The Entrepreneural Spirit - Building and selling businesses.

[Hook]

True entrepreneurs do not run businesses.  They start new ones, build them up, then sell them.  This works in the game as well.  Here's how to do it.

I started with the Larson brother and sister from the family bin.  These Sims have only the normal §20K starting money, and only about 4 skill points between them.  They are both fortune Sims. You could do the same thing with CAS Sims, but keep in mind you'll need two, as one can't handle a business by himself.

I bought my Sims a 2x2 lot, put up a very basic house.  I bought the cheapest toilet, shower and fridge to get the aspiration points.  I also bought a phone.  This left my Sims with enough money to purchase one of the tiny §5K lots in Bluewater, although you could build a small store yourself if you wish.

My Sims called a taxi and went to the lot.  They had §3,300 left to stock the store, which they did, with various decorative items from medium to high price range.  They immediately started greeting customers and doing sales interactions.  And racking up customer loyalty stars. They couldn't even restock any items until one of the customers made a purchase.  But the business went well, with both Sims selling, one running a register as needed, the other restocking as needed.

Eventually I got the business up to level 3.  I returned all remaining stock back to the catalog for refund, and found that my Sims had made about §5K for the day, probably about 16 Sim hours.  They went home, then my Sim got on the phone and sold the business for §15K plus the cost of the lot and building.  That was about §20K for about 16 hours of work.  And no skills.  Note that each business level is worth §5K if you decide to sell the business.

The next day my Sims did it again, with the same lot.  Again, they ended up with §20K from the profits and the sale of the business.  Getting a business to level 3 isn't very difficult at all, and you get to keep the perks you earn at the business so they build up over time.  And you gain badges for Sales, Restocking and Cashier.

The real goal here wasn't to make money selling stuff, but to make money by building up a business and selling the business.  Entrepreneurs do this in real life, and the goal is to sell the successful business at a decent profit.  You might be able to sell stuff for lower than normal price just to build customer loyalty faster, altho I haven't tried that yet.

Of course, once your Sims are successful, the §5K per business level isn't worth that much, but it's still good for §20K a day if you want to work it.

Hook

[sanmonroe]

Also remember that employees add to the sale price.

You can majorly rack up the price of any lot just by hiring 7 towniees. Don't need to ever pay them or have them come in, but the skilled labor drastically raise the value.

[Mirelly]

Also remember that employees add to the sale price.

You can majorly rack up the price of any lot just by hiring 7 towniees. Don't need to ever pay them or have them come in, but the skilled labor drastically raise the value.

Ack! That's just too easy IMO. Sneaky though.

Thanks for the insights, Hook!

[LordHellscream]

They went home, then my Sim got on the phone and sold the business for §15K plus the cost of the lot and building.  That was about §20K for about 16 hours of work.  And no skills.  Note that each business level is worth §5K if you decide to sell the business.

What i would have done iis open business at home to sell the deed (all you need to do is open business, get someone to buy the ownership deed and close business)
this way u make quite a bit more with only a little bit more effort.

[LordHellscream]

The real goal here wasn't to make money selling stuff, but to make money by building up a business and selling the business.

In that case, there is a even cheaper way to do it, just open a beauty salon, set the price for make up to $1, u dont even need a salesperson and customer will fill the buy bar on their own faster than you can do makeup
and since the price is lower than redicolously cheap, they get a big bonus after the makeup (you get bonus loyalty boost if stuffs you sell are really cheap, and u get loyalty hit if customer bought something that is too expensive) you business ranking goes up in NO time. I managed to get a beauty salon's business ranking to 7 in half a day with one sim working (no salesperson, no employee)

[J. M. Pescado]

You don't even need to open the business. I've made profits just buying the community lot, then jacking it up to "Ridiculously Expensive" and then selling it off at more than I paid for it to some hapless townie.

[Motoki]

I did this and as far as I'm concerned, it's a cheat. In fact, it's so damned easy to do, I feel it's akin to using motherlode. You can literally buy any business, jack up the price to double (ridiculously expensive) and easily sell to some random townie in a couple of minutes without ever having gone to the damned business and lifted a finger. And as has been noted you can even jack up the price past double by calling on the phone or hiring in person a bunch of employees with lots of skills and badges. Even though those employees have never gone to the business and you haven't paid them a cent, it makes the price go up.

I sold one of my businesses for double in about a minute to some townie teen with very little effort on my part. If you really want to do this, why not save yourself several steps and just hit motherlode. 

I think this 'feature' is way too overpowered and it's more than sufficient to be able to sell your lot back to the town via the phone and get back it's market value plus the value of the lot. The fact that you can double or more any amount of money in a minute or so with this ' Entrepreneural Spirit' is just more evidence to me that Maxis is pandering to BBS kids and cheaters who want everything super easy and want it right away.

Sorry but it just really made me mad when I found out you could do this and it made me feel really dirty and cheap like I had just hit motherlode and that's a cheat I never use. I think I'll have to have that sim donate some money to 'charity' to clense myself now. 

[J. M. Pescado]

I think this 'feature' is way too overpowered and it's more than sufficient to be able to sell your lot back to the town via the phone and get back it's market value plus the value of the lot. The fact that you can double or more any amount of money in a minute or so with this ' Entrepreneural Spirit' is just more evidence to me that Maxis is pandering to BBS kids and cheaters who want everything super easy and want it right away.

Sorry but it just really made me mad when I found out you could do this and it made me feel really dirty and cheap like I had just hit motherlode and that's a cheat I never use. I think I'll have to have that sim donate some money to 'charity' to clense myself now. 

Heh, it's just one more in a long string of senseless abuses, just like the move-in/move-out exploit that got squished by No 20K Handouts.

[Hook]

First of all, you're not going to sell *anything* for double at 9 AM on your first Monday morning right out of CAS.  No sales badges, remember?  You only start out with §20K, and you still need to build a house.  If you're worried about turning a business over in minutes simply by jacking up the price, why not worry about any other item in the game?  There's nothing special about a business, except that they tend to be more expensive.  *IF* you have the money to buy an expensive one in the first place.  And you have to be a damned potent salesman to sell anything at "ridiculously expensive," especially something that's a high ticket item to begin with.

I hired two employees with decent badges, but I didn't see any difference whatsoever in the sale price of the business.  Do I have to hire all 7?  If I can buy a cheap business, then hire 7 employees, then sell it for more than I paid for it, then it's a little easy, but not out of line with real life.  If there's a trick to it, what's the trick?  Besides selling the deed to a townie at an inflated price, of course.

This technique is intended for a CAS Sim first starting out.  After that they will have racked up sales badges and such.

Hook

[J. M. Pescado]

First of all, you're not going to sell *anything* for double at 9 AM on your first Monday morning right out of CAS.  No sales badges, remember?

9 AM, no. Give me a few hours to work up my sales badge, and you damn well better believe I will.

You only start out with §20K, and you still need to build a house.

Field studies have shown it is entirely possible to survive on an empty lot devoid of furnishings.

If you're worried about turning a business over in minutes simply by jacking up the price, why not worry about any other item in the game?  There's nothing special about a business, except that they tend to be more expensive.  *IF* you have the money to buy an expensive one in the first place.  And you have to be a damned potent salesman to sell anything at "ridiculously expensive," especially something that's a high ticket item to begin with.

Maybe, but I am more awesome than you.

This technique is intended for a CAS Sim first starting out.  After that they will have racked up sales badges and such.

Raking in a sales badge is like napalming fish in a barrel. It's the easiest badge in the game.

[Motoki]

Pescado pretty much summed everything up. Sales badges are not exactly hard to get. And I believe the manipulate perk can be passed on to someone with no sales badges. This 'technique' as far as I am concerned is an exploit at best and an out and out cheat at worst.

And yes I know 'don't use then' bla bla bla, but I'd just rather not have such ridiculously easy gameplay available in the first place and I think others wouldnt either (hence the need for hacks like no20khandouts, expensivenpcs, harderjobs etc).

Personally, I wish Maxis would have just made a separate 'sandbox mode' for all the cheaters and gimmee everything now types and left some challenge in the regular game without all the cheats, loopholes and exploits being available.

[SimSherry]

   Cool tips, Hook.  Thanks!

[LordHellscream]

You don't even need to open the business. I've made profits just buying the community lot, then jacking it up to "Ridiculously Expensive" and then selling it off at more than I paid for it to some hapless townie.

to be able to sell anything u have to open business first, i was talking setting up a real estate business at home

[J. M. Pescado]

Pescado pretty much summed everything up. Sales badges are not exactly hard to get. And I believe the manipulate perk can be passed on to someone with no sales badges. This 'technique' as far as I am concerned is an exploit at best and an out and out cheat at worst.

The Manipulate perk is also not unconditionally good! Besides, it's more a non-technique, since you flashy-thingy your customer.

[Sagana]

<laugh>

You know what the difference is between you and me? I make this look good.

[Motoki]

to be able to sell anything u have to open business first, i was talking setting up a real estate business at home

Technically, yes. But you can basically just 'start a home business' just to sell a lot deed you just bought and then close the business down after that. It's not like you have to really run a full bustling business per say to sell the deed.

[angelyne]

Motoki, the whole game IS a sandbox, moreso that any other game in the "sim" line.  All their other games had scenarios which offered more or less challenge.  You could win or loose.  There are no such concepts in this game.  No way to win.  The closest you'd come would be to do well or do badly, but both have their own rewards.

I mean with this current "feature" we are discussing.  They had fun discovering it could be done.  They are having fun discussing it.  But once you have done it a couple of times, whatever fun value has been extracted from it. Some people love discovering exploits or ways to "beat the game".  That's their fun. Gamers

But in the context of this game it's pretty irrelevant, since the game has been designed with buit-in exploits to begin with, because it is a sandbox and the idea is to allow you do do whatever you wish.  So Maxis has never even given any consideration to preventing exploits and making the game "balanced" because those concepts don't apply here.  And even if they had given any consideration to preventing exploits, people would have found a way around them, so why try, when it's so irrelevant anyway.

So I'm having fun setting up business that seem to integrate well with my sims personalities.  One of them is an artist of some renown and has set up her art gallery.  Another wants to be a mad scientist, so it seems appropriate that she is tinkering with robots.  So I just discovered I could be instantly successful by selling the business.  Goodie. But I don't want to sell the business because I am investing all this time setting it up the way I want.  So I could familyFunds myself a cool million if I wanted. and I could max out all my skills.  And I could give myself a gold badge in everything.  Put myself into the top of my career.  and then what.  Go watch tv I guess, because the game would be pointless at that point.

[J. M. Pescado]

I think basically the real fundamental hole is selling businesses to townies: If you sell a business off to a townie, it will be guaranteed to rake in an outlandish sum of money because townies, essentially, are the open cycle in what could otherwise be considered a nearly closed ecosystem: After all, it doesn't matter what outlandish price you sell a community lot to a PLAYABLE sim for, because selling an item to a playable sim is essentially zero-sum, other than the bothersome maintenance and upkeep it creates when selling an item, since in order to recoup the money wasted on this item, your sim must then pawn it off on some other sim, a bothersome exercise for the non-store-owning. Lot properties, however, lack this level of nuisance.

[Lion]

So I could familyFunds myself a cool million if I wanted. and I could max out all my skills.  And I could give myself a gold badge in everything.  Put myself into the top of my career.  and then what.  Go watch tv I guess, because the game would be pointless at that point.

You said it there. When you completely "beat" the game, you have nothing else to do. That's why the game is intended for sims to work hard to gain all the skills, and got to top of their career, etc. to reach perma plat state. Therefore we do need balance in gameplay and some sort of goals even though it is a sandbox game. Yes cheats are everywhere and some people like to use them, maybe to see what it is like, maybe for writing a story or making a movie. That's why I'm working on my house rules too to make it interesting. A successful business is the goal for OFB, at least for me, and I will refrain from using easy exploits, like this one here. And I think Maxis should have given it more thought. If they fail to do it, the community, especially our JM, will do something to balance it, or make it more reasonable, such as no20khandout.

[Motoki]

angelyne: I don't want a sandbox game. I want structure and goals and to earn things. I can appreciate that some people like to have access to everything from the get go and be able to do anything and I can see it's uses for storytelling and making movies and blogs to share and such, but that's not what interests me. For me even if I chose not to use shortcuts, having them available cheapens the game for me and makes much accomplishments seem far less.

The Movies had a sandbox mode and a regular gameplay mode, though as I said I could see uses for the sandbox mode and why it might appeal to some people, it wasn't for me and I never touched it but I did appreciate very much the fact that they kept both modes separate and didn't mix the two.

[sanmonroe]

If Maxis had simply given each towniee a limit on purchases based on how much money they have (remember, you can ask and they give you an answer) lots of the stupid loopholes would be closed. They can regen that money whent hey leave, but you wouldn't be able to pull stupid shit like selling 20 TVs to a single towniee in a single visit.

Thats why lots of CAS sims >>> towniees.

[Motoki]

I agree, the whole unlimited townie funds is kind of ridiculous. Both from a realism and from a gameplay balance point of view, though most balance because who am I kidding there isn't much realism in this game, it makes no sense that 50+ sims can afford a 1 million simolean lot deed.

Oh and I DID make a whole bunch of CAS sims that I never play to function as townies but it's driving me up the wall now since they are clogging up my job list every day and have no badges or skills.  But that's a whle 'nother issue I suppose.

[sanmonroe]

They are the best employees though. You don't ahve to pay them for extra skills and badges. Train them for one job and thats that.

[angelyne]

Fundamentaly I agree with you Motoki, because we have a similar play style; don't use cheats myself, at least never to make my gaming easier.  I'll use cheats to customize it the way I want (i.e. a hack to change the appearance of maxis townies), but I manage my sims needs, mood, aspirations, career etc, the hard way.  The "cheatiest" thing I have is the teleport bush, but I don't use if I can call a sim instead.  That's the reason most of my hacks are from here.  I like JM's style.  He write hacks that correct bugs or nuisances. Some of his hacks make the game easier, but only by eliminating tedious micro-management. 

But Maxis designed the game without our input, so I don't worry about it <shrug>  I just make up my own rules when I play.

Sanmonroe, I thought about that.  I think the reason they choose not to impose limits is because that would be too limiting.  In real life, you have thousands of potential customers in any fair sized city.  In Sim life, you have only your small pool of townies.  You'd quickly bleed them dry if they were on a "budget", then you'd go bankrupt.  In real life you wouldn't have a customer who buys 10  tv's, but you potentially COULD sell a tv's to 10 customers in day.  That's the way I see it.  Your townies represent a large customer base.

But let's say you didn't want that, all you would have to do is make all your townies playable characters.  Then you could pretend your live in a small town.  You have to restrict yourself to mostly service type business to be realistic and you'd have to play all your characters in turn (otherwise they would become broke), but that could be fun in itself.

[momtogirls]

no badges or skills.  Angry But that's a whle 'nother issue I suppose.

what about using the badge juicer and a die to assign badges.  It would take some time, obviously...but it would be random.  a 4 sided die would actually work well.  1-gold; 2-silver; 3-bronze and 4-no badge.  I have no idea on how to make cas sims into townies.  I don't know how to use SimPe or anything like that, but if I DID, that's how I would randomize talent badges.