Mac NL crashes hard when romance mod installed

[nightwand]

I'm running the Mac version, and the only EP I have installed is Nightlife. If it matters, I'm on an Intel-based Mac Pro.

I downloaded the latest version of the romance mod listed in the hack index, and I made sure to get the one from the NL folder. When I install it, though, Bad Things happen. Basically, within seconds of starting the clock in a lot, the game crashes out to the desktop.

Everything seems ok until I enter a lot. Even in a lot so long as I keep the game paused, things seem stable. Once I unpause the game, though, it will die within seconds. I've tried putting it in debug mode, but I don't get an error dialog or any interesting log files. This happens in several different lots including ones in my neighborhood and one in Strangetown.

I have emptied my Downloads folder other than the romance mod, and the same thing happens.

I have attached the OS collected crash log which shows an EXC_BAD_ACCESS exception coming out of thread 0. It also has stack traces for all the threads. I don't know if this will be any help or not, but I figured throwing it in couldn't hurt.

I desperately want this mod, so I'm hoping someone has an idea how to let me use it. Thanks in advance!

[J. M. Pescado]

This is a known issue with NL, which has a buggy engine that seems to crash for no logically sane reason. Do you know what event triggers this?

[nightwand]

I haven't noticed anything specific, and I haven't issued any instructions manually when it crashes. Based on the function names in the stack trace, I'd guess one of the characters was trying to select an autonomous action (cTSPerson::TryFindBestAction, etc).

Can you suggest anything I should try in order to narrow the problem down?  Or is the answer that I'm SOL without adding a newer EP?

[J. M. Pescado]

Try the new version I just put up. We're trying to track the issue, but NL's buggy engine makes it very difficult and people never volunteer to test in a timely fashion and return with the results.

[Marhis]

I also had odd behavior, when installed NL only - odd things disappeared after Uni installed.

In addition, I would suggest, in the meantime, these tasks: try disabling audio (ported audio stuff is often borked) and/or quicktime, in some way, better if in system than in game only; start the game with command key pressed and untick "optimized rendering" in the window; eject DVD after the game is loaded - there are rumors of issues with mac disc copy protection.
I'm not sure if these can help - probably not - but may reveal some hints.

[nightwand]

I tried the new version, and I'm afraid all was much the same. A quick skim of the crash log looked functionally identical, so I won't waste space posting it.

I haven't tried Marhis' suggestions yet... I'll do that next. (Except for disabling Quicktime since I have no idea how to go about doing such a thing.)

My wife wanted me to mention that she dug up a copy of a base-game-only version somewhere and tried it. She said that it did NOT crash the system. However, things went all wonky in other ways. Two characters stood in place jerking and resetting repeatedly. She told them to sit down at a chess table, and they sat there talking normally. Whenever she told them to actually play chess, though, they pulled out the pieces, started to play, and then glitched back to wherever they were standing before she told them to play. Several other behaviors were weird, too. We can post more details of this version's oddities, but I won't take up more space unless you think it would be helpful.

[J. M. Pescado]

Original game version wouldn't work. Looking into it some more.

Try now. Stupid buggy NL engine.

[nightwand]

No joy on Marhis' suggestions, I'm afraid. What I did:

Turned off optimized rendering
While in the neighborhood screen, I selected 'mute' on each audio option
Ejected the NL DVD
Went into Strangetown Smith lot and paused immediately.

The selected characters wants all reset. I looked around a bit and all seemed reasonable.
When I unpaused, the characters wants reset again (which seemed mildly odd0
Then it crashed with the same stack trace as the previous times

[J. M. Pescado]

I already know what the general issue is, there's just no logical reason why the NL engine randomly does that. It's a really stupid bug we have to make clumsy workarounds for.

[nightwand]

Same old, same old I'm afraid. The game lived long enough for the characters to start to move (posture changes and the like) and then bombed.

I'm happy to keep playing guinea pig if you've got ideas you'd like to test. If there's no hope, though, I don't want you wasting more of your weekend on this.

[J. M. Pescado]

Okay, try the version from the NL directory only. If it works, I'm going to have to discontinue support on it after that, though, since it refuses to function as a unified version.

[nightwand]

No crash after a few minutes of play!  I'll let you know how a more extended play session goes, but I'm pretty optimistic.  I take it you ripped out all the post-NL code or something?

If I wanted to switch off NL to get away from the bugs, does it matter which EP I go with? University is the only one where the extra games features really appeal.  Since it came out before NL, though, wouldn't that mean I should use the NL version of the app? I guess I could install Pets and just not buy anyone a dog.

Thanks tons for working on this!

[J. M. Pescado]

Uni is a backslide, so it would not repair the issues. Getting any stuffpack would upgrade you to OFB-engine, regarded as one of the more stable. Getting ZOMGPETZ!!!111oneoneone or Seasons would also upgrade you to the corresponding engines.

[Paperbladder]

I'm wondering why Aspyr didn't port those stuff packs over when they did the EPs.  Aspyr doesn't hate money, do they?

I'd say OFB or wait for Seasons.  Avoid Pets like the plague.

[Marhis]

I can witness OfB for Mac seems good, except for the resurrect-o-nomitron, but if you don't have Uni this shouldn't bother you. I've just installed Pets, but I'm not sure the game is good and stable like pre-pets. So far, no major issues, but I'm keeping an eye wide open on it.

Me too don't understand why they didn't port stuff packs; I've heard it's because of some copyright agreement issues, but don't know anything else.

[J. M. Pescado]

Probably because stuff packs lack anything to port, and if you have an engine upgrade over the stuff pack, it's likely possible to shoehorn a stuff pack in off a Windoze CD install.

[nightwand]

The romance mod seems to be both stable and working, so I'll give that a big thumbs up. Thanks for getting a working copy posted.

Of course, my next attempt was ACR, and that's crashing with exactly the same stack trace. I guess you guys are patching some of the same areas. I suppose I should accept the inevitable and upgrade to one of the newer expansions.

Can anyone say whether it's more annoying to ignore wants to open a business vs wants to buy a pet?

[notveryawesome]

OFB is the lesser of two evils, in my opinion. It's less buggy overall, and the wants seem more reasonable. Only fortune and popularity sims seem to roll wants to open a business; however, knowledge sims always want to buy the stupid crafting stations, so it's a trade-off. The Pets EP, on the other hand, pretty much gives every sim the constant desire to buy either a womrat cage or a birdcage. Family sims are obsessed with breeding cats and dogs, and knowledge sims are forever wanting to teach Fido a command, whilst fortune sims want Fido to get a job. The pets are cute, and there are some really cool objects and Build Mode features, but in hindsight I'm not sure if they're worth all the bugginess. Any EP will bring with it a whole slew of retarded obsessions, but I've found Pets to be the most buggy and irritating of all the EPs, even though the pets themselves are adorable. At least with OFB, fortune sims actually have a purpose and are fun to play - otherwise I find them quite tedious. Also, I like the challenge of creating a top-level business.

These are only my opinions, of course, and frankly I don't know you well enough to even fathom which game will appeal to you the most. I guess it just depends on what's more important to you - running businesses or having cuddlies to play with.

[Marhis]

I agree; in addition, consider also that Pets is the only EP for Mac shipped in the same date of Win edition. Usually Mac editions ship later, and they have the most blatant bugfixes incorporated. If you don't take into account brand new and exclusive bugs addeed by Aspyr, of course .