How to get rid of SecuRom, NOW

[JCSpencer]

I can at least answer part of your question. In order to limit the appearance of, return of, or initial installation of SecuROM, I advise you to read the thread Joe directed me to, here: BV and no CD?

While the primary purpose was too discuss BV in particular, most of the other problem expansions are also covered, and there are plenty of methods to choose from. Some may work for you, some may not. But the thread is definitely very informative.

EDIT: Oh, and make sure you read all of the posts, because different configurations are discussed on later pages. Some people had different approaches depending on whether they had XP or Vista, and some of the solutions were easier (but theoretically only short term), while others were much more advanced (but theoretically long term). The only part I found confusing was that some people say to remove registry files, others say not to touch them - that it either isn't necessary, or could cause instability.

That's one reason I would like to see if there is more substantial evidence regarding the "badness"of SecuROM before I bother messing with stuff. After all, the old saying goes, "If ain't broke, don't fix it." I'm perfectly fine running with SecuROM on my system (it came with Deluxe, which I have atm); no problems to report.

[sluggo]

Oh for God's sake. You obviously didn't even bother to READ my post, let alone anything else. I never, EVER asked "how to remove said maulware."

Well, Obviously *you* didn't read, because this thread clearly states "How to get rid of SecuRom, NOW," and I was clearly stating your origional post :

This is the only thread that search returns for "SecuROM," so I'll ask here. What the hell is it, or rather why is it so evil?

I was posting a list of problems on Insim in the General Help area, and I got the response that because I have Deluxe (Base+NL), I have the evil SecuROM and that is the likely culprit. I really don't understand how copy protection software can cause the errors I was experiencing, but because I have no knowledge about this particular program, I obviously can't be 100% certain of that fact.

 was vague and unacceptable and would normally be responded on this board with the reply that I threw.

 As your later posts elaborated on the subject, they would have been more acceptable, and you would have happily been pointed to the correct thread, which also tells you that not everyone is experiencing problems, only those of us that have programs/configurations that Sony has decided they don't like.

 And, as this is wandering off the subject, I'm going to drop it here.

[Zazazu]

JCSpencer, you may have just been searching for results in this thread (the big blank text box). It's best to run a search from within "Advanced search". I got 2 pages of results for SecuRom.

First, few here are panicing about SecuRom. We aren't that alarmist. The BBS...well. That's another story, and the big NOW was a badly-aimed mocking at the pitchfork-raising going on over there. And "we" (and especially I) am not saying that you must remove it...it's your computer. It's your choice. But if you are having issues, or feel violated by it, here in this thread we have instructions that have been reported to work with both XP and the evil Vista.

Issues that can be caused by SecuRom:
1. Causes some CD-burning programs not to work. Known targets: Nero, Sonic, Alcohol 120.
2. Causes some anti-virus programs to stall during a scan, not start a scan, or report subscriptions as expired. Known targets: Norton, McAfee.
3. Causes issues with running the game from CD on initial install or on reinstall. This is especially bad since EAxis' solution to everything is to tell us to reinstall the game. Users get the message to enter the original game CD instead of a backup, even though they are using the original game CD.
4. Rumored to actually break CD readers. While this is technically not possible, one user did report that they had been trying to burn a CD right before bed and when they woke up, Nero was still stalled and the CD writer had misaligned. Unnecessary wear-and-tear, if you will.
5. Possible security risk through rootkit set-up. This one is beyond me, perhaps someone more awesome can explain. (hint hint)

[JCSpencer]

Hmm, not sure how I made such a silly error, but I was puzzled by why the "BV no CD" article never showed up in my search results when it clearly talked a lot about SecuROM. Now I know. Thanks!

And I hope you didn't take offense to anything I said. I didn't mean to infer that you or anyone else was causing unnecessary panic; I did notice some of the posts in related threads did reflect a more panicky response (usually from the people that were only following the advice but didn't really understand what they were doing it or why they were doing it). I simply like to be kept abreast of things, and I really just didn't understand what was so bad. Contrary to what my friend above thinks, I did quite a bit of research, but most of the sites keep talking about how to remove it, or about the CD-burner/VP problems. Not even the Wiki or hack sites really gave much info. They just mainly focused on the here-and-now: I don't want it, how do I get rid of it.

Oddly, I do have Sonic, but I haven't noticed any problems that I know of. Well, I get the occasional "failed to make a copy" thing, but I've been getting those forever. 1 out of every 15-20 discs or so. I attribute it to trying to do too much other stuff while burning. Or just a bad disc now and again (which is a pretty common error, but has been incorrectly attributed to the wrong sources).

No problems for me on #2 and 3, but #4 can actually be caused by almost any copy-protection software, especially when it is called needlessly and incessantly. Can't recall which of my games was doing that, but I know the community was pretty ticked off about it. It's actually bad for the entire system, especially laptops, because of the extra heat and vibrations. But to be honest, I haven't noticed excessive spinning of my drives; but since I know I acquired SecuROM through Deluxe, and I currently have installed up to OFB, that means I am playing with the OFB disc, which in turn means I'm not susceptible to constant CP checks caused by SecuROM - right? At least until (or if) I have installed BV. Let me know if I'm wrong with that line of thinking.

Unless I misunderstood #5, SecuRom itslef isn't actually a rootkit. You can find out everything you ever wanted to know about (and how to find) rootkits here: RootkitRevealer v1.71 (yeah, I know, I'm linking the scriptures of Satan). Anyway, SecuRom is just a service, and can be disabled/deleted; of course that doesn't mean it couldn't be a potential threat (XPSP1 proved that). However, the problem is that it gets reinstalled and reinitiated every time you load a standard disk. That alone could make this "magically" reappearing program look malicious, but I still haven't found any real cases of security risks. And the only real downside to having SecuRom running is that it can cause intermittent spikes in resource usage. Not that Sims doesn't already handle resources in an incredibly inefficient manner.

I could be way off base here, I suppose. Just what I can find on the subject thus far. There are a gazillion tuts out there for removing SecuRom, but hardly anything discussing what the problems are. I think people may be associating the evils of the Sony Music DRM to Sims, but that doesn't apply because there's no such protection granted to Sims discs. I think I'm even more confused. I can just delete the service after each game session; only takes a few seconds, and I'm never connected while playing (assuming there is a security hole and nobody's found it yet).

Anyway, thanks for taking the time out to educate me, Zazazu. I may be new here, but I've spent countless hours reading threads lately, and have seen enough of your replies in other posts to respect you and your opinion. So again, apologies if my wording was offensive in anyway. I merely came seeking information. I had preconceived notions about the issue, but I was wondering if I may have been wrong.

[Ambular]

Hmm, not sure how I made such a silly error, but I was puzzled by why the "BV no CD" article never showed up in my search results when it clearly talked a lot about SecuROM. Now I know. Thanks!

The search function in this forum is the cause of much wailing and gnashing of teeth even among forum regulars, so don't feel bad. 

I just wanted to add that I've heard some people report that Bon Voyage refused to install if it detected the presence of certain programs (such as Daemon Tools) on their computers.  Others have been unable to run the game at all without a no-CD crack due to Zazuzu's issue #3.

I personally dislike the thing because it irritates me no end to have to haul the CD out every time I want to run the game, and unlike the copy protection on earlier EP's, SecuROM won't let me start it up using GameJackal (a perfectly legal program that requires the original CD for initial setup) instead.

Also, I just have a strong philosophical objection to anything being on my computer that won't delete when I hit 'Delete,' especially if I was not accorded the courtesy of being told about it beforehand.

[JCSpencer]

It sounds like Maxis (EA, whatever) is screwing this up more and more. If this were a restaurant, we'd get free (better) replacements, an apology and a coupon. Personally, I love OFB and I love UNI (although I seem to be in the minority on the latter), but from everything I read, I think I may just stop here while I'm still happy with the game overall (for the most part).

I definitely echo your sentiments regarding things being installed without consent or at least being made aware, and certainly being restricted from ultimate control of your PC is enough to make me throw mice and fruitsnacks. But I guess in my old age, and pessimistic view of life, I've come to realize that most companies don't really give a damn about courtesy anymore. Although I am still puzzled as to why they think we'll never notice. We always do.

Honestly, I'm trying to avoid dealing with all this other nonsense if I can, which was the main reason I was hoping to learn as much as I could about the threats that SecuRom might have posed (if any). If running from the disc doesn't turn my comp into a BFBVFS, I'm happy. But if I have to start downloading cracks and special tools just to play a game I paid US$50 for, plus hundreds of extra dollars for all the EPs and SPs, just because it was virtually unplayable from the box or risked my computer, then EA can go to hell. I've got a lot of other fun games from less devious companies with which I can divert my attention if one of them becomes more hassle than fun.

[Ambular]

Honestly, I'm trying to avoid dealing with all this other nonsense if I can, which was the main reason I was hoping to learn as much as I could about the threats that SecuRom might have posed (if any). If running from the disc doesn't turn my comp into a BFBVFS, I'm happy. But if I have to start downloading cracks and special tools just to play a game I paid US$50 for, plus hundreds of extra dollars for all the EPs and SPs, just because it was virtually unplayable from the box or risked my computer, then EA can go to hell. I've got a lot of other fun games from less devious companies with which I can divert my attention if one of them becomes more hassle than fun.

At this point I think whether or not I continue to pick up the EP's is going to depend on what the new EP's contain and how much of an issue it will be to upgrade.  I can live with having to keep downloading cracks and stripping out the SecuROM with each EP and/or patch, if necessary.  But if, as Deviancy predicts, new cracks are not forthcoming...well, there's tons of custom content and mods out there to keep my game fresh, and the more difficult and annoying EA makes it for us to keep adding expansions, the more motivated creators will be to learn to come up with fun new stuff themselves.  Or at least I hope so.

[JCSpencer]

...well, there's tons of custom content and mods out there to keep my game fresh, and the more difficult and annoying EA makes it for us to keep adding expansions, the more motivated creators will be to learn to come up with fun new stuff themselves.  Or at least I hope so.

Honestly, that's why I have yet to buy any of the stuff packs. I can't envision paying US$20 for a handful of new items, most of which I don't even care about, when I can pick and choose exactly what I want, for free, and frequently at much higher levels of quality from websites like this. Which brings up something else - the only reason MATY is even around is because JM is doing for free what Maxis should have paid its people to do the first time around. As much as I appreciate JM and the MATY crew, this shouldn't be necessary. I swear, I really think some of these companies are releasing games in the states that they are because they know somebody in their respective communities is going to fix it for them and it won't cost them a dime (actually we are *paying* for their borked crap and then fixing it for free; what's the definition of a sucker?). "Yeah, it's done enough, ship it out and let them fix it. Start the next EP!" I've never seen this in any other industry, at least not to this degree. What if Ford BMW made their cars half-ass and required customers to fix it at their own time and expense? Or what if you got an oil change, but they secretly slipped something else in there without permission or notification that could screw up other parts of the car? There'd be hell to pay. And we're not talking about simple fixes here, at least not for the layman. How many Sims players do you really think can grasp this SecuRom tutorial. I'm not trying to insult here, but a high computer literacy isn't required for most games - and it shouldn't be. Apparently EA doesn't agree with me.

Okay, I better stop. I just totally derailed this thread. Feel free to move my posts to a relevant whiny section if you like. Or burninate them. Or rip off my lips. Or both.


EDIT: Good God, this is beyond disgraceful. I hope I didn't belittle anyone and their problems with any of the previous statements. I just spent a while reading the BBS with Maxoid Sam (where I notice some MATY members have posted); I had no idea the problems were so extensive. But what I find odd is why this information isnt being better spread to the internet. This needs to get out there (even if only to boycott EA). My mind is made up - screw giving them any more of my hard earned money. I hope JM makes a real world burninator so we can turn EAxis into a BFFBVFFS (extra Fs added for dramatic effect and censored cussing).

EDIT #2: I just found this online. Sounds a little too easy, but it also makes sense logically. Posting it here to see what any of you might think.

The easiest way to remove it without using additional software, is to go and delete it from the \windows\system32\ folder (I think the filename is UAService7.exe).

Then make a text file with the same name, in the same directory, and then right click the file, and make it "Hidden" and "Read Only". Then go into Control Panel/Admin/Services and disable/stop the SecuROM service. It will never load OR install ever again, and you are forever ridden of SecuROM but can still play all SecuROM games.

[jsalemi]

As someone noted here or in one of the other BV threads, the Slashdot web site has noticed the uproar, and they're one of the big gamer news sites.  So the word is getting out there beyond the Sims community.

[JCSpencer]

Yeah, I discovered if I try a bunch of different keyword strings, I can bring up a better selection of specific articles, but you have to know what the keywords are before you can really search. Kinda hard if you don't know anything about it initially. LOL.

[JCSpencer]

Ah, cassette tape drives - when volume control could screw up your entire save process.

LOL! Ah I miss my old TI.

You know, I actually can't help but wonder if the CD burner problems I've been experiencing have really been related to this SecuROM crap. I wrote it off as normal misbehavior, but now I'm not so sure. It didn't give me too much trouble until about 4 or 5 months ago. I thought maybe I had just overused it. But it just so happens I installed The Sims 2 then. Before that, I was using my friend's copy, but when she took it back I had to buy my own. And guess what? I bought Deluxe, one of the SecuROM carriers. Unwittingly.

Now I also wondered, "If Deluxe had SecuROM, why is it only now becoming a problem?" That thought contributed to my suspicion that most of the people (not all) were misdiagnosing their problems. But then it occurred to me that not many people had bought Sims 2 Deluxe, but Bon Voyage, the first non-repeated EP to be released with SecuROM - the majority of the players grabbed that one. Thus, it suddenly seems to appear, even though it's technically been floating around for over a year.

And my writing this off as normal wear and tear makes me wonder something else. How many people out there are doing the same thing? Writing off SecuROM problems as something else? EA claims it can't be SecuROM based mostly on the fact they've received few actual complaints (they say 41 phone calls and around 1000 BBS posters, as of a few days ago). They call that few, but they also say they've sold 100,000 copies. That's a 1:100 problem ratio, which should be unacceptable to most companies -  sure would be in the car industry (however, I argue that the numbers their using are inaccurately evaluated; I think it's closer to 1:30 and that's probably too high as well).

[J. M. Pescado]

Deluxe not exhibiting problems would simply be because if you have a more advanced expansion pack, its executables are used instead of the more primitive ones. Therefore, it never becomes a factor. Same reason why H&M and Celebrations(?) which had it, also didn't become issues, because their executables are not used.

[muridae]

You know, I actually can't help but wonder if the CD burner problems I've been experiencing have really been related to this SecuROM crap. I wrote it off as normal misbehavior, but now I'm not so sure.

My laptop's DVD burner started playing up round about Christmas last year, at which point it was about 8 months old and hadn't been heavily used. I wrote it off to crappy hardware at the time, but the problems all started at around the time I installed Neverwinter Nights 2. So I've now checked, and yes, there are SecuROM services and registry entries, and the datestamps match up to when I patched NWN2. And I use Nero to burn DVDs, which would also be a factor. So it's taken 9-10 months for me to start wondering whether there could be a connection between me installing a game and the DVD drive playing up.

To be fair, it could still just be crappy device drivers and nothing to do with NWN2's SecuROM. But when I can find time I'll do a complete rebuild of the machine and not put any games back on it. In the meantime I'm trying to keep my desktop machine clean, so that I can at least burn DVDs somewhere.

I do wonder how extensive a range of hardware it's been tested with. I have a SATA DVD burner in my desktop machine, and that's definitely caused me compatibility issues with a couple of pieces of software before they got patched, because they were expecting an IDE drive. It's a Lightscribe drive too; heaven only knows if that confuses the issue.

But then it occurred to me that not many people had bought Sims 2 Deluxe, but Bon Voyage, the first non-repeated EP to be released with SecuROM - the majority of the players grabbed that one. Thus, it suddenly seems to appear, even though it's technically been floating around for over a year.

There have also been other choices for latecomers to the game to buy, other than Deluxe. In the UK we've certainly had a Base Game + Pets bundle, and a "Festive Edition" which bundled the base game and the holiday stuff pack, and I still see them on the shelves from time to time. Deluxe was released 2 months later over here, so only came out 2 months before Bon Voyage. So those regional differences whittle down the numbers who might have got problems from it still further, even before you factor in combining it with later EPs and SPs.

Also, for some people, Bon Voyage displays quite noticeable lag problems just trying to load the game, with stuttering audio/video at the neighbourhood chooser and during the initial neighbourhood load. That's an immediate giveaway clue that there's something slightly wrong; if the earlier games with SecuROM on loaded smoothly their owners would have had no real reason to look deeply into what the game was doing on their PC.

[JCSpencer]

Thanks for the clarification, JM. That didn't occur to me, but I guess it's why I my problems have been so small and intermittent. I acquired EPs pretty soon after Deluxe, so I stopped using that disc.

muridae, I have pretty much the same bizarre happenings as you denote. I also use Nero and Sonic, and further my system (laptop) is an HP, which I heard someone say was also causing conflicts (although I've heard several reports about peope having problems even with Sony equipment). But I'm also hard on my computers. I usually end up replacing them every 18 months or so, sometimes more frequently. Not from abuse mind you (that's reserved for my separate keyboard and mouse). I just overuse the hell out of them and they are almost never shutdown, other than for the few seconds before restarting them. So I'm used to things acting up over time; but the computer was still pretty new when I had the burner issues. However, after seeing stories like yours and mine, where it's easy to see how we can *think* it's something else, I wonder, if you have hundreds of people that are thinking "nah, it's not SecuROM, it's something else," then there seems to be an uncomfortable pattern. Some are doing this just because they don't want to jump on the bandwagon out of ignorance and point the finger at EA, but how many of us are there going to be (people with SecuROM-type problems, but that are looking for other reasons) before we realize - there are way too many coincidences to ignore. That's a rhetorical question, lol, not directing it at you specifically. And what the point of that diatribe was, well... I'm still in the middle of my first cup of coffee?

[angelyne]

I wonder if the references to rootkits and security concerns are related to the Sony fiasco some time back.  They had decided on a DRM scheme that installed a rootkit on your computer, without your knowledge or consent.  And this was music, not even a program. 

Rootkits, for those who don't know,  are cloaking technologies that hide files, Registry keys, and other system objects from diagnostic.  It's like the cloaking devices in Star Trek.  It makes you invisible and almost undetectable.

The Sony rootkit was designed to hide any files, registry keys and processes starting with the string $sys$,, IIRC.  You can see right away the potential for any hacker to exploit this to run a virus or malware and stay hidden from detection.  A fact that escaped no one.  In fact it was quickly taken up by some enterprising fellows in an online game who used it to hide cheating software from the scanners installed by the game to detect this type of thing.

To make matter worse, after Sony was called on it, and the controversy grew, this what happened :

Sony BMG released a software utility to remove the rootkit component of XCP from affected Microsoft Windows computers, but this removal utility was soon analyzed by Russinovich again in his November 5, 2005, blog and revealed as only exacerbating the privacy and security concerns.[12]

In fact, the Sony BMG removal program merely unmasked the hidden files installed by the rootkit, but did not actually remove the rootkit. In addition, this program was reported to install additional software that cannot be uninstalled. In order to download the uninstaller, it is necessary to provide an e-mail address (which the Sony BMG Privacy Policy implies to be added to various bulk e-mail lists), and to install an ActiveX control containing backdoor methods (marked as "safe for scripting", and thus prone to exploits).

So from bad to worse.  You can read the story on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Sony_BMG_CD_copy_protection_scandal and from Russinovich's blog : http://blogs.technet.com/markrussinovich/search.aspx?q=rootkit&p=1 You shoud read the blog.   It was like a watching a train wreck.  It was funny at the time, but only because I wasn't actually on that train.

That was a FUBAR of monumental proportion and let to several lawsuits. It also set a bad precedent for the software industry.

So, not that I want defend EA, but this is nowhere near as bad as the Sony case.  The changes are not hidden, for one.  But the Sony case might be why people are mumbling about security issues.  It's just a guess on my part.

[Lorelei]

maulware

(ROFFLE!)

I like that word. 

[JCSpencer]

The Sony rootkit was designed to hide any files, registry keys and processes starting with the string $sys$,, IIRC.  You can see right away the potential for any hacker to exploit this to run a virus or malware and stay hidden from detection.  A fact that escaped no one.  In fact it was quickly taken up by some enterprising fellows in an online game who used it to hide cheating software from the scanners installed by the game to detect this type of thing.

Not to mention all the other trojans, malware, spyware and adware, and who knows what else, that also took advantage of Sony's free umbrella.

So, not that I want defend EA, but this is nowhere near as bad as the Sony case.  The changes are not hidden, for one.  But the Sony case might be why people are mumbling about security issues.  It's just a guess on my part.

I wouldn't defend EA, in fact *because* of this they should be smacked silly. It's not like it was a secret, isolated little incident. It's all over the big news, music and gaming boards. Everyone knew what Sony had done, so EA was just plain stupid for getting involved (not to mention aligning yourself with a company that has been getting worse and worse PR lately, with statements such as the one declaring "copying a song from a CD you own is stealing.")

I think the real reason EA kept us in the dark about the new "copy protection" was not because they didn't feel like making a new EULA, but because they knew most informed customers would never have bought the affected games had they told us up front that SecuROM was on it - it's already got a bad track record, and there would have been warning posts put up on every major gaming and Sims-related website. Maybe that's a little conspiracy-theory-ish, but ...

[morriganrant]

I think part of the damn problem with all of this having happened to begin with is how corporations promote new members of their team. They bring in people from outside the company who know about business in general but not about the specific business that they are in. One example of this is my manager and I reading a transcript from the head GameStop office. "We welcome out new VIP who comes to us after being an executive of Tacobell". Not an exact quote as my memory is horrible but you get the gist. What the fuck does Tacobell have to do with selling games? The guy must know business, but what does he know about this business?
It's horrible business practices like this, putting a person who knows nothing about the particular business, in charge of making decisions that effect the more base and supporting levels of the business. So maybe the guys who wanted the almighty dollar actually had no idea about the Sony fiasco because they are so far at the top, it didn't effect them, they never knew about it, same thing with what everyone is saying all over the gaming sites about it, what could they know about it? They probably have nothing to do with games other then raking in the cash, why would they be on a gaming site? Which just points to them doing horrible research about a company before they make a deal with it, Sony is still one of the big boys, that's what most people see, unless you look in the right places you wouldn't see how big of a deal the incidents that surround them are. How many of the average joes on the street know about this incident or the other one?

Now the Sims 2 team is having to back peddle through enough sludge and shit to make Katrina proud. Part of the reason why there is the big cry of Rootkit with all of this, other then the previous DRM scheme, is the fact that SecuRom shows up with the rootkit revealer. If you see RootKit on your computer and there is this connection to a similar situation that had a real rootkit then yeah, you are going to get a little loud about it. That's one thing I want to know, why exactly does SecuRom show as a rootkit if it isn't one, what in it screams Rootkit to the programs meant to find these things?

[JCSpencer]

From what I've read, it's identified as a rootkit because it's behaviors are virtually identical to (and thus fit the definition of) rootkit. Such as the manner in which it installs itself, the manner in which it runs, the manner in which it attempts to mask both its presence and its functions, the location where it is installed, and the fact that it does provide administrative-level access (or the potential for other programs to have it) on systems (which was the original purpose of rootkits on Unix systems, I believe). The people screaming that SecuROM is malicious are not really on the right track. With the DRM fiasco, Sony's program was not malicious in and of itself; it was the fact that it allowed a nice hiding place for other malicious programs, which is what Sony got sued for. And according to FTC Chairwoman Deborah Platt Majoras: "Installations of secret software that create security risks are intrusive and unlawful." Yet this is exactly what SecuROM is doing - it is a secret program (or attempts to be) that creates a security risk. It certainly was secret in the manner in which it was distributed to us.

And still EA hasn't answered this question: If they claim and truly believe that since SecuROM is a copy protection program - meaning they didn't feel it was necessary to disclose which CP they were using - then why can't it be uninstalled with the game, especially when they claim that SecuROM is integral to Bon Voyage? If it is going to leave the software on our computers even after the game is installed, then it is not integral; instead BV is dependent on it. There's a huge difference, especially since the latter requires not only EA to inform us of the install, but to inform us that SecuROM is part of the software's operational requirements. They were allowed to say that SecuROM was included, but they broke the law by hiding everything from us and allowing the installation of software the FTC labels as illegal. And that's another important point to get across to all the naysayers on the EA BBS claiming that SecuROM isn't damaging systems: Whether or not systems have been damaged because of SecuROM is not the point - EA broke the damn law! That's all that matters, and THAT affected everyone who purchased and installed any of the SecuROM-inclusive titles.

As for what you said, morriganrant, I agree with you mostly, except the higher ups weren't the ones programming the game. You'd think at some point someone in the company would've said, "Um, sir? Is this really a good idea?" You'd think someone that actually mattered in that company would've heard about SecuROM's previous woes. PR, legal, marketing, programming... someone. I dunno. I still think EA is more to blame than Sony. Sure, they made the product, but EA made the choice to give it to us without warning, and now is unwilling to make a sincere effort to apologize and help us fix this. They must have mighty big rugs in EA headquarters, that's all I can say.

[jmtmom]

Has anyone had success using these steps on a VISTA machine?

[JCSpencer]

I can only suggest checking page 2 of this thread. Some users with Vista discussed using this method with success, although a couple of things seemed different, such as where registries are located, and possibly requires you to download a DLL that Vista no longer maintains by default. Wish I could be more help.

[miramis]

Has anyone had success using these steps on a VISTA machine?

Yes, it worked like a charm too.  In my own case a couple of steps weren't necessary because the files were apparently not installed, possibly because I have read-only dvd and cd drives.

[Celesta]

From what I've read, it's identified as a rootkit because it's behaviors are virtually identical to (and thus fit the definition of) rootkit. Such as the manner in which it installs itself, the manner in which it runs, the manner in which it attempts to mask both its presence and its functions, the location where it is installed, and the fact that it does provide administrative-level access (or the potential for other programs to have it) on systems (which was the original purpose of rootkits on Unix systems, I believe). The people screaming that SecuROM is malicious are not really on the right track. With the DRM fiasco, Sony's program was not malicious in and of itself; it was the fact that it allowed a nice hiding place for other malicious programs, which is what Sony got sued for. And according to FTC Chairwoman Deborah Platt Majoras: "Installations of secret software that create security risks are intrusive and unlawful." Yet this is exactly what SecuROM is doing - it is a secret program (or attempts to be) that creates a security risk. It certainly was secret in the manner in which it was distributed to us.

And still EA hasn't answered this question: If they claim and truly believe that since SecuROM is a copy protection program - meaning they didn't feel it was necessary to disclose which CP they were using - then why can't it be uninstalled with the game, especially when they claim that SecuROM is integral to Bon Voyage? If it is going to leave the software on our computers even after the game is installed, then it is not integral; instead BV is dependent on it. There's a huge difference, especially since the latter requires not only EA to inform us of the install, but to inform us that SecuROM is part of the software's operational requirements. They were allowed to say that SecuROM was included, but they broke the law by hiding everything from us and allowing the installation of software the FTC labels as illegal. And that's another important point to get across to all the naysayers on the EA BBS claiming that SecuROM isn't damaging systems: Whether or not systems have been damaged because of SecuROM is not the point - EA broke the damn law! That's all that matters, and THAT affected everyone who purchased and installed any of the SecuROM-inclusive titles.

As for what you said, morriganrant, I agree with you mostly, except the higher ups weren't the ones programming the game. You'd think at some point someone in the company would've said, "Um, sir? Is this really a good idea?" You'd think someone that actually mattered in that company would've heard about SecuROM's previous woes. PR, legal, marketing, programming... someone. I dunno. I still think EA is more to blame than Sony. Sure, they made the product, but EA made the choice to give it to us without warning, and now is unwilling to make a sincere effort to apologize and help us fix this. They must have mighty big rugs in EA headquarters, that's all I can say.

The main reason I say SecuROM is malicious is the fact that it shuts off firewalls without our knowledge.  This leaves machines vulnerable to malware. 

The rootkit in SecuROM fits the definition of an application level rootkit.  It's my contention that we have an IT professional's compiracy that seeks to change the definition or separate other types rootkits of what has been traditionally known as rootkits to take the teeth out of other forms of rootkits given that Sony's kernal level rootkit has a very bad reputation and has come to everyone's attention. They probably got together at some IT convention think tank meeting and decided to take this approach as many software companies desire to use DRM technology for copy protection and don't want the other types of rootkits associated with the very nasty kernal rootkit.

I expect some time in the future we will be receiving a little post card in the mail informing us of our eligibility in a class action suit against EA/Sony over this matter and whether or not we want to take part in it.   I am beginning to see the second wave of complaints at the bbs as so many had forgone installing BV until that patch was released.  And then there is all those offline customers who haven't even purchased it yet since it's only been released for a month.  The nerve of EA not to remove their defective game off the shelves, if not for the sake of it's customers, at the very least to save their own behinds.   So EA has more complaints coming down the pike.  It's not over until its over.

[morriganrant]

It is EA though and not just The Sims 2 branch. SecuRom 7.x is on many EA games now, they've started to put it on all of them. Would The Sims 2 branch have been able to stop it from being put everywhere? I doubt it, this is a big financial deal for them. We may have a chance if enough of us complain, that does not mean that they'll switch back all EA games but they may just switch back to SafeDisc for The Sims to get us all to shut up, I don't see how it would be financially beneficial for them that way though, it would probably cost less to only pay one company for their piracy protection services. How many are in on the big deals before they happen? In most cases everyone else just has to flow with it after it happens. I'm not saying EA is not a fault, they most certainly are, if only for being completely blind when it came to Sonys past mishaps, I am saying that The Sims 2 branch may not have had that pull and maybe if they did, how many of these people still play games and visit gaming sites in their spare time? For some, the hobby dwindles, you don't spend the time on it that you once did. Someone is at fault, they did not use their heads and did not do sufficient research, otherwise they would have seen it for the horrible idea that it was, unless the focus on the money was just too much for them. They probably had a deal, EA already puts games on Sony systems, I'm thinking there was some sort of "let's make a deal" situation and all sense was lost in money grubbing. When you get that high up, you loose sight of what exactly is holding you up, in this case a whole lot of angry gamers, hopefully their tower is shuddering enough for them to take notice that their foundation is crumbling.

[jolrei]

We may have a chance if enough of us complain, that does not mean that they'll switch back all EA games but they may just switch back to SafeDisc for The Sims to get us all to shut up, I don't see how it would be financially beneficial for them that way though, it would probably cost less to only pay one company for their piracy protection services.

Yeah, well, that would make sense if the solution they chose actually did what was intended - stop piracy of the games.  In the case of TS2, far from discouraging "arrr!" versions, it has positively encouraged even those of us who own legit CD/DVD copies to download torrent versions and no-CD cracks, just to avoid having screw-u-ROM on our systems.  It is therefore doing the opposite of what EA contracted Sony to provide.  It costs them more to have the privacy protection than not have it, because they are now paying Sony for the "benefit" of having their former customers arrrr! the program.

Conclusion: their entire policy/strategy regarding protection is counterintuitive and made of FAIL.