Myths, Urban Legends, And Apocrypha Of TS2 Explored And Exploded

[Andygal]

yeah as the saying goes "If it isn't documented it didn't happen"

[dizzy]

Nobody is questioning whether it happened. What they are questioning is WHAT precisely happened and why.

You can't just assume that because you observed two events that appear to happen together that the one MUST lead to the other. That is a fallacy. There may be several other things that also occurred which had more or less affect on the outcome which you did not observe. There may be little or no connection at all. In fact, the order in which you observe these things occur may not even be relevant.

To prove cause and effect, you have to understand the source of the effect. That requires understanding exactly what you are looking at, and how to relate that understanding to what you are observing.

[Kyna]

What do ypu mean...test? I didnt make a test i just noticed that twins with the same personalities have  learned skills differently cuz one grew uo in platinum

If that happened in my game, the first thing I'd do is check whether both twins still had their smart milk 'stuck'.  Chances are that one of your twins lost the smart milk stuckage along the way and therefore learned at a much slower rate.

My point is that there are other situations that can cause different learning rates for twins in the game - I wouldn't assume it was the platinum effect without further testing.

[Hook]

What do ypu mean...test? I didnt make a test i just noticed that twins with the same personalities have  learned skills differently cuz one grew uo in platinum

Way back shortly after Sims 2 first came out and no one knew where the fast learning skill came from, I posted on the Maxis BBS that it might be related to toddlers being read to by their parents.  I did NOT say that reading to toddlers caused the fast learning skill.  I too have had twins grow to children where one had the fast learning skill and the other didn't.

One observation does not make something fact.  Someone had their pregnant Sim eat cookies and then had twins, and concluded that eating cookies was what caused twins.  And the rumors started flying.  As far as I know, there are *still* people on the Maxis BBS who believe that eating cookies causes twins.

You will notice that I did not say you were full of shit wrong.  I simply asked you to post your test conditions  so we could try to duplicate your results.  For all I know, growing up in platinum might have some effect... or at least growing up not-platinum might kill the fast learning skill.

Now, about testing.  Has it occurred to anyone that some of us will run the same scenario as many as 50 times trying to learn what affects the outcome of some particular action?  I've actually done that with the fast learning skill.  I've also done it with the headmaster scenario.  Once you find something you think causes something, then you have to try to disprove yourself.  I was always able to get Sim children with the fast learning skill once I'd discovered it was related to smart milk, but I was never able to get rid of the fast learning skill once a Sim toddler had it.  I even bathed a toddler recently hoping to get rid of the fast learning skill, as Pescado states that bathing a toddler can make it go away.  The Sim kid still had fast learning after being bathed, but that was only one trial and isn't conclusive.

So when I say "test" I mean TEST, dammit!  Noticing something happening once, then posting as if this were conslusive proof just doesn't cut it.  Sorry.

Hook

[veilchen]

Extensive testing is the only true way of finding cause and effect. Many serious sim-players, such as Hook, Posie, TreyNutz, etc. have spend a lot of time testing things through to try to at least eliminate random occurances. Hook is absolutely right, posting statements such as this one as fact is not something that will do anyone any good.
I've had one toddler grow up in gold, and one in green; both still had the faster learning skill, and using the eye in the sky, I found out that both still had their smart milk stuck. Platinum might have an effect, but one observation does not a research make.

[dizzy]

I've had one toddler grow up in gold, and one in green; both still had the faster learning skill, and using the eye in the sky, I found out that both still had their smart milk stuck. Platinum might have an effect, but one observation does not a research make.

Actually, the scientific method for proof demands consistently non-negative results. Your observation there, for example, conclusively proves beyond doubt that the platinum mood does *not* have an effect on the "sticky" smart milk. Proving that something *does* have an effect, however, requires a lot of careful study.

[FroggySim]

I wouldn´t think that growing up in platinum mood *always* results in a smarter kid, as I´ve just grown up triplets in platinum mood and only two of them have the smart milk stuck.
Therefore they do learn faster than their little brother (poor thing...). I tried with their first cooking point as cooking is not related to any personality, and the two kids with the stuck milk finished earlier.
(As for the amount of smart milk: each toddler got 4 bottles...).
Well, if platinum really had been what caused it, they should all be smart.

[veilchen]

Actually, the scientific method for proof demands consistently non-negative results. Your observation there, for example, conclusively proves beyond doubt that the platinum mood does *not* have an effect on the "sticky" smart milk. Proving that something *does* have an effect, however, requires a lot of careful study.

Well, being in the sciences too, I am aware that scientific research also demands reproducible results with the same method, so as far as platinum mood and smart sims are concerned, you are correct.

Lovely green sandwich, by the way dizzy2

[KookieDoe]

Im sorry but my computer is broken...well  the one that can play the sims, and so i cant test it.  But this is what I ment

Growing up in Platunim, Gold, Green, or Red might affect the learning skill IF the smart milk is not stuck.  Try testing it, but withought feeding the toddler smartmilk.

[RainbowTigress]

Im sorry but my computer is broken...well  the one that can play the sims, and so i cant test it.  But this is what I ment

Growing up in Platunim, Gold, Green, or Red might affect the learning skill IF the smart milk is not stuck.  Try testing it, but withought feeding the toddler smartmilk.

Nope, growing up Platinum has no effect on learning skill.  I have had MANY toddlers grow up platinum (this isn't hard to do) and if they've never received smart milk, they will not learn any faster than normal.  The only thing that causes them to learn at accelerated speeds is the "stuck smart milk" as described by Pescado.  That's because this is a "bug" and not really intended to happen.  You can see this when using the baby controller and clicking on "Test IQ."  A child with a stuck smark milk attribute will have an IQ of 300 while a normal child will have a base IQ of 100.  This has consistently been proven over and over in my game.  The toddler must transition with their IQ still at 300 because once they turn into a child, you lose the ability to feed smart milk and can never get it back.  I haven't tested it much in Nightlife, but Maxoid Tom said the stuck smart milk bug was supposed to be fixed.  I haven't had a chance to test this out, but I'm going to be having a new batch of toddlers soon to check it out.

[Hook]

The stuck smart milk glitch, or fast learning skill, doesn't appear to have been fixed in Nightlife's patch.  I recently transitioned a toddler and the child had an IQ of 300.  I even bathed the toddler to see if it would unstick the smart milk... it didn't.

Only one trial so I don't know if it'll be true for everyone. 

Someone once claimed that learning all three toddler skills was what caused the fast learning skill.  So I tested it.  I beat it to death, actually.  In the end, the only thing I could claim for certain was that a child who did not get smart milk as a toddler would not have the fast learning skill.

Hook

[Andygal]

I have a child that I believe has stuck smart milk post NL patch (I think). I don't have the baby controller or whatever you use to check (I had understood it was not NL compatiable)

[RainbowTigress]

I have a child that I believe has stuck smart milk post NL patch (I think). I don't have the baby controller or whatever you use to check (I had understood it was not NL compatiable)

Well that's what I thought and then I asked some others here who had been using it, and they said it worked fine other than not being able to directly command older sims to hold the child.  You can always instruct them to put them in the crib to get them to pick them up.  So I started using the baby controller and I haven't had any problems but I am sure a lot more sane with it in my game. 

I believe the baby controller is the only object that will show a sim's "IQ."  I tried to get JM to put this option into the lot debugger so I wouldn't have to keep the "Eye" around after the toddlers grew up, but he didn't do it. 

[veilchen]

Right and right Rainbow ;D

In my game the eye in the sky works as well, except for the hold command. I can't rotate it though, but since I didn't have the time to stick around too long lately, so I don't know whether that's been fixed. Maybe I should download again and try.

[RainbowTigress]

Right and right Rainbow

In my game the eye in the sky works as well, except for the hold command. I can't rotate it though, but since I didn't have the time to stick around too long lately, so I don't know whether that's been fixed. Maybe I should download again and try.

I don't think it has.  I checked out the dates and they are still the same.  But not being able to rotate it doesn't really bother me since it doesn't affect anything anyway.

[veilchen]

I whole-heartedly agree Rainbow. The no rotate problem is really no problem. I just have to place the cribs in the right places. I rather put up with a few (temporary, right JM?) problems than not have 'the eye in the sky'

[Process Denied]

There is a pregnancy modifier token that does affect twin chances, but it is not a factor that you can influence: Food does NOT affect the pregnancy modifier token, it simply appears on your sim for unknown reasons, possibly randomly, or in connection with being a twin. In any case, it is not an effect that you can influence through any specific known action.

  That is very interesting--I had to go through SimPE to check everyone's memory of the Tricou's death and some NPC's and townies that haven't even been activated yet had a pregnancy modifier and some were male.  That means that they are more inclined to have twins??  Any thing else??  I remember seeing that in an old game in one of my sims that had 3 sets of twins(made it easier to have her 10 babies).  Can you delete that with any safety or add it???

[akatonbo]

Hm, before I got here I had already seen every "THIS WILL MAKE YOUR SIMZ HAVE TWINS!!!11!!!ONE" rumor debunked except one, which was being treated as genuine -- that Geminis, or perhaps only a couple who were both Geminis, had a higher chance of having twins. Any indication that this is even a tiny factor (are they more likely to have the token?), or should I report that one back as false too? I'll be posting a link to this thread regardless.

[J. M. Pescado]

Sorry, the Gemini this is similarly bogus.

[J. M. Pescado]

Cheesecake Myth similarly appears bogus. Cheesecakes or lack thereof appear to have no effect on the twin chances. Sorry.

[Ellatrue]

man, maxis sucks. First they say cookies, then cheesecake. I think they just want everyone to get fat sims.

[Gus Smedstad]

As long as you're updating this, you might as well update the zodiac "compatibility" entry which changed with Nightlife.

 - Gus

[RainbowTigress]

Well, he does say, "TS2U v1.0." and "This may or may not change in a future expansion pack."

Although now that OFB is out, he could update to mention that it did indeed change with NL.  But we all know that he is such a busy, busy man.

[akatonbo]

Here's a question -- when PRECISELY is it determined whether a particular pregnancy will result in twins, and has that timing changed in natural twin pregnancies in OFB?

(The sad thing is, I don't even care much myself -- if I wanted twins that badly I'd just cheat -- but in another forum, which I originally joined to learn more about the game, I am now one of the better-informed people there, and there's a lot of misinformation about twins that I'm trying to correct.)

[RainbowTigress]

Twins are decided at conception, although gender isn't.  If you save your game before the screen saying a new baby is on the way, then you can reload as many times as you want to get a different gender.  But the number of babies is stored in the pregnancy token, so if you are having twins, you'll get twins every time you reload.

According to JM's research stated above, the chance of twins is not changed in OFB.

Edit:  Fixed wrong word choice.