularly formed plural.  The fact that it's "a sea" rather than "the sea" just sounds like there's an implied "of water" there.

In my experience, "a water/lemonade/juice/etc." is mostly limited to restaurants, where it refers to a specific standardized drink order.  At home I wouldn't say, "I'm going to get a water" unless I was referring to an unopened bottle of water or one of many pre-prepared glasses of water, as opposed to, say, filling up a glass from the sink.

Saying "A" sea instead of "THE" sea makes me envision an entire sea flooding into some hapless boat, exploding it and sinking it in tiny scattered pieces instantly. *A* sea, to me, refers to a singular specific sea, which can be quite large, even for a small sea, as opposed to "the sea", referring to the ocean unspecifically, or "the seas", referring to the collective oceans.

I think it was probably meant to be hyperbole.

Have you read the book in question? NO? Are you familiar with Ransome's vernacular? No? Then STFU.

Thinking about rufio and Ransome in the same sentence makes me think of his comments about duffers and drowning. rufio is definitely a duffer.

"Pre-prepared"?  Wow.  I can actually feel a few logic buffers sizzling after parsing that input.

I am familiar with exactly what Sairsadel wrote, which is what I am responding to.  If I'm not being literary enough for you, I really don't give a shit.

Nimrod, if you don't know what sticking "pre-" onto the front of a participle means, I can't help you.

In that case, would you mind explaining what pre-prepared means? Before arranged beforehand?
I know what you meant, but the word itself makes no sense in that context.

Eh, prepared does not usually mean "arranged beforehand" to me, except in special cases.

"I drank a glass of water I had prepared." = I just now filled it from the sink.
"I drank the prepared glass of water." = Someone else just filled it from the sink.
"I drank a glass of water that had been pre-prepared." = It was sitting out on the counter when I got here.

It's a little weird to talk about glasses of water being prepared anyway, but then again we are talking about strange usage of "water" as a count noun anyway.  I'm sure everyone is now going to accuse me of being horribly non-standard.  Yawn.  I am not interested anymore.  Have fun.

If someone filled the glass BEFORE you were about to drink from it, it would indeed be arranged beforehand. 'Pre-prepared' is a pleonasm. 'Pre' is already a part of the word, and adding another 'pre' is silly if your meaning is any of the definitions mentioned here (http://www.google.dk/search?q=define%3A+prepared&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:da:official&client=firefox-a).
I could understand adding the other 'pre' if you were to express the state the glass was in before it was prepared for you, but that seems a bit muddy, and I'm sure there's a more fitting word for it.

Well, as you can see from the etymology in Jordi's cite, "prepare" is not actually an English compound, but was borrowed wholesale from Latin, and English is not Latin, etc., etc.  While "prepare" does (to me) mean that the glass was filled before I drank it, it can't be used to mean that it was filled much more than a minute beforehand, and in this case I wanted to say that it had been prepared a long time in advance.  (Incidentally, if the "pre" in "prepare" were a standard English prefix, "prepared a long time in advance" would be redundant.)

Does that make more sense to you?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2409/2036866796_a03b514fe3.jpg?v=0)

On a side note,

I really don't get why it can't be used to mean that it was filled long time beforehand, regardless it's derived from Latin or not.