Buying a laptop, advice needed

[Braveheart]

I am in the process of looking at a laptop for purchase in the next month or so. I, of course, plan to run Sims2 and all EPs on it. I notice that most laptops have some form of integrated graphics, often a 128mb ATI radeon Express or Intel GMA 950. What kind of performance can I expect with these types of graphics cards?  If any of you was going to purchase a laptop with the intention of running Sims2 on it, what would you look for in the way of specs? Thanks for the help.

[jsalemi]

The only card of those two supported is the ATI; Sims 2 and many other games don't support Intel integrated graphics.  Some laptops have mobile nvidia cards, which are also a good choice. Get at least 128Mb video RAM.

 I have the Mobile Radeon X300 in my Dell laptop (128Mb), and it plays TS2 and all expansion packs just fine. 

[Morrigan]

I've got a 2yr old laptop, in need of upgrading soon.  It has a Radeon/Mobility 9200 card (64mb  ) I only have Uni & NL but it runs the game just fine.  Shows bump maps & everything, though when I upgrade, I'll go for something with a better card.

[Bruce Banner]

  If you're going to get a laptop with a view to playing Sims 2 then you're best getting one with a Mobility/Go laptop version of a proper ATI or Nvidia card like the previous 2 posters have rather than one with a standard integrated graphics chip . Also make sure you get one of those coolermaster base stand thingies that contain extra fans to put your laptop on especially when you're playing games because laptop fans are weedy compared to PC fans 

[Orbit]

I'm not sure about specs, but if you're willing to dish out the cash for a good computer, go with an Alienware.

[Paperbladder]

I've got a question about laptops while a thread is open about it, I've been looking at getting an high-end Inspiron XPS and I'm wondering if they're worth the $3K-4K you have to plop down initially.  I've read a few reviews praising the XPS M170 but I'm wondering if there's a better deal on a Desktop Replacement.

[Morrigan]

Idk, what are the specs on an XPS? For that money I'd be looking for a whole lotta machine!! I'm sure you could get a much better deal on a desktop, simply because laptops are much more expensive. Personally, I'm a Sony fan...I've never owed a desktop (got into computers kinda late  ) and I'm on my 3rd Sony laptop, I've found them extremely reliable. The only thing I don't like is they come loaded with a ton of programs I'll never use, so I delete em    And they're not so easy to upgrade as a desktop is, unless you really know what you're doing.  And since I live in the UK, I have no clue about laptop prices in the US. I paid £1400 for my last laptop, which I guess is around $2500, and I know I could have bought a desktop with nuch higher specs for that money.

But I just like laptops.....

[kacidama]

My daughter bought a laptop and we specifically stated we wanted to play games on it and that the graphics card should be good - Intel 915GMA.  Intel state that there is no conflict with Sims2 but Maxis don't support it.  Although Sims2 runs ok the EPs slow it down until OFB brings it to a full stop. 

Not sure what we can upgrade to - my desktop has an ATI Radeon 9600

[jrd]

Have you tried hacking the Graphics Rules.sgr file? I can get TS2 to play on my unsupported laptop this way.

[anelca]

i didn't have to hack my graphics rules to play
mine's a toshiba satellite with an integrated unsupported ATI radeon 7000, omega drivers and set so the graphics card uses 128mb
i have all the expansion packs and each seem sto make my game play better. don't quite know how that works but it does

i'd definitely go with a cooler pad for it to sit on whatever you get. mine used to crash frequently because of overheating but never does now i have a cooler pad

[microman]

If you are looking for more of a gaming a laptop, you should go with Alienware, as they offer AMD processors which are better for gaming.

[SpaceDoll]

Laptops are a huge investment, and so few parts on them are upgradeable.  If this is going to be a gaming computer, you must get an upgradeable graphics card, nothing integrated.  Some of the new PCI-E cards are even user upgradeable.  Look for MXM PCI-E cards.

[J. M. Pescado]

My daughter bought a laptop and we specifically stated we wanted to play games on it and that the graphics card should be good - Intel 915GMA.  Intel state that there is no conflict with Sims2 but Maxis don't support it.  Although Sims2 runs ok the EPs slow it down until OFB brings it to a full stop. 

Intel does not make video cards worth shit. In the modern video card market, there are two manufacturers worth mentioning: ATI and NVidia. All else is shit and doesn't count as a video card fit for gaming.

[Mike]

My daughter bought a laptop and we specifically stated we wanted to play games on it and that the graphics card should be good - Intel 915GMA.  Intel state that there is no conflict with Sims2 but Maxis don't support it.  Although Sims2 runs ok the EPs slow it down until OFB brings it to a full stop. 

Intel does not make video cards worth shit. In the modern video card market, there are two manufacturers worth mentioning: ATI and NVidia. All else is shit and doesn't count as a video card fit for gaming.

I have an Intel graphics card, sadly. If it wasn't for my fast processor, I'd have no way to play.

[J. M. Pescado]

I wasn't aware Intel made actual graphics CARDS, even. I thought they just had onboard "graphics substitutes", like Diet Coke is to real Coke.

[Stitches]

I wouldn't recommend a laptop for TS2 at all.  I've got a high end Alienware laptop and it really doesn't like the game.

[jsalemi]

I don't know -- my secondary/travel system is a Dell Inspiron 6000 with an ATI Mobile Radeon card, and it plays TS2 and all EPs just fine.

[Hegelian]

A few things to keep in mind:

For any given performance level, a laptop is going to cost at least 1000 USD more than an equivalent desktop. If you already have a monitor you are happy with, you can get a new PC sans monitor from an online vendor like HP for considerably less than 1000 USD that will run TS2 very well indeed—although you would want to buy an aftermarket graphics controller to replace the integrated graphics (you'd still be well under 1000 USD).

Fast laptops shoehorn desktop CPUs into the laptop form factor, making those laptops hot and noisy (the little CPU fans have what to me is an obnoxious whine). Also, they are heavy at 10+ lbs (4.5 kilos).

The Intel integrated graphics are a lot better than they used to be; the 9xx series supports DirectX 9 in hardware. Nonetheless, they are still limited. The 915 chipset/graphics controller in my HP laptop will not run Body Shop, but the game plays fine although without much detail. Remember that TS2 scales for your hardware much more than most games, and people with low-end graphics often state that the game runs well for them. Then you show them the game on a high-end graphics controller with all video settings on high and they say, "I never saw that before . . . um, I never saw that before . . . and um, I never saw that before," etc.

On a laptop you're going to be playing the game on the LCD, and virtually all games look much better on a CRT than on an LCD, TS2 included. The game looks much better on my CRT (170 USD) than it does on my LCD (700 USD).

TS2 is CPU-limited, so what you can achieve with a low-power-consumption mobile CPU like Intel's Centrino line will be limited.

Don't forget the limitations of laptop keyboards. Even the best are barely adequate. Of course, if you want a real keyboard, scare up an old Northgate OmniKey or splurge on this modern copy:
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/Nehemiah/00000042.html

Oh yeah:  laptop hard drives are dog slow—you need to pay a premium just for 7200 RPM, and 10K RPM is just a dream.

The bottom line is that unless you have a legitimate need for the portability of a laptop, it is not a good value for the money.

At one time Intel marketed its own line of video controllers, but the last one I know of was the Intel740 Graphics Accelerator, released in 1998. It was not regarded highly if I remember correctly.   

Intel does not make video cards worth shit. In the modern video card market, there are two manufacturers worth mentioning: ATI and NVidia. All else is shit and doesn't count as a video card fit for gaming.

"Fit for gaming" is the operative phrase here. For seriously high-end graphics, both nVidia and ATi offer 1000+ USD graphics controllers (nVidia's Quadro line and ATi's FireGL line), but so do other companies such as 3Dlabs (Wildcat Realizm 800), although sadly, Creative Technologies (i.e., Sound Blaster) has bought 3Dlabs and is "refocusing" the operation on portable hand-held devices—bleh.

[idtaminger]

What would you guys recommend in terms of light and portable, but still has decent graphics (i.e. at least radeon 9200 level). I want a laptop for school, so the bulk of the use is going to be there, but I'd also like to be able to play games on it occasionally.

[Stitches]

I don't know -- my secondary/travel system is a Dell Inspiron 6000 with an ATI Mobile Radeon card, and it plays TS2 and all EPs just fine.

You mentioned it as a secondary system, though. How often do you actually play the game on it and for what periods of time and is it the same quality game that you get on a desktop?

I ask because of the wear and tear factor. Laptops don't have sufficient ventilation. If you play for prolonged periods of time, you're dooming your laptop to a shorter life. The heat generated in the machine contributes to accelerated hardware failure. In laptops, this is often fatal as they aren't made to be repaired easily or cheaply.

I'm not saying don't get a laptop. I got mine so that I COULD take the game with me when I travel, but mostly I play on my PC and reserve my laptop for work. However, I did want to warn people that laptops are not meant for gaming because, believe it or not, many people assume they can get the same quality game play from a laptop as from a desktop. Then they feel like a jerk six months later when they realize that laptops are not "desktop replacements."

[Hegelian]

What would you guys recommend in terms of light and portable, but still has decent graphics (i.e. at least radeon 9200 level). I want a laptop for school, so the bulk of the use is going to be there, but I'd also like to be able to play games on it occasionally.

IMO, the best value out there these days is HP; but you'll probably want one of the business machines, as the consumer models (as with all vendors) are pretty flimsy, particularly the keyboards. You can get good deals ordering on-line, but if you're going to be using it for school you'd be best served by going to one or more retailers and giving the keyboards on the display models a good workout. If you don't like the keyboard, you're not going to be happy with it for school work. IBM used to have a reputation for having the best keyboards (I have an old one from 1999 and the keyboard is excellent for a laptop), but I don't know if the quality is still there now that IBM sold its laptop division to the Chinese company Lenovo.    Toshiba used to also have good keyboards, but I don't know if that is still the case. I've not used Dell laptops much, but my impression is that the keyboards are mediocre at best; and in any case, Dell is no longer a good value for the money most of the time.

The laptops from small and boutique vendors are all made by the same two or three Taiwanese OEM manufacturers, so there's not much point in paying a premium price for a "name" boutique product since you're just buying the brand name with the extra dollars.

You don't say what your budget is, but I'd be looking at something like the HP Compaq nc6230 with an ATi Mobility Radeon X300 graphics controller (you'll find these in the Small and Medium Business section of the HP Web site).

If you have more money and want some style, some of the Sony models are well-regarded. You might look for something with illuminated key characters, as the one gripe with the HP is the difficulty in seeing the white lettering on the black keys in dim light.

[Paperbladder]

Is there any other company that has a better deal on the 4K Dell Inspiron XPS M1710 that has similar statistics?  As I see it, they're like this.
Processor: Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2500
OS: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
RAM:2GB5 DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM
HDD:100GB5 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive
CD-Drives:Featured Upgd-8XCD/DVD Burner(DVD+/-RW)w/dble-layer DVD+R write capability
Wireless Networking Cards:Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps6)
Video Card:512MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7900 GTX

I plan on using the computer as sort of a "Desktop Replacement" and have it be slightly quicker than my Athlon 3000+ with 1GB of RAM.  I also don't want to buy a new one in the 4 years that I'm going to be in college, which is why I want to spend so much on it right now.

I've heard Alienware Laptops run much slower, even though they have desktop processors.  Also, it ended up being over $5,000 when I customized an Alienware.

[jsalemi]

I don't know -- my secondary/travel system is a Dell Inspiron 6000 with an ATI Mobile Radeon card, and it plays TS2 and all EPs just fine.

You mentioned it as a secondary system, though. How often do you actually play the game on it and for what periods of time and is it the same quality game that you get on a desktop?

I ask because of the wear and tear factor. Laptops don't have sufficient ventilation. If you play for prolonged periods of time, you're dooming your laptop to a shorter life. The heat generated in the machine contributes to accelerated hardware failure. In laptops, this is often fatal as they aren't made to be repaired easily or cheaply.

I play TS2+ on it pretty much every weekend that we go to our vacation home (which is most weekends), for a couple of hours at a time. And played on it every day for the week we were on vacation out there last month.  Plus, the laptop pretty much runs 24/7 at home -- it lives in our family room, hooked into our wireless network for internet access.  My wife uses it most of the time when she's home for web surfing and the like, and I use it to surf the web while watching TV.

As for the heat factor, it's easily solved -- a $20 cooling fan pad from Staples that plugs into the USB port keeps it nice and cool. My last laptop (also a Dell) did fry its hard drive because of heat issues, but I've learned my lesson (and got a faster HD for it at the same time ). And even then, it took close to 2 years to fry the HD, at which point the laptop was getting due for replacement anyway.

And I agree that a laptop wouldn't replace a desktop as the primary system, at least for me, but I don't agree that there aren't good ones out there that are a perfectly good compromise for folks who need the portability, but don't have the funds to own 2 or three PCs.

[J. M. Pescado]

If you need two PCs and can't afford one, you're going to have to temporarily cut back on unnecessary expenses, like food.

[Ellatrue]

Is there any other company that has a better deal on the 4K Dell Inspiron XPS M1710 that has similar statistics?  As I see it, they're like this.
Processor: Intel® Core™ Duo Processor T2500
OS: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
RAM:2GB5 DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM
HDD:100GB5 7200rpm SATA Hard Drive
CD-Drives:Featured Upgd-8XCD/DVD Burner(DVD+/-RW)w/dble-layer DVD+R write capability
Wireless Networking Cards:Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 802.11a/g Mini Card (54Mbps6)
Video Card:512MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7900 GTX

I plan on using the computer as sort of a "Desktop Replacement" and have it be slightly quicker than my Athlon 3000+ with 1GB of RAM.  I also don't want to buy a new one in the 4 years that I'm going to be in college, which is why I want to spend so much on it right now.

I've heard Alienware Laptops run much slower, even though they have desktop processors.  Also, it ended up being over $5,000 when I customized an Alienware.

How much does that one cost?