More Awesome Than You!
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
2024 November 04, 21:56:07

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
540285 Posts in 18067 Topics by 6544 Members
Latest Member: Butternut
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  More Awesome Than You!
|-+  TS2: Burnination
| |-+  The Podium
| | |-+  Sims, birds, and bees
0 Members and 4 Chinese Bots are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] THANKS THIS IS GREAT Print
Author Topic: Sims, birds, and bees  (Read 16008 times)
anyeone
Corpulent Cretin
*
Posts: 118


View Profile WWW
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #25 on: 2006 May 02, 21:51:47 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

TS2 is Object-Oriented.  Sims themselves are objects and they interact with objects using a method system.  Heck, even Social Interactions are still objects and they haven't even bothered to change it since S1.  In other words, they aren't "sentient" and won't be capable of "sentience" in this Sims Cycle.

The fact that they're forced to act upon objects and relying on an attenuation values on said such objects for their AI/AS, makes them complete morons and only able to figure out if someone is "cheating" by seeing an object that relates to another sim or witnesses the event.  I guess memory pillaging could help in figure out who's cheating with who if sims were allowed to pillage it, but then it would probably produce some undesired effects and they're probably missing data in their current state.

The object orientation of the game is irrelevant.  Register a delegate between sims when they get joined (or fall in love while living together, you get the idea).  When a sim because pregnant, it fires an event.  The delegate on the spouse picks it up.  If the spouse picking up the "my partner is pregnant" event is female, trigger the WTFBBQ interaction.  If the spouse is male, no reason to be suspicious.  You could actually do something similar to have sims "notice" when their child's genetics is not within the realm of possibility for their union, but that is a little less important IMO.

I'm an object oriented developer, so I call bullshit on object orientation being the reason this doesn't work.
Logged

I'm not megalomaniacal, I just play that way.
J. M. Pescado
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
El Presidente
*****
Posts: 26287



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #26 on: 2006 May 02, 22:57:48 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

The object orientation of the game is irrelevant.  Register a delegate between sims when they get joined (or fall in love while living together, you get the idea).  When a sim because pregnant, it fires an event.  The delegate on the spouse picks it up.  If the spouse picking up the "my partner is pregnant" event is female, trigger the WTFBBQ interaction.  If the spouse is male, no reason to be suspicious.  You could actually do something similar to have sims "notice" when their child's genetics is not within the realm of possibility for their union, but that is a little less important IMO.
It is not quite that simple. Even assuming that a sim "knows" that his partner (if female, males normally only get this through alien abductions), is supposed to only become pregnant if a woohoo has occurred 2 days ago, the problem is that the game does not presently support any kind of timestamping of events, nor does it tend to keep track of many such "duplicate" events, which tends to put a lot of holes in its ability to make a deductive reasoning. Even if it did do this, people have enough corner cases to render nearly as many false positive results as real ones. The number of edge cases in this is simply massive, and there's no way of knowing whether or not this is, in fact, allowed or not, since sims don't really have any kind of decisionmaking of any sort. Ultimately this sort of thing is going to have to be left up to the player.

I suppose it would be possible to add an interaction to bust someone once the sufficiently obvious may have been proven, so that the player can choose to invoke it at his choosing.
Logged

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
lovemysims
Blathering Buffoon
*
Posts: 50



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #27 on: 2006 May 03, 18:30:09 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

What if an object appeared on the lot when the husband was not the father. It could be the test results (like an at home DNA Test) and have very high advertising. If the Dad got there 1st it would set off the cheated on reaction. But if another sim makes it there 1st they can throw it away. that way there is an element of surprise.
Logged
anyeone
Corpulent Cretin
*
Posts: 118


View Profile WWW
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #28 on: 2006 May 03, 20:42:47 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

The object orientation of the game is irrelevant.  Register a delegate between sims when they get joined (or fall in love while living together, you get the idea).  When a sim because pregnant, it fires an event.  The delegate on the spouse picks it up.  If the spouse picking up the "my partner is pregnant" event is female, trigger the WTFBBQ interaction.  If the spouse is male, no reason to be suspicious.  You could actually do something similar to have sims "notice" when their child's genetics is not within the realm of possibility for their union, but that is a little less important IMO.
It is not quite that simple. Even assuming that a sim "knows" that his partner (if female, males normally only get this through alien abductions), is supposed to only become pregnant if a woohoo has occurred 2 days ago, the problem is that the game does not presently support any kind of timestamping of events, nor does it tend to keep track of many such "duplicate" events, which tends to put a lot of holes in its ability to make a deductive reasoning. Even if it did do this, people have enough corner cases to render nearly as many false positive results as real ones. The number of edge cases in this is simply massive, and there's no way of knowing whether or not this is, in fact, allowed or not, since sims don't really have any kind of decisionmaking of any sort. Ultimately this sort of thing is going to have to be left up to the player.

I suppose it would be possible to add an interaction to bust someone once the sufficiently obvious may have been proven, so that the player can choose to invoke it at his choosing.

I agree that trying to keep track of the timing for heterosexual pregnancies might be unnecessarily complex, but in the case of the pregnant lesbian - the fact that she got pregnant at all shows there was infidelity with respect to her female partner, so if there were delegates listening timing wouldn't necessarily matter.

*shrug* I just think there are some little things that could be added that would go a long way.  I doubt Maxis will ever do it, and it's probably too complex to hack around (I don't attempt to write hacks for the Sims, I leave that to others more awesome than I) but I don't think that it would be too difficult were Maxis to decide to introduce that logic.
Logged

I'm not megalomaniacal, I just play that way.
knitro
Corpulent Cretin
*
Posts: 144



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #29 on: 2006 May 03, 22:53:23 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I personaly like the phone call/paternatiy test idea...make it cost a bit of cash too, as it would IRL..so our trailer trash simmies, would just have to keep wondering...hehehe

K
Logged

"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!"
jsalemi
Town Crier
Vacuous Vegetable
*****
Posts: 4475


In dog we trust, all others pay cash...


View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #30 on: 2006 May 03, 23:12:23 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT


I agree that trying to keep track of the timing for heterosexual pregnancies might be unnecessarily complex, but in the case of the pregnant lesbian - the fact that she got pregnant at all shows there was infidelity with respect to her female partner, so if there were delegates listening timing wouldn't necessarily matter.


See, but that's not necessarily true, either -- there are 'same-sex pregnancy' hacks out there, so a lesbian CAN be pregnant if you're using one. So there may or may not be infidelity involved.
Logged

Excelsior, you fathead!
I am Canadian.
anyeone
Corpulent Cretin
*
Posts: 118


View Profile WWW
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #31 on: 2006 May 03, 23:14:44 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Well, if Maxis had coded the logic in, then same-sex pregnancy hacks would need to work around it.

Maxis shouldn't code around hacks - hacks should code around Maxis. 
Logged

I'm not megalomaniacal, I just play that way.
J. M. Pescado
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
El Presidente
*****
Posts: 26287



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #32 on: 2006 May 04, 02:09:18 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I agree that trying to keep track of the timing for heterosexual pregnancies might be unnecessarily complex, but in the case of the pregnant lesbian - the fact that she got pregnant at all shows there was infidelity with respect to her female partner, so if there were delegates listening timing wouldn't necessarily matter.
Not necessarily true. She could have been pregnant already before they met: Remember, no timestamps.
Logged

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
syberspunk
Heretic
Terrible Twerp
****
Posts: 2365


ISTJ - what a crazy random happenstance


View Profile WWW
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #33 on: 2006 May 04, 04:50:53 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

I agree that trying to keep track of the timing for heterosexual pregnancies might be unnecessarily complex, but in the case of the pregnant lesbian - the fact that she got pregnant at all shows there was infidelity with respect to her female partner, so if there were delegates listening timing wouldn't necessarily matter.
Not necessarily true. She could have been pregnant already before they met: Remember, no timestamps.

Additionally... what if people wanted to work in surrogate mother or male donor stories? For example... if male same-sex couples hired a female sim to be impregnated and carry their child. Or if female same-sex couples hired a male friend as a sperm donor. In this case... it shouldn't necessarily be considered an infidelity. This would probably be far too complicated to code into the game without actually setting this up as a kind of scenario I suppose. Although sims have memories, they are essentially 'two dimensional' for lack of a better description. Sims can't really learn from their memories. In many cases, memories don't have that much of an effect besides acting as gates to other certain interactions or space holders to fulfill some specific goal. Sims pretty much just have an idea of what was a good memory (something to brag about) or bad memory (something to cry softly about Tongue).

The original jealousy system was a hacked up headache of a mess that even Pescado couldn't wrap his head around. I wouldn't want to throw in any other unnecessary monkey wrenches. The game just doesn't have well-designed 'A.I.' Sims are just utopiancreatures, where mostly everything is just a happy event for everyone, at least as far as having babies are concerned. Even having alien babies is at first a shocking but then ultimately happy event to be shared by all.  Cheesy

Ste
Logged

J. M. Pescado
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
El Presidente
*****
Posts: 26287



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #34 on: 2006 May 04, 08:14:29 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Although sims have memories, they are essentially 'two dimensional' for lack of a better description. Sims can't really learn from their memories.
Actually, that's really overstating the case. Sim memories are not even two-dimensional, they are one dimensional. In order for something to be TWO dimensional, it has to have two different axes, like an X and Y axis. Sim memories only have an X axis, the good/bad strength.
Logged

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
syberspunk
Heretic
Terrible Twerp
****
Posts: 2365


ISTJ - what a crazy random happenstance


View Profile WWW
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #35 on: 2006 May 04, 19:27:16 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Actually, that's really overstating the case. Sim memories are not even two-dimensional, they are one dimensional. In order for something to be TWO dimensional, it has to have two different axes, like an X and Y axis. Sim memories only have an X axis, the good/bad strength.

It's funny that you said that. I originally wrote it to say one dimensional... and then I edited myself thinking that didn't seem right. But I guess my original thinking was correct to begin with. Tongue Oh well, I think the gist of what I meant to say comes through. Memories are just like bits, with basically a good or bad 'value' and don't really have significantly long term effects.

It would be nice if things were a bit more complex, that they could actually program far more complex, realistic behaviours such as these, but the way it stands, it's just not possible. Maybe something that they'll might develop for Sims 3? Wink

Ste
Logged

J. M. Pescado
Fat Obstreperous Jerk
El Presidente
*****
Posts: 26287



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #36 on: 2006 May 05, 09:08:00 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Well, if you have my stuff, SOME memories actually have an impact on sim behavior. The Fight Club uses the fight memories to track battle experience, the Fire Mod uses the fire memories to decide whether or not a sim is used to things being on fire and thus reacts decisively to deal with the problem rather than freaking out, etc. The memory concept really could have been used a bit more. As it stands, it's mostly a cosmetic feature.
Logged

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they pissed me off.
KnightSkyKyte
Blathering Buffoon
*
Posts: 99



View Profile
Re: Sims, birds, and bees
« Reply #37 on: 2006 May 16, 06:52:11 »
THANKS THIS IS GREAT

Well... that explains why one of my sims is constantly congratulating his spouse for cheating on him.

But it IS annoying. He should NOT be congratulating his other half for it.

At least I know there's very little that can be done about it, besides a re-write of the whole code...

Logged

For male sim creations, check out my work on the InSimenator. For all my older works, check out my creations on MTS2.

*sigh* No, I am not male, why does everyone think that?
Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.096 seconds with 19 queries.