More Awesome Than You!

http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?threadID=578780c39336bd8f93c41a9b607b290a&directoryID=211&startRow=1&openItemID=item.211,root.1,item.61,item.104,item.41,item.127,item.23 (http://bbs.thesims2.ea.com/community/bbs/messages.php?threadID=578780c39336bd8f93c41a9b607b290a&directoryID=211&startRow=1&openItemID=item.211,root.1,item.61,item.104,item.41,item.127,item.23)  ::)

How the hell does that asshole keep its job?

Laura

Actually, for a change, he's not the one being an idiot. What he's said is true, for the most part. All the online petitions in the world aren't going to change Company Policy. Neither will threatening anonymous letters.  And if people want the problem fixed, they need to give them usable data. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't mean he's not telling the truth.

I don't believe a damn word that comes out of that asshole's mouth.  Massive Shithead couldn't care less about the paying customers and is only posting what EA wants him to post. 

Which would be how he keeps his job.

This isn't MaxoidSam's fault. It's EA and Sony's fault; and he's right, if people want things to change, bitching on the BBS isn't going to do much. He's saying what they tell him to say and what will cover EA and Sony's asses.

 
It would be more dishonest for him to pretend that threads on the BBS have any hope of changing the company's policy. If you don't believe the numbers he's posted, fine, but his advice about the best way to make your dissatisfaction known makes sense to me.

I notice he's quietly trying to phish for people's personal info, so EAxis can silence them.

Despite what MaxoidSam said the only thing EA is interested in is profit.  Until the secuROM fiasco eats into their profits in a big way it will be here to stay and will no doubt ship with Sims 3.  I doubt the Maxoids have any say in this matter at all. 

I would be very curious to know though just how the Teen stuff-it pack actually did.  Anyone know if its sales were hit by the secuROM issue?

Plus the sales of the next "Lies and Propaganda" ep should also be interesting.

By towing the company line.  You'd do the same, most likely, if you wanted to keep making your rent/mortgage payments.  The decision to add SecuROM was made higher up in the EAxis hierarchy. 

As to Sam's message, too little too late.  I used to visit the BBS on occasion and help out the lost sheep.  After the SM insults, censorship, bannings, and disinformation, I've never returned to the BBS and never will.  The way customers were treated is reprehensible.  So, I refuse to help EAxis by providing free customer support nor will I purchase any more EA products. 

Maybe I'll print this and mail it to the CEO as a Grinch gift.

I find it interesting that even after such a fiasco, the CEO's still don't care enough to investigate themselves, but still keep 'relying' on others to inform them. Surely a PR disaster such as this one deserves a little more attention. I guess they are too (self) important to bother with the 'little' people, such as their paying customers

True, SecuRom is on other game discs. What he fails to mention is that its 7.2 version is giving those game companies the same headaches. Their customers are not too pleased either. Bethesda and Bioware (the part that is not whoring itself to EA) are dropping SecuRom in newer disc releases. Funny how he forgets to mention that.

An interesting thing happens once one's salary reaches a certain level: one can afford not to care anymore.  ::)

MaxoidSam is assuming that bitching on the bbs is all we've been doing there.  It's not.  I for one have written the EA execs., complained to the FTC, the BBB, and my State's Attorney consumer protection.  I am fairly certain at least a dozen others have done likewise.  And I have gotten some results doing these things (except the EA execs. notta), but more people need to contact them. It's going to require more than one complaint to get people to act.  The FTC informed me that they are collecting information about this, but they need enough consumers to complain before they can request a federal investigation.  With the BBB, they told me to contact the FTC, but I already had done so.  EA failed to respond to my BBB complaint and will be getting another "unresolved" mark against them for what that's worth.  I've heard nothing from my State's Attorney General, but according to the FTC they send all their information to the State's Attornies themselves.  Now all that's left to do for me is to keep bitching on the bbs.   People do watch the bbs and look to it for information.  It's about being there to inform people more than believing it will do anything to change EA.  But the fact is, MaxoidSam has been worried sick about all this, and my reading between the lines of his message is telling me he is telling us what he thinks will be more effective action.  Now why would he do that unless he wants us to be effective?  I think he wants SecuROM off the game almost as much as we do.  He just has no say about it.    Oh and btw, bugging the HELL out of them is effective!  ;D

What he says makes sense to me. SecuROM was shipped on, what, hundreds of thousands of copies, he said? And they've received only roughly 150 formal complaints. That's simply not enough to call for a recall or a dump of the program.

I, for one, did not make a complaint because I was able to fix it myself with a registry cleaner and a no-cd patch. I can imagine many, many other people did the same. If a formal complaint is what they want, though, I just may have to do that.

I'm still livid with the fact that they won't throw the Dev Team under the bus for fucking up so badly.  Seriously!  They're paid to to heir jobs.  If they can't do their job (develop a game with most major bugs removed), then they should be sacked and EA should start anew.

If EA were a good company, that would be a major part of their developers' job descriptions. However, EA is not a good company, and their developers' jobs depend on very quickly churning out programs that many people will buy. Not high-quality programs, just programs. So in reality, they are doing their jobs. It's just a crappy reality.

If EA were a good company, they'd be choking those developers as per the Darth Vader school of management: "And you have failed me for the last time."

Frothing and stamping of feet won't change anything. Making it clear to the *retailers* where you stand could change things.

Retailers have very slim profit margins, so if you buy their product and later return it, that will hit them in the wallet. If enough people do this, retailers will refuse to carry that product, and EA will be forced to back down.

Good luck returning opened PC games. I would usually let customers return them when I worked in a game store, but I got in trouble for it every time. Even when it was for store credit.

And a poor excuse was always given for this long standing stupidity. Once, when it was floppy's we were returning, the 'reason' was that malicious data could have been introduced either by accident or on purpose - which always pulled at the limits of my credulity (and believe me I can be damned credulous if not given fair warning to engage cynicism). Now we are simpy offered "It is not store policy". To which my reply is "Not fit for the purpose for which it was intended". I have returned games by this method (admittedly I will usually accept store credit which does tend to grease the wheels) but, really, if the game does not run as intended on a machine that meets or exceeds specifications then either bursting into tears in the middle of the store or threatening them with consumer affairs are both ways to get proper refunds when backed up by the legal requirement for one (at least here in Australia) of the goods not being all that they were purported to be. I know it's embarrassing, but it's not the returner that should be embarassed. It's the people trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities that should be cringing.

The people trying to wriggle out of their responsibilities are never the ones you're facing, though. It's the employee who's stuck in the middle, between an irate customer now and an irate boss later. People who work in customer service get really sick of being blamed for what the company does; it's not their fault, and they have less ability to change company policy than a customer does. So complaining to the peon will do you no good at all -- better to call customer service directly, because companies do not listen to the people who work in their stores and take most of the flak for their decisions.

All you'll accomplish by throwing a shitfit in a store is to ruin someone's day. You might get your way, but I was always far less inclined to give irate or otherwise obnoxious customers what they wanted than people who were reasonable and civil, and who generally treated me like I was a human being and not a robot slave sent to thwart their whims. I didn't want the tantrum-throwers to be happy with what they got, I wanted them to stay away. Everyone I've worked with in retail has felt the same. We don't like being treated like crap any more than customers do.

The best thing to do is go to the store during a weekday, when the manager is most probably there. Managers of chains will also get in trouble for letting customers return games, but they have more clout and will be more willing to take the hit.

Don't open the box. ARRRRRRR!

Did MaxoidSam ever get back to any of the people who volunteered to be beta testers?

The ones I talked to haven't heard from EAxis, and to be frank, I would've been very surprised if they had.

I'm guessing the 'no return if opened' is because people can install the game and play it for free - and if it needs the cd, they can run it with a no Cd crack. So once again the honest customer gets treated as a potential thief. It's not as if getting a game for free by other means is a big problem now, is it?

I also worked in retail and I know exactly what you mean, Neriana. I only worked there part time to pay the bills, but I've seen some crappy shit happening to the poor sales-floor people. As if they could change company policy on a whim. Yah. Right. Some people could do with a reality check. If they had that kind of power, they wouldn't be on the sales-floor getting just above minimum wage now, would they?

no, a real plunge in sale for SP and EP with secuROM is still the most effective way to speak out.

Most people won't bother to file a complaint about secuROM coz they can simply move on to something else without it.  They may not even bother to whine for $30 and just take it a well-learnt lesson about a company.

I am not surprised to hear there has been no further contact wrt this.  I jumped through all the same hoops with Cooper Buckingham right near the beginning of the Sims 2 series - him asking for names of experienced modders, my name being among those provided, him letting me know about this new move to work with some reps from the community, and telling me he would soon provide further details and .... wait for it ... still waiting? ... THE END!

As an ex-retail worker (having to deal with entertainment gizmos, games included) I agree with every word you said, neriana.

The other thing you'll accomplish by throwing a shitfit, is having people laugh at you when you leave, for being an idiot, basically*. Not just from employees, but other people in the store. A number of times after dealing with a shithead, another customer waiting in line has commiserated about what an idiot the person in front was. Those encounters always made me feel a bit better  :D

* And depending on how badly you act you can evn earn yourself a bad reputation in the store, heh.

He PM'd us with his email address, to be put on a list. *shrug* We'll see what happens after New Year's when they should be starting to test.

It was nothing more than a cheap propaganda stunt, no doubt an attempt to subvert the peasantry in this rather anti-Maxis area. It is utter nonsense.

The problem I have with this is, if this is how it's going to be, how can I give the Sims 2 games to my neices for Christmas and birthdays?  Should I give them a no-cd crack to go with it?  :-\

Why would you GIVE someone that? They can get it themselves! Just give them the money if you feel compelled to give things to people. It's less annoying.

You know the old saying: "If you give a man a fish..."

Why not teach them how to torrent?

I thought about making a Bittorrent hack for The Sims.  If your Sim has the cheap PC, he could choose the "Download SimComet 0.57" action, and then he could download all the other games (Sims Bustin' Out, that skiing game, whatever the others are...) for free.  It wouldn't just be a fun mod; it would also be a subversive educational tool.


What Neriana said, in spades.  I fully appreciate the therapeutic effects of screaming at innocent third parties, but it's much more therapeutic to scream at guilty parties.  Or to flip them the bird in other ways.

It seems to me that

1. If the purpose of their new copy-protection is to protect their software from copying...  And
2.  It ruins your game... And
3.  It doesn't even really protect the game from being copied...

That the solution is to stop giving EA money for the game. 

Now, I'm not recommending that.  No way, no sir.  That would be immoral.  Or it would be acting out in an immature manner just to punish a soulless corporation.  Such vengeance is not the province of mere mortals, but more properly belongs to God or Karma.  Perhaps EA execs will be reincarnated as outhouse corncorbs in their next life.  It's their karmic burden, and we should not worry our pretty little heads with the matter.

OMG that's given me the laugh of my week  :D

yeah, at least he's being honest in saying "that isn't working, if you really want your point across do it the intelligent way <here>".

Realistically, the sheer volume of public stupidity is such that the only way to change the policy of large, faceless corporations with no individual accountability is to give them individual accountability. With rocket launchers.

This gives me some laughters today...  Thanks... :)
That's a great idea, in spades.

While I completely sympathise with what you are saying about the shittiness of working in a store and being put on the spot when this sort of thing happens, I disagree about the issue of making a scene in a shop.  I don't think it makes the customer look stupid when they have a legitmate reason to complain.  I think it is right that people complain - it puts other customers off and any shop manager worth his/her salt should want to avoid it.  I know I have walked out of shops when I've seen a complaint being badly handled.

I don't know about the States, but here in the UK not providing a refund for goods that are defective is against the law.  That particular law was framed for precisely the reason that shops routinely had 'policies' which meant they wouldn't 'allow' refunds for defective goods.  In the UK, this is simply now not allowed and the protection of the consumer was placed highest up the pecking order in a series of legislative acts starting with the 1974 Consumer Protection Act (which kinda does what it says on the can).  I have noticed recently, I have to say, that some retailers are trying to put back policies where they don't refund for goods which are defective and sometimes dissatisfied customers do have to get stroppy in the shop to get what is, rightfully, their refund.  Often shop assistants will go on saying the customer can't have a refund because 'it's not their policy to issue them' but when a customer really gets stroppy and the shop manager is called, s/he usually backs down immediately.  This is because he or she is well aware, where the assistant might not be, that legally they don't have a leg to stand on.  They usually make some comment like 'in this special case, we'll refund your money' but it's a face-saving device.

If you are working in retail and paid a low wage, you shouldn't have to face the type of situation where you have to face a really irate customer - without support at least - that's really your Boss's job and it's a shame when bosses don't do their jobs properly.  But I'd defend the right of people to go to the place where they bought the goods and make a complaint, very publically if need be, and I think it's right that they are entitled to expect a refund.

Defrauding a customer of their rightful refund is very much frowned upon here, and AFAIK can land that particular store owner with lots of trouble from several agencies, non-profit organizations, the AG's office (depending on the laws in your state), not to mention consumer watchdog journalists who typically do at least one spot per week on TV. If you encounter a store that stonewalls your requests for refunds, you really should politely leave and seek support from one of these many groups.

It's your hard-earned money. You should get your money's worth out of it.

There is a big difference between making a complaint and making a scene.  Getting overly loud, using profanity, or getting physical are not acceptable ways of voicing a complaint, and it does make the customer look like an idiot, like this http://www.sendspace.com/file/fb5374 (http://www.sendspace.com/file/fb5374).

Such as an experience I recently had while working at gamestop. Two groups come in who had both purchased xboxes and games within the past week. They apparently live together. One man and one of the woman was very verbally abusive to myself and another employee because it was the second time they'd come back with xboxs that didn't work. ...dumb fucks had cds that were scratched to hell and back but were threatening myself and the other employee with physical violence for selling them yet another "broken" xbox and they wanted their money back. Which neither of us could do. Would not listen to our chorus of coming back when the manager was there so I ended up testing both of their consoles in the store and pulled out several games at random to test. They worked just fine. Sometimes the customer is an idiot. Other times though it is the company, I grit my teeth everytime someone brings in a brand new game or a system to trade in, we give about 1/3 of what we sell it for, that's good business but we are still fleecing them on a lot of things. I think we give like 20 bucks for an xbox, they could sell it in the newspaper for more, nearly 100$ less then the sell price when it's a wii. I always try to be a good sells clerk, I warn against invasive piracy protection, graphics card problems with certain games, quality of the game play in general and I'm always sure to sell the best copy of whatever used game they are buying or showing them the disk if it's a little shitty looking to make sure that they really want to pay for that and yet, I still get yelled at and complained to at least 3x a week about company policy that I have nothing to do with and can not change.

I understand some customers can be a pib and big idiots. I also understnad that it's 'corporate policy' to remove power from the clreks and tell the clerks they can do nothing for the unhappy customer. This is the way they control the returns. It is to their advantage to have it this way. it is also WRONG.

If I'm the unhappy customer and I have access to the clerk only, they are gonna hear how unhappy I am, regardless. If they don't listen, I'm gonna say it again and again getting louder and louder as I go until they DO listen. If they get abusive with me, say something completely senseless, insulting or whatewver, I'm gonna cuss.

It does no good?? My ass! If I go away nice and complacent, the way you clerks want me to act, the corp. wins. SO you clerks lose if I throw a fit? So what? it's your job. ANd if only the manager can help us then that manager needs to be onsite all the time any customers are.

You don't want to be hassled?? I didn't want to spend my hard earned cash on crap either--we're in the same boat. YOU, the clerk, work for the corp. It's YOUR responsiblity to report exactly how unhappy the customer is with the shitty product and the shitty return policies. If I'm nice and complacent you forget me quick and say nothing. A clerk, when no manager is around, is my only 'voice' back at the dirty crooked corporations. It shouldn't be on me to keep up with a managers schedule.

Federal consumer law says I have the right to return ANYTHING as long as it hasn't been abused and I have my receipt. The corps HATE us, the customers,to know this.

You might be nicer to the next loud mouth and make sure you report the complaint backa t the manager as often as it takes to make a dent in the bad policies..You clerk-whiners need to get a clue and see that us loud mouths are protecting your rights here too.

Go back and complain to a manager, you know, someone who can actually do something for you. Clerks can't do a damn thing, the manager can take back things we can't, mark down things we can't and in general do things we can't. All the cursing, yelling and such like is doing nothing for you and you would be asked or it would be demanded that you leave. I don't want people to just accept the answer and go away, I want them to accept that I have no power to help them and come back when there will be someone there who can. Actually, the clerk does not report in anyway to the corp, the manager has weekly to monthly meetings however. Clerks have a set of instructions that they have to follow and for the rest they just do their best. Have a problem with the policy or an issue, take it up with someone who actually has an iota of power to change it, not the part time help that is easy to replace and often is.

We can't take back pc games for any reason other then the disk is borked, then you are just getting a new copy. It's already been covered why, people install and they don't need the disk anymore. I've encouraged people to buy things at wal-mart if they were unsure because of walmarts more relaxed return policy. I think we already covered somewhere about piracy being a good consumer choice. Even I working at the game store will pirate a game before I buy it. Gamestop does have a good policy on used games though, bring it back for any reason within 7 days, no questions asked. 30 days on a system, have a problem, bring it back. You drop the damn thing or try to mod it, no we can't take it back, you move your xbox360 with a game inside and destroy your newly bought game, no we can't replace it. My manager can give the okay to replace said copy, but the peon certainly cannot.

On another note, I have never had a manager ask me how the previous day went nor give me the time of day when trying to report on a situation the day before. It's the manager one way or the other that you have to talk to to get anything done, including sending the message that you want to send.

In all honesty, I will go far out of my way to help a pleasant customer who has given me no reason to dislike them. Doing my best to look for what they want, take care of what they want, find some other solution or leave a message for my manager that someone is coming in from the day before because of something we could not help them with at the time. With a nasty customer I will do no such thing. I will do my best to placate them enough or tell them straight out to leave but I'm certainly not going to go out of my way for someone who can not treat me as a human being that only works there with no power. I'm only looking forward to seeing them out the door and to hopefully forget about the whole thing.

It's always wonderfully obvious when someone hasn't worked as a store clerk.

In what way does it hurt the corporation when you treat a clerk like crap? Do you honestly think they CARE? Clerks make no dent in bad policies. Even managers aren't listened to. All you're doing when you're making a scene is ruining someone's day and making them feel like garbage. Oh, and making yourself look like a giant idiot. Good on you.

Call customer service, and if you don't like a store, don't go there. That's the only way things are going to change. Behaving like a spoiled brat and throwing a temper tantrum will get you less than nothing.

By the way, we were allowed and even encouraged to throw irate customers out of the store. It's not a clerk's job to deal with violent people, and if someone yelled, the response was to say, "I will call the police if you do not leave now." Our response to anyone who cursed at us was "leave the store and don't come back, we don't want your business". That was store policy. A clerk's safety is more important than your wallet.

I would like to point out that companies based in countries with mandatory rocket launcher ownership also have the highest customer service ratings in the world. What does this tell us?

I'm curious: Which Federal Law states this?

The only time that I've ever worked in retail was for my college book store (I got a great discount on my books so I did it for two weeks at the beginning of each term). I never had to deal with irate customers there, probably because at such a small college everyone knows each other which makes people a bit more compassionate toward the staff. I have, however, worked extensively in food service. One time I was waiting on a couple and the man got really mad because we no longer sold onion rings. I told him that I LOVE onion rings and that I was equally disappointed to see them removed from the menu, but that it was a corporate decision and I had no say whatsoever. He didn't like this response and apparently felt that if he complained to me that I would tell someone who could do something about it. I gave him a card with the contact info for the regional manager and several other higher ups who would have the authority to change the onion ring thing, and I got my manager (who also had no influence over corporate decisions, but he gets paid a lot more than me so he gets to listen to people complain). My manager told the man that he would tell the higher ups, but that the man should also contact them since a personal customer complaint would have more of an impact. The man continued to freak out, yell, and generally make a scene for awhile before he finally left.

The only thing that his poor behavior accomplished was to influence my manager and me to tell the rest of the staff about it. We all enjoyed a good laugh at expense. In a corporate environment the people at an individual store usually have no power whatsoever. The only way to change basically anything about an individual store is to deal with the people who make the actual decisions. For example, at every restaurant that I've worked at even the music is specifically selected by the corporation. You couldn't even get the manager to change something as simple as that without corporate intervention. How can you expect that being rude to a store clerk will make her decide that you are such a special snowflake that she should go against corporate policy just for you?

I'm telling you, the answer to this is mandatory rocket launcher ownership.

No, it's not the store clerk's job to be the person having shit thrown at. That's what managers are paid for.

Have a problem that the manager is not there? Don't take that out on the store clerk, they don't know what the Hell the manager's schedule is and why would it be their fault if the manager isn't there anyway? Not sure how other stores work, but at mine, my manager worked for ten days, and then had four off. So what now, managers aren't allowed to go home or have lunch breaks? Reminds me of the time I worked on a supermarket checkout and was abused for closing my register. So sorry that I'm having lunch now, or God forbid GOING HOME after spending the last ten hours here.

Half the time, I don't think managers know their own schedules either. But again, have a problem with that? COMPLAIN TO CORPORATE or try calling the store and leave your name and number for someone to call you back, or fill in a complaints form.

The person on the desk has the least rights when it comes to company change. What makes you even think, one little bit, that yelling at them is going to make them say "oh sorry, let me call Mr Big CEO and we'll get that fixed straight away"?  :D

Word to that.

That's ridiculous, a sign of a bad manager, and most likely incredibly common. A manager should always be up on what's going on in their store/department.

Anyways, lack of power for the peons is not exclusive to retail. Heh, I'm kind of in the middle of the totem pole now in an educational instutition, and I have the same issues. Especially the irate, self-entitled jerk-offs who have unreasonable requests. Usually the ones who are reasonable I can work with, even if it involves doing something that I technically don't have the authority to do. But then I've always kind of pushed the envelope there...even when I worked in retail. A smart manager lets you bend the rules for customer satisfaction, especially if you have high sales numbers.

Managers typically get a salary and work about 80 hours a week in my experience, so I wouldn't think that's a bad sign. A bad sign would be if the employees suddenly get unexpected bonuses or "broken" merchandise mysteriously disappears or something like that.

Definitely not limited to retail.  I worked for Centrelink (the Australian government organisation that administers welfare payments) for 10 years.  Every decision we made had to be in accord with the legislation.  Nobody within the organisation - not even the most senior manager in our head office in Canberra - had the ability to change the legislation we were required to follow.

In Centrelink the staff don't just get verbal abuse.  We also had things thrown at us, like chairs and computer monitors.  As if throwing a computer monitor at a low level staff member in a regional office in a quiet town will make the politicians all get together in Canberra and change the legislation.

Having spent time on both sides of the Centrelink counter, I can fully understand why some of our customers were frustrated.  People see the customer service officer or the store clerk as being the organisation that they work for, or in my case, the legislation we were required to follow.  They are frustrated with the faceless organisation or the legislation and since it's difficult to take out one's frustrations on a faceless organisation or legislation, they take it out on the person attempting to explain what's going on.

I'm telling you, the answer is mandatory rocket launcher ownership.

Sheesh.

No, my job as a cashier is *not* to take shit from you.  It's to sell you stuff.  It's to return your stuff, assuming it follows policy.  Anything else gets a manager, and they have to deal with it.  If you're abusive enough, i'll call the emergency call, and have you thrown out of the store.  I don't get to make decisions about stock, and I don't care sufficiently about you to break the rules, where I could lose my job for it.

Cashiers are trained on dealing with angry customers, and can also invoke the Supreme Right To Refuse Service.  I hope we never lose this!

With my consumer hat on, though, i can't see why anyone buys the games from actual shops, when they're barely at beta-test status.  But I wouldn't bother to take it out on someone who can't do a thing.  I'd also suggest writing an email to corporate (of the shop)- that does way more than a screaming rant.  Assuming you don't lie, and exaggerate the problem, of course.

The only messages I have found that corporate ever pays attention to come attached to rockets. Again, this is why countries with mandatory rocket launcher ownership don't have customer service issues. Like the definition of "corporation" goes, "an ingenious device for generating individual profit without individual responsibility". In countries with mandatory rocket launcher ownership, this sense of responsibility can be provided by an angry mob armed with rocket launchers at the gate. Lobby your local politician for MANDATORY ROCKET LAUNCHER OWNERSHIP today...preferrably with a rocket launcher, because that's all they ever listen to.

So where can I get me one of them thar rocket launcher thangamabobs? I've decided you just might be right, if we launch enough of em at stupid, belligerent customers, we won't have a customer service problem here anymore either. ;)

Oh ye of little minds, those that think in paper sacks....lol. Exactly the reaction I expected from clerkwhiners.

'You obviously never worked as a clerk...' blah blah. Wrong. I worked through college selling various items, became a full time droogie (manager.)  And this is where I learned about the comsumer laws. (and I worked with the public all my life--even as liaison with the government.)

You wanna know what the name of the law is? YOU go hunt it up. I know it's there, don't give a rat's ass if you want to be ignorant and remain stupid/believe me or not....

How does my throwing a fit at a clerk hurt the corp? THINK. If I take the clerk's I can't help you quietly and go on my way: THAT helps the corp. If I scream and throw a fit THAT disrupts the workday, it makes the other customers present take heed of the state of the product, the return policies of the store or simply uneasy. All good for the irrate customer. Just because the customer behind me doesn't say "I think that person was right and you should do more to help them" or something along those lines doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. There are people that side with the irrate customer at least one for one for every one that is agreeing with/kissing the clerks ass for some reason.

It is NOT my job to track when the manager is in or out. I am not going to spend my gas and my time waiting for the manager to see me. (I also am not going to spend any more of my money at a store with stupid unhelpful policies/clerks/managers.) I also know that many many times the manager has simply said "I'm going in the office/leave me alone for a while/tell whoever wants me I'm out." If it's the store policy that only a manager can help with returns, then a manager should be onsite and available ALWAYS. That's what assistant managers were made for.

So you little minded clerkwhiners get a look at the reality of the situation, not just how it affects YOUR day (and screw the customer and their day). Screw you--it's your job. Don't like it? Find a new job.

I also stated once already, second and last time here: I do not go in yelling and insulting. I do not cuss etc. I start my 'act', because that is what it is and it does work, when I am treated badly, condensendingly, insultingly, as if I were stupid, told over and over again about the 'policy.' Anyway, most of the time, repeating the consumer laws alone brings the manager out of hiding and tada: problem solved. But if I am driven to a scream, then I scream.

I'm with JM. A rocket launcher or flame thrower would straighten a clerk-whiner/stupid store polic/greedy corp right out.

lol, if that can normally work well in most cases, customers wouldn't have to be forced to blacklist the shop or store.
You know, there're too many junk mails in a given email account, and a CCS person can just "happen" not to check "junk mails", so it wasn't CCS person's fault not to have received your honest and polite email.

So, good lucks... :)

I also recommend the use of rocket launchers, so they can be used against people like MutantBunny.

I used to deal with people like Mutant Bunny for a living. It was my desk that the whiners, the folk who swore no one handled the complaint correctly, the folk threatening legal action , these were my bread and butter.

I enjoyed first explaining in no uncertain terms that the contract states thus,you signed that contract. (ISP) I have gone over your case and either..

Yes your complaint has some merit, let me try this fix.
No, your complaint has no merit, this is a fault of an entity that is out of our hands. (usually the telco) No screaming at them will not aid you and often will hurt you. My job "sir/ma'm" is to speak to that entity on your behalf. The legal contract does not allow me to have you talk to them directly. I do apologize ..yadda

The minute the word legal action is mentioned we were told to hang up. I usually gave a warning. "If you threaten legal action the only response I have is to direct you to our legal department. At that point it is no longer a matter of getting it fixed but a court issue and will be handled by lawyers accordingly. (Boy did they hush up)

My father loves to pull the "this is my problem , give me an answer or I get irate" game. This is the same man who if he yells at me for how I fix his computer I walk out.

I don't care what the "corp" did to piss you off. I am sure some other "corp" did it to me as well. Even , and often in the process of helping the very screaming customer that is so upset at me.
Making someone else's day hell just to feel like you have done something gets you no where. You talk to me civil, and I will give you straight facts (often to the consternation of the "quality listeners" on my calls). If you do not like the facts you are free to take your money and leave. (Though often that entailed a 100 dollar early termination fee)

My method when I get screwed by a corporation. I make friendly with whatever rep I am able to net. I ask them precise questions and give them an understanding that I am looking for answers. If they can provide me with the next step in the chain fine. If they balk I wait.
Screaming makes one look like a tard.

Mgt/clerkwhiner thank you very much.



So...when you were a mgt/clerkwhiner just how many corporate policies did you effectively change because some irate customer made you his/her target for the day? How about as a customer, have you seen any actual changes in policy that you think you can attribute to masses of people having meltdowns in a store?

Sorry, when I witness a scene like you are talking about I might step back and have second thoughts about the store if I see that the employees are behaving badly, or seem to be poorly trained, but how does watching a customer behave like an asshole reflect badly on the store? All that does, is make me think that said customer has the maturity and communication skills of a two year old.

Indeed, then I wouldn't have to bother with calling the cops until after the damage is done. I don't know about ya'll but I didn't really get any training, my manager just threw me out of the floor with some basic instructions, the same with the register. I was in no way trained to deal with customers, I had basic policy covered with a booklet. We can call the manager if he's not there if an extreme situation comes up but the peons, meaning the clerks other then sub-managers don't have the number. The manager is th only one who can access most of the options in the damn computer, the rest of it is automatic for him and us. He just assumed that I was intelligent enough to not screw up, which was fine with me, it however has not worked with some of the other part-time help that we have. Gamestop part time are in no way trained for too much of anything, atleast not in the areas that I know. If you throw a fit at me, I will throw your ass out, if you are civil and act like and adult and not a spoiled brat I will do the best I can for you. Here is the thing that people seem to be missing, it's only the damn manager who can make these type of decisions and even he can't sometimes. If the situation comes up that we can't handle then we will tell you when he will be back, when you could call when he's there or we could call him if we even have the number, he will either yay or nay it then we can tell you that he will take care of you tomorrow. Repeating customer laws at me at my job is going to do nothing but have me tell you when the manager would be back or give you a way to contact a head office.
Clerks can take in all returns other then opened computer games except when there is something wrong with the disk or opened new games except when there is something wrong with the little clasp inside so that the game didn't stay in place.
Assistant managers can make a few exceptions, like if the receipt is a  little past the alloted return date but if this is the third time your console doesn't work then I still can't give you a full refund, we can get you a new system but no you can't just say "fuck it, give me my money back."
I don't care how much you freakin yell at me, If I say we can't then we can't. Yes policy is repeated because we can't do what ever it is and doing so looses me my job, but no-one cares about that. You don't like it? Shop somewhere else.

".... I make friendly with whatever rep I am able to net. I ask them precise questions and give them an understanding that I am looking for answers. If they can provide me with the next step in the chain fine.... "

LOL!  Who says I don't do that too? Do I need to say it yet again?? Well, I won't.

Hey, you're the one who made the claim that there was a Federal Law that allows return of any non-abused purchased item with receipt. Burden of proof's on you. If there is one, I'd like to know about it. Has any employee or manager  you've pulled this on asked you  which law you were referring to?

I do find it a bit odd that the State of Michigan's District Attorney's Office (http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_17343_18163-44718--,00.html) seems to disagree with you on this point, however.

Edit: TinyURL link to the same page: http://tinyurl.com/22cujb
Edit^2:  Added "non-absused" caveat.

You may want to try again, that link is not working at all for me.

Sorry, back on topic:
It doesn't bother me what MaxSam says these days.  I made my decision to never buy Sims products until SecuRom is taken off, and I'm sticking with it.  TSS was the first pack I have fully pirated with no intention of buying later.  I hope a lot more people are sticking to their word about pirating only. 

WHAT WORKS:

Here it is.  You are getting advice from The Master.  When my family has problems like this, they come to me, because I have a fucking black belt in the art of Clerk-Jitsu.

The key word is PERSISTENCE.  That's it.  The more time you talk on the phone to them, the more employees, low level or high, that you tie up in explanations, the more annoying you are without crossing the line into being rude or abusive, that is money from their bottom line.  And if you play the game nicely and politely, you can do it for YEARS. 

The question is, is it worth it to you to invest your time in a crusade?  Because if your time is too valuable, you probably lose.  If, however, you are so devoted to your cause that you will cheerfully cast away countless hours of your free time calling and visiting a store, there is a HIGH likelihood that at some point somebody at the store will say, "Aw, fuck it, just give him what he wants.  We have work to do.  Jesus."

This is why overt abusiveness, rudeness, legal threats, are all counter-productive.  They give the company an excuse to just cut you off from the complaint process.  From the point of view of a large corporation (and this will vary from corp to corp (that Canberra government office being a good example), their complaint policy is designed to say no until you just give up and go away, angry or happy, whatever.  The prospect that you JUST MIGHT have more time to play the game than they do throws a monkey wrench into this strategy.  That is why you must exude confidence and cheerfulness at each twist and turn, as if you're going to enjoy fucking with them.

The idea of going to the manager is a very good one, but it's only part of the process.  Each time you call, if you can get a lower level employee and drag him through the whole complaint process from beginning to end, before being shunted back to a manager (hopefully one who hasn't hung up on you before), you have cost them money.  An hourly worker (how much do clerks get these days?) talking on the phone to the same customer, repeatedly, about the same problem is an avoidable expense.

At some point, you will exhaust their patience and they will become abusive to you.  Hooray!  Be slightly shocked and offended.  Make sure that everybody knows that you know their name and job title.  Collect this information politely, early in every discussion, so it doesn't sound legally threatening.  They will remember this.  You are now armed to go to a higher up at the corporate level with not just a complaint about some lousy cheap shit-ass product.  You can now ask why you were hung up on or yelled at by the employees at the Lakewood Mall franchise when you were only trying to return a defective product.  Mention the name of the manager.  DO NOT get angry or openly seek vengeance.  Sound bewildered but professional. 

You are ready to play the same game at corporate level.  And, oh yeah, don't give up with the lower level employees, too.  Call them up to see if they have spoken to Mr. Big Doohickey at corporate about the discussion you had with him about the product. 

Eventually you will wear out the patience of Mr. Big Doohickey at corporate.  That's fine.  He has a boss, too.  You didn't try to hasten the process by going straight to his boss, did you?  No?  Good.  This is slow torture.  No water-boarding here.  Just thousands of paper cuts.

Again, at some point, Mr. Big Doohickey refers you to Mr. Bigger Whatzit.  This is a rather intimidating prospect for him, because now he's wasting his boss's time on a shitty $29.99 CD.  Hopefully, Mr. Bigger has more important things to do.  At this level, being rude is extremely counterproductive.  Waste this man's time.  Give this man the longest fucking possible explanation of your problem that you can muster.  Take your time.  Get confused and start over.  Put him on hold for a minute to take a call.  If you can do this from work, perhaps your hold system will play Muzak for him.  Stranger's in the Night, I hope.  Tell him you'll get back to him to finish your story, then do the same thing over again.

But before you get back to him, go back to square one and call the other low level employees, clerks, franchise managers, and tell them the progress of your adventure, that you have actually talked to Mr. Bigger and that he wants your problem resolved, and ask them if they have heard from him yet.  If they have not, tell them that it is imperative that they contact Mr. Bigger at once to find out how your problem is being resolved.

If worse comes to worse, and you get blown off by people too big to get past, just wait a few weeks and then start all over again, as if you have amnesia and can't remember what went wrong the first time.

There are more things you can do to fuck with their minds.  I mentioned the putting them on hold thing.  Another one is taking names and job titles.  Be very polite when doing that.  If they ask you why you want that, say it's because you may need to call them back and don't want to have to waste another employee's time starting all over again.  After they tell you their name and title, pause for a second and type it on a keyboard so that they can faintly hear a quiet clickety-clack in the background.  The implicit suggestion is that you are logging everything for some purpose, possibly not a benign one.

Also, when speaking to management people, when they start to tell you about their customer policy, ask them to fax a copy to you.  Ask them to explain it to you, not as if you are just one customer with a complaint, but as if you might have an agenda beyond just getting your refund.  Perhaps you are a journalist, or an attorney, or somebody from corp. testing them.  Who knows?  If they ask you what your job is, tell them that you are "a private consultant."  Remember: POLITE, CHEERFUL. 

Okay, so you read all this and you said, shit, I can't do that!  It would drive me nuts before it drives them nuts!  Well, tough shit.  I'm telling you what works.  If you don't have the brass balls, well, just eat your defective product.  This isn't for wimps.  This is for borderline psychopaths who enjoy fucking with people.  I'm laughing my ass off writing this.  I wish I had some corporation to fuck with right now. 

I do this regularly with Congressmen.  It's not good enough to just call your congressman.  You need to call everybody who works for him, everybody in his caucus.  You need to show up at his office when he's there and act as if you already had an appointment.  You want to do everything you can short of getting a restraining order filed against you.

Doc Doofus, that's hilarious! Believe me, at my store you would have succeeded much more quickly, as soon as you got to me, if I with my lowly assistant managerish power could have helped you. Whenever anyone was polite and reasonable, I would do what I could. Most people really are polite and reasonable, so it mostly works out. Then there are people who are spoiled and rude -- no matter what these people think, clerks can't produce games out of thin air, are not expected to have played every game in the store, do not feel nothing when one customer threatens to kill another over a place in line, are not responsible for bugs in a game, are not responsible for company policy, and are paid to help customers and sell product, not to be slaves.

Hey, Pescado.  How's it feel on the wall there?  Yanno, the wall...as in wallflower...where no one pays attention.  Seriously, how many times did you have to post that?  ROFFFFLY.    :-*

And MutantBunny, I'll bet you were one of those bitchy people shopping on Black Friday in the store where I work.  You know the kind of bitchy people I mean?  Those that think they're the only people that are important on the face of the earth.  Come on, doesn't that have a familiar feel to it?  Admit it.  I know you wanna. 

Sheesh.  Everyone should work retail for one holiday season.  I think there'd be a lot of nicer shoppers in the world after that.

Same with me. I was given two hours, tops, with register training, and that was just the basic sales stuff. I was then chucked out onto the floor after a tour and pretty much left to figure things out on my own. That bit made me laugh though, because there were two touch screen do-it-yourself photo printing machines and customers were always "I don't know how to uuuuuuuuuse it, it's soooooooo hard" despite the fact there's a voice over prompt that explains what to do as you go through it. The very first time I used it, was when helping a customer on my first day of the job and I managed to help them without knowing what I was doing, by reading the instructions on screen and listening to the voice prompt.  ::)

Apparently because you work in a department store you're not only supposed to know about your own deparment, but know about other departments too. I was employed, as was everyone else, to work in a particular deparment (mine being entertainment). Many times I had people come up to me (while I was woking in my department, either being behind the counter, or putting things away) asking me to help them in gardening or with chemicals for outdoors toilets. I hadn't even heard of such thing as chemicals for outdoor toilets, let alone know anything about them! Telling these people that I can call someone from the appopriate department to come and help them wasn't good enough though, one lady telling me I need to "go home and get an education". Uh, why? Because I don't know anything about a department that I don't work in? Riiiiiiiight. They bitch the employee isn't trained with what they want, but then bitch when the employee offers to find someone who CAN help them *head desk* And the problem with training employees is finding time to do it. I was the only person working in my department, and if I was off the floor getting trained, then someone else would have to be pulled from another department to cover me while I'm gone, and when you live in a town where all businesses are short staffed (most people go and work for labouring jobs, earning a couple thousand a week, but someone has to do the little jobs, or there'll be no stores to shop in), there aren't enough people to go around as is, let alone trying to find people to cover another's shift. I was just given some  book that had a list of products and some basic info in it, which of course doesn't help when the customer wants to know more fiddly things about a TV or whatever and my manger never knew if I called and asked him either, and he'd tell me to "look in the book". This book was also outdated and didn't have a lot of things in it, either. Lack of knowledge isn't the empoloyees fault - it's the corp's and managements faults for not offering decent training.

The one thing I always hated was people who brought their kids and then paid no attention to them whatsoever. They were left running wild, and then the employees were actually expected to produce the kid post-haste after they were done shopping. Of course, the kids were in 7th heaven and proceeded to tear the store apart.

I only worked retail part-time in the evenings after school to pay the bills, but boy, that was quite exhausting.

Enjoyed your wee dissertation on fucking the corporate mind, Doc Doofus. A friend of mine took a similar tack when she started a letter writing campaign with her local council. Given that the council numbered their letters to her, she also numbered her letters to them, the first one was 000000001.

I second that, but would like to add that everyone should work an office job, the kind where you type things and answer the phones. Two weeks should be enough.

My college jobs were retail/data capture/receptionist/theatre usher/you name it. As a result, I tend to be fairly tolerant of service staff everywhere, because I know what they are supposed to be doing I guess. (The only exception to this rule is the Teenage Zombie Sales Staff. I am not tolerant of them, as they make no effort.)

Any idea how rude people get to the person who answers the phone: "Why is Mr X on his lunch break? Blah blah why isn't he available ALL THE TIME to talk to me?" Srsly.

Also, as I am an attorney at a small law firm,  I sometimes answer the phone at work after hours (usually I am the only one working late).  Men call me "honey" and assume that I am a secretary when they hear a female voice. I do not waste my breath on them.

That happens to me at work also. Builders. I have a few that refuse to deal with me because I'm a female, but once something fucks up or their delivery is late, they expect me to fix it.
I worked retail for two years while I was doing a traineeship. Absolute Hell. Worked in every department and got abused in every department. One woman let her little angel shit on the floor and didn't bother to tell anyone.

I worked at Wal-Mart as a cashier one holiday season a few years ago. Wal-Mart has fairly rigorous training compared to what I'm hearing about a lot of other stores.  We were required to watch training videos on a computer and then take tests on the different modules.  I forget what score you had to get -- 70% or 80%, I think -- but you had to keep doing it until you got it right.  I think it took me a week at 4 hours per day to finish them all.  Then we were with an experienced cashier for 3 days.  Then -- on our own.  My first day at the register alone was Black Friday -- a real experience  :D

If ever a customer approached us asking for help -- whether we were on break, leaving to go home, whatever -- we were expected to help.  We were expected to know where everything in the store was (including groceries -- it was a super-store) even if we didn't know anything about particular products, and were expected to find or summon someone from that department to assist before we left.  Actually, we were also supposed to greet any customer who walked within 10 feet of us. I think some of the wokers slacked on that one, but I always tried to give a smile and a nod even if I didn't speak.

I got tempermental customers at the cash register sometimes -- usually folks I had to ID for buying various things.  The worst was a young guy buying an R-rated movie DVD.  We had to check IDs to make sure they were 17.  He didn't have an ID and got quite irate with me because he said he was 21 and I wouldn't sell the item to him.  I told him, sorry, but if I sell it to you and you're under age, I lose my job.  Also used to piss people off about ID for cigarettes, but we were supposed to card on cigarettes up to age 28. And then there were the poor little kids who'd come through trying to buy white-out.  Couldn't sell that and certain other potential "inhalents" to minors. They just looked sad, scared, and embarrassed, though -- they didn't mouth off.

Dang, that would be awful. I worked at Sears for 2  years during high school, more hours during the summer. My last pre-college summer I worked at a factory in the inventory department starting at 6 am - 3pm, then drove about an hour to Sears and worked the evening to close. I never worked Black Friday, but I did work Christmas Eve twice, and I had the busiest, most easily seen register in the women's area: lingerie. That being said, I rarely had anyone get irate with me about anything in my department. I'd have people come over with shoes and get pissed that I wouldn't ring them up, but most were understanding after I explained why they had to be done in the shoe department. The worst two were both returns of items...one that wasn't ours and I ended up pulling a JCP catalog and showing them that the brand was carried by them, the other of a supposedly only-worn-once shaper that was stained gray from all the exposure to cigarette smoke, had a couple of tears and suspicious brown stains. That was the only one that I had to call security on to have them removed from the store, because she was screaming and insisting that it was new and defective. I rarely called a manager over, actually only if the customer requested it, as I was kind of an unofficial floor manager when my immediate report wasn't in (that'd be usually).

As annoying as it can be to have people treat me like a child due to my rather childlike voice, it really is a blessing when dealing with people who are angry. It takes a special breed of asshole to yell at someone who sounds incredibly sweet and innocent.

I've worked retail, but thankfully, at Blockbuster. Not so many shoppers on Black Friday, but the week BEFORE Thanksgiving? GOD. Everyone came in to rent things for the kids to watch while the adults cooked/watched football. So, by the time Thanksgiving rolled around and people were thinking of this last minute would bitch about everything being gone. Especially video games, Christ on a Crutch. I dunno how many times I heard, "Where are all the games?"

"Everyone had the exact same idea as you, only they got here days ago. Have fun with the 4 year old Madden game. It's all we have left."

/me takes notes

I have a friend with a voice like that, really sweet and innocent, barely five foot tall. Her name is Pixie, seriously. She has just passed her exams and is now a lawyer. How I yearn to see her while she is working.

I'm very understanding when at a restaurant now, I worked as a hostess for several months and a cook\buss-er\dishwasher at another. Some waitresses are just bad, but others can only be as good as the kitchen is. It is usually not the wait staffs fault that something is wrong about your plate. Undercooked, overcooked, missing something. So forth and so on. So when complaining I try to be as polite as can be. I have experienced absolute bitches before and I have no desire to be like that. Anyway, why would you piss off someone who handles your food?

Indeed, I just linked a user on LJ to that post, she's having EA problems.

Yep, did that for 27 years.  Nine of those 27 years were also spent training people on new software AND (here's where it gets ugly) on customer phone support.  GAH.

Always late to the party...

As a retail slave for 9 years, 4 of those years in a Tech Bay/refund counter I can tell you this: the more of an ass you become (yelling etc) the less I will be motivated to help you. Legally in Australia, we don't have to return computer software once it's been opened, unless the disc is faulty and doesn't read.

My store had big signs advising of this, along with the "please read system requirements" signs. I got perverse pleasure in telling all those screaming asshats no, I will not refund you your money, cause your 3 year old system couldn't play Neverwinter Nights / latest release FPS. I got even more pleasure when the store owner would come out to see what the fuss was about and then yell at them for yelling at me, and kick them out.

BTW never yell at a tech when you are giving them your computer for extended warranty repair. We will browse your hard drive, laugh at your photos, copy your 10Gb of porn/mp3s/etc and then format the drive and tell you that the data was unrecoverable. We will point at the sign and at the waiver you signed when you booked the computer in that we do not make any guarantees about data recovery, and that rebuilt systems will be reformatted when rebuild is completed.

If you're polite and nice however, your data will be on cds for you to install, and you may even have some more  ;)

I've had to return stuff and never had a problem, and after 9 Christmases is retail, I'm super nice to everyone this time of year.

MaxoidSam should be happy now when much less care about his craps. :D

But, Doc Doofus's psychopathic game is just so cool as long and well as the corporate didn't hire spy agency to investigate nice frequently complaining customers who happen to think it worths to spend so much time and efforts for their causes.  Yet, should they do so, one can still befriend with the critics of the related fields and say what they have to say for more audiences.

After all, all the nice clerk/office experiences are also nice notes for me to take. :)

On the contrary, nil, corporate is too busy spying on their own employees to ever investigate their customers. Investigating customers is something a failed business does (the RIAA, for example). Check out the want ads, and I'm sure you'll notice some "secret shopper" jobs available from corporate for your average retail.  8)

Indeed, I should thank to the "secret shoppers" business, or I'd be well kicked out of a store for my badly-tasted clothes-up.  :D

For whatever it's worth, being nice to the peons is always the way to go.  Bonus; it works on most (intelligent) annoying phone type people as well such as telemarketers and political opinion poll people (both jobs I've been stuck with recently).  Just cut them off, apologize for not being interested, ask them to not to call again and tell them you hope they make their quota.  Won't help you if you get the idiot overly pushy phone types, alas.  And much like waitresses (I did graveyard shifts for years and refuse to use the word server as most customers think it means "servant") who see your food before you do, you really don't want to tick off a person who is likely looking at your address. 

I haven't followed the gamer vs. company drama on this game since just before Uni came out, but I'm not surprised that it's going down the way it is.  Most distributors don't really seem to care about the product they put out anymore, and rely on the fan community to fix (I mean make mods for) the game after it's release - NWN, The Movies, The Sims, etc.  Sigh.  At least there are bigger nerds than I out there, figuring out how to fix all the implied crap.  With rocket launchers.

I'd suggest just not buying anything. I have religious objections to this entire "spending money" thing, anyway. Spending money is a sin.

I just hang up. Saves us both time and energy and gives a very clear message. No mucking round. It's not mean, it's efficient and saves my temper.

I just never answer the phone. I don't actually know my number, and thus cannot solicit incoming calls on my dodgily acquired phone line, anyway. This automatically makes anyone who calls me here, rather than at the payphone I use, a telemarketer finding my number by random dialing. Naturally, you must have an appointment if you want to call me, or I simply will not be at the phone to receive it.

Both of those work too.  My advice is just for the repeat telemarketers (easy to spot with new automated telemarketing weirdness) that you either want to get rid of or accidentally answer the phone for.  Most people with annoying peon jobs are more willing to help out when they think you're one of them (implied by my quota comment).  Depending on the place doing the calling, the phone person may be able to do a little something extra to pull you from calling lists not covered by do-not-call laws.

I used to be nice to telemarketers, but they've gotten wise to my kind and started using scripts rather than engage in real conversation. So really, there's no point in listening to them. Just hang up.

In regards to telemarketing:

1)  I've done it before.  The managers/business isn't very nice to the people who actually do the work (the telemarketers who are on the phones)

2)  We have a telemarketing block on our phone provided by the phone company.  You call our number and hear this message that we don't take unsolicited called and you are told to press 1 plus the #.  Since most telemarketers face a computer wearing a headset with no controls to the phone they can't get through.  Our phone company offers that for an extra $2 a month.  But we pay for a "global communication package" which includes all the special phone features + dsl for one low price!

 ;D

Soon after we moved to Hong Kong, one of the first things I learned to say in Cantonese was "Sorry, I don't understand Cantonese." Dead useful phrase, even/especially when I do understand what's being said but just can't be arsed to listen anymore.

The other hilarious thing to do with telemarketers is, before they can begin their spiel, immediately start with your own pushy telemarketing spiel, like you called them instead.

My father-in-law loves to play with telemarketers. He gets all excited sounding, asks lots of questions about the product or service being sold, then gives a sob story about how this has been a rough year, he lost his job, etc., and how he would love to buy whatever, if only he had the money. Then asks the telemarketer if phone sales is a good job, starts getting all personal about how much money are they making and eventually asks if they are hiring. It's quite a long, drawn out performance, very entertaining for the family, probably not so much for the poor telemarketer.

 His other favorite tatic is to do the same bit about getting all excited and asking questions, and then tell the telmarketer to hold on while he asks his wife if it's okay to buy whatever. Then he puts the phone down and just walks away .

Frankly I'm surprised he's still on anyone's call list.

I despise phones in general, which is why I only own a cell.  It's set up to play custom ringtones for three numbers, I think.  My husband's cell, my parents' landline, and my brother-in-law's cell  (maybe the cells of my parents, I dunno).  If I hear the default tone, I thumb the side button to shut the ringer off and ignore it.

I don't know my number, either, but I have it written down somewhere.


My husband once managed to (ostensibly) convince a telemarketer that it wasn't actually necessary to ever file taxes.  Though, she might have been playing along in the hopes of getting things back on track to him purchasing something.

Hiya hon! Skye here *waves*  yeah, I did the bbb, and the ftc, and also wrote to the legal company who sued sony before (it was a link i found on the bbs). The BBB case came back as unresolved, the FTC I haven't heard from, and I guess the other one is just gathering information right now. 
I have put up with a lot, just by giving my information and telling folks I have problems with my pc. I guess protesting isn't very popular, but why do those folks who take delight in insulting us who have problems even stay in that area? They like to butt in to put us down.
I still have the securom in my pc even after the "fix tool" they brought out. I am looking into how to fix this myself...computarded as I am.....lol
hugs,
Skye

Hiya to Celesta, that is...lol

Hi there dear, if you haven't read it already, please read the FAQS (http://"http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,7437.0.html")
And  a little posting tip for you, double posting is frowned upon here as bad forum etiquette. You have a little "edit" post button, on your posts, use that instead.

I love how all the clerkly types are acting like no clerk was ever rude to a customer with no justification. That's hilariously luzy. Where I live, minimum wage jobs are a dime a dozen, so shop minions can get away with being lazy, rude and generally having a "fuck you" attitude because every shop has a "Now Hiring" sign. Yes, customers can be assholes, but sometimes we are goaded into it.

I think complaining and making a scene are both tactics that can be effective; being rude can have its place, but you always need to weigh up your desired outcome. Making a scene can be satisfying, but it is also risky. If there's no chance you are going to get what you want, hell, yeah, cut loose. Persistent, polite, but FIRM complaining is usually the best way to go when you actually want some action.

On the other hand, speaking as someone who worked in places where we were told to refer to students as "clients," sometimes complaining is a lose/lose situation. An example:

I worked in a Learning Skills (i.e. tutoring and editing) Unit in a University. I pretty much hated my job, and so if students were annoying or gave me a hard time I wouldn't help them. Most days I was there on my own with no supervision, and my boss would yell at me if I thought of new ideas or tried to be innovative in my work. It was pretty joyless. One student complained about me to the Dean because I was 5 minutes late to her appointment, and when she was shitty about it I tossed her. My boss, who hated me anyway, left me a note. The next time the student had an appointment on a day I was working I refused to see her. She went to the Dean again. He came to me and said "What gives?" and I said "She is rude and she complained about me, so I don't think I need to deal with her," and he said "Fair enough." When she came back to me to complain again (slow learner), I pointed out to her that she should be thanking me for the life lesson.

I allow the now rare telemarketer to introduce themselves then cut them off with the line "Are you aware we've signed up to the TPS?", to which I get a grovelling apology and a promise to immediately remove our number from their database. I highly recommend the Telephone Preference Service (http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/what/) to anyone in the UK. There is a similar thing for the post to cut down on junk mail. We now get a telesales call perhaps every other month and no junk mail.

Doesn't always work.
We signed up last year some time and still get calls. My tactic with them is to make sure I get their name, the company name spelt correctly and ask them to tell their manager that I will be reporting the company. It took months to get the calls down even though TPS says it should take one. The report form is really tedious and demands heaps of information so I don't always follow up. Simply saying I signed up to TPS doesn't put them all off.

Funny, but in my experience, that always gets you fired. In fact, at the university I went to even the appearance of being difficult (without any evidence whatsoever) is enough for them to hand you a pink slip. On the other hand, the registrar always seemed to be able to keep her job despite being a racist bigot and a complete bitch.

You have blackmail material on the Dean or something?

No, but it was an academic position, and it was in Australia, where the snowflakes aren't quite as special as they seem to be in North America.

That's pretty much the job I do, except I mostly cover computing with some generic thrown in. I would be in deep guano if I refused to see a student as you did Ro. I must take my revenge in much smaller, more petty ways. Like a recent student who has been resident here for 10 years but uses her 'lack of language' to do the rounds of the learning advisors. I play mind games with her, every question she asks me about what she should write, I rephrase and return to her. As in, 'no, I'm not going to tell you the answers to write'! She pretends I've misunderstood her and I continue to pretend to misunderstand her, still at least she only books me now when no-one else is available.  :D

Well, I think part of it was that I hated the job and didn't give a shit, and University policies at the time (budget cutbacks) meant that every term certain academic was on a 2-week contract. You never know what you can get away with until you have nothing to lose, I guess.

Yeah, I'd hate it too if that was all I ever got to do, but I do projects - currently a careers/CV/Personal Development Profile website also I'm in a group to revamp our four websites into one portal driven one, plus some teaching and next year some research so I do get variety. I also work on two campuses. I think I'd go nuts if I had to sit and do the same thing over and over.

Yeah, I guess you can have a lot of fun when you've nothing to lose.  ;D

Rohina-

For all your speshul snowflakes:

(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/Jelenedra/specialcat-pam.jpg)

My biggest gripe when I was in a service position is being told the policies, abiding by them, taking the shit from customers, and then having management do a 180 and approve something I had been told I was never to do for a customer. I had several managers who would do this to their staff members.

In other words, management rewarded assheads and towed the line when polite customers had a genuine complaint more often than I care to recall, and made the customer think I was being difficult for kicks. Way to go!

On commission jobs, this really shot me in the foot, as those customers would then go to management and ask them to serve or ring them up, and the tips / credit went to them rather than the low level employees who actually needed the bennies to make ends meet.

I have also been management, and I was careful not to let the customer go away angry with the employee for doing as he/she was told if I had the power to tweak a certain policy or offer freebies. I made sure not to reward assheads, too.

At least the form in the US for the Do Not Call List violators is short and easy to fill in- basically my number, their number and/or company name, and time of call. We also pay AT&T for Privacy Manager, which doesn't let blocked numbers ring through unless they identify themselves- but in CA, it's by voice. Nothing irritates me more than some idiot Telemarketer who has the nerve to actually identify themselves so that it rings through.  Like I pay for this service for no real reason, I really want to hear about THEIR product.  Then they get bitched at. For everyone else- usually 1-800 service numbers, as they try to get around the program- I just cut them off and tell them that the # is on the do not call list and to remove me from their calling list immediately.  Then I report them. I just wish the FTC had a spot to report charities, surveys, etc who are exempt from the Do Not Call list, but still are required to remove you if you ask them to do so. The same with companies you've done business with within 12 months.

My biggest phone annoyance right now, though, is creditors calling for the person who had this number before us. Grrr. Ever try convincing a creditor that the person they are looking for doesn't live there?  ::) Creditors are legally required to stop calling if you ask them to, as well, but try to get that to happen without a lawyer! Bah! It's bad enough when they are your own creditors, but at least then you've done something to "deserve" it.

YES.

We have told them about 4 times now that there is no Arthur Winjay Moose here. And that the name doesn't sound real anyway. When we actually manage to get hold of a real person, the calls stop for about 3 weeks, then start again. It makes me consider supporting Pescado's rocket launchers for all stance.

At least the people trying to sell us satellite dishes and claiming they have a great way to refinance our house have stopped. "We live in an apartment, take us off your list," didn't work, but the Do Not Call list did. So far, anyway.

If you hate someone, put their mobile phone number on a GNC Gold Card list. Someone put my number on there, probably to get a 5% discount or something. Robots call very EARLY in the morning. It sucks.

I do not shop at GNC and live seven hours away from the branch that is calling me. I've been on the DNC list since 2003.  I've reported them, emailed them, called several rungs up the ladder, called corporate, and tried to block the number, which rotates each month. I've been treated rudely by meatheads, given a porn 800 number supposedly belonging to corporate, and have spoken to some of the biggest cretins on Earth.

Fucking GNC.

Friends of mine get so many bill collector calls they have started to tell them that the person they were calling for is dead. They give this big sob story about a plane crash or some such. "Oh, I'm sorry, but they are dead, it was very tragic."

My grandfather had a store credit card, and my grandmother had a second card on my grandfather's account.  After his death, my grandmother continued to use the card.  It was easier than applying for one in her own name (since she had no credit history of her own).  One month she forgot to pay the bill and fell into arrears.  They rang my grandmother and asked to speak to my grandfather about the arrears.  My mother was the one who answered the phone, and when they asked to speak to my grandfather she answered "He can't come to the phone right now, he's in the garden and not to be disturbed".  She was right, too.  His ashes were in the garden.

As for recycled phone numbers, it seems my phone number belonged to a hooker before I was given it.  In the first few months of having the phone number, I got quite a few calls after midnight requesting her services.  Fortunately the number didn't belong to this address, otherwise I'd have had them turning up on my doorstep as well.

How much were they offering? Enough for you to acquire a hooker to pimp out?

Yep, had that one for a while too. Loved how when I told them that Tiffany didn't live there, they'd always ask, "Are you sure?" Guh. Am I sure? Yeah, I'm reasonably sure who does and does not live at my house.

Quickly got tired of Tiffany's pissed off creditors and changed our number. The new number clearly used to be for some after-hours animal rescue hotline - oh, the fun of being nerve-jangled over to the phone at 3.30am to have some poor, panicked soul start shouting at me, "My dog's having a stroke! What do I do?!" Yeah, we didn't keep that number either.

Yea, in some areas the phone companies are running out of numbers, so they're recycling them faster and faster.  I keep getting calls on my business cell from someone in Miami who only speaks Spanish, and my Spanish isn't good enough to have a clue what they're saying.  I've gotten real good at 'No habla espaniol'. :)

When I moved into my place, I started to get worried about Lauren. She had doctors, her child's school, all kinds of people after her. Then I realized that the number used to belong to the local Cingular store and Lauren had been the victim the phone company had selected before me.

Cingular store number from their location in one of the biggest shopping districts in my city THAT WAS STILL PRINTED IN THE LATEST PHONEBOOK!!!

(Whew, sorry for the shouting, bad memories.)

Rohina said: "No, but it was an academic position, and it was in Australia, where the snowflakes aren't quite as special as they seem to be in North America."

Hehheh!  I will remember that one.  Some of us are rather special snowflakes!

I used to get bill collectors.  I ran up a huge hospital bill that I couldn't pay, so I just said screw it and didn't pay it.  I still had most of my credit intact, including new credit cards coming in the mail.  Defaulting on a student loan is bad mojo; defaulting on a hospital bill, nobody seems to care.  (Remember that!)

The bill collectors can be aggressive.  You can take action to make them stop calling, but I decided to just fuck with them and keep them on the phone for hours until they gave up.  When they got tired of talking to me, I asked for their personal phone number so I could call them back to continue our discussion.  They refuse of course.

That's utterly devious. I'm going to try that with the telstra callspammers. It's not like i have anything pressing to do with my time at the moment. :D

Better yet, use a 1-900 number as your home phone. Then you just need to keep them talking long enough to actually pay your bill. :P

Sure, in your best sultry voice.