More Awesome Than You!

I've been helping Pescado set up the Cheezeserver fundraising mechanism for this year; as many of you know, we had a horrible experience with PayPal in 2006, and it took a year to recoup the money. Hence, Pescado (and many of us) are loathe to go with them again to raise the $2500 needed this year.

We've been searching for alternatives to PayPal, but for various reasons, either the alternatives are dead, not open to US customers, or completely dodgy. One option we explored was so awful it makes meeting in dark alleys and exchanging suitcases of money sound HONEST.

Thus, I've been asked to pose the question to you: should we accept that PayPal is the behemoth of online money transactions and hope for the best? Should we open a post office box somewhere, have you mail money in and we'll manually process the checks and money orders? Should we offer both options? Or do you know of something we might not have found that doesn't have exorbitant fees and doesn't make us feel dirty (and allows for US customers)?

While I've never had any cause to use it, have you checked into using Western Union?

I think the fees on that are positively murderous when transferring small sums.

One kooky idea would be offering merch with a high mark-up via Cafe Press or some such.

The poor can afford a sticker. The better-off can afford a t-shirt or other stuff.

Checks go out after payment is processed and return deadline has passed. You get every penny of the price you set over the base price of the objects.

There are enough artsy types here to make designs and donate them to the cause.

An anti comic sans store that doesn't use comic sans for their font?

I'd love a MATY t-shirt or a bumper sticker.

I'd so buy a MATY T-shirt, if I had any money. I'd also buy them as gifts, too. Who wouldn't want one?

If I were to design it, it would have a giant Malaysian flag on the front, with the words "More Awesome" above it and "Than You!" below, and on the back there would be a hammer-and-sickle, in red, between the shoulder-blades, with the text "In Soviet Russian, T-Shirt wears YOU!!". Because that's just what MATY is.

Then again, I would also totally buy "Bathroom Uses YOU!!" styled toilet paper, so maybe I'm just gullible.
(For the record, I would definitely buy a real-life Lot Debugger. It would be an awesome decoration if people knew what it was. If they didn't, though, they'd assume I was obsessed with Batman or something.)

Hmmm. The fees on Paypal aren't much better.

I'm thinking you guys are mainly in the US. This could cause a problem for UK contributors.
How about a PO box for US, and Paypal for overseas?

I never had any problem with Paypal.

We as contributors didn't have problems with Paypal the last time, but Pesc and company had enormous trouble getting the money we sent to Paypal paid out to them. The payments ended up in some Paypal limbo for quite some time, and many of us had to request our money back from Paypal for 'non-delivery of service' (or something like that) because it would otherwise have hung in limbo for a long time.

ETA: Found the thread from last year on the Paypal mess: http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,7107.0.html

In tiny print, I'd want "Every time you download the Inteeninater, God kills a kitten." I would pay cash money for this.

Well, the Cafe Press idea sounds like a winner so far.  Does anyone know how good they are about coughing up the cash?

I want a MOAR FIGHT!! coffee cup.

Ohhhhhh! Tshirts, coffee cups and fridge magnets, oh my! I would totally buy something like that.

Poking around the internet for reviews, I'm finding quality and customer service issues with Cafe Press.  Zazzle allegedly gives higher profits; both stores pay out the profits at the end of the month.  There is a general review (http://www.t-shirttalk.com/2008/03/31/review-of-13-t-shirt-companies-service-records-better-business-bureau/) of T-shirt printing shops based on their Better Business Bureau reports that may be of interest, although some of the stores mentioned only sell T-shirts.

I think we need a new poll with the overpriced T-shirts/stickers/magnets/etc. option.

Edit to add reviews from Epinions:
CafePress reviews (http://www.epinions.com/Cafepress_com_Online_Stores_and_Services/sec_~opinion_list/display_~reviews/pp_~1/pa_~1#list)
Zazzle reviews (http://www.epinions.com/Zazzle_Online_Store_-_zazzle_com/sec_~opinion_list/display_~reviews/pp_~1/pa_~1#list)

I like the idea - and we can add some piratey options to the mix (because PMBD is part of Cheezeserver) if it's a go. If BastDawn can't help me edit this poll, I'l make a new one.

After this, I seriously have to buy a whole bunch of t-shirts that say "Enthusiastic, but socially inept" for my friends. We have a running joke that random people who come up to you in public places and want to talk about godknowswhat should wear identifying clothing.

I'd buy one that just said "socially inept" on it.

How about Meyers-Briggs type?

"I lied about being a T and all I got was this lousy tee-shirt."

Hur! I like it.

But yeah, I'd totally dig a t-shirt or coffee mug whatevers.

I like the MOAR FIGHT mug idea.  T-shirts also good.  A "Kitten Killer" shirt would be fun, complete with the picture.

Or mouse pads. Since we're all nerds.

I was gonna say that!

I would love a coffee mug or tshirt.  We should have a running list of MATYisms and choose which ones to use

The problem isn't GETTING the money, the problem is that if we try to send money to Malaysia by Paypal, they tend to decide that we're terrorists and freeze things.

So prove them right! There are very few problems that cannot be solved by liberal application of Molotov's party drinks.

Okay, chancing a good tell me off zinger, here I go anyway.

I would like the mailbox idea. Money orders are nice.  That is how I used to do Ebay...way back in the old days. No one gets your check info...no once can steal much other then the money order. Not meaning you would steal the info...but since the vet admin, in the US, lost all of my husband's and daughters, and my info...to computer theft, because they are stupid...I really love the idea of a mailbox.  My post office fails to deliver or send my mail at least three times a year. Who knows where things end up, probably in dryer sock hell.

I'd go for a few T shirts as well, huge ones, to fit over my fat comfy body.

Yes I do donate to sites that I use. I'm an old linux folk, and know the importance of donations to keep the servers up...PPS I can't spell worth a crap.

I vote for CafePress.  I think we need pirate tees, how about a TSR must be destroyed t-shirt, I would by that today!

I'd buy an overpriced mug and mousepad.  Maybe a lolcat on the mousepad?

I adore 2X mens tees. Nice and roomy for sleeping in. Mousepads make me a bit nervous. I'm very allergic to neoprene, and many mousepads contain trace amounts of it. I'd rather not have my hand become an achy, red, swollen, burning monstrosity. When buying a new one, I always go for really flat shiny ones and hold them for a minute to make sure I'm not going to have issues. That and with ankle braces.

So, there are people still using mousepads? Since I started using laser mice, I've not found a need for mousepads, the mice generally work better on the desk surface with no mousepad.

I'd be keen on t shirts, though I'd also be happy to donate for no reward, except the continuation of MATY.

The profit margins on those shirts are basically nonexistent when you sell through those services, though. As an alternative, perhaps we could sell officially MATY-themed "In My Day" children's play shrapnel.

I'd go for a Cafepress-type deal or either Paypal or money orders.

/me counts pennies

I use a mousepad with my lasermouse because I find it slides around more easily than on my old varnished wood desk.  I agree that it isn't really necessary for tracking.


I'm with you there.  I'd be happy to donate even without the lure of a t-shirt.

Don't you have to have up-front cash to have T-shirts and the like made to sell?  Is there a source for that cash?  Generally the price for printing is lower the larger your quantity, but without knowing how many you could wind up overstocked and run into a loss.

I don't know about the receiving end of PayPal, so if you have had difficulties (and know that it is likely you will again), I would say forget about it!

Personally, give me a PO box and my check (or M.O.) will be in the mail.  I would not play Sims without the kind of hacks I can only find here.  Like many others, I just want my game to make sense and play well.

With Zazzle and Cafe Press, there is no upfront cost. However, if you spend US$20 on a MATY t-shirt, we don't see all the dough. At Zazzle, a basic t-shirt starts at  $14.95; if we charged $20, we'd only see $5.05 of that. We can, of course, charge more (they let us set the markup), but people would have to know that if they get a t-shirt for, say, a $50 donation, we only see $35 of it. IF that is okay - a high markup - then we'll go forward with planning for that.

It's a great alternative, however, to through into the mix. As the biggest issue we currently have with PayPal is getting the money when we need it to send to Malaysia, multiple payment options is probably going to be the best.

Do I need a new poll? It sounds like people at both PMBD and MATY would be interested in merchandise as an option.


(As a side note: how should we pick the designs we'll use? A contest? If we do that, we should run the contest through early-September and get the 'store' up by the equinox.)

As do I. I have a wireless mouse (Energizer E2 Lithiums last a good 4-5 months, tell your friends) and my mousepad is this flat, shiny surface that reminds me of what most keyboard trays are made of. Flows like a dream. No scratchy bloaty hand, either. At work, I have these clear plastic numbers for my mouspad and wristguard (Addison has no wristguard as my knees serve as such).

That would be fine to me. Donating otherwise just gives you a warm fuzzy. Donating and getting big comfy shirt gives you...well...big comfy shirt.

Has anyone ordered from cafe press lately? I ordered a shirt from them a couple of summers ago and it was thin and did not fit me, because I am a normal sized human and was a D-cup then. I really don't want some token thing I end up giving to my kid.

However, I would totally use a Moar Fight mug.

Also, I have a mousepad, and poor Frida Kahlo's face is turning into a white spot.

I vote for sticking with paypal for getting the bulk of the monies as it's much easier for those of us outside the US to donate. The Cafe Press style t-shirt, mugs, mouse mats sounds like a good additional funding plan but I can't see people increasing their spend to the point where you're going to achieve the same final influx of funds.

If you're going for the multiple payment options (which means PayPal plus P.O. box plus merchandise, if I understand correctly), can't people who don't mind the fees also use Western Union? I don't know how fast / save / not too complicated money orders from Europe are processed, but after the 2006 mess, I don't want to use PayPal, either.

Yep, I would prefer all the donation go to MATY, as I'm not too flush at the moment. I would also like a shop option at some point.

Edit to fix mistake.

Maybe a regular donation drive like before? And a shop to help slowly build finances over the year?

Very good.

Once your customers have kept the item(s) past the return date and your earnings pass the minimum dollar amount to get a check ($25), they cut and mail one.

As  a bonus, you "set it and forget it" once your store is full of merch. I uploaded designs four years ago, never advertise, never log in to Cafe P., and still sell something weekly or so, and get checks frequently.

The "Value" T-shirt is super-flimsy. Other tees are better quality. I've given Cafe P. stuff as Xmas gifts for years and they hold up great, even the baby stuff, except for the cheapest "Value" T. Bonus: Cafe P. now does black / dark tees.

Spreadshirt is similar, is less whiny about copyrights when you are doing a parody design, has pre-set images and stuff, but can get quite pricey.

Awesome.  It's good to hear that you have personal experience with it from the merchant side.  If we get it going, I'll be happy to help with graphics.

I agree it is good to hear from people with direct experiences. And I would certainly shop MATY for xmas gifts.  Keep a look out in that PO box for auntie's Christmas card and check, though!

I wouldn't touch PayPal with someone else's credit card, let alone my own. I would happily contribute rhino if there was a simple, secure and non-usurous method of making a donation.

Wouldn't the simplest option be to open an offshore bank account with an IBAN number so that the account's details can be published for donors to make payment? Example: http://www.griffonbank.com/eng/

Much as I would enjoy owning some MATY merchandise, I draw the line at paying $25 for tee shirt (and let's not forget the shipping cost) where 90% of the markup goes to the host website. If Pescado adds another $10 for the cheeseserver then that makes $35 + shipping to donate a ten spot. It'd be cheaper to change a five pound note into ten greenbacks at my local bureau de change, and FedEx it to a PO box and buy a plain white teeshirt from M&S and print a MATY slogan on it using a handy custom teeshirt kit from any craft store. I'd probably still have enough change for a bottle of Aussie shiraz as well.

Pes doesn't seem too keen on t-shirts either.  He suggested shrapnel, but I think that'd be kind of hard to customize and market.*  He hasn't offered an opinion on mugs, though, which (in addition to being useful and cheaper than the shirts) would make an effective impromptu missile weapon, so I think that would be a good way to go.

*I mean, what would you do with it?  Everybody knows we're all axe murderers around here, not into building dirty bombs.  :p

Anyone tried Goggle Checkout? I'm not sure if it's even suitable in this case, but it's worth a look, I suppose.

ETA: Uhhh... maybe not :P

I'm all for MOAR FIGHT mugs! Also, the Cafe Press as-a-side-fundraiser sounds like a good idea- just keep it up year-round to boost funds. Lorelei's personal experience seems to suggest that this would be a good thing to do. Never log in again- receive monies!

I have stuff at Zazzle and Spreadshirt, too. I have gotten ONE check from Zazzle, ever. Two from SS, ever. CP sends me about one a month. The same (or similar) merch is on all three sites. What I'm getting at, here, is that you will get more "drive-by" / non-MATY donations if you choose CP, because I certainly get more random shoppers buying my crap at CP than elsewhere.

I will note that their mousepads are WAY overpriced.

The biggest downside with CP is that they are RIDICULOUS about copyright infringement, refusing to print original art if it might possibly resemble anyone famous. Artwork featuring famous people has to be EXTREMELY cartoony and not mention them by name, or it gets zapped and can't be sold. THIS, of course, is not a MATY problem.

If you do a general call for designs, recommend that people download the templates for the items you want to sell (if "everything," then make sure people download and design for the right products). I also recommend designing for both light and dark imprintables. For one, white areas are transparent and shirt color shows through all colors you use. For the other, you need to have transparent areas where the shirt color is to be, and white areas stay white.

CP is also easiest to set up. You don't have to pay to have shops. You can have cafepress.com/MATY1, /MATY2, /MATY3, etc. and either use the same design for all items per store address, or mix designs per page. Drawback of free shops: if you design for the pink t-shirt using one pattern and your store is free, you can't design with the pink T and another design IN THAT SHOP. You have to open a new free shop to make the alternate design for a pink T.

Tealdeer: CP will likely earn you more money (CP is where I and other people I know who sell stuff with imprintables make the most bucks, even those of us who don't advertise or set up a store for a class project at school) and returns have been painless (for me) and stuff will hold up (except for the very cheapest Value T) AND CP offers light-on-dark printing. Downside is that some of their stuff has high base costs (like mousepad) and their anal-retentiveness about copyright infringement even when no such infringement or deviation from Fair Use is happening.

As a hint, I sell ringer Ts, black Ts, and stickers most.

This fall, I will be swamped with thesis stuff, but if you catch me before stuff heats up, I will gladly use my Skills Of An Artist to contribute designs. I have offered the same to local Anons, so it won't be stressful to take care of similar projects simultaneously.

I suggest a thread for most desired phrases and items once it is decided (if it is) to go with this as one of the money-raising ideas. As a bonus, it will continue to earn as long as the shop is open, and if the phrases are amusing enough and general enough, non-MATYians will buy stuff as well. Who wouldn't want a MORE AWESOME THAN YOU shirt, a 1337 mug, or a MOAR FIGHT! shirt (with or without a LOLcat or two)? Individual coasters with images of barware and STEAMING HOT CUP OF STFU or EAU DE BRYNNE or BUTTHURTINI or MOLOTOV COCKTAIL or FROZEN TARD TEARS on them might also get you a few drive-by purchasers.

Well I was serious about the offshore bank account. If money is being raised I only give when I am sure that most of what I give by-passes the middle men. Capitalism has its uses, but not in supporting community projects.

A better way of year-round fund raising would be to set up accounts at places like Amazon whereby people desirous of supporting MATY can buy what they need and channel valuable pennies to the fund of cheesiness.

Also the thanks this is great button could lead to a page offering an opportunity to make an SMS payment of, say $2.50. Companies who offer such facilities keep 10-12%, which I do not consider excessive. Indeed I would happily SMS a quid or two every time I downloaded the DC ... or availed myself of the goodness in the Peasantry.

But if you wanna raise $2500 by selling mugs, then please allow me to set up Mirelly's Marvellous Mug 'n' Mamm-O-Grams Corp. Inc. Ltd. Pty :P If there's any profiteering to be done, I'd like a slice of it meself.

I think you're confused about just who profits from a CP store, Mirelly, if you want to sell your own mugs to "profit" from them.

CP buys the imprintable products and mails and deals with customer service for you. The cost of the plain tees is still on a par with plain tees bought in most department stores. Some other items, like mousepads, are admittedly higher. So they absorb the product cost, printing materials and labor costs, and S&H costs for you, and every penny over the base price you mark the item up, you keep. CP, as a business, makes a fair profit from providing a service, and the storeholder makes a fair profit for basically designing an image, sticking it on a webpage, and then doing nothing else but collecting a check if it gets bought.

Your plan sounds like "Mirelly buys a mug, tries to compete with a huge company that can buy in bulk and do its own printing, ships stuff out, handles customer gripes, and earns a few pennies for the unnecessary effort." A joke, perhaps, but it implies that you think CP is ripping you off somehow.

I did "sell imprinted stuff" as a business pre-Internet, and it is a pain in the butt to do solo, and a hassle to deal with mailing and returns. I am thrilled to sell stuff where all I need to do is make a design people presumably want to buy, cash the checks, and then wander off to do more interesting creative projects while the accounting and business-related shit is handled by a team of hundreds and not just me. :P

Am I really off track here?  I don't see how changing the mechanism for getting cash to Pes from paypal to Tshirts is going to solve the actual problem which is sending money from the US to Malaysia.  If the money ends up in the US by whatever means it's collected, you'll hit the same problem trying to transfer it to some random guy in Malaysia.

My suggestion ... talk to Paypal in advance i.e. NOW and ask how you can do it.  Taking the money and then trying to transfer it it is the wrong way round and you can see why it raises crime/terrorism flags.  If the US banking laws are tougher than elsewhere, then maybe you need someone in the UK/europe/Australia/wherever works to own the paypal account that receives the money.

As to paypal fees.........  You pay a onetime fee to convert your account to one that lets you receive payments from credit card.  Once you've done that.... what's the problem?  You could encourage people to use their bank accounts to pay, but I'd rather not put my bank details on paypal.  I'm use my credit card on paypal - better protection for me I reckon.

I might buy a Tshirt, but I can't see me wearing it in public, and someone is stuck making and dispatching the things which is all too much work surely?

Once we have the money in a bank account, it can be wired to Malaysia; this is what we did to pay for Cheezeserver in Decembe 2007. We set up that account in July of last year and got the last of the money PayPal owed us in December, in time for the bill. I figure, if we have multiple options, with money coming in a variety of ways, we won't have a large sum stuck with PayPal.

Why doesn't Pescado just print his own cash?

A real life MATY Trogdor shirt. I would buy it in a heartbeat.

I like the idea of MATY+PMBD merchandise as a side-effort, but I would also like to be able to send direct monies, as well. Once I know I've done my part, merchandise would be good. However, I don't want the price to be so padded that I can't buy but maybe one mug. It would take me back to being a child at the local book fair, surrounded by rich kids buying overpriced books that they'll never read, and me counting out change to buy an eraser  :'(

I appreciate the response. But I do think CP is a rip off. This (http://mugs.cafepress.com/item/dont-meddle-with-cats-large-mug/38683803) is an example of a bit of CP merchandise. Even at the most realistic of exchange rates (which recognises what the currency is actually worth in its local market place), a $16 mug ( £8 in my money) is outrageous. Hell's teeth. The standard (non-international) shipping is more than I would pay for a bog-standard, fired-clay mug. CP describes the mug as "ceramic" so we have no idea if it is high-quality, chip-resistant "stoneware" or the even higher quality "bone-chine" ... let alone porcelain! (and for £8 quid I could 4 plain white porcelain mugs in either my local Woolworth or my local Asda).

Pescado has described the CP "markup" as unattractive (I forget the exact adjective). I don't need to create a CP account to know that CP is reaping the lion's share of the profit on the merch. That's my definition of a rip-off (and a rip-off doesn't have to be criminal or malevolent to be labelled as such ... an inefficient business' high prices are as much worthy of the term as outright fraud). I am grateful that you acknowledged my comments were intended to be taken lightly, but I do not distance myself from their broad sentiment. Running an online retailing business is a serious operation. Companies like Cafe Press cannot afford to give their inestimable hidden benefits away.

As for teeshirts. I've never visited the US, but it is apocryphal in many parts of Europe that the US is fabulous wonderland of cheap clothing. With current exchange rates this applies more so as a friend recently returned from Ca confirmed. In the UK this (http://www.marksandspencer.com/gp/product/B000VPGC9M/sr=1-2/qid=1218406153/ref=sr_1_2/203-8032876-8234304?ie=UTF8&node=&m=A2BO0OYVBKIQJM&keywords=&mnSBrand=core&size=9&rh=n%3A43074030%2Cp_91%3A14%2Cp_10%3AWhite&page=) high quality teeshirt is sold in every major city for a mere £5  (<$10). Do you seriously want to suggest that CPs $20+ teeshirts are economically priced to the advantage of the emptor? As always the fool is soonest parted from his money. I thought MATY had no room for fools.

I ask again. What the fuck is wrong is opening an international bank account?

It couldn't hurt to set up a PO box; less risky than meeting Pescado in the dark alley, anyway. Almost every penny goes to the cause.
Setting up a Cafe Press account couldn't hurt. Who doesn't love receiving a check without having to exert anything more than initial effort? Who isn't imagining their mom in  a MOAR FIGHT t-shirt? But as a primary source of funds? Too much cash diverted into the wrong pocket.

That is in no way indicative of standard t-shirt prices in the US, especially not of novelty tees. For an example, Old Navy is on the mid-to-low end of price for graphic tees, and theirs cost $15. This seems to jive with CafePress, where prices for tees I noticed ranged from $15-$22. Standard.

As for them taking a lot of the "profit" margin - Doi! They are doing the lion's share of the work.

Anyways, I would not send cash or checks physically anywhere. You're just asking for it to get intercepted. So no PO Box por moi.

You realize standard t-shirt prices are ALREADY outrageously gouging, considering that a t-shirt costs less than a buck to make?

This reminds me of something my manager said the other day:

"We sell a large sausage and olive pizza for, what, 19 bucks? Those things cost $3 to make. Tops."

Cafe Press seems like a fun idea, but I don't think it is very sensible for this project. We all want MATY merchandise so much that we aren't thinking of the actual goal.

The goal here is to raise $2500 as quickly and painlessly as possible. Since Paypal does not allow for anonymous accounts it is clearly not the answer. Since Cafe Press requires spending more money than necessary to reach the goal, thereby making the goal less attainable than more so, it does not sound like a good answer either.

I am sure that there must be some way to receive payments via the internet anonymously or even just under a pseudonym, but so far I haven't found it. Unless someone else has already found the definitive anonymous online payment system, I think that the best solution would be to send money orders to a P.O. Box. The tricky part here is deciding what name to put in the Pay To: section. For that matter we could leave that bit blank, but that is a whole new risk that would have to be weighed.

Once the money is gathered and digitalized it should be sendable from any location to Malaysia.



That is my strong opinion. Also I am tired of hearing about Cafe Press when Pescado has already and repeatedly shot the idea down.

Sorry V, but that is a totally US-centric view of how to pay. The cost of getting a US dollar money order in any country is prohibitive ($15+ in the UK) and then you have to add the cost of international postage. Paypal may not be ideal but at least they allow for relatively easy international money transfers and MATY regulars are based all over the world.

Paypal is still looking like the front-runner option, just for convenience of payment.  I think this is important in a fundraising exercise, such as this.  Choosing a difficult method of payment, one with lots of extra steps, or one that costs extra to implement (i.e. money orders with foreign exchange charges) likely translates into loss of potential donors.

That leaves the getting-the-money-from-Paypal issue and the Malaysia-doesn't-like-Paypal issue.  Could MATY be set up as an entity to collect the money.  Unfortunately, the only way I can think right now to get the money to Malaysia would be to have a designated MATY person who would get the money from Paypal and transfer it by money order to Malaysia (if Malaysia really doesn't like Paypal).  Can it be done without having someone be "known"?

Perhaps because he'd be forced to reveal his identity? Then maybe he needs a figuredhead, perhaps bribing a local bum with MATY mugs, and then use his data. :D

I prefer the paypal route to the money order route.  Money orders penalise non-US people as we have to pay the exchange rate and increased postage.

I was happy with paypal last time although I ended up having to request my money back as Bluesoup neglected to tell me whether my payment had been stopped even after I'd asked her to check a number of times.

I agree with what Cwykes said about checking with paypal what we have to do to not get the transfer to Malaysia impounded.  The thing is if the money is being sent to a Malaysian email address that is easily traced to a company registered to provide server services then I can't see where the problem is.  Unless of course we are sending it to someterroristguy@malaysia.com in which case they are probably fairly justified. 

The only other option that I can see is that we pay into a MATY fund set up by the malaysian server itself.  Unless of course they are as dodgy as hell.

Which brings me to my last point, if we do have a designated MATYian to co-ordinate the paying, who will that be.  From the tone of the thread it sounds as though it is going to be Hecubus, is this right?

I didn't say that Pescado has to open it.

Actually, I was thinking that people in different countries could send money orders in their own currency and they can be converted after received by the collector of monies. Then any expense would be absorbed by the receiver of funds who would just take the money order to the local bank to get it converted. Or is that something that cannot be done?

I do agree that it is always better if fundraising is as simple as clicking a few buttons, but it is not going to be easy to find an online payment system that allows for anonymity from either side. For some reason they seem to think that "anonymous" = "doing something illegal"

I will cast my vote for money orders/checks but then I am only in Canada so the exchange isn't too horrid. When you have a box & name to send it to let me know.

Cass :)

This is starting to seem overly complicated.

Can we have a range of options? Because it seems like we need donations for a goal with reasonable rapidity, but over time the Zazzle/CP might make enough to cover a goodly proportion of the costs for the next payment cycle.

I'm in favour of the money order to the PO box, because PayPal sucks donkey balls.

It's hard to find the proof, but there are always claims on the internet that Paypal is/was run by right wing Christians. I hate to think of money being funneled off to any of their interest groups, especially considering MATY's satanic agenda (http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,10262.0.html).

Kind of like all those urban hipster kids shopping at Urban Outfitters while the profits go off to support Rick Santorium and anti-gay legislation. DO YOU NO WUT YOUR LADYFIT JEANS ARE FUNDING, emoboi?

/crazy internet rant

V, Queen of all that is sensible, suggested the over-the-counter prepaid Visa card, apparently readily available in the US. Do the Malaysians take Visa? If so, could we not implement the money orders to the PO box, and then have the recipient purchase one of these cards and make the payment?

I already posted at PMBD but I'll reiterate here.  I prefer PayPal but would do money order.  Last time this came up it was almost unanimous that CP was icky and that no one would touch branded stuff so to see it 180 from that stance is amusing.

I did a quick google search on anonymous online payment system (http://www.google.com/search?q=anonymous+online+payment+system&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) and the first 2 hits might have info to help Hecubus and Pescado figure out how to transfer the large sums of money more easily.

This is starting to sound like "How to finance a revolution".

Not that that is a bad thing.

Look, I'm willing to concede on the whole Paypal thing, but refuse to get lumped in with the right-wing Christians.  Can I be a Christian with a satanic agenda?  I'll vote money-orders if it helps.

All of us outside the US are going to vote paypal.  Money orders cost money and require effort. We don't do them normally.  I'd have to personally go down to my Belgian bank and ask them how wtf is a money order and how do I do it.  Paypal is free and I don't have to leave my PC.

I say again - tell paypal what you want to do and ask them "how do I do it".  Maybe they need to know whose account it is but can make it annonymous to us.  Would that do?  Explain before hand and ask how - looks a lot less dodgy.