Pinstar's new Apocalypse challenge

[rohina]

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha. That is hilarious.

[Avalikia]

Question for Pinstar: is it legitimate for the founder to bring back a crashed satellite from college? I sure hope so because otherwise poor Stephan Lawson's sacrifice will have been in vain.

That brings to mind something that I've been wanting to point out.  Pinstar, when using the comments of people in this forum in order to decide whether or not something is or is not allowed, it's good to keep in mind that there are a lot of Awesome people here.  Specifically, we're a rather inventive bunch that can find creative ways of doing things that your average person would have never thought of.  It is my contention that this should be allowed because it's not only an unreliable strategy if you're trying to do it on purpose, it also wouldn't occur to most people.  Perhaps if you're worried about copycats, you could have a few rules like this: "(Whatever they did) is a valid strategy.  However, it took a great deal of creativity to think of it so (the person that thought of it) is allowed to use it and anyone who came up with it themselves can as well, but if it you're just hearing about it here you're not allowed to use it."  That would seem perfectly fair to me.  Even so, if someone finds something like this that makes the challenge too easy, it won't be fun and they'll probably decide the strategy isn't worth it.  It's the more obvious flaws that you should worry about.  Of course, all this is just my opinion and it's your challenge so my opinion only matters as much as you want it to.

[J. M. Pescado]

Question for Pinstar: is it legitimate for the founder to bring back a crashed satellite from college? I sure hope so because otherwise poor Stephan Lawson's sacrifice will have been in vain.

I'm sure it is. The Satellite isn't exactly a USEFUL item, so why you'd be bringing back that useless thing is unknown to me, though.

[Sagana]

Specifically, we're a rather inventive bunch that can find creative ways of doing things that your average person would have never thought of.

Feeling a wee bit full of yourself? Sims players aren't "average" people anyway and there are creative simmers all over the place. Trying to write rules based on who thought of something first - that'd be fun. Fortunately it doesn't seem likely anyone wuold try to set it up that way.

Anyone know if Maxis did away with the penalty for being late to work? I sent my challenge founder on her first Monday, which made her a couple of hours late (after she waited for the paper and found the job) and no problem, immediately promoted. Then later in the week, she came home at 4 promoted to a position that would have kept her at work until 6, so I sent her right back again (about 6 hours late, I guess) and she got promoted again. No messages about being late either time. Made for quick work reaching the top of the career.

I don't *think* I have any hacks that would do that, but I guess I could - should remove them and try it again, but those're the only sims in the neighborhood at the moment (well, other'n zombies and reavers and a few left-over townies) and I don't wanna mess up my challenge testing it.

[Alvaron]

Question for Pinstar: is it legitimate for the founder to bring back a crashed satellite from college? I sure hope so because otherwise poor Stephan Lawson's sacrifice will have been in vain.

I'm sure it is. The Satellite isn't exactly a USEFUL item, so why you'd be bringing back that useless thing is unknown to me, though.

It is when your female founder's intended hubby is a downtownie who's a mad scientist. Since I don't have OFB with all its uberl33t coolness, I have to slog my way through and, if I hafta slog, then I'd rather have the bunny inside.

[Sagana]

Call me slow, but I still don't get it. You're using the satellite to fulfill a want? If the hubby's already at the top of the career line, does't matter much if their wants are filled or not - the spouse is only useful for unrestricting stuff and providing as many simlets as possible. After they reach the tops, they can be as miserable as you can stand (stop yelling at me, I don't care if you're dirty without issue. (Well you do have to make sure the female lives through the pregnancies, but it doesn't have to be really fun for her.)

Of course, it's as useful as what I brought - an energizer and an elixir. I haven't touched either. Just didn't need them. Meditate works as well as snapdragons for the founder (not for the kidlets, of course, but that's another issue). My founder came home plat, and just stayed that way by meditating through the first week, with the occasional fill-her-up from her fiance (she's family, so she had plenty of wants with him). Hit the top quickly, married and pregnant immediately, quit her job and her hubby's already at the top of his - so he's pretty useless other than to create spawn. I'm gonna put him in crime because he wants it and when the kids are teens, they can get a crime teen job and use the career reward. I wish she'd have twins. I also wish I'd brought a smart milk. Toddlers take too long to train and it eats up 3/4s of their want slots. Might unlock science quicker than I intended to get one.

[Eleonora]

Sending a Mad Scientist to work with a satellite in his inventory will unlock the alien technology restriction, so you won't have to get your sim abducted, which is a huge gamble.

[Sagana]

Oh I forgot about that, thanks :)

[Sketch Elder]

Don't the rules already cover this?
"This satellite must originate from the family's lot."
I don't see how you can twist that into "this satellite can be brought from somewhere else."

[Alvaron]

Don't the rules already cover this?
"This satellite must originate from the family's lot."
I don't see how you can twist that into "this satellite can be brought from somewhere else."

Well, duh, yeah, the moved-in dormie was killed on her lot (I even erected a monument to the poor guy ). The fact that it happened while she was at University is irrelevant. Now maybe you think that this restriction applies to the so-called "legacy" lot and, if so, that's okay by me, but that's not what Pinstar said. I take this restriction to mean that if you find a crashed satellite elsewhere than where the family is living, you can't use that one.

[J. M. Pescado]

Yes, but the rules don't state you can't bring the satellite with you.

[Kyna]

You moved in a dormie who got killed by the satellite? 

Looking at the rules:

"The ONLY Sims that may be moved into the Legacy family are Sims that will directly contribute to the birth of the next generation"

"This satellite must originate from the family's lot"

My take on this would be if you're going to define the family lot as the pre-disaster lot at college, then you also have to use the same definition of family for the 'who can move in' rule.  The dead dormie would have to father the next generation.

[J. M. Pescado]

Well, the problem with that rule is that it doesn't cover the obvious case where someone is moved in with the intent of contributing, but manages to die before making the contribution. Obviously that rule is clearly flawed and vague.

[kutto]

Also, the college lot is free from restriction, as the disaster has not yet occured.

[Kyna]

Also, the college lot is free from restriction, as the disaster has not yet occured.

Actually it's not.  There are some rules that apply to the founder at college.  E.g. the founder may not found or join a Greek House, and then there's the new rule about the founder can only have 8 semesters at college.

I think the satellite thing could work though, if you resurrected the dormie at the SS lot, and they became the founder's spouse.  Unless Pinstar rules otherwise of course.

Obviously that rule is clearly flawed and vague.

I've found a couple of flawed and vague rules.  I'm not sure if they're deliberate loopholes or not. 

As an example, the business restriction stops you from selling items via buy or build tab, or using the sell interaction with objects such as the workbenches or easel.  But it doesn't restrict deleting from the inventory, for which you get cash equal to the current sell value of the object - effectively selling the object.  Any object you can place in inventory (i.e. only 1 tile objects before athletic is lifted) could be sold this way.

Another example - the crime restriction says you must replace objects with the exact same objects when paying protection money.  But it doesn't say they need to be placed in the exact same position.  So before you lift the crime restriction you could use that to get around the athletic restriction that stops you from moving large objects.

[rhodaloo]

I decided to replace cheap items with more expensive items.  I figured the "Family" would want a bigger cut of my Sims' money. I also thought of the same crime work around that Kyna mentioned.

Only five more careers to unlock! 

[Treehugger]

I've nearly finished this challenge, I have 1 restriction still to lift (paranormal). I sort of lost count of the days but I think it's been about 80 days so far.

The restrictions were lifted by:
1 Janet Keen (founder) - Natural Science (and of course hopelessness)
2 Leonid Keen (founder's spouse) - medical
3 Leonid Keen (founder's spouse) - alien technology
4 Joshua Keen (2nd gen) - military
5 David Keen (2nd gen) - politics
6 Jonathon Keen (2nd gen) - slacker
7 Daniel Keen (2nd gen) - Science
8 Matthew Keen (2nd gen heir) - crime
9 Robin Keen (2 gen spouse) - business
10 Hope Keen (2 gen) - Show Business
11 Nathan Keen (2 gen) - culinary
12 Aroha Keen (2 gen) - Athletics
13 Faith Keen (2nd gen) - Law
14 Astra Keen (3rd gen - Daniel's alien abduction daughter) -art

Which leave either Michael Keen (3rd gen - Matthew and Robin's son) or Epiphany (2nd gen) to lift the final restriction.  I think for poetic reasons it will be Epiphany.

Just had to crow.

[Alvaron]

Well, the problem with that rule is that it doesn't cover the obvious case where someone is moved in with the intent of contributing, but manages to die before making the contribution. Obviously that rule is clearly flawed and vague.

J.M. sees the same loophole in the rules that I did. I used the "intended to marry" clause to move in the dormie then proceeded to stargaze with him until he got mashed flat by falling debris (gosh, I just love that death -- it's always such a surprise. Ka-pow and it's Reaper time!  ) He wasn't her intended so if he failed "The Test", he would've suffered burnination before she graduated. Look at it this way: the guy was a Romance sim and he thought she was the bomb. 

I'm very sure Pinstar didn't intend for you to bring back a satellite. What I'm really trying to do is get him to clarify the rules. Not so much that it eliminates clever strategies but so that players can understand them without hair removal. At my age, loss of more hair is something I prefer to avoid. 

In my "sneaky" attempt at the challenge (with Uni+NL, no OFB), I'm in Eclectic Energizer cruise mode on Day 34, having unlocked 8 restrictions (in order, Medical, Science, Slacker, Military, Athletics, Culiinary, Life of  Crime, Business). I could grind on but, barring disease, there's no way the founder will die (six tanks of elixir stashed in the attic) and it's literally a matter of counting days now: infant 3, child 5, teen 1 and return from college 1-3 depending on job offers for six more children. The second generation heiress will add two kids then she and her hubby will move out and the founder will have the final two children. I make it about twenty days more so 55-58 days depending on circumstances. An unfortunate birth of twins at the fifth conception slowed my overall progress as I had to wait for the first teens to finish out before the third generation heirs could be birthed. Family has 500k in the bank (and all the useless junk from the 2nd gen hubby's move-in dumped into the first move-out's inventory so no more 8k/week protection money) and there's no need for anyone to work except to unlock tracks. All chance cards get ignored so there's no chance of the level 9->10 finish out promotions getting screwed up. Rather than spending time watching my sims meditate at speed 3, I'll try the challenge again.

College life was a joke: my first two attendees each took a cell phone with them and dropped an eclectic energizer on the roof of the carport (house had no walls since no one was ever required to sleep). They owned a driveway, a car, a phone and a mirror that one of them wanted to filll a want -- okay, so I had one wall tile -- plus some stairs and posts. Their rent was 19 simoleons and the protection money for the car was around 250 per semester since they spent so much time at the LFT student union. It got boring once the Popularity sim permaplat'ed since he could grind out assignments until both students were ready for their final, then they'd mediate at warp speed until end of semester. Didn't take too long real-time but University is boring and this was exceptionally so. Rinse and repeat for the twins who followed them two days later.

One thing is certain: once you have the ability to travel downtown, your teen Sims can skill to their hearts content without time passing at home. This is handy since you need no skill items at home and once Culinary is unlocked allowing access to coffee and food, they go downtown and stay until all their required skills are in hand, then it's off to college with little or no time passing at home. Parents teach the children with unlocked career rewards then as teens they head downtown to finish skilling. It's efficient and takes little game time. Also, having teens go to college and re-appear back home on the same day feels...um... bogus ("Wow, Eric is back from college and all grown up and in less than a day!"). The lack of time synchrony between the "family" lot, downtown and college makes gameplay in the challenge feel artificial. I'd like to see some time synchrony rules added but I suppose others will not. I can play it either way.

One thing I did learn (again because I've learned this lesson before): Popularity sim with LTW "20 best friends" is a good aspiration/LTW combination. That, and Knowledge w/Max 7 are what you want for your teen sims. If you have the Orb, use it to get one of these two. I suppose you could make 100k w/a Fortune sim and permaplat in college that way but it takes too long in terms of your play time, IMO.

[Treehugger]

Very sneaky, Alvaron, very sneaky that business with the satellite, at least I lifted alien technology honestly!

Did you use elixer to accelerate the aging of the first bunch of teens? (before you lifted military and could send the younger teens to college.)

I found science (combined with the ability to send kids to college) to have a really dramatic effect on the speed that restrictions were lifted.  Most of the kids sent to college graduated summa cum laude with a major that would help them with their chosen career and maxed out in the skills needed for that career, once science was unlocked they got level nine jobs in their careers via the computer.  Hope, Aroha and Astra were only back in the household for a day before getting the big promotion.  Faith took a bit longer, she missed promotion on the first day and had to wait for the weekend to be over before she had another go.  After that I made certain that the returnees were platinum when they returned and sent them to meditate in a circle of snapdragons until their carpool arrived.

Rather than returning sims from college the same day I had the opposite situation I had to wait until  a slot was freed up in the household, either by sending a younger sibling to college or by a older sibling lifting their retriction and moving out, before I could sent a sim home from college.  When that happened I waited fro the returnee's chosen career was listed on the computer before they were returned.

How did your teens skill downtown?  You might need to check your downloads folder, apart from the uni lots I didn't think you could skill on a community lot without a hack. 

[Kyna]

Alvaron I was also wondering how you got your teens to skill downtown, or was it only the hidden skills (dance and pool) that your teens trained downtown?

I took out comm-lot skilling as I figured it was a hack that gives an unfair advantage, and my founder couldn't skill downtown while she was still at uni.

[travellersside]

or was it only the hidden skills (dance and pool) that your teens trained downtown?

You can also meditate downtown - handy, since it takes so long to hit the teleport function.

[Alvaron]

Very sneaky, Alvaron, very sneaky that business with the satellite, at least I lifted alien technology honestly!

That's me, Mr. Sneaky! 

Did you use elixer to accelerate the aging of the first bunch of teens? (before you lifted military and could send the younger teens to college.)

I did. If memory serves, I burned three tanks of elixir force-aging the first 2nd gen heir through puberty into adulthood. Her hubby was a high-level military type (with an inventory full of pricey junk ) so he unlocked Military not long after they married.

I found science (combined with the ability to send kids to college) to have a really dramatic effect on the speed that restrictions were lifted.

I agree that Science is critically important. It does little good to skill like crazy as toddlers and children then whip through university to graduate summa cum laude if, upon their return, they can't find the job they need to unlock their chosen track. The computer is insanely important and the newspaper is incredibly limp in terms of job offerings.

How did your teens skill downtown?  You might need to check your downloads folder, apart from the uni lots I didn't think you could skill on a community lot without a hack. 

I probably have Pescado's comm-lot skilling hack in there. I don't play without FFS's and Two-Jeff's critical bugfixes and it's likely that some of their hacks are in my downloads too. I'll wander through that folder and yank out the hacks but leave in the fixes.

[Alvaron]

I took out comm-lot skilling as I figured it was a hack that gives an unfair advantage, and my founder couldn't skill downtown while she was still at uni.

It does and that's why I'm gonna yank it as well.

I don't skill much on downtown lots actually. With aspiration points readily available to the founder from dating, it's faster in terms of play time to use the energizer and thinking caps while skilling at the founder's campus house. It takes less than 24 sim hours to max your coursework bar so you've two days to skill. You can do a lot of damage in terms of skill gains in two days, especially with Knowledge sims if they spin up skill-grinding wants.

[daedreem]

(sigh)

I love tough challenges...
But this one is
A) too hard to sort out and remember all the rules
B) the rules are too unclear.
(C- Kinda) I searched google, etc for the Lots and Zombie families mentioned in his rules, but not linked for some stupid reason, and couldn't find them anywhere
PLUS

I started the challenge yesterday, and when finding a rules omission or discrepensy was picking what seemed sensible to fill it in.
I searched google, etc for the Lots and Zombie families mentioned in his
I printed the rules around a week ago. I come HERE and Pinstar posted LOTS of rules clarifications that are NOT in the rules I printed out, despite the fact that rules that ARE in my printout are from AFTER the ones that aren't. (sigh)

I would keep going with my original challenge, which is going wonderfully and just ignore the things I've done that don't match the rules (Deciding the driveway, since there was no way to have it completely on your 8x8 lot, since it had to intersect the road, and it didn't need to be kept clear of possible ground pollutants anyway, counted the same as the mailbox/trash can/newspaper/homework and could be not counted in the 8x8 section, for instance.) except there is ONE rule I goofed up on that is severe enough to fail me on my first try. I forgot, and used the computer (AKA Typewriter) to get the founders jobs...  he reached the top of my chosen career in 3 days.
So... I guess I need to restart. (*I DON'T WANNA!!!* {cry} I have little enough time to play as it is! and I know I'll give this up and never come back when they introduce pets!)

I have another couple of questions though...
---Other than the snapdragons, is there ANY way to raise a childs hygeine?
After I realized I'd goofed up, I played a little bit without bothering to produce snapdragons (both flowers and business were unlocked) - When my toddlers hygeine was so low all he'd do was scream, only a slight problem...  Take away the potty so he'd wet his diaper, then change his diaper... Even without the changing table that gets you halfway up the hygeine bar.
But.
Once that toddler became a child, he was screwed. He would not spongebathe like his parents... he would 'wash hands' but even repeating the handwashing for an hour, it wouldn't make enough of a dent in his hygeine for him to be willing to do anything... it never made it from the red end of orange.
He wouldn't do his homework, failed school, and was taken away by the social worker.
(again, how do you explain THIS in a post apocalyptic world? Pinstar explained the need for constant supervision meant 'death' to the unsupervised child...  But what about not doing homework? what's the explaination there?)
Since this was a quick runthrough, (that ended up not quick, since I fought the boys hygeine the entire 3-4 days it took him to be taken by the social worker) I quit without saving, and now have a first day toddler again. (sigh)

-- Also, Is everyone playing towhere only the black grill can be used? I didn't realize until today that the grill that's only a couple simoleons more is the cheapest grill that can make ribs... I still followed the stipulations.. but since both it and the cheaper one was HUNGER 1, I wondered.

Must go sleep now...
but, for pinstar..

PINSTAR!!! PLEASE!!!!
Make sure all your clarifications get put in the rules!! And fix the NOT printer friendly version of your rules page so that the HERE's on the SS houses actually POINT to a way to find them!!!

[Kyna]

I built a house on stilts, above the driveway.  It's similar in design to Pinstar's witches house. 

I'm sure I saw the link to Pinstar's BBS page in this thread somewhere (near the beginning), the houses are on his BBS page.

The hygiene thing troubled me too.  I learnt that for me it's essential to make my founder or spouse medical. 

In one of my attempts (I've played this through 3 and a half times), the founder's firstborn was medical (this version of the challenge was done with a single female founder who was vamped, I made her military when I should have made her medical).  It took that firstborn sim FOREVER to hit the top of her career, as her moods were never good enough for daily promotion, and as a teen she didn't earn enough in scholarship money to go to uni. 

The thing that REALLY irritated me about they hygiene issues was having to use free will so that my sims would sponge bathe.  This challenge reminded me why I never use free will.  I started sending (teen and older) sims to the 2x1 room with the sink and locking them in, then turning free will on.  Not letting them out until they washed themselves and I'd turned free will off again.  Otherwise I'd find nearly full sims would head for the last plate of gelatin that was intended for a hungrier sim, or doing some silly, counterproductive action that Maxis thought we'd find "cute".

As for kids, I found they spent hours handwashing every day.  An hour or so before school, and several hours after they'd done their homework generally kept their hygiene in the yellow range.  Weekends they spent a good chunk of their days handwashing.  There was the odd day when they didn't do their homework, usually near the end of the week, but they caught up on weekends.  Once their hygiene gets into the red its very hard to lift it out, so I went to a lot of trouble to avoid that.

No doubt there's a more awesome solution to the kid hygiene issue that escapes me (besides snapdragons).