*! THIS LOT HAS NON-LEVEL EDGES !* explanation

[FlareStorm]

I just can't find a n00b-friendly explanation to what this means.  Many uploads in http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/board,20.0.html this forum are flagged with it.

I think this explains something that has been frustrating me for a while.  I often can't stick lots right next door to each other, even though they look like they are perfectly on the same flat slope.  I would like to know how to avoid/fix this

a) By "level-edges" what do you mean? Level with the street? Is the "edge" defined as just one tile?

2) From what I can figure out, placing a lot with these "non-level edges" is probably the reason why I can't place lots next to each other.  And once you place an offending lot down, there's no fixing it. Is this correct?

f) What is there is a lot I must have that doesn't have leveled edges? Can I place it in a working neighborhood, fix it, and move it to the lot bin so it works properly?

Thanks for any help.

[Emma]

It means that the lot has been built on a terrain which is not completely flat with the street. If you place a lot with non-level edges it can warp your neighbourhood terrain and cause the roads to look really wonky and even large pools of water to appear.

You can flatten terrain by using a large flat occupied lot template and edging it along the road. It doesn't work with an empty lot template in my experience. Just ensure you have the lot completely flat and build a big box using the wall tool on it.

You can avoid it by using completely flat terrains such as Sedona and Viper Canyon in your actual lot building. Prevention is better than cure.

[J. M. Pescado]

The "edge" is the borders of the lot. In a lot with level edges, all of the points on the outer edge of the lot are exactly the same elevation. You can prove this by flattening the entire lot using the "level lot" tool. There is no way to fix a lot that does not have nonlevel edges: the entire lot must be rebuilt from scratch. Installing a lot with non-level edges into your neighborhood will deform the terrain, making it impossible to place lots next to each other, and such lots can basically never be moved to anything that isn't the exact same position on the exact same terrain. They are therefore unsuitable for downloading.

There is no obvious way to tell from any pictures that are not zoomed in very closely and showing their build/buy grids that a lot is properly flat. Therefore, you should always install untested lots into a junk neighborhood which you don't care about, so you can make sure the lot edges are flat. As you discovered, a lot wit FLAT edges can be placed flush with another lot. A lot with a warped edge cannot be placed next to another lot on at least one side.

Again, it is impossible to fix such a lot. It is permanently and irreversibly corrupted. Do not download these lots.

[FlareStorm]

Using the "Junk Neighborhood" technique, should all 4 edges be leveled to the street level?

You can avoid it by using completely flat terrains such as Sedona and Viper Canyon in your actual lot building. Prevention is better than cure.

That's kinda what I was hoping not to hear    All these wonderful .sc4 terrains, but 70% isn't going to be usable.

[J. M. Pescado]

Using the "Junk Neighborhood" technique, should all 4 edges be leveled to the street level?

They should start that way. Note that the CENTER of the lot doesn't matter, only the edges count. You can deform it as much as you want off the edges.

However, note that this CANNOT be applied to an existing lot. It is IMPOSSIBLE to fix a lot which is NOT level. You would have to manually rebuild the lot from scratch.

[FlareStorm]

Is this a valid tactic?

Get a lot
Place the lot in a stupid junk neighborhood that I don't care if it gets mucked up
Go into the lot and level the edges (assuming the wall placement and such make this possible)
Move the fixed lot to the bin
Go to the neighborhood I care about, place the fixed lot from the bin

[ZephyrZodiac]

I think what JM and Emma are saying is that if the lot has non-level edges, it cannot be fixed. 

[Mirelly]

 Like ZZ just said, you can't change the elevation of a lot's edges, period

[ZephyrZodiac]

If you check, though, and find the lot's edges are ok, then there could be one or two other things preventing you from putting your lot next to another one.  Firstly, check in the Decorations mode to see if there are any decorations on the lot and remove them.  Secondly, sometimes trying to place the lot works if you go to the main menu, and then return to your hood.  Only sometimes, though!

[Emma]

Using the "Junk Neighborhood" technique, should all 4 edges be leveled to the street level?

You can avoid it by using completely flat terrains such as Sedona and Viper Canyon in your actual lot building. Prevention is better than cure.

That's kinda what I was hoping not to hear    All these wonderful .sc4 terrains, but 70% isn't going to be usable.

You can still use those other hilly terrains but there will be warping. Even if you use completely flat lots. FYI a few of the maxis lots in the lot bin have non-level edges too. I can't remember which ones now but most of the ones added by recent EP's are quite unusuable. I am thinking of rebuilding them from scratch so they don't warp the neighbourhood terrain.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Well, that would be good - if there are any that are actually playable!  I stopped trying with the G001 lots and make my own there now.  And as for OFB.......it's quicker to build new than try and alter those so they play well.

I just wonder if whoever builds these lots for the game ever actually tries them out with actual sims living in them.

So maybe, if you rebuild them, you'll make the interiors have doors that open the right way so sims will use them, bathrooms that sims don't get stuck inside when another sim enters, bedrooms that will take a double bed, and kids' rooms that are bigger than a broom cupboard......

[J. M. Pescado]

If you check, though, and find the lot's edges are ok, then there could be one or two other things preventing you from putting your lot next to another one.  Firstly, check in the Decorations mode to see if there are any decorations on the lot and remove them.  Secondly, sometimes trying to place the lot works if you go to the main menu, and then return to your hood.  Only sometimes, though!

While lot decorations can potentially cause blockages, the PRIMARY culprit is warped edges either on one lot, or the other lot. It is possible for a lot's edges to be subtly warped in ways that are not immediately visible to the eye, unless you look REALLY closely, but can become quite apparent if you use the FLATTEN LOT button that was added around Seasons or ZOMGPETS.

[ZephyrZodiac]

And there are some Maxian base game lots that no matter what you do, you just can't put right the errors - one in Pleasantview that always bugs me is the little shack in the woods - I mean, how can something so small be so bad!  And the empty lot next door to the Summerdreams in Veronaville, every time I've attempted to redesign it and change the position of the staircase, there are floor-tiles which cannot be carpeted, even though it is possible to place anything else you like on them with moveobjects on.  And quite a few Maxis lots that are side-by-side, but if you try moving one of them into the lot bin and then back again in order to create a duplicate, then you can't move it back to its original position.  So, although both original lots appear to be flat, obviously one at least is not.

[Batelle]

Cyclonesue is really bad about non-level edges. I love the look of her Age of Industry buildings in a neighborhood, but they screw up a terrain something fierce. 

I've stopped using Maxian lots at all these days, except for the pine sided one by the pond that came with Family Fun Stuff.  I have so many problems redecorating that it's just not worth the hassle, especially since most of them can't be played without some sort of revision.  I also prefer small, flat, densely plotted neighborhoods so I can ruin an entire block with a non-level lot.

ps.  Squee! ZephyrZodiac!

[ZephyrZodiac]

Hi! 

You'd love my prefabs, then - and they fit together perfectly, no bad edges!

If you haven't got it, there's a great 1x1 lot over at MTS2.  It's by Damian19942 and called Industrial Beginning.  I turned it into a row of studios, and then into a row of tiny "backtoback" terraces.  You have to be careful with trees as they don't show up correctly if they are side by side, but otherwise they play really well, and you can use the roof on the studio.  I didn't build upwards on the terraces, because those kind of workers' cottages were only ever "two up two down", and I had to get rid of the garage which is the ground floor of the original, but then again, those kind of houses don't have garages.  I know there is a way of making street parking, but with such small lots it isn't feasible as the school bus or the pool car couldn't get in.

[reggikko]

ps.  Squee! ZephyrZodiac!

I see your squee and raise you two Yeah, Baby!'s. Good to see you, ZZ.

[ZephyrZodiac]

Thanks!  I think I'm quite glad to be back, even though I miss a few familiar faces...

[BastDawn]

You can avoid it by using completely flat terrains such as Sedona and Viper Canyon in your actual lot building. Prevention is better than cure.

That's kinda what I was hoping not to hear    All these wonderful .sc4 terrains, but 70% isn't going to be usable.

No, it's not that bad: use the Sedona and Viper Canyon terrains for building, then put the finished house in your lot bin and it can go to any neighborhood you like for the actual gameplay.

[ZephyrZodiac]

And if you don't want desert then just change the terrain type before you create the hood.  But there are some other terrains that work too, although there may be some bits you need to avoid.

Also, be careful where you place the lot - there are some lots in Veronaville for example which are placed against a hillside and if you use the Veronaville template to make a hood, and put a lot in one of these places, it's very difficult to actually stay where you want to be - the slightest move of the mouse and you're 1,000 sim feet above the lot.  Also, if you put them against a hillside you get a rather ugly cliff-face at the back of your lot and no matter how much terrain paint you put on it, you can't really get it to look like anything but the side of a crater on the moon.

[J. M. Pescado]

Changing terrain type is trivial, simply enter the code from the neighborhood screen, although sometimes you have to pick up and replop all the lots in the neighborhood so that the change "takes" on all lots. Do not lotbin!

[ZephyrZodiac]

Although if you create a hood just to build on, and use one of the template hoods, there won't be any houses.

[Zazazu]

And there are some Maxian base game lots that no matter what you do, you just can't put right the errors - one in Pleasantview that always bugs me is the little shack in the woods - I mean, how can something so small be so bad! 

My very first Sim family (TS1 & 2) the Tests called that lot their TS2 home. It was built up through the days to accommodate their 11 children (no more than 6 at a time, this was before the shiny no-limit hacks) into a huge mansion similar to the one they had in TS1. It wasn't too bad, but then I never tried to move it around. And, of course, the decoration/furniture choices were completely nonsensical. That's Maxis for you. I don't know about the other Maxis houses. I think I've only played two others.

Yes, non-level edges are bad news baby, and part of why I don't share most of my lots. Other than Monopoly, all my custom terrains are very hilly with beaches, etc, and a level lot is a pipe dream. Urban Paradise has some level blocks, but not many at all. The Free Love Cult hub-house is incredibly sloped. The left side as you face the back of the lot is almost a 45^o angle. Carpools and the bus just sit there for the whole hour until they disappear in a poof as they can't navigate the street. Luckily, Richard's helicopter ride as cult leader leaves right away. I can't take that sound effect for long.

[Khan of Wyrms]

I just wanted to point out that lots with non-level edges can also be used to shape the terrain of the neighborhood to make a contour that is not level.  In fact, this action is the only method I know of to purposefully alter the terrain of the neighborhood after it has been created.  It may be one the stupidest methods anyone could ever design for such a thing, but I have used it since the beginning, considering that it seems to be the only one.  The geniuses who designed the game did not include any useful tools for anyone to accomplish this, while simple logic would seem to suggest this feature might be desirable.  One must ponder why anyone might create such a thing as TS2 without adding even a simple neighborhood elevation tool set. It is truly incomprehensible to me, and really is almost my number one disappointment with the game.

To be certain, altering the terrain by moving uneven lots around can result in undesirable terrain effects, but these things are almost always correctable in a similar manner to that which produced the terrain damage.  It can be like a sort of broken puzzle at times, especially when roads go vertical or get twisted, or an intersection folds over.  In my experience, it always remains at least somewhat workable and repairable with the right pieces.

I would, theoretically, use any lot I liked regardless of the slope of the edges, within reason.  It would certainly be nice to know about this fact before placing the lot, however, the mere existence of uneven edges does not bother me even a little.  Just a note, lots that are perfectly flat can be just as damaging to much of the real estate in some neighborhoods if used in the wrong location.  Basically, this means that they must go on terrain which is already flat, or another place where the amount of radical edge justification is tolerable.  It is in this way that uneven lots can been seen as actually superior to flat lots in certain instances, since the effect of justifying the uneven lot with the neighborhood terrain can be much smoother than a flat lot.  In fact, the game actually justifies the edges of an uneven lot with the surrounding terrain, whereas a flat lot is placed like a bulldozer went before it, the process of justifying the perfectly level edges resulting in a sharp, unnatural, mechanical slice in the terrain and often an angular fold in the surface of a road.

Of course, few things are as industrial and functional as perfect level, and I can certainly appreciate that aspect of flat lots.  Still, I have variegated terrain and I am not afraid to use it.

[ZephyrZodiac]

You're right, as I said before, sometimes you get the most horrible cliffs which just can't be made to look good!

One thing that maybe lot creators who have made lots in an elevated area could do is maybe add a note to tell people which terrain it was built in, and if possible whereabouts on that terrain, although if you know which terrain, and therefore if you have that hood or not, it should be possible to work it out from screenshots.  (and if you don't have the hood, and don't want the problems it will bring with it, save it until you decide to create a hood using that template.

[Emma]

That sounds like the old Sims 1 neighbourhoods-the lots were stuck in place and if a house was built in a certain place, that's where it stayed!