New Computer ... need advice - updated. Thanks Everyone!

[cassblonde]

  I took a quick look at the pinned thread on this but everyone soon lost me as I am not techie at all and get confused easily(and I'm tired). Here's the deal - My Mom won a rather large chunk of money and is willing to buy me a new computer. I want to have a local shop that I trust build me one but it can't run over about $900CDN for the whole set up(monitor and all). I would love a system that stands a chance at running Sims3 when it comes out because I just know this is my one and only chance at a custom built Simmin' machine.

So I need to know a few things...and type slow. I'm just about the least Awesome member on but trust you guys to lead me in the correct direction.

Considering my price contraints and the fact I am in Canada I need recommendations on what I should ask for in all the major parts of a computer(and should I push for XP?): Video Card, CPU(I presume Duo Core?), HD size and speed, amount of RAM and so on. I also gather power supply is a issue and I suppose cases make a difference as well(especailly since we're talking an un-airconditioned basement here and it gets plenty hot in Canada folks!).

Thanks in advance...I hope for enough Awesome responses to call the computer shop in a couple days and tell them what I want and not sound like a total dumdum...help me out? Please?

[Invisigoth]

I am not very awesome, either, but there are two things that I do know.  The first is that you will probably want 2 gigs of ram, because (at least for the next few years) that will be able to run just about whatever you need it to.  Second, I am not sure what the laws are like in Canada, but in the US it can be very expensive to get rid of an old monitor (it's considered hazardous waste), so I usually find my new monitors from www.craigslist.org.  People will sell used (but still very good condition) monitors for dirt, or often give them away for free if you are willing to go pick it up.  You can even get nice flat screen ones, particularly from companies who have recently upgraded and are trying to get rid of a bunch of them.  I looked on the site, and they have subsites for about a dozen areas in Canada, so it might be worth a try.  I haven't payed for a monitor in years.  They can be so expensive, so that might give you a helpful chunk more to use towards the actual machine.

[Hook]

Monitors are dirt cheap anymore anyway.  I got a professional grade Viewsonic 21" CRT for $500 delivered.  But there should be plenty of used monitors around if you know where to look.

Invisigoth, I followed the link in your signature.  The full quote is even more interesting:

We [at EA] want to avoid making 'pink games.' Women enjoy many of the same features in gameplay as men do. The way EA sees it is there's a lot of untapped potential out there."

This seems a bit higher than a T rating would suggest.

Hook

[KatEnigma]

Core 2 Duo
2 GB RAM
450w+ power supply
RADEON video card- please, do yourself a favor and avoid the Sims/Nvidia headaches. And the Nvidia/Vista headaches if you choose Vista. Something in the x850 or higher is fine for now. The x1950 Pro would be awesome.

What you really need to look for is upgradeability. Even if you only have one shot at customization, it doesn't mean that you'll be stuck with what you pick. You can add RAM, a different video card, or even a new Hard Drive very easily.  Power supplies are a pain, only because you have to unplug and replug everything, but even that can be upgraded later, if you find that you need more power. 

If you have a working monitor, why replace it immediately, at all? For the case, just look at something that seems to have space and the bigger fans are better (and tend to be quieter)

The main thing is you definitely want Dual Core, and Intel is worlds ahead on that right now, and it's harder to change your mind and swap out the processor later on.

 

[Invisigoth]

Monitors are dirt cheap anymore anyway.  I got a professional grade Viewsonic 21" CRT for $500 delivered.  But there should be plenty of used monitors around if you know where to look.

Invisigoth, I followed the link in your signature.  The full quote is even more interesting:

We [at EA] want to avoid making 'pink games.' Women enjoy many of the same features in gameplay as men do. The way EA sees it is there's a lot of untapped potential out there."

This seems a bit higher than a T rating would suggest.

Hook

Yeah, I'm 22 and trying to get through college.  500$ is well out of my price range, actually 50$ is well out of my price range.  Free is just about right. 

And I took that part of the quote because I thought it was kind of a funny dumb thing to say.  But I am glad that you enjoyed it.  Although I am not really sure what you're driving at with the T rating thing.  That might be because it's 4 AM my time and I should definitely be in bed.

[Gwill]

Don't let them push Vista on you!
If they'll let you, buy the computer without operating system and install it yourself.

[J. M. Pescado]

Always take freebies, never pay for an operating system, and always reformat a new computer. And don't use Vista. I always begin by rad-wiping and zeroing any new hard drive. There's nothing like high-intensity ion bombardment in a strong magnetic field for utterly scouring the disk of every trace of filthy spyware.

[Gwill]

Operative systems are never free.  They just hide the cost.
You probably already own at least one copy of WinXP. Find some sneaky way of installing it, and don't feel like you're stealing; you OWN it.

[J. M. Pescado]

Operative systems are never free.  They just hide the cost.

Well, yes, obviously. That's why you order your computer in pieces, getting twice as much computer for half the cost.

[cassblonde]

Thanks everyone, Katenigma especially because you put things in terms I understand Also my overall plan is that we will have 4 working computer systems in the basement computer room - I need a monitor and all to do that so I can let my youngest two kids play on the 5 year old computer and my husband have the 3 year old computer that is currently our gaming computer. My oldest daughter's grandparents bought her a computer a year and a half ago but since it's hers she doesn't share.

I should be more specific so everyone else will understand where I'm coming from here ...

Pescado I am honored that you would reply and am a huge fan of your clearly advanced intellect and love your work but I am but a lowly housewife and am not techie at all ... So all I can say is "Huh?"

Gwill, One of our computers has a legit copy of XP the other one(my current gaming computer) is 'not genuine' and I get that damn timer box all the time at boot up. I would prefer to go with XP but have a sneaking bad feeling that no one sells it anymore I will find out though.

My plan at this time is to get some specs from you guys and then call the computer shop I take my computers to when they need to get fixed and get a quote from them to tell my Mom(and then make huge puppy dog eyes and see if I can get it because I have a felling it may be a touch more than my budget). Hey, I can be in my 30s and still be a Mama's girl! Especially now, and yes it was a very large amount of money even to me so chances are good

[Gwill]

It's always possible to "make" a copy of XP genuine.  It's not too hard either, but you might have to do some research.  I'm terrible at explaining, so I'm not even going to try.

[J. M. Pescado]

It's always possible to "make" a copy of XP genuine.  It's not too hard either, but you might have to do some research.  I'm terrible at explaining, so I'm not even going to try.

Apparently, somebody managed to validate an install of Ubuntu Linux as "Genuine Windoze" and got to the Windoze Defender download page. Shows you how much "Genuine Windoze" is worth. It wasn't even Windoze, let alone genuine!

[MutantBunny]

First and most important: Get the best upgradable motherboard you can afford. It should be SLI ready, able to hold 8 gigs of ram and have a great chipset (680i is the gamers benchmark right now. All the rest you can easily upgrade later.YOU can get a good case that will make working on it easier for under a $100--most important factor: airflow and fan setup.

Remember: Cool is good. If I was you, I'd read up and see how easy it is to build your own system. Let the techs put the cooler on your processor if that makes you nervous. The money you save in labor can be put into better parts. Start reading. It's not hard. Afterall, I did it...

My machine: I went with the Asus P5N32e mother board, E6600 processor (I'll upgrade in a year to an Extreme) under a Zalman 9500 cooler, with Asus 7900 gs graphics cards (upgrade to 8800 gts later) with four--count 'em four!! gigs of ram all in an Altec 900 case. (That's an Nvidia chipset on the graphics cards and Sims is playing great! I'm amazed at the picture. It's stunning.) Oh yeah: I also treated us to a Asus 22" LCD screen. That made a huge difference, I was really surprised cuz my old screen wasn't bad (19' Sony Trinitron CRT)

I'm on Vista--cuz I have a 64 bt system. I actually LIKE Vista. It has it's problems right now and it isn't the most stable (it IS a MS product...) but the interface I like--simple, fairly straightforward and it's easy enough to get most of the crap in it turned off. You have to be fairly knowledgable to deal with it--or willing to learn as you go and read read read Not a hard thing to do if you know enough to format and reinstall, not hard things at all.

I think Pes is right: one shouldn't have to pay for an OS. I did pay for my Vista but just because I have a quirky son that wanted to be all legal like. You most likely already have XP: just put that on your new machine.

[Gwill]

...able to hold 8 gigs of ram...

Before we scare the crap out of anyone; that does not mean you have to, or even should, actually fill it with 8GB of RAM.  No one needs that much at the moment.
If you go with XP 32-bit, 3GB of RAM is the most you can utilize.  I currently have 4GB RAM in my computer, but only 2,87 of those are actually usable by Windows.  If you're silly enough to actually go for Vista, you should get 4GB right away.

[J. M. Pescado]

Before we scare the crap out of anyone; that does not mean you have to, or even should, actually fill it with 8GB of RAM.  No one needs that much at the moment.

That is untrue. If you have > 4 GBs of CC and an OS that can handle that much RAM, then you need at least 8 GBs of RAM.

[Gwill]

Only by Pescado standards.
And if we're going to go by those, we might as well argue that no one needs 4GB of CC under any circumstances.

[MutantBunny]

Yes, you're right Gwill. No one really needs 8 gigs now--but they will in a few years. If you get a mobo that's ready for that now then you're good to go when you need it.

I'm leery of cheap mobos having recently experienced being 'mobo challenged': my old PC had 1 gig, would hold two gigs-so it said when I got it. But when trying to install 2 gigs--it wouldn't recognize the extra gig. I tried different memory still wouldn't go. Heard it was Xp, heard it was the mobo, heard it was the memory itself. Too much hassle ordering memory, RMAing it, repeat. Got frustrated and stopped trying.....I THINK it was the mobo to begin with--lying Micron selling cheap nonsupported Intel board. I will never buy a premade unit again. It's too easy to put a PC together. If one fears all the components won't jive then copy someone elses setup off one of the forums where people go brag about their PCs. It's just too easy...

Even Vista won't recognize the 4 gigs until you go get a patch for it from MS (stupid MS.)

I have a Logitech LCD panel right in front of me now when I play and I can monitor the memory usage moment to moment I have just under 2 gigs of CC (thanks to jfade!) in normal day events for the Sims, I use at least 2 gigs of ram. ANd it often goes a bit above the two gigs. But Vista is a memory hog too. In percentages: of 4 gigs of ram, Vista uses on average 25%. With Sims running it runs at about 60% sometimes spiking a bit over that.

[J. M. Pescado]

Yes, you're right Gwill. No one really needs 8 gigs now--but they will in a few years. If you get a mobo that's ready for that now then you're good to go when you need it.

In a few years, your computer will likely suffer from some other fundamental shortcoming necessitating a full motherboard replacement anyway.

[Ambular]

Gwill, One of our computers has a legit copy of XP the other one(my current gaming computer) is 'not genuine' and I get that damn timer box all the time at boot up. I would prefer to go with XP but have a sneaking bad feeling that no one sells it anymore I will find out though.

XP should still be available for a while yet--even after MS stops distributing the OS, there will still be copies circulating in the market, and AFAIK they have no plans to stop validating or activating new installations any time soon.  So you should be good there--and I concur with the others, definitely don't get Vista!  And 2 GB RAM should just about cover you for the time being.  (I manage quite nicely on 1.5, but I also obsessively scrub my machine to get rid of unnecessary memory-eating processes.)

If you're going to really skimp on anything, BTW, I would recommend it be the sound.  Integrated sound should be perfectly adequate for running Sims games; you really don't need a spiffy sound card unless you're an audiophile and using the machine for music playback.

[jsalemi]

XP should still be available for a while yet--even after MS stops distributing the OS, there will still be copies circulating in the market, and AFAIK they have no plans to stop validating or activating new installations any time soon. 

The response to Vista has been so poor that I noticed over the weekend that even Dell is once again offering XP as an option on most of their new computers.  They had stopped doing that after Vista first came out.

[Ambular]

The response to Vista has been so poor that I noticed over the weekend that even Dell is once again offering XP as an option on most of their new computers.  They had stopped doing that after Vista first came out.

I had heard that, yeah.  I personally plan to avoid Vista until it hits about SP2 and/or I am forced to get a new PC, whichever comes first.  :p

[cassblonde]

Just an update my computer has been purchased and is being built *does a happy dance*. Thank you everyone that helped and replied to my thread! Here are the specs:

System Specifications:
Processor: Intel® Core 2 Duo Dual-Core
Mainboard: ASUS® P5B- E intel P965 Chipset
Memory: 2 GB DDR2 667MHz Dual-Ch. Memory
Hard Disk: 250GB 7200rpm SATA 3G Drive 16MB Cache
Optical Drive: 18X MAX DVD/RW Dual Layer
Video Graphics: nVidia GeForce 8600GT 256M PCI- E Graphics
Sound Card: Six Channel High Definition Audio
Keyboard: Saitek Gaming Keyboard
Mouse: Gaming Mouse
Speakers: Cdn Designed Edifer 2.1 Subwoofer Speakers
Network: 10/100/1000 Network Interface (on board)
Enclosure: Ferrari-red Case - dual 12V 430W Power
Operating Sys: Microsoft Windows XP Home
Monitor: Viewsonic 20in Widescreen LCD
Warranty: 1 Yr Parts & Labor System Warranty
Bonus: McAfee 2007 Virusscan Plus

*big evil grin* So you think the Sims will run on it? 

[KatEnigma]

Not without problems, because you completely ignored the advice about not buying an Nvidia card.  These are known problems that stem back over a year.

Why do people even bother to ask if they are going to do the opposite? 

[mildlydisguised]

Also what model of Intel Core 2 Duo is it?  Not that it really makes a difference to whether it will play the sims but I am interested.

I would have gone Intel and ATI not Intel and nvidia too.  And if I were you I wouldn't use McAfee for virus protection.  On a plus side you have a good amount of RAM, fairly decent size hard drive and you'll have XP instead of Vista.  This will probably run TS2 fine providing you don't run into Nvidia problems. 

How much did you pay for it, if you don't mind my asking?

[ZiggyDoodle]

but in the US it can be very expensive to get rid of an old monitor (it's considered hazardous waste),

Goodwill Industries (which are nationwide) will take used computer equipment - including monitors.  My local store charged nothing when I dropped off my 19" monster monitor, which I had replaced with a flat screen. 

http://www.goodwill.org/page/guest/about

Edited to add that Goodwill is a 501(c)(3) organization, thus you can get a receipt and write off the donation on your tax return.