Testers Wanted: Uni Careers Hack v0.00.20 (Updated 9/23/2008)

[notveryawesome]

Hi Ste. I've been playing the updated version of this hack for a few days, and it works great. I was able to get an uneducated sim into the showbusiness career via the newspaper, and have experienced no problems whatsoever. Good job!

Edit: I thought I should mention that I am NOT using the debug version of this mod.

[Madame Mim]

I'm running your DEBUG version and I have a couple of oddities and an error report for you. The Sim in question has just exited Uni with a Physics degree.

When she read the paper the three jobs offered were;
Military Career - General - 00:00 to 00:00 for 0 Simoleans
Slacker Career - Professional Party Guest - 00:00 to 00:00 for 0 Simoleans
Althetic Career - Team Mascot - 15:00 to 25:00 for 154 Simoleans

When she uses the computer to look for a job the offers are;
Slacker Career - Golf Caddy - 05:00 to 10:00 for 126 Simoleans (definate difference there)
Politics Career - Campaign Worker - 09:00 to 18:00 for 306 Simoleans
Military Career - Recruit - 07:00 to 13:00 for 350 Simoleans (another difference)
and then I get an error message which I have attached to this post. Hope all this helps 'cause I love the whole concept of this mod.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Magicmoon]

Currently when a YA is choosing a major, the list of majors also reports what careers they are good for. Does this mod change the wording on those to reflect your changes? If not, are there plans for it in the final cut?

I'm just concerned that I'll never remember which majors correspond to which careers.

[jrd]

IIRC careers are dynamically tied to majors based on skills.
Certainly custom careers show up (and replace) the careers relevant to Maxis majors in the major dialog.

edited for clarity and because I am an idiot.

[syberspunk]

Currently when a YA is choosing a major, the list of majors also reports what careers they are good for. Does this mod change the wording on those to reflect your changes? If not, are there plans for it in the final cut?

IIRC careers are dynamically tied to majors based on skills. Custom majors show up (and replace) the Maxis majors in the dialog.

It'd be great if anyone (who does not currently have custom careers) can verify whether or not the changes are reflected in the major choosing panel.  If I get a chance to set up my computer tonight and get some playtime in, I may casually glance at this.  Otherwise, I most likely won't get to really looking at this until sometime this week or even later, depending on what fancies me.

But... if it doesn't change this, I will consider hacking the text (if need be) to reflect such changes.  Hopefully it won't be a painful process, and will be customizable for others who dare to use SimPE.  If it is easy to do, then for sure, I'll include instructions along with the FAQ/how-to I have planned.

@MadameMin: Thanks for the error log.  Again, it will have to wait until I get my computer up and running again, and when I actually find the time to sit down and scrutinize it.  But I really appreciate you testing with the Debug version so I can actually have an error log to look through.

Ste

[Jelenedra]

I would like to propose that the culinary career gets physics or biology connected as an associated degree. As my favorite chef on the Food Network cooks like a scientist. (Alton Brown)

[miros]

Lol, I said something similar (Food Science is big right now), and JMP bashed me for it.  Guess he likes parasites in his food.

[Magicmoon]

It'd be great if anyone (who does not currently have custom careers) can verify whether or not the changes are reflected in the major choosing panel.  If I get a chance to set up my computer tonight and get some playtime in, I may casually glance at this.  Otherwise, I most likely won't get to really looking at this until sometime this week or even later, depending on what fancies me.
Ste

I don't have any custom careers in the game. I played last night and tried to find a major for my Sim who had a LTW of Athlete. None of them showed athletics. I know that a degree isn't required for that field, but degrees aren't required for cooking or artist either and they show on the dialog. Well anyway, this is what the dialog box shows when a Sim tries to declare a major:

History:  Science, Artist, Politics
Physics: Paranormal, Science, Medicine
Literature: Showbiz, Slacker, medicine
Political Sci: Showbiz, Politics, Military
Mathematics: Nat Sci, Science, Crime
Economics: Showbiz, Politics, Crime
Biology: Nat Sci, Science, Medicine
Philosophy: Paranormal, Slacker, Politics
Art: Showbiz, Artist, Slacker
Drama: Showbiz, Artist, Politics
Psychology: Paranormal, Military, Law Enforcement

That breaks down to:

5 politics
5 showbiz
4 science
3 artist
3 paranormal
3 medicine
2 natural science
3 slacker
2 crime
2 military
1 law enforcement
0 Business
0 Athletics
0 Culinary

So it looks correct to me except for the fact that each major only lists 3 matching careers so some of them are being left off the list.

...Edited to fix error in break down list...

[syberspunk]

So it looks correct to me except for the fact that each major only lists 3 matching careers so some of them are being left off the list.

Wow. So using this hack actually does alter the major dialog thingie? Interesting... hehe. Well, less work for me then. And I would suspect that the reason that some of those careers are not being shown is, as you say, because they are being left off.  So it probably isn't that Athletic isn't showing up because it isn't linked to anything, but most likely because there are far too many careers that it gets left off.  I'm not quite sure yet how the dialog decides to display the careers and in what order... I need to look at my notes and compare your findings to my list of careers vs. majors breakdown.

Ste

[Magicmoon]

*If* you are able to manipulate the dialog, I'd like to make a suggestion. Since only 3 careers will fit on each major, priority should be given to those careers that require a specific degree, with 2nd priority to those careers that require education but not a degree. So if athletics, slacker, military etc. don't fit, then leave those off entirely.

This way when I have a Sim that wants to be a Professional Athlete and I don't see anything on the list of majors, I'll know that an education isn't required for it. Then I would just pick one of the majors that stress body and charisma since I know that will be important to that career.

Alternately, or in addition, it would be nice to have an object that when you click on it, will pop-up the chart as updated for this mod. That way, without having to leave the game and consult the RTFM, a teen can decide whether or not to attend college. Otherwise, we either have to remember all the changes, keep a written list next to the computer, or wait until they are already in college to call and see the majors list. Perhaps since JMP assigned this homework to you, he would be willing to include the pop-up on the lot debugger.

[Gwill]

Oolo-voodoo-moodoo-WO!
</necromatic chant>

Any seasons update on this in the works?

[syberspunk]

I have updated it for myself and I've been greedily hoarding it.

Actually... I've been slowly working on the documentation.  Well... actually an Excel spreadsheet that should help if you plan to customize the hack for your own tastes.  Then, I have to work on the faq/rtfm stuff.  I'll eventually finish it... eventually... hehe.

Ste

[Gwill]

Need a beta-tester?
I'm very good at beta testing; ask Pescado.  Documentation is for wussies; just give me the goodies!

And while you're at it, beat Pescado over the head until he sets up a section for your hacks.  I'm going crazy looking all over for them with every new EP.

[syberspunk]

Ok, you've twisted my arm.  I posted the next version here in the 3rd post.  No wussy documentation.  There were some significant changes to the majors and careers stuff.  So don't be a wuss and whine about it, if it turns out to be not to your liking.

Ste

[Ancient Sim]

This makes far more sense and I shall look forward to seeing which of the new careers needs a degree,  The only thing I'm a bit concerned about the dropping of two bonus levels.  For some reason, mine don't seem to get any boosts and haven't done for some time - I had a newly-graduated sim go into Culinary today with an associated degree (Art) and all she could get was dish-washer, which I believe is the very lowest level, and I haven't even installed this mod yet!  She was pregnant at the time she got the job (with a baby conceived at Uni), but I doubt that made any difference, unless it was the fact that I'd installed Pets & Seasons in between her graduating/going back to the main neighbourhood and applying for the job, although I can't see how that woud affect it, either. 

Maxian logic with these careers has always puzzled me.  I know the reason the Uni careers need degrees is because they pay more, but it never made sense that a doctor/scientist didn't need a degree and a film star or artist did.   Then when I checked-out the new careers, I was AMAZED to discover that a literature degree is of no benefit to a sim wanting to become a journalist.  It appears that a literature degree is of no benefit whatsoever to someone who wants to write for a living, but if they want to rob banks ... any chance you could add Literature to Journalism? 

Going back to the income side of it ... I suppose upping the financial rewards for the 'new' degree careers (such as medicine) and dropping them a bit for the previous ones (paranormal, etc.) wouldn't be possible?  It sort of seems a bit unfair that the graduates could end-up earning less than those with degrees ... then again, film stars do earn more than doctors, don't they!

I'd also like to see JM collaborate with you a bit on this in terms of his LTW mod.  A career like Paranormal, for instance, should be available to all aspirations, as it's something that appeals to a wide variety of people.  The same goes for culinary, art, etc.  As long as the interest in the topic is there, I think these careers should be open to all aspirations.  They may be already, but without testing I won't know.  JM's mod is rather restrictive with newly-created sims & ex-dormies and so on, esp. as I always reject the generic ones (such as grandchildren, etc.), either because they're basically impossible or because they can do those later, after they've achieved a career one.  I also reject 20 Best Friends because it's too damned easy.

Anyway, I am rambling.  Will test this out tomorrow as I have several students on the verge of graduating.

[jrd]

Ancient: Pescado's harder jobs removes the bonus levels if you get a job through the newspaper. You may run into this.

As for graduates earning less than people who immediately get a career: that's how the real world works. By not going to college you get a headstart, which means the graduate will never catch up to your salary level (since you only have from 18-65 to work, and a graduate typically enters the job market from5 to 7 (or more) years later than the non-graduate).

[J. M. Pescado]

Maxian logic with these careers has always puzzled me.  I know the reason the Uni careers need degrees is because they pay more, but it never made sense that a doctor/scientist didn't need a degree and a film star or artist did.   Then when I checked-out the new careers, I was AMAZED to discover that a literature degree is of no benefit to a sim wanting to become a journalist.  It appears that a literature degree is of no benefit whatsoever to someone who wants to write for a living, but if they want to rob banks ... any chance you could add Literature to Journalism?

It appears that the careers to majors link is arbitrarily determined by an algorithm, and not set by the career anywhere. It's apparently some kind of correlative effect between the major's skills and the job's skills. There is nothing that can really be changed there.

Going back to the income side of it ... I suppose upping the financial rewards for the 'new' degree careers (such as medicine) and dropping them a bit for the previous ones (paranormal, etc.) wouldn't be possible?  It sort of seems a bit unfair that the graduates could end-up earning less than those with degrees ... then again, film stars do earn more than doctors, don't they!

Doctors haven't really been lucrative ever since malpractice insurance got outrageous.

[Ancient Sim]

Ancient: Pescado's harder jobs removes the bonus levels if you get a job through the newspaper. You may run into this.

It was through the computer, I always get them that way.  Not that I mind, the headstart was always way too high, just that starting right at the bottom, esp. with a relevant degree, makes no sense.  It's almost as if the game didn't recognise the fact that she had the degree.

[syberspunk]

This makes far more sense and I shall look forward to seeing which of the new careers needs a degree,  The only thing I'm a bit concerned about the dropping of two bonus levels.

I actually removed that part because it was kinda buggy.  Problem was, I had the code deduct levels depending on certain things... but then I wasn't catching the possibility of having negative numbers.  I didn't want to think too hard about it, so I just removed it all together.   Maybe if I rethink the code, I may come back to this feature.

Maxian logic with these careers has always puzzled me.

<snip>

It appears that a literature degree is of no benefit whatsoever to someone who wants to write for a living, but if they want to rob banks ... any chance you could add Literature to Journalism?

Yes, it puzzled me too, but then again Maxian EA logic is about as sensible as insane Troll logic.   As for Journalism... I think the new veresion (in the 3rd post of the thread) includes the Seasons careers, with adjustments to the majors.  I still have, as of yet, to finish the customization documentation.  I'll get around to it, eventually.

Going back to the income side of it ... I suppose upping the financial rewards for the 'new' degree careers (such as medicine) and dropping them a bit for the previous ones (paranormal, etc.) wouldn't be possible?  It sort of seems a bit unfair that the graduates could end-up earning less than those with degrees ... then again, film stars do earn more than doctors, don't they!

It would be, but right now, I'm a bit too lazy about looking into that.  It would involve a lot more delving into how careers work and which values that would need changing.  Hopefully, it would be something as easy as editing some BCON values.  But then, who decides which salaries need adjusting and what those adjustments are.  Those kinds of changes usually never pleases everyone.  If it is something as easy as just changing BCON values, then it should be fairly easy to customize for your own game.  Right now, I don't want to think about it too much.

I'd also like to see JM collaborate with you a bit on this in terms of his LTW mod.

Lol.  Awww... a sweet idea, but I doubt the ol' coot would be up for collaborating in that way.  He marches to the beat of his own logic.  You'd probably be better off trying to customize his mod for yourself.  Btw... with the way his mod works... Family sims can pretty much have any Career LTW if they have a family member that can serve as a "role model" in that career and they have a good relationship.

It appears that the careers to majors link is arbitrarily determined by an algorithm, and not set by the career anywhere. It's apparently some kind of correlative effect between the major's skills and the job's skills. There is nothing that can really be changed there.

I could have sworn I saw somewhere that the code checks to see if a sims major matches "bits" that are set in a BCON for the career, and if they do, this adds to the potential of starting further up in the career.  No?  It's now been awhiles since I actually looked at the code.

Ancient: Pescado's harder jobs removes the bonus levels if you get a job through the newspaper. You may run into this.

It was through the computer, I always get them that way.  Not that I mind, the headstart was always way too high, just that starting right at the bottom, esp. with a relevant degree, makes no sense.  It's almost as if the game didn't recognise the fact that she had the degree.

Hrm... that is weird... well... I have a few sims that I graduated from Uni recently, and one more on the way.  He's just got to finish his last 72 hours before he gets sent back.  I think I will send him off with a grad party, as I have yet to actually have one of those.  Once I've graduated him, I will have a chunk of sims that I could finally test out my career hack with.


Ste

[pixiejuice]

I love this hack!  Anything to make my sims lives a little harder

Are you still looking for testing info on this?  (seasons version)  Everything seemed to be working as described, except a few small differences.  I used three sims, one born in game, one spawned from TL&D, one CAS.

all of these job searches are on the computer

Day 1:
born in game, went to uni, math major was offered 3 jobs: writer (custom), social work (custom), and science - no more.
spawned from TL&D, no uni was offered 2 jobs: writer (custom), and social work (custom) - no more.
CAS, no uni, upgraded to biology major with debugger was offered 4 jobs: writing (custom), science, law enforcement, social work (custom) - no more

Law enforcement should availale to everyone?  My math major and my non-uni sim were not offered it.  And no one was offered 5 jobs, not even the biology major.

Day 2:
born in game, went to uni, math major was offered 4 jobs: adventurer, military, athletics, investment (custom) - no more.
spawned from TL&D, no uni was offered 4 jobs: adventurer, military, athletics, investment (custom) - no more.
CAS, no uni, upgraded to biology major with debugger was offered 5 jobs: adventurer, natural science, military, athletics, investment (custom)

My math major should have been offered natural science?

Day 3:
born in game, went to uni, math major was offered 5 jobs: journalism, slacker, medicine, computing (custom), social work.
spawned from TL&D, no uni was offered 3 jobs: slacker, computing (custom), social work - no more.
CAS, no uni, upgraded to biology major with debugger was offered 5 jobs: journalism, slacker, medicine, computing (custom), social work.

My math major should not have been offered medicine?

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you want me to test anything else.

And are you still working on the documentation for customizing?  I would definitely be interested in making some of my custom careers require degrees.

Thanks!

[Hegelian]

It sort of seems a bit unfair that the graduates could end-up earning less than those with degrees ...

There may be regional differences, but certainly here in the U.S. this is not uncommon. I'm an incomplete dissertation away from having a Ph.D (which will never be completed), yet I'm not even in the top half of the national income distribution—and I got my first real job in 1974. This phenomenon was recognized at least forty years ago:  social activists in the U.S. called us the "new working class"—white-collar workers paid low hourly wages. I'm also part of the first downwardly-mobile generation in American history, the first generation which could not expect to automatically enjoy a higher standard of living than our parents.

Like Leonard Bast in Forster's Howard's End, the new working class tends to identify its interests (mistakenly) with those of its employers, and so is not an agent for economic or social change.

My math major should not have been offered medicine?

It has been my experience (without this hack) that suitable jobs are not always offered on the first try. The available jobs for the day are the same for every sim on the lot.

[syberspunk]

I love this hack!  Anything to make my sims lives a little harder

Yay!  Glad you like it.

Are you still looking for testing info on this?

Yes.  Always.  Feedback and constructive criticism is (almost ) always welcome.

Day 1:
born in game, went to uni, math major was offered 3 jobs: writer (custom), social work (custom), and science - no more.
spawned from TL&D, no uni was offered 2 jobs: writer (custom), and social work (custom) - no more.
CAS, no uni, upgraded to biology major with debugger was offered 4 jobs: writing (custom), science, law enforcement, social work (custom) - no more

Law enforcement should availale to everyone?  My math major and my non-uni sim were not offered it.  And no one was offered 5 jobs, not even the biology major.

Hrm... well... I actually changed things since the last time I posted, to make things somewhat more (but kinda arbitrarily) balanced.  I actually haven't had any sims get jobs yet... although I have had a slew of recent grads (I have about 6 grads that I've either moved into households or they are waiting to be moved in from the Sim Bin).  I've still been playing in Uni, so I actually haven't had a chance to test things out more since the last update.

From what I can vaguely remember about the code... I think each day kind of "rolls" up what 5 jobs are available for that day/household.  As Hegelian says, those jobs will pretty much be the only jobs available for that day.  I think the 'cycle' for when the jobs change is at 6:00pm.

Then... the only jobs that will be "offered" are the ones that a sim may be "qualified for" based on the Uni related bits.  If a career is set to not require a uni degree, then it should always be available.  If a career requires a uni degree, it should be available only to uni grads (I assume the lot debugger sets all appropriate flags/sim data).  If a career requires a specific uni degree, then only uni grads with the qualifying degree should be offered that career track.

<snip>
My math major should have been offered natural science?

<snip>
My math major should not have been offered medicine?

Again, I changed things a little in the last update, which I posted without documentation.  So I'll have to dig through the code again to remember what I did.

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you want me to test anything else.

This definitely helps.  This is probably exactly the kind of info to help me figure out whether the hack is actually working properly.  Again, I'll have to check the code to see if the above info fits.  I assume you are using the latest version?  Only v0.00.19 has the seasons related stuff.  If you're using the older version, they will still work, technically, but the seasons careers won't be affected.

And are you still working on the documentation for customizing?  I would definitely be interested in making some of my custom careers require degrees.

Still working... yes.  I started it up again last week, but then I've been playing more instead.   I suppose I could go back to working instead of playing *sniffs* if I must.  Well... eventually I'll get around to finishing it up.  Maybe sooner than later if I let the guilt get to me. lol.


Ste

[pixiejuice]

Just to clarify,

I suppose I could go back to working instead of playing *sniffs* if I must.

Don't worry about it, I would rather be playing too!

Yes, I am using v0.00.19 for Seasons.

In my game the jobs change over at midnight.  I think my original post was a little confusing, so let me clarify.  In my post, each line of each day represents one of the three sims, and the jobs they were offered in that same day, before the jobs changed over at midnight.  Does that make sense?  I know what you guys mean about the game rolling up only 5 jobs for each day.

I guess the weirdest thing I noticed, is that on the same day the biology major was offered the law enforcement job, neither of the other two were.  I assume you've left the law enforcement career path open to everyone?  But of course, if it's not supposed to be open to everyone, then that's a whole different story   I guess the other discrepancies could be explained by the changes you've made to the requirements.

I like it though, so I'll keep playing it the way it is until you update.  Happy Simming!

[syberspunk]

Ok, I finally got around to making the documentation.   You can find it in the 3rd post here.


I would've uploaded it last night, but I was having problems trying to upload a 3MB zipped Word document.  So... Fairlight the Bitch... or was it Fagor?  I can't remember.  They're pretty interchangeable. suggested I make it an html file and just link the pics (which were the reason why the Word doc was so large).  Brilliant idea!  Glad I thought of it.

Unfortunately, I couldn't imgred the pics... so, since they're currently hosted on my photobucket, there may be a slight chance that they'll be disabled if the bandwidth gets eaten up (unless photobucket changed their policy and/or increased the quota limit).

Hopefully the instructions are fairly easy to understand.  The docs consist of an HTML file and an Excel spreadsheet.  The Excel spreadsheet actually serves a dual purpose:

1) it documents the existing "state" so to speak in how the hack has changed the majors associated with each career.  It also tells you whether education is required, and whether or not they have to be the specific majors associated with each career.

2) it acts as a "calculator" to generate the values you should use if you want to customize the hack.


As mentioned in the documentation, I "balanced" the hack so each career has 4 majors associated with it, and each major can apply to 8 careers.  Please note, this is under the assumption that you have the Seasons EP and the Life Stories careers (which is what my current set up includes).  Even if the associations don't quite make sense, I did my best to try and "balance" them so that no career or major necessarily is heavily favored over the others, since this was brought up as a point of concern. 

As always, feedback is appreciated.  The only caveat, now at least, being that you can't complain to me about associated majors and careers not making sense.  You now have the power to change it however you see fit.

I probably won't make any major changes until new careers become available, either in the next EP or extracted from Life Stories.


Ste

[pixiejuice]

Very easy to understand, thank you! 

I just have a couple questions.  What would happen if I decided to make it unbalanced?  If I didn't keep the 4 majors per career ratio?  For example, if I wanted only biology majors to be able to go into medicine? 

And is there any way to add custom careers into this hack?  If it's very complicated, don't worry about it, because I probably wouldn't be able to do it.


ETA: (by syberspunk to merge posts)

A problem...

In the calculator, if I try to change anything in the 0/1 columns, to get a new hex value, it gives me an error.  It says "#NAME?".  It won't let me change anything.


Note: when possible, please use edit rather than double posting.