Cleaning up Characters?

[Kigan]

I've heard about a lot of problems being caused by having too many characters in the neighborhood. I've been playing with a carefully merged neighborhood that consists of Pleasantview, Strangetown, and Veronaville attached as Downtowns to a main Neighborhood. This was done by a friend who learned the way to do this without causing problems. He also did the same with the Seasons Neighborhood. I'm not as good at all that as he is.

I've spent a lot of time making up a neighborhood with plenty of people to interact with. Needless to say, I've spent a lot of time making up this neighborhood so that, with each family I play, it is a different experience. Plus the sims friends have made to add to it.

Now, I looked into my Characters folder to see what sort of numbers I'm at, and the number is well over 3000. From everything I've read, that is quite bad. So I went into SimPE, and see duplicates of some sims, some that have no connections to people (At least if the identification SimPE gave them is right). I'm afraid that something bad is going to happen to this neighborhood if I don't get it cleaned up, but I don't know how to go about that. I'm especially afraid of losing one family that I've worked a lot on. They currently have 4 grown kids, one being an alien (I couldn't believe it) and 3 graduated college. All married, with their own kids, careers, etc. If I could package them up safely for use later without losing memories, pictures (large photo album), etc. I wouldn't be so worried. But I know they'll lose their friendships, among other things. Which would in turn screw up their memories of those people and pets they have met. They are the one family I couldn't stand to lose all the work from. The others I'd do whatever it took to wipe out their memories as far as outside contact to safely move them, but this family is much more difficult to deal with should a problem arise because they have been the most active.

Getting to my point, what can I do to either clean up the character files or safely move the important families? At this rate, recreating using a safe process doesn't sound so bad, especially since I was late to finding out about the Tour Guide/Unsavory Charlatan thing. I just want to be able to keep going without worrying that the game might really screw up to the point of losing it all, and I have the time to use whatever process necessary to clean it up or recreate.

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm especially afraid of losing one family that I've worked a lot on. They currently have 4 grown kids, one being an alien (I couldn't believe it) and 3 graduated college. All married, with their own kids, careers, etc. If I could package them up safely for use later without losing memories, pictures (large photo album), etc. I wouldn't be so worried.

Impossible. A played family with outside contact cannot be packaged intact without transporting the carnage to a new neighborhood, and the process would still wreck their memories.

But I know they'll lose their friendships, among other things. Which would in turn screw up their memories of those people and pets they have met. They are the one family I couldn't stand to lose all the work from. The others I'd do whatever it took to wipe out their memories as far as outside contact to safely move them, but this family is much more difficult to deal with should a problem arise because they have been the most active.

Getting to my point, what can I do to either clean up the character files or safely move the important families?

If you really feel it's worth the effort to save, you can start by carefully following the instructions in DELETED 2: Electric Boogaloo to carefully remove each and every last dud one by one, likely crosschecking in-game dozens of times to make sure you're killing the right one.

[Kigan]

Hmm...I'll give that a try. I really feel that it is worth the effort to save because it would take just as much effort to start them over from scratch again. Getting all the default neighborhoods isn't that big of a problem, but remaking every family and putting this family back through life would probably take just as long.

I didn't think they could be safely moved as-is. At least I know how to put them back into CAS if things don't work out.

[doren]

At the moment you haven't got any problems, you only fear that you will have problems in the future, is this right?

I would suggest regular backups. It is a very large number of character files, but I don't thinik that there is a limit where the game invariably blows up. Trying to solve problems before they come up does not sound like a good idea.

I think that it is a pity that it is not possible to move sims to another neighbourhood (maybe even the entire population) -  I played with the same sims (and their offspring) for about two years now and also worry that the neighbourhood will become overcrowded eventually - but I decided for myself that I carry on playing and see what happens. I make backups. I am safe.

[cwykes]

I have to say that I made a huge mess trying to clean up my favourite hood and managed to lose 6 months of play by corrupting the neighbourhoodmanager file.  I'd have been better off not doing it at all.  The problem was that I thought I knew what I was doing... I did my research and when I thought I understood it, I went ahead and cleaned up. Result - hood went back 6 months in time.  So I learned some more and cleaned up that version, but I'd still been too impatient and deleted things I shouldn't have deleted (genetics files).  This was in the days before Pes wrote Electric Boogaloo 2 and put deletion options on the lotdebugger.  You'd be a lot safer using that than I was doing it the old fashioned way, but it's your choice.  I'd say, think about it some more and play safely from now on.  Never move occupied lots into the sim bin or delete sims in game and keep regular backups!  I'd definitely suggest you practice cleaning up another hood first!  Maybe someone will write an good cleanup plugin in SimPE so you don't have to load up the whole freaking game to clean up the files.

[Kigan]

Unfortunately, it is no longer true to say I don't have any problems. One of my Subhoods crashes now any time I try to load it, through the neighborhood screen or by any other means. Whether or not this is related to the number of characters, I can't say. After all SimPE is completely useless with BV right now. Can't even get into it.

So I've done what I can to start a new neighborhood in which I will try to control the population better. However, I'm even limited in setting that up, since I have to resurrect Bella to get Pleasantview as I want it. The other three were easy once my friend typed up very detailed instructions on how he took care of it the first time. With the process he used, it didn't create any extra characters like are created if you package a house with outside ties. Something to do with putting all the connected sims (by relation or friendship) on the same lot, and as for those with graves at their houses: putting those in their inventories to be put back on the lot later. Using that method, his own game is garbage file free. No extra characters. Mine probably had more to do with what I didn't know early on. I made mistakes, and learned from them. However, I didn't learn fast enough it seems.

Thanks for the advice anyway. I guess this time around I'll just have to be much more cautious. I swear, I don't see how it is they released a game with so many problems and don't even acknowledge them unless they came with a recent expansion, such as the tour guide and charlatan multiplication issue.

[jsalemi]

So I've done what I can to start a new neighborhood in which I will try to control the population better. However, I'm even limited in setting that up, since I have to resurrect Bella to get Pleasantview as I want it.

Resurrecting the Pleasantview Bella is a VBT, since the character file is missing all kinds of important info, and will eventually lead to your hood going up in a BFBVFS. None of the dead characters in the base PV are designed to be resurrected -- the only ones that are safe to resurrect are the Tricinou family (or however it's spelled) in the NL Downtown.

[doren]

Resurrecting the Pleasantview Bella is a VBT, since the character file is missing all kinds of important info, and will eventually lead to your hood going up in a BFBVFS. None of the dead characters in the base PV are designed to be resurrected -- the only ones that are safe to resurrect are the Tricinou family (or however it's spelled) in the NL Downtown.

I read that some changes were made with one of the expansions (OFB?), but I don't think that this is true for all the dead characters. The ones who have gravestones are safe I believe.  I resurrected Darleen Dreamer a long time ago and never had any problems. However, at that time there were two character files for Darleen (as well as for Bella or Skip Broke), which is what might have changed by now.

[jsalemi]

No -- the two character files come with the base game, and never change.  I repeat, resurrecting Pleasantview (or Veronaville or Strangetown) characters that come with the base game is a VBT. The ability to resurrect anyone didn't come along until Uni was released, so none of those characters were ever designed to be resurrected. Doing so will eventually blow up your hood, especially if you attempt to breed any of them.

[cwykes]

just in case you haven't seen it, you can download all the original hoods linked together instead of making your own.  Thread in Peasantry.  Any other version of doing it probably isn't safe.

Don't give up on BV yet.  Yours may be one of the problems that gets fixed in patch.  If your game won't load, do check out the general area the problem is in - assuming it's your game files is overly pessimistic.  Downloads that don't work with BV are the first suspect.  Will the hood load if you take out the downloads? Will other hoods load?   Will a virgin game load and play....

[Kigan]

I didn't know bringing Bella back (I don't say resurrecting, because she isn't dead) was a bad thing. What problems does she cause? I certainly don't try to breed her, I just like having her around so she can make friends with some of my sims. I never noticed a problem with her at all, and thanks to my friend she was around for a LONG time. I think he brought her back for me around the time Uni came out.

I took out every single download in my game, hacks first and then the rest, and the subhood still won't load. It just crashes every single time. I can play anywhere else, just not there. As a test, I loaded up Riverblossom, connected all the places (Uni, Downtown, etc), and played for a bit. Not a problem. Tried to go back in there, crash. This only started very recently, since I first posted.

[jolrei]

The other three were easy once my friend typed up very detailed instructions on how he took care of it the first time. With the process he used, it didn't create any extra characters like are created if you package a house with outside ties. Something to do with putting all the connected sims (by relation or friendship) on the same lot, and as for those with graves at their houses: putting those in their inventories to be put back on the lot later. Using that method, his own game is garbage file free. No extra characters. Mine probably had more to do with what I didn't know early on. I made mistakes, and learned from them. However, I didn't learn fast enough it seems.

Not sure what this paragraph is about.  Are you talking about moving sims from one hood to another hood?  This is also considered a VBT due to, as you noted, garbage files, dangling SWAFs, borked memories, and ultimate BFBVBS.  Generally, it is suggested that you clone your sims (admittedly the latest SimPE is not BV friendly) and recreate them from CAS for the new hood.  Naturally, it is your choice to use (or not) your friend's method, but you may want to read up on this on other threads here before attempting.

Of course, if that's not what your paragraph is about, please feel free to ignore.

[Kigan]

The way he did it put everyone together on one lot, so that relationships weren't lost and other such problems didn't occur. He doesn't have BV and used this method quite some time back. For my own curiosity, we looked into his game with SimPE and there wasn't a single garbage file in it.

There is one thing I don't really understand: What about the number of character files causes the problems? Does it have anything to do with things like RAM?

[jsalemi]

All we can say is that you've both just been very lucky (or maybe not, since your hoods are starting to become a BFBVFS).

In any case, we're telling you what folks who know the internals of game as well as (and sometimes better than) EAxis have found to be true:
Don't resurrect dead PV characters.
Don't move sims from one hood to another.
Don't delete sims from the sim bin.
Don't move occupied lots from one hood to the other.


If you chose to to argue with us that these things aren't bad because your friend said so, then fine -- don't come here for help anymore.  Go back to the BBS where the sheep all believe those things are ok to do, and stop bothering us.

[Kigan]

No need to be rude. I'm presenting the facts of what has been done and asking for help. I've explained what has happened, and how it is likely my mistakes causing problems now. Mistakes such as moving a household from a main hood to a subhood.

Now, while looking for something else mentioned here, I noticed information on safely reviving those PV characters, and that it required a little work. But that isn't what this is about so I'm not going into it.

I don't know what your problem is, I'm just trying to fix what I've probably broken and understand things. My friend, who works with computer programming (including a LOT of game programming) for a living, has delved into the Sims2 programming a lot, fascinated by the mistakes that were made. That probably has something to do with his processes, which I can't even begin to understand. Regardless, what he did doesn't matter here. I'm not saying he is right or wrong, or that you are right or wrong. If you can find where I stated that, please let me know because I get real pissed off when people put words in my mouth or twist what I say.

Now, perhaps we can talk of more useful things, like what can be done to save my neighborhood from mistakes I made such as moving households or deleting sims before I was aware of the issues that causes.

[jsalemi]

That's what we're trying to tell you -- you did things wrong, there is no real fix, and your hood is probably beyond redemption. And rude is the normal response to people who keep saying the same thing over and over and ignoring (or arguing about) the advice they're getting.

[Kigan]

Hmm...I don't see myself repeating things. Expanding on them, yes. Giving more details, yes. Repeating, no. The fact is, things were done differently than are being assumed by you, and when I try to explain it, suddenly I'm being repetitive and argumentative. Then I ask questions completely different from what I've already said, and get no answer because you are too busy talking to me like I'm clueless to listen to someone who has created a version of the sims 2 on his computer that has many fixes EA and Maxis refuse to make. And the ONLY reason I don't have that version is because he is afraid of possible long term effects or, more recently, SecuROM.

You see, I took the advice of someone who can delve into programming and fix it. He knows how. And on his computer, he has fixed what he calls "idiotic and stupid mistakes" that they made.

Now, I will repeat one thing, and that is the question I stated earlier: What about the large number of character files hurts the game? I don't understand it all like my friend does, so I don't get what causes the "BFBVFS" as you have named it.

[Ness]

If you value your friend's opinion and skills so highly, why aren't you talking to them instead of people at MATY?

If everything that is said to you is going to be rejected with "but my friend said...", what really is the point of continuing to ask questions?

[Kigan]

Because he has more important things to do than fix this problem of mine. Like, I don't know, his job. Besides, right now he is busy working on something that will get rid of that POS SecuROM.

The reason I mention what he said is to give you the entire situation, including the changes he made to the less than perfect method I've seen here of merging the neighborhoods. I figure that way we don't waste time with "You shouldn't have done this or that" because of knowledge you have, which isn't the same as the situation of my game. I can see how that worked like a charm, since now we are arguing over something pointless instead of working with the information I'm TRYING to give and attempting to fix my game.

[jsalemi]

Oh, so you'd rather bother people who also have, oh, I don't know, jobs, who do this out of love of the game, on their own time, rather than bother the person who really fucked up your game in the first  place with his oh-so-perfect method of merging hoods that he won't share with anyone else in the world?  Unlike the modders and others here who do share their knowledge and experience about what to do and not do and what needs fixing in the game to make it better? And then you have the nerve to say  that you're trying not to waste our time because of the knowledge we have, which isn't the same as the situation in your game? Then how the fucking hell do you expect us to help you fix something someone else fucked up when we don't even know how they fucked it up in the first place?

If your friend knows so much more than everyone here, get him to come here and explain it so we can all bask in the brilliance of his knowledge and insight.  Until then, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Kigan]

But he isn't putting himself out there as you do and gets very annoyed when everyone who plays the game comes to him for help while he is working on his own jobs that PAY him. He didn't fuck up the game, I DID! If you would listen, you'd have gotten that several posts back! He won't share it because it requires a lot of work to make sure every single bit of information is correct. Most people don't want to do all that work and just ask him to do it. He doesn't have time to teach people. He took the time to check every single detail of every single character and fix it. He tried to share that method in the past, but too many people complained that it was too complicated and he got frustrated with people wanting it to be easier and gave up.

I'm trying to explain it, but you ARE NOT LISTENING and won't even answer my damn question about WHY the large number of characters is a problem!

He won't come here for one reason: He doesn't like people who only believe in the form of knowledge the possess and won't listen to it when people present a conflicting view. Dare to present a conflicting view, and I get "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out."

Now, I am done arguing about this. I am going to start over here, and you can keep banging your head against the wall of a useless argument, or we can work on my game. I suppose the best thing is ASK ME ACTUAL QUESTIONS, and I will do my best to provide the information. I can call him and get information on his process, if he is willing to tell me the depths of it. He didn't give me complete instructions as I thought. He is afraid my messing with the game will mess it up at the very beginning of a new neighborhood.

So, enough of an argument that is not going to serve any purpose. Why don't we try to do something constructive. At least with his tinkering in the game, he plans to come up with a version of the game to present to EA and Maxis that doesn't have so many problems. May not help you or me right now, but it is working towards something useful.

[mitchellcjs]

Whine whine whine.  Too many characters... I found why this is bad by SEARCHING THE FORUMS.  Do so or sod off.  Bitch bitch bitch You come here asking for HELP.  These people try to HELP you, and you throw a hissy.  They are right, your friend is wrong.  Just because he doesn't see it doesn't mean its not there.  The people on these forums have been nothing but helpful to anyone who RESPECTFULLY states problem,  listens/reads solution, and posts INTELLIGENT questions about solutions.  If this is not your experience, look in the mirror for the problem.

[Kigan]

Whine whine whine.  Too many characters... I found why this is bad by SEARCHING THE FORUMS.  Do so or sod off.  Bitch bitch bitch You come here asking for HELP.  These people try to HELP you, and you throw a hissy.  They are right, your friend is wrong.  Just because he doesn't see it doesn't mean its not there.  The people on these forums have been nothing but helpful to anyone who RESPECTFULLY states problem,  listens/reads solution, and posts INTELLIGENT questions about solutions.  If this is not your experience, look in the mirror for the problem.

I didn't expect someone to provide an example to what I was saying as to why people avoid this place. I state the problem, get some help, provide what is wrong with that in relation to my own game, and a fight starts because the answer didn't work. Your thing about who is right and wrong is exactly why he won't come here. You only believe one thing and find it impossible that someone else could be right in a different way.

You know what, forget it. Apparently I'm not going to get help here. I'm just wrong, according to you, and that is all that matters. Just forget it. I should have known better than to come here. I should have known I wouldn't actually get a solution, just have it pointed out WHY i'm wrong.

[jsalemi]

I've been managing programming projects and programmers for over 15 years.  You know what we call programmers who believe that only they have the one true way, don't share their knowledge with others, don't have time to 'teach people', and do things so complicated they can't explain them to anyone else, but believe they're 'right in a different way, and then promise to come up with wonderful new ways to do things someday and present it to those who wrote the code in the first place?  We call them unemployed.

It still comes down to the same issue -- you asked for help, we gave it to you, you said it doesn't apply to your game because your friend did something different, and then expect help when no one here has a clue what he did different.  You want our help?  Reinstall your game from scratch, use the hacks/mods/techniques from here, and then come here for support when they don't work.  If you use methods that are 'right in a different way', then go to the source of that rightness and get his help.  If he's to busy to help, then you're pretty much screwed.

[Kigan]

Not that it is any of your business, but he works with the government and has for a good many years (more than the 19 I've been alive), now working exclusively on computers.

He doesn't believe his was is the "one true way". You do realize you are doing the same thing. There is no coming together to discuss methods, just he is wrong and you are right and it ends there. That is why he won't come here or try to share it. He gets told he is wrong or that it is too difficult. That or someone attempts it and kills their game, blaming him. So he sticks to his own tinkering and fixing, leaving annoyances out of the loop so he can actually get things down outside his job.

What he did differently doesn't apply to my current problem. I've tried to tell you that. The problems started when I was playing. It has nothing to do with his method of merging the neighborhoods. I don't know how we got so far off topic with that.