Want to buy that crafted item instead of making it?

[cyperangel]

Yeah, but what Sleepycat meant, was that it is impossible for a sim to visit another sims homebusiness. It has to be on a commercial lot, which kind of defeats the purpose of having home businesses then.

And if you have a home business, your only hope is that the sim youw ant to have the item actually shows up, and furthermore wants to buy said item. Not really good odds on that one...

[Ancient Sim]

I'm still unsure about these "evil toys".  Do they turn evil, or are they evil to start with?  I've seen no option on the toy-making station thingy to make them.  Are they the result of someone with no toy-making skill crafting the toys?  I don't want to have to download this collection to find out, so I need to know how to get them legitimately.  

I'd already worked out the taking your Sims to shop angle.  I find this a much better way of playing actually, because then the shop-owners and staff actually WORK and do it properly.  What I was wondering was, does the shop grow as a result of this?  In other words, if I sent one of my Sims and got them to buy loads of stuff, would it show-up in the cash flow of the shop and would the owner also get the increased loyalty?  If so, it sounds the easiest way to get a business up several notches.  I managed to get the Delarosa one up a level yesterday (or rather, the teen she employed to do sales did), but I also made one of Malcolm Landgraab's go down.  

[J. M. Pescado]

I'm still unsure about these "evil toys".  Do they turn evil, or are they evil to start with?  I've seen no option on the toy-making station thingy to make them.  Are they the result of someone with no toy-making skill crafting the toys?  I don't want to have to download this collection to find out, so I need to know how to get them legitimately.

They're the results of a random crafting failure for "low skills", but you can't even make them at all unless you have the right skills.

And frankly, I can't see why you can't craft evil toys. I mean, to make a work of true evil requires far more skill than to make a mere NORMAL thing. Pssh.

Just you wait. I'll get that Evil Toymaking Hack, oh yes.

[miramis]

Cyperangel: Yeah, I realised that after first posting and edited it at the bottom when the lightbulb went on.  

Evil Toys:
They are evil to start Ancient.  I've had them even with a gold level badge, they are possibly affected by mood, but this one sim was in a great mood (Snapdragons ) and still made some evil jack in the boxes.  So I'm not really sure what affects whether an item comes out good or evil.

I don't know about the shop growing as a result of visiting it, the shop I visited was already lvl 10.  I should have checked whether the money changed hands though.

[Batelle]

Does the squid water thingy actually cause harm?  I had Gilbert Jacquet try it out, thinking it was going to pop up his butt while he jumped over it or grab his ankle and spray water in his face until he drowned.  Instead it just made a few puddles. 

[Gus Smedstad]

I just dislike people implying I'm a cheater and trying to make me feel guilty because I play differently then they do. 

I don't think it's guilt tripping, I think it's just incomprehension.  Those of us who studiously avoid cheats or hacks that feel like cheats do so because these things make our games less fun.  When people do stuff like remove all the "friends" requirements from jobs or something like that, I can't help but think, "why are you deliberately making your game less fun?"  No moral judgement intended, just an inability to understand what parts of the game you enjoy.

 - Gus

[Motoki]

Sleepycat: To clarify, I don't necessarily think you are a cheater or even care if you are. Again, it's really my issue. For me mentally if I know there's an easy way to do something, it cheapens the work it takes to earn it the normal way. I know it's silly, it's a mental thing and it's all in my head, but it's how I feel.

I don't care if other people use, cheat codes, aspiration rewards, collections etc. I don't have a problem with what other people do in their game, I just wish I didn't know about them.

I know people will say don't use them but I still know they are there and even if I never use them, in the back of my mind just knowing that I can makes a difference on how I feel and even how I play.

For example, recently I played Fable and discovered your character ages with the more levels you increase in the various skills. I didn't want to run around an old fart but wanted to maxmize all my skills so I thought 'Ha! There's got to be an age cheat.' I looked around and there wasn't. No code, no hack. Nada. I then had to be much more careful about how I played and more selective about which skills I chose and the game ended up being more fun for me that way.

For some people fun is hitting motherlode a bunch of times and designing a great big house and there is nothing wrong with that! Whatever works for you and makes things fun is fine, it's your game. This is just totally my issue, not anyone else's.

[simmiecal]

I just dislike people implying I'm a cheater and trying to make me feel guilty because I play differently then they do. 

I don't think it's guilt tripping, I think it's just incomprehension. 

I actually play two different ways.
1. - As few hacks / cheats used as possible. While not following the legacy challenge exactly, I follow the spirit of it. No20khandouts used and no money cheats. If a sim dies, no pleading with the reaper, no resurrection. Try only to influence sim actions based on what is showing in their want slots or based on their lifetime aspiration.

2. Storytelling, or if you prefer, the "big" dollhouse. If their is an overall storyline I'm playing out, I have no problem using hacks/cheats to move a relationship along, force introductions instead of waiting for two sims to "bump" into each other. I use money cheats up the wazoo - not to make things easier, but to decorate the lot in a manner that fits the storyline. (You know how expensive it can be to properly decorate a run-down, trashy trailer?  ) I also like doing sim movies and for those, you really have to cheat to force the sims to act a certain way for a particular shot.

Usually when a new expansion comes out, I have one or two families that I cheat to get all the new goodies, so I can play with them - see what they do and the new animations that come with it. I made one zombie - to see what it did - and didn't like it because it was too unreal for my "stories", haven't had an alien in game (well except the one time that I cheated an alien pregnancy just to see the birth animation) and was soooo sorry that I let vampires loose in my favorite hood (that I had spent forever to build and trashed it because once vampires are loose, you can't get rid of them).

I guess the big difference I see is that some people "play" the sims like a game where "cheating" makes things too easy for their enjoyment. I think for others, the sims is a storytelling tool so it's not "cheating" since there is no "win" scenerio and anything that helps you move the story along is used -whether it's "gameplay" the way the game was originally designed or a hack or testingcheats.

[Gus Smedstad]

I guess the big difference I see is that some people "play" the sims like a game where "cheating" makes things too easy for their enjoyment. I think for others, the sims is a storytelling tool so it's not "cheating" since there is no "win" scenerio and anything that helps you move the story along is used -whether it's "gameplay" the way the game was originally designed or a hack or testingcheats.

There are things in between, too.  I'm very much a gamer, but sometimes when I'm playing, I'm doing improv theater.  I'll set up non-optimal situations just to see what will happen, or to follow what the sim "wants" to do, even though I know at heart it's just a random number generator.

 - Gus

[Motoki]

See and that's the thing, for me there really isn't a story. Oh I know, it's whatever you make it up to be, but I get tired of making up stories in my head, I know the story and the outcome already so where's the fun (for me anyhow). I'm used to playing roleplaying games where there is an actual story layed out by the game that you can interact with and discover. When I very first got this game I thought 'Wow, there's stories in the neighborhood' but you can't do anything with them, it's just background.

I think other people would have liked there to be real stories in the game that are layed out and can be interacted with and resolved. I think that's why people were so interested in the whole Bella thing. People were looking for a story that wasn't there, or wasn't able to be resolved at least.

What I really wish is that there was a tool available so that we the users could set up scenarios that could be played, and looked into and eventually resolved and then upload them for each other so we could all play stories where we don't know the outcome and that there's an element of surprise in.

I've actually read that the PSP Sims2 has some quests and a story to be played and interacted with and that sounds interesting to me. As much as I dislike portables and those tiny screens I might give it a try at some point if I ever get the darned thing (the PSP that is).

[Motoki]

There are things in between, too.  I'm very much a gamer, but sometimes when I'm playing, I'm doing improv theater.  I'll set up non-optimal situations just to see what will happen, or to follow what the sim "wants" to do, even though I know at heart it's just a random number generator.

I do follow their wants and I do let them do their own thing or let random things happen. If someone gets bitten by a vampire, then so be it. If someone has a want to drink the headmaster, go ahead, they get a want to bring him back as a zombie, sure (except he gets put right back into the npc pool, don't want that thing in my house lol).

BUT I also make my sims work for what they want, they don't get easy ways out. Maybe the occasional gold digging hoochie gets to marry a rich sim, but for the most part I make them work their butts off.

[idtaminger]

Actually they aren't that bad, they seem to have a limited area they work in, so if they are in an area like a hallway, it's more of an occasional boost. I don't use a lot of aspiration rewards (smart milk, thinking cap, and elixer, that's it) and I don't use buyable collections or whatnot either, but I think of these as "aromatherapy" and put them near my shoppers and employees.

Hey, aromatherapy and the like works in real life, you know. Like those perfume stores - bath & body works, etc. - how many shoppers are lured in by the smell alone! I don't like their stuff - too sticky and non-absorbant for my tastes, but they do smell great, and occasionally I'll wander the store just to sample the fragrances. And of course, there's the myriad subliminal stuff that gets you to buy - great packaging/displays, ambiance, hot pple pushing the products. None of these things are taken into account in the game, so if you just think of snapdragons as a substitute for these effects, it's really not that far removed from real life.

I understand the sentiment, since I'm very annoyed that things like Restocking aren't actually required.  If the game includes restocking, I want it to force me to do restocking, without allowing a method that bypasses it entirely.

I don't get this restocking thing. It's not like restocking by employee makes the game SO much harder. Is it really that big of a deal?

[Maria]

Hi Sleepycat, I don't care how anyone else plays their game*.  I just don't like to make things too easy for my sims, because that makes the game boring for me.  My favorite times are when a family is just starting out and has to struggle.  I was actually hoping OFB would have stuff for my sims to waste their money on.  Oh well, maybe the upcoming Glamour expansion will have expensive but fleeting stuff, so the offspring of my wealthiest sims can realistically dissipate their fortunes.

*except for the hack where the couple always takes the man's surname, that makes me sad, but it's still none of my business.

[Gus Smedstad]

I don't get this restocking thing. It's not like restocking by employee makes the game SO much harder. Is it really that big of a deal?

Since it means one less employee in a busy shop, that's $50-$100 / hour right here, $400-$800 a day.  So yes, it's a big deal.

 - Gus

[cabelle]

The thing I like best about Sims is that it's so open ended. It can be played in a variety of ways to cover all sorts of interests; from those who like to build the homes, those who like making stories and those who like setting themselves certain goals and so on. There's virtually no wrong way to play, just a whole bunch of different ways to play.  

[Sagana]

What I really wish is that there was a tool available so that we the users could set up scenarios that could be played, and looked into and eventually resolved and then upload them for each other so we could all play stories where we don't know the outcome and that there's an element of surprise in.

I really don't see any reason why we couldn't set something like this up. Without trading characters and neighborhoods and all... It's really no different than GMing (well) any other RPG. The players agree to make things that fit within the storyline the GM sets up and the GM doesn't overly micromanage and insist on certain actions and conclusions so the PCs get to tell their own part. If there was interest, I'd be happy to give it a shot.

You shouldn't know how your story is going to end in advance ;) Even authors often don't know where something is going until the characters tell them and sims do have minds of their own :)

What I have trouble understanding isn't the making it difficult for yourself part - I do that too. There are lots of aspiration rewards I've never touched. Too easy. I was thrilled to discover JMs no20k. It's one of my favorite hacks. I like the stuff that makes it harder. But I don't understand the... attraction to getting (often it seems as quickly as possible) to the "best" of everything. How fast can I max out the selling options and have the store with the most money. That kind of thing. I don't even want the most money - I have too much already. I want my money to go away :) Unless it's for story-telling purposes.

[PlayLives]

What's this restocking business? (i don't get it)

[Motoki]

sagana: I thought we tried the whole neighborhood rules thing and it didn't work out. Something about too many cooks. I'd rather that one person can set up a module, put it up for download and be done with it then everyone else can enjoy or pass on it. But we don't really have the tools to do something like that.

[Batelle]

What's this restocking business? (i don't get it)

When running a business, one of the objectives is to keep your shelves well stocked to help maintain customer loyalty.  You can have an employee stock or you can go into buy mode and do it yourself.  The first way, if you are paying an employee to be the stockperson, you lose whatever money you pay that sim.  The second way, it's at no penalty to you (unless, of course, you stock from the catalogue when you otherwise would pay wholesale).

I stock in buy/inventory mode when I've switched styles on an item at the craft table.  For some reason, my sims can't place, say, a red rose in a black vase in a spot reserved for a white rose in a green vase.  Instead of just crafting the same colour combinations, I manually stock.  This is, of course, the least of all my cheating.  I don't have as much time to spend on the game, so in order to make any headway I use as many time-saving devices as possible (actually, mostly mood enhancers).

[dusty]

What's this restocking business? (i don't get it)

I stock in buy/inventory mode when I've switched styles on an item at the craft table.  For some reason, my sims can't place, say, a red rose in a black vase in a spot reserved for a white rose in a green vase. 

Can't you? My sim's home flower shop does this successfully all the time - ie out of daisies, replace with more daisies of any colour, not necessarily the same as the ones that were just bought. It is a family member sim that I control doing the restocking, not an employee - don't know if that would make a difference.

[Sandilou]

I just dislike people implying I'm a cheater and trying to make me feel guilty because I play differently then they do.

 
Sleepycat, you've remarked in the past that we both have similar playing styles and I agree with you.  I will be downloading this collection, just in case I ever need it. 

Now that I have started all over again - and you've no idea just what that means unless you can fathom how my pc went from 67GB to 22GB of used space - I am only downloading items that affect the game.  No custom content that just looks pretty.  If I want that then I have to go do some real life shopping!

I love the meandering nature of the game.  It makes me smile when JM says that players are basically idiots if their Sims haven't maxed all skills before entering Uni.  My sims only pick up skills because of hacks like Inge's skill-while-reading and doing homework, Moniques multi-skilled bookcase and of course, her computer, which allows Sims to earn money and develop skills by writing articles.  The challenge, if any, for me is just for the Sims to fulfill their wants and live happily.  Just like in real life, I don't think being well read or wealthy is the be all and end all. 

I had wanted to play the game as designed by Maxis, just to see what OFB would be like.  Making friends without JM's autosoc and phonehack is considerably harder.  Do people consider those cheats? Plus there's loads of hacks here designed to get rid of the 'nuisance' value added to the game like kicky bag, rock-paper-scissors, pillow fighting etc, which if you didn't use them, would add more challenge to your Sims completing commands or tasks successfully.  The poor pixelated fools have the concentration skills of a toddler - ["Oh - so pretty and shiny!"] .  If you kill the random spontaneity in the game, then you end up with the programmed robot Sims that JM admires and ZZ abhors!

Motoki, Saint Simmiecal has made Matyville Lite which has the background stories that you've described.  I have just downloaded it and will be installing it over the weekend.  Who knows, I might (although I doubt it because of Inteen) even be able to reinstall my old Matyville citizens so that I can write another issue of The Matyville Tabloid.

[Paperbladder]

I won't be downloading that collection, just because I like forcing sims to craft items.  Heck, I'm not a noncheater in some people's eyes...  I use the Elixer of Life to keep my sims at the adult stage because I frankly don't like playing generations.  I kill townies with the "deleteallcharacters" cheat and use notownieregen.  I use those because I just plain hate maxian townies, and I'd rather make my own.  That's just how I play the game, though I might play generations eventually.

Kicking a $12 flamingo shouldn't be more fun than the best TV.  You shouldn't need a Macro to make expresso actually useful.  You shouldn't need to deal with Sim ADHD problems during repairing something just because they have a crap mood.  Old Ladies shouldn't be punching each other's shoulders.  Kicky-bags shouldn't get stuck, lots shouldn't screw up, and people shouldn't want to aspire to have 10 kids.  Making the Sims robotic helps stop some of these annoyances that just shouldn't happen.

I don't know what the TS2 people are on, but even the people that made TS1 didn't screw up this bad.

[idtaminger]

I don't know what the TS2 people are on, but even the people that made TS1 didn't screw up this bad.

You know, I bought the first Sims the week or so it came out, and I played all the way to Making Magic with no more than the Maxis patches on the official site. I don't know if I'm just pickier w/ TS2, but w/ half the annoyances we have w/ this game, I think I would've stopped playing a long time ago if it weren't for hack creators. In fact, at last count, I had 257 files in my hack folder, and while some of those are multipart, that still makes for a heck of a lot of hacks.

[Sleepycat]

I just like to play and have my sims do what I want them to do but with some free will also. I find most of the "needs" to be unrealistic and dislike how long it takes them to take a piss (or whatever) so I use InSIM to make them hungry when I want them to be hungry etc... Sometimes I don't max their motives for alittle while and play "normally" but then I decide I want them to do something and their needs get in the way so I max them back up *laughs*

Part of the way I play is because of the long term illness I have to live with. I'm frankly just to damn tired all the time to be bothered worring about their "needs"  I like to have them make friends, go on dates, go shopping and do all sorts of things without having them pass out or die of hunger    heh, all stuff I can't really do myself anymore

Although I use to max out all the skills on my sims (using InSIM) I quit doing that when Uni came out because it was boring, now I usually give them a certain amount of skills according to how I plan to play them ( are they stupid? are they smart? good at cleaning? good cook? etc... ) and anymore then that they have to gain by skilling if there is a reason for them to. I don't want all my sims to be rich and smart and live in fancy houses or be top in their careers or now - have a succesfull business. I keep my sims busy "living their lives" and I rarely fast forward unless I have everyone in the household skilling.

I have played without hacks and had fun but I have more fun because of hacks. I'm also really picky about what hacks I use, most just stop/fix annoying behavior (I really hate "punch you punch me") or correct bugs or make the game more realistic (ie; no censor blur, risky woohoo, crammys cock & nudist hacks)


What I don't understand is when someone says they think hacks like InSIM are "too cheaty" yet they use boolprop and/or simpe to do everything InSIM does and more. whats the freakin difference? there is none in my eyes *sticks out her tongue*

*is feeling really rotten today and is touchy*


edit - 183 hacks here, a few are muilti part   

[Moonshires]

I just dislike people implying I'm a cheater and trying to make me feel guilty because I play differently then they do. 

I don't think it's guilt tripping, I think it's just incomprehension.  Those of us who studiously avoid cheats or hacks that feel like cheats do so because these things make our games less fun.  When people do stuff like remove all the "friends" requirements from jobs or something like that, I can't help but think, "why are you deliberately making your game less fun?"  No moral judgement intended, just an inability to understand what parts of the game you enjoy.

 - Gus

I just had to comment on this one -

I could never for the life of me (even with TS1) see why friends were required to increase your job level.  Since when did you need friends, who had absolutely no actual connection to your occupation, to advance?  Also, if I purposely made an extremely shy, and maybe not-so-nice sim, because of a (in my opinion) stupid requirement to advance in jobs, my sims would be stuck at L3 pretty much for ever.  I'm failing to see where the fun is in that.

Oh and yes, I use the 'no friends for jobs' hacks.  It just makes no sense for me to -have- to make my mad scientist sim have a ton of friends.  I mean, look at Dr. Frankenstien...