Neighborhood Templates with Playables?

[sloppyhousewife]

Is there a way to make a NH template with playables? I tried to make one with several sims in the sim bin, but after creating a new game, the bin was empty. Any ideas?

[Tarlia]

A regular neighbourhood or a subhood?

What did you do the first time?

To make a "template" of a regular 'hood, all you need to do is make your neighbourhood as you want it, and then take a copy of the whole neighbourhood folder and put it somewhere safe. If you want to start it over, delete the existing folder in your Neighborhood folder and copy over the backup folder. Not sure how it's possible to get that wrong.

For a subhood, see this tutorial: http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=420196

[Mootilda]

I had no problem creating a base game neighborhood template with sims in the sim bin.  Just create the neighborhood and move it to:
C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\The Sims 2\TSData\Res\UserData\Neighborhoods

If the neighborhood requires EPs, then put it in the TSData\Res\UserData\Neighborhoods subfolder under the Program Files folder for the latest EP.

If this is what you tried and it didn't work, you may need to ensure that the sim families are initialized before turning the neighborhood into a template.

Try this:
- Create an empty lot.
For each sim-bin family in turn:
 - Move the family into the empty lot.
 - Enter the lot and save.  This should initialize the family.
 - Return to the neighborhood view and move the family back into the sim bin.
When you've got everyone initialized:
- Remove the empty lot.

[Tarlia]

All the game does is copy the whole folder over, though, which is exactly the same as copying it over yourself from a different location. As long as the neighbourhood works correctly to begin with and the whole folder is copied correctly, with all its contents, it should work either way.

But yeah, we're going to need more information about what exactly you're trying to do, and how you're trying to do it.

[Mootilda]

All the game does is copy the whole folder over, though, which is exactly the same as copying it over yourself from a different location. As long as the neighbourhood works correctly to begin with and the whole folder is copied correctly, with all its contents, it should work either way.

Not exactly.  When you copy the folder yourself, nothing is changed inside the folder.  When you use the standard in-game processing, it will adjust the IDNO record to resolve any conflicts with other neighborhoods.  That's how EA is able to ship two neighborhoods which conflict with each other, such as Pleasantview and Desiderata Valley.  The standard in-game processing also attaches all stealth subhoods.

sloppyhousewife, along with standard neighborhoods and subhoods, there is also the possibility of creating stealth subhoods.  Sim-bin sims in a standard neighborhood exist only in that neighborhood.  Sim-bin sims in a subhood are added to a neighborhood when you attach the subhood to it.  Sim-bin sims in a stealth subhood are added to every neighborhood.  As Tarlia explained, we really need more information about what you are trying to accomplish, as well as the method that you are using.

[sloppyhousewife]

You're right, I could have been more specific. What I wanted to do was to turn townies into playables and make a template out of that (because I make them playable anyway, and it gets pretty dull when you have to do this for every single new neighborhood). I should add that my base template only has the above mentioned (base game) townies, no NPCs or EAxis bin sims.

I made a CAS sim in order to move them in, created a lot, moved the first in, kicked the CAS sim out and deleted him (Deleted 2). I moved the second in, moved the first one out (sim bin), moved the third in, the second out etc. etc. until all 16 were in the sim bin.

The thus generated N001 folder went to TSData\Res\UserData\Neighborhoods (without the stealth 'hoods).

After reading your reply, Mootilda, I initialized them using your empty-lot-method. Still, no sims in the sim bin. According to the My Documents/EA Games folder, this 'hood has no sims at all except for the paper boy and the driver (those were generated during the move-in-move-out progress).

To make a "template" of a regular 'hood, all you need to do is make your neighbourhood as you want it, and then take a copy of the whole neighbourhood folder and put it somewhere safe. If you want to start it over, delete the existing folder in your Neighborhood folder and copy over the backup folder. Not sure how it's possible to get that wrong.

I used this method before finding out about templates, but it has several disadvantages, like not being able to choose a terrain etc.

[Tarlia]

Oh, I see. Instead of the regular Goopy & Company townies, you want playables copied over to every new neighbourhood.

I don't think you can do that with the regular N001 template. The game, by default, only copies over townies and NPCs. Otherwise, you'd also get the Pleasantview playables in every new 'hood in an unmodded game.

That's what the stealth hoods are for. Those DO copy over playables to every 'hood. I'm not quite sure how to go about making one (or safely editing one), though I could most likely find out, but I'm sure Mootilda knows?

Also, @Mootilda: Good point, I didn't think of the IDNOs... Now I want to test putting in any combination of N001/G001/F001/E001 manually. I wonder if the game will still autocorrect it at startup? The stealth hoods aren't generated before you load the neighbourhood for the first time ingame, though, so that's not related to how the 'hood is copied.

[sloppyhousewife]

Oh, I see. Instead of the regular Goopy & Company townies, you want playables copied over to every new neighbourhood.

I don't think you can do that with the regular N001 template. The game, by default, only copies over townies and NPCs. Otherwise, you'd also get the Pleasantview playables in every new 'hood in an unmodded game.

That's what the stealth hoods are for. Those DO copy over playables to every 'hood. I'm not quite sure how to go about making one (or safely editing one), though I could most likely find out, but I'm sure Mootilda knows?

Very good point - I never thought of the PV bin sims and them not appearing in new NHs. I don't think it's that difficult to manipulate stealth 'hoods (although I might be wrong), but it won't take too long to find out. Or to repair the damage in case I screw it up. Thanks for the hint!

[Mootilda]

After reading your reply, Mootilda, I initialized them using your empty-lot-method. Still, no sims in the sim bin. According to the My Documents/EA Games folder, this 'hood has no sims at all except for the paper boy and the driver (those were generated during the move-in-move-out progress).

Your procedure would have already initialized them, so my technique wouldn't help.

To make a "template" of a regular 'hood, all you need to do is make your neighbourhood as you want it, and then take a copy of the whole neighbourhood folder and put it somewhere safe.

I used this method before finding out about templates, but it has several disadvantages, like not being able to choose a terrain etc.

Exactly how are you trying to use the neighborhood template?  Are you deleting the Neighborhoods subfolder for your save game and allowing the game to regenerate all of the neighborhoods?  Or, are you creating a brand new neighborhood from a terrain?  I assumed the former and sim-bin sims work in that situation.  However, if you are using the latter technique, sim-bin sims will not work; you will definitely want a stealth subhood for that to work.

Here's my best guess as to how to create a stealth neighborhood (note that this isn't tested at all):
1) Create your neighborhood
2) Extract the IDNO record from an existing stealth neighborhood and replace your IDNO with that one.
3) Modify the UID and (parent) name in the IDNO.  The UID should be unique and the (parent) name should match your neighborhood folder name.
4) Move your neighborhood into C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\The Sims 2 <EP>\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate for any EP from Pets on.

That's what the stealth hoods are for. Those DO copy over playables to every 'hood. I'm not quite sure how to go about making one (or safely editing one), though I could most likely find out, but I'm sure Mootilda knows?

Thanks for the confidence.  However, I'd have to do some research to figure out how to (correctly) make a stealth neighborhood.  I've only made them accidentally, because of the SimPE IDNO bug.

Also, @Mootilda: Good point, I didn't think of the IDNOs... Now I want to test putting in any combination of N001/G001/F001/E001 manually. I wonder if the game will still autocorrect it at startup? The stealth hoods aren't generated before you load the neighbourhood for the first time ingame, though, so that's not related to how the 'hood is copied.

Good to know about the stealth subhoods.  I tend to avoid them like the plague, so I'm not surprised that I was wrong about that.  I've updated my post.

I'm not sure whether it happens for all EPs, but I've seen a lot of people who have "lost" neighborhoods that they restored from backup.  This happened because the IDNO was not changed when they copied the neighborhood in, and it conflicted with an existing neighborhood.  When I had them remove the conflicting neighborhoods, their restored neighborhood "magically" appeared again:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=180053

The solution to this problem is to make the IDNO unique.  I never thought about using the in-game process to fix the problem, but I know that it works because of the conflict between the EA shipped neighborhoods.  Unfortunately, that conflict is why you lose the neighborhood story on the base game neighborhoods when you have the later EPs.  The game decides to let the neighborhoods associated with the later EPs "win" the IDNO, since they come earlier in the alphabet (E001, F001, G001).  However, the early neighborhood stories (such as N001) rely on the IDNO.  I've solved this on my own machine by changing the IDNO for the later EP neighborhoods, so that the base game hoods retain their IDNOs when a new save game is generated.

[Tarlia]

I'm not sure whether it happens for all EPs, but I've seen a lot of people who have "lost" neighborhoods that they restored from backup.  This happened because the IDNO was not changed when they copied the neighborhood in, and it conflicted with an existing neighborhood.  When I had them remove the conflicting neighborhoods, their restored neighborhood "magically" appeared again:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=180053

The solution to this problem is to make the IDNO unique.  I never thought about using the in-game process to fix the problem, but I know that it works because of the conflict between the EA shipped neighborhoods.  Unfortunately, that conflict is why you lose the neighborhood story on the base game neighborhoods when you have the later EPs.  The game decides to let the neighborhoods associated with the later EPs "win" the IDNO, since they come earlier in the alphabet (E001, F001, G001).  However, the early neighborhood stories (such as N001) rely on the IDNO.  I've solved this on my own machine by changing the IDNO for the later EP neighborhoods, so that the base game hoods retain their IDNOs when a new save game is generated.

Thanks for this info. I'll add it to my list of things to fix before I release my new clean premade 'hoods, so people don't end up putting in two conflicting ones.

[sloppyhousewife]

Exactly how are you trying to use the neighborhood template?  Are you deleting the Neighborhoods subfolder for your save game and allowing the game to regenerate all of the neighborhoods?  Or, are you creating a brand new neighborhood from a terrain?  I assumed the former and sim-bin sims work in that situation.  However, if you are using the latter technique, sim-bin sims will not work; you will definitely want a stealth subhood for that to work.

Yes, I'm using the latter method, or let's say, I'm trying to. Looks like I have to go with the stealth subhoods, then.

Here's my best guess as to how to create a stealth neighborhood (note that this isn't tested at all):
1) Create your neighborhood
2) Extract the IDNO record from an existing stealth neighborhood and replace your IDNO with that one.
3) Modify the UID and (parent) name in the IDNO.  The UID should be unique and the (parent) name should match your neighborhood folder name.
4) Move your neighborhood into C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\The Sims 2 <EP>\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate for any EP from Pets on.

It doesn't matter if this method isn't tested yet, I'll try and see if it works.

I'm not sure whether it happens for all EPs, but I've seen a lot of people who have "lost" neighborhoods that they restored from backup.  This happened because the IDNO was not changed when they copied the neighborhood in, and it conflicted with an existing neighborhood.  When I had them remove the conflicting neighborhoods, their restored neighborhood "magically" appeared again:
http://www.modthesims.info/showthread.php?t=180053

I've never had problems with "lost" restored neighborhoods, because after replacing an Nxxx folder, I've always deleted the neighborhoodmanager.package, too. It gets regenerated when the game is started, and all neighborhoods are there as expected. Don't ask me, why it works, but it does.

[Mootilda]

Here's my best guess as to how to create a stealth neighborhood (note that this isn't tested at all):
1) Create your neighborhood
2) Extract the IDNO record from an existing stealth neighborhood and replace your IDNO with that one.
3) Modify the UID and (parent) name in the IDNO.  The UID should be unique and the (parent) name should match your neighborhood folder name.
4) Move your neighborhood into C:\Program Files\EA GAMES\The Sims 2 <EP>\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate for any EP from Pets on.

Verified that this technique works.  I used the IDNO from the Pets stealth subhood, with a new UID and (parent) name, and the sim-bin sims appeared in my neighborhood.

Just be careful not to change the Neighborhood Type in the Plugin View, since SimPE has a bug which will add extra characters into the record, corrupting it.  If you want to change the Neighborhood Type, you'll need to make the change in the Hex View.

I also verified that the subhood was added to my neighborhood when I entered it, rather than when the neighborhood was created.

[sloppyhousewife]

It's working! Thanks so much for all the help! *happydance*

I did it a little bit different, though:

I made a Pets stealth subhood using an empty P001 template as base.

1) Create your neighborhood
2) Extract the IDNO from the Pets subhood template and replace your IDNO with that one
3) Don't change anything in the IDNO record*
4) Rename all character files and the NH file from Nxxx_[whatever].package to P001_[whatever].package**
5) Go to ...\The Sims 2 Pets\TSData\Res\NeighborhoodTemplate\P001, replace the P001_Neighborhood.package and move/copy your character files to the P001\Characters folder

*The values are adjusted accordingly when a new NH is created. The template (parent) name is P001, the UID 4; in my test NH, the newly generated subhood's (parent) name is N001, the UID 2.

**I didn't try with lots, but I guess it's the same procedure.

Fun fact: I called my neighborhood "Playable Townies". Now, while the new neighborhood is generated, I get the message "Creating Playable Townies" instead of "Creating Pets" .

[Mootilda]

3) Don't change anything in the IDNO record*
*The values are adjusted accordingly when a new NH is created. The template (parent) name is P001, the UID 4; in my test NH, the newly generated subhood's (parent) name is N001, the UID 2.

When a subhood is added to a neighborhood, the game will move the subhood's (parent) name to the subname field and replace the (parent) name with the name of the primary neighborhood.  The UID is adjusted to be unique for the current set of neighborhoods and subhoods.

It's this process which SimPE attempts (and fails) to mimic when you change the Neighborhood Type.  Instead of moving the (parent) name to the subname field, it adds a 4-character long string into the record, but sets the length of the string to 0, thus corrupting the remainder of the record.

Problems occur if the UID and (parent) name of a subhood template match an existing neighborhood or subhood.  The game will confuse the two folders and will actually change your template to try to keep it in sync with your playable hood.

Since you decided to replace the Pets stealth subhood, you already had a unique UID and (parent) name.  However, your method is very specific and replaces an existing subhood; mine is more general and allows people to maintain the existing subhoods.  Otherwise, they're the same basic procedure.

4) Rename all character files and the NH file from Nxxx_[whatever].package to P001_[whatever].package**
**I didn't try with lots, but I guess it's the same procedure.

This is the standard procedure for renaming a neighborhood or subhood folder.  You need to do it for all files in the folder, including all characters and lots.

[sloppyhousewife]

However, your method is very specific and replaces an existing subhood;

Yes, that was my intension. I should add that I play with empty templates (except for the one with my 16 townies/now playables). The method is definitively *not* recommended for people who want to keep the kazillion sims forced on them by the original 'hood templates though.

4) Rename all character files and the NH file from Nxxx_[whatever].package to P001_[whatever].package**
**I didn't try with lots, but I guess it's the same procedure.

This is the standard procedure for renaming a neighborhood or subhood folder.  You need to do it for all files in the folder, including all characters and lots.

I know. I was wondering if you could handle the lots like you could the character files, that's all. Actually, my footnote was a brainfart . Forget about the lots - the P001 template doesn't even *have* a Lot folder.