kind of a random question about hacks

[RainbowTigress]

Well Roxyellen explain in details why Squinge said that.  2 posts below yours.

Yes, I saw RoxEllen's post weeks later, but he never retracted what he said to me or changed the wording of his mod or anything.  He just said, "Thanks for the information."  I still don't understand why the mod is needed if there is not a penalty for missing class.  Thus my confusion.  But I'm not going to argue with him.

[syberspunk]

Squinge is squinge. *shrugs* He seems to be a bit curt or brief in his responses, but he is usually very quick in responding, either personally, or publically.

I agree with Jordi, there are some useful stuff, that doesn't conflict with the more awesome stuff, that I use. The breast feeding hasn't given me trouble... yet. And I tend to trust it a little better because that was borne out of a collaborative effort with jase.

However... you should be careful with hacks that are made as clones of the social plug-in. I think I read somewhere, possibly in Squinge's forums, or maybe here I forget, about someone having certain debug interactions showing up in their sim pie menus, even after deleting a hack. I forget which one it was too. Um, yeah not very useful, but I think the issue was that, if a cloned object is deleted, those objects have default 'fallback' GUIDs, so that if the cloned object is removed, and it still exists on a lot, I think it is supposed to revert back to the object it was cloned on. Hopefully this would prevent crashes and such, since the object couldn't exist properly without the file, and as such it would revert back to a GUID that still exists in the game. I think the particular hack in question was a clone of some social mod that, as a result of being removed, it reverted to the fallback GUID which enabled those debug social interactions making them show up (I think it was the Super Duper Hug or something test social).

So... even if you do delete certain hacks, there may be some unexpected results. I forget what the solution was to clean it up. I think the person had to use the lot debugger to reset all off-world objects in order to delete it. Social plug-ins actually instantiate off-world objects that are sort of place holders for the 'code' of that interaction, the the two sims sort of interact through that object. I think these get created and usually clean themselves up, but when the hack was deleted, it didn't clean itself up properly. I think the hack was later updated so that the main BHAV of it would seek and destroy all of those cloned super hug socials.

Ste

[MissDoh]

Well Roxyellen explain in details why Squinge said that.  2 posts below yours.

Yes, I saw RoxEllen's post weeks later, but he never retracted what he said to me or changed the wording of his mod or anything.  He just said, "Thanks for the information."  I still don't understand why the mod is needed if there is not a penalty for missing class.  Thus my confusion.  But I'm not going to argue with him.

He has been experiencing these problems in his game this is why he released that mod.

[RainbowTigress]

Syberspunk, I remember something like this with the Corey's test chat or something like that, which you could activate by testing cheats and shift-clicking a sim.  I can't find it in the game now, so it may have been removed.  But once I tried it on a lot, and all the sims had an extra "*Talk" menu, but it had the asterisk in front.  I could never get rid of it, so it must have been something like you describe.

[Simlover]

Pescado never has any public opinion on any modder, except if it's like that period-girl or whatever. 

Oh yes but that one was a classic!

[SaraMK]

However... you should be careful with hacks that are made as clones of the social plug-in. I think I read somewhere, possibly in Squinge's forums, or maybe here I forget, about someone having certain debug interactions showing up in their sim pie menus, even after deleting a hack. I forget which one it was too.

You read that right here, after I freaked out and came running for HEeeEELLLLLLLPPppPPP!!!11!!1!!! and J.M. chewed me out for installing something non-awesome. http://www.moreawesomethanyou.com/smf/index.php?topic=3703.0

[J. M. Pescado]

There is DEFINITELY no "missing class" penalty. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Squinge's "fix" for this nonexistent problem is Definitely Not Awesome. I can't tell you what it fixes, since there isn't a problem, but it can't be good.

[momtogirls]

well, I found it, by going through all my sub-folders.  Sorry for asking a totally non-relevent, and definatly non-awesome question.

I really like the idea of breastfeeding babies...I hate all the damn bottles lying around...I mean, if they would clean up after themselves, it would be nice (thankfully, they just delete) but, I don't want to have the annoyances.  (I had my elder mom interact with her adult daughter, and when I clicked, the option to nurse was there...to which, I just said ewwwwwwwwwwwww)

thanks for the help.  I guess it teaches me not to dabble in the "non-awesome"

(MATY got a mention on his forum, too... http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=14157 )

[RainbowTigress]

The Baby Controller gives you the option of either having your sims automatically dispose of the bottles or have them disentigrate as if you went in Buy mode and deleted them yourself.

[Jorenne]

Eh once again I find a thread of utter bullshit slander, do you people have nothing better to do?

Since when did it become the creators job to ensure everything works with everything else.  Take responsibility for what you download yourself and stop giving people a hard time, I bet you all never made an error when learning something new, or made a typo!  Heaven forbid! 

I use a bunch of hacks from various sources, both Awesome (tm) and Non-Awesome (tm) If I notice a problem, I tell the creator, or look for an update or a conflict, or pull it out of my downloads.  Seriously this place has got to be the most pissy, whiney "in club" I have ever had the misfortune to see.

And half of you have hacks in your game that you don't even know what they do, and yet that is somehow OK, when putting in a hack you don't understand the description of is not.

If you don't like the creations someone is making, don't get them, but don't waste time whining about them.

[DrBeast]

If you don't like the creations someone is making, don't get them, but don't waste time whining about them.

Hm...since when is helping someone out with a problem someone's facing "whining about others' hacks"? And if you feel so misfortunate, why don't you follow your own advice?

[Ness]

Jorenne hasn't said a thing with regard to Pescado's hacks, DrBeast.

[DrBeast]

I mean she can follow her own advice and quit whining about the "whiners".

[momtogirls]

well, I know what all my hacks do, and I (with the exception of this one) have them filed in a hack file, by creator.  This one got misfiled, and so when I thought I removed it, I didn't, therefore I thought I would ask a general question. (of course, I'm left wondering what I removed, and when I'm going to miss it)

I wasn't bashing Squinge's mods, I think it's a great idea, but, to ME, there are some annoyances...not bugs, but enough of an annoyance to me, that I wanted to remove the hack.  I actually did post over there to see if the most recent version still has the annoyances.

Actually, my question could have applied to any mod that "fixed" or enabled game code, it just happened that I noticed something when I thought I removed one of squinges mods

[RainbowTigress]

I know what every single one of my hacks does.  I don't even have all of JM's hacks, because some modify the game in ways I don't want.  A couple of JM's and TJ's hacks conflict, so I decide what I want.  Perhaps we have been spoiled by JM and TJ and have come to expect high quality mods that work well together.  I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.  I wasn't trying to bash Squinge either.  I was simply stating my experience and personally I decided to pull the hacks from my game rather than trying to go through the hassle of troubleshooting.

[BlueSoup]

I replied over there, I feel no need to do it here too.

Edit:  But yeah, pretty much everything Rainbow said, goes for me too.

[momtogirls]

I feel bad that I started this controversy.

I guess I shouldn't have specified which hack was in question, and just kept it a general question.

[Twain]

I replied over there, I feel no need to do it here too.

Edit:  But yeah, pretty much everything Rainbow said, goes for me too.

So by telling us you aren't relying here by replying here...are you just trying to get your post count up here then? 

[Jorenne]

But yeah, pretty much everything Rainbow said, goes for me too.

Blue, Honey, I'm not trying to pick on you or make you feel bad, but if you are referring to: 

I know what every single one of my hacks does.  I don't even have all of JM's hacks

You know that's not true, however I will not make conversations held in other places public.

[BlueSoup]

I didn't say that.  Rainbow said that.

I was mostly referring to

Perhaps we have been spoiled by JM and TJ and have come to expect high quality mods that work well together.  I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

[Jorenne]

Which is fair, and I'm not saying it is a bad thing, however it really isn't fair to write off another creator because they don't go to those lengths themselves.

At the end of the day it isn't the creators job to ensure they all work together and if you (the proverbial you here, not Blue you) as a downloader can't be bothered to "troubleshoot" or report bugs and conflicts then how can you blame the creators.

No one can conceivably test every mod with every other, some try their best to inform of conflicts they know about, some don't even bother with that stating only that this mod or that mod will work with other mods of their own creation, neither approach is wrong, or even more right than the other.

I just feel that slating creators out of an apathy in yourself to check, detect, and report is wrong.  Everyone can make mistakes.

[MissDoh]

Jorenne I am applauding and give you a standing ovation for your reply and I feel the exact same way you do.

Unless we report annoyance about a mod to the creator how would the creator knows there is one in the 1st place?  Same with bugs.  Criticize all you want but at least report to the creator what you don't like about his/her mods so they have a chance to improve it and fix the bugs.  What is annoying for you might not annoy the creator.

[syberspunk]

Which is fair, and I'm not saying it is a bad thing, however it really isn't fair to write off another creator because they don't go to those lengths themselves.

Hrm. That's somewhat fair as I have been known to be lazy myself. Surprise surprise I think the problem some people may have is perhaps how they perceive to be treated. If you bother to report something, and the creator isn't exactly courteous or in the very least responsive, it kind of turns you off. Pescado might be an exception because we've all come to expect he will just point and laugh at us.

At the end of the day it isn't the creators job to ensure they all work together and if you (the proverbial you here, not Blue you) as a downloader can't be bothered to "troubleshoot" or report bugs and conflicts then how can you blame the creators.

I sort of beg to differ slightly on this. I'm not saying it's an absolute responsibility of the creator... but they should in the very least know which hacks of their own conflict with each other. You probably mean that it isn't up to the creator to ensure their hacks are compatible with the hacks of other creators... and while this is true, from the very beginning, at least to me, there seemed to be an implied (hereto referred loosely as) 'rule' that it is polite not to 'tread' on other people's work or in an area that has sort of already been covered. I say loosely since it isn't a hard and fast rule and it's certailny great to have options and variety, for sure, especially if different mods approach things in significantly different ways.

However, things are a bit different now, as modding seems to have taken off, what with all the great tutorials that are available out there, and the further development of SimPE which is a great tool and definitely has made modding much easier. Personally, when I started modding, I sort of made it a point to search the 'main' sites (at least the ones that I knew of) to see if something I wanted to make (either for myself or was requested by someone else but an idea that I liked) wasn't already made. If it already existed, then why bother reinventing the wheel? By putting out so many different hacks that do similar things, I think people in general are more prone to ending up with things that conflict. And while it isn't exactly a creator's responsibility to ensure that their own creations don't conflict with others, it would be nice to consider the possibility that their creations might and to inform/warn the user beforehand. That's not to say that you should scour the internet to look for anything that might conflict with something you create, but a general warning might be nice. Additionally, I personally think it would be nice to not create so many things that could potentially conflict with other mods. Why add to the confusion and chaos? But I do agree, on the other hand, it is really the responsibility of the user to read the rtfms and figure out whether they have anything that conflicts. I won't know of every mod out there, and it would be foolish and quite pompous of me to assume that you use the same exact hacks that I do, so of course I can't account for every possible configuration or scenario.

No one can conceivably test every mod with every other, some try their best to inform of conflicts they know about, some don't even bother with that stating only that this mod or that mod will work with other mods of their own creation, neither approach is wrong, or even more right than the other.

I just feel that slating creators out of an apathy in yourself to check, detect, and report is wrong.  Everyone can make mistakes.

I agree that neither approach is more correct than the other, but it'd be nice that, if conflicts were reported, maybe the creator includes that as a warning or something, but that's probably just my personal take on it. As for the latter, I don't think that some people here are complaining 'out of an apathy' in checking, detecting and reporting. I think some people had their qualms after doing those things and the response they received (or didn't as the case may be). I think many people, here especially, are pretty ocd when it comes to managing their hacks. And as such, they are fairly responsible when it comes to checking, detecting, and reporting. I don't think that was the problem. But what do I know. I kinda just like playing the diplomat. Can't we all just get along?

Ste

PS. Thanks SaraMK for pointing that out. It was actually Dolphin's mod and Not Squinges. I knew I read that somewhere, and I get easily befuddled between the few sites that I frequent. It quickly all becomes a blur to me.

PPS. This goes without saying... but we should all be able to equally express our opinion, whether it's criticism or praise, or criticism of criticism, no? Hopefully, we realize that their will be a difference in opinion and can respect those differences. I'm the last person to point out the kettle calling the pot black, because hypocrite see, hypocrite do.

[RainbowTigress]

Thank you for that, Syberspunk. 

[Lyall]

(MATY got a mention on his forum, too... http://www.insimenator.net/showthread.php?t=14157 )

Oh for goodness' sake... I realize I'm straying a bit off topic here but I just had to say this. Is it just me or is anyone else just disgusted by some (keyword: some) of the posts in that thread?

And yeah, if anyone's wondering about my opinion (Though I have no idea why anyone would. Yet I post anyway. Weird, huh? ), I mostly agree with what rainbow said.

*temporarily relocates to the underside of a rock*