Weasel's 19th Century Challenge

[weasel]

This is my first day as a registered user on this forum, but I've been a long time guest lurker.

When I thought of this challenge, I decided that it was high time that I registered and so... here I am!

CHALLENGE
Description
Your sims are living in the 19^th century and they do not have access to the modern comforts that the rest of the sims are used to.

Your sims live in either a one story home with many bedrooms or a narrow two story home that is lavishly decorated, but either way, your sims live in the 19^th century and they can only live on what is available to them at the time.  But in either case, they live in a 19^th century style family home, which can be either located in the country side as a farm house, or as a city home.

Your sims will not permitted to dress in anything other than 19^th century clothing.

All About Style: Victorian

You can find the clothing required for the challenge above.

Permitted Objects

• the basic single and double beds
• simple dressers
• full length mirror
• wooden book cases
• chess table
• regular wooden dinning table
• wooden chairs
• a Victorian style sofa
• wooden coffee tables
• wodden end tables
• candle-like lights
• basic stove and fridge
• wooden countertop
• minimal wall paintings
• grandfather clock
• a simple trashcan
• wooden desk
• any Victorian themed furniture
• poker table
• for toddlers - only logic is allowed

Forbidden Objects

• TVs
• stereos
• cars
• video games
• computers
• cellphones
• any hand held game
• telescope
• fire alarms
• phones
• burglar alarms
• non-wooden tables
• non-wooden chairs
• modern sofas
• indoor bathrooms
• coffee makers
• blenders
• microwaves
• toaster ovens
• dishwashers
• trash compacters
• ceiling lights
• oddly shaped dressers
• lockers
• take out/delivery
• nanny
• gardener
• matchmaker
• bar tender
• adopting
• for toddlers - the rabbit and music isn't fitting

Women
Female sims in this challenge cannot hold a job of any type.  She may not have any other aspiration other than family.

They are to keep their hair tied up to some degree and wear long dresses, either of the calico variety or every day.  They can also wear the fancier ones.

They are to do all the house cleaing and child rearing.  They are to teach all the children to walk, talk, use the potty and help with homework.

Once girls reach their teenage years, they do not need to go to school any more and girls do not attend university.  They are instead married off as soon as possible.

Men
Male sims in this challenge may only hold one of two aspirations.  They can either be knowledge or fortune.  If they remain single, they may be popularity.

Also have a certain dress code to adhere to.  They are to wear either day suits, farm wear or other clothing appropriate to the time.

They have no direct role in child rearing and they don't have any household duties, as they are the bread winners.

They are restricted in their job options.  They may either serve in the military, become a politician or a doctor.

Children

...are to be seen and not heard.

Girls are to help with the housework and boys are exempt.

Elderly Sims

They are treated with respect and elder female sims can help with the work but mainly are there for guidance and elder male sims are free to relax and reflect on the good old days and pass their wisdom onto the grandchildren, should they be living in the house.

Scoring

50 pts for each child
100 pts for each boy
25 pts for twins
3000 pts for 10 children
200 pts for every child after 10
150 pts for each grandchild
5000 pts for 20 grandchildren
10 pts for each A+

-100 each time a boy does housework
-200 each time the man does housework
-400 for every girl that is in school after she becomes a teen
-2000 for each girl that attends university
-500 pts for a girl not married by the time she's an adult
-2500 pts if a girl hasn't had a child within 3 sim days of becoming an adult
-2500 pts if a girl has less than 5 children
-100 pts for not wearing time-appropriate clothing
-1000 pts for using an object on the forbidden list

Starting Out...
Using CAS, you may create two sims (2), one male and one female.  They are both to be dressed according.  Do not make any children using the CAS inteface.  Just get them to bed and make children as God intended.

You start on an empty lot and build your house up that way...

Hacks
Since having small families wasn't normal at the time, in this challenge I'm permitting any hacks that allow multiple births and for more than 8 sims to live in the house.  Also, hacks that permit teenagers to marry and have children are allowed for this challenge.  Oh and I guess any of Pescado's hacks are allowed....

And good luck!

Any thoughts?

[cabelle]

My thoughts on this challenge are that wealthier families did employ gardeners and nannies. And some of the ceiling fixtures in the game do resemble gas lights that were available around the 1850's. And while it was the "women's work" to take care of the inside of the house the menfolk were responsible for the gardening in the working class families.

And without the phone, how are sims supposed to keep in contact? Our ancestors kept in touch through the mail or telegraph and we don't have that option in the sims. They also "went calling" where they would rotate visiting their friends and having their own specific "at home" day where their friends could call upon them. Unless you used something like Inge's teleporter to bring their friends over on a certain day to visit you'd have to use the phone to bring them over.

I could be wrong but I was certain that early versions of telescopes existed during this time period. Scottish inventor James Short apparently made over 1500 of his version.

Business careers would also be appropriate for men (think of all the entrepeneurs of the time period!) and so would either Science career. The science careers could be the equivalent of the "quacks" who peddled their wares like "Dr. Jones Hair Restoring Tonic."

Girls sometimes would obtain secondary education in "finishing school" where they would become proficient in art, music or language. It was to show how "accomplished" they were. If a female sim went to a university a degree in art or philosophy would be acceptable.

And since we don't have old fashioned iceboxes, cookstoves or bath fixtures like we did with Sims1 what would be a good alternative?  Do you know of any good custom content around? I remember one of Maxis' past surveys when the mentioned the shopping packs and a "history" pack was one of the ideas. I sure hope they make a pack like that someday.

Sounds like a really interesting challenge. I have to admit I'm not into having my teens marry or have children though. I've got a book around here somewhere that seems to indicate that marrying during the teen years and having children was actually the exception and most of our ancestors married in their late teens early 20's. I'll go look for it. Drat, I just can't find that book. It had some statistics in it of the people researched and showed that the majority of both genders married in their 20's as opposed to the belief that most married in their teens. I'll keep looking for it though.

[Renatus]

I don't understand why toddler xylophones are banned. Xylophones aren't a new instrument, they were around in Europe since the 1500s, and the colours on it could be as simple as enameled metal, which has also been around for ages. I also don't see why they couldn't have stuffed toys or dollhouses.

Telephones are pretty much essential for the sims, and they also aren't non-Victorian technology, being invented in 1876. Perhaps they should have seperate small buildings for the phones?

No adoptions and no nannies also doesn't make sense. Nannies did exist back then, often in the form of governesses. Perhaps a sim that is moved in should perform this function, however. No adoptions is just silly because people have done things like foster out unwanted children for ages. In the Victorian era, they would sometimes do things like sign them over for apprenticeships - which, if they lived through them, they likely would not see much if any of their family until they were grown up.

The limitations on women are silly and sexist and display a total lack of knowledge about the era. Not all women popped out babies their entire lives, or only wanted to; some kept shops, others taught school, some were activists for women's liberation. Yes, even then. I believe some even attended universities.

This isn't a bad idea for a challenge but it isn't thought out well enough regarding the necessities of the game and doesn't take history into good enough account to be naming itself after the time period.

[Gus Smedstad]

It seems like it's mostly flavor and very little actual gameplay.  Far too much about what the Sims must dress and look like, and vague stuff like "elders are treated with respect," and far too little about how this is supposed to make the game actually different.

Some aspects don't seem to have any real way to implement them.  Like, your female children will be taken by the Social Worker if they don't go to school for 4 day straight, teenage marriage hacks or not.

Way too much record keeping, but that's very common.

 - Gus

[Renatus]

Inge's school mods over at SimLogical can be used to create a variety of situations for schooling.

However, that's one of the things that makes this challenge look more irritating than fun - it requires a lot of looking for and downloading of stuff to make it actually work, and doesn't support the basic game behaviours very well at all.

[Gus Smedstad]

I think it's OK to post challenges that require specific mods, provided the rules provide direct links to the required mods.

 - Gus

[sadiebutterfly]

This is way harsher than the restrictions I have on my historical Legacy neighbourhood.

My Sims have phones. For all friendships to be maintained face-to-face is totally impractical, and even before phones were invented people would have been able to communicate by letter. They also have indoor bathrooms, because they're rich. They are not, of course, allowed personal electronics, TVs, computers, stereos or cars (though it's the early 1900s now, and if I could find a nice vintage downloadable they would be).

Aspirations are determined at random. This is actually a lot harder than just making all girls family, because fortunes have a really hard time of it in a world without TV and bowling alleys. Nobody goes to uni (they'll get that in a few generations time, when I'm up to the 1960s and we can go all counterculture) so most of them take an aspiration hit at that stage. Most of the women and teenage girls don't have jobs, but some of them do. My founder's wife was a nurse when he met her and progressed to the top of the medical career. That's not even anachronistic, since there were women doctors from the mid-1800s onwards.

The way I play isn't really challenging enough to be a challenge, it's more of a way to spice up the Legacy routine a bit and have fun hunting for pretty dresses. Plus it gives you an impetus to play on, because you want to get to the next period and redecorate 

[Lion]

Sadiebutterfly

How do you set for the "period"? by generation? then how many generation? or by sim weeks?

How many era-restricted Legacy sims do you start in your neighborhood? Just one in midst of other "modern" sims? If so, do you dress them according to the era as well?

[Trubble]

That's interesting Sadie - I'd thought about a challenge similar actually maybe spanning a greater time distance. It is kind of weird how the sims are stuck in one time period (to be expected I know)... maybe that's something they'll build on in the future "evolutiosims".

[sadiebutterfly]

How do you set for the "period"? by generation? then how many generation? or by sim weeks?

How many era-restricted Legacy sims do you start in your neighborhood? Just one in midst of other "modern" sims? If so, do you dress them according to the era as well?

Basically it's generational, but I'm not too strict about that. I've kept them Victorian for longer than I 'should' have because it's my favourite historical period and I didn't want them shooting into the future too early. Gen 3 married the postman yesterday, and the gender of their offspring will probably determine how quickly I move into the 1920s. (On the one hand, I downloaded a Model T Ford from MTS2 yesterday. On the other, I'm having trouble finding teen flapper dresses...)

I started a new neighbourhood for the legacy with just one playable Sim, my legacy founder, all suited-up with a top hat. He married Brandi LeTourneau, who was whipped into 19C costume as soon as she moved in  Satellite households set up by spare descendants who didn't make it to heir are also dressed according to the period.

Townies and NPCs are in modern dress. I did have a hack that let my maid dress in Victorian style, but when the mail deliverers began turning up as llamas I got rid of it. If I were starting fresh now I'd deleteallcharacters to get rid of the townies and FORCE my period sims to marry NPCs.

I wish I could give you a link to my exchange story, but the official site is down, and anyway it won't let me upload the second installment because the file's too big. I think blogspot or livejournal beckons...

[SarahKjrsten]

As someone in love with history, this challenge caught my attention. I think that the historical inaccurancies can easily be fixed, and the challenge can be made playable.

Here are some of my ideas:

Starting Out:

- Start with a CAS- sim. Male or female, player's choice. The player could also make a couple, or siblings etc. No toddlers, children or teens however. Dress the couple in appropriate fashion for the time period (All About Style has some great clothes for example)
- Move the sim/couple into a lot.
- If you want to pretend that your male sim has an 'inheritance', use 'kaching' or 'motherlode'
- Find jobs for your sims (Male sims: Business, Politics, Medical, Science, Military), (Female sims: Medica (nurse)l, Business (aka secretary), Slacker (Since I can't think of a job that equates to teaching off of the top of my head)).


The House:

- Keep furnishings as period as possible
- In the kitchen you are allowed a refidgerator, stove and sink. (If you want to find other kitchen items that have been re-meshed to look period, eg: I seem to recall a food processor on MTS2 that looked like a mortar and pestal, feel free to do so)
- An indoor bathroom can contain a bathtub (no shower), and sink. The toilet should be kept in a seperate building outside of the house. (If you are able to find a period toilet, feel free to move it back into the house)
- Bonus points if you download/build a victorian style house

Revised List of 'Forbidden Objects' as well as exceptions:

Forbidden Objects

    * TVs
    * stereos (however, if anyone's made a phonograph mesh stereo, you may use that)
    * cars (if you can find period cars/wagons/carriages, you may use those)
    * video games
    * computers
    * cellphones
    * any hand held game
    * fire alarms (If you can find any that have been recolored to be unobtrusive, you may use those--after all, neighbors etc would            have helped a family get a hold of the fire department and/or helped put the fire out themselves)
    * phones (CAN be used. But only one. Phones at this time were placed out in the hallway and it was often the housekeeper's job to answer them)
    * burglar alarms
    * non-wooden tables
    * non-wooden chairs
    * modern sofas
    * coffee makers (As coffee was drunk at this time, if you can find a coffee maker that has be remeshed to appear period, feel free to use it)
    * blenders
    * microwaves
    * toaster ovens
    * dishwashers
    * trash compacters
    * oddly shaped dressers (As 'oriental' furnishings were rather chic and vogue at the time, you may use these)
    * lockers
    * take out/delivery (A lot of food was delievered to the house at this time--not just milk and ice, but also meat etc, you may use delievery, although take out/pizza may not be used)
    * for toddlers - the rabbit (if you can find a remeshed 'rabbit' object that appears more period, you may use it)

Other amended rules:

Women
Female sims in this challenge can hold a job.  She may have any aspiration the creator feels like giving her.

They are to keep their hair tied up to some degree and wear long dresses, either of the calico variety or every day.  They can also wear the fancier ones.

They are to do most (not all) of the house cleaing and child rearing.  They are to teach all the children to walk, talk, use the potty and help with homework.

Teenage girls are still allowed to go to school, as well as University. However, if you feel more comfortable in your game downloading SimLogical hacks had having your teens at home, feel free.

No babies out of wedlock!

Men
Male sims in this challenge may only hold any aspiration. 

Also have a certain dress code to adhere to.  They are to wear either day suits, farm wear or other clothing appropriate to the time.

They have a reduced (not nonexistant)  role in child rearing and they  have less household duties, as they are the bread winners.

Children

...are to be seen and not heard.

Girls and boys are to help with the housework.

Elderly Sims

Similar roles to the adult sims.


Revised points:

50 pts for each child
100 pts for each boy
25 pts for twins
3000 pts for 10 children
200 pts for every child after 10
150 pts for each grandchild
5000 pts for 20 grandchildren
10 pts for each A+


-100 pts for a girl not married by the time she's an adult
-500 pts for not wearing time-appropriate clothing
-1000 pts for using an object on the forbidden list

[cabelle]

Yay, another history lover! Hi SarahKjrsten. Thanks for the tip about the remeshed food processor/morter & pestle, I'm going to go check out MTS2 and see if I can find it.

The other thing with this challenge is I've been wondering about is if there should be a minor penalty to going above a certain number of sims dying from old age. 50% of children died before they reached the age of 5, the #1 cause of death among women was fire (getting too close to the fire in those long skirts, especially when wearing a crinoline) and #2 was childbirth. Though I wonder how that should be worked in the challenge, roll a dice or something to determine whether the sim lives or dies to the next stage. 

[Trubble]

I wish I could give you a link to my exchange story, but the official site is down, and anyway it won't let me upload the second installment because the file's too big. I think blogspot or livejournal beckons...

When it's back up I'd love a link! And (shameless plug) there's a brief guide to using LJ and it's features for hosting sim stories at this link

[sadiebutterfly]

http://thesims2.ea.com/mysimpage/uploads.php?user_id=1945457&nstart=1&asset_type=story

Yay! Part 2 made it after all! Still going to give them a blog, though...

[Lion]

Numenor at MTS2 has a coal stove so that you don't need modern oven, link: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=131507. 

A "pee anywhere" for male, link: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=120590. It has link to female.

More civilized?  toilet and sink bucket: http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=91677

[Ellatrue]

Yes, but that makes the challenge too easy. Life sucked for women in victorian times. The jobs that they were allowed to hold were mostly crap.

Out of wedlock births did happen, too (esp among the poor). Revisions for kitchen and bathroom rules are good, too. They should also be allowed a telephone to prevent starvation- and I think they did have them then? As party lines toward the end of the victorian era?

A man's role in child rearing, realistically, I think, would be nonexistent- and if you are playing a middle class family, so would the woman's- most child rearing was handled by servants. The woman would deal with the servants and the running of the household.

Plus, the point system is kind of wussy. No points for an A plus! Too easy!

As someone in love with history, this challenge caught my attention. I think that the historical inaccurancies can easily be fixed, and the challenge can be made playable.

50 pts for each child
100 pts for each boy
25 pts for twins
3000 pts for 10 children
200 pts for every child after 10
150 pts for each grandchild
5000 pts for 20 grandchildren
10 pts for each A+


-100 pts for a girl not married by the time she's an adult
-500 pts for not wearing time-appropriate clothing
-1000 pts for using an object on the forbidden list

[Morganthe]

Err...while I agree that most of the orgional challenge was historically inaccurate, I have one point to make about gameplay.  Kids get taken by the social worker for not going to school, but Teens do not.  So, as the challenge stated, teen girls can't go to school, and this would be acceptable within a non-hacked game.  Also, this would lead to them not being allowed to enter University on the game's system (cannot be failing to apply).  I think perhaps a better system is that no more than one girl for every 2 or 3 generations may attend school and university after they become a teen.  This is more realistic, as not every generation had a girl that went on to break societal norms.  Or perhaps a random system for assigning aspirations after the first aim (a la Legacy) and only knowledge girls may attend school in their teen years? 

All that said, I think I may try this out.  The clothes alone would be a challenge....

[jinx]

Hello just wanted to know are you allowed to have horses or a horse and carriage? It was one of the main forms of transport and they have downloads on modthesims2  you could make some old style shops or a church for them to travel to or maybe a tavern.

[Jack Rudd]

(Female sims: Medica (nurse)l, Business (aka secretary), Slacker (Since I can't think of a job that equates to teaching off of the top of my head)).

The level 4 Science job is a science teacher. I don't know if that's any good to you.