Building/Upgrading a PC for TS2

[bowrain]

Why don't you just buy a custom built pc? You can choose the component and/or OS you want, cost less, and generally way more flexible. I hate branded pc

[Aggie]

Why don't you just buy a custom built pc? You can choose the component and/or OS you want, cost less, and generally way more flexible. I hate branded pc

Because a). I have no idea what I could afford to skimp on and what I couldn't (WTF? How the hell should I know what kind of 'power source' I need?), and  b). it looks to STILL be too expensive as it seems it won't even come with an OS, and c). I'm also looking to buy from a place that can offer me full customer support if I need it.

[KatEnigma]

The main problem will be with using a Dell disk. It will be customized so that it can only be installed on Dells. So either Arr a full version or buy one. There's nothing on that computer that shouldn't have XP drivers.

[bowrain]

Why don't you just buy a custom built pc? You can choose the component and/or OS you want, cost less, and generally way more flexible. I hate branded pc

Because a). I have no idea what I could afford to skimp on and what I couldn't (WTF? How the hell should I know what kind of 'power source' I need?), and  b). it looks to STILL be too expensive as it seems it won't even come with an OS, and c). I'm also looking to buy from a place that can offer me full customer support if I need it.

Oh ok, but actually if you got it all figured out it's way easier and cheaper. Especially if you got some OS installation CDs, they're definitely come in handy

Regarding the drivers, I think you can obtain various drivers for XP from the net. I'm wondering though, any reason not to use Vista? I heard a lot of bad things about it, and some good things, and I actually have it installed on one of my PCs and it works just fine actually. I don't notice any slow down whatsoever.

[dizzy]

I'm wondering though, any reason not to use Vista?

http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista

[Invisigoth]

Aggie, I was poking around the other day on the Dell website and it seems that they still offer computers with XP. I just ran a search for xp and I found this. It seems that you also get some cusomization options, which could be a really good thing. For example, you'd definitely want to choose a better graphics card than the intel that comes standard with most Dells, IMO.

[Hegelian]

Would anyone be able to tell me if this computer would be able to take a System Restore XP installation on it with no trouble?

I don't think you would have any problems finding the necessary XP drivers from the various manufacturer's Web sites. You won't be able to use the recovery disc from another PC since it will have drivers for different hardware. Both XP and Vista ship with drivers that should run all the components in a new PC, although some will be generic drivers that won't tap all the capabilities of the hardware.

To be honest, I think the machine you linked to is overpriced by a fair amount for what you get. If you want control over your purchase, buy your machine from a local independent builder. Everyone works from the same stock of components anyway, except for some of the big vendors that use proprietary parts for some things (motherboards and power supplies most often). It may not be cheapest option, but if you get a good builder, you should be able to get the parts you want.

Not long ago I but together a shopping list for a new machine for a friend of mine. What you would pay for something like this from a local builder is hard to say—on the one hand, these are retail prices (although discounted) while your builder should be getting wholesale prices; on the other hand, the builder is going to include a markup on the parts plus the cost of labor and configuration (in other words, it is probably cheaper to buy the parts and assemble them yourself. but the builder will have installation disks for XP).

All prices in US dollars. Prices from Newegg on 03 January.

COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: CAC-T05-WW
Item #: N82E16811119077
Mail-in Rebate
$54.99    -$10.00 Instant      $44.99
Comment:  Bought one for Reggikko's PC; very nice for the money.

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: GA-P35-DS3L
Item #: N82E16813128059
$99.99
Comment:  All Motherboard models seem to have their share of  bad units. This one seems to have fewer, and has connectors for legacy devices like parallel printers. Uses Intel's new P35 chipset.

Intel Core 2 Duo E6750 Conroe 2.66GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80557E6750 - Retail
Model #: BX80557E6750
Item #: N82E16819115029
$189.99
Comment:  Currently the best bang for the buck in a Core2 Duo (Quad core is unnecessary for your purposes).

MSI NX8600GT-T2D256E OC GeForce 8600GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 SLI Supported Video Card - Retail
Model #: NX8600GT-T2D256E OC
Item #: N82E16814127286
Mail-in Rebate
$99.99
Comment:  AMD seems to have killed ATi as a quality brand. The new DX10 HD2xxx boards appear to have lousy drivers (at least for AGP)—welcome to the old ATi. As much as it pains me, I have to recommend nVidia for a current, DX10-capable video board. If you make the move to PCI-E, be sure your board has DDR3 and not DDR2 memory.

SeaSonic SS-500ES ATX12V 2.2 /EPS12V 2.91 500W Power Supply - OEM
Model #: SS-500ES
Item #: N82E16817151040
$99.99    -$30.00 Instant      $69.99
Comment:  Not much name recognition in the US, but popular in Europe. Manufactures for proment brands--Corsair, Antec, Silverstone. This is an 80%+ efficiency model, the new trend in PSUs. Similar to Antec's Earthwatts series (made by SeaSonic).

CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X2048-6400C4 - Retail
Model #: TWIN2X2048-6400C4
Item #: N82E16820145034
$87.00    -$10.00 Instant      $77.00
Mail-in Rebate
Comment: Good price for quality PC2 6400 RAM. Check motherboard manufacturer's Web site for compatibility
   
Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD740ADFD
Item #: N82E16822136033
$149.99
Comment:  Not enormous, but the fastest SATA drive you can buy. Use it for the OS and apps (I doubt you have 60 Gigs of application files). Don't worry about your SATA drives not having NCQ (native command queuing); it actually slows down data transfer on a single-user desktop system.

Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: WD5000AAKS
Item #: N82E16822136073
$104.99    -$5.00 Instant      $99.99
Comment:  A good blend of capacity, performance, and low power consumption, with a better warranty than the Samsung SpinPoint T series.
   
Subtotal:    $831.93

Drop the Raptor and go with a single drive to knock $150 off the price. I did not include a DVD writer, which is about $30.

[Aggie]

Unfortunately, Hegelian, cheap is the main consideration here. The only local independent builder here I've found hasn't even bothered to return my inquiring email, so it doesn't look like they're too damn eager for my business. I also cannot use newegg since they don't ship to Canada. Jolrei was nice enough to provide me with a few computer-building sites for Canadians, but (like I said earlier) I know absolutely nothing about shit like power sources and whatnot, and what I can afford to skrimp on and what I can't. Since a custom-built PC would not include an OS, the price I could afford to spend on it would go down dramatically (by the price of a WinXP OS disk). I don't really think I'll be able to get what I want in a computer for a mere $550 here (since I'd still have to spend $250+ on XP). 

Overpriced or not, that computer I linked to seems to be the cheapest PC that I can find that still has most of them items I want in it (I'd still be upgrading the video card), but now that I know I can't use a System Restore Disk on any pre-purchased computer, my price range has now dropped from $800 to $550.

ETA: On the other hand, if I can get this Win XP OS disk on its own (and it's not just an "EP"), I might have a better chance.

[Hegelian]

The thing about getting XP on your computer is that the product key needs to match the version on the disk. For example, a product key for an XP Pro disk will not work with an installation from an XP Home disk.

Now, if you already have a legitimate XP disk that is the OS installation disk and not a "Recovery CD", you may be able to install WinXP on a new computer. Some OEM XP disks look for manufacturer-specific hardware (the motherboard BIOS) and some do not. For example, we have the XP disk that came with an HP desktop PC, and could not use it for a machine with a non-HP motherboard. However, I was able to get a functioning XP Home disk image via bit torrent and used that with the legitimate registration key we already had. The physical disk is just the delivery medium—what you buy from Microsoft is the user license, which we had. We just needed a disk that provided an installation that would accept our product key.

One of the reasons (but not the only reason) we can't use just any OEM XP disk for any PC is that some of these OEM versions of Windows do not require input of of the product key (this is the case for my HP laptop) or even activation iirc (again, I don't think the HP laptop required activation). But if you have a legitimate product key, all you need to do is find an installation disk that will work with your key.   

[Hegelian]

Heh—that's the same motherboard I have.

You need an AGP card. I'm using a Radeon X800GTO (made by Sapphire). You probably can't find these anymore, though, except perhaps on eBay. AGP cards are disappearing, but even so getting one that will play TS2 well is going to be difficult for US$50. Your best bet is probably a Radeon X1650. The nVidia AGP models in that price range seem to have had some driver problems when running TS2.

[J. M. Pescado]

The thing about getting XP on your computer is that the product key needs to match the version on the disk. For example, a product key for an XP Pro disk will not work with an installation from an XP Home disk.

ARRRRRRRR! You should never use a "legitimate" key. Microsoft knows where each and every last key is and if you ever leak that onto the Internet, THEY KNOW WHERE YOU ARE.

[Aggie]

Aggie, I was poking around the other day on the Dell website and it seems that they still offer computers with XP. I just ran a search for xp and I found this. It seems that you also get some cusomization options, which could be a really good thing. For example, you'd definitely want to choose a better graphics card than the intel that comes standard with most Dells, IMO.

Ahh, Invisigoth, you know I love you. That site would be perfect, save for one little snafu...I don't see an option to ship to Canada.    Other than that, it would be groin-grabbingly perfect.

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm surprised no one has capitalized on a shipping service where packages are received at a US address and then reshipped to the Empire. Seems like there's way too many Imperials who want to buy something, but can't.

[ZiggyDoodle]

Aggie, just go to the Dell Canadian site and check it out.  They do ship to Canada.

[witch]

I'm surprised no one has capitalized on a shipping service where packages are received at a US address and then reshipped to the Empire. Seems like there's way too many Imperials who want to buy something, but can't.

Just came across one the other night that performs this service for Oceania. There might be something similar for Canada.

[Aggie]

Aggie, just go to the Dell Canadian site and check it out.  They do ship to Canada.

Yes, but I've yet to stumble upon any computer that offers XP instead of Vista.

I'm surprised no one has capitalized on a shipping service where packages are received at a US address and then reshipped to the Empire. Seems like there's way too many Imperials who want to buy something, but can't.

Just came across one the other night that performs this service for Oceania. There might be something similar for Canada.

Did not know of this. I am intrigued and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[witch]

Did not know of this. I am intrigued and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Just another page I stumbled upon: http://www.buyusa.co.nz/about/

PS Wrong about Oceania, it's just for New Zealand. I thought someone may have done one for Canada or Europe.

[Sleepycat]

I just ordered a new Alienware computer with XP Pro    and from the looks of it they'll ship to Canada  http://www.alienware.com/main.aspx   (you can Select a Country: for the site)

[Aggie]

Those computers look so nice, Sleepycat.    Sadly, they seem to be all out of my price range, as none of them can be downgraded and the cheapest one I see is $1,200.

[J. M. Pescado]

Alienware = RIPOFF

[Jess Maree]

Aggie, what is your current price range for a new computer? I have alot of time on my hands and will go searching if you need help.

[Aggie]

$800 including shipping. I may be able to go as high as $850, but that must include everything. Thanks, Jess Maree.

[J. M. Pescado]

What do you have right NOW? $800 is well within the range to upgrade to a high-end motherboard/CPU and graphics combo. Combined with part-salvage from your existing computer and you should be good to go.

[Aggie]

What do you have right NOW? $800 is well within the range to upgrade to a high-end motherboard/CPU and graphics combo. Combined with part-salvage from your existing computer and you should be good to go.

[Jess Maree]

Aggie, I built a custom Dell desktop with price in mind. It does not include programs such as MS Word or security programs, I assumed you will be able to use the programs you have now. Unfortunatly, it comes with Vista. It didnt give me the option to change it to XP.

I gave you the best graphics card option they had, which is a 256MB ATI RADEON HD 2400 XT and 3gig of RAM. It comes with a 19 inch monitor (to upgrade the graphics card and RAM I couldn't use the 20 inch, it pushed the price over $900)

All up it comes to $879. I'm not sure if this includes delivery or not, I'm still searching.

Here is the desktop summary. Click on "adjust system" to see everything and edit if need be.

Since it is Dell, I got savings from ordering online so you have to order it by Feb 15 to get everything at that price. It sucks, but it saves money.

If, buy some chance, that link wont show up, I can e-mail it to you. To save it I had to save it to "my cart".

Hope this is along the lines of what you are looking for. If not, I'm more than happy to go searching again

ETA: If programs such as MS Office and security are needed, I can downgrade the RAM and graphics card to fit them in.