Yaaa! 'Smart Lights' updated to 'Smarter Lights!'

[jsalemi]

Numenor has released an updated version of Dizzy's 'Smart Lights' hack over on MTS2; in addition to being compatible with all the EPs, it's specifically designed to work with the Gunmod lighting to make sure the lights come on during the twilight hours when needed.

You can d/l it here: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=188024.

[RainbowTigress]

Thanks for letting us know, Joe!  I wouldn't have known this otherwise.  I can't find good stuff at MTS2 unless someone posts a link.

[kutto]

Excellent. And just as I was starting to get fed up with manually turning on lights. 

[J. M. Pescado]

I just leave them on all the time, it's easier that way. For some reason even rooms with a window in them are pitch black in the broad daylight.

[dizzy]

Does this have that infamous pool light problem? I notice Numenor added this to the Init semiglobal:

Code:

     C: Me == My lead tile object ID (0x13); true: D, false: true
     D: semiglobal.0x200F(Me, Stack Object, Stack Object, Stack Object); true: true, false: error

I should check this out.

Another thing. I'm sure I mentioned this elsewhere but this hack will conflict with Pescado's commlightson hack.

[jsalemi]

Another thing. I'm sure I mentioned this elsewhere but this hack will conflict with Pescado's commlightson hack.

The new version, you mean, or your original?  I had some conflicts with the original not working, and solved them by making sure it loaded last, after commlightson.  That gave me the best of both worlds.

[dizzy]

The new version is just slightly different in the Init function. Otherwise, it seems to be just like the old version.

[jsalemi]

I'll try it with and without the commlightson hack and see if it makes a difference. Like your original, I have the new one set to load last.

[RainbowTigress]

Please let us know what you find, Joe.

[syberspunk]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that... if two hacks modify the same BHAV(s), then the effects of whichever hack loads last will supercede any changes by the hack that loads first.

So... in the case where the 2nd hack modifies all the BHAVs of the 1st hack, it is pointless to keep the 1st hack in. It is basically just taking up space in your downloads folder.

In otherwords, if Hack A modifies BHAVs 1, 2, and 3 AND Hack B also modifies BHAVs 1, 2, and 3 but in a different way, it would be pointless to keep Hack A in your downloads folder, because essentially it wouldn't be doing anything but taking up space.

This also applies if Hack B modifies the same BHAVs as Hack A and more, let's say the same scenario as above, but Hack B also modifies BHAVs 4, 5, and 6. It still would be pointless to keep Hack A in your downloads folder.



On the other hand, if the 2nd hack only modifies some of the BHAVs in the 1st hack, and you want to keep those changes as well, Only then does it make sense to keep BOTH hacks in your downloads folder.

In otherwords, if Hack A modifies BHAVs 1, 2, and 3 and Hack B Only modifies BHAV 1, keeping both hacks in your folder would lead to Hack B taking precedence of Hack A with respect to BHAV 1.


I'm not trying to like be condescending or anything, I just want to make sure I've understood it correctly, or if all this time I've just totally misinterpreted how things work. Which is quite possible. Heh.

Ste

[KittKitt]

Corrent me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that... if two hacks modify the same BHAV(s), then the effects of whichever hack loads last will supercede any changes by the hack that loads first.

I believe that is essentially correct, yes.

So if hack A and hack B both modify identical sets of BHAVs (or if A modifies exactly what B modifies plus a few), then you only need A (Unless you like B better and can live without whatever additions A offers of course).

You can (and probably should) use both if each of them modify at least one BHAV that the other does not, and you would probably want  to force the one that makes (in your eyes) the "most favorable overall" modifications to load last. (Add a 'Z' or three to the beginning of the name and plop 'em both in the same sub-folder will do it).

At least, that's been my working understanding to this point, and it always seems to bear out without problems.  Amazingly, I'm among the apparently very few folks who (despite being neck-deep in hacks), has not yet had my game explode in a big firey ball visible from space. 

Of course, I've been known to be wrong, so if I'm talking maxian, someone slap me around with a fish and correct me please. 

Edit: I forgot..  I just updated this package and as I'm here on the boards, I haven't looked in game yet, but if anyone already happens to know...

Does this new version incorporate auto-lights to the fancy disco-style ones?  I use those here and there, and it drives me nuts that those won't turn on and off when sims come in/leave a room like everything else does. 

-Kitt

[RainbowTigress]

I've been using Pescado's and TwoJeff's hacks almost since I started playing the game.  The Pleasantview neighborhood I've been playing since the beginning of 2005 is still running fine.  I've only taken a bit of time here and there to play other neighborhoods, and I have played several hours almost every day.  The first problem I ever had was the "chat bug," and Pescado's chatfix solved that until Maxis finally got around to fixing it themselves.    The second major bug was the Greek House Level Six bug, and I went to look for a fix, and Pescado had one.  If it weren't for that, I think I'd have been so disappointed in the game that I'd have quit playing.  So I think my game runs well because of the hacks I've put in, not in spite of them.  I am very choosy about the hacks I use, though.

[nataku]

I'm glad this hack has been updated, it's one of my favorite hacks though if you asked me why I know I wouldn't be able to give a reason.

Amazingly, I'm among the apparently very few folks who (despite being neck-deep in hacks), has not yet had my game explode in a big firey ball visible from space. 

I've not had any game destroying problems with my neighborhoods, and I have a lot of hacks, but that is probably because I pretty much only use hacks by creators found here, a few that are endorsed by MATY creators and the odd 1 or 2 others (but I always check into their other work to see how reliable and stable they are).

Approximately 97% of my hacks are fixes to bugs, annoying features or unrealistic behaviors while approximately 3% are completely and utterly frivilous.

I think it also helps that I absolutely refuse to use Insiminator which clashes with sooo many hacks I find it rediculous and the thing is so huge and invasive in your game that it seems inevitable to me that something is going to go kaplooie.

I think it's so much better and so much safer to use smaller more focused hacks that, if they're causing problems, can be taken out without losing much functionality from your game whereas a huge hack like Insim, if it's causing problems and you take it out, you lose a whole lot more from your games functionality and features.

Dont modders ever get frustrated at having to work around that thing? I find it annoying that so many modders wont make a certain type of hack just because Insim has that feature in it, but what about the people who dont use/want it? I hate seeing an interesting hack request and the requester saying "I know Insim does this but I dont want to use Insim" and people STILL say, "use Insim", dont they read or are these the people that dont R.T.F.M.? And the hack never gets made because Insim already does it or some second rate hacker makes one and it doesn't ever work properly. That seems so stupid to me. People who dont use Insim should be able to have those options too and I'd much rather they came from a reliable modder.

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this post into a rant against Insim. 

[jsalemi]

I'm not trying to like be condescending or anything, I just want to make sure I've understood it correctly, or if all this time I've just totally misinterpreted how things work. Which is quite possible. Heh.

Ste

No, you're right, and in this case, I believe that your second scenario applies -- commlightson and smart lights have some BHAVs in common, but also some that are different, as far as I can tell. So there's a benefit to keeping both in.

And if I'm wrong, there's no harm leaving commlightson in, since the package is really tiny anyway.

[RainbowTigress]

I've been using the InSim almost as long as I've been using hacks, and I've not had any problems with it.  It is well-tested, and the creator does a great job of supporting it and fixing any problems that users might find.   I think that as long as people RTFM and check with the creator if they have a problem, they should be fine.  I know a few others who use InSim without problems.  I know JM considers it to be non-Awesome(tm), but that's JM's opinion on pretty much anything that doesn't come from MATY.  I don't think InSim itself is the cause of people's games turning into a BFBVFS.  If it does, it's because of a user who used it improperly.  The same thing could happen with "boolprop" (testingcheats) incorrectly.  The mod is a tool, and any tool can cause major damage if used incorrectly.

[jsalemi]

I think it's so much better and so much safer to use smaller more focused hacks that, if they're causing problems, can be taken out without losing much functionality from your game whereas a huge hack like Insim, if it's causing problems and you take it out, you lose a whole lot more from your games functionality and features.

I think you're confusing the insimenator with the inteenimator.  Insim doesn't really do anything unless you call it up and manually take an action with it -- it's just a tool that gives you easy access to stuff you could do with the testing cheats anyway.  Inteen (aka, the kitten killer) is a global mod that does affect things throughout the game, and can conflict with many other hacks and mods.  So long as someone reads the manual before using it, and understands its effects, it usually doesn't cause problems.  If it does, jase is usually pretty quick in providing a fix.

But yes, there are also smaller hacks that do parts of what inteen does, such as Jen Flower's woohoo_teens and TJ's same-sex pregnancy. It really comes down to the choice of the user as to how much or how little they want to add to their game.

[syberspunk]

No, you're right, and in this case, I believe that your second scenario applies -- commlightson and smart lights have some BHAVs in common, but also some that are different, as far as I can tell. So there's a benefit to keeping both in.

And if I'm wrong, there's no harm leaving commlightson in, since the package is really tiny anyway.

Whew. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't going crazy. I only posted because I get paranoid if I am wrong about understanding certain things, which may have resulted in me contributing to the further dissemination of misinformation. And when I read that you keep both smart-lights And commlightson at the same time, it gave me pause. I had to wonder if there is any real practical reason to keeping both in.

Just to confirm my suspicions, commlightson only modifies 1 single BHAV, which is included in smart-lights (even the newer Numenorian version). So... while it is harmless to keep a small file like commlightson in your game, it really doesn't do anything. Removing it probably wouldn't significantly reduce loading times in any perceivable manner. The only reason I would caution against doing such things is... that since certain hacks depend on load order, those who are not as well-informed may tend to keep hacks that overlap or conflict, not realizing that there is a load order dependency. And... if they don't organize their hacks in a proper way, then they may get unexpected behaviour where certain hacks may not appear to be working.

And I was also going to point out, that there seems to be some confusion between InSim and InTeen. InSim used to be all conflicty, but has now been rewritten in such a way that it pretty much doesn't conflict with anything really. Especially if you use the self-contained OBJ or DEST versions. InTeen on the other hand is another story. And while it may be a concern for some modders, it really isn't that big of a deal, since for the most part, it tends to remain focused on Teen Relationshippy related stuff. And there are only a few hacks that deal with general modifications of relationshippy stuff that InTeen might conflict with. In those rare cases, it's just a matter of preferential choice for the end user. I think a bigger problem is when certain modders make tons of hacks that end up conflicting with other hacks, especially areas that may have already been covered by existing hacks.

Ste

[dizzy]

Another thing that complicates matters is the fact that many people use subfolders, and that can change the load order.

[nataku]

I think you're right Jsalami, I was mixing them up. I was really only using it as an example anyway because it's one of the most visible ones. It's so big it actually hinders how I can customize my game rather than enhancing it. Bottomline, because InTeen and other huge hacks do so much, no one or hardly anyone, is willing to do anything in those areas because it's "already been done". There are features of InTeen that I'd like to have (it's the only hack I know of that allows teen pregnancy), there are somethings I dont want at all, and I dont like how the hack actually works, the bio clock is clever but I dont want to use it and I'm not sure if thats optional or not because I can't seem to find a list of features available in Inteen let alone a manual without downloading the thing. I'm blind I think or maybe just too tired. But because it's all bundled together it's all or nothing (not including the optional flavor paks- but even those aren't stand alone). I kind of feel that way about Macrotastics too. *shrugs*

I think a bigger problem is when certain modders make tons of hacks that end up conflicting with other hacks, especially areas that may have already been covered by existing hacks.

This is the line of thinking I am protesting, no one doing anything because there is already an existing hack. I realize when you have 10 modders making different versions of the same hack not everything is going to work together and that's not what you want. But say you have some modders get together to work on a project where they're making hacks of a specific type and each one does something different in that type and each one is completely standalone from the others, i.e. you dont have to have any of those others if you dont want them, but because they're working together on a project the modders are also being careful to make sure the hacks work together without conflict except in cases of deliberate intent between certain hacks that are supposed to do opposing things and be used as an either/or. How is that really any different from those huge projects object modders get together and do? Wouldn't that be challenging for hackers to work on? And they could pick each others brains, maybe get a fresh perspective on something, because there'd have to be a lot of collaboration.

Variety and customization is the spice (to me atleast) of The Sims 2, but where is it? I'm stuck with an existing version that doesn't really do what I need it to and nothing else.

Ah well, I'm done. I did not mean to derail this thread, though lol derailed threads do seem to happen quite often here. I've said my piece. Just for the record though, I'm not criticizing Jase or anything, I dont want anyone to think that, he's a good modder and I'd take his advice on a lot of hack related issues if he offered it. My eyes are starting cross though, I'm so tired, so I'm off to bed.

[KittKitt]

Another thing that complicates matters is the fact that many people use subfolders, and that can change the load order.

Indeed, and almost always does.  The trick, of course, is that if you do use subs, then any hacks which have potential conflicts need to be arranged properly.  Either putting them in the same folder and naming the one you want "dominant" with a higher letter (Z or whatnot), or stacking those in deeper folders and the like.

If you have a good working knowledge of how windows file access works as well as how The Sims 2 loads its data, it's not really that tricky, but understandably many people don't really know a lot about all the nuts and bolts and just want the silly thing to work.

Anyways, the main reason I popped back in was to answer my own earlier question.  From what I can see, this updated version doesn't do anything with the 'disco' lights either, which I sort of suspected would be the case.  I've never ripped into those to see what they're all about, but just the different timings and all that stuff they incorporate led me to suspect they wouldn't get lumped in with general lights.  Pity. 

Oh, and since you popped in Dizzy.. gives me a good opportunity to say a thanx for not only the original of this, but several other hacks and mods and such I've snagged of yours over the years to boot. 

(yah, I know.. we have a thanks button, but eh.. It'd feel a little silly to go try to find where those things are all originally posted and retro-thank now, noi?)

And... since we've had yet another reply about the Insim/Inteen yadda while I was posting...

Insiminator is really pretty hard to conflict with.  It's been done and re-done so as to remain as self contained as possible, and even though it can affect self and destination pies, it doesn't really blow anything up unless you're really not paying attention.  Inteen however is a kitten of entirely another color.

The notion that Inteen is the only method to get pregnant teens ithat's what you want is however quite false, IIRC.  I'm pretty sure you can combine Woohoo Teens (or possibly even LizzLove's bed that'll let 'em interact as if they're adults) and drop in twojeffs' Pregnancy for all mod and viola.  Preggo teens.

Personally, I never had any trouble when I did use Inteen for some specific story work I did ages back, but if you've got something blowing up and it's anywhere in your downloads tree, that should be your very first thing to check.

-Kitt

[syberspunk]

It's so big it actually hinders how I can customize my game rather than enhancing it. Bottomline, because InTeen and other huge hacks do so much, no one or hardly anyone, is willing to do anything in those areas because it's "already been done".

Hrm. Well... I think it's kind of unfair to talk about something that you really don't know much about other than hearsay. It's all fun in games, (with some, but not all) for people here to poke fun and call it a kitten killer and what not, but just because Pescado gives it his official stamp of grouchy and dowdy disapproval doesn't make InTeen the devil of hacks that it appears to be. Just like rainbow was pointing out, just because a lot of uneducated and/or misinformed people tend to blame "boolprop" for causing game problems, I think it's unfair to just lay blame on InTeen all the time just because uninformed users run into what they think are problems but are actually features of the hack, which they would have known if they just RTFM'd.

There are features of InTeen that I'd like to have (it's the only hack I know of that allows teen pregnancy), there are somethings I dont want at all, and I dont like how the hack actually works, the bio clock is clever but I dont want to use it and I'm not sure if thats optional or not because I can't seem to find a list of features available in Inteen let alone a manual without downloading the thing. I'm blind I think or maybe just too tired. But because it's all bundled together it's all or nothing (not including the optional flavor paks- but even those aren't stand alone).

You do know that you Can download the files without necessarily installing them in your game, right? If you are that concerned about it, then educate yourself and take the time to actually RTFM. The manual is pretty detailed and well written, outlying all features and possible conflicts. At least that's how it was the last time I read it. Admittedly, I don't use it myself, but I've kept decent tabs on its development, and was around during the early stages of its development. And incidentally, the point of the flavor paks is not to provide standalone functionality but to provide sort of customized modules to dis/enable specific key features. With a large, ambitious hack like InTeen, I think it is very generous of jase to be so amenable to providing a level of customization beyond the core features of the overall hack. The thing is, there's a plethora of people out there with just as many differeing styles of gameplay, so it's obvious that you just can't please 'em all. That was what the development/Q&A team was for, to try and come to a general consensus as best as possible. The flavor paks, as I understand it, were borne out of the need to dis/enable certain features that had been requested by a smaller, yet significant group of users. I definitely think this is more than fair of the creator to provide these options. As far as I'm concerned, jase has gone above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak, to satisfy as many customers as possible, and I find that quite admirable. And no, he did not pay me to say this, and no, I have no ulterior motive to brown-nose.

Anyways, I think most of the complains and frustration comes from users who don't seem to RTFM. They run into issues that they think are bugs, only to later realize that it is InTeen related, and quite often a feature rather than an actual bug. And what's even more frustrating, at least for some people here, is that these users don't seem to see the connection right away. Even moreso, the fact that it happens so frequently with these users, complaining about the same "problems" and not going to the proper place to begin with i.e. the home of the InTeen forums. Anyways, sorry to rant, and on both sides of the fence as well. It's just kind of a pet peeve of mine.

I kind of feel that way about Macrotastics too. *shrugs*

Well, the difference with macrotatics is that it is a standalone, self-contained hacked object that can sit in your game and will Never be self activated unless you direct your sims to use the macrotastic options yourself. In other words, it is virtually harmless to install in your game. And if there are ever any features that you don't like, you have the simple option to not use them.

This is the line of thinking I am protesting, no one doing anything because there is already an existing hack. I realize when you have 10 modders making different versions of the same hack not everything is going to work together and that's not what you want. But say you have some modders get together to work on a project where they're making hacks of a specific type and each one does something different in that type and each one is completely standalone from the others, i.e. you dont have to have any of those others if you dont want them, but because they're working together on a project the modders are also being careful to make sure the hacks work together without conflict except in cases of deliberate intent between certain hacks that are supposed to do opposing things and be used as an either/or. How is that really any different from those huge projects object modders get together and do? Wouldn't that be challenging for hackers to work on? And they could pick each others brains, maybe get a fresh perspective on something, because there'd have to be a lot of collaboration.

Collaborating on projects is all well and good, and there are some great examples of large, themed projects on MTS2. I tend to find that, with the exception of meshers working with bhav modders, hacking in general tends to be a solo effort really. Too many cooks and all. Although, I personally like to 'pick the brains' of people that would ultimately be my end users. And essentially... individual modders making their individual, stand alone hacks is effectively what you are describing. While modders may not actively collaborate together on major, theme related hacks, I find that the modding community, in general, as sort of a common courtesy, generally tend to not 'step on each others toes' so to speak.

I think this is in part, to be polite, but also a function of being practical. To paraphrase, why re-invent the wheel hack if a wheel hack already exists? I think, the only time it is useful to do something similiar or in the "same area" as something that already exists, is only if it is significantly different and offers end users an actual choice depending on their different styles of gameplay. Of course one can't always anticipate someone else making a similar hack or one that does the exact same thing, but at least for me, I check the usual "main" places to see if something already exists before I embark on project. And if such a hack exists, depending on whether or not it does what I want for my game and what the distribution/cloning/modifying policy is, I may end up using that hack or custom tailoring it to satifsy my own personal specifications. In general, I think that most modders kind of follow this unwritten policy out of respect for other people's work, as well as to carefully avoid potential conflicts to begin with, especially with pre-existing mods that are most likely popular and widely distributed.

Variety and customization is the spice (to me atleast) of The Sims 2, but where is it? I'm stuck with an existing version that doesn't really do what I need it to and nothing else.

Well... hacks are the customization. Sure they tend to be specific in many cases, but as I said, you can't always please them all. But the mere fact that they change the game, usually for the better, is pretty much the definition of customization in my eyes.

And the other thing that I learned is... if you just aren't finding the thing that you want to do the thing that you "need" in your game... and no one seems to be willing to create that thing for you, then you should pick up a few tutorials and learn how to do it yourself. In that respect, you have no one else to blame but yourself for being "stuck" with such limited options. In actuality, although it might help if you had a programming/computer/mathematical/techinical background, I personally feel that it actually isn't required. If you can read and have decent grasp of logic (I mean in the mathematical sense), it's not too hard to pick up modding. In the very least, it shouldn't be too hard to take existing mods that you like in general, but then tweak them for your own personal tastes.

Oh, and I hope that, in no way do I come off as condescending and pedantic as this all seems in my head right now. Think of it more as debatey rather than preachy.

Ste

ETA:

PS. I also don't presume to speak for the modding community as a whole. As always, any opinions expressed in my posts are purely my own and no one else should be held responsible for my pseudo intellectually psychobabbley madman ramblings.

[jsalemi]

Just to confirm my suspicions, commlightson only modifies 1 single BHAV, which is included in smart-lights (even the newer Numenorian version). So... while it is harmless to keep a small file like commlightson in your game, it really doesn't do anything. Removing it probably wouldn't significantly reduce loading times in any perceivable manner.

Thanks, Ste -- that's why you're approacing awesomeness, and I'm one of the great unwashed masses.   So I can pull out commlightson, and not give it another thought...

FYI, the new Smart Lights works great!  I tested it out last night, and it's just what the Gunmod lighting hack needed to be near perfect.

[dizzy]

It doesn't have the infamous pool light bug now, but it still has trouble with tracking activity like my old hack. The key to switching on lights in smart lights was checking whether the interaction was on an object that was in their current room, but of course that assumes that the interacting object is contained within the world. Many interactions (like Macrotastic ones) are off-world, so the sims will end up skillinating etc. in the dark.

This hack needs to check whether the interaction is off-world and handle that situation accordingly (i.e. determine whether the sim is busy or still en route to the interaction).

[jrd]

Ah, that explains why walkthrough rooms are not lit, with the exception of rooms leading to stairwells.

[jsalemi]

It doesn't have the infamous pool light bug now, but it still has trouble with tracking activity like my old hack. The key to switching on lights in smart lights was checking whether the interaction was on an object that was in their current room, but of course that assumes that the interacting object is contained within the world. Many interactions (like Macrotastic ones) are off-world, so the sims will end up skillinating etc. in the dark.

Yea, I've seen that, but it usually seems to only be a problem with skilling stuff that's outside. At some point it seems to realize they're sitting in a chair and turn the lights on.