More Awesome Than You!

Yeah, it's true, here:
http://www.thesimsresource.com/workshop

http://forums.thesimsresource.com/showthread.php?t=369614

With the support of EA, yeah sure.... ::)

I'm so hoping that MTS (f.e.) will be quicker than them...

Looks like crap to me, and I don't even know anything about custom content. Anything built at Redwood Shores, I do not trust.

edit: Oh god, PsychoSue's getting all riled up. SHE MUST. HAVE. RUST.

So wait. Are they actually making an exclusive custom content tool only for The Shit Resource? Fucking really?

I can only hope that, like most of their products, it's buggy as hell.

Sounds like it, if $teve is enlisting his minions. Moneyons.

Do we know if MTS will be running from MTS2 site... of will there be a new one? And is so, its it up and running? I haven't seen anything.

I think it is going to be all under the same umbrella of www.modthesims.com, from what I remember?  Maybe Delphy and HP have some specific domain picked out though, because it seems that one is not theirs.

Ok kool, I'll keep my eye out. Cause yeah, I have noticed a few sites registered but no action on them like modthesims3.org and all that jazz, she wanted to know where the official stuff will be from those wonderful peops over at MTS2

Not to downplay the TSR hate, but I read both links and I didn't see them make any claims of support from EA (though they carefully alluded to 'our time at EA Redwood' to add credibility--it's a newspaper trick), and they said the EULA will be flexible enough to 'allow distribution of content via any means, including free'. This is somewhat less juicy than I was expecting

But did the EULA of TS2 not say this as well.. But didn't allow the selling of CC? So by "flexible" in the EULA, they are meaning to say, we will let you charge to download CC. Seems TSR are EA are in bed together, I think.

Now either EA has given TSR a final, legit copy of the game that they can use to make this tool...or they're dirty steenkin pirates like the rest of us. :P

I like how they say they're using TS2 objects and show one. Yet in the same breath say they have added all the channels and such. How can they build an editor with out the code? If they're building it based on the TS2 model man are they in for a suprise. If they're doing it from TS3 then they're well ARGGGG!

They're referring to the EULA of their tool, not the TS3 EULA.

I am not a TSR apologist, but TSR/EA-Fusion-Apocalypse shit-stirring is not really necessary when there's no evidence.

If someone with more knowledge of the situation than me cares to jump in, that'd be great. I'm just going by what I read and I don't see the signs of the apocalypse yet. Maybe I missed them.

I agree, TSR tends to exaggerate how much EA is favoring them, so I sort of doubt they're getting ZOMGEXCLUZIVE!!1. However, I'm still suspicious of TSR and EA lurking around in the shadows and making out with each other as they are wont to do.

I see only vaporware. It looks like they only have a generalized capability to understand a common .obj format and display it, without actually being able to do anything USEFUL with it. No need to panic.

I would never announce vaporware.
I do plan on announcing something soon after June 2 that may change the channel.
That is, if N. Korea doen't nuke me first. :)

That's basically all it is at this point, import TS2 content or other .obj meshes, separate it into channels. Not much more until the game comes out and they can actually see how to stick the data into a Sims 3 package. Conspiracy theorists can stop panicking. (More so if they'd actually READ to begin with. :P) I'm pretty positive that there will be multiple tools out there to all do the same (or similar) things from multiple sources anyhow. I mean look at how many Sims3Pack editors we have so far. (Although mine isn't out there just yet, but still :P ) So quit getting so worked up about it and chill, good grief.

Well, Murano said it's "plug-in" based or something like that (he's very proud and uses "the news" already as his signature on another forum... ::)), and pretty much the same like SimPE.
If that's true and these assholes would be the first with stuff like that, I would be very disappointed to be honest... :(

It's all good healthy competition. :)

Someone called "Terry1950" Had this to say in one thread...


If he's relating to someone in the TSR community... How on earth are they able to 'test' mods and an empty neighbourhood without having the game.

Unless he/she is referring to MATY?

I'm sure he's referring to MATY and someone who is in both communities - Jfade was a TSR forum moderator, last I remember. ;)

It's definately MATY, TSR can't code for shit.

Wow, I think I lost a few brain cells from reading part of the thread about the workshop.  Cyclonesue asking if she could put her own textures on objects?  Hello what rock have you been under for the last year?  Tabbylou and some others going gawsh I'm sooo glad to know we'll actually be able to make CC for TS3.  Awfully misinformed bunch for being in bed with EA as so many people like to think.

But PsychoSue MUST HAVE RUST!
She NEEDS rust, man.

If they can pull it off, it's gonna be a neat little tool and I will certainly use it (assuming it's free and doesn't come with a clause that automatically uploads everything I make to TSR).

I refuse to let community politics get in the way of enjoying my game to the ultimate.  If I like the tool I will use it and I don't care wtf made it.

Hehe, I don't mind that she likes that look.  One of my TS2 sims has a nifty little converted factory loft apartment slash robot shop thanks largely to her stuff.  I was just amazed at the level of "durrr" coming from FAs/SAs there.  EA has been trumpeting the ability to import your own textures forever.  I wasn't nearly as surprised by Tabbylou's idiocy though since her idea of a kid's bedroom set is one where you've apparently glued Sesame Street wallpaper to the surface of every piece of furniture in the house and stuck it all in the kid's room.  :P

Heh. Big if, really. But I concur with the Grey Fatness. Tools are not good or evil, they are just tools. I actually prefer enemy tools. There's just something deliciously ironic about smiting your enemies with their own toys.

Tabbylou makes me laugh. I asked for game installation related help once and she basically stood there, wringing her hands until I wound up fixing the problem for myself.

Why does reading the T$R forums give me such a huge headache? :::whimpers:::

If TSR gets the texturing correct than that may be significantly more than an object viewer/importer/exporter as the game seems to be doing something quite new with the patterned textures which makes one wonder how they are doing it in the first place. Do they (EA) just apply filters to change RGB values at runtime? Are they even using UV mapping? Is it some kind of vector graphics trick? My head spins trying to imagine the mechanics of it....and what a hassle it would be to create, say, clothing with regions somehow properly "defined" to accept in game retexturing. Whatever else the problems are, this particular feature strikes me as possibly a first in gaming technology. I know of no 3D graphics format which has such definition capability built in, off hand. I don't think it could be reverse engineered without tech specs.

An object can't be coloured without some kind of UV map (material) applied to it - 3D rendering 101.

I would assume that each "Region" has a name and material assigned, ie: head, body, material, surface, etc...
With each material name, a basic UV map is applied. So, yeah, depending on the number of regions and names of those regions per model, one could at least give the basic colouration to the model.

Take one of the shirts for the female for example - the one that looks like a strap-shirt with a long sleeve shirt underneath. that shirt has two regions, and those two regions must have a material name assigned to them. One could theoretically create their own object with those two regions named identically (but arranged differently), and possibly have the same effect within the game even though the regions aren't placed identically.

It's really just a matter of knowing the naming scheme of the objects and knowing how to get them into the game.

Actually, objects can be colored in many ways other than UV maps, and "materials" (usually parameters related to the object's interaction with light) are not always synonymous with textures (they are two different things in, for example, Blender), and games traditionally do not rely on "materials" as much because they can be computationally intensive and are thus more common in 3D for stills or animations. There are also numerous other projection methods, planar, cylindrical, you name it. Shaders (which are synonymous with materials in some apps) can be used instead of images or materials or in combination with them. UV mapping just happens to be the most efficient for 3D gaming or at least the most commonly used because, I guess, it better utilizes the memory resources of the graphics card while using very little processing time. Assigning separate images to regions on a single object is right off the bat a less efficient way to do it assuming separate graphic assets were loaded for each region and might cause a hit in graphics performance. However, on the other hand "procedural" is currently the rage in optimizing game engine performance. Making something "procedural" is taking game elements or assets that were formerly hand made, such as animations, and calculating them at run time to move some of the burden from the graphics card to the CPU and cut costs and time for asset creation (this example obviously not being used extensively in TS3 where they seem to use the same animation assets from TS2 and most animation transitions still segue first to a "default" state before going on to the next move, the toddler being the most obvious where he/she walks to the potty, sits down, slides, gets back up, then sits on the potty...).

Despite all this, it is obvious from looking at CAS that separate "images" (whether actual bit map image files or some other device) are assigned to separate regions. That they can't be resized using a slider and the subsequent blurriness in game seems to rule out the possibility that vector graphics are being used, but that is not definite. Looking at the wood textures, for example, they appear to have a lower number of colors used, so it almost does seem as if they were using a vector graphic format which would be much easier to procedurally adjust to diverse geometry at run time, would take up much less memory, and would explain the ability to easily alter individual colors within a given texture pattern. It would explain the "cartoony" look of many game objects. The more I think of it, I would implement this using vector graphics and then rasterize them on the fly. For those who are lost on this, raster graphics means the normal ones you make in Photoshop etc. made from pixels, vector graphics are stuff like Flash or Illustrator that use line, curve, and area definitions to describe the image so no matter how much you zoom in you never see jagged edges.

So anyway, point being that I think more is going on under the hood than one might have expected. My gut feeling is that "recolors" isn't going to be as easy as the standard method of generating or reusing a UV template and dressing it up in Photoshop or whatever. I would not be surprised if vector graphic "patterns" were the only form of texturing accepted for many objects with the exception of, obviously, UV mapped bump/normal maps and also perhaps a UV mapped grey scale image for "baked" shadow details that may be what they are doing to mitigate some of the flat bland cartoonish quality. Those last two would obviously have to be generated at the object modeling stage because whereas normal maps have until now been usually fudged from the basic color image map, the TS3 patterns have no information in them which could generate normal maps. So for the really high end object creation you would have to model a detailed object, generate your normal map and baked shadows, then reduce polycount (and detail) for the object you actually import to the game, which is the standard method for next gen games at the moment.

This is all just to give everyone an idea of what the TSR people would have to be tackling to produce what they claim they are producing. If they succeed, you would be hard pressed to come up with a better tool, politics aside.

But now I get what you are saying. Getting the objects into the game and getting the textures into the game are, unlike TS2, largely two entirely different processes for CAS or build colorable objects. You could import an untextured object as long as it had the regions defined/named properly, which is precisely what the TSR tool says it will do.....doh  :P Got it :) Still, that method would be missing the baked shadows and normal maps step which would have to be included or the imported objects would stick out like a sore thumb.

Edit: but (probable) baked shadow maps appear in the drop down menu in one of the screen shots. Interesting. Perhaps that means they are successfully reading the in game file format without conversion.

I was inclined to think that the clothes at least might be UV mapped because I'm getting 'bleed' of areas (such as belt colour 'bleeding' into the clothes, and pattern edges being blurry - on highest detail level), which is common if your texture map for your UVs is small. That said, I've never experimented much with vector texturing, and that does explain being able to change the colour without eating insane amounts of memory. It's possible the vectors are rasterised but still quite small, which would cause the blur. If vectors were used in Splotch I'd be inclined to think they'd use a similar system for Sims 3, although Splotch wasn't quite so blurry to me.

If it's materials, then it's going to be quite difficult to take out of game - usually materials are set by the software, rather than by an external file, unless Sims allows access to its material/shader files?

For a straightforward object then cubic, planar, spherical texture projections would would just dandy - I can forsee lots of beginner objects having horribly skewed textures if people have to make unique UV-projections, or attempt to map a complex object with a simple projection.

If we're able to use normal maps for detail as opposed to a rediculously high poly, then that's awesome as far as speed ingame is concerned, and it's (afaik) standard for games that want large amounts of detail but not at the expense of speed. At the same time, unless Blender allows you to create normal maps by projecting the high poly onto low poly, I'm not sure of any free 3D apps that have that feature. (And now that the major 3 3D apps have been bought by the same company, their prices are probable soon to rocket)

Are you suggesting that one creates a seperate map for baked shadows (say, ambient occlusion-like shadows as opposed to direct cast shadows, which would be impossible to know without a lightsource) which is then layered over the pattern texture? That's quite nifty - I haven't noticed it myself, but then I haven't been looking for it. I suppose that's exactly the point - subtlety. Is there any ambient occlusion between objects, btw?

How about Sims skins? They're horribly bland at the moment, but of course one can't make a set of individual skins - they've got to be slider-able, and would presumably need to be default replacements. Unless there's a very simple darken/lighten/levels/whathaveyou tool, I'm not sure what format you'd need to make the skin with.

Coconut weighs in on this issue. (http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/?p=791)

Coconut does not have the full facts.  Based on the facts she probably does have, I can understand her point of view.

You mean in terms of technical limitations?  I do think it's weird that they are so intent on getting everyone to download it, though.

I am not sure they are any more eager to be appreciated for their tool than anyone else would be?  We'd all like to think what we make is getting downloaded a lot.  There's real people making that tool, and they're gonna feel rewarded if people enjoy their work.

Besides, their reputation has been so tarnished and I am sure that that has affected their subscriptions so I can understand wanting to snag as many downloaders for this tool as possible just so that they can try to bring in fresh meat who might have a "See, TSR isn't so bad now" attitude.  Plus, one of the problems that people have had with them for long is that they use the free tools that others have made and the knowledge that has been gained by the free community to create and SELL content.  This time they are hoping, I would guess, that by getting a tool out there they will at least not have to deal with that argument anymore.  I would still rather get a tool from some other source just because I would rather not support that effort.  If it works well and there isn't a freesite alternative I won't pass it by out of spite though.

EA has alluded to allowing "authorized" co-conspirators  paysites cc creator site(s) several times in the past year--saying something similar to "CC will be available via the exchange and authorized EA distributors."   Items that you submit for CC on their exchange become their property (& thus their authorized distributors as well) to do as they will.  So no more creator usage agreements once you submit your work to EA.

Thus it seems EA turns into the "paysite" protectors.  As such it is completely feasible that TSR (and/or others) might have some type of working relationship with Eaxis.

If so, once the details emerge it's going to be an absolute shitstorm.

Noooo, there's just gonna be lots of nice free modding tools and nice free stuff made with them.  And a few pay things, too, just like there have always been.

Coconut posted about the TSR tool here (http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/?p=791).

keirra, I think that link was posted upthread a few posts.

Inge, I should've been more specific: I'm referring more to the idea that *if* this alleged partnership existed, and if that 'authorized distributors' verbiage is accurate, then EA could be in essence saying that all freesites were 'unauthorized'. I was probably following the logic a few too many steps (not to mention there are a lot of 'ifs' that I don't necessarily believe) without explaining myself.

That is how I took it too...that any one else who decides to do free content (or pay) that isn't "authorized" will basically be violating EA's new rules.

Well anyone who wants to turn the EULA into a weapon of words can work themselves up into a dither about the legality of this type or that type of CC.   As far as I am concerned the Simming world is gonna carry on as it's always done, with EA either encouraging all CC of any type however made, or at the very least turning a relaxed and amiable blind eye to it.   All this hair splitting is pretty much last century's fad, as far as I am concerned.

Not sure if anyone has checked this post from SnootySims out: http://www.snootysims.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29745 (http://www.snootysims.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=29745)

Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeo_Danaos_et_dona_ferentes).

Agreed.  Another Virgil line -- "haud ignota loquor" -- pertains to what you said, methinks (as it were, you speak things that are not unknown).  Nothing is truer than the truth.

http://www.thesimsresource.com/workshop/news/view-post/post/11576/TSR%20goes%20open%20source%21

I think they have nothing.. ;)

Ah, ok, so the tool will be made by Delphy, Inge, Peter, Echo, jfade, atavera, Mootilda and Karybdis. This makes sense  ;D.

Wow, powerful all-star line up there. Like the Chelsea of the sims community  :P

Inge, are you actually working on this?

I am wondering the same thing after reading that crap @ T$R.

Inge and Delphy wtf??? Please don't work for these assholes... :-[

It's just missing Numenor and the all-star line would be complete...

Imagine my surprise at seeing my name on that list.  I honestly have no idea that I'm collaborating on a TSR tool...  I must be sleep-coding.

Yeah, this is kind of what I expected. I halfway wonder if they aren't going to gank the knowledge off of Sims3Tools or wherever else ya'll coders are chatting and use it to create an inferior tool. But then, I've just been making dinner and did happen to touch some tinfoil while I was rummaging through the cabinets.

Inge is over at Sims 3 Tools... Delphy has a section there also. 

I agree on the basics, i.e. it's a tool, it's free, the more the better, etc.
But my point is that they're so full of shit I can't even think of talk to them.

Even their presentation is full of shit, and this precisation is full of shit as well. I feel so sick I would like to puke.

TSR has NOTHING to do with the sims community. They chose to put themselves out, not us. And now they want to USE the community again for their personal advertisement and money? And you are giving them what they want AGAIN? Oh god.

Seriously: what, exactly has TSR to give to the community, with this tool? There's something the community would not be able to have or develop on their own? What, exactly, is TSR bringing in this project, apart of those shitty ads?

I honestly have only superficial knowledge of the modding community, so I assume there has to be more here going on behind the scenes than I could possibly understand; if it's what it looks like from my standpoint of ignorance--that TSR just hijacked a bunch of well-known names without the owners' permission, to try to make 'their' project look more credible--that's some ballsy shit. There has to be more to it.

(Even if they're just trying to wedge their fat commercial asses into a seat at the freely-shared-info table, that's still some ballsy shit.)

Really? Wow, thats just another proove why T$R is a lying and sneaky organisation...

But I'm also shocked that Delphy and Inge are on that list. Lets hope this isnt true...

Well, I do know that a number of people have been discussing tools.  You can see some of the results on Inge's site.  And I believe that at least one of the people involved in those discussions is from TSR.  But, that hardly makes us all collaborators on a TSR tool.  More like one TSR developer might be helping out with some free tools.

At this point, I'm not even sure that I want to get involved with modding TS3.  I've been following some of the discussions, but not contributing, so I know that my name shouldn't be on that list.  Which means that TSR are liars.  Note that I can't speak for anyone else on that list.

It looks to me like they are trying to get support for their tool by using my name without my knowledge or permission.

But I find it really stupid with helping T$R creating a Workshop Tool for Sims 3, in my opinion Delphy, Inge and all the others should make their own tool for their website, or for MTS.
Though helping the enemy to be the first one with a tool + getting more promotion is really disappointing...):

Yet another reason to hate them...Though I would never download this tool anyway...I don't support these fuckers.

Or is he trying to pick up enough from what other modders are doing to try and make the TSR tool actually work? Or am I being overly cynical?

I just re-read what they are actually saying and it seems to me they may have been trying to say something along the lines of "We got started and now we are stuck so we are going to open up our new tool so others can come in and help us fix/finish it."  They seem to be throwing out names like an invitation to come in and help them.  If you go through the statement they are trying to act like they are deciding to make the new tool open source so that the community will have the tool faster but knowing them, it seems less likely the reason than "we need help". 

They have no idea how to state things and seem to constantly cause misunderstandings with the way they say things but I think that based on what we know about them, the modders they are referring to and the situation at hand I would say this is a more likely explanation. (And the one I am sure they will use when they realize the way their statement was interpreted,)

Coconut's reply to you in the comments section...

So, by the timing, super honest TSR is using pirated versions of Sims 3 to make it's new tool?

Either that or they've been given a copy early by good old EA.

I'm not surprised that Inge is in on it.  She's basically said that if TSR got every other Sims site in the world closed down she wouldn't care cause it's only a game and jfade is a moderator over there, so why anyone here is giving him help is beyond me.

I've decided that it's not worth the bandwidth to download free or not, and now that we know TSR is going to dominate all CC, with the help of shills, I'm sure of it.  I'm only coming over here to watch the trainwreck.

According to jfade, they are using Sims2packs and objects to test the functions of the program.


...Because we like jfade?

Jfade's awesome, leave him alone.

Inge ... did you forget to take your medication again? You sound a bit grouchy to the n00bs.

Coconut updates again...

http://tsr.mustbedestroyed.org/?p=791

That's not what I've heard from her, but I'm sure she knows her mind better than anyone.

My point in asking wasn't to question Inge or anyone else's motives or to make any statement about their reasons for involvement. I said Jfade wouldn't surprise me because he's always been involved with TSR. The other names I questioned, and just wanted to know if TSR was spreading bull or was on the level. As a former member of the site, I've learned to question everything they say.

If it's a collaborative effort, that makes me feel better about it on a certain level.

iInge's own words in this topic:



Sounds to me like she doesn't give a shit who she helps. 

and jfade? go look up his rant about how Pescado is lying about TSR putting a Trojan in their downloads.  It was posted right about the time that TSR hacked MTS2--which jfade still claims never happened.

Dude, we all know where jfade stands on the TSR vs. everyone else issue. We know his politics.

We do not like him for his politics. We like him for his personality.

Unless someone else is more directly involved than I am personally aware, what is happening is that some of us have had access to a collection of files from the game, not all from the same source, and not the entire game by any means, for a while.  We have been pulling apart and analysing these files in order to learn how they can be edited by custom tools.  Seperately, TSR have *probably* been doing the same for a while too, with a different collection of files.

Recently it was decided to swap information we have found out, to facilitate toolmaking in general.

To the best of my personal knowledge, no one in my group of file analysis associates is working on the tool TSR are making, and vice versa, beyond answering an occasional technical question and sharing a file extension convention (standardisation for the convenience of users).   Even within our own analysis group, we are all working on our individual and unrelated tools.

The whole thing has been kept very secret until recently because we were worried EA might change all the package formats - or some other such fiendery - if they found out we knew the existing ones.  Although I half wonder if EA themselves might have left some files available in order to give the modding community a bit of a start.   We just played safe.

Please note - no one in my circle had anything to do with the pirate versions that have come out.  They were not made from any files that we have had.  Our interest has been purely in making modding tools.

ETA: Lerf, I am sorry you want to give yourself ulcers over this.

@Inge: But why does TSR say that you're working with/for them? Are you supporting TSR now??  :-\

I'd be in favor of not badgering the folks who may produce shinies for us.

Merlin, I don't think I can make it much clearer how everything fits together.   If it looks to you like other people are saying different, then it is either that those claims are inaccurate, or that they are ambiguous (and you read them the wrong way), or they haven't said it at all and you're reading something that is not there.

As to whether I am supporting TSR, that would depend on your understanding of what comprises support!  If you think offering information about fileformats is supporting TSR, then you will probably think of me as supporting TSR.   If you think I am completly lying about my involvement and that I am really on their board of directors, then you will certainly think I am supporting them.

Personally I just got bored with the paysite issue and I am treating TSR owners/modders like I would any other site owner/modder.   I would have thought that had sunk in at least a year ago (for those who could be bothered to notice my views) when I concluded that the anti-paysite movement was having no significant effect on the pay/free distribution of game content, and was simply stirring up hatred and distrust and therefore having a nett negative effect on the community.

I know you will hate me now, but for me that is support. Though as you said you're tired talking about the free/pay fed, I can 'understand' somehow your decision although I'm a bit shocked that you're sharing information and help them with that to create their 'exclusive' workshop.

And trust me, if you wouldn't be a member here I probably wouldn't be that shocked...

That's ok Merlin, it's your brain, you have to organise it how it suits you best :)

Thanks for this answer!
This lousy excuse just confirms that I'm absolutely right with my presumptions (or better: facts)...

 ;)


And it's all fine, if you can deal with working for a fucking... that shares personal informations,hacks other websites, betrays their members etc.


Edit: I think I'm done with this conversation. I can't stand T$R.

Well, I basically agree with Inge on this one, although I'm not involved in the creation of any Sims3 tools.

I have always tried to share information that I find out about TS2: posting file formats, discussing the way that the game works, and updating the wiki.  I honestly believe that the community is best served by having information freely available to all.  I've never tried to keep that information from people at any paysite.  In addition, my tools are available to all and I'm sure that people at paysites use them.

So, if that makes me a collaborator, then I'm guilty of collaborating on TS2 (not TS3, though... that's definitely false information).

However, if andi had not posted what he knew about hood and lot packages, I never would have developed any of my tools; that information was invaluable.  I honestly hope that people will share TS3 information as they have shared TS2 info in the past.

It seems clear from what Inge said that various people from the community are trying to determine file formats and using that information to create various tools.  TSR's statement is misleading, since it sounds like they are saying that TSR is running the show and allowing non-TSR modders to "help" to create tools which TSR has generously decided to share.  As far as I can tell, that isn't the case.

I'm definitely put off by this. 

On the other hand, I agree with Inge.  If sharing info with people from TSR means that we have a better tool sooner, then hooray.   Also, using TSR's tool to make content that's free for everyone > TSR using other people's free tools to make pay content, IMO.

My question was asked about Inge and the rest, cause I don't believe Thomass. My thought is "Propaganda and Lies" about the tools. (Borrowing the phrase...)  Now I don't mind getting info to discuss, but I would love for the original Sims 2 modders to offer a tool of their own. My distrust of TSR, yeah I got the tinfoil hat, have me believing when they offer the tool for free, later down the line it will be up for purchase. Maybe for updates or whatever. If we don't fork over the cash, no more CC for you! My paranoia.  :P

This:

Does not mean this:
Either you have major reading comprehension issues, or you don't give a shit if you slander someone.

Besides, its a matter of principle.  Just because TSR is run by some very underhanded, unethical, selfish people [imo] doesn't mean we have to stoop to their level and be as nasty.

I have a series of statements that you can take any way you like.

1. McCarthyism much?
2. Freedom of information specifically as it relates to the sharing of information by diverse groups working on similar progects.
3. Exchange of facts is not collaboration.
4. To anyone who still believes TSR's implied 'information' rather than Inge, Mootilda or any of the others we've received so much from in the past - I have a beautiful, one previous owner, bridge in fine condition + it's made of pure gold and weigh's over a ton. I'll sell it to you for US$3,000.

By that definition, then the entire free community been supporting TSR since day one of TS1, so it's a bit silly to start complaining about it now. ;)

The free community is just that. Free. We don't try and withhold information or knowledge or specifications or tools in order to advance our own position. We publish it, we share it, we have wikis for it, we write tutorials for it. Because our information is freely available, TSR has complete access to all of this information without any catches. They always have, and they always will. The difference in this scenario is that TSR are adding their own findings to that general, "free" set of community knowledge. Paysite politics aside, that is something of a show of faith from them.

Arguments seem to erupt with frequency here. To my knowledge, so one is helping TSR create their tool, other than the people TSR has named as a part of the effort. Some people (well, at least one lonely cowboy) are competing essentially head-on with their efforts. Sharing format discoveries has been a part of the community for longer than I have been a part of the community, and I support that level of cooperation whole-heartedly.

A lot of technical facts on this game have been disclosed today, on a wiki donated by MTS, and more will follow soon. The gal being villified somewhat here was a part of that effort, and eventually all will benefit in ways not yet foreseeable. Exchanging information at this level is like sharing recipes... execution is the key, and success is 90% perspiration. The best oven and recipes will not survive incompetent application.  I have certainly benefitted as a programmer from the testing efforts of some who are associated with TSR, as well as some that have been very avid anti-paysite advocates.

<* Wes *>

Arguments? At MATY? Naw.

It looks like the vector texture theory was correct:

http://linna.modthesims.info/download.php?t=343036

*delurk*

This was the issue when that mts2 account got hacked right? Where a 'creator' for TSR first downloaded a custom mesh from mts2, made some recolours, put them up for sale on TSR and then said mts2 account just happens to get hacked and their files, free mesh included, gets deleted and is thus only 'available' on TSR?

Actually, they are talking about using vector drawing tools to make patterns with.
The patterns are multiple DDS files, which are just raster grpahics, using color channels on one to define the zones.
Everything at the engine level is standard game graphics and UV mapping, except that the textures are built from multiple layers, and colors are added in predefined zones based on the color values that were specified for that zone.

Wes_h, I heard you have already exported a mesh out of the game and stuff like that? That is great! (:


And about TSR, again, they are liars.
They just took famous names for their Workshop to publish it.


Here's their embarrassing edit:

QUOTE BY T$R

Edit to clarify: The Open Source team are working on the code that will allow us and other websites to develop software to support Sims 3 Custom Content. They aren't working on the TSR Workshop directly, they are working on the generic libraries that as Open Source, anybody can use. /Steve

Edit no 2: Those names mentioned above was a list of modders supporting open source in the past. All have acknowledged their participation in Sims 3 and this project with the exception of Mootilda and Atavera (thus their names are removed). We're sorry for the confusion!

http://www.thesimsresource.com/news/view-post/post/11576


Ridiculous...and stupid.

Yes, I admit to having posted a modified glasses mesh Tuesday, and some MilkShape plugins, godsons of UniMesh, they are. I may be a one-trick pony, but I know that one well by now.

With things like chat, there are opportunities for developers to communicate information on a transient basis. Someone probably mentioned some names in a 'conversation' that might not have been meant to be published like that. There may be more names that weren't mentioned, ones that you know well. All have contributed a lot of knowledge and discoveries, over years of time for many, and have helped a lot of people learn new skills.

If TSR does what they claim they are going to do, release source for the libraries and offer use of the tool freely, then they will have done a good thing, even if for self-serving purposes. If they don't, it will validate the suspicions of many posters. Being how I am, I will wait and see, and continue executing my own personal agenda, which is pretty much to do all I did before for TS2, but better this time.

<* Wes *>

I truly appreciate your work. Wish I had the brains to help.

Inge was driven away from the Sims community once before by ungrateful assholes who demanded things of her.  I know it's naive to hope that people will learn from experience, but Melvin, could you please not tick off the nice lady who makes the wonderful mods?

"Hand."  "Bite."  "You."  "Feeds."  "Don't."  "The."  "That."  Make a sentence using these words. ;)
 

Couldn't agree more.

Reposting because it got buried at the bottom of the last page:

I'd be in favor of not badgering the folks who may produce shinies for us. And an addendum:

If you don't like it, learn to do what they do, and then feel free to withhold that ability on your own terms.

Someone needs a bit of a lesson in logic.  I suppose insofar as Inge provides information to modders at TSR which is helpful, she is supporting them.  However, she is not doing this exclusively, IIRC.  She has clearly indicated she is extending the same courtesy to modders there as she would to any modder who sought her expertise.  I would think there might be an issue if she was withholding her learnings from anyone except TSR, but she is not doing this.  She is, in my view, being community minded and has indicated that her learnings are available to modders wherever they are.  This supports the community at large more than TSR.  Therefore, the Merlin presumptions are wrong, and not even approaching facts.

By all means feel free to express haet/raeg at TSR, but making innuendo and accusatory statements at MATY should be backed up by much more solid argumention than is demonstrated by Merlin.



WIN!  I love the understated elegance of this remark.

If you haven't seen it already.. http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=315753 (http://modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=315753)
the site is now modthesims.info (http://modthesims.info)

You're stilll able to get to it by modthesims2.com. There is a bunch of sections for the Sims 3 in the navigation.
Hope I helped.

"The Capitalists will sell us the rope with which we will hang them."  -- V. Lenin

Well, we can see how prophetic he was.

When people upload TSR files to the booty, they're giving full credit to the person who made the mesh or the recolor.  The creator also got paid for making that mesh or recolor, if it's in the booty.  What Shakeshaft did was totally different--taking a mesh that buggybooz made, making a few small changes, and uploading it to TSR as pay content, without giving buggybooz any credit at all.  And that's leaving aside the fact that buggybooz's TOU stated that her content wasn't to be uploaded to any paysite, or to TSR at all.  If you don't see how those two things are different, you probably don't belong at MATY.

Seriously children, meshing is hard to get right. There are plenty of things that can go wrong with it and cause exploded meshes, borked files and the whole nine yards.

I hate TSR as much as the next pirate and think their management could quite cheerfully DIAF for all I care, but I'm all for things that will provide me the means to attempt to mesh for TS3 the way I was able to in TS2. I was predominantly a clothing mesher for TS2 so admittedly I am watching Wes_H's progress like a hawk with anticipation to see if TS3 will be in the "too hard basket" for me as far as the effort of meshing will go (seeing as though I ended up meshing and creating more than I played and I started resenting it), but like mootilda said it shouldn't matter who makes the tools if it benefits everyone.

With that said, I don't make a habit of sticking my hands down a lion's throat so I'll wait until a few sacrificial lambs have downloaded said TSR tool first and come out of it unscathed before I make use of anything from their site.

Thank you, I already know that.
TSR has the Pattern Plugin now:  http://www.thesimsresource.com/programs/details/title/The%20Sims%203%20Workshop/id/111/