Building/Upgrading a PC for TS2

[ZiggyDoodle]

Very, very cool machine, Brat.

I personally would switch an equivalent (or better) ATI card for the nVidia.  Hegelian has made some valid comments about the difference above.

Finally, might be a good idea to ask the seller/mfg. if they will give you a Vista premier coupon so you wont' have to fork out any $$$$ should you decide to switch the OS in a few months.  That is being done by several computer manufacturers.

[Edited to include Vista Ultimate coupon, as the premier and ultimate versions support the Aero graphics; the home basic version does not]

[KatEnigma]

I just thought of something else- does the motherboard support 2 video cards? If you're looking to build a machine that you won't have to replace anytime soon, it's something to consider. I wish I'd made that decision a year ago, honestly (that and I wished I'd known AMD was going to change the darn socket so fast. LOL). Just because the performance difference isn't large enough to justify the price difference NOW IMNSHO, doesn't mean that 1-2 years down the road, games won't rely on it more, and you'll wish you'd thought ahead. Building something you can upgrade to meet future needs whenever possible, rather than needing to replace the entire thing, is always a good idea.

Otherwise, like I hinted at before and Ziggy said, go with an ATI card. It will prevent headaches later on. 

[brat]

Okay. This is what I have listed so far-

XPS 700 Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition with re-installation CD
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Keyboard Saitek 104-Key Eclipse Backlit Gaming Keyboard (Ships Separately)
Monitor No Monitor
Video Card Dual 512MB ATI Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
Hard Drive 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
Mouse LOGITECH G5 Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Modem No Modem Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No Pre-installed software
Additional Hard Drive 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™


Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard
SYSTEM DETAILS 1 kilowatt Power Supply
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans
Photos, music & more! No preinstalled software

As I said before, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to computers. How can I tell if it will support a second card? Thanks, guys, for all your help. I really do appreciate it.
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Cons]

Just a few thoughts. I've been on tech boards for years and for reviews of mainboards and video cards and memory there is no one better than MS at www.lostcircuits.com. There is a forum and he can and will answer all questions. Much better than Tom's Hardware is.

I'm running a Nvidia GF6600 AGP 256 meg on this machine. I've found the drivers for the Nvidia cards with Sims 2  can make or break how it plays. When I upgraded to this Athlon 64 I did a clean install because I put in a 160 GIG HDD with an 8 meg cache on it and had changed the mainboard from an NForce chipset board to a SIS chipset board. XP doesn't like that too well. LOL I have too many Grandkids and the one in college needed two computers (One for at school and one at home) Thus I grabbed this socket 754 board for me and moved my old set up to them (XP2200+). Anyway I had put in the latest Nvidia drivers when I upgraded 8. something(March 2006 issue date) and the game was choppy, video card was running hotter than H , blue screen with the cute little hour glass, blotchy video at times. So I went back to the 7.1.8.9 drivers issued 4/1/2005 (Still on Nvidia's site) and those work like a dream. Game has no video type glitches anymore.

Then after running this game vanilla with nothing in it except Maxis stuff I was going nuts with some of the game annoyances. So I downloaded several hacks to fix those from this site this week and low and behold, this game is running the best I've seen it run since the day it came out. Loads fast, no lags, rotation is fast, moving up and down levels is fast, no application crashes.....so I would assume from this that it's a combo thing to get this game to run right. Plenty of ram,at least a gig, a good video card (ATI or Nvidia) drivers are critical, and perhaps several of these hacks that fix some of Maxis code that just isn't up to par?? I have all expansions in here and the latest OFB patch. I don't have the two little packs though GL and FF.

My son is a WOW player and he runs the X800 ATI card. No problems there. He did have a problem with an ATI 9600 Pro card. It would give errors when playing WOW. We knew they had some cards with bad chipsets so after trying every driver ATI had, we shipped it back, got the replacement and same thing. The old ATI 8500 would play WOW but couldn't display the underwater scenes, my FX5700 would play it without errors so we knew it was something with that 9600 PRO. That's when he bought the X800 and that ended all his problems. He'll keep it until he upgrades his computer again. Which he does about every two years. Odd thing is my oldest grandson has the 9600 PRO, plays WOW and has no problems whatever with it. Kind of tells you all video cards aren't created equal.They were both Saphire cards.

So while your upgrading, if your going to keep these machines for any length of time. Go with the best out there at the time that you can afford and if your a big gamer, don't cut corners on ram and video. Intel has only one core that's worth having and that's the Conroe based processors. I however only run AMD and have only ran AMD for years. When I upgrade again I will probably go with all the bells and whistles, provided I don't have to build  4 of these at once. (Grandkids saying "Mamo I need you to build me a computer".

[KatEnigma]

Okay. This is what I have listed so far-

XPS 700 Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition with re-installation CD
Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs
Keyboard Saitek 104-Key Eclipse Backlit Gaming Keyboard (Ships Separately)
Monitor No Monitor
Video Card Dual 512MB ATI Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
Hard Drive 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
Mouse LOGITECH G5 Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Modem No Modem Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No Pre-installed software
Additional Hard Drive 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™


Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard
SYSTEM DETAILS 1 kilowatt Power Supply
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans
Photos, music & more! No preinstalled software

As I said before, I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to computers. How can I tell if it will support a second card? Thanks, guys, for all your help. I really do appreciate it.
 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It looks like that one has 2 video cards already.  Two mighty fine ones at that- I'd be estatic with just one x1950. Goodness, that thing must be costing you an arm and a leg. 

[DrBeast]

*DrBeast dies of heart failure just by guessing the price...and by brat's comment on getting a new rig every year!

[ZiggyDoodle]

If money is no object, Brat, which it doesn't seem to be, then I'd up the RAM to four gigabytes, switch the OS to XP professional, and request the manufacturer include a Vista Ultimate upgrade coupon.

On the other hand, am sure your current specs will keep you happy for a couple of years.

Just wear a seat belt when you're at the keyboard and make certain you have a top of the line surge protector.

[brat]

Okay, guys, this is it-

XPS 700 Intel® Core™2 Extreme processor x6800 (2.93GHz)
Operating System Genuine Windows® XP Professional with re-installation CD
Memory 4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 4 DIMMs
Keyboard Saitek 104-Key Eclipse Backlit Gaming Keyboard (Ships Separately)
Monitor No Monitor
Video Card Dual 512MB ATI Radeon X1950 XTX CrossFire
Hard Drive 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Floppy Drive and Media Reader 13 in 1 Media Card Reader
Mouse LOGITECH G5 Laser Gaming Mouse (ships separately)
Modem No Modem Requested
Adobe Software Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 7.0
Optical Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Sound Blaster® X-Fi™ XtremeMusic (D) Sound Card
Speakers No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
Office Software (not included in Windows XP) No Pre-installed software
Additional Hard Drive 320GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
Security Software PC-cillin Internet Security with AntiVirus and Spyware removal 36-months
Warranty and Service 2Yr Ltd Warranty and At-Home Service
XPS Specialized Support XPS, Specialized Support
Protection Against Accidents Add CompleteCare Accidental Damage Service to 2Yr Lim Warranty
Internet Access Service No ISP requested
Future Operating Systems Windows Vista™ Capable
SYSTEM DETAILS 2.5MM aluminum thickness Chassis with front & back customizable LEDs
SYSTEM DETAILS 7-slot, BTX design motherboard
SYSTEM DETAILS 1 kilowatt Power Supply
SYSTEM DETAILS Tower Six-heat pipe, Copper base Heat Sink with aluminum fans
SYSTEM DETAILS Two 120mm x 38mm front fans
Photos, music & more! No preinstalled software
 
I thought I had the XP Pro. Thanks for pointing that out. Any last words of advice before I push the buy button? Thanks so much for all your input.

[KatEnigma]

Looks perfect to me. I'm very jealous! 

[DrBeast]

Not perfect...should switch to 800MHz DDR2 RAMs to achieve perfection...

*DrBeast can't believe he just said that!

Just wear a seat belt when you're at the keyboard and make certain you have a top of the line surge protector.

A seat belt? Heh, with a rig like that he needs a G-suit and an ejection seat!

ETA: am I blind or can't I see the motherboard in the specs?

[MxxPwr]

Not perfect...should switch to 800MHz DDR2 RAMs to achieve perfection...

*DrBeast can't believe he just said that!

If it's using the board I'm thinking it's using (some form of the Intel P865), then you can't have the 800MHz DDR2 with 4gigs. It slows down to 667MHz.

[vilia]

I'm looking at getting a new computer which will be built by one of my techie mates.  I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my thoughts on components and give me some advice. I want a pc that I don't have to upgrade (too much) for a while and will happily play my games.

I am on a budget so could not really afford to go much above these requirements unless I sacrificed something else. If I can save equivalent of US$50 then I can afford to get a sound card.

CPU - Intel Core Duo E6300
Motherboard - ASUS P5NSLI
Memory - 1GB generic
Graphics - 1x nVidia GeForce 7600 GT (working on the assumption that when I have more money I can purchase another one)
Hard drive - Seagate 7200.9 160 GB
CD/DVD-Rom - Pioneer DVD-111DBK
Case - Antec Sonata II
OS - Windows XP Home
Monitor - 17" LCD
Basic Mouse & Keyboard
(already have speakers)

[KatEnigma]

You might want to reconsider that Nvidia card. There have been lots of problems with Nvidia's drivers and TS2 over the past year+  Now, that may be Maxis' fault rather than Nvidia's, but it doesn't really matter if you want to play TS2. ATI cards haven't had those kind of issues.

I'd also go with 2 GB of RAM. 

[vilia]

Ok, thanks, I'll take that on board. 

[Karen]

  XPS 410 
  Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6300 (2MB L2 Cache, 1.86 GHZ, 1066 FSB),
Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD Unit Price     

Memory 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs

Monitor 19 inch E196FP Analog Flat Panel
Video Card 256MB nVidia GeForce 7300 LE
Hard Drive 250GB

CD or DVD Drive Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable
Sound Cards Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition

I am considering a Dell XPS 410 with the above configuration but I'm wondering about the graphics card.  I know the Nvidia cards have had problems with TS2 lately.  I've always used ATI cards (my current one is a Radeon 9600 XT which I've been very happy with).  Dell's other graphics card option on this model is an ATI X1300 Pro (256 MB).  I looked at the charts on Tom's Hardware and it seems to suggest the X1300 Pro is at the bottom end of the spectrum, quality-wise.  But would it be enough to run TS2 + all EPs?  I can always upgrade later if necessary.

One of my main motivations in upgrading to a new system is to speed up the load time of the game.  Currently (with a Pentium IV 2.4 GHZ with 1 GB RAM) it takes 15 minutes to load the game, plus about 5 minutes to load the neighborhood.  I certainly hope this system would run a lot faster than that.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[jsalemi]

Why not just save money, get the nVidea with the new system, and then just pull your 1600 XT from your current system and use it in the new one?  If you're keeping the current system for other use, just put the nVidea in it.

[Karen]

My current card (the 9600XT) is more than 2 years old and only has 128 MB of RAM.  I don't want to put a card like that in a brand new system.  What I'm really trying to figure out is whether the ATI X1300 Pro will be sufficient to run the game.

[KatEnigma]

The 9600XT won't work anyway, it's an AGP card, and the new XPS will take a PCI-Express card.

If you can run the Sims and expansions on the 9600XT, you can run it on the X1300 Pro. "and expansions" doesn't make any difference anyway. OFB actually makes the game run better than running TS2 by itself runs. Plus, TS2 is now 2 years old- it doesn't need a bleeding edge card.  Thirdly, TS2 relies more on the processor and RAM than the video card. A newer card would make it look prettier, but it's not going to actually run any better.
So yes, the x1300 will be sufficient.

[jsalemi]

My current card (the 9600XT) is more than 2 years old and only has 128 MB of RAM.  I don't want to put a card like that in a brand new system.  What I'm really trying to figure out is whether the ATI X1300 Pro will be sufficient to run the game.

Ah, ok -- you edited the card model.   Yea, as katenigma says, the 1300 would be fine. Any ATI card from an 850 up would be fine.

[syberspunk]

Hi guys, Best Buy and Circuit City look like they have insane deals on PCI Express Graphics Cards... I eventually plan to get a new computer... probably by the end of this month, or sometime next month, depending on how things work out. I am wondering what the experts (you guys ) think about the following i.e. the specs, the cost (is the deal too good to pass up? or are these typical prices), etc.

BFG 3DFuzion GeForce 7300 GS 256MB DDR2 PCI Express Graphics Card Reg. Price: $104.99 Sale: $79.99

Product Features

      550MHz core clock speed; dual 400MHz RAMDACs    
      NVIDIA CineFX 4.0 engine delivers advanced visual effects at super-high speeds    
      2048 x 1536 maximum resolution for impressive-looking images    
      Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 support ensures compatibility and performance for all Microsoft DirectX 9.0 applications, including gaming titles using Shader Model 3.0; also supports and optimizes Microsoft OpenGL 2.0 applications    
      VGA, DVI-I and S-video outputs to connect to your compatible television or monitor; built-in HDTV output    
      Includes NVIDIA ForceWare Drivers and nvDVD 2.0 Multimedia software    

Product Details

Type of Video Card    Graphics
Video Memory    256MB
Interface Slot Type    PCI Express
Type of Processor    GeForce 7300 GS
Number of Processors    1
Clock Speed of Video Memory (RAMDAC)    Dual RAMDACs (2 at 400MHz each)
Maximum 2D Resolution (at 32-bit color)    2048 x 1536
Maximum 3D Resolution (at 32-bit color)    2048 x 1536
Number of Polygons per Second    413 million
Supports MPEG-1, 2    Yes
TV-Out    Yes
S-Video Output    Yes
Software Included    NVIDIA ForceWare Drivers, nvDVD 2.0 Multimedia
System Requirements    800MHz processor or higher; Windows XP; 128MB RAM; 35MB hard drive space; CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive; PCI 2.0 slot; 350W power supply

   
PNY Verto GeForce 7900 GS 256MB PCI Express Graphics Card Reg. Price: $199.99 Sale: $149.99

Product Features    

      NVIDIA SLI multi-GPU support allows you to combine 2 graphics cards in a single system to scale performance (each card must be purchased separately)    
      Dual 400MHz RAMDACs; 450MHz core clock    
      NVIDIA CineFX 4.0 engine delivers advanced visual effects at super-high speeds; 64-bit floating point texture filtering and blending improve image clarity and quality and provide high dynamic range (HDR) support    
      NVIDIA Digital Vibrance Control 3.0 technology allows users to adjust color controls digitally to compensate for the lighting conditions of their workspace in order to achieve accurate, bright colors in all conditions    
      NVIDIA PureVideo Technology2 high-definition video processing delivers unprecedented picture clarity, smooth video, accurate color and precise image scaling for all video content    
      Microsoft DirectX 9.0 Shader Model 3.0 support ensures compatibility and performance for all Microsoft DirectX 9.0 applications, including gaming titles using Shader Model 3.0; also supports and optimizes Microsoft OpenGL 2.0 applications    
      Dual dual-link DVI support    
      Microsoft Windows Vista compatibility    
   

Product Details    
   
Warranty Terms - Parts    3 years (1 year standard warranty, plus additional 2 years after completion of registration form)
Warranty Terms - Labor    3 years (1 year standard warranty, plus additional 2 years after completion of registration form)
Type of Video Card    Graphics
Video Memory    256MB GDDR3
Interface Slot Type    PCI Express
Number of Processors    1
Clock Speed of Video Memory (RAMDAC)    Dual RAMDACs at 400MHz
Maximum 2D Resolution (at 32-bit color)    2560 x 1600
Maximum 3D Resolution (at 32-bit color)    2560 x 1600
System Requirements    Intel® Pentium® III, AMD Duron™ or Athlon™ processor or higher; Windows 2000 or XP; 256MB RAM; 50MB hard drive space; CD or DVD-ROM drive
Additional System Requirements    350W power supply with 12V rating of 20A or more; PCI Express-compliant motherboard; VGA or DVI-I compatible monitor

EVGA e-GeForce 7300GT 512MB PCI Video Card Price was: $179.99 Price after rebate: $119.99

• 350MHz GPU
• Integrated TV-encoder
• 512MB of DDR2 memory
   
• Dual DVI-I connectors
• 8.51GB/second bandwidth
• PCI-Express interface

EVGA e-GeForce™ 7600 GS Video Card with Passive Heatsink Price was: $149.99 Price after rebate: $99.99

• 400MHz GPU
• Integrated TV-encoder
• 256MB of DDR2 memory
   
• HDTV support
• 12.8 GB/second bandwidth
• PCI-E interface

PNY GeForce 7300 GT PCIe Graphics Card Price was: $229.99 Price after rebate: $129.99

• 256MB GDDR2 PCIe
• 350MHz GPU
• Integrated TV-encoder
   
• Shader Model 3.0 support
• HDR rendering support
• 10.66GB/sec. bandwidth

Also... which one would be the "best" card performance wise, and the "best" deal price wise? I'm quite partial to the EVGA e-GeForce 7300GT, since it has 512MB of memory, but... it clocks in only at 350Mhz, as opposed to the 400Mhz for the others, and I think the BFG one is OC at 550Mhz. Does that make a significant difference, performance wise? It seems the "higher" end GT models have lower GPU processor clock speeds.

[SpaceDoll]

You can get the 7300 series for around $50 at NewEgg (although not with 512 memory), and the 7600 for about $90-100.  As for the 7900 GS, you can get it for $139 after mail-in rebate, which would be worth the extra 10 bucks to avoid.  I always say, get the best you can afford, which would be the 7900, I guess.   

[MxxPwr]

Some notes:
With Nvidia 'GS' always means less pipelines (in this case 4; more is better), and in some cases, a smaller memory interface (larger is better); for instance, all of the 7300GS's have a 64bit memory interface (there's a lot of AGP cards with better memory interfaces than that), while the 7300GT's have 128bit memory interfaces.

Be careful of that 512MB memory on that 7300GT. The lower level 7xxx Series Nvidia cards now have something called 'with Turbo Cache'. This means it has lower onboard memory (in this case probably 256MB) and takes system memory to make the card 'look' like it has 512MB. If that's the case, don't bother, because any spill over in the graphics workload will be taken up by system memory anyway.

Anyway, enough notes. IMHO, the best performance card you have up there is the 7900GS. It has 20 pipelines; a 7900GT would have 24; but that's not that bad. If you could, try to find a 7900GS made by EVGA or BFG; PNY cards are overpriced for no good reason.

A long time ago, heh heh like 6 months ago   I'd say your value card was the 7600GS. A lot of people I know liked it. Unfortunatly, Nvidia is really pushing that blasted 7300 series. But, who knows, by the time you buy/build, the 7600GS would be even cheaper because it's being replaced. If so, the 7600GS would be your best value.

[twistingsims]

Hi, my telephone company is offering this Dell desktop computer for 36  monthly payments.  I would so value your opinions on the specs for this machine! 

DELLTM DIMENSIONTM C521 desktop computer

-Processor:AMD Sempron¿ 3400+
-Memory:512MB, DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
-Hard Drive:80GB Serial ATA
-Monitor:17 inch E773
-16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW)
-Video Card: NVIDIA GeForce 6150 LE Integrated Graphics GPU
-Dell A225 Speakers
-56K PCI Data Fax Modem
-Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
-Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
-Dell USB Keyboard & Optical Mouse
-Genuine Windows¿ XP Home Edition
-Microsoft¿ Works 8 (does NOT include MS Word)

I do realize the Nvidia cards are not recommended for good Sims2 play, but I would replace that with an ATI Radeon Card 850PRO or 1600PRO I believe it is.

Thank you.

[SpaceDoll]

36 monthly payments of what, is the question.  It doesn't seem to be a remarkable machine, but it is certainly better than my old desktop (which is atleast five years old). 

[J. M. Pescado]

WTF is this "monthly payments" bullshit? Is this some kind of rent-a-computer thing? Sounds idiotic to me. Plus that computer is shit. I wouldn't pay more than $250 for that, tops.