Need input on designing a new medieval sims career

[angelyne]

Hey guys,

I've started work on a new Sims career.  I've tentatively named it the Cottar Career.  A cottar is the lowest of the peasantry and as such does the dirtiest and nastiest jobs there is.  And believe me the jobs are nasty as can be.  Nasty, brutal, boring, or dangerous, and sometimes all of the above. I plan to put a disclaimer asking people who have a good imagination but who are easily grossed out to abstain.  I've got the descriptions all written out and I am pretty pleased with them.

Obviously this career is meant for a medieval type of neighborhood.  This career don't follow a typical career path but is rather a succession of different jobs.  I tried to arrange them in an order that makes a sort of sense.  For example my level one starts at the farm, and then progresses to a city job and then to a job in a castle.  Obviously all of these would have been either incredibly low paid or not paid at all, with very long hours.  Anyway, here is the input I'm asking for.  Considering the low status of these jobs, what kind of pay scheme should I devise.  I'm aiming for dirt poor.  I don't want the game to be impossible either, but I don't want these peasants to have it easy.  They should be struggling to pay their rent, have money for nothing but the absolute bare necessities, and have to try to find time, in their 12 hours a day job, to grow food, cause that's the only way they can afford to eat.  I'm counting on the starting out bonus to provide a new family with a house (hovel) and the necessities.  So this won't be like the poverty challenge where you start out dirt poor and finish rich.  It's more like you start out dirt poor and you finish dirt poor.

What kind of pay rate would accomplish this goal, without making it impossible.

Secondly.  In medieval times women and men didn't do the same jobs, for the most part.  So to reflect this I made the jobs for women and men completely different. (double the work for me).  The game allows me to enter different description for male and female.  However the requirements for advancement are shared.  If I leave things the way the are, my requirements won't unnecessarily make sense for the jobs.  Should I make two different careers, one for female and one for males?  Or should I leave it one career even though the requirements make no sense?  If you were to use this career, which option would you prefer?

And last but not least.  Does this sound at all interesting to anybody?

[ingeli]

It absolutely sounds interesting. I have avoided jobs altogether for my medieval sims, they either dont work out of their homes, or work in someones business. The custom careers I saw was totally unreal, like starting poor and becoming a king.. rrm, as this would have happened to anyone, but the odd fairytale person? Your idea seems much better. What I wish for, would also be medieval "versions" of the modern careers, like medieval military, medieval physician, and so on. Then I would use them for SOME of my sims.

[dizzy]

To be realistic, it should probably start with $1 a day jobs and eventually reach $50 a day. The hours should actually be shorter, though. 

[Marhis]

I like it!

Maybe the pay rate should be like that of teen/elder careers: it's a sort of minimum wage, quite close to starvation, if it's the only source of income. In my experience, I had a CAS elder with a child, and having them both survive was quite difficult, with the elder income only.

In my actual hood (medieval theme) I don't use custom careers, but pretend they have a compatible medieval job (e.g. a city guard is in low ranks of law enforcement, while a palace guard is in highest ranks, etc.). I keep peasants artificially low in income, to keep their role, but so far it's not necessary: husband + wife + child in a little house (less than 50§ bills) live well with the income of a vice squad husband (the wife doesn't have a job). Probably a top-rank income in your scheme would be that of a cadet, or a security guard.

For the male/female difference in careers: I would prefer a single career both for males and females, but I think I understand your difficulties. Maybe some sort of arrangement in requirements/job descriptions? Sorry I can't be of much help.

[witch]

Can you show us some examples? It does sound interesting. Kind of like the untouchables cast in India.

[angelyne]

Can you show us some examples? It does sound interesting. Kind of like the untouchables cast in India.

Certainly.  I assume you mean a type of job ? 

Here is one.  I've preceded every job description with a short blurb that touches on why you changed job.  This gives the career path some continuity instead of being just a string of unrelated jobs :

Job: Whipping Boy (previous job spitboy)

That accident with the spit was really unfortunate but it's not your fault that other spitboy was so clumsy.  Certainly didn't justify that fat cook throwing you out of the kitchen.
But it's for the best, because in your new job you will get to serve the Royal Children! What a great opportunity for advancement!
As we all know, the monarch rules by divine right. For those of you without education, let me inform: the king or queen is chosen by God to rule, and therefore any heir to the throne who will later become a king or queen must also be divine. Of course, this means that it would be highly illegal, not to say most undesirable, to chastise, clip, whack or slipper a young prince or princess for any infraction of the rules.
As royal whipping boy, you will be fed, housed and clothed by the royal court - all you have to do is make yourself available to touch your toes whenever the sweet prince or princess does anything bad. By taking the punishment of a royal caning on behalf of the heir, you can console yourself by knowing that you are protecting the royal backside. The secreting of a wad of parchment down the trousers whenever you hear the order 'Get me the whipping boy!' is not permitted.

Dizzy, that was pretty much the pay scheme I was thinking but I guess it will have to be play tested to see if it's doable. 

Ingeli:  While being a little more period than the unrealistic peasant-to-noble career, it's still pretty tongue-in-cheek.  But that fits the Maxis style.  I was planning to do a more realistic peasant career first, but this one caught my interest because it's really funny.


Marhis, I sort of had the teen/elder pay scheme in mind as well.  I figure that if the pay isn't enough, then you can always pop out children and get them jobs when they reaches their teens.  That sounds realistic to me.  And the kids can garden.  There is a non awesome school's out forever hack I plan to use to keep the kids home doing useful work, where they should be anyway.

[witch]

That really does sound good. Cheers.

[angelyne]

The job descriptions were actually taken from a UK show called "Worst Jobs in History".  But I did rework some of them to adapt them  and wrote some additional material to link them together as a career path. 

[notveryawesome]

Hee, that's one of my favourite shows. Egads, the jobs they make poor Tony Robinson do really are horrible! This does sound like an interesting mod. I might even break my 'no custom careers' rule for this one if I ever do another medieval hood.

[Warge]

I'd like a medieval mod - ie, more diseases, less money, the risk of being dragged off to fight and die in some unknown country, bathing once a year (imagine a sim doing that!), landlords pushing the peasants around, no school, more starvation, a lot of dirt and little or no cleaning, families with 12-13 kids living at home and so on. Will never be possible though in a world were the fridge and the TV are the centerpieces in the home and showering twice a day and taking out the trash is the highest priority...

It's a step in the right direction though.

[ingeli]

My medieveal sims live perfectly without TV:s. Books are good for the richer sims, but now when I am restarting the neighbourhood, I will deny the poorer sims the books also. They can garden for fun, or jump in puddles. And make babies. Simple fun!
I do use the worse sickness mod. I havent implemented the effects of a war, yet, but that may come.

[notveryawesome]

Also, there are TVs and computers available on MTS2 that look like crystal balls, and a stereo that looks like a clockwork band made of 3 crude wooden figures. I've also seen stereos that look like violins, harps, and banjo-type instruments, but I don't remember where they were from (Ellis's site, maybe?).

[marjchaos]

Sounds good.  The descriptions sound cool. I also like the idea of it being a single job rather than two.  Increasing skills seems like it wouldn't be too important for play reality.  Sometimes the skills needed to move up career ladders doesn't make sense anyway.  I mean, why does the Mayor need cleaning skills?  I like the idea of using the teen/elder pay scale. It would keep them poor, but not so poor that I would be forced to cheat to prevent them from starving.  I use custom careers sometimes, and I do tax my medieval sims using Monique's payment mod.

[Kyna]

I mean, why does the Mayor need cleaning skills?

Because politics is a dirty game.  And to sweep things under the carpet.

[Warge]

Sometimes the skills needed to move up career ladders doesn't make sense anyway.  I mean, why does the Mayor need cleaning skills?

It's because the entire skill system suck. The reason Maxis have used the "home skills" for work must be purely lazyness - I admit there IS a use for cleaning at home, and cooking can be used for both cooks and at home, but the rest of the skills have no or very little real use so to speak. Add to that the worthless career climbing system and you can say hello to my pet peeve of the game.

I work on an alternative system which will be presented to Maxis - perhaps implemented in The Sims 4, but we'll see about that...

[seelindarun]

I think of the cleaning skill more metaphorically, like making order from chaos?  Organising/categorising skill, so maybe the mayor needs to be able to organise a city budget, and biologists or scientists might have to learn something about categorising species or stars.

But Kyna, I like yours better.