Why do so many people's male sims look like women?

[Stitches]

So that's why all of my great-great-grandmothers looked like those old men I see hanging out at the laundromat.

It also answers the age old question: where are all the hotties in history?

Answer: Didn't exist. Everyone was ugly and didn't know better. Mona Lisa was probably the smokin'est babe Da Vinci could find to paint.

[OpiumGirl]

Just as it's easier for a girl to be good-looking than a guy is, it's easier to make a good-looking feminine face than a good-looking masculine one.

I have to say that I find it easy to make beautiful male sims....sometimes even easier than women.  And that goes for both feminine and masculine type male sims....
I also find that I'm more forgiving of a man's facial "imperfections" than I am of a woman's...And that's a real stunner since I typically like the ladies, heehee.

Also, I do believe, the people who say that women like more feminine men is a valid point.

Maybe we should start a "Brawny Man Sims" thread in peasantry!

[idtaminger]

Hmm. That theory does explain the whole historical "beauties" bit. Almost every single person rumoured to be a "beauty" in history has been plain, kinda pretty at best, IMO.

And maybe the male selection is so girly b/c pretty boys are just more attractive. Someone like "Ah-nould" does not make me feel all tingly inside. The most physically "masculine" that's still hot, IMO, is someone like Wentworth Miller or Channing Tatum. Beyond that and it's kinda icky. Just my opinion though.

[vcline]

Check out ThyGuy's self-sim at
http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php/topic,6355.0.html
Looks pretty rugged to me.  Maybe some other self-sims are in the masculine/not-pretty range.

[OpiumGirl]

I learned in my biological anthropology courses that each generation of male has successively more feminine features. The average current male facial structure resembles what the female facial structure looked like about 3 generations back. What women look like now, will be what men may look like in about 50-70 years if the trend continues.

Most of the anthropologists that I saw speak on the subject tended to think it was because women are unconsciously selecting to mate with men that are less "threatening." While they may at times be attracted to the "rugged" type, they tend to select men that are less physically threatening or able to hurt them. This is especially prevalent in the last century as "ruggedness" was no longer a good indicator that a man could provide. In fact, ruggedness is now being selected against, as more and more men are earning money in "soft" professions.

Awesome information...  Just the sort of thing I was hoping to get from people here.

[SimJymm]

I learned in my biological anthropology courses.....

Indeed!  What an interesting concept.

[Stitches]

I learned in my biological anthropology courses.....

Indeed!  What an interesting concept.

That I learned, or that it was anthropology?
Because both can be explained.

[SimJymm]

  I found the theory very interesting. What might have confused the issue was my incomplete quoting of your post. Sorry for the confusion.

[MaximilianPS]

intresting indeed...
maybe it's a way to meet the peace on the world, my mother say it's the men that made wars
or maybe in 1000years we will have a sort fo amazon's planet 

[J. M. Pescado]

I wouldn't worry about that. The trend should reverse itself in the next 10 years when girlymen fall out of favor in as people struggle to survive in the wasteland that will follow the collapse of modern society and people have to kill each other over what is left to survive.

[laeshanin]

It also answers the age old question: where are all the hotties in history?

Answer: Didn't exist. Everyone was ugly and didn't know better. Mona Lisa was probably the smokin'est babe Da Vinci could find to paint.

Not so... It's just that the perception of "beauty" has changed along with society. Those hotties were there it's simply that different criteria were needed to make it to those exalted ranks and you only have to check out paintings from various different artists - spread across the centuries - to verify this. Most notable is Rembrandt whose personal choice was for ladies that tended to be on the wholesome side.  Anyhoo, beauty is very much an individual perspective and it differs from culture to culture hugely, as well as being somewhat muteable within our own jaded societal experience.

[jsalemi]

Very true -- the Rubenesque women that were the beauties in Ruben's day would be considered overweight, if not downright fat, today.  Which is a pity, because the rail-thin 'ideal woman' the fashion industry pushes today just doesn't appeal to me (and probably most men).  Ya need something to hold on to, after all.

[Stitches]

It also answers the age old question: where are all the hotties in history?

Answer: Didn't exist. Everyone was ugly and didn't know better. Mona Lisa was probably the smokin'est babe Da Vinci could find to paint.

Not so... It's just that the perception of "beauty" has changed along with society. Those hotties were there it's simply that different criteria were needed to make it to those exalted ranks and you only have to check out paintings from various different artists - spread across the centuries - to verify this. Most notable is Rembrandt whose personal choice was for ladies that tended to be on the wholesome side.  Anyhoo, beauty is very much an individual perspective and it differs from culture to culture hugely, as well as being somewhat muteable within our own jaded societal experience.

Well, absolutely. I was just being facetious.   Beauty is a completely relative concept and has evolved along side our morphology. The modern Western ideal of beauty (because while not everyone agrees on what is beautiful, there are certain people that are largely accepted as so) did not exist in the time of Rembrant because those physical characteristics didn't exist in the general populace. In it's context, Primavera is the Renaissance ideal of feminine beauty. Most modern viewers, however, might decide that she was decidedly plain. Hence, Mona Lisa was probably pretty hot though I'd be hard pressed to name a person in my intimate circle that would want to hit that.

Certainly, by their time's standards, there are beautiful people in history. When we look at art, we tend to wonder where all the good looking people are because our standard has evolved with each generation. Anthropologists can easily take human skulls and show that evolution is occurring in the human form within our lifetimes. This means that our ideal of beauty is not just a culturally perpetrated ideal, but a result of our changing biology. I adore this particular theory because it's the best support for evolutionary theory: evolution you can see by comparing human skulls within the last hundred years rather than having to venture to prehistory.

[Batelle]

Certainly, by their time's standards, there are beautiful people in history.

Judging by the ten dollar bill, Alexander Hamilton was one handsome founding father.

[OpiumGirl]

It also answers the age old question: where are all the hotties in history?
Answer: Didn't exist. Everyone was ugly and didn't know better. Mona Lisa was probably the smokin'est babe Da Vinci could find to paint.

I had a good laugh over this comment!  Heehee...
I do think to a certain degree, that it's true. Even though people's perception of beauty changes, I still believe that people become more and more genetically beautiful, especially since people are now breeding with people of different nationalities which seems to make some of the most beautiful children.
So, even though Stitches was being funny, this is partially true.

[Rose Outlaw]

I wouldn't worry about that. The trend should reverse itself in the next 10 years when girlymen fall out of favor in as people struggle to survive in the wasteland that will follow the collapse of modern society and people have to kill each other over what is left to survive.

Point taken.
They wouldn't make good food, though, those girlymen. Who wants skin and bones after all?

[idtaminger]

Judging by the ten dollar bill, Alexander Hamilton was one handsome founding father.

Oh, I totally had the hots for Alexander Hamilton when I was studying him in HS. Lol. And speaking of beautiful dead pple, the Romanovs were gorgeous too.

Very true -- the Rubenesque women that were the beauties in Ruben's day would be considered overweight, if not downright fat, today.  Which is a pity, because the rail-thin 'ideal woman' the fashion industry pushes today just doesn't appeal to me (and probably most men).  Ya need something to hold on to, after all.

Among the heavier set there are beauties and there are fuglies, as w/ skinny folks. Beauties can be fat, and fuglies can be skinny. I mean, none of those townie sims w/ the perfect bodies and neanderthal faces could possibly be deemed beautiful. So I don't think our attitude towards weight is sufficient at all to suggest that our perception of beauty itself has changed. Rather, it seems to be more a reflection of the fashion of the period. Not to say that our perception of beauty hasn't changed, of course. Just that the way we regard weight isn't enough to support this assumption.

And on a related note, I hate how pple love to bash on the skinny folks. There are lots of naturally skinny girls out there. LOTS. Just b/c America is so frigging HUGE doesn't mean that "real" women are chubby, and anyone skinny is automatically a sheepie drone who willingly starves herself to oblivion. I love how so many pple who say that "real" women come in all sizes seem to be oblivious to the fact that yes, real women do come in all sizes, on both sides of the size spectrum. And I also love how some of those who criticize anorexically skinny ias disgustingly and dangerously unhealthy seem to have no problem w/ the grossly overweight. I mean, gosh, hypocritical much?

That wasn't directed at anyone here, btw., just a very frustrated rant on the general attitudes that seem to prevail when it comes to issues of weight.

[Stitches]

Skinny girls have feelings too! 

[Rose Outlaw]

Some of the nicest and sweetest girls I know are extremely skinny.
Still I feel kinda strange when I hug them.

[Shivani]

And on a related note, I hate how pple love to bash on the skinny folks. There are lots of naturally skinny girls out there. LOTS. Just b/c America is so frigging HUGE doesn't mean that "real" women are chubby, and anyone skinny is automatically a sheepie drone who willingly starves herself to oblivion. I love how so many pple who say that "real" women come in all sizes seem to be oblivious to the fact that yes, real women do come in all sizes, on both sides of the size spectrum.

I find this hilarious considering I'm one of those more or less naturally skinny girls (and according to Pescado's reckoning, I'll be 36 for a few more years yet).  My aunt, who used to be thin, blurfed up due to a medical issue, and now keeps giving me the eye and asking my mum (behind my back) if I'm anorexic.  *gasps*

Related to the topic, however, I personally don't get a lot out of 'rugged good looks.'  I frequently think they look mean, or intimidating, or flat out unattractive.  Give me Cloud Strife (of Advent Children, naturally) any day of the week.  I tend to appreciate features that mix the best of both genders.  I mean, Arnold might have had a fantastic build, but I'd run in fear of my life if I was ever confronted with that monstrosity trying to get in my bed.

(Having said that, I've always gone for tall, thin, geeky blonds, but married a shorter, somewhat hefty, geeky brunette.)

[J. M. Pescado]

Related to the topic, however, I personally don't get a lot out of 'rugged good looks.'  I frequently think they look mean, or intimidating, or flat out unattractive.

Looking mean and intimidating is sort of the point. It scares off the predators. I even like my women to look mean and intimidating. You know, with teeth, spinities, and angry eyebrows.

[Shivani]

Looking mean and intimidating is sort of the point. It scares off the predators. I even like my women to look mean and intimidating. You know, with teeth, spinities, and angry eyebrows.

Yes, but you're like.. a legend in your own mind.  Of course you want women of that sort.

[Sleepycat]

I perfer manly men with facial hair and chest hair.

[jsalemi]

And on a related note, I hate how pple love to bash on the skinny folks. There are lots of naturally skinny girls out there. LOTS. Just b/c America is so frigging HUGE doesn't mean that "real" women are chubby, and anyone skinny is automatically a sheepie drone who willingly starves herself to oblivion. I love how so many pple who say that "real" women come in all sizes seem to be oblivious to the fact that yes, real women do come in all sizes, on both sides of the size spectrum. And I also love how some of those who criticize anorexically skinny ias disgustingly and dangerously unhealthy seem to have no problem w/ the grossly overweight. I mean, gosh, hypocritical much?

Oh, I have no problem with naturally skinny women, but even then most of them are more than a size 0 or 1. Hell, I heard or read somewhere that some of those models' sizes are in the minus number sizes, which I didn't even think was possible.  It's the unhealthy extremes I was commenting about, and yes, that goes both ways.  We do have a serious problem in this country with obesity, which becomes very obvious when visiting any other country, or just going to any Disney or Universal theme park -- probably any theme park at all.

[Shivani]

I perfer manly men with facial hair and chest hair.

For sure, so long as that doesn't translate to hairy backs!